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Six Retiring Congressmen Give Their Opinions on the Government; Chilean Death Toll Rises to 708
Aired February 28, 2010 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Don Lemon here at the CNN world headquarters. I want to take a look at your top stories right now.
Rescue teams are searching for survivors of that colossal earthquake in Chile. The death toll has climbed to 708. And more than 90 aftershocks have hit the region, measuring 4.9 or stronger. So, its president has given the military control over security in some areas to discourage looting.
A violent winter storm ripped across Europe today, killing at least 55 people. Most of the victims were in France where hurricane force winds whipped up huge waves that flooded communities along the west coast. Now, many of the people who died drown in the rising water. At least 1 million in France are without power. The prime minister is calling a national catastrophe.
The Senate's second ranking Republican says he expects GOP lawmakers to vote to extend federal unemployment benefits this week. Those benefits are set to expire tomorrow for millions of Americans. The Senate, thus far, has failed to pass an extension for what, to many, is a financial lifeline based on the opposition of Republican Senator Jim Bunning who says it will add to the budget deficit.
The American hockey team has to settle for silver, unfortunately. They lost to Canada in sudden death overtime 3-2 at the Winter Olympics. The U.S. beat Canada in the preliminaries but couldn't pull it off again for the gold. And it looks like President Obama owes Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper a cartoon of Molson Canadian. The two had a friendly beer bet on that game.
(MUSIC)
LEMON: Now to conversation like none other you've seen before on television, at least not recently. Your lawmakers, congressmen, long time Washington insiders first taking ownership on camera for the gridlock in Washington and then giving you advice to you, Americans, the voters, saying a big part of it is your fault, too. In a moment, you'll hear all of it.
From six retiring congressmen, four Democrats and two Republicans -- soon they'll have no constituents to keep happy, no lobbyists banging down their doors, no party lines to tow. So, we ask them to shoot straight with us and they did about whether government waste and gridlock factored into their decisions to get out of the game now. Now, here's the proof, though, that many long time respected lawmakers are losing faith in the system. In the coming midterms, the usual handful of open seats from retiring incumbents is more like an armload now. In the Senate, five Democrats and six Republicans have already announced they won't seek reelection. Only twice since 1980 have there been more open Senate seats up for grabs. As of now, in the House, 33 seats will be open in November, left by 14 Democrats and 19 Republicans.
Now, to our conversation -- the problems, according to them -- the solutions, according to them, and their tough words for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: So, how are you, guys, doing?
CONGRESSMEN: Great.
LEMON: So, here's -- you know, here's what I want to know. Well, first of all, is the government broken?
REP. VERNON EHLERS (R), MICHIGAN: No.
LEMON: Why do you say that?
EHLERS: It's working.
REP. BART GORDON (D), TENNESSEE: Well, it may not be broken. It don't think it is broken, but it's certainly I don't think working efficiently.
EHLERS: No, that's the problem.
REP. JOHN SHADEGG (R), ARIZONA: In some ways it's broken and in some ways it's working. It is broken in that the people have lost trust. I think that is clear. In some ways, its working and that is it's not necessarily passing legislation rapidly the way the American people would like it to and yet the, the founders didn't necessarily intended to pass complex legislation rapidly.
GORDON: Well, I think they intended for legislation to be passed that is, if you want to say, bipartisan good. It could be helpful for the country not to be blocking legislation simply to create a -- you know, a stalemate.
REP. DENNIS MOORE (D), KANSAS: In too many cases, I have seen the House will pass some kind of legislation. It gets to the Senate and dies in the Senate because they have a supermajority requirement there to get something through.
GORDON: A good example of that is --
MOORE: The Founding Fathers intended it to be hard.
REP. BRIAN BAIRD (D), WASHINGTON: But, the word party is not in the Constitution of the United States. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's true.
BAIRD: The word political party is nowhere in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
EHLERS: It's even worse than that. Both Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were opposed to parties and they thought they have developed a system that would prevent parties and they're very -- both very disappointed when parties naturally emerged. But they emerged just because it's a convenient way to organize.
SHADEGG: There clearly is an increase in partisanship, and some of that is coming from the top. There's -- I think he's now a chief of staff at the White House and wrote a pretty partisan book, Rahm Emanuel.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: It seems like you all are pretty a passionate about this. And I hear a lot of you saying that it's really -- it's become partisan politics rather than politics of the people. Is that --
REP. JOHN TANNER (D), TENNESSEE: It's not working in Congress because Congress has become dysfunctional. And it has to do with what Vernon says with regard to the parties. I've done quite a bit of research on it. We've had a bill for sometime. We're going to have another bill called Transparency in Government with regard to the drawing of districts.
1962's case in Tennessee, Baker versus Carr. In that case, the Supreme Court of the United States, for the first time, said that congressional apportionment after a census was a just fiscal issue involving due process. After 47 years of the politicians drawing the district lines, there are only 91 districts in this place of 435 members. Only 91, 29 percent, that are within the hypothetical margin of error of a 50/50 voting pattern.
LEMON: That's you think gerrymandering --
TANNER: And so, what you have done over time, unintentionally perhaps but nonetheless you have done is you have divided the Congress so that there are now 344 members here who reside in districts outside the hypothetical margin of error of a 50/50 voting pattern, which means the most partisan elements of our society are sending 344 members here. They are naturally quite responsive to the people that elect them, which is the hard partisans on the left and the hard partisans on the right.
And so, the middle here has shrunk away and you can't go -- one can't go into the middle and make a first down. The left and right are just alike in that both of them want a Hail Mary/80-yard touchdown pass on every bill.
LEMON: Let me ask you --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- in the middle of the road now.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Let me follow up on what you said then I'll get to you.
So we're asking, is government broken, or is it become -- Washington become too partisan? But you're saying it starts at home, in the district --
TANNER: That's the root cause. The root cause of -- people have a very difficult time in coming in to the middle and getting, I call it a first down to use a football analogy, on a bill. Around here, the good is always the enemy of the perfect. And I think it goes back, the root cause goes back to the fact that an overwhelming majority of the members here are elected in party primaries, not in the general election.
GORDON: But you have far left, you have far right. They typically don't want to compromise. And that's what their constituents, you know, are dictating. And then there's just a few folks in the middle and it's hard for us to be able to really get things done.
But that's not all of it. That's one of the elements, I think. The other element that was talked about earlier is -- because we're on this Tuesday/Thursday or Monday/Thursday kind of schedule, then and then rush back to the district to be with your constituents is really not the kind of camaraderie, you know, that you don't know each other as well as they used to. You don't do the families.
You know, an example, I guess, an odd example is the second ranking Republican, Roy Blunt, a son is -- you know, younger than my daughter. And so, we talk about schools. And I wrote a letter of recommendation for him to get into the preschool where my child went and then also to the elementary school.
Well, if Roy or I tried to say something ugly about the others, our wives wouldn't let us come home, you know? But you don't have much of that kind of interaction in there.
SHADEGG: I think it is broader than that. I think the partisanship is broader than that. Jim Cooper, one of your colleagues, one of our colleagues on the Democrat side, wrote, gave a speech and then wrote a blog in which he openly acknowledged that on the issue of health care, where I spend 80 percent of time, members of the majority have been explicitly told not to work with Republicans.
Now, maybe that's a function of the partisanship in the districting process to where most of us are elected from either safe Democrat or safe Republican seats. But it's still a fact. It is a reality here where members are told.
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Hang on. Hang on. Let me ask this question: Is that true? Or is that, you know, were people actually told not to work with the opposition?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Are they being told not to work with the other party? That answer is coming up. And later, is it your fault? Is it the media's? Is it both?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is government broken? If you believe it is, raise your hand. If you believe --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And remember your opinions are just as important to us. So -- as those lawmakers. So, tonight we welcome your comments. And I'll read some of them at the end.
And the congressmen will answer the questions some of you sent to me. They weren't all nice questions. And you may not like some of their answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Now back to our "Broken Government" coverage.
Who is more responsible for the lack of bipartisan cooperation in Washington? In a recent CNN/Opinion Research poll, 37 percent blame the Republicans, 35 percent say it's the Democrats, and 25 percent said both. And according to our retiring congressmen, perhaps another choice on that poll should have been the American public.
Some of them say part of the knockdown drag out fights between the parties in Washington start back in their home districts with their own constituents. And what about the question just before the break -- our congressmen are now being told not to work with the other party?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Were people actually told not to work with the opposition?
SHADEGG: Ask Jim Cooper.
GORDON: I'm on the health subcommittee. I was not told that. I worked with Republicans on medical malpractice and we got the first medical malpractice reform that was passed that was in the bill. Now, some may have been -- I was in the thick of it, I wasn't, and actually worked with Republicans and we got something done.
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: So, where does where does transparency come in for someone to say, did this really happen, did it not really happen? Why can't you, guys, get together and say, OK, listen, I don't know who told you this, I don't know what happened, but we should be working with each other? Or find out where that came from if it's indeed true?
BAIRD: But are we doing the same thing tonight here. If the effort is to say, look how partisan the Democrats are, you can point to equal numbers of cases under Karl Rove and Tom DeLay, you now, where Democrats were locked out of the room. The question is --
SHADEGG: Absolutely. I'm not saying it's Republican, Democrat.
BAIRD: OK.
SHADEGG: I'm saying that's what you got on my comment. That's not what it meant. I'm saying that was an illustration of a comment that was published and was known here. It still it happens on both sides and it's been a tendency over time for it to become more and more intense and for it to be more and more of a blood sport, and less and less of a cooperative effort.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So, Congressman, hang on one second.
SHADEGG: Oh, absolutely.
LEMON: From this comment -- from this comment, I didn't get Republican or Democrat out of that, but is it? Is that a product of working up here that you automatically assume that when someone gives a criticism, that they're talking about someone on the other side?
MOORE: Not always. When I go home, when I speak to a chamber group, a business chamber group or a labor group, I say 85 percent to 90 percent of what we do in Congress should not be about Republicans and Democrats. It's all about taking care of our people and our country. When I say that people are sitting in their audience going like this, they are sick to death of all the partisanship up here. They want us working together for the American people and for our country.
SHADEGG: And what percentage would you say is bipartisan? Because a whole lot of the work that gets done everyday is bipartisan. It's the big stuff.
LEMON: But none of what we're seeing -- not much of what we're seeing happening when it comes to health care, when it comes to jobs, when it comes to issues like that are at the fore now. There's not a lot of bipartisanship, just as an observer myself. I don't see a lot.
EHLERS: Well, it was very frustrating to me as a Republican. I happen to be a scientist and I'd like logical thought processes. And I was -- would have been very happy to work on the health care bill. I have looked forward to voting for some type of health care bill if we produced a decent one.
When the bill finally came to the floor, I got up and spoke and said, "I'm really sorry, I'm going vote against this because I don't think it's really a product of the House of Representatives." I tried to get feedback. No one was interested in listening from the other side of the aisle. And that's not healthy.
I want to get back to your basic question that you asked a minute ago. And I think -- people talked about the death of civility. I don't think that's a problem. But we just don't socialize with each other the way they did. Jerry Ford was -- I have the district Jerry Ford used to have. And he told me that -- when I was elected that when he was elected, he moved to Washington with his family. The whole family lived here. He only went back to Grand Rapids twice a year, August recess and Christmas recess.
He was amazed that I was just going just get an apartment here and fly home to Grand Rapids every weekend because I wanted to be with my constituents. But to me, the result of that is -- I wasn't -- having been with other members of Congress or their families. I wasn't playing golf with them.
My life was centered around Grand Rapids, not around Washington. And the socialization that used to take place. You talk to any of the old-timers, they talk about the wonderful dinners they used to have together on Saturday in each other's homes, the wonderful times they had playing golf. You just don't argue with someone when you're having dinner with their family or when you're playing golf.
MOORE: You get to know their spouse and kids, and it's hard to be nasty to them. And that's exactly right.
GORDON: Norman Ornstein had a recommendation in that regard, and that we should change the calendar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
GORDON: And that we should be three weeks on where, in essence, you're with your families, probably here in Washington and then one week off where you're back home with your constituents. And that if you did something like that, then it would allow families to be together more, not only the internal families but also the members' families would have more interaction together.
LEMON: So I'm just going to ask you: how much does it have to do with partisanship, or what-have-you or not, or just working? Because now that I have a BlackBerry and I'm in touch all the time -- honestly, my days off, I really want to spend sometime off because I'm always in touch, someone can always get me. So, when I'm not working, I don't want to have anything to do with anybody who's from that --
TANNER: Don, if --
LEMON: That's me personally. So, I don't know what that -- is it just the times that we live in now? TANNER: It is. But let me go back to the point I make about gerrymandering. When people are responsive only to the primary voter, where the most partisan elements of our society was at, and quite naturally would be there to elect (ph) them. And they come here, they're not rewarded to work across party lines and to come to the middle. In fact, they are punished by the base who accuse them of not being pure enough and want to purge them out of the party because they are not pure. They're trying -- they've tried to put a parliamentary system on top of a representational system, and it does not work.
LEMON: Are you fighting against your own party in that way sometimes? In order to get --
TANNER: We do it all the time. I'm a blue dog, but I mean we get -- we get from both places. There was a fellow from eastern shore, Maryland. A great guy. He was defeated in his party primary because he became too green. He wanted to save the Chesapeake Bay, great guy. You could work with him.
And so, when people are punished for being bipartisan because of the system that we have that allows this obscene gerrymandering all over the country, this is what one of the causes. You've got go the root cause. In my judgment, all the rest of it is good. What Vernon says (INAUDIBLE) so forth, but unless you go the root cause of the problem here, I don't know how you fix it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Is the congressman right? Are lawmakers punished for reaching across the aisle? Is bipartisanship a dirty word in Washington and quite frankly, in your hometown, in your own home? Be honest. That plus -- are you asking for too much? Too much from government? Too much from Congress?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIRD: The voters are asking us to do the impossible.
SHADEGG: The reality is, the expectations of the public on what we can deliver and the intensity of the philosophical divide across the country is pretty severe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We want to get an update on the situation happening in Chile. Luckily right now, it is still a rescue effort, not a recovery effort. So, we turn now to the person manning our desk. Brooke Baldwin is joining us now.
So, last count, less than 214 people, 400 --
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seven hundred eight.
LEMON: Now, it's up to 700. But still, they are rescuing people.
BALDWIN: They are absolutely rescuing people. In fact, let's go to some video.
There was a big round of applause for these rescue crews. They were pulling this one man out of this collapsed building. This is Concepcion, and this really is sort of the nerve center, if you will, for all of this damage that we've been seeing. It's about 70 miles from the quake's epicenter.
Look over my shoulder this way. This is another story we've been watching right in the CNN Chile desk. This is an architect. This is from our partner network CNN Chile.
And this guy is essentially talking to one of our reporters saying -- you know what? We have taken a close look at one of these buildings. He knows the buildings as an architect. He's showing this rescue crew some of the blueprints of the 121 people they thought were inside the building. Listen to this -- 48 people were still inside, 8 confirmed dead but 65 have walked out alive.
So, yes, we have had some positive news coming out in the wake of this earthquake, 36-plus hours out.
I want to go one story, a final reuniting of a family. Listen to this father. I just want to pause for a moment, just listen to the tears and the hugs.
(VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Amazing. We see this father walked toward his family. We've translated the sound bite for you in English. You can hear, it's just really raw reaction as he's giving his family a hug.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AGUSTO AQUI, CONSTITUCION, CHILE RESIDENT (through translator): I was in anguish. I didn't sleep. I was desperate. I didn't see my family in the house. So, I was out all day and all night searching near the river. Nothing. And just now, we went up again and the police told us there was a child. And I thought -- I thought it could be my child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Really, Don, the other headline out of today, security concerns, looting. Some many people are scrounging around for water, supplies, blankets, food. But then others taking advantage of the situation and you -- we heard the president saying earlier saying quite simply, the scene has been this chaos -- Don.
LEMON: Yes. And, Brooke, we want to say, our teams are assembling there and we're going to bring you much, much more information as soon as they can get ready to just get in front of the camera or call us. So, we're preparing for tonight and also for a week ahead of Chile coverage.
BALDWIN: Yes.
LEMON: Brooke, thank you. We'll check back with you, OK?
BALDWIN: OK.
LEMON: You know what? We have seen the polls, the surveys. We've heard and read your comments. Believe us. Many of you are fed up with the system, with lawmakers, with partisanship, with government.
So, we took your issue straight to the people in charge. And quite frankly, we are surprised at what transpired. Six lawmakers, part of a number -- a record number of senators and representatives who are calling it quits this year. They get real with CNN and with you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: These are viewer questions, right? Ask if they are going get a job as a lobbyist when they leave. Anybody?
Someone says are they leaving because of Obama?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: No constituents to keep happy. No lobbyists banging down their doors. No party lines to tow after this term.
We're talking with six retiring congressmen, four Democrats and two Republicans. Just a few of the 33 House members and 11 senators who've already said they won't seek reelection in November.
But the American people would love to see that number much higher. A recent CNN/Opinion Research poll asked: do most members of Congress deserve to be re-elected? Only 34 percent said yes, 63 percent said no. If that many people are disappointed with Congress, are we actually too much of our elected officials?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BAIRD: It's too easy to say Congress is dysfunctional and Congress is broke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BAIRD: Too many people today are using the media to reinforce their existing beliefs and prejudices instead of looking at the other side. So, they're spending their whole time on blogs or Internet chats or whatever only with people who agree with them. And then they believe nobody else has any legitimacy on the other side.
Secondly, the voters are asking us to do the impossible. I've had town halls where a gentleman's gotten up and said, "You got to increase my COLA." The next guy gets up and says, "We got to expand veteran's benefits." The next -- and they all get cheers, everyone of these gets big cheers. The third person gets up and says, "You got to cut my taxes," big cheers. Fourth person says, "You got to lower the deficit."
So, increase spending on Social Security, Defense, cut my taxes, and lower the deficits or you folks are no darn good.
We can't do that. We've got be honest with people and say, you know what? To get this budget in balance, the Democrats have to address entitlements. The Republicans have to be deal honestly with revenue increases, because the math doesn't work out otherwise.
(CROSSTALK)
SHADEGG: I think that's an excellent point that can't be stressed too much. The reality is the expectations of the public on what we can deliver and the intensity of the philosophical divide across the country is pretty severe. And the thought that, in this town, where the two competing visions run into each other, it will be always cheery and friendly and bipartisan, especially on the big stuff, I think is unrealistic. You are going to have your major struggles when you look at issues like health care reform where you're rewriting one-sixth of the economy or when you look at a public that's saying we both want lower taxes and less spending but we want more benefits out of our government.
LEMON: Here's the thing. It sounds like --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let me make this point. I guess you're talking about being popular and being re-elected in your hometowns. But if it's good for -- sometimes you may have to educate your constituents for something that's good for the American people --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- but it may be good for other people. So maybe you don't get re-elected or you're in question of being elected. Where are the people, the old-time politicians who used to do that and saying, I'm going against this or I need to tell you what's going to work for everybody and not just be so selfish about --
(CROSSTALK)
GORDON: That's part of our job, is to mix those things together and explain it. And if we are not doing that -- we can't be everything to everybody. It is exacerbated by having election every two years where with TV commercials or direct mail, elections your opponents and with so much being spent, can take these simple -- a simple issue and make it very stark and very one-sided, where, again, most of us that are trying to, mix these four or five different issues together and be fair to everyone.
LEMON: Would term limits help our hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Hurt.
GORDON: We have term limits already.
LEMON: They set term limits for the president. He only gets two terms. But it feels like shorter. Should we be able to --
BAIRD: We need to put greater power into lobbyists and staff and you'd lose good minds. What you need, I believe -- we haven't talked about it, but this is all exacerbated by campaign spending. The amounts of money. If you're in a competitive race. You have to raise $20,000 a week every single week year round, including holidays. Why do you do that? So your side can run attacked ads against the other guy. The other guys can run attack ads. And you cannot solve the budget in 30 seconds.
LEMON: So I'm hearing lots of problems here. So give me some solutions. And you said you already have term limits. But should they be shorter or should --
(CROSSTALK)
BAIRD: We only have term limits in the sense that we only serve for two years. So we have to run every two years.
LEMON: Yes, so I'm saying, should you not be able to run? I mean, you can't run for president more than once.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Why? Do you think your job should have term limits?
LEMON: No, but I'm not representing the people in that way.
(CROSSTALK)
GORDON: We are demonstrating here that there is turnover. And as Brian said, the problem you will have is this will all be staff driven and lobbyist driven because they're the ones that will have the experience. They'll be the ones that will be here all the time.
SHADEGG: I would agree that term limits will, in fact, empower the staff and empower outside forces. And they're not necessarily a good idea. I don't know if I will get a lot of resistance on that point. But I think part of the problem, Brian talked about it, being campaign expenditures and that require so much money. I think one of the big problems is the concentration of power. In days gone by, a lot of the power that is now invested in Washington was exercised among the 50 states. We have not concentrated so much power back here that the states are so great, so everybody has to get in the fight back here. Every corporation has to have a gazillion lobbyists. Everything that affects their lives -- every doctor now figures out, wow, the government may be running every aspect of my life and how I get paid. All of this is a concentration of power. Where as, if we go back a period of time to this era when we got along better -- and maybe we were more social. And maybe we should change the schedule. I happened to agree, in a jet age, the schedule --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I think there are solutions, but I do think it is a bit nostalgic.
SHADEGG: Give some of that power back to the states. Give some of that power back to the states. So it wasn't all concentrated here, the stakes wouldn't be as high and the intensity wouldn't be as great. And you could have collegial discussions.
LEMON: But here's the thing. And by the way, I do have term limits, because if nobody tunes me in, I'm out.
SHADEGG: There you go.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: My term expires every day.
TANNER: I personally could never vote for a law that tells the American people who they cannot vote for. That's what term limits is. Even though this guy is doing a good job and he is doing a good job. He's representing you well, you can't vote for him again. I think that's wrong.
LEMON: So what if we do the same thing with the presidency, you can run as many times as want?
TANNER: The president is the executive branch. It is a little different than the legislative branch. The president has, as the president, much more power. He is one. We are 535. 435 House members and 100 Senators. It's a difference --
GORDON: That was reaction also to Franklin Roosevelt, having had so many terms. and you get a concentration of power in the presidency that it can manipulate the constituency.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Say that again?
TANNER: I don't know who would want to be president one term now, much less two.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: I want to go back to this issue for a second, briefly, about the public's responsibility.
LEMON: You said two years, because of the amount of money you have to raise. Should it be four years or should it be longer so you're not scurrying to raise so much money and to be popular? MOORE: What I would like to see are four year terms, something like that. Right now, from the time you're elected, you start raising money for the next campaign, which is two years later. And the prospect of trying to raise a million and a half, $2 million every two years, the time you spend on the phone calling people and trying to raise that money, just gets to be a real take away from what you should be doing here, and that is focusing on our jobs as congressmen.
SHADEGG: I disagree. I think standing election every two years forces us to be the peoples' House, to be accountable to people, to listen to them much more closely than our Senate colleagues are. And, yes, I think that there is a huge concentration of power and therefore a huge concentration of money in our races. But in my view, keeping us with our feet on the ground back home in the districts is one of the things that makes this institution more responsive. Right now, if the American people think the Congress isn't functional, is because they're concerned that it's not doing what they want done, if you have us stand for election less frequently, it'll do even less than what they want done.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Whether you know it or not, the way you share your frustration with Washington has a profound effect on the political process. According to our panel of congressman, a direct impact on whether a broken government can be fixed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAIRD: When people believe the best way to conduct themselves at town halls and in blogs is to just get up and shout someone down, instead of having reasonable discussion -- I've had 300 town halls and many of them, very, very good productive discussions. But when you read the kind of stuff that increasingly is on the blogs, the Internet, et cetera, it's just become a free fire zone. And it's who can say the nastiest, meanest, most obscene thing they possibly can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It is a question at the center of our past week of special coverage: Do you think that "Government is Broken." In a recent CNN opinion research poll, 81 percent say yes, but it can be fixed. 5 percent say yes, but it cannot be fixed. And 14 percent say it is not broken at all.
We're posing the same question this hour to six retiring congressman. While many of their colleagues will still be walking the halls of the capitol after the mid-term elections, they'll be heading for the exits. To these departing lawmakers, not on the inside, the "Broken Government" you're seeing needs, not only to be repaired from the inside, out, but from the outside, in.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BAIRD: If we are calling on the Congress to be more functional, we need the public to be more functions. When people believe the best way to conduct themselves in town halls and blogs is to just get up and shout someone down, instead of having a reasonable discussion -- I've had 300 town halls and many of them, very, very good productive discussions. But when you read the kind of stuff that is increasingly on the blogs and Internet, et cetera, it's just because a free fire zone, and it's who can say the nastiest, meanest, most obscene thing they possibly can, and not give fair due to discussions and facts. We have got somehow address that and encourage people to say -- it's one thing to say, I profoundly disagree with this person's position, here is why, here's an alternative. That's another thing than calling somebody a list of names that I can't repeat or you get a $500,000 fine.
LEMON: Let me -- I will let you make a point. I want quick answers so I will ask you -- this will be the bonus round.
(LAUGHTER)
I'll let you make your point and then I want some quick answers.
MOORE: All right. I think that people -- the people out in the country expect us to be civil and respectful and try to work together to get things accomplished for our country and for our people. They understand, I understand, all of us understand, we can have honest differences. But still, we should try to be civil and respectful and work together.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
LEMON: You guys agree. So listen, I will ask you, you can get together and do a show of hands. Is "Government Broken"? If you believe it is, raise your hand.
If you believe --
TANNER: How about fractured?
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Does it need a repair job?
MOORE: It needs reform here in terms of how people get here.
LEMON: OK.
BAIRD: There need to be process reforms. Both sides -- both sides have brought bills up with less than 24 hours to read, thousand- page bills. Both sides have done it. Both sides bring up rules in the House where the other side gets no amendments. No amendments on health care bills. Our side did is on the health care bill. There was one amendment. No Republican amendments. That was wrong. The Republicans did the same thing to us on the Medicare prescription drug bill. That was wrong. Those procedural reforms have to happen.
GORDON: I think the consensus here is that Congress is not broken, but it's not working as well and it should. And I don't think you could get one reason for that. We would have a variety of reasons and a variety of different kinds of cures. But the public deserves better.
LEMON: What do you think the main reason, is it partisanship? What's the main reason? Do you -- you said the government is fractured and in need of reform, right? Is that --
EHLERS: Well, basically, we disagree with each other a lot. I think that's healthy.
LEMON: Ok, so then what is -- what is --
EHLERS: But from the outside, some people interpret that as a constant fighting, a lack of civility and so forth. It isn't. We get along pretty well with our colleagues, no matter which party.
LEMON: That's the way it was set up.
EHLERS: We are here to debate with each other. We are here to present our own point of view as strongly as we can in doing the best job of representing our people. That may look to some people like an argument or a fight or something, it isn't. We're here to represent our people.
(CROSSTALK)
SHADEGG: I think the intense concentration of power has caused partisanship to get worse. And I think Brian is right. What that means is there are all kinds of procedural abuses, where the minority and minority's rights are not honored. It's been done by Republicans to Democrats, Democrats to Republicans. And it leads to an intraction (ph), to us not being able to get the work done, and it focuses on the divide rather than the points where we can come together.
LEMON: OK. If I can get to one -- if you can health care, if you can say partisanship or whatever you think it is, not listening, what do you think the biggest problem with government is now?
SHADEGG: It needs to be reformed to where it is accountable to the people. Too much is hidden.
LEMON: OK.
EHLERS: I would say one our biggest problems is that people -- a good many people want more from the government than they give to the government. And so they are very unhappy with us. They want more health care and more benefits of some sort or another.
LEMON: Lower expectations of what can be done?
TANNER: The gerrymandering of the districts and how members are elected.
GORDON: I think the process that has developed where Democrats and Republicans can't sit down together and try to work out compromise and try to find common solutions to the problems facing us. And again, a lot of that starts with John premise that too many come with a partisan background.
MOORE: People look at what congress is doing as far as spending goes and its out-of-control spending. I belong, a couple of here belong to a group called the blue dog coalition. We believe that most -- we should living -- our country should be living within a budget like most American families do. And I think, individually, most members of Congress feel that way as well.
BAIRD: We have to conduct ourselves with honesty and integrity, and that means telling the truth, even if it is difficult and even if it costs us our election.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Absolutely.
BAIRD: We also need reform of campaign finance laws.
LEMON: So you are saying many people in Congress don't tell the truth even if --
BAIRD: I think the pressure to pander to one side or the other, typically your own side, even if you know that the math isn't there, the reality is the other side has some good points. We've got to say to people the hard truths, especially now.
SHADEGG: We're pressured to get re-elected at any price.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: The pressure to get re-elected at any price. Is it impeding reform, recovery, jobs, the economy? Hurting you where you live? Does being loyal to a political party trump all of the issues? Our retiring Congressman says looks like it does these days. And by the way, they say, they're only following your orders or you'll vote them out.
So the questions, why do you stand for it, as Americans?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TANNER: The American people, I think, need to take a check. And because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they are any less patriotic or care or love this country any less.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And at the top of the hour, we wrap up the week of CNN investigations on "Broken Government" and what can be done to clean it up. Jack Cafferty has a special report for you, ahead at 8:00 p.m. eastern.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Checking some of your top stories right now. Rescue teams are searching for survivors of that massive earthquake in Chile. The death toll has now climbed to above 700. Complicating rescue efforts throughout the day, more than 90 aftershocks, measuring 4.9 or stronger. A State Department spokesman says Chile has requested U.S. medical help and communications assistance, including satellite phones.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak is calling for new sanctions against Iran to stop its nuclear ambitions. He tells our Chritiane Amanpour, the sanctions will not be successful unless Russia and China back them. Israel, the U.S. and many other countries say Iran is moving closer to building a nuclear weapon, a charge that Iran denies.
Perhaps the first lady's next big health initiative needs to be her husband's. Doctors say President Obama hasn't kicked his smoking habit, takes anti-inflammatory meds to relive chronic tendonitis in his left knee, and should eat better to lower his cholesterol. Sounds pretty grim, but actually, the president's physician says his annual check-up shows he's in great health otherwise. And there's nothing that should prevent him from fulfilling his term.
Up next, why are so many lawmakers leaving Washington, choosing not to run again? Do they feel powerless these days? Will the answer come from a bold question many of our viewers wanted me to ask?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Someone says, are they leaving because of Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We also want to tell you, at the top of the hour, we wrap up the week of CNN's special investigation, "Broken Government," and what you can do to help clean it up. Jack Cafferty's special comes up tonight, 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have been talking with six retiring congressmen this hour about what's really going on in Washington. Why the gridlock? Why are so many of them choosing to leave, refusing to run for re- election? So far, this year, 44 incumbents say no more to Congress. In the Senate, five Democrats and six Republicans already said they won't seek re-election. And as of now, in the House, 33 seats will be opened in November, left by 14 Democrats and 19 Republicans. It's an extraordinary number.
So with nothing now to lose, the six congressmen answer our big question, honestly, what's the deal with Washington these days?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: What's interesting to me, because all of you guys had careers before, you know, clinical psychologists, scientists, whatever. Why are you concerned about having this job? There are other jobs. Seems like you guys are in a position of anyone, some of the smartest people I've -- resumes I've seen, to tell people what the actual truth is and that's not happening.
EHLERS: Maybe that's why I'm leaving.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Yes. That's why -- so why -- so why --
BAIRD: There's truth to what Vern is saying. The price of telling the truth is increasingly high. You get hit from both sides. Centerism is tough, being willing to say to your own party, I disagree with this party position is a tough position. There will be consequences for that.
LEMON: Is that part of why all of you are leaving? Is there some frustration in --
SHADEGG: Clearly, frustration in trying to get things done.
EHLER: Absolutely.
GORDON: That and the time constraint. I compare the voting card to a dialysis machine.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: OK. Listen --
GORDON: I want to be with my grandchildren, I want to be and need to be, and I can't while I have this job.
GORDON: Also, the enormous amount of money to be raised for campaigns and the enormous amount of money spent against you in campaigns, which is taking one sliver of your record and oftentimes misrepresenting it.
LEMON: OK, let me ask you a couple of questions. These are viewers' questions. Ask if they are going to get a job as a lobbyist then when they leave. Anybody?
EHLER: If I did, it would be as an unpaid lobbyist.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
MOORE: I've been a lawyer for 28 years. Been in Congress 12 years. If I become a lobbyist, that's strike three I think.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: So an unpaid lobbyist for what?
EHLER: Good causes.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
TANNER: That's important. His point is well taken. You can be a lobbyist and work on very good projects here.
LEMON: So it's not out of the --
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: No.
LEMON: OK. Can Congress ever become a vital tool for the people instead of individual politicians and public interest greed? That's the question.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Yes, absolutely.
TANNER: There are plenty of examples of it.
SHADEGG: Although there is some individual interest, too much and too much greed.
LEMON: Why are they so unwilling to find common ground to govern on? I'm truly ashamed of representatives and pig-headedness?
BAIRD: Well, actually, people -- many of us -- you're looking at a group here that's actually pretty willing to do that. I'm not --
(CROSSTALK)
SHADEGG: I think that perception is wrong. I think, in point of fact, we do work together. And I think we just agreed that some substantial proportion of the legislation that goes through here, 65 percent to 85 percent, is bipartisan and does work on both sides of the aisle. The high-profile stuff is where there are intense disagreements philosophically on what's the right course to take? You're going to debate those. You're going to disagree about those. That's not a personal peak. That's a matter of principle for a lot of us.
LEMON: OK. If government is broken or if there are so many issues facing the American people, why quit now? Why give up?
EHLER: I'm not giving up. I've been here 16 years. I think I've had more than my share of time representing the people. And I'm 76 years old, 11 years past normal retirement.
(LAUGHTER)
You know, why not give someone else a chance to do this job?
LEMON: Finally, someone says, are they leaving because of Obama?
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: No.
EHLER: Absolutely not. UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Under no circumstance.
MOORE: I don't think anybody says that.
TANNER: I'm leaving because of William and Walter, two 5-year- old boys, to spend time with them.
EHLER: I've got nine grandkids I didn't have when I started.
TANNER: It's a lot of personal -- I want to agree with something John said. Increasingly in the country there seems to be, from the wings, this inability to grant to one who disagrees with them the same purity of motive and patriotic verve they claim for themselves. And that is -- it bleeds over here to some degree, because that's who we hear from. But the American people, I think, need to take a check, and because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're any less patriotic or care or love this country any less. It's called freedom.
LEMON: Everybody's shaking their heads yes.
MULTIPLE CONGRESSMEN: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: On both sides.
UNIDENTIFIED CONGRESSMAN: Well said.
LEMON: Thank you.
TANNER: Thank you.
SHADEGG: Very informative.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: That was a very informative discussion. They were very civil. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. I actually ended up liking every single one of them.
Your feedback has been amazing. Some of you sent questions. I read them. Let's read some of it now.
"Don, we need the unemployment extension."
We're talking about the possibility of it not being extended.
"Can't believe Senators flipped the problem of government on the people. Must have forgotten about their vote on Iraq war, corporate bailout."
I think what they were asking everyone to do including themselves is to self-assess, which is always a good idea.
"Your segment is great, Don. Too bad more people in the U.S. can't be as civil to one another as these retiring Congressmen." Agreed.
"How much money are they leaving with? Many came to Congress with nothing but -- nothing and now they're multimillionaires. They broke the government. And robbed the bank."
Very good dialogue. Thank you, very good comments.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here, 10:00 p.m. eastern.
Meantime, a Jack Cafferty File, a special report on Broken Government begins right now.
