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Pedophile Pediatrician Faces 471 Felony Counts; Men's Slalom Underway in Vancouver Games; Zazi's Guilty Plea Considered Success for Civilian Courts; An Independent Streak

Aired February 23, 2010 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take it to the next level now. CNN NEWSROOM continues with Ali Velshi!

ALI VELSHI, HOST: Tony, thank you, my friend.

I'm Ali Velshi, as Tony said. I'm going to be with you for the next two hours today, and these two hours every Monday to Friday. I'm going to work to break it down for you, try to give you a level of detail that's going to help you make a level of decisions about voting, your spending, your safety and security.

I've got a lot on the rundown today. There's been a deadly shooting incident on Luke Air Force Base outside of Phoenix, Arizona. Guards fired on two men who allegedly drove a stolen car onto the base overnight. The car crashed. One man died; the other was hurt. They were apparently fleeing from sheriff's deputies. No evidence of terrorism.

On Capitol Hill, U.S. sales chief for Toyota is on the hot seat. In the first of a series of hearings, James Lentz said that Toyota's gas-pedal issues are not a sign of a deeper electronic problem. We'll dig -- we'll drill deeper into the story, and we'll hear from an accident victim.

Also, in Washington, former vice president, Dick Cheney, remains hospitalized after suffering chest pains yesterday. A source who talked to him tells CNN that Cheney is feeling good today. The 69- year-old has suffered four heart attacks over the past 30 years.

All right, what we're going to dig deeper into right now is something we've been doing for the last couple of days; we're going to do all week. We're going to be talking about "Broken Government." Is government in the U.S. broken?

Yesterday we talked about what you would do if you were the president of the United States to deal with this overwhelming freeze in Washington, this partisanship.

But now we want to take it to you. We want to do this from the perspective of the American voter. This morning we posed a question on my Facebook page. We asked what -- what frustrates people most about government. We've take a number of the answers, and we want to invite our panelists to respond to some of these answers, whether these are good ideas or not. Stan posted on my Facebook page, "Are elections about electing representatives of the people or endorsing a political party? Maybe we need to exclude parties from any mention of elections altogether and let whoever gets the most votes win, regardless of how many run from any party." That's from Stan.

Let's -- let's take this question to our panel, who is appearing with us all week this week. Christine Romans is our business correspondent in New York. Roland Martin is a CNN political analyst and the author of "The First" -- "The First: President Barack Obama's Road to the White House." And Bay Buchanan, former national treasurer under President Reagan.

Thanks for being with us. Is this the problem, Bay? Let's start with you. Is this the problem? Political parties, are they getting in the way of electing the best people possible?

BAY BUCHANAN, FORMER NATIONAL TREASURER: Well, I think there's no question that the parties are a problem in the view -- in the minds of the American people, because they no longer represent them. The two parties have almost merged in many regards on issue after issue as corporate America has really influenced them, so the American voter no longer believes that they are being represented by either party, quite honestly.

And the angst in this country is not only against the present government, which is Democratic, but it's as equally angry against the former one, Republican.

VELSHI: Yes. A very good point you make.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely.

VELSHI: Our polling indicates people are very frustrated with both political parties -- Roland.

MARTIN: Absolutely. But also expanding terms of what both of these parties do when it comes to drawing political districts. One of the reasons we don't have any real competition is because, for the most part, you have safe Democratic seats, safe Republican seats.

And so what you often see is that you have the individuals in the Democratic Party, and the Republican Party, who really appeal to the -- the fringe elements of their party. So you have folks who run who are very far right, very far left. And so both parties don't even like moderates. Moderates frankly are not welcome in primaries. And so the people who turn out, typically, are the those who are more zealots when it comes to their ideology, their party. And so whoever's in charge of the state legislatures, they redraw the districts.

VELSHI: Yes.

MARTIN: Because you have a two-party system, Democrats and Republicans, and that's part of our problem.

VELSHI: Christine?

MARTIN: And, Ali, you don't get a chance if you're an independent, if you're a moderate Republican or a moderate Democrat, you don't believe in the far right or left of your party. You don't get a chance to weigh in until you go to the ballot box in the general election, because in a lot of places you're kind of shut out from the primaries, right? So now you're just tempering around the edges. You don't get a chance to sort of set the agenda in the very beginning.

I think one thing we've been hearing about these independents is that they're frustrated that they think their economy is broken. They think their government is broken, that they don't have enough of a voice in this whole process, and that the winners will be whoever can figure out how to tap that independent angst and that...

VELSHI: yes.

ROMANS: ... that 86 percent of people who think that the government is broken and figure out how to get their voice heard in the ballot box.

VELSHI: All right. Let's take this to another...

MARTIN: Hey, Ali?

ROMANS: Yes, Roland

MARTIN: Yes. I'm registered in Texas. It's a perfect example.

VELSHI: Right.

MARTIN: I get to choose if I want to vote in the Republican or the Democrat primary, but if there's who's a Democrat and I want to vote for them, I can't do it. I've got to vote for all Republicans or all Democrats. I get to choose, but I'm still locked into one party in the primary. And so, to me, that's inherently unfair.

VELSHI: All right. We've got a few questions I want to get to from -- that were posted on Facebook. By the way, if you want to post a question on Facebook, go to my official Facebook page, Facebook.com/AliVelshiCNN. And you can post a comment there. You can go to @AliVelshi on Twitter. We really are enjoying your questions.

I want all three of you to just stay there for a second. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back and listen to Frankie's comment on Facebook about term limits. I'm going to ask you whether that's going to help the situation. Stay with us on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right, when we posted on Facebook, when we asked about what was wrong with government, boy, the thing nearly burned out we had so many responses. I think we all get it that there are problems. What we want from our panelists this week and we want from you are solutions. So I want to go back to our panel. Bay Buchanan, Roland Martin, Christine Romans. I want to go to Frankie from Facebook, who's written in to say, "I'd love to see term limits put in place, just like governors have one, the mayors, et cetera. There are members in Congress and the Senate who have been there since the '60s and still think the world is in the '60s, too." Meaning their thinking and decision making is not with the times.

Bay, we were just talking about gerrymandering, about districts that are very hard to change. Are term limits an answer?

BUCHANAN: I think term limits -- term limits would be -- is the answer. I think it's a key, but unfortunately, we attempted it a number of years ago. The Supreme Court said states can not limit their senators and congressmen, and so it would have to come either in a constitutional amendment or from the Congress itself, and you all know that's not going to happen.

VELSHI: Yes.

BUCHANAN: But the key is, they're absolutely right, because not only are they thinking like in the '60s and '70s and '80s, but also they have been tied in with special interests so long that they're owned by those fellows. There's no independent thinking. And so the Americans see that they -- their will is not even heard back here, because it's owned by the special interests and money people.

VELSHI: Roland, you don't like this idea of term limits.

MARTIN: I agree with Bay to a certain extent. The fundamental problem I continue to have with term limits is what happens when I get a great person? I experienced this in Houston, Texas.

BUCHANAN: Yes.

MARTIN: They had term limits for the city council. And there were a couple of people the last thing I wanted was to see them leave, because they were very proactive and they were strong.

But, again, it goes back to -- and I understand what Bay is saying in terms of corporate interests, in terms of people staying there, but I still go back to, if there are voters, you're dealing with somebody who is not speaking to your needs. You have the right to get them out of office.

And so that's the only issue I have. What if I got somebody who's really good, and now they can't run? Now I've got some nut case, only because the great person got -- has to leave. That's my only issue.

VELSHI: Christine.

ROMANS: And Ali -- Ali, what about the lobbyists? If you don't have term limits for lobbyists, then you're going to have new people coming in all the time. The lobbyists are going to really run the show then, right? I mean, the new guy will come in, and the lobbyist will sit down and say, "OK, this is how it works, young man or young woman." You know?

I mean, the one thing about the veterans there is that -- is that, you know, Bay said they're owned by the special interests, but they know how to navigate the special interests. And sometimes they are being wooed by somebody on one side and somebody on the other side who will work at cross purposes to one another.

So that's -- that's the thing there. But I get -- I get the popular anger about watching these same people make decisions and say, "Oh, we're going to solve this problem. We're going to solve that problem." And ten years later the problem is only worse.

VELSHI: Right.

ROMANS: But now they've got the prescription for how to solve it. And all along the way, it just costs us more money.

VELSHI: In about 90 minutes I'm going to talk to somebody I think you'll all think is a good person to talk to: former Indiana representative, Democratic representative, Lee Hamilton, a man right out of the age of negotiation and compromise.

But that takes us to our next comment from Facebook from Dana that says, "What bothers me is many of them," and I assume them, by them, Dana, means people in Congress, "act like kindergartners on the school playground. Learn some negotiation skills! Get the people's work done!"

Start with you again, Bay. We made reference yesterday to Ronald Reagan's time. We made reference to late in Bill Clinton's term, where negotiation became paramount, the most important thing. There is a feeling -- Evan Bayh said it last week or a week and a half ago -- that negotiation is dead in Washington.

BUCHANAN: It is dead. And there's good reason for that, though. It's because of those who want to do something, the Democrats now, and it was Republicans before, they want to take the country in a direction where the Republicans say, "No, we don't want to go there."

So how do you negotiate? We'll go a little bit in a bad direction? They say, "No, we're not going at all in that direction."

So I think that is extremely important. If you stick with your principles and not negotiating away principles because you're not in power. I think that is the job of the minority: to represent the American people, if indeed, those in power are trying to move the country in a direction that the people don't want to go.

MARTIN: Nonsense, Bay! This is the problem that we have. It boils down to one word, Ali, "power."

If you're a Democrat and you're in the minority, the last thing that you want is to see somebody else running the show. So, what you do is you slow everything down. You don't want to pass anything, because you want to be in control. If the Republicans are in the minority, the exact same thing. Luckily yesterday, we saw with the jobs deal, you had five Republicans who broke with their party who said, "No, we're not going to filibuster this. We're going to move a jobs bill through."

And so Republicans say, "Well, it should be bigger" or Democrats say, "It should be bigger." At least get something done.

So you don't have negotiation going on. You have egomaniacs who want to have power. They're not concerned with the average American. It's about whether or not they can keep their precious little jobs...

BUCHANAN: You know...

MARTIN: ... and still drive their ideology. Give me a little Republican stuff and a little Democratic stuff and I'm good, but don't play these games of shutting everything down.

BUCHANAN: You know, Ali, you...

ROMANS: You know, I think that the negotiation, I will just say that I'd like to know more about some of the negotiations going on. I mean, and sometimes there's the art of negotiation is behind closed doors with people representing different interests that I don't necessarily know about and that voters don't necessarily maybe agree with. So, some of the negotiation, I think, should be a little more aboveboard, especially when we have the huge undertakings that we're doing right now.

VELSHI: Bay.

BUCHANAN: Exactly. Ali, they key here -- you talked about Reagan. We talked about him yesterday. What did we do to win the Congress? The Democratic Congress, said, "No, we're not going to give you your tax cut." He went to the American people, then the American people put pressure on Congress.

That's what's happened last summer. The American people put pressure on the Democrats and said, "Do not give us this health-care bill." They have to be part of the negotiations. You cannot have the arrogance of Washington instructing the American people what they're going to give them because they know best.

VELSHI: Let me give you one last comment from Facebook.

MARTIN: A lot of the problem with Democrats is they couldn't explain what was in the health-care bill, because when you actually polled people who actually know what's in the bill...

VELSHI: You make a point.

MARTIN: ... they actually support it. So...

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: That's a problem...

MARTIN: So they know they don't want them to know about it.

VELSHI: It's a problem with health care. It's a problem with the jobs bill. Christine's going to come back and talk about that. It's a problem with TARP. It's a problem with bailouts. It's a problem with stimulus. It's a problem all across the board.

ROMANS: Financial reform.

VELSHI: That we talk about the process a lot, and I think that frustrates people. They -- they find out which senator got what deal for supporting this.

BUCHANAN: Exactly.

VELSHI: But we don't actually have the content out there for people to actually debate it on its merits, Bay.

MARTIN: And that's why our job, Ali...

VELSHI: So if you're going to go to the people, you've got to be able to have all the details.

BUCHANAN: You go to the American people.

MARTIN: And our D.C. people have to -- in terms of journalists have to stop about talking about process and talk about people. We can't put this all on the politicians. Also we, as journalists, who get all enamored with the back and forth, we also have to be very clear. Here are the facts. Here is the truth. Here's who's lying, and here's who's telling the truth.

BUCHANAN: But you know, the White House and those in power have the bully pulpit. Gosh, Barack Obama has been before the public more than any other president, I think. Constantly out there talking about these things. Why is it that he can't explain it? Why can't they explain it?

There's a problem in the bill, in the policy itself if you can't explain it, real simply, to the American people. It's not the American people's problem. It's theirs.

VELSHI: All right. Thanks to all of you. You'll be with us...

ROMANS: Ali, people are always skeptical of their government, too. You know, the economy's broken, so people who are normally skeptical about their government are really skeptical now because the economy's not working for them.

VELSHI: That's a very good point. That's a very, very good point.

BUCHANAN: I agree.

VELSHI: All right. We'll get to that. Christine is sticking around. Thanks, Roland, Bay, great to see you. We'll see you who all week, talking about "Broken Government." Not just talking about it; talking about solutions. This is why I love this panel.

And we continue to love your comments. We'll have more of them later in the show. But please continue to send them to us at Facebook.com/AliVelshiCNN, the official Ali Velshi page, or send them to Twitter, @AliVelshi. We will go through them. We go through each one and we'll bring them to you.

When we come back, we're going to talk about what's going on on Capitol Hill right now. In fact, we seem to have agreement between both parties on something, and that is Toyota is in a lot of hot water. Stick with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Toyota failed its customers, and the government neglected its responsibilities. Today we'll try to find out why.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: That's Representative Henry Waxman at the first of three hearings for Toyota getting under way on Capitol Hill.

Christine Romans, my co-host on "YOUR $$$$$" which airs on Saturdays and Sundays, is joining me to talk about this, and Brianna Keilar is in Washington. She's been in those hearings.

Let's start with you, Brianna. What's the latest on the hearings?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, we're still hearing from the first panel. We're still awaiting, really, I guess, the witnesses you would say are really going to be in the hot seat. We're still waiting to hear from James Lentz, the head of Toyota U.S. He is going to be up next.

But in the meantime, we've heard some very emotional testimony from Rhonda Smith. She's a woman from Tennessee who said she thought she was going to die when her Lexus, one of the ones that's under recall, under this Toyota recall, when it accelerated unexpectedly. She said, feeling like she may actually die, she wanted to talk to her husband, and she called him on her Bluetooth headset.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RHONDA SMITH, LEXUS EXPERIENCED UNEXPECTED ACCELERATION: I knew he could not help me, but I wanted to hear his voice one more time.

After six miles, God intervened. As the car came very slowly to a stop, I pulled it to the left median. With the car stopped and both feet still on the brake, the motor still revved up and down at 35 miles an hour. It would not shut off. Finally, at 33 miles per hour, I was able to turn the engine off.

We've never wavered from our belief that our problem was electronics, not wandering floor mats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And that suspicion of Rhonda Smith, as she said that this was an electronic problem, that it had to do with the computer in the vehicle, that is a suspicion that we've heard from so many lawmakers that they share. They're concerned it has more than -- to do with just accelerators or with these floor mats.

And actually, we heard, Ali, from an automotive expert who said he did find a weakness in the computers, a weakness that is sort of unusual when you look at the spectrum of all of these cars, not just the Toyota. He said there is a weakness in the computer that could make, essentially, some of the fail-safes Toyota has built into its computer not work.

But Toyota -- and we got testimony from the head of Toyota U.S., Ali, he is expected to stand by the computers in these cars and say, "We are confident it has nothing to do with the electronics."

VELSHI: One thing he said in a "Wall Street Journal" editorial that he published today, is that Toyota is going to come up with a system where, if the gas pedal's down and the brake is depressed at the same time, it's going to shut the car off. That's going to make a lot of people happier.

Christine, a number of issues here. One is what did Toyota know? When did it know it? How is it going to affect the company's reputation? But more importantly, "Consumer Reports" comes out with its list of best cars, and a couple of otherwise famous Toyota models are simply off the list now.

ROMANS: Right. Eight models altogether have been suspended from this list because of these recalls, among them the RAV4, the Toyota RAV4, which would have been on the list of top picks of small SUVs, and also the Highlander, which would have been the top pick for family SUV. Those are not on the list.

Instead you've got the Subaru Forester, the Chevrolet Traverse are on instead.

Look, it's pretty unusual to suspend a name because of a recall. And "Consumer Reports" makes a good point, Ali, that a recall ultimately is a good thing for consumers. It means you're getting a problem fixed, identified, and fixed, and a vehicle you're sure a vehicle is in a safe condition.

But in an unusual move, you're not seeing all of the Toyota names...

VELSHI: Yes.

ROMANS: ... on this annual list from "Consumer Reports" that you normally would. And one of the criteria of "Consumer Reports," as you know, Ali, very well, is safety.

VELSHI: That's right. And so they pulled some of these off just because they're on recall.

All right. This continue -- continues to be a very big story. Brianna, you'll be covering it when the president of Toyota all the way from Japan comes in and testifies. We've got some sense of what he's going to say, but we'll be back with the two of you.

Christine Romans, Brianna Keilar, thanks so much.

And you can watch Christine and me every Saturday at 1 p.m. Eastern and every Sunday at 3 p.m. Eastern on "YOUR $$$$$" right here on CNN.

OK. Let me take a look at some of the headlines that we've got right now.

We told you about a number of strikes happening, suspended or in the works. Well, now air-traffic controllers in France have begun a four-day strike. Hundreds of flights have been canceled at airports across that country. At issue, plans to integrate European air traffic control. Workers fear they could lose their jobs and benefits as a result.

A lot of tips, that's about all police in Vancouver have come up with -- come up with in the search for Andrew Koenig. He's the actor best known as Boner on the ABC sit-com "Growing Pains." He was last seen on Valentine's Day at a Vancouver bakery. His parents plan to meet with investigators today. They say their son had shown signs of depression in recent days.

And in New Jersey former New Jersey Nets basketball star, Jayson Williams, has been sentenced to five years in prison for fatally shooting a hired driver eight years ago. He avoided a retrial on a reckless manslaughter count by pleading guilty last month to aggravated assault. Williams will be eligible for parole after 18 years.

And former senator, Bob Dole, is recovering from knee surgery and pneumonia. He's at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. A statement from his consulting firm said the 86-year-old Dole is making great strides. Dole was the GOP presidential candidate in 1996, losing to Bill Clinton.

And it's a killer many of you might have heard of, but many of you may not be doing anything about it. Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells you what you need to know when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: I just want to correct something. I misspoke a moment ago. I was talking about former New Jersey Nets basketball star Jayson Williams. He's been sentenced to five years in prison for fatally shooting a hired driver eight years ago. Now he avoided a retrial on a reckless manslaughter count by pleading guilty last month to aggravated assault. He will be eligible for parole after 18 months. I said 18 years. It's 18 months he'll be eligible for parole.

All right. It's a common diagnosis at the doctor's office: hypertension. In other words, high blood pressure. It's the second leading cause of death in the United States. And, get this: while almost one-third of adults have high blood pressure, most don't have their condition under control, even though they can easily do it. Dr. Sanjay Gupta has tips on how to keep your blood pressure in check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as much as we talk about all sorts of different diseases here, hypertension, or high blood pressure, is something that most people have heard of, but it's still considered a neglected disease, at least according to this report.

This was really interesting. You know, about $73 billion go into the treating the consequences of out-of-control blood pressure. It affects a lot of people, as mentioned. About a third of Americans in some way affected by this.

The results are interesting. If you look at the people who have uncontrolled hypertension, 86 percent of them roughly have insurance and do see their doctor regularly, which sort of begs the question what is going on here, and that was really the focus of this report. Doctors either are not diagnosing hypertension enough or not treating it aggressively enough, and then that's what they specifically wanted to point out here.

Some of this obviously is on the -- on the individual, as well. And a good way to start, trying to address the concerns about hypertension, is simply knowing your numbers. We talk about this quite a bit. But the top number is the systolic number, should be around -- below 140, really below 120, and the bottom is the diastolic number. It should be below 90, really below 80. Over 90, it's certainly definite hypertension.

By the way, systolic, diastolic. You can remember that by remember the Saints on top of the Devils. A little mnemonic there is you want to remember.

The key to hypertension, really, and the important thing is there's a lot of ways to prevent it in the first place. Simply trying to make sure your weight is under control, also making sure you have plenty of exercise, at least 30 minutes a day.

And when it comes to diets, simple modifications can make a difference. Really think about your sodium levels, your salt, how much salt you're taking in. We in the United States take in way too much salt, usually about four grams per day on average. If you cut that down to closer to two grams or 2,300 milligrams, you're going to dramatically reduce your chance of developing hypertension.

Also, on the other end, potassium, only about 2 percent of us in this country get enough potassium, and if you're getting too much sodium, that lowers your potassium down even further. So make sure your eating foods with high potassium, as well: sweet potatoes, spinach, all sorts of different foods will do that. Read those labels, and you can probably try and control your hypertension before it ever becomes a problem.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: All right. Good advice, eating sweet potatoes and spinach. I'll do more of that.

All right. But first, do no harm. Doctors are supposed to live by those words. I've got a story about a doctor who allegedly did monstrous harm to children. That's coming up, along with invaluable advice to parents from CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: If I asked you to name some people in your life whom you absolutely trust, and need to trust, aside from family and close friends, you'd probably name your doctor, and especially your children's doctor, and that is what makes this next story so revolting.

A pediatrician in Delaware, Earl Bradley, has just been indicted on charges that he molested more than 100 of his young patients. Four hundred and seventy-one felony counts, including rape, assault, and sexual exploitation of a child. We don't know the ages of the alleged victims yet, but we do know Bradley was arrested back in December after a two-year-old told her mom that Bradley hurt her, you're right, only 2 years old. Even authorities are shaken. Listen to Delaware attorney general Beau Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEAU BIDEN, DELAWARE ATTORNEY GENERAL: These were crimes committed among the most vulnerable among us. Those without voices. And they were crimes committed by someone with whom an entire community, and parents, had placed their trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Biden says all of the alleged crimes are on 13 hours of videotape found in Bradley's office and home. The doctor's lawyer tells CNN, and I quote, "it's kind of hard to argue with videotapes." The issue he says is going to come down to Bradley's mental health at the time.

Well, the issue for parents is making trips to the pediatrician no more scary than they need to be. Joining me to talk about that is CNN senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. What a remarkable story. I almost couldn't believe it when I first heard about it. First of all, is this common?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, unfortunately this happens more than you might think. We went and did a search for issues like this, pediatricians accused of molesting patients or similar things. Just in the past year, and, sadly, we came up with a list.

And look at this, in Illinois there's a pediatrician who had felony sexual assault charges against him. Pennsylvania, unlawful contacts with a minor. Ohio, a pediatrician was accused of 16 sexually related charges again his former patients. In Texas, a pediatrician accused of molesting four prepubescent boys, and that is in the past year.

VELSHI: Parents typically are often in the visit with their children when there's a pediatrician there. What's the advice? Do they stay in the office? Is there an occasion where the doctor may legitimately need time alone with the patient?

COHEN: I can't think of one.

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: You know, there's no reason not to stay with a child, especially when you're talking about very young children.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: Stay with the child, stay with the pediatrician. It doesn't matter how much you love with your pediatrician, this is not someone you know terribly well really when you get down to it.

VELSHI: I guess the issue in some cases, pediatricians are the ones who report alleged sexual assaults by the parents. So, that may be one instance where they want to talk about the kids, but in this case if you are fearing sexual assault, that really doesn't make you want to leave the room.

COHEN: Right. If something feels a little bit strange to you, like in this case, the parents would say, "Oh, go do what you need to do. I'll take little Susie off and give her a treat or whatever." Don't trust that. Stay with your child. It sounds crazy.

VELSHI: It really does, that that's a place that you now have to guard your child, and hopefully there are a whole lot more visits to pediatricians than show up on our list of dangerous items. But it's, wow, not something you thought you would have to look out for.

COHEN: No, it's definitely not, but it's not something that is hard, either. I can't think of a time I left my child in the room alone with the pediatrician. There's just no reason for it.

VELSHI: All right. Good advice. So, even if it seems like it needs to happen, stay with the child when they're at the hospital. Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much for joining us on that.

When we come back, I'll tell you about a shooting at a base in -- at an Air Force base. We'll tell you about the latest in that when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

VELSHI: Let's take a look at the business going on at the Winter Games in Vancouver. Mark McKay is there for us. Let me give you a medal count, by the way, before we go on to that. The U.S. is well in the lead, 25 medals: seven gold, eight silver, ten bronze. Germany, which was the country to beat, has seven gold, nine silver, five bronze. And Norway a distant third at 14 medals: six, three and five. And Russia has two, three and six. And the host country, Canada, which was making a big push to be a medal leader with ten medals in total: five golds, four silver, one bronze.

Let's go to Mark McKay, standing by in Vancouver. I think men's slalom just getting under way.

MARK MCKAY, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Actually underway for a little while up at Whistler Mountain, Ali. The men's slalom. Eric and Bode Miller was looking for his fourth Olympic medal here in Vancouver. It's not going to happen today. Not a while ago, Miller skied out on his run, the second half of his run. He's done in the giant slalom. Miller already owning a silver and a gold and a bronze. He'll have a chance for a fourth medal this week in the slalom.

The United States claimed silver Monday in the Vancouver games in the elegant sport of Olympic ice dancing. Meryl Davis and Charlie White finished second to the gold medal winners from right here in Canada, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moyer. First time that a North American pair has won ice dancing gold, so it's gold and silver for North America.

Ali, the Russians aren't too happy about this. The reigning world champs, Oksana Doumina and Max Chabalin (ph). They took bronze. And Russia really hasn't had a hold on Olympic ice dancing, really dating back to the games of '76.

VELSHI: Mark, we've been talking about a lot of great stories. One story struck me as very, very sad. The story of Joannie Rochette, a Canadian skater. Tell us the story.

MCKAY: She will skate today with an entire nation behind her, for sure, Ali. Rochette will skate in the opening short program of women's figure skating. She's coping with the loss of her mother, Therese Rochette, came here to watch her daughter compete from Montreal. Both her mother and father came here over the weekend, and her mother, Therese, died of a heart attack. Joannie will skate, and many wondered if she'll remain here, but the native of Quebeck says she will, and she do so with the support of the Canadian people. She will certainly feel the love tonight at Pacific Coliseum. Ali?

VELSHI: Yes, it will be one of those of things that we'll all be watching her, no matter who you are supporting, giving her a little extra of our heart and mind. Mark McKay, we'll check in with you in an hour to see what's going on in Vancouver. Mark McKay in Vancouver All right, let's take a check of top stories. In Arizona, one man is dead and another is injured. Both shot after allegedly driving a stolen car onto Luke Air Force base. The base said the pair ran through one security stop and headed for another. That's when security officers opened fire. There's no evidence of terrorism in this case.

In Afghanistan, new efforts to reduce tensions between allied forces and civilians. A classified order puts restrictions on troops conducting nighttime raids on Afghan homes and compounds. That's according to a senior United States official who has seen the document. The order was reportedly signed by General Stanley McChrystal, who released a video apology for 27 civilian deaths in a weekend NATO air strike.

And in Virginia, former congressman Charlie Wilson will be laid to rest in about 15 minutes in Arlington National Cemetery. The Texas congressman helped funnel millions of dollars in weapons to Afghan rebels, who eventually defeated the Soviet army. He will receive full military honors.

And when we come back, you heard yesterday Najibullah Zazi pleaded guilty to planning the bombing of a New York subway station. We'll break down the details of how it went down, what he was plotting and how he was found out when we come back.

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ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: This was one of the most serious terrorist threats for our nation since September the 11, 2001, and were it not for the combined efforts of the law enforcement and intelligence communities, it could have been devastating.

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VELSHI: Attorney general Eric Holder. Najibullah Zazi, who you see here, pleaded guilty on Monday to several counts, including conspiring to detonate explosives in the United States. Now, this all started five months ago. Nobody knew about Najibullah Zali -- Zazi, or at least we didn't, five months ago. He was arrested after trying to set off these bombs. He was planning to do them on September 11. Now he's been convicted, and he's going to jail.

Let's talk a little bit about who he is and what this -- what this whole setup was. Najibullah Zazi was -- Najibullah Zazi was a 25-year-old Afghan native. He lived in Denver, Colorado, and worked as a shuttle -- an airport shuttle driver in Denver.

Now, he traveled to Pakistan in October -- in August of 2008, but he never made it back into Afghanistan. He was in the -- the tribal areas. He wanted to fight alongside the Taliban, but he was recruited to al Qaeda instead. Zazi said he had discussions with al Qaeda to target the subway system in the United States. Remember, he went there to fight the Taliban, to fight Western forces in Afghanistan, but he was sent back to the United States to target the New York subway system. He learned how to make explosives, and he e-mailed himself bomb making instructions back here in the United States.

Now, fast-forward to August and September of 2009, a year after he was in -- in Pakistan. He's back in Colorado. He twice checked in to motels where he experimented with heating up chemicals. You've seen this video probably before. I'll show it to you again. This is video that CNN has obtained of Zazi at beauty parlors in the same area. He's buying large quantities of chemicals that can be used to make bombs.

Now, Zazi drove those materials from Denver, from the Colorado area, to New York just before September 11 of last year. Just before September 11 of 2009. He drives all the way back. He was stopped coming into New York on the George Washington bridge, which leads in from New Jersey into New York. He was allowed to go free. He was stopped on a traffic violation, but he was allowed to go free.

He had the sense -- and was informed by somebody -- that authorities were watching him, so he dumped the chemicals that he was driving with. Authorities indicated to CNN that by that time, however, he had been under surveillance for months.

Now, authorities raided several Queens apartments, including the apartment of a friend where he stayed. Zazi himself was arrested -- here you see it -- September 19th, 2009, last September, in Colorado.

Now, he pleaded guilty to three counts. They are conspiracy -- conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction, conspiring to commit murder in a foreign country and providing materials to support a terrorist organization. Sentencing is set for June the 25th. The terms of the plea deal are sealed. Government sources say, though, that the threat of legal action against his family and possible deportation of his mother, played a role in his decision to cooperate with the government.

Let's discuss this a little bit more with CNN national security contributor, Fran Townsend, who knows a lot about -- about these sorts of things. Fran, thank you for joining us.

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Sure.

VELSHI: Fran, this led us to a discussion about how they so effectively in five months got this guy to -- to tell us everything he was planning to do and provide these guilty pleas. These potential threats against his family in terms of what would be would be done to his family, deportation or conviction. Tell us about those.

TOWNSEND: Sure. Well, Ali, obviously, what you want to do is find out what is most important to him. You know, Zazi admitted in open court when asked by the judge, he intended to be a martyr, a suicide bomber. And so, there's little that you can point to that you know is going to be of value to him, but the authorities did understand that the potential prosecution of his father and the potential for immigration and deportation charges against his mother -- that did matter to him. We're hearing from sources that he began to cooperate after legal proceedings were instituted against his dad, and once you find what the triggers are --

VELSHI: Right.

TOWNSEND: -- that are important to the individual defendant, now you have leverage with which to try to get them to cooperate.

VELSHI: OK, I want to ask you this. I'm going to hold it until after the break. I'm going to ask it to you. There's been a big discussion on whether there's greater success in getting these guys to sing by using military tactics, military tribunals and different rules than using a civilian court. In this case it was a civilian court. Is that a victory with this administration, and do the two different ways of interrogating make a difference? I'll come back and continue that conversation with Fran Townsend about the conviction of Najibullah Zazi.

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VELSHI: Continuing our conversation on Najibullah Zazi, who pleaded guilty and convicted now on three counts.

Fran Townsend is a former -- she's a CNN national security contributor, former Homeland Security adviser. Fran, let's talk about how we question and interrogate terrorists. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, and you and I talked on Christmas Day when he was arrested -- the underwear bomber we call him now -- and he is being tried as a civilian in civilian court, and some people think he should be treated as a enemy combatant and tried in a enemy tribunal. And this argument is made all of the time, and what is the difference in terms of interrogating and getting information from somebody?

TOWNSEND: You know, interesting. Well, if we look at the Zazi case and make the analogy, I'll tell you, you could have threatened the exact same sorts of things against one's family whether they are in a criminal process or military commission. So, in terms of finding the leverage points, it does not matter. So, by and large, that is a political argument that does not carry much weight with me.

This Zazi verdict, and interrogation, the gathering of intelligence, is a success for the administration and hard to argue credibly any other way about it.

Here is the thing that does, I think, rightly concern people. The criminal process does yield successful results like this one, but what is plan B for when the criminal process you can't get somebody to cooperate? Where are the high-value detainee interrogation teams this administration announced they were going to set up? What is the implementation plan? What are the rules for when they'll use the military commissions?

There is a lot we didn't know and I think that gives people concern. They understand that sometimes the criminal process will work, but what happens when it doesn't, and we don't have many answers about what the administration's policy is.

VELSHI: Well, I have never really interrogated anyone, but what strikes me in terms of finding the trigger points, the family was a weak point and it would be an obvious starting point in any criminal investigation. And I assumed that by the time someone is willing to undertake a terrorist act, they have sort of dotted those I's and crossed the T's and that is not going to be a weakness. Is it more common than we any that you can tell someone you can go after their family?

TOWNSEND: Well, it is, Ali. Actually, it's true. By the time they are ready to kill themselves, they have mostly written that off. But that is because they are not thinking they will be caught before they are successful. Once they are caught and now know their life is over and they are going to jail, they do think about the loved ones they can save from the fate. So those often than more people do realize, it is a trigger point.

VELSHI: So it works better for failed terrorists, perhaps, than those who get further. Let's talk -- obviously, because those who succeed may not be around to be tried.

When we have this discussion, and you hear them on the Sunday talk shows about whether we should be using military tribunals and aggressive interrogation techniques versus those standing up to civilian scrutiny, what's the best approach for government? Should it be a combined version. Should they be able to do both or find out which one works better?

TOWNSEND: That's exactly right, Ali. In different circumstances, different techniques will work better.

One of the things that you will find, even law enforcement will tell you, in terms of interrogation and success, you need time. You need to build a rapport with the suspect. You need to actually have him trust you, and so sometimes, that takes longer than the criminal process will allow.

Of course, you have more flexibility to put off the introduction of lawyers and the actual process that applies in a criminal context where there are strict deadlines and access to a lawyer. So, depending on the circumstance, you may want to use one or the other, but you certainly want to have access to both.

VELSHI: Fran Townsend, always a pleasure to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Fran Townsend is national security contributor for CNN and former National Homeland Security adviser.

All right. You've had it with the Republican. The Democrats are driving you crazy. Is the next step becoming an independent? if the Democrats are driving you crazy as the Republicans, should you become an independent? Well, it's not as easy as you may believe.

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VELSHI: Sounds like some of you are not going to take it anymore. You are fed up, not just with one, but with both, the Republican and Democratic parties. That's a story for a growing number of you across the country. But going to way of the independent is not as easy as you may think.

We continue the "Broken Government" series with Casey Wian, who found out firsthand with a maverick in Santa Barbara, California.

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CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This mother and son rarely see eye to eye politically. He's an unabashed Liberal, she's more Conservative.

But now Jacob Carr and Nancy Corradini could find themselves in the same boat, as registered Independents, which could essentially rob them of the right to vote in some very important elections.

JACOB CARR, DISILLUSIONED VOTER: I was one of the people who voted for Ralph Nader.

WIAN: In 2008, Jason registered as a Democrat to vote for Barack Obama. Today, he's disillusioned and disappointed.

CARR: I guess just throughout the year my -- my hope flame has been dwindling and dimming.

WIAN (on camera): Would you consider becoming an independent, a declined state (ph) voter again?

CARR: Yes. I'm -- I'm, you know, I'm definitely considering that or -- or even maybe registering as some -- like a third party.

WIAN (voice-over): Nancy beat her son to the punch. She became an independent two years ago after determining her party just didn't speak for her anymore.

NANCY CORRADINI, INDEPENDENT VOTER: Sometimes that's difficult to be a moderate Republican in the public -- Republican Party. They call you Republican in name only.

WIAN (on camera): RINO?

CORRADINI: Yes. I -- I heard that buzz word the other night. RINO. I thought it was so -- so insulting.

I emotionally became detached from the Republican Party.

WIAN: But Nancy never considered that going Independent would actually take away her right to vote in some key elections -- primaries. Here in California, political parties get to decide before each and every election whether to allow Independents to vote.

WIAN (voice-over): Joseph Holland is the Elections Registrar for Santa Barbara County.

JOSEPH HOLLAND, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY CLERK: Elections are not simple. They're -- every election is different. They're -- they -- believe it or not, they do change from election to election.

WIAN: That can leave Independents like Nancy pretty confused, but that's not all.

WIAN (on camera): On a local level or even in Congressional races, primaries are often where the key political decisions are made.

Say you're an Independent living in a heavily Democratic district. If you can't vote in the Democratic primary, you're not going to have much influence over who wins the general election. It's probably going to be a Democratic candidate you had no role in choosing.

WIAN (voice-over): In the 2008 presidential primaries, independents in 17 states and the District of Columbia were shut out of crucial primaries. Those voters had no say at all in determining the major party candidates.

JASON OLSON, INDEPENDENTVOICE.ORG: We are second class citizens when it comes to political representation and participation.

WIAN: Jason Olson is and independent voter activist pushing to change the law in California. This June there's a proposition on the state's primary ballot to eliminate party primaries entirely.

OLSON: All the candidates (ph) were on the same ballot. All the voters, regardless of party, vote for the best candidate and then the top two vote getters would then go on to a run-off style election. So there'd be no more segregating voters by political party and excluding Independents.

WIAN: That's how it's done in Washington State and Louisiana. In other states, party officials are trying to move things in the other direction. In Arizona, for example, the Republican Party is trying to close its primary so only registered Republicans can vote.

Still, Olson sees momentum moving in his direction.

OLSON: We have a real shot to have independents kind of crack open the doors, if you will, and start forcing some real change.

WIAN: And newly independent Nancy Corradini agrees.

CORRADINI: I think it's going to snowball. It's not going to stop.

WIAN: Casey Wian, CNN, Santa Barbara, California.

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