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Former Pres. Clinton Enlisted to Help with Health Care Push; Protestor on Both Sides Rally on Health Care Overhaul; Doctors Weigh in on Health Care; What's in the Health Care Bill?; Bracket Buster: A Bad Sign for the President?; Tavis Smiley Raises issue of a 'Black Agenda'
Aired March 20, 2010 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, a CNN exclusive. Our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is hearing the White House has enlisted a big political player to help push health care reform to victory.
And underwater for the second year in a row. We take you to a major U.S. city where people are at their wit's end over severe flooding.
And I wouldn't touch this -- look at that -- with a ten foot pole. And the question is did he get sprayed.
Good evening, everyone.
We tell you about a CNN exclusive. We are learning new information about the White House's final push to the health care overhaul bill. Now senior White House correspondent Ed Henry joins us now by phone from Washington, D.C.
Ed, you are hearing this first. You are in Washington tonight. What are you hearing?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, I'm at the Gridiron dinner, which is a long Washington tradition. It was interesting because Bill Clinton, the former president, is the headliner for this dinner. He's going to start speaking soon. He was late to the dinner. I started inquiring with some Democrats outside the dinner, and I picked up from two Democratic sources familiar with that telling me that Bill Clinton was late to this dinner because he was making phone calls on health care. He was enlisted by the White House to try to help push this over the finish line.
And what's happening about this, of course, is that Bill Clinton was the most recent Democratic president back in 1993 who tried so hard to get health care reform and failed so spectacularly. And that is one of the reasons why Democrats are so nervous about the current debate. But I think that this lobbying, last-minute lobbying by Bill Clinton, this evening, calling wavering Democratic members of Congress tells us two things.
Number one, while the Democrats are close, they do not have the votes yet. If they did have the votes, they wouldn't be enlisting a former president. Secondly, it shows us this White House is pulling out all the stops. Enlisting a former president so synonymous with the health care battle at this late hour shows that President Obama is literally pulling out all the stops to make sure this gets done tomorrow when the House votes on it, Don.
LEMON: And you know what, Ed, some people might question that choice, because we know that former President Bill Clinton took on health care unsuccessfully. So do you think that this is really going to help? Will he, you know -- will people give their vote to him, because he couldn't get it done.
HENRY: Well, it's a good question. It remains to be seen. But let's face it. He is a very popular figure, still, in the Democratic Party. And an interesting side note here is that one of my Democratic sources was pointing out that there was some thought that maybe Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state, might be able to help on this. But Democratic officials point out that as secretary of state, it is sort of awkward to get involved in domestic politics. And that is part of the reason why instead of using the former New York senator, the White House basically reached out to the former president.
And so, you are right. It could be difficult because he is somebody who tried and failed. But on the other hand, there are a lot of Democrats, the Democratic faithful who respect and admire Bill Clinton for trying, even though he failed. He fought the good fight in their eyes. And now they are seeing maybe perhaps President Obama is going to finish the job.
Let's remember that passing it in the House, if they do tomorrow, doesn't mean it's over. It means they still have to get it through the U.S. Senate. But this would be a major step forward, and maybe Bill Clinton is somebody who can help push it through.
LEMON: All right. It's certainly been a very interesting day, Ed Henry. You know, you have former President Bill Clinton late to the Gridiron Dinner that you're attending. And then you have the president who is speaking today to the Democratic caucus, spending really a lot of time on Capitol Hill. So, Ed, we're going to let you get back. If you get some more information, please get with us.
As a matter of fact, we're going to have you back later to talk a little bit about health care final four. A lot of people are comparing what is happening in Washington to what's happening with the NCAA -- final four tournaments. So thank you, Ed. We appreciate your exclusive reporting tonight.
So, listen, we want to move on here and tell you -- this is our, again, our exclusive story here. Ed Henry is saying that the White House has enlisted Bill Clinton, the former president Bill Clinton, to go and speak to people on Capitol Hill, especially Democrats who may be wavering to try to get this health care reform bill through.
The president said 24 hours, 24 hours, this is earlier today, that they would have a vote, and he predicted a win. So we shall see.
In the meantime, after all of the debate, health care reform comes down to raw numbers, really. It is one crucial vote. 216 yeas or nays will decide it. All designed to provide health care insurance to millions of Americans who don't now have it.
So much is at stake that President Barack Obama postponed an overseas trip to take a short ride to Capitol Hill today. It is perhaps one of the most significant journeys of his political career.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have been debating health care for decades. It has now been debated for a year. It is in your hands. It is time to pass health care reform for America. And I'm confident that you are going to do it tomorrow. Thank you very much, House of Representatives. Let's get this done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, the president had to bring his "A" game. He needed all his powers of persuasion, because fellow Democrats have been turning against the bill, joining the Republican opposition.
Now if the president loses 38 Democrats, they and 178 Republicans will ensure the bill is defeated. Already there are 32 Democrats who have said they will vote no. Six more, and it's all over.
So it comes down to these 26 Democrats. Look at your screen right now. Officially they are undeclared. They have not said how they will vote tomorrow. The president needs to keep at least 21 on his side, or health care reform is dead. No longer. Lawmakers know their political lives are on the line for this vote. Whichever way you vote, or they vote, it will stick with them. Emotions are extremely high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abortion is not health care. Vote no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Vocal demonstrators converged on Capitol Hill to insist lawmakers kill the bill. Similar rallies, both for and against the passage popped up in cities across the country. It was against this highly charged backdrop at times turning racist and ugly as the president of the United States stood and urged lawmakers to be strong and do the right thing.
CNN's senior congressional Dana Bash was there.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, Democrats are working late into the night here, counting the votes, hoping to have a victory on health care by this time tomorrow night. And today they got a personal push from the man who has the most at stake politically.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): The president came in confident.
OBAMA: We are going to get this done.
BASH: And use his final pep rally for House Democrats to cast the moment in historic terms.
OBAMA: Is this the single most important step that we have taken on health care since Medicare? Absolutely.
BASH: He acknowledged political reality.
OBAMA: I know this is a tough vote.
BASH: But insisted at the end of the day, voting yes on health care will be a political plus for Democrats.
OBAMA: I am actually confident. I have talked to some of you, individually, that it will end up being the smart thing to do politically. Because I believe good policy is good politics.
BASH: Even before the president's hard sell, Democratic leaders for the first time said they've secured the votes to pass health care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really we believe we have the votes.
BASH: That prediction after a frenzied Saturday of last-minute meetings to count the votes and cajole fence sitters.
(on camera): Do you think when you come out of that meeting, you're going to essentially have the firm 216?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still have a smile.
BASH (voice-over): In the midst of their 11th hour scramble, House Democrats abruptly abandon plans to pass health care with a controversial procedure "Deem and Pass." That would have let House Democrats avoid a direct vote on the Senate health care bill many don't like. But the maneuver became explosive and backfired.
REP. DENNIS CARDOZA (D), CALIFORNIA: I don't support that and won't support a rule that does it that way.
BASH: Democratic leaders racked up some nine votes by resolving a regional issue, disparities in Medicare payments to hospital.
REP. RON KIND (D), WISCONSIN: I think this resolution is crucial for getting them to a yes on this legislation.
BASH: Yet as momentum appeared to build, so did the opposition.
PROTESTORS: Kill the bill! Kill the bill!
BASH: Protesters descended on the capitol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abortion is not health care. Vote no. BASH: Yelling for lawmakers to kill the bill as they walked outside on a sunny Saturday, and cheering at the sight of the House Republican leader.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill, John!
BASH: But the protests also turned personal and ugly.
PROTESTORS: Kill the bill!
BASH: Inside this office building, a CNN producer overheard protesters yelling the word faggot at openly gay Congressman Barney Frank and Congressman John Lewis, a civil rights icon who marched in Selma, Alabama --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill.
BASH: -- told CNN protestors hurled racial slurs at him repeatedly yelling the "N" word.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The turbulent and intense day here included more wrangling on the emotional issue of abortion. But the house speaker insist that she will not give into demands from anti-abortion Democrats for a new vote on language making prohibition on taxpayer funding for abortion more restrictive.
Don?
LEMON: All right, Dana, thank you very much for that.
You know, it's down to the wire, but it's not a done deal. So people are taking to the streets to push for their side in the health care overhaul. Just outside of Chicago, the yes and the no spend the day protesting. They did it side-by-side.
The competing rallies took place at the office of Representative Michelle Bean, an undeclared until now. She came out today in support of the bill. Similar story, different location.
We go to northern California. Protesters against the overhaul rallied at the office of Representative Jerry McNerney. But just as they started their chanting, the congressman announced he was moving from undeclared to yes on health care reform.
Boy, it's heating up. Stay with CNN throughout the weekend as we cover this crucial vote.
Special programming will begin tomorrow morning, 9:00 a.m. We'll be covering it all day long.
As the nation waits for the vote on health care reform, it is not just politicians and Americans across the country who are at odds already. Doctors are, too. We hear a strong arguments from physicians on both sides. And bracing for flooding in Fargo. Will there be a last-minute reprieve? We'll ask our Jacqui Jeras.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: If the health care reform bill does pass and is signed into law, it's the medical professionals, the doctors and the nurses, who will be required to deal with all the new rules and regulations. I spoke with two doctors with very different views on this bill.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. BRIAN HILL, UROLOGIST: The problem that I see with this bill here is that we are spending a tremendous amount of money in order to try to bring about health care reform. And we are doing that in a system right now where we know it is bankrupting our country.
We have already said that our country cannot afford this type of health care plan that we are currently on. And despite that, we have a bill out there that is going to increase our cost by a quarter of a trillion dollars. That is unsustainable. We cannot afford it.
DR. MATTHEW HEINZ, INTERNIST: According to the analysis that was just released by the CBO, in fact, this plan does actually generate the funding to pay for itself and at the same time, over the first 10 years reduce the deficit by $148 billion due to some of the loopholes that are closed and some of the things in Medicare that are reduced in terms of cost. I think it's important to note that.
LEMON: He's saying this is ducks in a pond.
HILL: This is ducks in a pond. I'll tell you. I agree. I read the CBO report, but I've also read the Chief Actuary Report. Now the CBO report, all they do is they determine about whether or not this decreases our deficit. It doesn't mention one thing about our national health care expenditures, the annual, how much we spend on health care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. And as you heard Dr. Bill was -- Dr. Hill, I should say, was opposed to the health care reform bill. So I asked him to take some questions from you, our viewers. And I asked him what does he think? What would he do differently?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So doctor, we ran out of time with you and the other doctor, so thank you for talking to us about this. Listen, and this is what I wanted to ask you, but it's clicking in my head and I said, we don't have time.
HILL: Sure.
LEMON: Ask him what he wants to change within the bill and how it would affect the uncovered Americans. Because you said you're not -- you said this bill is bad.
HILL: Right.
LEMON: You said you're scared.
HILL: Right.
LEMON: What would you do differently?
HILL: So I think we need to actually look at changing the way the structure of the system is arranged. Our system is currently arranged that patients, as are completely removed from the cost of health care. They have no idea of the cost of health care. It's the only system that we have set-up in that manner.
LEMON: Changing the structure how?
HILL: So what we do is we need to look at a consumer driven health care plans. Has health care plans and there's data out there that show that this work. And if you actually look at Indiana, there was a great study that was just published, that came out of Indiana that looked at the cost savings in Indiana where they developed a consumer driven health plan, high deductible health care plan with health savings accounts.
LEMON: And this plan doesn't do that at all?
HILL: This plan actually takes those away.
LEMON: OK. Number one, the consumer driven health care plan.
HILL: Let me give you the data on it.
LEMON: OK.
HILL: This is why it works.
LEMON: Real quickly.
HILL: Real quickly. Eleven percent cost savings in Indiana this year because they have 70 percent of their state employees on that plan. Eleven percent cost savings, money that we can then put back into that plan.
LEMON: Listen. We have to go.
HILL: Yes.
LEMON: We have time constraints here.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Real quickly.
"I'm a cancer survivor, unable to get health insurance, the bill is not perfect, but it's better than doing nothing, I'm already rationed."
HILL: But that's the problem. It's not better than doing nothing, because we are now creating a bill that's going to cost more money, it's going to make it harder for that person to get any kind of health care down the line. So we need to find a way to decrease the costs and find efficiency within our health care delivery system so that we have money available. We save 11 percent of cost in health care by doing a consumer driven health plan, chief actuaries. I mean, you see the Academy of Actuaries said 12 to 20 percent cost savings in these consumer driven health plans. Cost savings. That can go to that person so they can have money for health care.
LEMON: I have 10 seconds left. Someone said, you said that you're scared and really --
HILL: I'm truly scared.
LEMON: If you're scared, they said, you're in the wrong profession as a health care person.
HILL: No, I'm not. I'm scared for my patients' futures is what I'm scare for. I live in the operating room every day. That is the easy part of this. The scary part of this is that I have politicians down there who are directing our health care and they're doing it in a way that's going to decrease our ability to give health care to people.
LEMON: Thank you. But basically you're number one point, a consumer driven health care system --
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: Consumer driven because evidence shows it works. We practice evidence based medicine. Evidence shows it decreased costs and that gives us money to be able to utilize later.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Our thanks to Dr. Brian Hill.
OK. Politics and how about that -- basketball. They may have more in common than it might seem. Our top political minds bring March Madness to the floor of Congress.
There you go. Thank you very much.
And watching the Red River. Fearing a flood. But could Fargo dodge the bullet? Jacqui Jeras will weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So you may not have had the perfect weather today, but you can count your blessings because on the first day of spring, a flood-weary Fargo is keeping watch on the Red River. Melting snow is pushing the river steadily higher, and in just hours, it is expected to crest at 37 feet or 19 feet above flood stage. But that is lower than many had once feared. And more than a million sandbags are in place in Fargo and nearby Moorhead, Minnesota, to hold back the waters. And city officials have cigars at the ready to celebrate if the river does not overflow.
Jacqui, let's hope they'll be smoking those cigars. It's not only that, but we've got the snow and that's -- it's kind of all adding into it, right?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is, yes. And, you know, it may not overtop the levees that they've built. The other thing you got to worry about is to make sure those dikes holes. If you get any kind of break in there, they are in big trouble as well.
And one of those concerns that we have is that, you know, we think we are going to stay under that record crest for tomorrow. However, the river is supposed to stay in major flood for at least a week. So those sandbags are going to be up there, you know, with that water pressure pushing on them for a good week. So that is something we'll be watching. So definitely a little bit of good news.
And some of the reason why the level now is forecast to be a little lower than we originally thought is because much colder temperatures have moved in, and so that ground is hardening back up. So not all the runoff is going back into that river. So we'll continue to watch those situation through the day tomorrow.
Now, the other big weather story for the day is snow. Yes. On the first day of spring. Not so much fun for a whole lot of you, unfortunately. Check out this gorgeous iReport though from Oklahoma City. Our iReporter Patricia Smith sent this to us this morning. She said that it was absolutely gorgeous although she is sick of the snow. She said the roads were very slick. But she was going to give it a go and try and go to a wedding today. So, Patricia, I hope that worked out for you.
We did have some roads closed because the wind was blowing huge drifts over some of the state highways across the area. We've also had some accumulations up here in the parts of Kansas, up towards Kansas City, and the heaviest accumulations in this area reaching above through seven-inch mark. And those winds have been gusting 40-plus miles an hour. And that is why we've had some of the blowing and the drifting.
Now big difference is in temperatures ahead and behind of the front, right, Don. You can figure out where the cold front is, right? But the meteorologist today does it.
LEMON: Right there.
JERAS: So cold air is going to be moving in. So everybody who has enjoyed a lovely spring day in the east today will see wet weather and much cooler temperatures.
LEMON: That means us here?
JERAS: That means for us.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Come on, Jacqui. I keep saying every time it gets warm, I keep saying, oh, finally, finally.
Do you play?
JERAS: Oh, basketball?
LEMON: Yes.
JERAS: Not so much. But you and I won tonight.
LEMON: All right. So did you have anything riding on this?
JERAS: No. I didn't do it.
LEMON: All right.
JERAS: Did you?
LEMON: Everybody is talking about it. No, I'll wait for a little bit. I went to the Hawks game last night. It was great.
So listen, we are doing this whole thing because, you know, the health care reform bill, it feels a lot like March Madness, and the ball is in the court of those undecided Democrats, Jacqui. Bad sports analogy.
JERAS: A little bad.
LEMON: Well, you know, we are not going to stop there. Our top political minds are bringing the March Madness mentality to the Capitol Hill.
Did you say something, Jacqui Jeras?
JERAS: Oh, I just said it was a funny analogy.
LEMON: OK.
JERAS: It works for me, Don.
LEMON: We'll see you in a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. More now on the big story. One that just keeps heating up. Tomorrow's health care reform vote.
Let's bring in now our senior political editor, Mr. Mark Preston.
OK, Mark, listen, we talked about Democrats. 32 have already broken ranks. The White House -- they may seem like they are a little bit nervous. Do you think they are? Especially considering Ed Henry's exclusive story at the top of this broadcast? MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, Don, of course, we heard Ed say at the top of the broadcast that Bill Clinton, in fact, is making phone calls on behalf of the White House. He is clearly reaching out to some of these undeclared Democrats. These Democrats who haven't come out in favor or against the bill at this point.
Look, Democrats are still confident that they are going to win the vote tomorrow. Republicans who I have been speaking to over the past couple of hours believe that they will lose, that Democrats will win. However, if you are the White House, there is very little, if no room for error. So that's why we are seeing Bill Clinton make these phone calls on behalf of the White House tonight, Don.
LEMON: It would seem that Republicans have a really good strategy if they have to, you know, whip out the big guns. They are talking about President Clinton and then winning over 32 Democrats. It seems that they have a winning -- at least a good strategy here.
PRESTON: Well, certainly. If they don't win tomorrow, if they don't win the vote tomorrow, they believe, politically, they will win. If Democrats are only able to get 216 votes, Don, the baseline need to pass this bill. They believe now -- Republicans believe that all 216 Democrats can be tagged with the idea that they were the deciding vote in this health care bill.
This country right now, Don, is divided over health care reform. Half the country wants it. The other half doesn't want it. And we certainly saw that outside the Capitol today with those very, very tense protests as they were debating the bill inside.
LEMON: OK. Listen, just say -- if you can say, you know, three votes tomorrow, right? Quickly, explain that to us?
PRESTON: Yes, sure, Don. Tomorrow, there will be several procedural votes throughout the day. Several hours of debate. The final vote that we should be looking at will come in the late afternoon, early evening. This vote will be on the Senate bill. The bill will then move down to the White House to be signed. However, the debate is not entirely over. The Senate still has some things to do. So we will still be talking about health care this time next week -- Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
Hey, don't go far away? Because I want to talk to you in a little bit. Will you stick around for a little bit, Mark Preston?
PRESTON: Sure.
LEMON: OK, because Mark and I are going to talk about this. We'll see if we can get Ed Henry to talk as well.
A health care fight of a different kind, right, we are going to talk about. We are talking about this March Madness. Is it kind of related in that debate?
Plus, we are going to talk about our CNN Hero. He is battling to bring doctors and patients together in developing country. So we'll talk about that.
Again, what does March Madness have to do with all of this? With the frenzy in Washington, the overhaul of the bill? Think about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. The health care debate -- it is heated. It's a topic that is heated for sure, but one that can be a bit difficult to understand. In fact, many of the proposed provisions won't kick in for a number of years. Others, however, will be felt almost immediately.
We break it all down in terms that are easy for you to understand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice over): As the vote comes down to the wire, President Obama takes his message straight to the people, touting the immediate benefits of his health reform bill.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time.
LEMON: The full impact of the bill won't take place for several years. In the meantime, uninsured Americans with pre-existing health conditions will get temporary coverage from a $5-billion fund. This coverage would also include children with pre-existing conditions. Young adults would also immediately be covered under their parents' plan.
OBAMA: And by the way, to all the young people here today, starting this year, if you don't have insurance, all new plans will allow you to stay on your parents' plan until you are 26 years old.
LEMON: And right away, people with serious illnesses including cancer will no longer face coverage caps from insurance companies. And if people feel their insurance company unfairly denied them coverage, they can appeal through an independent process.
And right away for the elderly, when they exceed the limit of drug coverage under Medicare Part D, they'll get $250 a year to help plug the gap.
OBAMA: Do not quit. Do not give up. We keep on going. We are going to get this done. We are going to make history. We are going to fix health care in America with your help.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. So listen, you are talking about it and we're talking about it. So, let's talk about it.
Hand me that. Thank you, sir.
March madness. Several big upsets tonight. None bigger than number one seed Kansas falling to number nine, Northern Iowa. Kansas, picked by many including President Obama, to win it all. Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Kansas? It's Kansas beating K-state, Kentucky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
OBAMA: And a rematch in the coaching department from 2008 when John Calipari was coaching Memphis against Bill Self.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Against Bill Self.
OBAMA: And I think once again Self wins. That is the game right there. All right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So, the president comes up a loser in basketball. So then, what about health care?
Joining us now, CNN senior political editor Mark Preston in Washington.
Mark, we were talking about this. Don't think about it too much. It's just a fun segment. Everybody is talking about March madness.
Ed Henry is supposed to join us but Ed's not here, right? No Ed. We don't have Ed.
OK. So, listen. Listen, Mark. People are filling out their brackets. I have one right here, predicting the winners and the losers. And it seemed appropriate -- we were talking about this last night after, you know, after we went to a ball game last night. I had a couple of beers and we were talking about -- you know what?
This is like -- this is almost like the health care debate. It is down to the wire. The president may go for a buzzer beater. I mean, do you agree that there are some similarities there?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: You know, there are. You know, it's interesting. If you look at it -- if you look at politics like you look at sports, Northern Iowa, which defeated Kansas tonight, perhaps gave or assuredly gave President Obama his biggest political win.
Had it not been for Iowa, we probably wouldn't have had a President Obama, right? Won the Iowa caucuses, boom, and then he moved forward. Now if you look at politics as this sport, Don, you're absolutely right.
LEMON: So, listen, before -- I know where you are going with this. I want you to look at this. This is our -- what are we calling this one? Our health care -- our health care final four.
This is our bracket right here, Mark. So, weigh in on this. So we have President Obama and then we have Representative Bart Stupak, then we have Representative John Boehner and then we have Representative Nancy Pelosi.
I don't know how we -- can we predict a possible winner here when it is looking -- with the votes we are looking at?
PRESTON: Well, you know something? If you are a Republican, you are looking at that bracket, you're saying there are three Democrats and there's only one Republican up there, right? So, it's a win-win for the Republicans.
But, look, in the end, it is going to be Pelosi and Obama. I suspect right in the middle, they are both going to win.
LEMON: That's it?
PRESTON: That is what we're hearing right now, right? I mean, that they have the votes, but it will be by the slimmest of margins.
LEMON: Let's have a quick look at that bracket again, if we can put it up there, because President Obama, as you said, versus his own party and Representative Bart Stupak from Wisconsin.
So, who do you think wins in all of this? Because there are a lot of people -- we had one -- we had Representative Cao on, when he said, this is issue -- because Bart Stupak, obviously abortion, he said this is an issue I can't compromise on.
PRESTON: Sure. So let's just go around. President Obama, let's assume he wins tomorrow. Democrats get the health care bill. Huge win for Obama. Huge win for Nancy Pelosi. Not actually a terrible loss for John Boehner. He has a campaign issue. They think they have a campaign issue. Bart Stupak stood by his conscience. He lost legislatively.
LEMON: OK. Real quick. So, John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi, what do you think? If you can call this one the two top-seed guys here, who would you call?
PRESTON: Don, why are you doing this to me? Both of their aides are going to call me, yelling at me.
LEMON: OK. All right. So, real quickly, let's talk about the president. We saw the president filling out his brackets. It was very interesting.
Can we still have that video?
Now listen, last year, you know, in better political times, as you said, he was a winner. And this year everyone is saying oh, my gosh. You know, it could turn out to be a big political upset like all the games -- a lot of the games have been as I said buzzer beaters and down to the wire and upsets. So, a lot of people are predicting, hey, this could be an upset.
PRESTON: Yes, I mean, look, just like -- just like he has taken ownership of his picks right there, health care for President Obama is his initiative. He can't push it off on Republicans. We saw the White House, Don, talk all throughout the past year that the banking crisis, the housing crisis, the economy wasn't his fault. It wasn't his. Well, in fact, health care is his. So, this is huge for him.
LEMON: Hey, thank you. Thanks for playing along with this. Because, you know, people get on a Saturday night, you don't want to be beat up over the head with policy and bad news. So, this is a little bit of a fun. NCAA is going on. There you go.
Thanks, Mark Preston. We'll see you tomorrow. OK, get some sleep now.
PRESTON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: She went from being a tour guide to a CNN hero. Find out what one woman is doing to ease suffering in South America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: An adventure tour guide on a mission to save lives one the Amazon jungle. Patty Webster is this week's CNN hero. She goes the extra mile to bring medical care to the most remote and impoverished areas of Peru.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY WEBSTER, CNN HERO (voice over): For someone that goes to the Amazon on a vacation, you see the beauty. It's easy to overlook the realities of what people are living there.
I was a guide leading adventure tourists around. As time went on, I just saw real suffering going on.
People were very sick. People would actually sit around my mosquito net waiting for me to wake up so that I could help them with, you know, a sick child. It was frightening to me, because if they're depending on me for their health care, we're all going to die, because I certainly had no medical training at all.
I had to involve myself more. It was either stay and do something or leave.
My name is Patty Webster, and I bring down medical teams into the Amazon jungle. We work in so many diverse areas where the Ministry of Health doesn't get to. So, we often take extreme measures to get out to places.
In some of these areas, many of them would never see a doctor. We work mornings and nights, and you have so many people. You want to make sure everybody gets treated.
This is our 17th year. We are seeing more patients, providing more services.
Anything I can offer them that is going to help them, that's just a real gift. It certainly wasn't what I had planned for my life, but you can't go against these forces of nature. (END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: See more work in some of Peru's poorest urban areas or to nominate someone you think is changing the world, go to cnn.com/heroes.
Seeing the health care reform bill pass. That is President Obama's biggest concern at the moment. But new challenges certainly lie ahead. These two men -- Tavis Smiley, Dr. Cornel West -- say they want the president to give more attention to issues important to African-Americans.
And it is hard to see when sand is blowing in your eyes, right? A sandstorm so bad that it cancelled airline flights.
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LEMON: Hey, we've got some top stories for you right now. Today is the 7th anniversary of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. It comes as the U.S. prepares to wind down its forces in that country while ramping up the fight against the Taliban in Afghanistan. More than 4,000 U.S. military personnel have died in the Iraq conflict.
Thousands of demonstrators turned out in Washington today to protest the Iraq war. They put signs resembling tombstones on the National Mall with the names of fallen Iraqis and Americans. There were also anti-war protests in other cities including New York and Los Angeles.
Meantime, several hundred Marines are deploying out of Southern California's Camp Pendleton. Their destination? Southern Afghanistan where they will link up with Afghan troops. Their mission? To secure cities and towns in Helmand Province against Taliban militants who have been recently ousted from key strongholds in the region.
New Year celebrations are underway right now in Iran. The holiday also marks the first day of spring. A prominent pro-reform politician has special reason to celebrate. Iran's official news agency reports that Hossein Marashi was freed from prison, but he will have to go back to jail on April 3rd when the New Year holiday is over.
Pope Benedict tells Irish Catholics he is sorry for the latest scandal that has rocked the Church, but is the pontiff's apology enough for many angry victims?
And a blinding snowstorm so bad planes can't even take off.
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LEMON: Listen, this weekend, Travis Smiley is holding a big event in Chicago to talk about issues that are important to African-Americans, right? He does this every year. So, many African-Americans threw their support behind President Obama to get him elected. But is the nation's first black president doing enough to address their concerns?
Talk show host Tavis Smiley has raised the issue, even putting him at odds with some black leaders -- many black leaders really. He took his concerns to the president's home turf today at Chicago State University. Now, I had a chance to speak with Smiley along with author and Professor Cornell West. Very interesting discussion. Pay close attention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAVIS SMILEY, HOST, "THE TAVIS SMILEY SHOW": This conversation at Chicago State today here in Chicago obviously is really about whether or not there ought to be an African-American agenda in the era of Obama in this so-called post-racial world, Don, and how we go about doing that.
I happen to believe that disproportionate pain requires a disproportionate response. I believe and Dr. West agrees that the black agenda has always been the best of America because the black agenda is always about democracy, looking out for those who are socially, politically, economically disenfranchised.
So, this conversation today is how can black people exercise their agency and how do we get black leaders to understand the urgency of the pain that black people are feeling right now.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, there has been a controversy -- for our viewers who don't know this controversy. There are people who are saying, who is Tavis Smiley to set the agenda for black America? Black Americans are not monolithic. Tavis Smiley is not a policymaker. He is not the president of the United States. What gives him the gumption to, in a sense, to call out President Obama?
SMILEY: First of all, I'm not -- I'm not calling out President Obama. I'm calling out black leaders who have said recently that the president doesn't need to focus on an African-American agenda. When black leaders start saying that, then what role are they playing if they are not fighting for the best interest of black people, no matter who the president is?
So, this is not about the president. It is about the presidency. How do you get the White House to take note of the suffering of your people and get them to address that?
LEMON: You talked about black leaders. And I'm just reading some quotes. Al Sharpton, the reverend, said Tavis Smiley is and outright liar and I hate him and a Clinton water boy. How do you respond to things like that?
SMILEY: Well, I really don't, quite frankly. People are entitled to express themselves. I don't engage in personal ad homonym attacks. I think you can have disagreements without being disagreeable. Ultimately, for me it's about keeping alive the legacy of Dr. King. For me, that means, Don, justice for all, service to others and a love for our people that will liberate them.
What's funny to me is that if Frank Rich in the "New York Times" takes the president on. He is courageous. If Paul Krugman takes him on on health care, he is courageous. If Anderson Cooper has a segment every night "Keeping Them Honest," he is courageous. But when Tavis Smiley suggests holding the president accountable, then all of a sudden I'm labelled an Obama critic. That argument is specious, number one. And quite frankly, it has some racist undertones to me.
LEMON: It has been a criticism of the Congressional Black Caucus that the president has not focused on issues that are important to African- Americans, Professor West -- Dr. West. And some people took him to task.
Robert Gibbs defended him just a couple of weeks ago, saying that the president was a member of the Congressional Black Caucus and that he has to run the entire country but he is focused on issues that are important to African-Americans. What do you say to that?
CORNEL WEST, AUTHOR, "RACE MATTERS": I think the question is not -- again, it is not a personal thing about what the president say is. It is just a question of looking at his policies and seeing whether they tilt toward the strong or whether they tilt toward the weak.
And what brother Tavis is saying is that we have to bear witness to ensure that the weak, the most vulnerable, are not being rendered invisible no matter who the president is, no matter who the governor is, no matter who the mayor is.
SMILEY: Ultimately, I want folks to understand that you are the leader that you've been looking for. During the Obama campaign, the campaign and black leaders asked black folk and a lot of other Americans to do a whole lot of things. It's just we're talking about black folk today.
Black folk were asked to raise money, obviously, to give money, to host coffees and teas, to walk precincts, to tell their friends, to show up at rallies. There were all kinds of things that black folk were asked to do by black leaders and the Obama campaign to exercise their agency.
Here is the question, Don. I'm not going to ask you a question. I'm being rhetorical here, obviously. But the question, Don, I think is this. What have black folk, Don, been asked to do since the president was elected? And that is what this conversation at Chicago State is all about. What are we prepared to do to exercise the power that we have to make sure that this administration, this celebration that we have about Barack Obama is not just about symbolism, but also ultimately about substance as well.
WEST: I think the important thing no matter who the president would be, it could be Hillary Clinton, it could be Barack Obama, it could be John McCain, and, lo and behold, it could be Sarah Palin.
If they are not focusing on poor people, if they're not focusing on -- if the president has industrial complex, if they're not focusing on workers, if they don't understand, it is about jobs with a living wage, quality health care, infrastructure, quality education, allowing people to live lives of decency and dignity, we wouldn't need to have this gathering.
So, it is not a question of the president or the color of the president. But it is true that President Obama has tended to tilt toward the investment bankers more than he's been tilting toward brother Jamal and sister Latisha on the block. That concerns me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Dr. Cornel West and Tavis Smiley. Thank you very much for that interesting conversation. And I want to tell you, we asked for the White House, a representative, but we did not get one.
Talk about a sticky situation. A skunk, that's right, gets stuck. An open jar of peanut butter is just too much temptation. But will the skunk's rescuer regret this? Can you imagine? They are stinky little fellow.
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LEMON: If you are flying British Airways this weekend, you might want to make sure you've got a plan B. A three-day strike by a British Airways cabin crew -- well, it is underway right now. The airline is operating roughly half of its flights. British Airways and its affiliates serve more than 75 countries. It's Unite, their union, and the airline have been at odds for more than a year now over changes to cabin crew pay and also working conditions there.
Pope Benedict XVI says he is truly sorry for a scandal that has rocked the Roman Catholic Church. In a pastoral letter to Ireland's Catholics made public today, the pontiff said he was deeply disturbed by the revelations of a decades-long cover-up of child sexual abuse by priests. But some of these victims say the apology is not enough.
Have you seen this video? It is a massive sandstorm in Beijing. Look at that. The thick cloud of sand made it hard to breathe, hard to see and even grounded flights at Beijing's airport today. People were told to stay indoors because the air quality was so bad. But as you can see, many people didn't listen to that. They donned their masks and they went out.
Make sure you stay with CNN throughout the weekend for the coverage on the crucial vote. I want to tell you that our special coverage begins tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. "STATE OF THE UNION WITH CANDY CROWLEY". Make sure you tune in then. We'll be covering it all day long for you.
So, listen, I want to tell you this. Everybody knows to stay clear of skunks, right? But when one got stranded in the middle of a four-lane road with a jar on its head, somebody had to do something, or something, a little something, something, as they say. An animal control officer finally came to the rescue. The jar popped off the skunk right off. Fortunately, nobody got sprayed. He went back to stink somebody else up in the very near future, I'm sure.
OK, guys, that was cute.
This was a great show. I enjoyed your feedback. We have great topics. Exclusive breaking news at the top of the show when it comes to the health care reform. Debate going on on Capitol Hill right now. Let's look at some of your -- the exclusive story was Bill Clinton has been enlisted by the White House to try to rally Democrats over to the president's side for this health care reform bill. A lot of people are saying it is going to work. Some say it won't help at all because Bill Clinton wasn't able to get health care reform passed.
A couple of your feedback has to do with that. Let's go real quickly to the board here. You are talking about Tavis Smiley and Cornel West. "Obama needs to focus on all Americans. We need to stop the separation of races and start thinking of ourselves as one."
"Tavis is wrong. The president is the president of the U.S., not president of blacks and leaders in the community should do their job."
Bracket busting in the NCAA tournament, health care reform debate, when we did our little fun thing on that. "Please, this is crazy. This is not a game. This is life and death."
I agree with you. Lighten up, lighten up. We can have a little fun here. A lot of people are dealing with some bad things. Their houses are under water, no health insurance, a lot of things. Some people just need a little fun.
OK. So -- "Nice recap earlier with Bill. These protesters seem more upset about health care reform for all Americans, more so than the so- called cost of it."
"Don Lemon, do you play basketball?"
Not real good at it. I did in junior high school. I think the most I ever scored was like four points a game. Not that good.
Someone said, "Will Bill Clinton help? I don't think so. I think tomorrow someone's going to be very embarrassed because this will not pass."
OK, listen, thank you. Really appreciate it. See you back here tomorrow, 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Have a good evening, everyone.
