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Democrats Try Procedural Moves to Pass Health Care

Aired March 16, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Time now for your top-of-the-hour reset. I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM.

It is noon at the U.S. capital where Democrats consider a procedural move to pass health care reform without another house vote.

It is 11:00 in North Dakota where the Red River is rising, and the communities are long. The water is getting ready for the flood.

It is 9:00 in California where thousands of teachers learn they may be the next victims of the state's deepening budget crisis. Let's do this, let's get started. Another twist in the looming showdown over health care reform, could House Democrats approve the legislation without actually voting on it? Democratic leaders are considering that tactic as they scramble to line up enough votes. Congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar live from Capitol Hill. Brianna, if you would, explain this procedure to us.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, my low-tech explanation.

HARRIS: It works.

KEILAR: I think it's the only thing that works at this point. So here's what the House has to work with. They have the Senate health care bill, right? But they don't really like it. There's a lot of things in here they don't like. So what they want to do is pass changes to this health care bill. But you have a lot of vulnerable Democrats who are saying to their Democratic leaders, who are really just trying to wrangle all of their Democrats into doing this, we're in a tough spot to pass this. There's that so-called corn husker kickback, which is that sweetheart deal worked out in the Senate with Nebraska to pick up the tab for their Medicaid. There is this expanded tax on those so-called expensive Cadillac plans. And so what Democratic leaders have worked out is a way to kind of get around this. They would roll the Senate bill into what's called the rule, Tony. And I'm going to staple this together.

HARRIS: OK.

KEILAR: Just so you know it's good and stuck in there.

HARRIS: Yeah.

KEILAR: And so what would happen is, this is normally, this is like a preliminary vote. It really doesn't do anything besides saying or most of the time it doesn't, besides saying we're going to debate for this long. And by rolling it into the rule, once everyone votes on the rule yes or no, assuming it passes, then the Senate bill would be deemed passed, deem and mass. And then Democrats could emphasize the changes bill and this gives some political can cover to Democrats. But Republicans are hitting them so hard on this idea. They say -- this is really the development in the last hour, Tony. Republicans say in the next week they're going to force a vote on whether this very tactic should be used.

HARRIS: OK. Let's talk about the reaction here a little bit. You just hit on it a moment ago. Republicans absolutely incensed in some quarters. Let's have a listen to what one lawmaker said on the House floor and then I've got a question for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. VIRGINIA FOXX (R) NORTH CAROLINA: I serve on the rules committee. They're planning to bring a rule that will say if you vote for the rule, you voted for the bill. That's never happened in the history of this country. And again, it undermines the rule of law and the American people will not stand for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Never happened before in this country. Brianna, is that true?

KEILAR: It's actually this idea of demon pass has been used dozen of times. So specifically saying that demon pass has not been used, that is not true. It's been used for a number of things generally that whoever is in power or whoever wants to pass something, they need political cover on. For instance just in February, it was used for increasing the debt ceiling which is something lawmakers don't really like to do, but they kind of have to do and Democrats and Republicans have used it for both that. I think what was interesting was we also heard from Congressman Mike Pence who's in the Republican leadership. He said look, doing it this way, inserting it in the rule insults the intelligence of the American people, because, hello, the Senate bill is in there and they're voting on it. So the question is, how do Americans feel about it? Are they going to feel that this is on the up and up and it's OK? Or are they going to feel like it is trickery the way the Republicans say it is.

HARRIS: We're asking that very question. We are doing it on the blog. You can send us phone calls and you can send us I-reports. We're doing that right now on Capitol Hill, Brianna Keilar for us. Brianna, that's well done. Thank you.

Opponents of the Democrats health care reform bill making their voices heard today. They held a code red rally urging Congress to kill the bill. Critics say the legislation amounts to an expensive government takeover of health care. Speakers at the rally accuse Democrats of trying to pass the bill by creating confusion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHRYN SERKES, DOCTOR PATIENT MEDICAL ASSOCIATION: You know, it's a funny thing. They keep throwing so of these high fallutin (ph) words at us like reconciliation and they hope that we won't understand what that means, those $10 words. You know what's so funny is that these presidents seem to have trouble with the little two-letter words.

CROWD: No.

SERKES: That's right, what part of no doesn't President Obama understand?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: OK. The growing crisis in U.S.-Israeli relations tops our look at other big stories today. A top U.S. envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell, now delaying his trip to the region. Sources say the White House is awaiting a response to its demand that Israel reverse a plan to build more homes in disputed east Jerusalem. So far Israel is not backing down. Meanwhile, violence today near those settlements. Palestinians and Israeli police clash during a protest over the reopening of a landmark synagogue.

The top U.S. military commander in Afghanistan predicts 2010 will be a difficult year for U.S. troops. General David Petraeus tells the Senate Armed Services Committee the fighting will likely get harder before it gets easier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: The civil military campaign on which we have embarked in Afghanistan will unfold over the next 18 months. And as many of us have observed, the going is likely to get harder before it gets easier. As we seek to expand security for the people and to take from the Taliban control of key areas, the enemy will fight back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: This is hard to believe, tough to take. This next story, a Woodstock, Georgia man jogging along the beach in Hilton Head is struck and killed by a plane. Police say the pilot was making an emergency landing and apparently Robert Gary Jones didn't hear the commotion because he was listening to his iPod. This photo from I- reporter Steven Walsh. His girlfriend saw the whole thing. She says she thought at first the pilot was performing an aerial stunt and the plane went into the water. The pilot and the passenger were not injured.

Red River rising, sandbagging is going on full force right now in Fargo, North Dakota, Moorhead, Minnesota and other riverside communities in that area. Let's bring in Chad Myers is here. He is keeping a close eye on the flooding. There's a lot of good work going on. It sounds like for good reason Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: The IRS will hunt you down. The three most feared letters in the alphabet, our random moment of the day. The tax man hand delivered a notice to Harv's metro carwash in Sacramento. The IRS said the small business owed back taxes and the agency demanded every single penny. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON ZEFF, HARV'S METRO CAR WASH: Came to the carwash, handed my manager a bill. And it was from the Internal Revenue Service. They said we need you to pay up your back taxes because the amount was four cents, four pennies. Once I found out the amount, then I started to actually chuckle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Four cents. Did you hear that, Elizabeth, Four cents.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Did he dig into his pocket and pull out four pennies?

HARRIS: Well, yeah, sure. Think about it for just a second. You wonder how many of your tax dollars the IRS spent to collect four cents. Actually, in answer to your question, with interest and penalties the bill came to $202.35. No random amount, just a random moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: As part of health care reform, Democrats want to close the so-called doughnut hole. It's a gap in the current Medicare system that costs many seniors thousands of dollars in prescription drugs. CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here with us. If you would, let's start here. What is the doughnut hole?

COHEN: The doughnut hole is this crazy system that senior citizens find themselves caught in. If you can imagine someone caught in a doughnut hole, it's sticky, it's not good. And contrary to what you might think, it's not very sweet. Here's what happens with the doughnut hole. Medicare will help senior citizens pay for their pharmaceuticals, for their prescriptions, if you spend anywhere between 0 and $2,830. So up to $2830, you're good. They're going to help you a lot. You're not going to have to pay very much. Once you've spent $2,830 and one penny, you're stuck. You end up paying for any amount over that. You're in trouble there. And then, once you spend $4,550 on prescription drugs, then they'll start helping you again. For that period of time where you're in between those two numbers, you are stuck. There's no program to cover you, as it were.

HARRIS: So is there a program in the health reform bill to cover it, to close that gap?

COHEN: There is. We looked through all 2,000 something something pages of it and we found a provision that says that they're going to start closing that hole so that people who are paying that huge amount of money won't have to. But it's going to take 10 years. It will take 10 years to close it. Every year between approximately 2011 to 2020, in there, they'll gradually make it better and better. It's not going to happen overnight.

HARRIS: Can we try to do this. We're trying to explain it every day, a piece of the legislation as it's working its way through this maze of a system.

COHEN: Absolutely. We'll go through that bill and we will take one thing a day. Explain it every day, that's even a good title. I like it.

HARRIS: I like it. Elizabeth, appreciate it. Thank you.

So we asked you earlier to give it to us straight. Are you for or against health care reform as it's being shaped now and why? Here are at least some of your comments. Richard says, I'm completely against it. How can our leaders even consider a vote when the majority of them don't know the details or cost? Is that good leadership? Elizabeth says, hey, if it doesn't work, they can repeal it later. But I think something has to happen. The world won't explode.

Jerry writes, I am adamantly opposed to it. I do agree that someone needs to put some controls on the greedy insurance companies, but the government control of one-sixth of our economy is not the answer. And Wendy J writes, as a small business owner, I support health care reform with a public option included. With rates rising as much as 30 percent per year, we had to drop health care to our employees because insurance companies require small business to pay for at least half of employees coverage. And don't forget if you have any comments at all, you can send them to my blog. There's the address, cnn.com/tony.

The stimulus, is it working? Last hour we brought you a big new survey from the "Wall Street Journal" economist and what they are saying that the stimulus is actually helping the economy. We're asking if it is actually helping you. Josh is here with that. OK Josh, according to the survey, what has the stimulus done?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting. Let's remind everyone in case they missed it last hour, that the "Wall Street Journal" talked to 54 really respected economists all over the country. By far the majority said overall, the stimulus is doing good things for the country. Overall it's helping. This is one example right here. They're saying that they believe on average, added 1 percent to economic growth in 2009. So they are saying they believe the stimulus has done some good stuff already. Just like you were just doing, Tony, we reached out to viewers because in a case like this, (INAUDIBLE) it's really significant. The stimulus is supposed to help you get a job, supposed to help you at an individual level.

Let's look at a few of what we got right here at our blog, cnn.com/tony or cnn.com/josh. Let's go straight to these quotes. First one that we're going to bring you is from Mark who writes us this. In my city, the roads are a joke. Factories are still closing and more out of work. The stimulus did not help. Fran says, no, no, no, all the money the government is spending is hurting us all. How ashamed we should be leaving this mess to our grandchildren. But, we heard from Maaku who says, I don't have a job yet and it is because the economy is bad. The stimulus package has helped the economy. It takes years to rebuild. Also one more here. Joan writing us, I see the putting America to work signs on a long stretch of the freeway, workers and construction very much in evidence.

And we're hearing from you every which way. Let's go to the screen behind me for a second. I'm just going to show you we got more here on Facebook. Fred is writing here, I work for a small manufacturing company that supports the mining industry. We've heard seven people in the past three months and have plans to hire five more. I got this tweet here from Omar. He says the money helped me get some potholes and sidewalks fixed. So Tony, certainly we're hearing from people on both sides. Some people say the stimulus money really has gotten to them in some ways, changed their lives. Others say I've seen nada

HARRIS: And the other side of this to keep in mind is the government has done a lot more than just this stimulus.

LEVS: It has. In fact, the same economists that the "Wall Street Journal" spoke to -- let's show more on this -- when asked what has made the biggest difference in the economy, they're not saying it's the stimulus. They're talking about low interest rates. The central bank buying up a lot of those Treasuries and those mortgages, the toxic assets. Also, the bank stress tests that are supposed to help make sure banks get into better financial condition. And if you want to see where your money is going, all of this is public money. Keep in mind we're paying interest on all of these borrowed dollars. '

Cnn.com/stimulus, check this out. This is pretty cool. This shows how much money the government has pumped into the economy in various ways and it's a massive figure, $4.7 trillion. We break down for you where it went. It went into bailing out the financial industry, helping out with the auto industry, helping out with credit cards. And over here you have this area, which is the stimulus. The big picture obviously the money that the Fed pumped in in various ways Tony is just a little piece of that pie.

HARRIS: All right, Josh, appreciate it. Thank you. We're going to get to some breaking news here. I believe we've got pictures, too. This just in to CNN. A Mexican tour bus has rolled over. This is Campbellton, Texas. You see helicopters over the scene. Emergency choppers and probably television choppers, as well. This is on interstate 37. The Texas department of public safety telling us now that two people are dead and at least 18 are injured. Take a look at this scene, as you can see, people have been able to get out of the bus. In some cases, but again, as many as 18 injured, two fatalities. A Mexican tour bus has overturned. This is on highway -- interstate 37, highway 37 near Campbellton, Texas. And these pictures provided to us by our affiliate KSAT. Take a look at this scene, a different view of it. (INAUDIBLE) You can see that the tour bus has actually rolled over on its side. A number of emergency vehicles are on the scene. Again, 18 people injured, and the word is -- the early word is that there are two fatalities associated with this tour bus rollover. We will take a quick break and come back with additional information as soon as we get it. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Let's get to our top stories right now and our top story right now is this roll over accident of a tour bus, a Mexican tour bus has rolled over in Campbellton, Texas. This is very near San Antonio, the accident taking place on interstate 37. The Texas department of public safety telling us two people are confirmed known dead and at least 18 are injured. You can see for yourself the people who managed to get off that bus. My guess would be a bit of a triage area has been set up there. Our understanding is emergency personnel are on the scene as well. We will keep you posted, updated with the latest information on the rollover bus accident, Campbellton, Texas.

And other top stories now, new housing construction goes down. Government figures show it dropped almost 6 percent last month. But the industry's still doing better than last year at this time. The same is true for building permits, down from February, but higher than a year ago.

And the announcement everyone is talking about. Tiger Woods says he is ready to play golf again and that he will start, wow, at the most prestige use tournament of all, the masters. That's coming up in just three weeks. Woods has been away from golf since December when reports surfaced about his numerous affairs. Another check of the top stories in 20 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Building up America one small business at a time. Tom Foreman has been on the road keeping an eye open for success stories. He makes a stop in Alabama where one business owner is finding ways to keep young talent from fleeing to bigger cities.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Tony, Montgomery has an enormous history. We all know that. I'm standing not far away from where Jefferson Davis took the oath as the president of the confederacy and just steps away from where Rosa Parks boarded the bus to begin the Montgomery bus boycott. Right now what this town is trying to do is focus beyond that, to look into the future and that means looking toward the young.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): On a highway north of Montgomery in a building you would hardly notice, Jerry Monroe (ph) is growing a heck of a business.

JERRY MONROE: Every day you've got to make something happen. We see opportunities and because we develop everything ourselves, we just -- you know, we start hammering on those ideas.

FOREMAN: How important do you think that is in a difficult time in the economy?

MONROE: Well, it's critical.

FOREMAN: His company, the Online Commerce Group, specializes in Internet sales of custom made cushion covers, drapes, pillows. But what it's really doing is fulfilling a dream Jerry has had since college, of succeeding in his own state of Alabama. Is this good business?

MONROE: It is an absolute blast.

FOREMAN: Keeping young talent from running away to the big cities is a serious matter, especially in hard times. The Chamber of Commerce formed this group called Emerge to foster leadership, success and community among young professionals, whom they know have different needs and wants from older workers.

HANNA CHADLEE, EMERGE MONTGOMERY: I think excitement, activities, night life, especially night life.

JASON GOODSON, EMERGE MONTGOMERY: Another issue that a lot of people don't really normally think about is education and things for kids.

ASHLEY BRADLEE, EMERGE MONTGOMERY: I want to be able to just really know that my voice is heard.

FOREMAN: So the city is expanding its entertainment venues, offering more activities, improving schools and Mayor Todd Strain says it's all to keep young talent around.

MAYOR TODD STRANGE, (R) MONTGOMERY, ALABAMA: All of those things taken together really do offer the opportunity. But we have just begun to fight.

FOREMAN: This is not all about the future. Jerry Monroe has found immediate rewards.

MONROE: We've got young people that don't have a lot of experience with business, but they have a tremendous amount of knowledge about the Internet, about technology. They've lived it.

FOREMAN: And about that community.

MONROE: How people communicate.

FOREMAN: Exactly. By tapping that knowledge, he's more than doubled his business almost every year since it started six years ago, creating 30 jobs, along with a reason and a way for that talent to stay.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: And this is something we're seeing in many communities, this focus on saying if you can't keep the young people, you can't keep your talent, because that's where all the new talent is coming from. It's their key to building up America. And what works here might work in a lot of communities out there. Tony?

HARRIS: Boy Tom, appreciate it. Thank you.

A California teacher coming up, facing a layoff. Thousands of other teachers in California in her same position. One teacher's story next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's see, "no margin for error with U.S. debt." That's the lead story at cnnmoney.com. If you want the latest financial news and analysis from our terrific team, it's just a click away at cnnmoney.com.

Let's get you to the New York Stock Exchange right on the head. Three hours into the trading day. And the Dow is up 23 points. Doggone it. The Nasdaq, I forgot already. The Nasdaq's up -- OK, the Nasdaq is up 10. We're following these numbers for you throughout the day right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Pink slips, as you know, are flying around inside California classrooms. The state has been hit hard in the recession and it has been brutal for teachers. Ines Ferre joining me from New York.

And, Ines, honestly, just how brutal are we talking about here?

INES FERRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're talking about pretty brutal. Twenty-three thousand teachers in California who received a pink slip yesterday. Now, these are preliminary notices of a possible layoff. The state has until May 15th to determine how many of these teachers it will definitely cut. Last year, 60 percent of the 26,000 teachers who had received pink slips were let go.

And now, Tony, California has seen their public education budget cut by about $18 billion over the last two years. And another $2.4 billion in cuts that are proposed for this year. And in many districts, I mean the class sizes are just ballooning. You've got more workload for the teachers. And it's not just that teachers that are being effected, of course. There's school employees like custodians, assistants, that they're seeing their jobs cut as well.

HARRIS: Yes. But here's what I don't get. Why give out a pink slip and then take it back?

FERRE: OK. Well, by state law, teachers have to be notified by March 15th in they face a layoff. Now, then a final staffing decision, that's made by May 15th based on budget that's passed. Now, the worst case scenario, Tony, is that all of these teachers would be let go. The best case is that they be kept.

Now, some, though, will tell you that there's, in the meantime, there's a little bit of political theater that's going on. I mean it's a way -- some union people will tell you, it's a way of putting pressure on the unions to give into furlough days, salary reductions, early retirement, that kind of thing. HARRIS: OK. All right. Ines, I know you're going to come back in just a couple of minutes here with an update on the Detroit school situation.

FERRE: That's right.

HARRIS: Let's do this now. Let's get to one of the faces behind this story. Mona Davidson was one of the more 23,000 California teachers and staff members who got a letter saying you are likely out of a job. She spent the last five years teaching at Indio High School and building the journalism program there. She's also the communications director for the local teachers union and she joins me via Skype.

Mona, good to see you. I'm going to get to your story in just a moment here, but here's what we're getting in terms of some of the numbers here. K through 12 schools suffering about 60 percent of the state budget cuts. I keep hearing California schools have been decimated by the cuts over the past two years. What's the evidence of that? What does a decimated education system look like, feel like? What's the teachers' experience like in a decimated school district? And then the students' experience? I know there's a lot there, but take your time.

MONA DAVIDSON, TEACHER: I think one of the things that one way to look at it is the books, textbooks. That right there is a prime example. My textbooks are seven years old. We were scheduled for a textbook adoption. We can't have it. That's all been suspended. So the information that is coming along and students are being tested on, we don't have to provide for them unless we scramble around trying to make sure that we can get that information for them through the Internet.

HARRIS: So textbooks is one. Is there another example?

DAVIDSON: Other examples are, one of the AP classes at the beginning of the school year this year had over 50 students in it in a classroom that was made for 35 to 40 max. The other thing that I think is heartbreaking, for teachers, who have more and more students crammed into their classes, trying to do the best they can do bring everybody to a proficient level and watching daily -- losing them. You know, watching them just slip through the cracks because we just don't have enough time to get to all of them and help all of them. Try as you will, it's just not possible to do.

HARRIS: Right. Hey, Mona, let me get to a couple of other points here. So you received a layoff notice. My understanding is teachers can receive these letters and then have the layoff rescinded. Ines just pointed that out. Has that happened the you, that whole process? Has that happened to you before?

DAVIDSON: No. No. But I know teachers who have had that happen for the last three years.

HARRIS: OK, so

DAVIDSON: You know, each year they get it and, fortunately, they get hired on another school site or are called back to their school site. Maybe not in the same position they were in, but sometimes they don't know until the day before school starts that they're going to be brought back.

HARRIS: Gotcha. What do you think is going to happen in your case?

DAVIDSON: Uh --

HARRIS: Just no way to know?

DAVIDSON: I'm praying. I'm hoping -- my principal has assured me that he's going to fight for all of us at our school site. But there's only a limited amount that he can do.

HARRIS: Gotcha.

DAVIDSON: And so I'm hoping.

HARRIS: All right. Let me -- let's dig a little deeper here. California ranks 46th nationally, is my understanding, in per pupil funding. Make the argument for me that more money would dramatically improve the performance of your students.

DAVIDSON: Well, in the first place, I can give you a personal example of how smaller class sizes help.

HARRIS: Please.

DAVIDSON: My daughter started out in a classroom of, I think, 36 kindergartens. Now she'd been in an all-day pre-k type of situation for two years prior to going into kindergarten. She goes into this, you know, class (ph) of thousands and tanks, completely tanks. She, you know, decides she doesn't want to read, she doesn't want to learn, she doesn't want -- you know, she wants nothing to do with education.

HARRIS: Right.

DAVIDSON: Then they pass 20-1 and she went into a 20-1 classroom with an absolutely fabulous teacher named Phyllis Stone (ph) and she became one of the top readers. She's now in her freshman year at Sarah Lawrence College there in Bronxville, New York.

HARRIS: Nice. Nice. Nice.

DAVIDSON: Yes. So it turns her around being able to have that kind of individualized attention. So for people to say, oh, you know, class size reduction doesn't mean anything. It does. And I saw it happen. I saw the change.

HARRIS: Mona, appreciate it. That's good. I appreciate the personal account. And we will -- look, send us an e-mail and keep us posted on your situation, would you, please?

DAVIDSON: I certainly will. Thank you very much.

HARRIS: Yes, yes, yes. This is -- our pleasure. You know, major change also in store for Detroit's public schools. An ambitious plan to overhaul the school system is being ruled out. Ines Ferre is back with that story from New York.

Ines, what are you hearing in terms of some of the details on this?

FERRE: OK. Well, last night the emergency financial manager, Robert Bobb, laid out the road map for his five-year plan. Forty-five schools will be targeted for closure. Those schools will be named tomorrow. The plan also calls for building new athletic facilities and a new facility for special needs student. Now the purpose here is to increase graduation rates from 58 percent to 98 percent. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT BOBB, EMERGENCY FINANCIAL MANAGER, DETROIT PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Our plan is too ambitious, but the bottom line is that we have lagged behind for far too long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FERRE: Now, Detroit's Public Schools district has also been plagued by its inability to manage its finances in 2008. Robert Bobb, who you just saw that was speaking, was brought in, in part to fix this. He also highlighted his accomplishments as far as financial audits and investigations go to see where the money has gone and to also root out wastes.

Tony.

HARRIS: How much of this situation in Detroit has to do with declining enrollment and the deficit?

FERRE: Well, I mean, they definitely face a deficit and they recently announced outsourcing inclusively of buses to a private company, a private out of state company. They're trying to cut every which way possible. But they also have a shrinking student population with some 85,000 students today expected to fall to 56,000 students by 2014. Tony, they're competing with charter schools. And, look, before the start of the academic year, 29 schools were closed. Now, another 45 are being targeted.

HARRIS: All right, Ines, appreciate it. Thank you.

And a programming note here. We will talk with former Education Secretary Rod Paige about school budgets getting slashed because of the economy. And he'll weigh in on the latest push for education reform. That's tomorrow during the noon hour, this hour, Eastern Time, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Updating a top stories now.

A Mexican tour bus has rolled over near Campbellton, Texas. This happened on Interstate 37. The Texas Department of Public Safety tells us two people are dead and at least 18 are injured. We will bring you additional information as soon as we get it.

In Fargo, North Dakota, here we go again. Flood waters are threatening that city, neighboring Moorhead, Minnesota and other communities along the Red River. The river is expected to reach major flood stage overnight.

Tiger Woods heads back to the golf course next month. He says he'll return to the game at the Masters. Woods put his career on hold four months ago because of his sex scandal. He says he still has got a lot of work to do in his personal life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: All right. Let's do this. Let's head to the CNN "Help Desk." Our Stephanie Elam is getting advice on how to get debt free and when the retire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Time now for "The Help Desk," where we get answers to your financial questions. Joining me this hour, Doug Flynn, a certified financial planner and founder of Flynn Zito Capital Management, and Donna Rosato, a senior writer at "Money."

Thanks so much for being here.

All right, the first question comes from Soulemane. "I am overloaded with debt, credit cards and other loans. I have paid my minimum balance on my credit cards for more than three years. How can I get debt free and what type of program do you recommend?"

What do you think, Donna?

DONNA ROSATO, "MONEY" MAGAZINE: Well, a lot of people are struggling with credit card debt these days. The best thing to do when you're thinking about how to get out of credit card debt is, first of all, stop using your credit cards. You know, stop digging that hole.

ELAM: The basics.

ROSATO: It's hard. If you really feel tempted, you know, maybe just don't take them with you when you're going out. Some people go as far as putting them in a block of ice.

But then you want to start paying them down. And what -- the best -- there's two philosophies on how to do it. We usually recommend, start with the highest interest rate credit card first. Those are the cards that you're going to be paying the most interest rate and over the long term. If you can start paying that down, you'll pay less interest over the long term. If you have a number of cards and a couple with small balances, you can get a real psychological boost by wiping out a couple of those smaller credit card balances.

So I also feel like it's a lot of a behavioral issue. Stop using the cards. Start paying them down. If you can knock out of bunch of them, it's going to be easier to tackle that debt. ELAM: Yes, that's true, if you get somewhere into it.

All right, our next question is from Lawrence. He writes, "I'm 55 years old and in good health. Do you have a formula for knowing when to take a lump sum payment versus a monthly pension check?"

That's a dicey one, Doug. What do you think?

DOUG FLYNN, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER: Well, there's no magic formula, but when someone's 55, the first thing that comes to mind is that that's probably a reduced pension number. You usually get a reduction for not waiting until 60 or 62.

But whatever the number is, one of the places you can go to compare how that -- what you're going to get from your provider versus what's out there is to go to immediateannuities.com. That's a good place. You can punch in how much your lump sum would be and what you could get elsewhere as a comparison.

The problem I see is, he really needs to get the information on if he waited until 60. If he waited until 62 or whatever his Social Security time is, because retiring at 55 in these days is a very aggressive goal and you might be getting a very low payment for the rest of your life.

And, really, if you have all of that information, what I would recommend is you probably take all that info, along with your longevity history and your family, and go to a qualified financial planner who specializes in this. They can crunch all the numbers for you and come up with what's the best solution for you and your unique situation. It's a little more complicated than a magic formula.

ELAM: And it might just give him the incentive to actually just let that money sit there until he gets to the right age.

FLYNN: Yes, he could roll it over and continue to defer it, which is a lot another good thing to do.

ELAM: All right. Well, thanks so much, Donna and Doug.

"The Help Desk," all about getting you answers. So, send us an e-mail to cnnhelpdesk@cnn.com. We might just have the answer to your question right here next week. You can also pick up the latest issue of "Money" magazine. It's on newsstands now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: So what's everyone talking about on Internet today? Feds on FaceBook, the king of pop and the pope in trouble. We're back with Ines Ferre right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Time for a look at some of the stories generating buzz on the Internet. It is what you're talking about today. Once again, Ines Ferre from New York. OK, lady, what are you finding there?

FERRE: OK. Well, Tony, you have to be careful who your friends are.

HARRIS: Yes.

FERRE: Especially on FaceBook. Law enforcement agencies are going undercover on social networking sites to snoop on suspects. The Justice Department says it's legal and there are some rules it has to follow. But it wouldn't say what those rules are, Tony.

HARRIS: Uh-huh. OK, I'll have to remember that. There is a lot of money, I understand, we've been talking about it a little bit here, coming to Michael Jackson's estate.

FERRE: Yes, that's right. Even in death, Michael Jackson is still the undisputed king of pop. His estate just signed a deal with Sony Records. It's the biggest recording deal in history, reportedly worth $250 million. And that should help his family pay off some of Michael's bills, his debt.

HARRIS: Yes, there he is, Michael Jackson. All right, "Beat It."

Another story I know you're following here. The catholic church under scrutiny again. This time in Europe. What is the pope's involvement in this new scandal?

FERRE: OK, let's go directly to some sound. Here's how our Vatican senior analyst put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: The details of this is still emerging, but here's what we know. This priest came from another German diocese, the Diocese of Essence. In that diocese, he had been accused of sexually molesting at least three young men. He was then sent to the archdiocese of Munich for a period of therapy, which was sort of the practice in the church at the time. This was '80-'82. That happened with the knowledge of then Archbishop and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FERRE: And, Tony, the Vatican says the pope wasn't aware of the details of the case when he approved that transfer.

HARRIS: I suspect we'll learn more about this over the

FERRE: That's what's hot on the web.

HARRIS: Yes, yes, in the days ahead.

Ines, appreciate it. Thank you.

Crunch time for Democrats on health care reform, but one wavering lawmaker wonders why his phone isn't ringing. Call me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Crunch time for Democrats as they scramble to line up enough votes to pass health care reform. Some wavering Democrats are feeling the pressure, but one lawmaker in particular is wondering why his phone isn't ringing. The story now from CNN's Jim Acosta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. GERALD CONNOLLY (D), VIRGINIA: I think, at the end of the day, health care is probably going to pass. Narrowly, but pass.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And will you be there pushing it over the edge?

CONNOLLY: We have to see. I don't know yet. I really haven't made up my mind.

ACOSTA: Really?

CONNOLLY: Yes, really.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Really? Freshman Congressman Jerry Connolly, who voted yes on health care reform last fall, is now saying quite publicly he could be a no this time around, which makes this next tidbit from Connolly all the more shocking.

ACOSTA (on camera): Have you gotten a call from the president?

CONNOLLY: I have not.

ACOSTA: Does that surprise you?

CONNOLLY: Yes.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Connolly is torn between a president he wants to support and a health care bill he doesn't really like. But Connolly says he doesn't want to miss what he considers a once in a generation chance to fix health care.

ACOSTA (on camera): I get the sense what you're saying is that if I go down because I voted for health care reform, so be it.

CONNOLLY: Yes, I -- you know, when you begin in public life, if you don't say to yourself, there are some things I'm willing to lose this seat over, then you, frankly, have already sold your soul.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Connolly is facing a rematch in the fall with Republican Keith Fimian. Fimian would love to run against the guy who voted for health care before he voted against it.

ACOSTA (on camera): So, in your mind, he has no choice but to vote yes?

KEITH FIMIAN (R), VIRGINIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Well, I think so. I mean, if -- what are the reasons for him voting yes in the first place and how has that changed now that the American people don't want it?

ACOSTA (voice-over): All this week, both sides of the debate are turning up the heat on wavering Democrats. At a health care rally with President Obama, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, who says he's a no, was feeling the pressure.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Vote yes?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A couple -- did you hear that, Dennis? Go on. Say that again.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Vote yes!

OBAMA: Hear that?

CONNOLLY: I think we might have passed health care reform, frankly, if we had more pressure coming from the White House last year, not less.

ACOSTA: Congressman Connolly wonders if he'll ever get that same kind of White House nudge, whether it be from the president or one of his more persuasive advisers.

ACOSTA (on camera): How about Rahm? Rahm Emanuel?

CONNOLLY: No, I've never heard from Rahm.

ACOSTA: Really?

CONNOLLY: Yes, really.

ACOSTA: Nothing in the shower? I'm kidding.

CONNOLLY: Maybe I should spend more time in the -- in the House gym, I don't know.

ACOSTA: That's, of course, a reference to Emanuel's alleged recent run-in with former Congressman Eric Massa. In the meantime, counting the votes on health care this week will be a tricky task. Some fence- sitting Democrats are refusing to take a public stance on the issue until the second the vote is called.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Ah, the man is back. And we've got him. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Always a pleasure to see you, Tony. Thanks so much.