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Terror Trial Might Not Be in NYC; American Arrest in Haiti for Kidnapping Orphans; Controversy Erupts Over Super Bowl Ads; It's Grammy Night in L.A.
Aired January 31, 2010 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This hour, where will the 9/11 terror trial be held? The White House finally admits it's considering other options.
The newest senator, Scott Brown, is making the rounds in person and on national television. He gets the "will he run for president" question. How does he answer?
Plus, the red carpet and the outrageous musical performances. Live pictures now from Los Angeles. It is Grammy time there. We will take you there live.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
We begin tonight with the proposed trial of the 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Muhammad and four accomplices. It now appears that the Obama administration is looking at other options other than federal criminal court in Manhattan.
Senior presidential advisor David Axelrod said today the important thing is the trial, not the location.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: The president believes that we need to take into consideration what the local authorities are saying, but he also believes this: He believes that we ought to bring Khalid Sheikh Muhammad and all the others who are involved in terrorist acts to justice swift and sure in the American justice system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell put it this way...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: What we need to do is deny these people a show trial. We need to proceed to interrogate them, which you couldn't do, obviously, with the Christmas bomber. I mean, Larry King would have a more thorough interrogation of one of his witnesses than the Christmas bomber had by the Justice Department. This is really dangerous nonsense. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And our national correspondent Susan Candiotti is in New York.
Good evening, Susan. It looks like political forces on both sides lining up against the president on this one.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're hearing from a lot of politicians, you can just imagine. And in New York, the mayor, Michael Bloomberg, has said, you'll remember, that he was against the trial being held here. Senator Chuck Schumer said he took his leader from Police Commissioner Ray Kelly and Mayor Bloomberg. And when the price tags for security started to skyrocket and there was talk about the economic impact, Schumer joined the "not in my backyard" forces.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I've encouraged the administration to find suitable alternatives, and they appear to be doing just that. At this point, it's obvious they cannot have the trials in New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Now, New York Governor David Paterson was never on board. His main concern is over a possible emotional as well as economic impact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. DAVID PATERSON (D), NEW YORK: We are not trying to transfer a difficult situation from one place to another. But we do think that there would be a lessened affect on any other area, other than the Lower Manhattan region, and that would include other jurisdictions in the southern district.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Susan, if not Manhattan, then where? What are the other options?
CANDIOTTI: Well, there's been talks of Governors Island near New York City here, but that seems unlikely. And then there have been other possibilities, all in upstate New York, including the Air National Guard Base -- that's in Newburgh; the federal prison in Otisville; even West Point Academy.
We've also been hearing from the mayor of Newburgh, New York, population: 40,000. He says, "Bring it on. We could use the economic advantages that it would bring to our city. We have a brand-new municipal courthouse that costs us more than $20 million. Come here."
But then you have the county executive from that same county, Orange County, who is saying, forget about it. He's written to President Obama, to the attorney general. In fact, he says, "I have the power to close the roads here if I have to. Don't you dare bring that trial anywhere here in Orange County."
So, the debate goes on, Don.
LEMON: All right. Our national correspondent Susan Candiotti -- Susan, thank you.
Susan will be following the story throughout the evening here on CNN.
Meantime, we turn to Larry Johnson, a former counterterrorism official with the State Department. Today, he is a managing director of BERG Associates, which specializes in global security issues there in regards to international terrorists and he joins us now from Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Thank you, sir.
Listen, I'm sure that this was well-intended, but not -- maybe not thought out with the administration or the attorney general with all this backlash?
LARRY JOHNSON, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BERG ASSOCIATES (via telephone): Yes. It's unfortunate it wasn't well-thought, but I guess I'm really shocked that, particularly the Republican critics of this, because the very fundamental policy of the U.S. combating terrorism going back to 1986, which was put in place by Ronald Reagan and the first coordinator for counterterrorism at the State Department, L. Paul Bremer, Jerry Bremer, was the fact that treating terrorism is a criminal matter.
Now, you've had several critics of President Obama, most of them Republican, insisting that somehow he has decided to do something different and unique, and that's just an unfair, untrue criticism. I think in this case with Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, because he was captured overseas, it would have been as appropriate to have him tried in a military tribunal. I think the problem they face in taking it to New York City was the same problem that emerged when Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was unable to be tried in Oklahoma City and they transferred that trial I believe to Denver.
So I think, likely, in this case, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad and his cohorts probably would have wound up someplace else. But I think, at the end of the day, though, this notion that we can't try terrorists and that somehow if we do, we're going to collapse into a puddle of sweat and the world's going to end, I think, is just ridiculous.
LEMON: Is this really, I mean, sort of the way that you characterizing it and that maybe, you know, I don't -- again, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But it seems to be you're saying the Republican, that it's the GOP versus the president thing, if you look at the first World Trade Center bomber, if you also look at the bomber from New Jersey, and if you look at Timothy McVeigh, Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, all those guys.
JOHNSON: You go back to...
LEMON: Yes?
JOHNSON: Don, go back to...
LEMON: They were all held in a court system.
JOHNSON: (INAUDIBLE) the first one of terrorists that had hijacked a plane and blew it up in Jordan. He was basically set up and kidnapped in an operation off the coast of Greece with the FBI and CIA working together, flown back to the United States and put on trial.
This notion of capturing terrorists and putting them on trial has been long-standing policy that started with Ronald Reagan, was continued by George Herbert Walker Bush, was continued by Bill Clinton, that's continued by George W. Bush.
LEMON: So, are you saying this is partisan? That's my question.
JOHNSON: Yes, it's absolutely partisan. And I say that as someone, I was also a registered Republican. Now, I'm a registered independent in Florida.
But I tell you with this -- this is not only unfair, it's untrue and what the Republicans are doing I find to be despicable because to try to play this terrorism card against Barack Obama on this case is -- it is unfair, it's not right. Now, what bothers me is the Democrats have been so no inept in fighting back on this. All they have to do is just go back and look at the facts.
I'll give you a quick quote from L. Paul Bremer, Jerry Bremer, who is the president's first coordinator for counterterrorism set up in 1986. This is what he said in a speech in November of 1987 to the Council of Foreign Relations in Tampa, Florida.
He said, "Terrorists are criminals. They commit criminal actions like murder, kidnapping and arson, and countries have laws to punish criminals. So, a major element of our strategy" -- and remember, he's saying this on behalf of President Reagan -- "has been to delegitimatize terrorists to get society to see them for what they are."
Now, how is it that in 1987, it's OK for Republicans to make the case, that you can treat terrorists as criminals, but now, all of a sudden in 2010, it is Barack Obama who's surrendering America? I find that wrong.
LEMON: You know, I was thinking about Omar Abdel-Rahman, the blind sheik, also held in a court.
So, here's the question, then. Because people are going to say, well, you know, it's not just -- you know, there are some people who are going to disagree with you because there are people who lost loved ones in 9/11, who are Democrats, who say it should not be held in Manhattan. I had two people on who lost loved ones when this first came out and they said, one said they didn't, the one other said they did. It wasn't partisan.
JOHNSON: Right.
LEMON: I just thought it shouldn't be -- it was too costly and it will put New York possibly in danger of another terrorism attack.
JOHNSON: That's a separate issue, Don. I think the issue of whether to hold a trial in New York City, I think it's appropriate to have an argument over that. I think, you know, my own preferences, I think it should have been a military tribunal on Guantanamo. That's my preference.
But, the notion that we can't do a trial in the United States, that by doing so is, A, it's going to put us at risk and B, that we are somehow so weak and so cowardly that we can't stand against these terrible terrorists. You know what? We can beat these guys. We have been beating them, and we should not surrender to them on the fear basis.
And I find it very disturbing that when we've had several -- you know, the southern district of New York has been the most successful district, federal district in the United States in conducting terrorism trials. Mary Jo White, Patrick Fitzgerald, among others, are genuine experts on this. And unfortunately, nobody in the media has those people on air to talk about it. And instead, we got this partisan nonsense being bandied about that somehow by trying a terrorist in the United States, we're going to surrender.
LEMON: So, listen -- Larry, I got to tell you, many times, people -- especially Patrick Fitzgerald -- they don't like to talk to the media. So, it's not maybe the media's fault that they haven't been on. Maybe they just won't speak. But I do get your point.
Thank you so much. Former counterterrorism official Larry Johnson joining us tonight.
JOHNSON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: He shook up the political world by winning a seat once held by a Democrat, a party icon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ted Kennedy was the legacy from Massachusetts, but guess what? That's history now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Incoming Senator Scott Brown takes a victory lap all across Massachusetts. We take you there live.
An update on a troubling story out of Haiti tonight. A group of Americans arrested at the border and accused of child trafficking.
Plus, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Question (ph) on politics coming up. Please weigh on our political stories. We'll get your questions and your comments on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: He was a virtual unknown just a few short weeks ago. Now, Scott Brown is the toast of the Republican Party, and some say the toast of Washington and the nation. The incoming Massachusetts senator is on a three-day tour of his home state this weekend, thanking voters for their support.
Our Kate Bolduan is on the road with Brown today, and she joins us now from Foxboro.
Hello. You know, it's -- you know, he's a star. You see the flashbulbs and everything. He's been all over, Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You absolutely get that sense when you're at some of these events. You're absolutely right, Don. You're talking about the flashbulbs, you can probably still see them going on behind me. The crowd is gathering her and has been here for a little over an hour now, all trying to get in here to see the Senator-elect Scott Brown.
This is, here in Foxboro, which is about half an hour outside of Boston, it's the last stop on really what is essentially a "thank you" tour, a three-day kind of victory lap as he crisscrossed the state. And it's all about thanking the people who helped him secure what was widely seen as the surprise Republican victory in a solidly blue state. And people have absolutely been turning out at the event that we were at last night, an estimated 500 people at each event, a very big crowd here in Foxboro as well.
These events are light on campaign speech, light on any policy talk really of any kind, but we did have a moment to catch up with the senator-elect briefly to talk about the very big job awaiting him in Washington.
Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: Health care is going to be waiting for you when you get to Washington. Can you accept a more scaled-down version of the health care proposal?
SCOTT BROWN (R), MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR-ELECT: I have to see what's there. I think they're going back to the drawing board. And it was -- it was, I think, on its last legs before I got there because of the backroom deals and a lack of transparency. So, I'm open to see what's going to be proposed. I'm not sure where it's going to stand in the pecking order, if it's going to -- if we're going to deal with taxing and the job creation issues or we're going to deal with health care first. I haven't been briefed.
BOLDUAN: Priority one for you?
BROWN: My priority one is to get a business card and office, get my staff set and then get a feel for what's going to be coming up. We have the appropriations bill that I need to focus on to sure we can protect our interests in Massachusetts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: And you saw the crowds are all around. And I will tell you, as it's been in many parts of the country, Don, bitterly cold here in Boston and throughout Massachusetts, throughout this area of Massachusetts. So, people were waiting for a very long time in the bitter cold to get in to see him.
Who are these people? Well, family, friends, neighbors, some of them, and also, some of those independent voters critical to getting him elected. So, when is he going to be seated? Well, that is not entirely clear as of yet. Senator-elect Brown did tell some of the crowd last night that he's still expecting that it could be February 11th, about a week and a half from now.
But first step is getting this election certified and state officials tell CNN that they're at least expecting to get the election certified sometime this week. But he's definitely on his way to Washington.
LEMON: Oh, yes. Thank you very much for that, Kate.
And much, much more -- we're going to touch a bit more about what Kate talked about. Republican excitement about Scott Brown is off the charts. He's even being talked about in some quarters as a potential presidential candidate. Mention that right after he was elected here on CNN.
Earlier today, Brown told ABC's Barbara Walters that any chatter about a White House run is premature.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I don't even have a business card. I haven't been sworn in. I don't have any exploratory committees started. I don't have anything. It's overwhelming and it's extremely humbling. I don't know what else to tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And if you need more proof that Scott Brown is a new star in Washington, his popularity was spoofed last night on "Saturday Night Live." He accidentally walked into a Democratic leaders meeting looking for a bathroom and here's how "SNL" illustrated Brown's potential to influence Democratic leaders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry, I was looking for the bathroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's down the hall on the right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Speaker Pelosi. And let me just say, I'm looking forward to working closely with you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Closely?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, let's talk economy. With this new spending freeze, job creation is going to be harder than ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy. You're the speaker of the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And then it goes on to do the same thing with every member in the room. It's tongue in cheek, all in fun.
Scott Brown is a hot topic. And so, what do you think of him?
A lot of people are also talking about President Obama's visit with House Republicans. Ever seen anything like that before? Pretty candid talk. What did you think about that as well? If you have a question about what's going on in politics, send us your thoughts on Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or send us an iReport on iReport.com.
CNN's political editor Mark Preston will join me next hour, and we will discuss your questions and use them on the air.
New stimulus numbers out from the White House this weekend. We'll tell you how many jobs it has funded so far, how many -- and ask the vice president's chief economist whether it's worth all that money.
And it is the music industry's biggest night. We'll walk you down the red carpet at the Grammy Awards.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Our mission here on CNN this week has been to show you where your money has gone, all that tax money. The White House released a new report on the stimulus, and it claims nearly 600,000 jobs funded by the stimulus in the last quarter of 2009. The last report says 640,000 jobs were created in February when stimulus -- when it was passed, and then September of 2009, it was from February to September of 2009.
But those numbers came under fire. People were calling it fuzzy math.
More than $263 billion of the $869 billion fund has been paid out or distributed in tax breaks. It is gone to states. It's gone to contractors and also to other recipients.
So, the tally doesn't include jobs created indirectly from companies, buying supplies from the stimulus project, people spending tax cuts, increased unemployment benefits as well.
And the White House Council of Economic Advisers says the stimulus actually boosted employment by 1.5 million to 2 million jobs. Unemployment, though, remains at 10 percent. So listen, clearly, a lot of people are still out of work, and it's been nearly a year since the stimulus was passed. Is it really working, though, like it's supposed to?
So, let's bring in Jared Bernstein, the chief economist for Vice President Joe Biden.
Thank you, sir. Good to see you again. I spoke with you on Friday of last week. It's good to see you.
JARED BERNSTEIN. ECONOMIC ADVISER TO VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: So, listen, are these job numbers where the White House wants them to be? I'm sure you want them better, but are they close to where you want them to be?
BERNSTEIN: Yes, in the sense that the stimulus spending and job creation is very much on track. As you correctly pointed out, the act has saved or created up to 2 million jobs so far, and I think, again, as you stated correctly, that's the estimate not of our internal economists solely but by also the independent Congressional Budget Office, that's the go-to scorekeeper around here, as well as outside analysts, too.
So in that sense, the act is having its intended effect, creating and saving jobs across this country for teachers, for cops, for construction workers, and making some key investments in the president's top priorities for the future talking about clean energy, education, health care, et cetera. So, yes, but you also made the critical point that it has simply not offset fully the impact of the greatest recession since the Great Depression. There's no -- there's no conceivable stimulus package could, but it certainly helped.
LEMON: You sort of answered my next question, if you can talk a little bit further about this, Mr. Bernstein, because I want to know. Is this -- the new stimulus report, is it enough to satisfy the critics? The critics are going to say this didn't create as many jobs as we would have liked it had to create. So, is it going to satisfy the critics?
BERNSTEIN: Well, you know, the critics are going to do their thing. I think really our focus here is the American people. You've got up to 2 million people out there working in this economy who would not be at work, were it not for this act. You got a GDP report for the fourth quarter of last year where the economy expanded at a rate of almost 6 percent. This is an economy that was contracting at a rate of 6 percent.
You've got jobs now falling at one-tenth the rate they were when we got here. That is unacceptable. We have to have robust job growth every month, but the stimulus has helped get us closer to where we need to be.
So, the critics are going to squawk any which way. But as far as the American people are concerned -- and by the way, I thought some of your polling was instructive in this regard. They see the stimulus at work in their neighborhoods and in their communities, and these recipients reports are one of the ways that a mouse click away with a level of transparency heretofore unforeseen, they can do exactly that. So, I think from that perspective, surely it's helping. And I think people know it.
LEMON: You know what? The White House changed how it's counting these jobs from the last report. How did you change them, and how does that affect the numbers? Because, again, you said you let the critics be the critics. Some are saying you're not counting people who have been out of work a long time and what have you, or may -- who may no longer be looking for jobs.
BERNSTEIN: No, that's certainly not the case. Anyone who is working due to the Recovery Act is going to be picked up directly by these recipient reports and the indirect jobs will be picked up by the other measures mentioned earlier that get you up to 2 million.
I think the change in the reporting, that's actually an important change to help recipients do -- have an easier task of figuring out the jobs that are funded through the act. I think in the earlier reporting, there was a level of complexity that we found in the first tranche of reports to be really unwarranted.
So, we made things a little simpler for this second round. I think it's going to help recipients. We want them creating jobs, not filling out forms.
LEMON: Jared Bernstein, the chief economist for Vice President Joe Biden -- thank you for joining us on a Sunday, sir.
BERNSTEIN: Sure, Don.
LEMON: You know, we've been doing the math on the government's recovery plan. We did it last week, and we're going to keep our stimulus desk open. We're going to keep it in business this week. Make sure you watch for a series of reports by our very own Josh Levs.
More and more Americans are abandoning party labels and calling themselves independents and they're having a big impact on what happens in Washington. So, who are these independents? We'll talk about in the next hour -- that in the next hour with our political editor Mark Preston. And also, with our political director, Paul Steinhauser.
And the snow is over, but, man, the headaches certainly remain. Parts of the south could be looking at a treacherous morning commute. You want to stay tune. All that weekend snow is going to melt and it's going to refreeze.
And the TV ads are always a big part of the Super Bowl, and this year, one is drawing a whole lot of attention and controversy a week before the big game.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: So, get ready. Don't say we didn't warn because tomorrow morning's commute could be dicey in parts of the southeast as melting snow from a brutal winter storm refreezes overnight. A weekend storm dropped several inches of snow across the mid-south and Middle Atlantic States.
This is a scene in Roxboro, North Carolina, today. It looks beautiful, but -- as you can see, the streets have been plowed but all that snow is melting and the temperature is to dip below freezing overnight, and that could make for treacherous roads come Monday morning, tomorrow morning.
Our Bonnie Schneider is standing by in the CNN severe weather center.
Bonnie, tell us what to do.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Don, I would say take your morning commute with extreme caution, because we still have a lot of snow on the ground. The temperatures are bitterly cold.
(WEATHER REPORT)
SCHNEIDER: Tuesday is also Groundhog Day. We'll see if we get an early spring or six more weeks of winter. -- Don?
LEMON: We shall see. I'll be looking. How does it work?
SCHNEIDER: If the groundhog sees its shadow or not. We'll be watching very closely Punxsutawney Phil.
LEMON: Punxsutawney Phil. All right, thank you very much for that, Bonnie.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
LEMON: We'll check the top stories right now. Did you see this in the paper today? It's from Toyota. They took out this ad to apologize to customers for its massive recall. The company says it is working on a fix for millions of gas pedals and the announcement could come tomorrow.
Pakistan is investigating reports that a U.S. missile attack killed a leader of the Taliban in Pakistan, Haki Mula Masud (ph). His predecessor died in a similar strike six months ago. Masud (ph) been linked to the bombing in Afghanistan last month that killed seven CIA operatives. A Taliban source has told CNN the report is not true.
Some consequences from a U.S. arms deal with Taiwan. China is threatening sanctions on any U.S. company involved. There's also scrapping plans for visits between the Chinese and U.S. militaries. Washington plans to sell $6.4 billion in arms to Taiwan. The Chinese claim that Taiwan is part of their territory, and it doesn't want the island to formally declare independence.
The latest from Haiti, including more on why ten Americans were arrested at the border down there. And handing out 42 metric tons of rice per day, a look at the massive new relief effort that started in Haiti today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Turning now to the ongoing crisis in Haiti. The White House says humanitarian flights of people critically hurt in the earthquake will resume within hours. They were temporarily suspended out of the concern that the sheer volume of injured Haitians would overwhelm U.S. facilities. A White House spokesman says the administration has been reassured there is adequate capacity in the U.S. health care system to accommodate the injured Haitians.
Haiti's president came out of his shattered residence today to talk with his countrymen for about 20 minutes. We haven't seen much of him. It was the first-time appearances in public since the quake. Showing up at the gate of the presidential residence was a surprise to the people who were outside. A crowd quickly grew. Many took the opportunity to voice their anger and frustration over the slow recovery efforts. Those efforts got a major boost today from the World Food Program. The organization set up more than a dozen places to distribute tons of rice. Women were given tickets entitling them to one 55-pound sack. WFP expects the food distribution to reach about two million people over the next two weeks.
A group of Americans in Haiti have a whole lot of explaining to do. The five men and five women were arrested for child trafficking. But the group, the members of an Idaho-based charity, say it's all a misunderstanding.
CNN's Karl Penhaul has been sorting through the conflicting accounts of what happened. He joins us from Port-au-Prince.
Good evening, Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, this is become a very complex story and under deep investigation by the Haitian authorities right now. All ten Americans are members of Baptist congregations. They're from Idaho, Texas and Kansas. They have been formally charged with child he trafficking 33 babies and children, the youngest two months old, the oldest 12 years old. They're due to appear in Haitian court again tomorrow. Laura Silsby (ph), the team leader of that group, is strongly denying the charges. This is what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA SILSBY (ph), BAPTIST TEAM LEADER: By the end of the day, we were basically held in jail and the children were taken from us, which honestly, our tears tonight have not been for ourselves, because we're fine. It's for these precious children that have lost everything. and we've given them -- you know, we've been up several nights now with them, comforting them and caring for them through the night as they have wept and cried with their losses. It hurts me greatly tonight to know that they are in some camp somewhere once again alone and not, you know -- without that comfort.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: Now, the Baptists said that they believed that all the children that they were trying to take into the Dominican Republic were orphans. Laura Silsby (ph) described them as having lost everything. We now know that is not true. With went to the SOS Children's Village where the 33 children are and talked to the spokesman for an NGO there. It now emerges that many of these children actually have parents.
This is what one of the spokesmen had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOERGE WILLEIT, SPOKESMAN, SOS CHILDREN'S VILLAGE: Some of them for sure are not orphans, because immediately as they arrived here, a girl, she might be 9 years old, was crying loud, "I'm not an orphan. I do have my parents. Please call my parents." Some of the other kids as well. They have the phone numbers even with them from their parents or from their mother. So not all of these children are really orphaned. I guess at least ten are not orphans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: Now, then we -- the charity there allowed us to talk to one of the children, a 10-year-old girl. We also asked her, do you still have parents? She said, yes, I have a mother. We called her mother and asked permission to interview the child, but also said to the mother, what's going on here? The mother said that she gave her child to the Americans in the belief that she would be taken to the Dominican Republic, be schooled there and have a better life there.
But, of course, that is cutting no ice with the Haitian authorities. We talked to the Haitian prime minister, and he said that the American Baptists had no right to do this. The Haitian parents have no right to give their children away. He described this as a clear case of kidnapping.
Listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN-MAX BELLERIVE, HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER: For what they know now, it's a kidnapping case. Who is doing it? I don't know. What are the real objectives or those activities? I don't know. But that's just kidnapping, and it's more serious because it's involving children. And even if we had some related parents involved in cooperation, the children certainly were not fully willing to go because, in some cases, from what I heard, they were asking for their parents. They wanted to return to their parents. In any case, really just are not -- it's not acceptable and we won't accept it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PENHAUL: The Haitian government is pledging to fully investigate and fully punish the Americans if they find them guilty. There is a problem, however. Since the earthquake, the Haitian justice system is not functioning properly. And so in our conversation with the prime minister today, he left the door open to a possible extradition of the Americans to face trial in the U.S. The problem there, however, all the details of this case, all the investigation and all the evidence are here in Haiti. It opens the question, how could they be prosecuted in the United States for this -- Don?
LEMON: Are people there aware of this, about possible child trafficking here, Karl?
PENHAUL: Could you just repeat that, Don? There's a lot of noise.
LEMON: OK. Are people there in Haiti, on the ground, the citizens and visitors and people helping with the recovery effort, do they know about the possibility of child trafficking? Is that well- known? Is the word getting out?
PENHAUL: They certainly do, and it's something that international NGOs, the international charities have been warning against. They say that if adoptions are fast-tracked and if Haitian kids are sent to the U.S. or anywhere before the proper paperwork is completed, there is a danger there that kids could fall into the hands of child traffickers, not only kids-for-cash scandals, but also the kids could go into child pornography, child prostitution rings, a very dangerous risk of that.
Then, of course, there are other kids like these 33 that weren't in an adoption process and didn't have any documentation and no passports. There was no effort to take them out by the airports but through the D.R., through the Dominican Republic because the airports are much more difficult to get kids out of -- Don?
LEMON: All right, CNN's Karl Penhaul. Thank you, Karl.
The TV ads are a big part of the Super Bowl and one is drawing a whole lot of attention a week before the game.
And a fight over some words. Just exactly who owns that phrase so near and dear to New Orleans Saints fans?
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LEMON: All right. It may be bad times for the economy, but don't tell the folks buying Super Bowl ads that. At least 95 percent of the slots for next Sunday's game have been sold, some for $3 million for 30 seconds. Budweiser and Bud Light bought the most, with American car companies almost ignoring the event. This year, instead of waiting for a half-time wardrobe malfunction to generate some controversy, it's already coming from one of the ads all ready. Joining me from the Super Bowl city of Miami is Rick Harrow.
Rick, thank you so much. Tell us about this ad featuring the former Florida quarterback, Tim TeBow, Florida quarterback, because it's really drawing some controversy, and why so?
RICK HARROW, CNN SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: It's a family ad. First of all, I'm getting rained on, so something is going on here, too. Pro Bowl starts in an hour here, Super Bowl next week. Ads starting, of all the $200 million in ad revenue, the most controversial is the Tim TeBow ad. It is a family-oriented ad and it may go far as far as religious beliefs are concerned. CBS is now weighing what to do with that. The bottom line is that there may be a controversial ending to this ad. Just talking about it, as we've said, Don, is really important.
LEMON: Let's talk about other ads. It's not clear, we're told, why two ads, they're not -- CBS is not allowing them to go into the Super Bowl. One is by Go Daddy and another one is a web site called Man Crunch. They're gay-related themed ads.
Let's take a look at one -- whichever one you guys play, and then we'll talk about it. This is Man Crunch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Touchdown!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I'm talking about, baby. You suck, yes!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Let's go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Rick, you can see that. We'll let that one play a little bit so you can see that one. The guys -- I thought it was funny. I'm talking to the director here. He was asking me how long they wanted the ads to play.
And take a look at this one. That is from Man Crunch. Let's look at Go Daddy real quickly.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lowell (ph) started chasing his biggest dream, a business of his own. Lowell's first step, to build his he web site with GoDaddy.com, and with Go Daddy's easy-to-use ecommerce...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, so apparently, in this ad, this guy is a former NFL player supposedly, but very effeminate. And in the other ad, these two guys, these two guys start making out after a score there.
Again, you know, it could be that CBS has already had someone who is going to pay more, but there's been some criticism about that saying they're going to let the Tim TeBow ad, which sort of says something about politics and religion, but not let these two ads play. HARROW: Don, let's remember, in this economy, everybody wants a Super Bowl ad. They're willing to spend $3 million for a 30-second ad. That doesn't include the cost of production, which is huge. Everybody makes a value judgment. Is this too far? Is it too racy? Is it too controversial?
It's not only CBS, but it's NFL as well. And the companies want these ads on but want people to talk about it during this period and decide whether it's on or not. Vegas, other gambling cities, promoted gambling a couple of years ago. NFL said no and then they said yes. This is one of those slippery slopes that we'll hear more about, Don, for the next seven days.
LEMON: I want to bring someone else in.
Stephen A. Smith is a nationally syndicated columnist and a radio talk show host. He joins us tonight.
Good to see you. Rick and I are talking here. I'm not sure how much you know about the ad controversy with Tim TeBow had. And we're also talking about the two gay-themed ads that CBS rejected. What do you make of the controversy here?
STEPHEN A. SMITH, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST & TALK RADIO HOST: Well, I think Rick is absolutely right when he talks about it being a slippery slope, but it's not that slippery. It comes down to a value judgment on the part of CBS as well as the NFL. Do you want to, you know, really open the gateways to anything coming on the air, or do you want to hold true to your brand and make sure that you're keeping people's minds and eyes and ears on the sport of football and the theater involved with the Super Bowl. That's what it comes down to.
If you're talking about Tim TeBow's ad with abortion, initially my response was, OK, fine. if they pay 2.5 to $2.8 million to run that ad where he's basically talking about how he's against abortion, obviously, because of the situation with his mother and how she was told she needed to abort him and refused to do so, and look what he turned into. You take that one add. But then when you bring sexuality into the equation with a different commercial, what you're doing is saying to yourself right there, you're saying to the American people, we want to get paid or we don't. That's what this comes down to.
And to me, you know, what? You have to question whether it's worth it or not to have that kind of distraction taking place, because if they don't buy the ad for the Super Bowl, somebody else will step up and pay that kind of money for a 30-second commercial with the Super Bowl. It's not necessary.
LEMON: It's a value judgment you say.
SMITH: Yes.
LEMON: But we see half-nude people, especially women all the time. We see people making out with sexually explicit content. People are drinking. That's a value judgment as well, Rick Harrow. HARROW: Yes. Let's put it in context. Stephen is right. It's all about leverage. In this economy, you would say, hey, let's take anything we can. 90 percent of the ads and all the first half ads were sold out a couple of weeks ago. They're playing with house money. What do you do? Everybody wants to save their best bullet for Super Bowl week, and if it means being racy or crossing the line, a lot of ad agencies will be racy and cross the line. That's what makes it so interesting.
SMITH: Don?
LEMON: Listen, before we -- Stephen, we have to move on here.
You know, we talked a little bit the Who Dat controversy in New Orleans about who owns it. I'll move on and talk about something else. Let's talk about the Wizards and the controversy there. That's a Who Dat. Fans are upset, saying they own it and the NFL doesn't own it. People are upset. You know what? I've said this as a kid forever. What gives a corporation a right to say they own something, especially in New Orleans, when you have people who have been fighting for their lives, the economy, the little guy. If this is like any -- when people talk about big government, right, or big business, if this is big business or big government encroaching, this is it right here. You've got mom and pop shops trying to sell these T-shirt, trying to make money after Katrina, and the NFL is saying you can't do it.
SMITH: Don, it's a simple thing in my mind. The NFL is an $8 billion a year industry. When you consider how much success they've enjoyed, how they've basically taken over the sports world, how they're presently considered America's national past time as opposed to anything else, because they've miraculously and very adroitly turned this sport into a weekly event over six seven months. You generate those kinds of moneys and this is the kind of stuff you're fighting over, particularly with people in New Orleans, it does look bad. Who knows what rights the NFL does or does not have in terms of infringement and things of that nature or trademark, rather? What it comes down to is this. The people of New Orleans, this is supposed to be their moment. The people that appear to be raining on their parade is the NFL. It does not look good.
LEMON: Thank you, guys.
I said I was going to talk about the Wizards. I have to go here. I really need one sentence for you. What's next with the Wizards? Five seconds, whoever wants to answer.
SMITH: Gilbert Arenas (ph) will play next season.
HARROW: Stability -- stability -- stability, get past it. Sell tickets and move on.
SMITH: There you go.
LEMON: Thank you, both. Thanks, guys.
Pick up a copy of "Business Week" to see Rick Harrow's "100 Most Powerful Athletes" for what they do athletically and also in the business world.
A week from tonight, the New Orleans Saints will make their first-ever appearance in the Super Bowl. Who dat? Next hour, we'll look at what it means to the city and the people.
And who are the people still recovering? How are they doing? What does this mean for the ravages of the Hurricane Katrina victims?
It is Grammy night in L.A. Guess who's getting a lifetime achievement award? We have our Brooke Anderson on the red carpet. She's going to tell us all about it.
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LEMON: A very big night, perhaps the biggest night for music makers and music lovers as well, and perhaps an even bigger night for the Jackson family.
Let's go live to the red carpet and our Brooke Anderson at the 52nd Annual Grammy Awards.
You look great. Who are you talking to there?
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN HOLLYWOOD CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Don. Yes, the 52nd Annual Grammy Awards, really considered the premiere music event every year.
I'm talking to MGMT. They're nominated for a couple Grammys tonight, including best new artist.
So first time here at the Grammys, you are up for best new artist. You're new to this scene. It's got to be pretty cool.
BEN GOLDWASSER, MGMT MEMBER: Yes, it's cool. We saw all these people we never expected...
ANDERSON: Like who?
GOLDWASSER: Smoky Robinson.
It's kind of surreal.
ANDERSON: You're seeing your idols here. Smokey Robinson part of that great. And Michael Jackson tribute here tonight.
MGMT, how special is it to be here at the Grammys, because there's really a proliferation of awards shows these days. but it's easy to roll your eyes or smirk at another one. This one has the cachet, has the history. So it's got to be an honor.
GOLDWASSER: It's the real-deal awards show. You know, it's like the -- it's cool. I think we're really nervous, though.
ANDERSON: Why are you nervous? A lot of people nominated for best new artist have gone on to really explode on to the music season, the Beatles, just a couple years ago, Taylor Swift. Look at her now, eight nominations. Are you putting pressure on yourself or here having a good time?
UNIDENTIFIED MGMT MEMBER: Just, you know, just glad to be here. It's an honor, you know.
ANDERSON: These guys are from New York and they're all young, in their 20s. They're unrelated. But they tell me they're bros, as in pals, and they tell me their fashion sense is all about what, contrasting patterns?
UNIDENTIFIED MGMT MEMBER: Combining patterns.
UNIDENTIFIED MGMT MEMBER: Circles.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDERSON: Do you have a stylist or is this your look?
GOLDWASSER: We have a stylist. Yes. He's one of the best stylists in the world.
ANDERSON: Have you seen anybody else you're excited to have met here? Who are you looking forward to seeing tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED MGMT MEMBER: We just saw Carlos Santana over. That was pretty exciting.
ANDERSON: Congratulations to you guys on your nominations. Best of luck. Enjoy yourselves tonight. I'm sure we're going to be hearing much more great things from you in the future. Thank you so much.
Don, MGMT.
LEMON: MGMT. And those are really some contrasting patterns they have on there.
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Unlike our Brooke Anderson. You look fantastic. Thank you. We'll see you -- Brooke Anderson -- sorry, Brooke. Thank you. We'll see you in just a little bit on CNN.
The Saints hope to kick off the Mardi Gras season a little early with their first Super Bowl victory.
And we'll introduce you to a couple who've been together a long, long time, I mean a long time.
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