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President Obama to Address Security Failures; Interview With California Congressman Dan Lungren

Aired January 07, 2010 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Boy, and we have got some video I'm going to be sharing with you all that is going to be, well, somewhat surprising, but I guess we can understand now that this is the kind of stuff that happens.

And all of us as Americans are going to take a real good look at this and ask the same questions that the president of the United States will hopefully answer about an hour-and-a-half from now.

I have got to tell you, I am surprised as you are. I expected the president was going to be speaking at 3:02. It is now 3:01. And we have just learned from the White House that he's going to be pushing back that speech. So, you are going to be going through this with us.

Here is the first thing I want to tell you about. We have assembled a panel of folks who are going to be taking us through this. Let me tell you who we have got on board, by the way, before I show you this video. And hang tight, because this video is worth watching.

Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee is going to be joining us. She is going to be taking us through what the reaction is from the Democratic side and just how much heat she thinks this president should take. Also, Dan Lungren, Republican from California, the Sacramento region, great city, by the way, is going to be joining us.

Now let me take you through our own cast of characters here. Ed Henry, our CNN White House correspondent, as you know, is going to be joining us with his take on his. Chris Lawrence from the Pentagon is going to be joining us as well to take us through what is going on, on the military side. Jill Dougherty is our State Department -- CNN's foreign affairs correspondent. There she is. We also are going to have Jeanne Meserve, Gloria Borger, Fran Townsend, Clark Kent Ervin, who you heard moments ago in a discussion with Kyra. David Gergen is going to be joining us as well.

So, we have got a full panel. We're going to be talking about what the president will be saying and announcing on this day, which is going to be of high import for all Americans.

And of course we have also have you and we have all the folks who are newsworthy on Twitter who's going to be sending messages throughout the day.

Before we get to anything else, here is what I want to do. I want to show you some video now that everyone is going to be talking about, I guarantee it. Here we go.

Remember that brouhaha at Newark Airport in New Jersey where they had to essentially freeze the airport for about an hour-and-a-half? Folks were stuck. They didn't know what to do. Now, watch this video. We are going to be able to see on this video for the very first time a gentleman who crosses that border.

Now, as you look at this picture, right, folks, you at home and my guests who are probably watching it as well, the folks you see walking out are people who are exiting. They are exiting the terminal, leaving the airport. And, as you know, you are not allowed to cross that cord on the other side.

Now, unfortunately, you can't see here. Hey, can we lose all that stuff? I don't think we are helping this video by putting all those things up there. Thank you. That is better.

All right. Now, you see the desk there? There is a desk just on the left there. It's unmanned. There is supposed to be a TSA guard there, but for some reason he was either taking a break or something. And we just saw a woman in a white coat come up. She comes up. A man goes on the left side of that barricade or that rope line. He goes under rope line and then walks into the airport, an obvious no-no.

See if we can back that up so we can see that one more time. Let's see if we can -- Hey, Rog, yes, let's back that up. I missed it. I don't know who put all that black stuff on there, but I don't know what the heck that was. So, let's look at it again and this time and try and confuse our audience a little less.

All right, you're going to see the guy walks up on the left, OK? Stay with me here, folks. This is what caused that whole thing at Newark. We have been waiting see what actually happened. We're finally getting a chance to see what actually happened.

And our correspondent Susan Candiotti is going to be joining us in a moment. She was part of being able to get this. OK. See the TSA guy right there? The guy in the blue shirt, he walks away, so there is no one at that post, it appears. A woman is going to walk up on the left now. And then there is going to be a man who comes up to greet her. He is walking toward us. All right? He is going to be walking toward us.

There is the woman in the white coat. Now, you see that man right there, the guy in like the cream-colored coat? Now, watch. He goes under -- he just went under that rope. Now he joins up with her. And now he is walking toward us. Well, he just made an illegal entry into an airport, and there was no one there from TSA to stop him or figure out who he was.

Let's get some more information before we do anything else on this.

Susan Candiotti has been working the story.

Susan, after that, after he walked in, what happened? Who is this guy? Where did he go?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he went somewhere else in the terminal. And then we discovered that in about 18 minutes after that, he leaves the airport using one of the normal exits. So, he is gone in 18 minutes, but the turmoil he caused, either unintentionally or intentionally, we don't know, caused hours and hours and hours and hours worth of turmoil.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: I am just looking at this and I am thinking, why isn't there a TSA guy at that desk right there who is supposed to keep people from going under that, right?

(CROSSTALK)

CANDIOTTI: Let me take you back right now. If we can bring it back to the beginning again, we tried to isolate with those shadows. It may or may not help you. But let me take it back now.

SANCHEZ: All right.

CANDIOTTI: If we can re-rack it here, you see the man. Well, now we're a little farther on. OK. We are re-racking it. We will come back to it in a minute.

This happened at about 5:30 or so on Sunday night. OK. You see him standing over there. The security guard gets up, the TSA officer, goes up, and they talk for just a moment. They talk with each other, the man and the TSA officer. Then the TSA officer, you see, is making his way back to the security checkpoint.

He is going to saunter on back, and the man goes back to waiting over there.

SANCHEZ: That's the guy right there in the cream-colored jacket?

CANDIOTTI: That is correct. He's beyond that.

SANCHEZ: Right.

CANDIOTTI: Now, about three-and-a-half minutes goes by. Now, that is a passage of time. Now the security officer is leaving his post. According to an official, that's because someone distracted him by asking him a question and he leaves his post.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Here comes the guy.

CANDIOTTI: That's right. Now you see him in the light-colored jacket move toward. He sees that it is empty. There is the woman wearing the light-colored jacket. The man comes around to say hello to her. There he is. He gives her a hug and a kiss, and now they are going to walk off screen into a secure area of the airport. So, this man is entering through an exit checkpoint. And that is a breach of security.

SANCHEZ: And that is what started the brouhaha there?

CANDIOTTI: Yes, that is right. And then he disappears off the face of the earth. And it is not until a passenger -- once again, a passenger saves the day -- brings it to the attention of the TSA, hey, someone just went past the security checkpoint.

But instead of immediately sounding the alarm, the TSA said, we take full responsibility for this, but we did not sound the alarm at that time, we did not alert the Port Authority police. We first wanted to confirm that there had been a breach, because it was a passenger that told us.

So, they went to look at the videotape, roll back the videotape. That is when they found out that the camera wasn't recording. That's what caused them -- now they are losing time. Now they had to scramble. They went to Continental Airlines, because Continental has a redundant camera operating, but they had to find the person in charge, get to the person, get into where that tape is held, find it.

And by that time, about 80 -- about an hour-and-a-half went by. That is when the Port Authority was alerted and that is when they...

(CROSSTALK)

CANDIOTTI: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Just to be clear, we still don't know who the hell this guy even is.

CANDIOTTI: We don't know who he is. We don't know whether he did it accidentally or intentionally. Senator Frank Lautenberg from New Jersey is the one who is responsible for -- he asked to see the tape from Continental Airlines. They let him do it. That videotape, he asked that it be released. The TSA approved it.

And the TSA through rather the -- Frank Lautenberg's office released that videotape to the news media in hopes of something recognizing this man, so that authorities can talk to him, find out why he did what he did, what caused it, was it intentional, or unintentional, and then they will consider whether he could face charges, either civil or criminal, on the federal end.

SANCHEZ: Well, it is another fly in the ointment. It's another question for Congress. It's another question for the president of the United States on top of what happened on Christmas.

This is what I want to ask our panel.

Hey, Susan Candiotti, great job with that. Thanks for getting us that video. We are going to show it again throughout this newscast, because I'm sure there are some folks who are just getting now home from work. We are also going to be getting some tabs on the Rick's List and talking to some key players, who hopefully are going to be able to share some information with us on this, hopefully some key players having to do with national security.

If they are out there and they're talking and they're tweeting, I am going to have them on my list, and I'm going to share what they are saying with you. And if they are really newsworthy, we are going to try and hook up with them and get them to join us here by beeper, as we call it, or by phone, so you can hear what they have to say.

I want to know what Sheila Jackson Lee has to say about this video, after she just watched it with us. I'm going to want to know what Dan Lungren has to say about this. I'm going to want to know what Clark Kent Ervin has to say about this and our members of the CNN analysis team as well.

Stay right there. We're going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: It's funny. We were just talking moments ago about all the mess that has been taking place at some of the nation's airports having to do more with counterterrorism and terrorism or potential terrorism, and just today, as we speak, it seems like every big city in the country is being blanketed with snow. This is one of the biggest snowfalls we have had for a long time.

And, as you might imagine, it is causing severe problems. Let's start with down South. This is Atlanta, Georgia, folks. And guess what is happening right now in Atlanta, Georgia? You are looking live at snow falling in Atlanta, Georgia. I know. Those of you in Minneapolis and Sioux Falls and New York are going, ha, so what? We get this all the time.

Look, in Atlanta, it is not every day it snows. Guess what? It is going to snow in Alabama today, according to some of the prognosticators.

(WEATHER UPDATE)

SANCHEZ: I will tell you, it all depends. Everything is local, folks, including politics and weather. It all depends on where you live. If you live in Atlanta or parts of northern Alabama, this is a big-deal day for you.

Speaking of big deals, let me bring in somebody who is a big deal. He's Dan Lungren. He's a congressman representing the great state of California. He's from the region of Sacramento. He knows a lot about counterterrorism, has been certainly talking and thinking about it an awful lot.

Let me ask you a question. We just showed that video. I don't know if you got a chance to see it, the one that was in Newark, where it appeared -- and I'm not trying cast aspersions here -- it appeared from what we looked at the video that one of those TSA guys walked away from his station, and then that guy walked in toward the airport. It created a huge mess.

Looking at that, what is your take, sir? REP. DAN LUNGREN (R), CALIFORNIA: Well, obviously, if someone missed their assignment, left their post, there ought to be repercussions for that.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Is this becoming a problem, though?

LUNGREN: Well, I don't think it's overall a problem with TSA. Overall, those folks do a pretty good job.

What we have to look at, after this Detroit situation, is whether we have the sense of urgency in this country from the top all the way to the bottom about responding to this threat of terror. One of the things I recalled was, as we left just a couple of days before December, and we met as all Republicans did and as all Democrats did in their meetings, we were talking about health care, we were talking about jobs.

And I finally raised the issue of terrorism and what were we doing. Were we forgetting about the urgency of that matter? Just to give you an example, we have the Patriot Act, which has three provisions that have to be reenacted or they sunset. They would have sunsetted at the end of the year, but we managed to at least get a two-month extension.

The lack of seriousness in this Congress and the administration combined in terms of recognizing the battle we are in is something that has bothered me for a great deal of time.

SANCHEZ: Well, how serious should -- let me ask you this. In fact, I'm going to ask this of members of our panel. I know we have got to sneak a break in. Let me sneak a break in.

But let me pose this question, all right? The guy at the center of the storm right now is a fellow name Michael Leiter. Michael Leiter is a national counterterrorism director. Should he be fired? Should Michael Leiter -- should the president of the United States fire Michael Leiter?

I mean, let's not pull punches here. Let me just ask the question directly, and you guys tell me what you think, especially you, Congressman. And, hopefully I will get an opinion on this from Sheila Jackson Lee as well.

Stay right there. I'm going to be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Boy, I am just now getting some horrible information that I want to share with you.

Welcome back, by the way. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.

I have got a memo I'm going to read to you. It is five people are dead, confirmed so by CNN. I don't know how many of you know this area. It is called Harmony Township. The paramedics have confirmed to CNN five people are dead, seven are injured, and they are all special-needs kids apparently on a school bus.

They had some kind of crash with a tanker. Have we got a map up now? Thanks, guys. It is not far from Dayton, Ohio, it looks like. Let me tell you again where this is, Harmony Township.

Let me go through some of the internal notes here from our editor. Some of the folks back there behind me who are now making calls, we have got a whole row of people making calls and trying to get to the facility's folks there.

It says that we are on the phone trying to get further details, but let me read you again, five people in a special-needs school bus are dead, killed. Seven others have been injured. This is a tanker truck crash in Ohio today. This is according to a paramedic, Tom Freeman (ph), who treated some of the injured. Boy, this just sounds horrible.

The crash happened around just about 1:00 on I-70 eastbound near state road 40. Good gosh, five people dead. You know, you hear something like this, and, obviously, you can't help but wonder what that scene must be like, and you feel terrible for the people who may be involved in this. We don't know what other elements of this story -- you know what we will do? We will reach out to the folks there.

Hey, let's see if we can reach either via Twitter or via landline or phone to some of the folks there and see if we can get them on the phone. If we get them on the phone, let's see if we can turn around some information, just to see what the scene is, what is going on there, who these kids, where they came from, and, hopefully together, us here at CNN and you, who are probably curious about what is going on, will be able to get to the bottom of this. Wow. God bless them.

Let's get back to the main story we are following now.

The president of the United States was going to give a speech about 20 minutes ago. Now he has pushed it back about another hour. We're going to be covering it live here. Apparently, for the first time, the president is going to be talking about what really happened. Where was the breakdown? Was it a total breakdown?

And I asked this question just a little while ago. It seems like a lot of heat is being directed at a guy named Michael Leiter. Do you know Michael Leiter? He is our nation's national counterterrorism director, not a big name as per se, but he is at the center of the storm about these intelligence failures.

And I am just wondering out loud here. Let me introduce my panel once again. Let me start with Ed Henry. He is our White House correspondent. Chris Lawrence, he is our Pentagon correspondent. Jill Dougherty, she's at the State Department. She is our CNN foreign affairs correspondent. In bureau, we have got Jeanne Meserve. We have got Gloria Borger. We have got Fran Townsend, Clark Kent Ervin, and David Gergen. My thanks to all of you.

Clark Kent Ervin, let me ask this question before I go back to the congressman. You were in the government. You have seen screw- ups. You've seen how they are handled. This guy Michael Leiter, should he be fired?

CLARK KENT ERVIN, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: You know, Rick, I know Mike Leiter. He is a very, very smart guy. He's incredible hardworking. He lives and breathes intelligence.

My own sense, based on what I know now, is that Mike, himself, is not responsible for this. That said, the whole purpose of creating the National Counterterrorism Center is to connect the dots. And as the president himself has said, that is what did not happen here.

So, I must say, I would be surprised if ultimately, and sooner rather than later, somebody within NCTC does not lose his job. I would not suggest, though, that they be Mike, and I would be surprised if it were he.

SANCHEZ: Well, let's just talk brass tacks here, man. Let's talk about what really happened here. The president called it a systemic failure. You had Yemen. Let's go through this as concretely as we can, because this stuff has a tendency to get real confusing for our viewers. So, let's make it real concrete for all of us, right?

Yemen tells our intelligence that leaders of a branch of al Qaeda were talking about a -- quote -- "Nigerian" being prepared for a terrorist attack. So, we know that. Our government's intel knows that there is a thing out there called a Nigerian, according to intel, and he wants to blow up a plane.

At the same time, we have got this man named Abdulmutallab, whose son is also Abdulmutallab, who goes to our embassy and says my son has been talking about blowing up a plane.

You have got those two pieces of information, right? People at home who are not -- who don't have doctor's degrees in intelligence are thinking, boy, I wonder if anybody in our government ever put those two pieces of information together.

Gloria, it sounds like nobody did that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. Right. It does.

And I think that the problem is these days that we collect a lot more dots, but we are not really good at connecting those dots. And, on Sunday, John Brennan, who reports directly to the president on counterterrorism, told us on CNN that that there was no smoking gun.

When you look at the fact that this father went to the embassy and said, wait a minute, I'm nervous about my son and what he might be doing, even Tom Kean, the former chair of the 9/11 Commission, said that should have set off every siren and every red flag should have been attached to that piece of intelligence. And it wasn't.

SANCHEZ: Let me go back to Jill Dougherty on this.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Hey, Jill, the information that I just shared with our viewers, two officials say the government had intelligence from Yemen before Friday that leaders of a branch of al Qaeda were talking about -- quote -- "a Nigerian" being prepared for a terrorist attack. I'm reading that from a "New York Times" report. Is there any reason to doubt that information?

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: That is correct, but the second thing you said, Rick, is not correct, when you said what the father relayed to the officials in the embassy in Africa. That is not correct.

The father came in, and from what we have been hearing right in this building, they said the father comes into the embassy and he says, look, I am really concerned about my son. Number one, we don't know where he is. Number two, we think he is under the influence of religious extremists. We also think that he has gone to Yemen. He is under the influence of religious extremists in Yemen, but he did not say my son is planning on blowing up a plane.

SANCHEZ: I stand corrected on that.

DOUGHERTY: And that is really important, because that...

SANCHEZ: Yes.

DOUGHERTY: Well, it is important, because then that's a crucial bit of information. That goes into what is called the Visas Viper cables we have been reporting about, all that information. The father gave the son's name, rank and serial number. He said date of birth. This is his passport number.

He did not apparently know that he had a visa. And, crucially, that information, whether or not the son had a visa, did not go into the cable. And this is, Rick, one of the big debates right now. Why didn't it?

Well, as far as we can tell from what they say here, you didn't have to put it in those cables, according to the regulations in place then. Now you have to.

SANCHEZ: That is important, and I am glad you cleared that up for us. The report I had read seemed to indicate that he had made some comments about perhaps thinking his son would do this, but I am glad you were able to clear that up.

Let me go back to the congressman.

DOUGHERTY: Yes.

SANCHEZ: Dan Lungren, you still with us? LUNGREN: (AUDIO GAP) ... on what you said?

SANCHEZ: Listen, given what you know and given what we have heard and given what we have talked about regarding Michael Leiter and his responsibility in counterterrorism, do you believe he should be fired?

LUNGREN: I don't think we have enough information about that yet.

I will tell you who I am most upset about is the spokesman for the White House who said there was no smoking gun, as if that is an excuse. The fact of the matter is there usually is not a smoking gun. That's why you have to connect the dots. It is almost as if we are approaching this as if it were a criminal justice issue.

This is not a criminal justice issue. In the aftermath of this terrible event, what did we do? We immediately made it a criminal justice issue, as opposed to a wartime issue.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Just like President Bush did with the shoe bomber, by the way.

LUNGREN: Well, look, I'm not talking about President Bush or the shoe bomber. I'm talking about what we know now and where we are now in trying to defend this country.

The fact of the matter is, this guy is now lawyered up. We don't know what information we could have gotten from him.

SANCHEZ: Well, that is an interesting question. You're saying that we treat them differently if it is suspected terrorism in the case.

Stay right there. Let's take a break.

I want to bring this up with our panel, because this is something a lot of Americans are tussling with as well. And I'm dying to ask that same question of Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, who I'm sure is going to have a lot to say. She's going to be joining us.

And, if you haven't seen it, we have got this video from Newark I want to show you. Stay there. You will be able to see it here for the very first time.

There is the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee. She will be joining us in just a little bit.

We will be back after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez, checking a lot information both on the tweets and waiting for president to speak and following several developing stories.

First of all, the story that is as sad as any. This is coming in from an area around Dayton, Ohio. Let me get back to this if we can. See if we can put the map up. Let me tell you again what is going on here. Let me find it once again -- oh, wait, we have our first pictures coming in.

This is a tanker truck that apparently has collided with a special needs bus. We imagine they were children, special needs children, not positive about that.

This is video, and we are rolling this raw. In other words, as we're getting it, we're showing it. So, go back to the video if we possibly can, and we will show you what it looks like. You know, we are going to go through this together.

Five people dead, seven hurt. You can imagine a tanker truck crashes into a special needs bus. I mean, this is a horrible scene, a horrible situation. This is probably -- this is likely aftermath video that we are getting now from WDTN, one of our affiliates in the area. We thank them for this.

Hopefully, we will be able to hear from one of the officials there. It sounds like one of those troopers there was about to give a statement, and if we are able to rack that back, maybe we'll be able to share that with you.

And by the way, folks all over the country are sending us tweets warning their fellow citizens to be real careful today. Check this tweet we got a little while ago. This is, by the way, from somebody from Dayton. They say there is snow in the area that's creating a mess. Be careful if you have to go anywhere tonight around the Dayton area, because the roads are a mess. Be safe.

We showed you a while ago, it's snowing in Atlanta, right now, Atlanta. It's snowing in parts of Alabama right now. So, there is a lot of snow out there. There is the picture of Atlanta where the first flurries are falling now, they were expected. And the folks in Atlanta, and my kids are excited about this.

But the bottom line is that the snow eventually turns to ice and it gets slick, and people on roads have accidents, and that is the bottom line is that we need to be careful when driving out there, and that is the warning we're getting from a lot of folks on tweets.

Sheila Jackson Lee is with us once again, as is the panel. Let me bring her in. Congresswoman, thanks for being with us, appreciate your time.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE, (D) TEXAS: Thank you, Rick. What a terrible tragedy, and we all have our hearts going out to that community.

SANCHEZ: That's terrible, you're absolutely right. We will be following it and hopefully we'll be able to talk to one of the officials there. What do you make of this situation the president has his hands on now and all of the questions and all the finger pointing that's going on? Both from the Democrats and the Republicans, I should add.

LEE: Well, as you know, Rick, I have served on the Homeland Security Committee as the tragedy of 9/11 unfolded and we began the select committee on Homeland Security. And I have seen this, and I take this to heart.

And I think that what we see here -- my good friend has mentioned the word sense of urgency, but we have a comfort level, because we have not had a terrorist act on our soil.

So what I would say is there is no need for panic, but there is need for preparedness. And we have a real problem with preparedness and not connecting the dots.

I want to give you a new terminology -- "red flags." And if we need legislative fixes for people to understand what a red flag is, such as a parent coming and telling you of the lost whereabouts of their son and the potential that the son has gone to Yemen.

And in my viewpoint, if they go to that issue to the Newark issue, that person should have immediately been moved to the no-fly list as simple as that, no questions asked.

SANCHEZ: And the father is a Nigerian, and you have an intel report out there that Jill Dougherty just confirmed that the in fact the Yemenis are saying that there is a Nigerian out there who might want to be blowing up a plane.

LEE: That's the point. This whole question of connecting the doubts, and the 9/11 commission, and you had the former chairman on some time ago -- but the 9/11 commission talked about stove piping intelligence.

We thought we broke that cycle and you were supposed to coordinate the intelligence so that one person, one agency, one floor the next building would know what was transpiring.

We still have a stovepipe mentality, but there needs to be added the red flag understanding that if something pops up, and there is something about there is a lot of noise in the system, and I understand that, the intelligence system, but this was a red flag.

Secondarily, we have to understand that we no longer see terrorism in mass numbers. Terrorism has been franchised and I have said it over and over again. It could be a lone grandmother. It could be this young man coming from a wealthy family, and who knows what it will be the next time? We have to be sensitive to that.

SANCHEZ: What do you want the president to say tonight? If you were writing his speech, Representative Sheila Jackson Lee, what would you make sure that he says that people would understand that he has a firm grip on this thing? LEE: Well, first of all, I have an inkling that even though some of us have said that heads should roll, not without getting all of the information. The president, unlike maybe some other administrations, is going to take full responsibility. And he is raising the level of security or concern to a red flag.

So the first thing I'd like for him to do is to suggest that we should not panic, but be prepared. And we should raise the sense of urgency to the red flag color, and that we should begin to understand one more enhanced professional training for our TSOs -- that is the our transportation security officers, more U.S. air marshals, and less nickel and diming on the funding of security.

SANCHEZ: It's sounds like you're talking about ramping it up. David Gergen, you have advised five different presidents. Does that sound like good advice from Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee?

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, it is very solid as far as it goes. I think Congresswoman Lee would also agree that you have to go to the source. You have got to stop the terrorists in Yemen from recruiting and then radicalizing these young people and sending them out, you know, as human missiles.

SANCHEZ: But how do you do that? Do you do it with an Iraq- style or Afghanistan-style model, or something else?

GERGEN: Well, it's very clear we don't want to put any more troops on the ground if we can help it anywhere. We do have a whack- a-mole problem as we talked about the other day, that you get terrorists, we go after them in Afghanistan and they pop in Pakistan. We go after them in Iraq and they pop up in Yemen. And if we go after them in Yemen, they will pop up in Somalia.

So we have that issue, but it seems to me the critical first issue is, as a military strategy, to get terrorism under better control and to stop the recruiting and radicalization of these young people, because there could be an endless supply to try to penetrate our system all of the time.

SANCHEZ: But, Chris Lawrence, a that a military role or is that an intel role that usually does not need or will not require boots on the ground? I'm talking about Yemen.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's certainly not a role that the military could play by itself in terms of stopping Al Qaeda or any other terrorist group from recruiting individuals.

I think a bigger issue, too, as we look at this, is that you look at the prisoners left in Guantanamo Bay, about half of them are from Yemen. And when you look at the recidivism rates, and that means the percentage of prisoners we let out of Guantanamo that in some way, shape, or form go back to militancy, you know, this time around last year...

SANCHEZ: But, wait, let's do the numbers. How many are there? How many folks back in Yemen? Isn't something like 400? Something like 400, isn't it? I don't think it is that much more than that, is it? I am not sure.

LAWRENCE: No. It can't be. They have only had about 500, 550 total. So it can't be that high.

SANCHEZ: Well, let's suppose it's a couple of hundred that apparently have made their way back to Yemen that could be suspected terrorists. It is a country that has 23 million people living there. The question is, do you use military, do you use a World War II style attack on a country because there are militants who could be tied to Al Qaeda?

Gloria Borger, let me go back to you on that.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I just wanted to say, Rick, that I have just heard from somebody over at the agency, the CIA, says wants to make it very clear that Abdulmutallab's father did not say anything about terrorism or even Al Qaeda or aviation when he went to the embassy.

What he essentially did was say, "My son is missing," which they get all of these kind of reports all of time. "My son has fallen under the influence of some Islamic extremist in Yemen."

They say, that, you know, this is nothing, and they say that this information was shared within the government, and that these, quote, "missing kids" reports happen all of the time, and there was no information at that point connecting him to terrorism. And some folks will say...

SANCHEZ: Well, but it almost sounds like they are walking that back some, doesn't it? I mean, they...

BORGER: No, this is exactly the information they received. Now some people like Tom Kaine of the 9/11 Commission says that, sorry, because the father was this wealthy Nigerian banker well known to the embassy, maybe we should have taken it more seriously and connected the dots to Yemen.

But I'm just telling you from the agency's point of view, it is a kind of routine thing they get all of the time -- my kid is missing, he might be in Yemen, can you please help me find him?

SANCHEZ: How routine is this, Tom Fuentes? I will come to you in just a moment. I'm going to sneak a break in. Tom Fuentes, assistant -- former assistant director, FBI. Are they walking this back? Are they making it seem less than it was? I am not sure. It seems important. You tell me, you are the expert, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We have breaking news that we want to follow for you now. It is a sad story we have been telling you about. It is taking place near Dayton, Ohio, and these are the first pictures coming in from the scene.

If you can imagine this, a tanker truck has collided with a bus that was carrying special needs students. According to original reports, five people confirmed dead by paramedics on the scene, and seven people have been hurt. I mean, it is tragedy on top of tragedy here given what is going on with the weather situation.

That is why folks all over the country are being told, if you don't have to be on the roads -- Chad, let me bring you in on this, and you can say this with more cred than I can, you are a weather guy. Good idea for people to be out on the roads tonight in certain places, or shouldn't the they stay home?

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: Once again, I want to set up this whole argument up with what the father of Abdulmutallab did or didn't tell and whether that should have been connected with that information that apparently intel had that there was a, quote, "Nigerian," stop quote, who is going to be attacking or planning some kind of attack.

And now there is a big question as to how much of that information should have been put together.

I want to take it up with Gloria Borger and with Tom Fuentes, but before I do that, since we're real close to the president speaking now, let me go back to the White House correspondent, who has diligently been wanting to file his report on this, Ed Henry.

Ed, what have you heard, what are your sources telling you is the purpose of this president's speech tonight? What will we come away when we're done listening to the president?

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good question. Basically a top aide to the president told me the president wants to lay out all of the mistakes that happened, warts and all, and basically say "I take full responsibility for this."

He's heard the complaints from people, he's heard, you know, apprehension out there about how safe and secure our aviation system and other systems really are. And he wants to lay out, here's everything from top to bottom, what you have been talking about, what the CIA knew and didn't know, what the State Department knew and didn't know about the visa issue that Jill was talking about.

Lay it all out, and keep in mind, we will get the unclassified version. There is going to be another report that is classified because there is still some very sensitive information here and we obviously don't want Al Qaeda or others to glean more information that they could use to try to launch further attacks.

But I think more than anything, the president wants to say I am going to accountable here and I am going to lay it out to the American people.

One of the challenges he'll face, though, is you will remember last week when he was in Hawaii and he said he was going to have accountability at all levels of government and there was systemic and also human failures. We have heard about the systemic failures, about the watch lists that are not working and the aviation system that needs to be beefed up, the information sharing that Gloria was talking about, et cetera, but we haven't a lot ant the human failings. Where are they? Which agency is going to step up and say, we screwed up? We haven't heard that yet, Rick.

SANCHEZ: I'm just thinking out loud here, Gloria. I want to bring you back, you and Tom back into this. I'm thinking out loud and reading some of the memos from some our own guys here at CNN, most prominently Rick Davis, who is one of the bigger thinkers here.

And he poses this question, which I think is interesting, because you said, well, you know, Rick, they are telling me it is common for people to report that their kids are missing. What is common about a guy in Nigeria going to the U.S. embassy reporting his kids are missing? Wouldn't he go to the police?

Doesn't that in and of itself make you think, wait a minute, a guy is going to the U.S. embassy to report his kid is missing. That in and of itself makes you want to include a tie, right?

BORGER: Well, I can only tell you what my source told me, and that is he wanted -- and don't forget, this is a prominent Nigerian banker, who wanted the United States government's help in finding his son.

SANCHEZ: Well, Tom Fuentes, are they walking this back somewhat? I mean the original reports were a little different. You know, and now it is sounding like they are telling Gloria, look, it was just a guy who walked in and said his son was missing. I am just thinking out loud, are they walking this thing back?

TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't know, Rick, if I would call it walking it back. I would just say that as the specifics are revealed in this, it really matters. To get on a list is a very serious matter to go from a watch list eventually to the no-fly list.

So when you talk about the systemic failures, we mean systems. Systems have been put in place in the previous administration and carried on in this administration, and systems mean a decision by the White House and a decision by Congress of who gets on a list and what it takes to be put on the list. So that is systemic failure if it weren't...

BORGER: And we may find out, Rick, that the system is overly stringent in terms of who gets to be on a watch list, that in the end, what may come out of this is we broaden that and say these people ought to also be on a watch list and also ought to be on a no-fly list, because we tend to limit it more than broaden it.

SANCHEZ: OK. Let's go back to David Gergen, and I am still curious about this whole idea that some guy in some country would go to the U.S. embassy and say "help me find my son." It doesn't seem like that is the U.S. embassy's role. That in and of itself should have been a giant red flag as Sheila Jackson Lee just told us. GERGEN: Look, Rick, I think you're right that they've walked it back here a little bit. What they told Gloria sounds to me as classic CYA, which I understand. And I happen to be a big believer in the importance of the CIA and Leon Panetta's leadership.

But I think what we have been reporting -- what has been reported by the government itself was that it was harder than that, and he was -- he was saying I have a son who had been -- who is under radical Islamic influence. And he is in Yemen.

And if you put that together with the other report that they had, that there is a Nigerian in Yemen who wants to undertake terror against the United States, putting those two things together was the critical question here, and that didn't happen.

Now, I don't know why it didn't happen. That's why I think we want the president's report. What I was told yesterday was that they simply -- there was no one assigned to bring those two pieces of information together. Why does that happen? I don't think we know.

I will tell you this, that Michael Chertoff has argued to me when he came into CNN studios that the kind of information that came in was not something of a garden variety that you get ten times a day from around the world, that the pieces of information that came in were sufficiently red flagged or significant, that they were kinds of things that happen a few times a month.

So there is an average of information that comes into the system. But this kind of specificity with these kinds of danger marks on it, I think, according to Michael Chertoff is rare than just sort of like we had tons of these all the time.

SANCHEZ: Gloria Borger is chomping at the bit to get in. I know that look.

BORGER: I think we may also discover, you know, I think we may also discover that there was a lack of information about Al Qaeda in Yemen. In particular, you know the guy comes in and says my son might be in Yemen. That could have raised a red flag if the dots had been connected and we knew that Al Qaeda and Yemen was planning an attack.

And I think this is where -- this is where the problem is. I do think that, you know, no agency wants to lay the blame at their feet, as David, you know, said. You know, I do believe that the agency would say, oh, he was not linked to terrorism so far as they knew. Well, why not? I think it is legitimate to ask those questions.

SANCHEZ: Let's stop right there because we have to get a break in. David, I will get you back as soon as we get back. We will get Tom Fuentes back in. We ended up kind of shifting the conversation as we went to him, and I know he has something important to say as well.

We will also catch you up on the big weather story across the country and this horrible, horrible situation that we're getting information on. I'm checking on tweets and Rick's list and officials in Washington as well. By the way, five people dead, seven people injured. We'll bring you the latest on that. There's the tweet list.

Stay with us, man. There's a lot going on, and we are all here to cover it for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.

I want to go through a couple of pictures. It's snowing it seems all over the country. I want to show you those -- this is from DIV, in Detroit. You know they are used to getting a lot of snow. There's the picture of somebody trying to drive in this stuff.

You can always tell when the roads will be tricky because you see snow on the side and then you can tell just before stuff congeals and it actually becomes ice. That's a snowplow that's taking those pictures right now, trying to create those banks that they are so famous in the Midwest.

Let's go to Kansas City. You will see some new pictures as well. That's what it looks like. Oh, lord. Look at the car right there in the middle. He's stuck. These are live pictures coming in to us now. That's what the roads will be like. Good day to stay there,

Imagine this, OK. Let me try and quantify this for you, folks -- ten inches in Chicago, two inches in Atlanta. Anywhere you live between Chicago and Atlanta, do the math. Somewhere between three and, I guess, something like nine. That's right.

Either way, it is not matter of inches. It is a matter of fact that it will be very tricky to drive out there today because of all the precipitation, the frozen precipitation that is falling. I can't believe I just said that. Chad will get me.

Ruben Navarrette is joining us now. Few people have covered or know more about Janet Napolitano than Ruben Navarrette does, has written about her for years. And he's good enough to join us now. And, look, how much trouble is she in, Ruben?

RUBEN NAVARRETTE, COLUMNIST, "SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE": Rick, you know, I hear what you hear and this drumbeat about her resigning. I'm not sure if it happens or not, but she clearly has a confidence problem. She's never going to be able walk back to her comments about the system worked.

She knew a lot about immigration policy coming into this job, but she didn't know much about homeland security per se. She's learning on the job.

SANCHEZ: She's going the give a speech or she will give a news conference, I understand. Who is -- we still have Ed Henry. Is Ed gone? Does somebody know out there? Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand she will be speaking after the president speaks and she's going to be taking questions from reporters. There's a thought out there that she might get hammered during this news conference. Have you heard the same thing? David Gergen, are you there?

GERGEN: Glad to see you have Ruben Navarrette on your show. He and I used to share a classroom together.

NAVARRETTE: That's right. Professor Gergen, good to see you.

GERGEN: Glad to see you, Ruben. He has done really well in life.

SANCHEZ: Do you think she's in trouble, Janet Napolitano?

GERGEN: I think she's more in trouble with the press and the public than she is inside the administration. They seem to be solidly behind her. They think she's terrific. And I think everybody agrees that she didn't handle that well.

SANCHEZ: Let me --

GERGEN: But I think she's in good standing with the president.

SANCHEZ: Let me bring Dan Lungren back into the conversation. He's our representative -- Republican from California, Sacramento. Love your city, by the way. What a cool place.

Do you think that Janet Napolitano should be answering serious questions, and do you expect she will get a little bit of a beating today from that news conference she will give?

REP. DAN LUNGREN, (R) CALIFORNIA: Well, I do think she should be answering some serious questions. Look, I know her. She was attorney general of Arizona. I was attorney general of California. I respect the work she did there.

But her performance this last week has not been one that leads to a lot of confidence. And I think that's something that is fair game, if you will. We will have to see what the president decides with respect to where the shortcomings occurred in this whole process.

SANCHEZ: Sheila Jackson Lee, same question to you about Janet Napolitano. She really has been the one that made a lot of the comments that have been, well, criticized, when she first came out and said things essentially worked when we knew they didn't.

LEE: Rick, you understand that I started out by saying don't panic, get prepared. If there are any answers to questions, the answers are gaping holes in our security system that need to be fixed. But leadership obviously is concerned about fixing it. And the president is going to take responsibility and demand a fix.

Let me say this. I appreciate the agency, the CIA. I mourned with the rest of the Americans with the loss of those eight agents in Afghanistan. But there was enough information based upon the individual's father and other information that my red-flag analysis should have been maintained.

It was a red flag, and that individual should have been moved from the watch list to no-fly list. And yes, Yemen is s a problem. And I say that to say that all of the people that are involved probably had missteps, serious missteps. But maybe some heads should roll. I think they should.

But I think more importantly, the president is going to take the lead on this, and his cabinet is going to fix it. And America has to get prepared. And we have the answers. Let's get a legislative fix.

SANCHEZ: We will see what he says. We are looking forward to the speech. My thanks to Dan Lundgren and Sheila Jackson Lee.