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Future of Government: Will New Faces Bring Change?; Press Conference at SeaWorld About Trainer's Death; Should Zoos, Aquariums Be a Thing of the Past?
Aired February 26, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to continue that discussion about the whales and the discussion about what should happen to a whale that has killed several times.
I'm Ali Velshi. For the next couple of hours I'm going to be with you, as I am going to be every weekday in these two hours. I'm going to take every important topic that we are covering on this show and break it down for you. I'm going to try and give you a level of detail that's going to help you make important decisions about your voting, your spending, your safety, and your security.
Here's what I've got on the rundown. Here's what I want to know: what do you do with a whale that kills, not once, not twice, but three times? Confinement or freedom? Or something more drastic? We'll have that discussion.
Also on my rundown: Congress, you all know this, has some very bad habits. I know I'm stating the obvious. But hold on. I want to know if our newest batch of lawmakers have picked up on those bad habits yet. Do freshmen congressman have a fighting chance at change? I'll ask them.
Plus, are you heading to the airport today? Two words: "call ahead." If you're in the northeast and heading -- or if you're heading to the northeast or you're trying to head out, guess what? You're probably staying home. It's winter, and it's here to stay.
All right, we're going to talk about "Broken Government." We've been talking about it all week. According to a national poll, 86 percent of Americans think government is broken.
Well, we wanted to talk to a bunch of people who actually matter in this process: freshmen congressmen. All week we've been talking about this with our panel of -- of experts on -- on government. We've been discussing what you can do to actually help things.
But look at these two gentlemen on your screen. These two gentlemen are Jared Polis. He's a Republican from Utah. And Jason Chaffetz, a Democrat from Colorado.
Jason, identify yourself?
REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Hi, I'm Jason Chaffetz. I'm actually the Republican from Utah. REP. JARED POLIS (D), COLORADO: And I'm Jared. I'm the Democrat from Colorado.
VELSHI: All right, Jared Polis is the Democrats.
POLIS: We're good friends. It doesn't matter.
VELSHI: Excellent. And we are -- you are two guys that we have been profiling for some time. You've been blogging about your freshman year. And so we wanted to bring you back, because we've been talking about how Americans are thinking that something is broken in Congress.
We thought you guys are new to this whole thing. Let's -- let's -- let's chime in with you and see how you're doing.
Jared, I'm going to start with you. Very unusual stuff that you were blogging about. You came into Congress. You didn't -- you didn't even take the housing that was -- that was given you to there. You were sleeping on a cot in your own office. You really wanted to do things a different way. How are you feeling a year in?
POLIS: Well, I'm going to turn that over to Jason, who has -- stays on the cot in his office but --
VELSHI: This is totally puzzling me. OK, Jason is on the right, and he is the Republican from -- from Utah. Jared is on the left. You're the -- Jared, put your hand up.
CHAFFETZ: It's simple because I am always to the right of Jared.
VELSHI: And that's the way we're going to remember it. Very good.
CHAFFETZ: Exactly.
VELSHI: All right, Jason.
CHAFFETZ: Yes, look, you know, we're not part of the -- of the problem of the past. We want to be here because we want to be part of the solution for the future. And we didn't create this mess, but we are here to help clean it up.
And so, you know, I advocate that we've got to do business differently. And we -- we are not here to just maintain and perpetuate the status quo. So, yes, I do little things differently. Like I sleep on a cot in my office, because I need to save some money for my family. And I want to work across the aisle and work together with guys like Jared and others who care about this country.
VELSHI: All right, Jared, tell me about doing things differently. Are you able to effect change in Congress? Is it so set in its ways and it does things a certain way? Are you outsiders, or are you actually part of the process now?
POLIS: You know, we're -- I've been thrilled how, even as new members we've jumped right in and been part of the process. My major legislative efforts are bipartisan. I'm the sponsor of a charter school bill called the Ulster (ph) Act. We had a hearing earlier this week. It had sponsors from both parties.
The leadership of both parties doesn't talk enough to one another. But you know, part of the issue is, is the American people themselves disagree. When you look at something as contentious as health care, yes, a good part of our country really wants it, and a good part of our country doesn't want it. And we here in Congress tend to reflect both of those viewpoints, but we try to do so in a civil way and try to come to -- work towards the common good.
VELSHI: Let's -- let's just attack the -- head-on to both of you -- the biggest criticism out there about Congress, and that is that compromise is dead in Congress. Is that true? And have you seen it? Maybe you're not behaving that way, but have you seen it? People think that people don't get deals done in Congress because compromise is dead.
CHAFFETZ: Well, I want to make sure that there's maximum openness and transparency. I think we -- that Congress as a whole has failed in that regard. And the reality is, the Democrats have the House and Senate and the presidency. And I know there's a lot of criticism saying, "Oh, the Republicans are the party of 'no'."
But I've got to tell you, I would disagree with that. I don't think we've been the obstructionist along the way. I think we want to tackle these issues just as much as the Democrats do. But I think you also need to look at the coach. If you're trying to change the way the football team's operating, oftentimes you've got to look at the coach. And I'm disappointed in how leadership has conducted business thus far.
VELSHI: All right. So you have -- you guys have two different problems. Jason, your problem is that where is your party going and what's the leadership? And the Democrats, Jared, you have the problem that there's infighting. There are two parts of the Republican Party, and they're not coming together on some of the legislation that the Democrats should have been able to pass because you've got majorities in both houses.
POLIS: You know, there's a lot of priorities that we're going to need on work together on for the country. One example that I care deeply about, I know Jason does, as well, is immigration reform. We've got to fix our broken immigration system.
You know, we need ideas from all sides working together. And there's absolutely people entrenched on both sides who don't want to see that happen, but that just preserves the status quo. And I haven't heard from a single constituent whether they're on the far left or the far right, that we're doing everything right with regard to immigration and we ought to continue the way it's been going.
VELSHI: And I want to ask you guys both. You got to Congress. What a great job to be a representative of your people. You're young guys. Are you a little concerned that, in some quarters, people like you less than they like car dealers?
CHAFFETZ: Yes. Yes. I mean, it's -- look, people are frustrated, because they're hurting out there. The economy's sour, and when people are -- have that feeling in the pit of their stomach, worried about whether or not they're going to have income or be able to get health care and this sort of thing, of course, we're here to fight for that sort of thing.
And the system in many ways is broken. But, you know, I'm very critical of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and to some degree the president, because I don't think they've worked to help bring us together.
POLIS: Again, I don't think that that kind of blaming it on one side or the other gets us to where we need to be. And I don't think you can mention any blame to the Democratic leadership without also involving the Republican leadership. It takes two to tango.
We'd all like to see our leadership working closer together and doing some dancing. And I think they can. They're going to have to if we're going to tackle important issues like immigration reform.
The truth is, on health care, the Republicans chose not to be at the table. I think we saw that yesterday at the summit with the president. We want to incorporate Republican ideas into this health- care reform bill.
At the end of the day if we're going to incorporate those ideas, there's got to be support from the other side of the aisle.
VELSHI: Well, Jason, you're nodding your head. Tell me -- tell me why you're disagreeing with that.
CHAFFETZ: Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're not at the table and, clearly, the Republicans were at the table. And it was the first time since that had happened. And so that's the kind of candid, open dialogue that I think should happen.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHAFFETZ: And what I'm advocating, a lot of Republicans are advocating. Let's tackle these issues one at a time, because there are things we agree upon. And that's what's a shame, because we can tackle those and get them done right now.
VELSHI: OK. You two guys are great. And I -- if you're the future, we've got some hope. So hang on there, OK? Jason -- Jason Polis. Jason Chaffetz and Jared Polis. Could we book two guys at least whose names didn't start with "J's"? That would have helped me out a little bit.
POLIS: Just say "you guys." "You guys."
VELSHI: Honestly. This is very confusing. One guy there is a Democrat and the other guy is a Republican. They're both freshmen. They've been blogging about their freshmen year. And they are both actually hopeful that things can get done. We're going to continue the conversation with them in just a moment. We're also going to check in with Christine Romans.
These two gentlemen were both telling us that the biggest problem out here is that people are hurting because of the economy. Well, the economy is looking a little bit better. Housing prices are not. We'll tell you about that on the other side with Christine. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. Let's continue our conversation about "Broken Government." I want to go to Christine Romans. I want to -- I'm sorry. We're going to go -- we've been waiting on this -- this press conference from SeaWorld. Let's go there right now to Orlando, Florida. This is the president and CEO speaking.
JIM ATCHISON, PRESIDENT/CEO, SEAWORLD: This has been an extraordinarily difficult time for all of us here at SeaWorld, but the grief we're experiencing cannot compare to that of Dawn's family. Our thoughts and prayers are with her husband, Scott, and all those closest to her.
I'd like to begin by announcing that we are in the process of creating, with Dawn's family, the Dawn Brancheau Memorial Charitable Foundation, a trust to support the causes she was so passionate about. We will give you details on this trust after today's event.
I'll speak briefly today, providing details of our preliminary findings of Wednesday's incident and the immediate alterations we've made to the protocols that guide our interaction with Tilikum.
In light of some of the speculation we've seen in the press coverage over the past few days, it's important that I again stress that we provide the highest standard of care, and no animal is ever subject to punishment in any form. Tilikum is no exception.
I'll also address the review of our interactive program that will be conducted not only by animal experts at SeaWorld but by some of the most respected marine mammal professionals in the world.
First, however, an update on the killer whale presentations at our SeaWorld park. As you know, all direct interactions with these animals was suspended immediately after the incident on Wednesday, in all three SeaWorld parks. This includes all show and most husbandry interactions and our dining program.
We will resume performances of our killer whale show, "Believe," tomorrow at SeaWorld parks in Orlando, San Diego, and San Antonio, but our trainers will not enter the water.
Our dining programs will likely resume early next week.
We have initiated a thorough review of all the procedures that guide our interaction with killer whales. And we have reached out to several colleagues from other marine mammal facilities to take part in our review. They are Dr. Jay Sweeney from Dolphin Quest, Bill Hurley (ph) from the Georgia Aquarium, Cheryl Messenger (ph) from Dolphin Connection, Mike Bunn from Marineland Niagara Falls, Robert Rose from the Miami Seaquarium and Mark Zitco (ph) from the United States Navy. We will make -- we will make contact information for these professionals available to you this afternoon.
The findings of this group and the changes to our interaction procedures that result from our review will be made public in due course. We will only resume in-water interactions with our killer whales after the review is complete and we have implemented any changes in procedure we feel will assure the safety of our training staff.
I would like to end with a request from Dawn's family. I will read a statement that they gave us yesterday, and I will urge all of our friends here in the media to respect their privacy and show sensitivity to them during this very, very difficult time.
"You have all heard what an amazing trainer Dawn Brancheau was, and it is true. She was the best. It came naturally to her. Being a trainer was a lifelong dream that she achieved. She loved her job, and she loved her animals.
"Her husband -- for her husband, family and friends, Dawn was so much more. She was a compassionate and loving person who lived life to the fullest. She touched so many lives. Those who knew and loved her have suffered a tremendous loss, one so unexpected that it is extremely difficult to even process or comprehend at this time.
"Our family sincerely appreciates everyone's prayers and compassionate thoughts for Dawn and her husband and family. While we understand that this tragic event is capturing headlines from across the country, at this time our family needs space and privacy to absorb our loss. We sincerely hope that the media will honor and respect this request.
"The family has made funeral arrangements to be held Sunday and Monday in Chicago. The family is preparing a memorial service to be held at Orlando at a later date. Thank you."
OK, well, thank you all for your attention. Let me introduce the members of our team who are here with us today, and then we'll take a few questions. Joining me on the right, our chief zoological officer, Brad Andrews. In the center is our curator of animal training, Chuck Tomkins (ph), and to his right is Dan Brown, the president of these three parks in Orlando.
So let's start with -- let's start with a few questions. Jason, how about you?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: Tilikum is -- is an extraordinary animal. He is a very large animal. We have the highest standards of safety and the protocols we put in place. Obviously, those are being revisited at this time. We've had 46 years of success with those protocols and were very confident up until this occasion. So, Jason, it is -- he's an important part of our team, and we're reviewing everything that we do related to handling of him and our other whale, and we'll move forward.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Around the world are looking at the program here are saying many things. But they are also saying that (OFF-MIKE) they're saying that they are wild animals. (OFF-MIKE) this animal lashed out.
ATCHISON: Let me be very clear about how we care for Tilikum. Tilikum is an important part of our overall team here. Our team at this facility, one of the largest marine life facilities in the world, is comprised of the whales and the trainers. Tilikum interacts with both. Tilikum is not separated in any fashion. He is -- he is part of the whole social network of this facility, including the other killer whales and the trainers. He is never separated.
As for the -- our operation as a park, we have created an extraordinary opportunity for people to get an up-close, personal experience, to be inspired and to connect with marine life in a way they cannot do anywhere else in the world, and for that we will make no apologies. This is something that's been very important to us and who we are as an organization, the fact that we can educate people and maybe, in some small measure, help them care a little bit more for the world we all share.
I'm going to move on. Let me go on to another question.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: We're taking one question at a time. Let me go out.
QUESTION: I have a question. (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: Let me be very clear. This incident is a terrible, terrible incident for us.
I knew Dawn very well personally. Dawn was a fantastic trainer. Dawn was a wonderful person. She was amongst perhaps the most skilled trainers we have at our company. What we are doing in the context of this investigation is looking at every piece of information we have.
I'm aware that there's all sorts of video surfacing, things that -- things that other people have captured. We're happy to look at those. They will be included in the whole context of our investigation, and really, we'll have to study all of that before we can make any findings.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Is there anything at this time to indicate the trainer may have violated protocol or made a mistake?
ATCHISON: That is far -- it's far too early to get to that point. We 're really still trying to collect information, trying to understand the whole nature and scope of the event, so it would be premature -- Louis.
QUESTION: Many say that Tilikum did not grab the ponytail but grabbed (OFF-MIKE).
ATCHISON: The information that we've -- we've obtained from the analysis so far does not involve the killer -- Tilikum grabbing her by the waist at all. Our best analysis at this point is he grabbed her ponytail.
Let me move around a little bit from the left. Yes, sir?
QUESTION: To clarify the end of your answer there, and then I'll ask you a quick question. Are you saying that there is a written policy, and can we have a copy about it?
ATCHISON: We absolutely have policies and protocols, procedures, for how we manage our animals, how we interact with them, how we train trainers and so on and so forth. Those are obviously proprietary documents; we don't share them publicly. What I will say is the investigation that we're undertaking, and particularly the insights from others that we've asked them in the industry to join us, we will make those public in due course.
QUESTION: My question, then, is people appear to be entertained with the Shamu show when there's not somebody riding on the back of a whale. Why do you feel it's important for people to be in the water with them, for them on be entertaining?
ATCHISON: You know, this -- the very core of what we deliver at this park and the connections that people make with marine animals is something very special. It's something that really only SeaWorld delivers. We accomplish that through a number of ways, and certainly the spectacle of our shows and the majesty of our animals and world- class exhibits is all part of that.
We'll evaluate everything we do and how we deliver it, but ultimately, we're very confident and comfortable with the type of product we put out, the type of experience we're providing, the type of education we're providing to people, as well.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) What was the decision or why was the decision made to bring an animal like that to work with trainers here?
ATCHISON: Tilikum -- Tilikum, we did -- Tilikum joined our system from the now defunct facility in British Columbia. He's a -- he's an extraordinary animal. He's a large animal. And, frankly, there probably wasn't another facility in the world that could accommodate him.
Having said that, he's -- we have -- he's been part of our team and he will remain part of our team. And he's -- he's a very special animal that requires special handling. Obviously, the procedures that we had in place were something we're revisiting at this point.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) I have heard things talking about problems you have with care. I've heard that there were some policies (OFF- MIKE) might have looked at that. (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: I can tell you we have no policy that addressed hair length, per se. In the context of our ongoing analysis, investigation, that's something we're going to revisit, obviously. But that was not a part of -- part of the incident.
QUESTION: Is there any indication that that might be a (OFF- MIKE)?
ATCHISON: I wouldn't begin to speculate what he was thinking, that -- for obvious reasons. What I will say is we're evaluating every piece of information we can get and trying to get to the best conclusions we can so we can make any necessary changes to our protocols and make sure both our animals and trainers have a safe environment.
QUESTION: You had indicated, sir, that the shows will begin again tomorrow, albeit in a different forum. The trainers will not be in the water while this review goes on. Do you anticipate this is going to be 30 days, 60 days? Do you have any idea how long and how significant changes might be made?
ATCHISON: I've been asked to repeat some of the questions because I understand not everybody can hear them. So, the question is, the shows that we'll be doing that don't involve water work, how long will we be conducting shows in that format?
It's hard to tell at this point. We are being very thorough in our analysis. We have invited in others in the industry to participate in this. So, we will take as long as it takes to get to the best conclusions we can possibly make to change any protocols that are necessary to change, get those introduced and so forth.
So, I wouldn't begin to speculate at this point how long that will be. But we are moving in due course.
QUESTION: Are you sure changes will be made?
ATCHISON: I'm certain we'll have some changes, absolutely. You know, at the end of the day this is -- this is a terrible incident. As I -- as I mentioned earlier, I knew Dawn very well, very well personally. She was an amazing, dynamic woman and a very, very talented trainer. So the fact that this incident occurred for the first time in our 46-year history, and it occurred with such a talented individual, absolutely, we have to look at everything we do.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Can you say what the whale itself was thinking at the time, so how do you, no matter kind of experts you can bring together, can you definitively say today is the day that it's now safe again to get back in the water?
ATCHISON: That's a judgment call, and that judgment is something that we have the responsibility to get through. I'll -- what I'll say is we have great experience in this field. We obviously had a problem. And we are now trying to revisit that. And we have invited others to give fresh eyes to this. We have a wealth of experience on how to train marine animals, obviously more than anywhere in the world. But we're hoping if we get some new eyes on this, that maybe we'll find something we missed.
Let me go back over. Sir? Yes, sir?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Is it time to retire this kind of show?
ATCHISON: No. The -- I think that would be a -- that would be a shame. This is a -- this is a -- really a wonderful animal. And him -- his participation in our shows, his engagement in our interactions and so forth is very important to his overall health and husbandry. So, he will remain an active, contributing member of the team.
QUESTION: Despite what's happened?
ATCHISON: Despite what's happened. Yes, sir.
QUESTION: What are the other trainers telling you?
ATCHISON: Our SeaWorld family is a very close-knit group, probably much so than any of you may realize. These trainers are reeling. They've lost not a co-worker. They've lost a member of their family, and they are reeling from that, as I said.
So, they are -- they are, like all of us on the SeaWorld team, they are dealing with a host of emotions associated with losing a loved one.
At the end of the day, they will be the key participants in our analysis on what we do moving forward. Because it has to be training procedures and protocols and systems that they are comfortable, so they will be an integral part of all of that.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Have any of them indicated that they won't work with Tilikum anymore?
ATCHISON: No.
QUESTION: Have any of them quit?
ATCHISON: No, sir.
Sir? How about in the back here?
QUESTION: Will there be any part of tomorrow's show that will include any tribute to Dawn? And will there be an announcement made to the public of why they are making the changes? ATCHISON: Yes, we will. We are currently editing a piece to -- to include in the context of that show. And that will be part of the show tomorrow. The first show tomorrow's at 11 a.m.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: On the whole matter of judgment call. Look, 48 years of captivity of killer whales, and you have four deaths. And yet, three of the four --
ATCHISON: I need to correct you, we don't have four deaths in our company.
QUESTION: If I understand, four deaths.
ATCHISON: That's not true.
QUESTION: How many deaths have you had?
ATCHISON: We have had in our system, we have had this terrible incident that occurred the other day and, unfortunately, in 1999, we had somebody who snuck into the park and jumped into this -- this same pool. That's what's occurred in our system.
QUESTION: But there have been -- but there have been three deaths that have been tied to this whale, to this whale?
ATCHISON: Realize the whale was at another facility before he joined ours.
QUESTION: That's what I'm saying, is we're talking about --
ATCHISON: If you can get to your question, I'll try to answer you, but what I'm telling you is we've had two incidents.
QUESTION: The whale has been involved in three deaths. I mean, how do you explain the combination of circumstances that all lead back to the same whale and the judgment call to put people back in the water with this whale?
ATCHISON: What I'll say is the events surrounding the other incidents that Tilikum was part of are quite varied. And actually, there is information available on those, and we can make that available to you.
Brad Andrews, who's actually here with me today, we can talk more about that separately.
But I will tell you those incidents and the nature of them had really nothing to do with this particular event. Those are separate interactions, separate events that occurred altogether and really are not -- not relevant to this particular altercation.
QUESTION: It's the same whale.
ATCHISON: Yes, exactly. But very, very different circumstances and events.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) When this took place, and switched it up, they walked up, some of the folks who were there said my child was distraught and saw something (OFF-MIKE) and then they were ushered out. Just leave the property, just get out.
What does SeaWorld do in that case? What have you done about that? (OFF-MIKE) The videotapes that are around, that you have, those surveillance tapes, are they in your possession, SeaWorld, or have you already given those over to the law enforcement?
ATCHISON: Let me first address your comment regarding families that were here. First of all, if you have the names of that family, we'd love to get it and contact them.
We have made every effort to -- to contact and reach out to the people who were here at that event. It's something that -- that we feel awful about. We have -- we have tried to reach those people. We've tried to -- we have names. We've contacted them. We've certainly be dealing with them all one-on-one.
If you have somebody we haven't talked to, we would love to talk to them. It's not something we want to avoid. It's something we feel awful about, and we want to do the best we can.
With respect to surveillance tapes we have, we have some video image that's associated with this event that we've shared with the appropriate authorities.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) When you say share, does that mean you've allowed them on your property to see it or you have turned it over to them?
ATCHISON: I'm not going to get into the nature of their investigation. But let me tell you --
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: We have made them available to them in any format or any style that they want, and we are completely cooperating with them in every fashion possible.
QUESTION: What did it show?
ATCHISON: I'm not going to get into any of the information that we have relative to the event today.
Question?
QUESTION: Yes. Yes.
ATCHISON: I'm sorry, somebody in the back? OK.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) ATCHISON: Well, that's a -- that's a piece of work that's currently under review, Jason. So, we will make some changes to how we interact with the animals for sure. It's something that's -- that's kind of a key part of our analysis. It's something that we're evaluating in conjunction with the other colleagues in the industry that we've referenced. There will be changes. I don't know the nature of them yet, and it really depends on the full scope of what we do.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: I guess what we all want to know do you think is do you think (OFF-MIKE)?
ATCHISON: I don't think that it's -- I think it's too premature to understand what happened at this point. We are still accessing information, analyzing what we have, trying to get our arms around the situation, so it is -- it's too premature to comment on that.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Can you tell me in your words what you see on the tape? Can you describe it?
ATCHISON: No. I will not do that. That is part of our ongoing investigation. It's part of information that we've shared with all the appropriate authorities and that's where it will reside -- Beth.
QUESTION: Prior to this incident, it was allowed, the trainers were allowed, to interact in the water, including this particular whale on some level. And I understand he wasn't necessarily planned this, but they did get into shallow water, et cetera. Is that correct?
ATCHISON: We had specific protocols in our interaction guidelines, if you will, that dealt with Tilikum specifically. It's actually the only one of our killer whales in our whole system that we have its own protocol for. That did involve tactile reinforcement with the animal and certain contact with the animal.
So, what we're currently doing is evaluating all the protocols we have, not just for Tilikum, but really all of them moving forward.
Let me go back over here. Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: When do you expect your findings of the experts? Will it be weeks, months?
QUESTION: What are expect from your findings (INAUDIBLE will it be weeks, months?
ATCHISON: You know, I'm not sure. My hunch is it's not months, but we are going to move at a pace that is -- has urgency to it, because we want to find out what happened. We want to find out what we can do about it. But we will move as slowly and cautiously as we need to to make sure we can prevent it happening again. Yes, sir? QUESTION: What do you think it has done to the long-term reputation that has been highly regarded until the last couple -- last week?
ATCHISON: I think the reputation of our organization is still very highly regarded. This is not -- this is a company and an organization that's been built over 46 years, and we have 12 million visitors who visit our SeaWorld parks every year, and plenty of fans.
This is an awful event. It's something that we obviously are -- are evaluating and looking in the mirror and seeing everything we do to change, but at the same time we will -- we will make improvements and changes and we will move forward.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: That's not a question I'm going to answer to today.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: I've seen over the years how tight-knit trainers are. I know this is certainly a time of a somber nature for all of them. If you asked them to go in the water tomorrow and keep doing what they've been doing for as long as they've been doing it, do you think anybody would say no?
ATCHISON: You know, that's a hypothetical. I'm not going to deal in hypotheticals here today. Our trainers, our team are dealing with a grave loss of a -- of a much-beloved employee, and I'm not going to speculate on hypotheticals here today.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: We were told that there were specific rules that even Dawn would know that you do not put your hair or your ponytail in the water. That that was just part of the protocol, that you just know it as a trainer. And you did not put your face near his head or your hands near its mouth. That's what we heard from someone (OFF-MIKE) who was here, has that changed?
ATCHISON: I'm not going to -- I'm not here today to speculate or share with you kind of the rules we have. We're here today to talk about the events and Dawn, to express our sympathies about her and kind of talk about how we're addressing and looking at our procedures and policies moving forward.
QUESTION: Sir, how can you say you're not here to talk about the rules? You're here to explain and have SeaWorld sort of have their own (OFF-MIKE) to explain what happened. You're telling her right now you're not here to explain rules.
How about you explain to the world that is watching you live what she's talking about, those rules? I think those are probably pretty important and for folks who are watching who want to come here, I understand that this beast -- and it's a beautiful beast -- can jump 15 or 20 feet out of the water and you have people around that perimeter, who's to say that won't happen as well?
ATCHISON: What we started this -- this discussion here today, is to share what we've learned of this event, to share what we're doing moving forward. We're not here to talk about the rules we have. The complexities associated with training killer whales and caring for animals is something that we're not going to share in a press conference here. It's something we've learned over 46 years of experience. We're going to move on. Yes, sir?
QUESTION: You talked about attendance yesterday since the incident. What's attendance been like?
ATCHISON: Attendance has been fine. We have had an immense outpouring from many, many people who enjoy visiting the park, who have shared their condolences for our loss, who have expressed support for our business, if you will. So --
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: -- no, attendance has been fine.
QUESTION: Is there something in place that (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: To be clear, the public doesn't interact with our whales in any fashion.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: What we -- what we will look at, and I'll restate that, the public doesn't interact with our killer whales. What we'll look at everything in the care and husbandry and training and exhibitor of those animals, and that will include the procedures and policies practices and factors and the environment they are in. We'll look at everything. We are taking a very open mind.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE). Will things be different and trainers will not go into the water. One of the parts of the show, it requires a kid to go into the area and touch the whale. Is that going to change? Because I know there's been something, say, for kids now. Is that something that will change eventually?
ATCHISON: The segment of the show you're talking about is actually a -- where we bring a child up and they are still in the audience. They are not in the pool in any fashion, and they're behind a rail and Plexiglas. We will continue that piece of the show. It's an impactful and moving piece of the show, and children love to participate in it.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: We have eight whales in our collection here, and 25 in our entire collection.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Mr. Atchison, earlier on, you had said that Tilikum is not isolated from the other whales. Why is Tilikum not with all of the other whales that are in this press conference behind you today?
ATCHISON: We don't move our animals for any one reason other than to socialize them and so forth. He's been with these whales since this incident. He will be back with them again. He will be other whales. He -- he -- to be very clear, he is -- he is constantly throughout any given day or any periods of time, he socializes with other whales frequently. There's been some speculation that he hasn't, and that's simply untrue.
QUESTION: You may not want to speculate on what the rules are, but you know what the rules are, we are not asking you to speculate. Don't you think you owe your patrons and park goers some explanation about this. Again, when they feel like their family members will be hurt about watching something like that and they might have to see it? (OFF-MIKE) Do you have any kind of policy about long hair about not getting too close or standing too close or getting their hands too close?
ATCHISON: What I will tell you is we are evaluating every policy, every procedure we have. The purpose of our talk here today is to not recite everything that we have in our SOP. It's a pretty complex business we have, and as much how we train and organize what we do. So, we are studying it. We are evaluating it. And we will share the results of what we change moving forward.
QUESTION: Talk a little bit about the trainers that were there immediately after what happened. Because some of the folks that we've talked to yesterday that witnessed this happen, they were trying to do everything they could, but the trainers themselves didn't initially see her go into the water. Can you talk about the experience levels of the trainers that were immediately on scene and sort of what that response involved?
ATCHISON: Sure. And to -- and to -- to add some background to this, I was one of the people immediately on scene, as what Dan Brown, as was Brad Andrews, so there were many of us there.
And the people who responded to this event performed professionally, performed heroically and did everything they possibly could have done and did it very, very well. The outcome was not successful, it was not what we wanted, obviously.
But the skill level and experience of the people here at the time, you know, there were countless people who were immediately even in the region with experience ranging from, you know, seven to 30 years with our company.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Can you explain, again, the position of trying to -- ATCHISON: Part of our -- part of our procedures when we have an incident like this involves the deployment of certain nets. I'm not going to spend today talking about the rest of these procedures, but we did have nets that were part of that effort. And they were -- the policies and practices that we have related to an extraction were handled wonderfully, and the people that handled it were brave and they handled it fantastic.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Can you explain why you have a separate book of rules for one whale? That seems -- like you said, it's a problem and you have to address it specifically. Is it because he's a male or are there other reasons?
ATCHISON: The reason we have separate procedures for this animal, he's a very, very large animal. He's a whale essentially larger than any of our other whales, if you will. So, the procedures and policies related to him have more to do with just managing his size.
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)
ATCHISON: You know, our research and conservation and education is paramount to what we do. And our organization's history, we have attended to rescues and rehabs and releases over 15,000 animals.
As a matter of fact, 1,000 just this year, because of all the harsh weather that we've had around the Southeast in particular. That is -- that is an integral part of what we do. Our focus on conservation and education, study of these animals, has produced information and background that it would be otherwise unavailable anywhere in the world.
It's -- it's paramount to what we do. It's one of the missions we serve that we take very, very seriously. Yes, sir?
QUESTION: How much bigger is Tili than the other whales? Much bigger and older. How much bigger is he?
ATCHISON: Obviously, just like people, the whales all kind of weigh differently. Tilikum is a 12,000-pound animal. We have other animals in the 6,000-pound to 9,000-pound range.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: If you were going to do a show tomorrow, what procedures do you have in place now that would improve safety for the trainers that they feel comfortable enough to have a show tomorrow? If you have procedures in place, what are they? ATCHISON: The biggest thing we're doing tomorrow, and we'll be doing from here forward until we can reassess everything we do, is we're not getting in the water with these animals. We will not get in the water with the whales, with the shows tomorrow, and we won't until we kind of conclude our work and determine if there's anything to learn from here that we can change and improve the overall safety of the -- of the experience.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: We know sometimes there's trouble getting the whales to come to the show and to cooperate, as you say. To get them to cooperate, do you have to get in the water with them? and do you anticipate there could be shows canceled because if you're not getting in the water, you can't get the whales out to the theater?
ATCHISON: No. The training we do with our -- with our animals is -- is built on a bond and a relationship between the trainers and the whales. And, we don't need to get in the water to -- to -- to work with those animals. We have -- we train for -- for interactions out of the water all of the time.
We actually have formats for shows like this, that we already do, because of the nature of the environment where we have weather problems, or we have whales that just don't want to cooperate for that day. So, in that respect, we'll be going to a format that we're very comfortable and very used to doing.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: Sir, you said you were on the scene yesterday. Can you tell us what you saw?
ATCHISON: I'm not going to share with you details of the scene out of respect to Dawn and her family. But I will tell you that the -- there was every effort made to do everything that could possibly be done at that particular event.
Yes, ma'am?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) I was at a show earlier in the day that the whales were acting unusually, that they weren't responding to instructions. Could that be cause for concern? Does that happen often during the shows?
ATCHISON: No, if you've seen our shows before, we occasionally have whales that don't want to participate in an event for a day. They don't have to. They -- they do choose to opt out of a performance for a day, and that's fine. So, that is not uncommon at all.
QUESTION: If the trainers not getting into the water, will it affect the whale shows or for other animals as well?
ATCHISON: That's for -- that's our Shamu stadiums at three parks, we will not have trainers in the water for those shows. The other venues will continue as normal, although I'll say, we've kind of assessed everything we're doing there. But those shows will continue as normal.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) -- between the trainer and the whales, as I understand, that Dawn was outside of the water when she was grabbed by Tilikum, does that mean that there should be further space?
ATCHISON: What I'll say is, you know, I don't want to speculate about the changes we're going to make, because we're just getting in to this. And beginning that work, but we will put any changes in place that are necessary to assure the safety of our trainers and our guests.
The current format that we have for these shows, where they don't involve in-water interactions, we feel very comfortable with and doing. So, we will press on that until we can complete our work for water interactions itself.
VELSHI: All right. We'll keep monitoring that press conference, turning hostile at times. That's Jim Atchison, he's the president and CEO of SeaWorld, saying repeatedly he's not going to spend today talking about procedures. Curious, because that's what a lot of the questions are about.
He described the violent death of 40-year-old trainer Dawn Brancheau a couple times. He referred to it once as "this altercation," another time as "this event." He described rescue efforts, saying the outcome was not successful.
Very strange press conference, having listened to a lot of press conferences. A bit nonspecific as to exactly what SeaWorld is going to do. Wouldn't talk about procedures. Did say, though, that the whale shows would resume tomorrow.
I'm going to take a quick break, and when we come back, I'm going to have the discussion about whether they are doing the right thing and the whole story about whales in captivity. Renowned animal expert and conservationist Jack Hanna will join us and HLN host and commentator Jane Velez-Mitchell, who wrote a remarkable column about this today.
It all happens when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We just heard from the CEO, the president and CEO of SeaWorld about the death on Wednesday of a trainer. Forty-year-old Dawn Brancheau. A veteran trainer, of a whale, after she was taken by her ponytail and held underwater by Tilikum, the killer whale there.
I want to bring in Jack Hanna. He's the director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium. He's a world-famous conservationist, he's in Florida. And in New York, I'm joined by Jane Velez-Mitchell, who is an author and host of "ISSUES" on HLN.
Jack, I want to start with you. I was a little surprised. I've heard a lot of press conferences in my time. That was remarkably defensive. I don't know if it was the accusation whether it was the whale or the trainer, and we're still waiting for the investigation as to what caused that and to find out what could have done to avoid it. I don't know if SeaWorld made any friends out of that episode we just saw. JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO AND AQUARIUM: Right. Just talking from the point of Jack Hanna, until they really find out what happens -- obviously, they may know what happened, I don't know -- but they have to make sure that they know exactly what happened before they release anything to anyone, is my take on this. However, what I have heard, she was there in what they call a dry area, which is about this deep --
VELSHI: Right.
HANNA: -- What I've heard. What I've seen many times as I visit SeaWorld and her ponytail, you saw how long her hair is, came down, and the whale came by and grabbed her hair. Some people use the word, attack, attack.
This is not an attack. I filmed the whales in the wild for many years up in Alaska and South America. When a whale attacks, a killer whale, it's like an explosion. They go up 10, 15 feet out of the water --
VELSHI: Right.
HANNA: And grab the big old sea lions, and it's over in a second. For me, from what I know -- or I know -- is not an attack. The whale grabbed the hair and, of course, then we know what happened. So, then, what else do you say to the families or anyone else?
VELSHI: I guess the issue, Jane, is that he asked at one point for privacy for the SeaWorld family. I think the -- the woman who was killed by this, her family, deserves all the privacy they asked for. I don't know that a corporation deserves privacy when this is being investigated. We want to find out whether trainers are safe, whether whales are safe and whether this kind of thing should be happening.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE-VELEZ MITCHELL": Yes. We all have compassion for the family. We all feel terrible that this wonderful woman is dead. That is not the issue.
The issue is why is this going on. He says he wants to know why it happened. I'll tell you what happened. A cry for help with an animal that cannot speak and is speaking with its fin. This is the third death this animal is involved in, and it's basically saying, "Get me out of this damn tank!".
OK, this animal was born in the wild in 1983 and was kidnapped from the wild, and for more than a quarter of a century, it's been swimming around in circles in a glorified swimming pool. Ok, that's the definition of torture, and anytime you have animal cruelty, I say follow the money.
This news conference confirms to me that this is all about the money. "Oh, let's get back in business right away. Get those shows going. The show must go on. Let's get the ticket sales in, and we'll establish this sort of window dressing of a group of colleagues who will basically rubber-stamp basically anything we decide. And we'll keep the trainers out of the water, which is going to leave the whales more isolated than ever."
VELSHI: Jack --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This ultimately is a consumer issue!
VELSHI: Jack, how do you balance the idea that some people argue that these things do educate people and sensitize them to wildlife when in the same time -- Jane says -- they compare whale in a tank to a human, perhaps a large one, but a bathtub.
HANNA: Jane is talking emotionally. She knows nothing about whales, first off. I know a little bit, a lot more than she would even know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don't take my inventory.
HANNA: Let me finish, Jane. You're very good at interrupting people. Thank you.
First off, whales are socially, mentally and physically as an animal great adapters to this type of environment, number one.
Number two, she talks about the money that SeaWorld makes. It's amazing she does not mention, doesn't mention the work that SeaWorld does with releasing and rehabilitating all of the manatee they did this year. If it wasn't for SeaWorld, probably, the manatee could go extinct. And I'll say this -- if it wasn't for SeaWorld, the manatee alone could go extinct in a matter of years.
She does not mention the millions of dollars, and it is documented if she wants documents, that SeaWorld spends rehabilitating sea turtles, whales. Who are the first responders, Jane, that people call in this country when there is a killer whale that's beached or a sea turtle --
VELSHI: Jane, you wrote about that in your column today.
HANNA: Wait -- who are the first responders? They are SeaWorld. And you are such an expert, Jane, you're such an expert --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: May I respond, Ali?
OK, there are plenty of nonprofit organizations that are doing tremendous work to try to stop the slaughter of whales. We're talking Sea Shepherd, Greenpeace, International Fund for Animal Welfare, Humane Society -- the list is a mile long, and they are working to stop the carnage against these wonderful sea creatures.
But I think it is absolutely obscene to say you're going to kidnap an animal, put it in a little tank and then you're going to act as if you're the savior of that animal. Give me a break.
HANNA: Jane, again, you are talking emotionally, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
(CROSSTALK) VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am not talking emotionally. I'm making an argument. Oh, it's not in a tank?
HANNA: Can I finish.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you saying it's not in a tank?
HANNA: Jane? Jane, can I finish?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead. Yes.
HANNA: Thank you.
I am saying that these animals socially and mentally and physically -- if something you say were in a tank, they would not eat, they wouldn't breathe, they'd be sick and they would die. Plus, 95 percent of the animals at SeaWorld are born at SeaWorld, not from the wild and that has continued.
Tili is the one left, you are correct. But all the interaction that Tili has had over the years, this animal is healthy, it's happy, it's content. Because this is what I have seen, not as a --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So are prisoners in prison. Prisoners in prison are also healthy, but they are not happy.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Let me ask you this -- let me ask you -- what do we take, Jack, from -- and you have dealt with animals, what do we take from the fact that this whale has been involved in the death of three humans?
HANNA: All right. If get back the knowing what -- the one at SeaWorld, the guy snuck into the park It's like going across a track at a racecar track and getting hit by a car. He crossed the fence, he snuck in a park. It has nothing to do with Tili or SeaWorld.
The first death, there were three whales involved. Tili was in that tank. There never has been exact reports on really what happened there.
This was an accident. Remember something, in 46 years, there has never been an accident like this or death like this in SeaWorld with over 2 million interactions. And also, 12 million people left SeaWorld last year and 92 percent said it was the most incredible interaction, the most incredible thing they have ever seen. We have one death, and all of a sudden Jane and all of the other folks come out of the woodwork and come upon us, but and yet 180 million people visited our zoos and aquariums last year, and they all love what we do.
And let me tell you something, Jane, we're going to continue to what we do and so will -- Jane, can I finish. (CROSSTALK)
HANNA: Can I finish -- one last thing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you have been going on and I would like to make a couple of points.
(CROSSTALK)
HANNA: No I'm not going on and on.
VELSHI: All right, we're going to lose Jack's signal in a minute. So wrap that up, Jack, and I'll get Jane's response.
HANNA: I'll wrap it up and let Jane have -- she always has the last answer, she's great.
One hundred and eighty million people visited our zoos and aquariums last year. They have spoken, so Jane can say all she wants to. We're going to be there, Jane, for a long, long time educating folks about our animal world from now on and into the future.
VELSHI: I want to ask you specifically, Jane --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are educating people about animal cruelty is what you are doing.
VELSHI: Jane, do you see any benefit to the zoos or places like this where animals are in captivity in terms of being able to educate people and familiarize them with the wild?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, I think this is matter of the evolution of the human species. I do not doubt that Jack loves animals, and I don't want animosity with Jack or any of the other people who are caring for those animals there. It is a question of philosophy. Have we gotten to the point in 21st century where the circuses and zoos have really become something of the past. If we want to observe animals, can't we observe animals in the wild? There are protected sanctuaries for whales that are being created around the world. They are going up in Brazil, in Chile, there's one in the Indian Ocean. So it is not as if we cannot create a safe environment for these creatures.
Do you know in the wild, these whales travel easily 100 miles a day. That puts it in perspective. Yes, it may look like a big tank to a kid who is watching a show, but for that animal, it is not a big tank.
VELSHI: Thirty seconds before we lose your signal.
HANNA: Jane, I appreciate what you are saying and thank you for what you said and I appreciate your concern for animals and love for animals. At least we both are the same with that. I really do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you. HANNA: All I'm saying is, Jane, that people -- that's why I go around the world and film. People can't do what you and I can do physically or maybe financially. That is what we are trying to do in the zoological world is let people have an experience with some of these animals that are ambassadors to their cousins at wild.
And you're right, there might be one or two parks who don't do a good job, but trust me, all of us try and do 100 percent for the animals and the people who are visitors.
VELSHI: Jack, we're going to lose you in a second. We will continue this conversation.
Thank you to both of you. You are both passionate about your love for animals, Jack Hanna, world-famous director and conservationist, zoo director, and Jane Velez-Mitchell, journalist, author and commentator and the host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ- MITCHELL."
We will continue that conversation at a later time, because those two are very passionate about this.
When we come back, we will continue on with the news that we are following today. There is a major winter storm hitting the entire northeast. Allan Chernoff is in New York, we'll be with him in just a moment to see how that city is fending with it.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. Let me bring you up to speed to some top stories that we're following here at CNN.
In Oklahoma, a college campus on lockdown. A security guard at Oklahoma City Community College reported a man with a gun in the library. The police are on the scene investigating. The school is telling students and employees to stay away for now.
In New York, Governor David Paterson will not run for another term, according to the Democratic Party -- source in the Democratic Party. He's been facing pressure to drop out after one of his top aides was accused of domestic violence. There are allegations that Paterson and state police intervened in the case. We are now hearing that Paterson will hold a news conference at 3:00 p.m. Eastern. We will keep a close eye on it for you.
In Haiti, customs is putting a tax on relief supplies or holding them up. Relief workers must pay a fee or turnover they're supplies and trust they will get it all back later with a tax exemption. Many are just paying the taxes because they can't wait. Haitians officials say they are trying to catch smugglers.
And in Washington, for years they had to convince people that their conditions even existed, but now veterans who claim to have Gulf War Illness are getting a second look at their disability claims. The Department of Veterans' Affairs is reopening their files. It could mean new compensation for thousands of Gulf War veterans.
All right, when we come back, we are going to continue our coverage of broken government. Is our government broken and if so, how can we fix it? We've got a different perspective. We've had a different perspective everyday this week, and today we've got a remarkable one. We're going to hear from the future of this country.
Stay with us.
