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Healthcare Reform Battle Continues; 32 Democrats to Vote "No"

Aired March 20, 2010 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thank you very much for that, Wolf.

President Obama makes a promise to the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're a day away. After a year of debate, after every argument has been made by just about everybody -- we're 24 hours away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: More from the president and why he believes that at this hour.

If you're in the Midwest right now, pay attention. An unusually late winter blast is taking hold, where is it going next?

An apology from the Pope tonight about priests accused of sexually abusing children. Is it enough for victims and their families?

Plus, gone too far?

(MUSIC VIDEO)

LEMON: First, some called for this racy Lady Gaga and Beyonce video to be banned. Now, they're going after their concerts too and not just hers. We'll talk about a new call for a concert rating system.

Good evening. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for joining us.

It's really crunch time. We can't say it enough on Capitol Hill for health care reform, that bill. Now, the stakes are so high and the votes are so close that President Obama personally went to Capitol Hill this afternoon to appeal directly to reluctant Democrats -- and there are many of them. There he is you saw him there on Capitol Hill earlier.

And here's a live shot of the Capitol right now. The sun is going down in Washington, but they are still at work and they're going to be there until late in the evening. And we're going to be here with you as well.

And by CNN's count, I want to tell you -- more than two dozen House Democrats are still undeclared here. Meaning, they have not said how they will vote, have not said how they'll vote. Only six of them need to vote "no" for the bill to die. Six, only six need to vote "no" for the bill to die.

And right now, there are 32 Democrats who have joined with 178 Republicans to oppose passage of the bill as it now exists. Now, that is new number, just in to CNN. If a total of 38 Democrats vote "no," the bill is defeated.

We've got it all for you. There our players right there -- Dana Bash, our senior congressional correspondent, and Mark Preston, our senior political editor. They're going to join us in just a moment.

And I understand, we're getting some information, Dana. We have some breaking news you and Mark may have to confirm it for me.

All right. Let's move on, though, because I want to show you guys this.

President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress have a lot riding on this vote, the outcome could affect, even define, the rest of his presidency. Mr. Obama was upbeat but he was impassioned as well, as he spoke to the Democratic Caucus about the historic before them just a short time ago. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Don't do it for me. Don't do it for the Democratic Party. Do it for the American people. They're the ones who are looking for action right now.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That was really just a short sound bite of what the president had to say, but that's how his speech went. And there were some interesting moments there.

Ahead, you'll hear the extended excerpts of his comments so you can judge the content for it yourself. We're going to -- we're going to play it for you because we want you to hear it. It almost sounded like a victory speech. I don't know. Is it -- is it a little bit too much, too soon? We shall see.

We're learning more details tonight about exactly how this process will unfold. Tomorrow, we're going to tell you. Democratic sources tell CNN that there will be three separate votes and there they are.

Let's go live to Capitol Hill now and you see our Mark Preston and our Dana Bash. They're both there. Mark, of course, is our senior political editor. He is in our Washington bureau and Dana Bash is live on Capitol Hill.

Dana, OK, listen -- so, here's what I'm getting here. Jim Matheson, a Democrat of Utah, now changed his vote to "no." He voted yes on the House bill in November. Now, is that -- that's 32 "no" votes in the opposition's column? DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That sounds about right if that's our count. That is one "yes" that went to "no." I think we might have another one as well. But I think more went the other way. We have had more in the past 24 to 48 hours, Democrat who is actually voted "no" on the House health care bill in November and are now going to switch to "yes."

But I wanted to set the scene and just show you what's going on, as we speak, Don. I'm down the hall from the House speaker's office. And I want to widen out and just show you, you can probably see a group of people, some of our colleagues and competitors down there, standing outside of Nancy Pelosi office.

They're doing that because right there, there is a last-minute meeting of House Democratic Leaders. And what are they doing, they're going over line by line, name by name, where exactly the votes are.

Now, they're not telling us where their vote count is, but that is what is going on at this 11th hour, the night before this very important vote. They have been very confident today. The House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said that they -- point blank -- that they have the votes now, but they want to be sure and they're leaving nothing to chance. That's why they're doing that --

LEMON: Dana, they're saying they're having the votes and you're seeing these behind door meetings. And, I don't know, do you think Democrats -- they may be just keeping, you know, I guess making confident face to the public, showing the public confidence. But when you keep hearing -- oh, there's another "no," there's a "no," it was a former "yes." I mean, that doesn't bode well, it appears.

BASH: It could be. It could be. I mean, people, as I said, there have been Democrats switching both ways over the past 24 to 48 hours. So, I think, on the other side, I think there have been -- there were a number of Democrats who voted "yes" in November who are in very, very tough political races, and you heard the president allude to that today who actually surprised me and surprised many other people around here who decided when they announced that they were actually go to stay "yes."

So, it has kind of broken both ways. But for the most part, we'll see tomorrow if they're right. Maybe if they're not right, maybe -- they'll have egg on their face. But for now, they are saying that they are pretty confident --

LEMON: OK. Listen, really quickly, I want to get Mark in here.

Mark, before I move on to talk about another, some incidents that happen, talking about these protests. Do you want to add anything to what Dana had to say about this last-minute -- late I should say "no" vote?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, I think, what it shows right now is what Dana is showing right behind her is that they are counting every vote. They're making sure that they're lined up. If President Obama loses the vote tomorrow, Don, it would be devastating to his presidency. It would be devastating to the House Democrats and Senate Democrats quite frankly.

Look, I just got off the phone with a leadership aide, they say they know where the votes are and they have them.

LEMON: Hang on one second, Mark. Hang on. Let's go back to Dana.

What we take that shot? Dana, what are you seeing there?

BASH: He just walked by. It was Chris Van Hollen, a member of the leadership, actually. A pretty important member of the leadership when it comes to the politics because Chris Van Hollen is in charge of making sure Democrats got elected.

LEMON: OK.

BASH: He's one of the many people walking out of Nancy Pelosi's office in that meeting I was just telling you out.

LEMON: Yes. I was looking at the preview monitor and our producer is saying, something is happening behind Dana.

Mark, I'm sorry about. I think I get the gist of your point. But here's what I want to talk about with both of you, Mark, and, Dana.

We have the video of steelworkers in western Pennsylvania. They showed political strength. They're in favor of the health care overhaul reform. They were saying do the right thing. They're talking about Jason Altmire. He's the Democratic representative -- they want him to vote for it.

Then we have, on the flip side, swarms of tea partiers on Capitol Hill made this final effort to kill the bill. They spent the day chanting "Get your hands out of my pocket" and then booed the president as his motorcade when down.

Mark, so, apparently there's some things that went on that were not so savory at least -- those are the allegations when it comes to some Democratic representatives.

PRESTON: Sure, and I think Dana probably can speak more directly to it, Don. But what we saw today was protests here in Washington, D.C. And as you would have with any group, we heard some slurs directed at some members of Congress which clearly is inappropriate. I think we have to be careful and note that not all of the opponents of health care reform actually believe this, or would act this way, or all of the proponents of health care reform would act that way.

But, again, it really shows you vicious the debate is. And, Dana, really can probably speak more to --

LEMON: Yes.

PRESTON: -- what was said out here on the streets today.

LEMON: And I think, Dana, you got some -- you got response from all of the members who are supposedly involved, right? BASH: Right. We actually have something new to tell you about. Last time you and I spoke, we spoke about John Lewis, the civil rights icon, who said that a racial slur was hurled at him by protesters and Congressman Barney Frank who was openly gay, and another slur was hurled at him.

And since then, we heard about Congressman Emanuel --excuse me, Congressman Cleaver -- Emanuel Cleaver, and he said that he was actually spat on. He released a statement and he specifically said that he was walking to the Capitol to vote when a protester spat on him. And his spokesman said the congressman would like to thank the Capitol police officer who quickly escorted the other members and him to the Capitol and diffused the tense situation.

I did not see this and we didn't witness the other -- actually, one of the incidents with Barney Frank. Our producer Evan Glass did witness.

But the bottom line is, we have seen this -- the intensity that we have seen for many months. We have seen that come right here to the capitol. And it was a nice day today. Members were walking outside, back and forth, from their offices to the Capitol, and they were followed, and they were taunted, many of them, particularly the Democrats -- kill the bill, kill the bill, and unfortunately, in some cases, a lot uglier.

LEMON: OK. So, listen, just so our viewer will know, and this was Emanuel Cleaver says that he -- people spat at him, that's what he said. John Lewis -- Dana, correct me if I'm wrong -- the N-word, is that what we're talking about here?

BASH: Correct.

LEMON: Yes.

BASH: That's what he told our congressional --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Barney Frank, the F-word which rhymes with maggot, right?

BASH: Correct.

LEMON: Right. OK. Dana and Mark Preston, thank you. We're going to see a lot of you throughout this weekend here on CNN. We really appreciate it.

And, Mark, we may see you a little bit later on the show. Dana, go get ready for the Gridiron Dinner, OK?

BASH: OK.

LEMON: Send me some tweets. Thank you.

BASH: Will do.

LEMON: Now, listen, I want to continue to tell you guys about this bill. If passed and signed into law, health care reform will affect Americans for generations to come. Many of these provisions won't kick in for years, others however will be felt almost immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): As a vote comes down to the wire, President Obama takes his message straight to the people, touting the immediate benefits of his health reform bill.

OBAMA: Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with preexisting conditions will be able to purchase health insurance -- some for the very first time.

(CHEERING)

LEMON: The full impact of the bill won't take place for several years. In the meantime, uninsured Americans with preexisting health conditions will get temporary coverage from a $5 billion fund. This coverage would also include children with preexisting conditions. Young adults would also be immediately covered under their parents plan.

OBAMA: And, by the way, to all the young people here today -- starting this year, if you don't have insurance, all new plans will allow you to stay on your parents' plan until you are 26 years old.

(CHEERING)

LEMON: And right away, people with serious illnesses, including cancer will no longer face coverage caps from insurance companies. And if people feel their insurance company unfairly denied them coverage, they can appeal through an independent process. And right away for the elderly, when they exceed the limit of drug coverage under Medicare Part D, they'll get $250 a year to help plug the gap.

OBAMA: Do not quit, do not give up. We keep on going. We are going to get this done. We are going to make history. We are going to fix health care in America with your help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: We have a quick reminder for you, our special health care vote program -- it begins at 9:00 a.m. Eastern tomorrow morning. We will be covering it all day long, as a matter of fact, our Wolf Blitzer is going to step in here in the afternoon and helm the coverage from Washington. Of course, Wolf knows everything about politics in Washington.

So, you want to tune in to CNN if you want to get the right information, the correct information and the best information. So, stick with us, up to the minute updates and analysis from the best political team on television.

At least one congressman says he is not going to vote the way his constituents want him to and that is risking a chance at re-election. Why would he that? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOSEPH CAO (R), LOUISIANA: It's not wrong to vote against what my constituents want, but it is wrong to vote against my own conscience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Representative Joseph Cao joins me live -- next.

(MUSIC VIDEO)

LEMON: OK. You know, we've seen this video. We heard about the controversy. But there's much, much more going on behind this. This has sparked something else.

Has music gone too far? Are the images that you might see at concerts too much? We're talking about concerts now, not videos, too much for your children and some young adults?

A talk about the push to have concerts rated, you know, like PG, X, you know, NR, as it is in television, they want to do the same thing for a concert.

Also, weigh in on this and also other subjects, other stories that we're reporting or some that we're not reporting if you have any ideas. Logon to the social networking sites. We'll get your comments on the air.

Don't go away, we have much, much more for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Welcome back, everyone. This is our continuing coverage of the health care reform bill and debate that's going on in Washington. If you're one of those representatives sitting on the fence, what do you do? Vote with the people who elected you or go with your conscience?

Well, Congressman Joseph Cao of Louisiana was the only Republican to vote for the bill last time around. This time, he flipped.

And our Brianna Keilar asked him why. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You represent New Orleans, overwhelmingly Democratic, overwhelmingly in support of this health care reform plan. Are you going to pay at the polls?

CAO: If I were to vote against the health bill, possibly. I don't know.

KEILAR: Do you think it's wrong to vote against what your constituents want?

CAO: It is not wrong to vote against what my constituents want. But it's wrong to vote against my own conscience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. Representative Cao is joining us from Capitol Hill to talk about his vote. We're going to see and talk to him in just a minute.

And from Philadelphia, we have Marjorie Margolies. She's a senior fellow at the Fels Institute of Government and a former congresswoman. She served one term and then she lost reelection after casting the final vote for President Clinton's tax hiking budget. So, she would know about this and you probably remember when President Clinton took on health care and then what happened then.

So, I want to say thank you to both of you for joining us.

Representative Cao, before I asked you why it changed, what worried you and all of that stuff? What's going on behind the scenes now since you were there and you're in on the process -- what can you tell our viewers about what's happening now in a push to either be for or against this bill?

CAO: Well, there are a lot of people on the Hill. A lot of conservative members of the public who are here pushing for a "no" vote, and, obviously, there are members of the administration who are calling questionable members to push for a "yes" vote. So, there is a lot of pushing and pulling on both sides.

LEMON: Is it -- and is it, how can I say this? If you can speak up because it's very loud there, I'm getting a lot of ambient noise. I know that you're soft-spoken. Some people have been saying, it's strong-arming and they question the tactics. Can you speak on that, Representative Cao?

CAO: Yes. There is a lot of pressure being exerted upon members to vote one way or the other. But, again, the representative must vote based on the needs of the district as long as the vote does not go against his or her core moral beliefs. And I believe that we have to defend our core moral beliefs irrelevant of the political cause.

LEMON: OK. So, that gets me to this. So you're voting no to this, your vote is a no. When it was a yes the last time, right?

CAO: My vote is "no" because the Senate bill has less strict -- a less restrictive language on abortion than the House bill. The House bill has a much stronger language prohibiting the federal funding of abortion.

LEMON: It's just abortion, because last time, I believe your comments were that you represented a district in New Orleans. I think most of them are Democrats or maybe minorities as well. And you said what was in this current bill that you believe helped your constituents. So, is it a one -- is it one issue for you that's make-or-break? This one abortion issue, is that the most important thing to your district now?

CAO: I have made this public on a number of occasions over the past year, and abortion issue is an issue that I cannot compromise. I believe that abortion is absolutely a moral wrong. And there's no way I can compromise on the issue.

LEMON: OK. I want to go now to Ms. Margolies here.

You -- Ms. Margolies, you wrote an op-ed in the "Washington Post" on Thursday, telling talking about your fateful vote 18 years ago. You say, quote, "I was pressed on all sides my constituents opposed, my president needing a victory and Republicans promising my demise. I voted my conscious, and it cost me. I am your worst-case scenario. And I'd do it all over again."

So, that was very strong words from you. And you went on and on and on. So, it's a heavy political price to pay. All right. People --

MARJORIE MARGOLIES, SENIOR FELLOW, FELS INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT: I also think -- I also think it's not a zero sum game.

LEMON: Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

MARGOLIES: It's very possible that you can vote against it and have your constituents turn on you anyway.

Anyway, it just -- I think we've been discussing health care for decades now and this is -- this is a beginning. There are things in the bill that are strong. You just had a piece on it, which I think was a good summation, and there are things that may not be, who knows what the CBO conclusions are.

But I think that the important thing is that -- you know, when you're sitting in a political, when you're sitting in congressional office, people don't call in when they're satisfied. They call in when they're against whatever it is. The screamers, the people outside of the Capitol, are the ones who are anti. A lot of good things on this piece of legislation.

So, I think that these are the votes where you have to go in and quietly close the door and decide what's the right thing to do. And I think in this case, I think those people who came in -- especially with the president -- have to back him and also the midterm elections. I mean, the same thing with Clinton, midterm elections are going to be challenging no matter what.

LEMON: OK. Listen. Listen, I hate to call you up. Let me jump here because, again, time constraints. And I really want to drill down on this, and I was trying to do this in earlier show with the two doctors, to explain the process. Because most American people, they know about the process, you can read, but until you're involved in it, it becomes a whole different thing for you.

MARGOLIES: Correct.

LEMON: Now, what the gentleman from -- the congressman or the representative from Arizona was trying to explain earlier to me was that this is sort of part of the process to get it done, and then every single bill, no matter how big or how small, usually ends up being tweaked here.

MARGOLIES: That's correct.

LEMON: So, what do you say to that about the American people learning about that? Does that make a difference you think in the process or how they should process this?

MARGOLIES: It should. It should. And I think that the American people have to figure out how they can trust their members and let them go down there and not necessarily say what they want to hear, say what they need to hear.

LEMON: OK. Real quickly, a yes or no, do you think it's going to pass, Ms. Margolies?

MARGOLIES: I do.

LEMON: OK. What about you Mr. Cao?

CAO: I don't know.

LEMON: You don't know.

All right. Thank you very much. Hey, listen, we really appreciate you guys. Great information.

Representative Cao, we know that you're very busy, so we appreciate you coming out.

We appreciate you, too, Ms. Margolies, as well. But, you know, he's in a middle of this whole health care thing. So, he's a lot going on, a lot on his plate.

Thank you, guys. Good luck to you.

MARGOLIES: You're welcome.

CAO: Thank you.

LEMON: You know, it was a fiery speech and, you know, if you missed it, you can hear more of what the president had to say in just a few minutes. You really want to see it.

Plus, the Pope offers an apology to the faithful and a rebuke to Irish bishops. An update on the sex scandals that have shaken the Catholic Church -- coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: There's a lot of news going on besides what's happening in Washington. And here are some of your top stories right now.

Pope Benedict XVI says he is truly sorry for the scandal that has rocked the Roman Catholic Church. In an 18-page pastoral letter made public today, the Pontiff said he was deeply disturbed by the revelations of a decades-long cover-up of child sexual abuse by priests. Now, the head of Ireland's Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, who faces questions himself about the alleged cover-up, has also apologized. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL SEAN BRADY, ARCHBISHOP OF ARMAGH: It is evident from the pastoral letter that Pope Benedict is deeply dismayed by what he refers to as sinful and criminal acts and the way the church authorities in Ireland dealt with them. He says, "The church in Ireland must acknowledge before the Lord and others serious sins committed against defenseless children."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The Pope says priests who abuse children must come forward, take responsibility and answer to the demands of justice.

A 16-year-old boy is under arrest in southern New Jersey. He's accused of going on local Wal-Mart's public address system last Sunday and ordering all black people to leave the store. The teen faces charges of harassment and biased intimidation. Wal-Mart is apologizing to its customers and says it has updated its intercom system to prevent this from ever happening again.

He helped found the modern environmental movement. Former Interior Secretary Stewart Udall died today of natural causes. Under his leadership in the 1960s, the Interior Department expanded protection of public lands and helped push through key legislation, including a bill to protect endangered species. He was 90 years old.

President Obama makes his final push, his final argument to push wavering House Democrats into the health care "yes" column.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: After a year of debate, after every argument has been made by just about everybody -- we're 24 hours away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Twenty-four hours away. Will it work? Was it enough, just a day before that big vote?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Jacqui Jeras -- developing weather news, what do you have?

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, we got a flooding situation going on across the Upper Midwest, and snow across the Southern Plains. So, those are our two top weather stories of the day today, Don. And we'll start out with Fargo, North Dakota, where the Red River continues to rise, expect it to crest tomorrow afternoon below record levels but well above major flood stage, the dikes and sandbags are holding that river back and hopefully, they'll stay that way.

Pictures now from Oklahoma City, where the snow has been coming down throughout much of the day today. Our iReporter Patricia Smith sent us these beautiful pictures, but streets are extremely slick, she says.

Take a look at the radar map and you'll see the snow coming down from Oklahoma City, on up towards Kansas City. Snowfall accumulations over six inches especially on the north side of town, but we'll see slightly less in Oklahoma City.

Eastern parts of the country, looking at a beautiful day today, but as that storm moves eastward, expect rain and thunderstorms for your Sunday -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Jacqui, thank you very much. We'll see you a little bit later on, Jacqui Jeras.

You know, it's not just politicians. Doctors are at odds over health care, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is, is that if it's unsustainable, if it's unaffordable, we cannot spend more money on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. If you didn't see this in our 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour, it really was a heated debate. And it went on a long time and we didn't get a chance to ask all the questions we wanted. But we're going to ask your questions and more that we wanted as well. Doctors on both sides of the issue weigh in right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. You want to see this next segment -- coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Look, this isn't the racy part, to some people these images are simply entertaining, to others they go way too far. Still ahead, a new music controversy, should there be ratings on concert tickets?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. So look at that, it's a beautiful shot at the Capitol. And I don't know if you can classify what's going on or qualify what's happening there as beautiful, but it's the nation's work, America's work being done inside those halls right now. We have people stationed there and we are watching it all for you. The president visited that place today and I want to tell you if you're just joining us, right. I just said it, President Barack Obama went to Capitol Hill today to speak directly to Democrats.

At stake is the fate of a health care reform bill that has been more than a year in the making. Some say it's really been happening since President Clinton was in office. A make or break vote is set for tomorrow, and so far 32 Democrats have said that they will break ranks with the president and vote against the bill. That's according to CNN. And just six more in defeat is assured. Six more, defeat is assured. I think it's 38 to defeat this. So listen to the president as he makes his last-minute pitch for passage today on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... but even before this crisis, each and every one of us knew that there were millions of people across America who were living their own quiet crises. Maybe because they had a child who had a pre-existing condition and no matter how desperate they were, no matter what insurance company they called, they couldn't get coverage for that child. Maybe it was somebody who had been forced into early retirement, in their 50s, not yet eligible for Medicare, and they couldn't find a job, and they couldn't find health insurance despite the fact that they had some sort of chronic condition that had to be tended to.

Every single one of you at some point before you arrived in Congress and after you arrived in Congress have met constituents with heart breaking stories. And you have looked them in the eye and you have said we're going to do something about it. That's why I want to go to Congress. And now, we're on the threshold of doing something about it, we're a day away, after a year of debate, after every argument has been made, by just about everybody, we're 24 hours away.

As some of you know, I'm not somebody who spends a lot of time surfing the cable channels, but I don't live in a bubble. I have a sense of what the coverage has been and mostly it's an obsession with what would this mean for the Democratic party? What will this mean for the president's polls? How will this play out in November? Is this good or is this bad for the Democratic majority? What does it mean for those swing districts?

And I noticed that there's been a lot of friendly advice offered all across town. Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Karl Rove. They're all warning you of the horrendous impact if you support this legislation. Now it could be that they are suddenly having a change of heart and they are deeply concerned about their Democratic friends.

They are giving you the best possible advice in order to assure that Nancy Pelosi remains speaker and Harry Reid remains leader and that all of you keep your seats, that's a possibility. But it may also be possible that they realize after health reform passes and I sign that election into law, then it's going to be little harder to mischaracterize what this effort has been all about. Because this year small businesses will start getting tax credits so that they can offer health insurance to the employees who currently don't have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK. So listen, this is a segment that you guys have been writing me about and that really sparked a whole lot of controversy. So if you're at home, I want you to sit down and pay attention to this because you're going to get some alternatives to what the Democrats are offering there from someone who doesn't agree with this bill.

So if the bill does passes and it is signed into law, it is the medical professionals, the doctors and the nurses who will be required to deal on a daily basis with all the new rules and regulations. So here it is, earlier I spoke with two medical doctors with different views on this bill.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. BRIAN HILL, UROLOGIST: The problem that I see with this bill here is that we are spending a tremendous amount of money in order to try to bring about health care reform and we are doing that in a system right now where we know it is bankrupting our country. We have already said that our country cannot afford this type of health care plan that we are currently on.

And despite that, we have a bill out there that is going to increase our costs by a quarter of a trillion dollars. That is unsustainable. We cannot afford it.

DR. MATTHEW HEINZ, INTERNIST: According to the analysis that was just released by the CBO, in fact, this plan does actually generate the funding to pay for itself and at the same time, over the next 10 years reduce the deficit by $148 billion due to some of the loopholes that are closed and some of the things in Medicare that are reduced in terms of cost. I think it's important to note that.

LEMON: He's saying this is ducks in a pond.

HILL: This is ducks in a pond. I agree, I tell and I have read the CBO report, but I have also read the chief actuary (ph) report. Now, the CBO report, all they do is they determine about whether or not these decreases are deficits. It doesn't mention one thing about our national health care expenditures, the annual how much we spend on health care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. As you heard, Dr. Hill was opposed to the health care reform bill, right? So I asked him to take some questions from you, our viewers and what he would do differently.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. So doctor, we ran out of time with you and the other doctor, so thank you for talking to us about this. Listen, and this is what I wanted to ask you, but it's clicking in my head and I said, we don't have. Ask him what he wants to change within the bill and how it would affect the uncovered Americans. Because you said you're not - you said this bill is bad.

HILL: Right.

LEMON: You said you're scared.

HILL: Right.

LEMON: What would you do differently?

HILL: So I think we need to actually look at changing the way the structure of the system is arranged. Our system is currently arranged that patients, as are completely removed from the cost of health care. They have no idea of the cost of health care. It's the only system that we have set-up in that manner.

LEMON: Changing the structure how?

HILL: So what we do is we need to look at a consumer driven health care plan. Has health care plans and there's data out there that show that this work. And if you actually look at Indiana, there was a great study that was just published, that came out of Indiana that looked at the cost savings in Indiana where they developed a consumer driven health plan, high deductible health care plan with health savings accounts.

LEMON: And this plan doesn't do that at all?

HILL; This plan actually takes those away.

LEMON: OK. Number one, a consumer driven health care plan.

HILL: Let me give you the data on it.

LEMON: OK.

HILL: This is why it works.

LEMON: Real quickly.

HILL: Real quickly. 11 percent cost savings in Indiana this year because they have 70 percent of their state employees on that plan. 11 percent cost savings, money that we can then put back into that plan.

LEMON: Listen. We have to go.

HILL: Yes.

LEMON: We have time constraints here.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Real quickly.

I'm a cancer survivor, unable to get health insurance, the bill is not perfect, but it's better than doing nothing, I'm already rationed.

HILL: But that's the problem. It's not better than doing nothing, because we are now creating a bill that's going to cost more money, it's going to make it harder for that person to get any kind of health care down the line. So we need to find a way to decrease the costs and find efficiency within our health care delivery system so that we have money available. We save 11 percent of cost in health care by doing a consumer driven health plan, chief actuaries, you see the Academy of Actuaries said 12 to 20 percent cost savings in these consumer driven health plans. Cost savings. That can go to that person so they can have money for health care.

LEMON: I have 10 seconds left. Someone said, you said that you're scared and really - HILL: I'm truly scared.

LEMON: If you're scared, they said, you're in the wrong profession as a health care person.

HILL: No, I'm not. I'm scared for my patients' futures is what I'm scare for. I live in the operating room every day. That is the easy part of this. The scary part of this is that I have politicians down there who are directing our health care and they're doing it in a that's going to decrease our ability to give health care to people.

LEMON: Thank you. But basically you're number one point, a consumer driven health care -

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Consumer driven because evidence shows it works. We practice evidence based medicine. Evidence shows it decreased costs and that gives us money to be able to utilize later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Hey, listen, guys, thank you so much for your feedback on that particular segment and any time you have it, make sure you send it to us here at CNN, we'll get it on. We really do take your feedback and your comments very seriously. And again, I welcome - we welcome them here at CNN.

Hey, let's show them a live picture, Scottie, why don't we of Washington, D.C., the Capitol, the president made a passionate plea for two Democratic votes, four votes today at the Capitol. He went to Capitol Hill, there's the White House. Not sure if he's there, of course, a big gridiron dinner is going on in Washington, a whole lot going on and they're working on that health care bill.

You're going to hear more of the president's comments, very pointed comments moments away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. If you were out and about today enjoying the beautiful weather in some parts of the country or if you were dealing with the bad weather happening in the midwest, you didn't see this. Now's your chance, because President Obama says a vote on health care is less than 24 hours away, is it? And his closing remarks to House Democrats were really powerful ones. Words he hopes will push on the fence lawmakers into the yes column, no matter what the political fallout may be. Here's the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Now, I can't guarantee that this is good politics, every one of you know your districts better than I do. You talk to folks, you're under enormous pressure, you're getting ro-bo calls, you're getting e-mails that are tying up the communications system. I know the pressure you're under. I get a few comments made about me, I don't know if you've noticed.

I have been in your shoes. I know what it's like to take a tough vote. But what did Lincoln say? "I am not bound to win but I am bound to be true." Two generations ago, folks who were sitting in your position, they made a decision, we are going to make sure that seniors and the poor have health care coverage that they can count on. And they did the right thing.

And I'm sure at the time they were making that vote, they weren't sure how the politics were either. Any more than the people who made the decision to make sure that social security was in place knew how the politics would play out or folks who passed the Civil Rights Acts knew how the politics were going play out. They were not bound to win, but they were bound to be true.

And now we have got middle class Americans who don't have Medicare, who don't have Medicaid, watching the employer-based system fray along the edges. Who are being caught in terrible situations and the question is, are we going to be true to them?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And that is the president speaking earlier and then you see live pictures there of Capitol Hill and also of the White House where the president, of course, lives and you see the lawmakers working on Capitol Hill to try to get this health care bill either passed or not passed.

So listen, I want to tell you, remind you of our very special coverage for you on the health care bill, 9:00 a.m. Eastern tomorrow, we'll be covering that all day. So make sure you stick with us here on CNN for the up to the minute updates and the analysis from the best political team on television. I think between 1:00 and 6:00, join Mr. Wolf Blitzer. I love watching Wolf. He's great with this, perfect for this. He'll be helming our coverage tomorrow for you.

They're popular. They're entertaining, but do you want your children going to their sometimes risque concerts? Look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: There's a serious discussion going on about putting ratings on concert tickets, is it right? What should we do? That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Guys, look at this video. Let it play a little bit, Scotty. What did you think of this? This isn't the bad part. They're dressed, you know? I don't know. That's Lady - I'll let you decide. Lady GaGa, Beyonce, Britney Spears, they're all young pop stars but their videos and even their concerts can be pretty risque and they're among of many.

And in response there is a growing movement now online, on the blogs to slap ratings on concerts. I'm joined now by music journalist Alan Light. He is the contributing editor for "Rolling Stones." So Alan, thank you for joining us. OK. So you saw that video and I think that this started, this particular thing, some parents took their kids to a Lady Gaga concert, I believe, it was in Australia and they were like whoa, we didn't know that this was going on with our kids and now they're saying rating systems it's spread across the ocean now to hear, it went to Europe and now it's here. What do you think? Should there be ratings on concerts?

ALAN LIGHT, "ROLLING STONES" CONTRIBUTING EDITOR: Well, short answer, no. I don't think that there should. I think, first of all, if it's anything that I would hope would have some kind of implied parental guidance going to a rock concert, you know, this is late at night, it's very expensive, they're mostly adults there. Some of them are drinking. I mean I would hope that if you're talking about sending young kids to a show this is something that the parents would be involved in ahead of time regardless of what the decision is.

LEMON: You said mostly adults but I think that Lady Gaga and Beyonce and others, I mean, there are adults who go but they appeal to a younger generation so you know I'm not a parent, so I don't know what it's like. When you say "parental responsibility" but I mean, maybe parents might know what they want.

LIGHT: Well, they do. I mean, concert tickets are expensive. You know this is not a thing that a bunch of 12-year-olds are going to together without their parents knowing. But you know beyond that I think that anytime that you start getting into putting ratings and restrictions around something I think it's a very difficult direction to go down.

LEMON: Some people are saying it's art. You'd be putting a restriction on art. But here's the thing I want to get to, movies have it and television.

LIGHT: Movies and television and video games are very different things. You can make specific ground rules that say, particularly, graphics simulations of violence and have sex. Is it there, is it not there? It's close-up, there's no fantasy to it. It's the same every time that it broadcasts. You can, you know, as difficult as it is, you can make rules that will apply in a consistent way and I think that consistency is really difficult when you're talking about a concert, you just can't say because somebody is provocative or controversial, that's a reason to put a restriction around it and we're not talking about putting ratings around books or on plays. This isn't just about ideas that they raise. What are really going to be the things, the guidelines, that would set these ratings?

LEMON: Who would think when you look at that and then you think about, don't shoot Elvis below the waist because he's wiggling his hips.

LIGHT: You know, that is the question, would there have been ratings around Elvis because of his pelvis? Would there have been ratings around the Beatles because of their long hair? You know, cultural - what's accepted culturally changes overtime and once you start putting rules that becomes a difficult game. LEMON: All right. That's going to have to be the last word. Thank you. Always appreciate talking to you and reading what you write as well.

LIGHT: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: All right. Alan Light, he's a journalist for "The Rolling Stone." Thank you very much "Rolling Stone" magazine. Appreciate it.

So who is still on the fence when it comes to tomorrow's health care vote. Our latest count, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Over the past several hours, President Obama has lost vital support from among his own party, as the health care reform bill heads for a final vote. As of right now 26 Democrats are still undeclared. That means they have not said whether they will vote yes or no on the bill. So what we do know is that 32 Democrats have already announced they will join, 178 Republicans in voting against the bill.

If the GOP can persuade six more of them to vote no, defeat is assured. And I want you to remember our special programming, it begins at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. That is tomorrow morning. We'll be covering it all day long. So make sure you stick with CNN for up-to- the-minute updates and analysis from the best political team on television.

And at 1:00, that's correct, Wolf gets here at 1:00, right? 1:00 to 6:00, Wolf Blitzer will be anchoring our coverage and the vote and, of course, as long as this goes on, Wolf Blitzer will be here because he's the man do this. So make sure that you tune in tomorrow. CNN.

I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. In the meantime "Campbell Brown" starts right now.