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Barack Obama Makes Case for Health Care; States File Lawsuit Over Health-Care Law; What Does Health Reform Mean to You?

Aired March 23, 2010 - 13:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama looking straight into the camera, addressing the people of the United States on -- of America on a day when he made history by signing the health-care bill into law, extending almost a rally here at the Department of the Interior after having signed the health reform bill.

Let me tell you what's going on. It's a new hour, and we've got a new rundown for you.

Just an hour ago, President Obama signed the health-care reform bill. But you know the saying, it's not over until it's over. The Senate still has work to do. And some senators appear to be in no hurry to get it done.

Get this: a lot of states didn't even wait for the presidential ink to dry. They are already suing the federal government over health-care overhaul. Do they have a case?

Plus, do you travel much? The Transportation Safety Administration says you can help them get more efficient. You just have to let them track your wait time and your walk time at the airport via your cell phone. Is this an invasion of privacy or the best airport idea yet?

Plus, how do you say "no more censorship" in Mandarin? Google turns off its filters in China. Is this the dawn of Internet freedom for the Chinese people, or will it put them even more in the dark?

Well, the Democratic health-care overhaul is now the law of the land. Let at the debate begin. Yes, you heard right. Almost nothing in this yearlong process has gone according to "Schoolhouse Rock," and that applies to the presidential signing of the bill.

It is known formally as the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. As you may have seen live here on CNN, President Obama formally and happily enacted health-care reforms narrowly passed by the House on Sunday night.

Now, in keeping with tradition, he used a lot of pens. He signs a letter, takes another pen -- watch this -- does it again. All right. By our count, about 20, and then he gave those pens out as souvenirs to the bill's most prominent supporters. This is common on large, important bills.

Now, just minutes ago, the whole party moved to a larger room at the Interior Department, where the president was speaking as we started this show. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I said this once or twice, but it bears repeating: if you like your current insurance, you will keep your current insurance. No government takeover. nobody's changing what you've got if you're happy with it.

If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. In fact, more people will keep their doctors, because your coverage will be more secure and more stable than it was before I signed this legislation.

And now that this legislation is passed, you don't have to take my word for it. You'll be able to see it in your own lives. I heard one of the Republican leaders say this was going to be Armageddon. Well, you know, two months from now, six months from now, you can check it out. We'll look around, and we'll see. You don't have to take my word for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Now ordinarily, that would be that. Supporters and critics alike would get on with their lives. They'd move on to other topics. But that's not going to happen this time.

Right after the House passed the Senate's version of reform, it passed the companion bill that changes the first bill in a lot of important ways. Let me just tell you about this.

Most Democrats would not have backed the bill otherwise. But now the Senate has to pass those changes and make them into law. I want to take a minute to break some of those down.

Now this is the so-called reconciliation measure, making these two bills make sense. The measure tweaks the fines that Americans who don't buy insurance are going to pay. By 2016, it will be $695, or 2.5 percent of your income, whichever is greater.

It also raises fines on employers that don't offer insurance coverage. In 2014, that's going to amount to $2,000 per employee.

It gives seniors a one-time $250 rebate to Medicare. These are people facing the Medicare doughnut hole that we've talked to, talked about overtime, that doughnut hole is going to disappear. But initially, it gives a $250 rebate and it aims to close the doughnut hole sometime after 20.

The other thing that the Senate bill, the Senate is going to have to look at are changes that killed the widely-hated Cornhusker Kickback. You may have heard about that. It promised Nebraska, and only Nebraska, that Washington would cover all the costs of expanding Medicaid. The new bill boosts Medicaid funding for all states.

On the revenue side, it -- the -- the changes will delay a tax on high-cost plans. And it will also raise the definition of high. It raises Medicare payroll tax on high earners, and it adds a 3.8 percent tax cut on investment income. Again, these will kick in a little bit later.

These are important, because it only affects sort of the top 5 percent of earners, but it is a significant increase in tax. And some of that tax increase has nothing to do with Medicare or Medicaid. It has to do with investment income and rental income.

The Senate plans 20 hours of debate, which Republicans plan to drag out or even derail to the maximum possible extent. But the Senate floor is only one front in what has become a multifaceted campaign of opposition even after this bill is signed into law. We're going to dig into that opposition right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: The health-care reform bill, one of them is, anyway, signed into law, but President Obama still plans to stump for it hard. He'll visit Iowa on Thursday to remind Americans what reform means to them and when.

And here's why. A CNN poll taken last weekend shows that only 39 percent of Americans like the Democratic overhaul; 59 percent oppose it. You're going to hear a lot of people talking about that. And I want to just break that down for you for a second.

Of the people -- this is -- these are the health-care bills before the House and Senate -- 39 percent of them polled before the final vote on Sunday favor the bill. Forty-three percent of the people polled oppose it because they find it too liberal. Thirteen percent oppose it because it's not liberal enough. So the number that you hear quoted, the 59 percent of people who oppose the bill, we have to make sure that you understand that it is a combination of these -- both of these groups.

All right. About the people who are critics of the bill, they're hoping to somehow derail the reconciliation measure that is now being debated in the Senate. But that isn't the only battleground against health care.

Take a look at this map. Thirty-six of 50 states -- these are all of the states that are in red -- are taking up legislation is aimed at countering at least some of the federal reforms encompassed in the bill that was passed on Sunday night.

Three states have passed anti-reform bills already, the three that you're looking at. But there's more. Fourteen states' attorneys general are now filing lawsuits, actually have filed a lawsuit claiming that health-care reform is unconstitutional to require -- it is unconstitutional to require Americans to buy health care.

I've got the lawsuit in my hand right now. It is filed by the attorneys general of Florida, South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Utah, Louisiana, Alabama, Michigan, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Washington, Idaho, and South Dakota. And let me just read you one of the salient points in the lawsuit, No. 2 -says, "The act represents an unprecedented encroachment on the liberty of individuals living in the plaintiffs' respective states by mandating that all citizens and legal residents of the United States have qualifying health-care coverage or pay a tax penalty."

Here's the salient part: "The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate, either directly or under the threat of penalty, that all citizens and legal residents have qualified health- care coverage. By imposing such a mandate, the act exceeds the powers of the United States under Article I of the Constitution and violates the 10th Amendment to the Constitution."

So that's a part of it. A 10th Amendment fight against health care, saying that the Constitution does not allow the federal government to impose either mandatory health care or a tax or a penalty if they don't get it.

Now, joining me to talk about the legal fight, state's rights and the Constitution is Rene -- Renee Landers, a health and administrative law professor at Suffolk University.

Renee, thank you for joining us.

RENEE LANDERS, LAW PROFESSOR, SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY: Thank you very much for having me.

VELSHI: Is there any -- does this make sense? Is there a legal basis to this fight?

LANDERS: Well, I think these claims are the claims that one would think of to bring -- to challenge the health-care reform statute. But if the courts -- if the federal courts follow existing precedence of the United States Supreme Court, I don't think that the claims will be successful.

VELSHI: Well, at the heart of it, they're trying to make it -- you know, state the case very simply. And that is this is not a right that was given to the federal government under the Constitution and, if the federal government is not given explicitly some right under the Constitution, they don't have the right to take it. Does that argument make sense?

LANDERS: No, it doesn't. Under the court's existing precedence, the Congress has expansive power under the Commerce Clause, which is the Article I claim, to regulate interstate commerce. And it's hard to argue. There have been a number of court decisions that have defined the provision of health-care services and the provision of insurance -- the sale, you know, and distribution of insurance products, as commerce under -- subject to federal regulatory activity.

And so the court has never demanded that the Constitution, you know, have a detailed list authorizing Congress to engage in certain activities. The commerce power is very broad. The Constitution also gives Congress the power to tax and spend on behalf of the general welfare of its citizens. And the court has been very liberal -- even -- at least as liberal in interpreting the tax and spending power.

So, for example, the Congress can condition the states receiving federal funds on, you know, taking some steps to conform with federal law and also could, you know, preempt state regulation if states don't regulate insurance products, for example, in a certain way.

VELSHI: Well, part of the problem here, of course, is that there has been such uncertainty about what the changes to health care are going to mean for businesses and for individuals, and things like this provide greater uncertainty.

So I want to continue our conversation. Renee, stay right there. I'm going to come back after break. We're going to talk a little bit more about how this lawsuit might progress and how it may have an impact on the -- on the ability to put this health-care reform into place.

Stay with us. You're watching CNN and our extensive coverage of health-care reform.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: OK, as I told you, 13 states have filed a lawsuit. Another state is expected to file separately. But 13 states have filed a lawsuit against the United States government, against, specifically, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Labor Secretary Hilda Solis in their official capacity as cabinet secretaries.

The -- the suit is meant to say that they do not want the impositions. The federal government does not have the right to impose a mandate mandating all citizens to have health care or pay a tax or a penalty.

I want to continue the conversation I'm having with Rene Landers. She's a professor of health and administrative law.

Renee, I don't know if you've sort of been around for large-scale legislation like this. Is this to be expected? Is it routine? Is it the kind of things that the state is doing to protect certain of their rights? And how does it get resolved?

LANDERS: Well, I think that you can see, when any kind of massive federal statute like this is enacted, that there will be legal challenges to it. And I think that, you know, we've seen this before in other contexts. So I don't think it's at all unusual.

I think probably the -- the number of states that, you know, sort of immediately challenged the statute, even before many of the provisions have gone into effect, is perhaps a little bit unusual. But, again, there's been a tremendous lead-up to the enactment of the statute. VELSHI: Right.

LANDERS: So it can -- it can be ready.

VELSHI: Well, here's -- there are two approaches. There are these 13 states that have filed this case, plus Virginia. So 14 states that are filing lawsuits about the legality of it. And I can sort of see why a state's attorney general would like to get clarity from the court on that.

There are other states that are actually enacting legislation so that some of the provisions of the health-care reform bill will not be effective in their states. One seems highly political. This one seems like something that maybe is procedural that they're doing to ensure that the government has the right to do this in their states?

LANDERS: Well, I think that the -- that the two things are sort of two sides to the same coin.

VELSHI: OK.

LANDERS: I think that the state legislation -- I just don't see how it could possibly have any effect, because the Supremacy Clause gives -- you know, gives preemptive authority to federal statutes that conflict with state statutes.

So on those -- I think those statutes really will have no force. And in order to make them effective, you know, there would have to be litigation over, you know, which law, the federal law or the state law, would control in a particular situation. I think the federal law would obviously control.

VELSHI: Let's take this back a long way to states' rights legislation.

LANDERS: Yes.

VELSHI: When you go -- when you go to some of these Tea Party rallies or anti-health-care reform rallies, you see the rattlesnake and the "Don't Tread on Me." Is there an argument to be made about states' rights quite simply? That this is just not an area in which the federal government is allowed to make laws?

LANDERS: I think it's a weak argument. I wouldn't say that there's no argument there. There's sort of two aspects of the argument. One is sort of interfering in areas that have traditionally been subject to state regulation. But we talked earlier about the way the courts have been given expansive interpretation of Congress' power under the Commerce Clause, and the taxing and spending power to -- to make regulations for the general welfare.

And them second, there's a second issue having -- regarding the state governments themselves. This -- the court has referred to it as the anti-commandeering principle, that the federal law cannot command state governments to do things to take -- give full effect to federal policy. And here, I just don't see that happening here, because the federal -- the requirements on state governments are conditioned on federal spending. And, second, the courts have been -- have been clear in cases, in recent cases, that state governments as employers can be required to follow the same federal laws, employment laws that other employers have to follow.

Now of course, all -- what I'm saying depends on the Supreme Court and the federal courts...

VELSHI: Right.

LANDERS: ... adhering to these existing precedents.

VELSHI: All right. So what you're saying is that this isn't going to be a dull discussion. One way or the other, this is going to be interesting for legal minds and for the rest of us.

Thank you so much for coming to talk to us a little bit about this. It's going to get interesting. Renee Landers is a professor of -- a professor of health and administrative law at Suffolk University in Boston. Thank you for being here, Professor.

LANDERS: Thank you very much.

VELSHI: All right. Let me check up on some of the stop stories that we are following for you here at CNN.

Sales of existing homes, or used homes you might call them, the ones most of us live in, fell slightly in February. And that was a third straight month of drops. The National Association of Realtors says that home resales dropped six-tenths of a percent last month. That is less than was expected. But it's still a sign that the housing market in this country remains fragile.

In New Jersey, two men have been charged with killing five teenage boys more than 30 years ago in Newark. The professors -- prosecutors say the suspects locked the victims in a house and burned it to the ground. Investigators got a tip about 18 months ago that led to the arrests.

And in Washington, with the stroke of a pen, actually a bunch of pens, President Obama signed the landmark health-care reform bill into law today. Among other things, the measure extends coverage to 32 million uninsured Americans, and it bans insurance companies from denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical problems.

And when it comes to health care, we've been tossing around words like "sweeping overhaul" and "historic reform." But for a moment, we want to think smaller, actually, substantially smaller. What does health-care reform mean for someone just like you? Elizabeth Cohen is standing by, our senior medical correspondent. She's got some answers, and when we come back from this break, she's going to tell us what it means for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELSHI: OK. We really are covering the whole range of health- care reform. And I guess one of my favorite parts is when we talk to Elizabeth Cohen, our senior medical correspondent, because Elizabeth, you've dedicated yourself in the last several weeks to explaining this in ways that relate to everyday people. Because while I understand the politics of all of this, I'm still not entirely sure how health- care reform -- what impact it's going to have on my costs, my insurance.

You've got some avatars, some people.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Some made-up people.

VELSHI: With specific -- right.

COHEN: That's what we do. We made up people to try to illustrate what it means to them.

VELSHI: And just -- just to tell you where my mind was, I thought these were the Middle-Income Martinis.

COHEN: Yes.

VELSHI: They're actually the Middle-Income Martins.

COHEN: That's right. Ali put an "i" in there.

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: Yes, you certainly did. OK. Well, they're the Middle- Income Martins. They earn about $88,000 per year.

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: And they get insurance on their own. They don't get it through their employers.

VELSHI: OK.

COHEN: And so what they're wondering is, what's going to happen to their premiums? Are they going to go up or down? And what I'm here to tell you is that, according to the Congressional Budget Office, their premiums will likely go up. They are too wealthy to qualify for these subsidies...

VELSHI: Right. Right.

COHEN: ... that you and I have talked a lot about. I can't tell you if their premiums are going to go up a lot or a little.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: But likely, their premiums are going to go up.

VELSHI: And the logic here is that they don't get subsidies, and health-care costs are going up. And as a result, health-care premiums are generally going up. So the only way you're going to see a reduction is if you're in the world of getting subsidies.

COHEN: Subsidies, right, exactly, exactly.

VELSHI: OK.

COHEN: And people who make less than $88,000 do get subsidies.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: That's a big group of people.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: But the Martinis over here, they are not happy...

VELSHI: That's why -- that's why they need their martinis.

COHEN: They do.

VELSHI: Their premiums are going up.

COHEN: They definitely do.

VELSHI: Show me a guy who looks a bit like me with hair.

COHEN: OK.

VELSHI: Bad-Back Bob.

COHEN: Bad-Back Bob.

VELSHI: Seriously, if you took the hair off of this guy, it's like a dead ringer for me.

COHEN: It does looks suspiciously like you. I might have to investigate this.

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: OK. Well, as you can see, Bob has a bad back. And he has not been able to get insurance.

VELSHI: OK.

COHEN: His employer doesn't offer it and, because of his back, insurers don't want to get anywhere near him.

VELSHI: Sure.

COHEN: Because he's expensive.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: I mean, back surgery... VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: ... costs a lot of money.

VELSHI: And sometimes a lot of ongoing treatment, like many conditions. Yes.

COHEN: Absolutely. He's not the best friend of the insurance companies.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: So what's going to happen immediately, like within the next three months, is that he's going to get to join a high-risk pool...

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: ... which is sort of a fancy way of saying like a group of people who get together and buy insurance.

VELSHI: People in Southern states might know. There's place where you've got wind pools for hurricanes...

COHEN: Yes.

VELSHI: ... where you can't get normal insurance, but you join a pool, because there are a lot of you, and that's how you get your coverage.

COHEN: Exactly. So there are a lot of Bad-Back Bobs out there.

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: It's just that they haven't really pooled together before.

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: So this is really kind of a first. And then what's going to happen is eventually, by 2014, is that private insurance companies, the Blue Crosses, the Aetnas, all those people...

VELSHI: Yes.

COHEN: ... they're not going to be able to say no to him.

VELSHI: OK.

COHEN: They don't like him, but they're going to be forced to say yes to him.

VELSHI: And the content is lots of people are coming into the process. So there will be lots of Bad-Back Bobs, but there will be all sorts of people who are mandated to get health-care coverage...

COHEN: Right.

VELSHI: ... who are actually quite healthy. So that should help the insurance companies, and that should, if you get your fingers crossed, bring premiums down for more people later on.

COHEN: That's the theory, is that you just have to hope that all the economic theories that are out there actually come true.

VELSHI: Now Bad-Back Bob is -- we didn't talk about his income, right? So we don't know where he falls into this. His issue is that he's got a bad back.

COHEN: Right. He could be a millionaire...

VELSHI: Right.

COHEN: ... and he cannot get insurance right now because nobody wants...

VELSHI: Right, OK. Because he's got a pre-existing condition.

COHEN: Right, exactly.

VELSHI: All right. Very interesting. Thank you for doing this. I think you're probably going to be doing a lot of this type of thing, where we're just trying to figure out what this means to everyday people.

We're committed to doing this to you. By the way, go to my Facebook page, if there are specific things you want to know, I'll pass them on to Elizabeth and we'll figure out about this.

Now, listen, another topic that we've been covering a lot that you may know about and may have more details, what is going on in Mexico? Why does it appear that the violence in Mexico has spiked again? Well, there's some very, very important people who are putting their mind to it in Mexico today and we're going to tell you what they're doing and whether it could have some meaningful results when we come back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Fighting a war next door. With each week, more drug- related deaths are reported in Mexico. More than 500 people have been killed in Juarez this year alone, that includes an American consulate worker and her husband who were gunned down two weeks ago. At least 18,000 people have been killed in drug-related murders since Mexican President Felipe Cauldron launched an offensive against drug traffickers in December of 2006.

Now why should you care? Because some of these same drug cartels responsible for the murders in Mexico are operating in the United States. Take a look at how wide spread these cartels are. I hope you can get -- Mark, are we able to see that clearly on TV? It seems a little lacking in contrast here. From Alaska to Wisconsin, you can see these little red dots. They're affiliates. These people have infiltrated the United States. You can see along the borders, there are a lot of them, but you can see they've penetrated far north in to the northeast and southeast. Cities as far north as Everett, Washington, Helena, Montana, St. Cloud, Minnesota, Greenville, New Hampshire. The number of the drug cartels are growing.

Why? Why do drug cartels ever grow? It's about supply and demand. As demand for illegal drugs grows in the United States, more money can be made. More competition between cartels and more people get killed. Now the goal is to break this deadly chain by combating drug trafficking and killings in Mexico. That's the idea behind a major meeting in Mexico City today.

CNN's Kate Bolduan joins us in Washington with more on that. Kate, there are surprisingly big players at this meeting in Mexico. What are they trying to get done?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're big even when they travel by themselves and they're traveling as a group down there, Ali. This is a high-profile team traveling to Mexico today to meet with their counterparts as well as the Mexican President Felipe Calderon all trying to tackle the escalating drug violence problem you mentioned near the U.S.-Mexico border.

Here is the group we're talking about here. This is being led by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates as well as Homeland Security Janet Napolitano. But that's not all, we're talking about other top U.S. Officials, the Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, the President's Assistant on Counterterrorism and Homeland Security Issues, John Brennan and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen.

Secretary Napolitano briefed reporters on the way down today and she said it's a strong delegation to the U.S. Commitment to work with Mexico to enhance anti-drug operations. In her words, she said, quote, "This is a real deal," she says. "It has been over the past year, but we want to keep working together," she says. In part today, the Secretary of State will be leading a discussion on the ongoing efforts as well as the evolution, really, of the work by U.S. and Mexican officials to break the power of drug trafficking organizations.

The goal is really to lay out the shared security concerns and what the two governments can do about it and that's a very big question to tackle. Ahead of today's trip, the State Department said that the focus of the meetings was cooperation and coordination with the heavy emphasis on co-responsibility that the two-countries share in the fight against drug-related violence.

You talked about it, Ali, but it's worth noting. These meetings have been planned for months, but the recent killings earlier this month of the U.S. Consulate worker in Mexico and her husband really underscore the urgency of the situation and real need for solutions. VELSHI: Yes, and this is definitely for people who follow this casually, they'll notice a real uptick in the news about these killings and the degree of violence. I guess, it's puzzling to some people because it seems that lawlessness has sort of overtaken some of these towns, particularly on the border.

BOLDUAN: What you will hear from U.S. officials and you can be sure you'll hear from Mexican officials is they're really taking this on, and they have been, over the past few years. They have a big initiative that's really pumping a lot of U.S. money in to helping with equipment and support and training for Mexican officials to help battle this. But as you can see the drug cartels, they have a lot of money as well and that's where the big clash is.

VELSHI: Good to see you Kate, thanks very much. Kate Bolduan at our Security Desk in Washington.

All right, when we come back, Gary Tuchman is going to join us. He spent a weekend in Juarez. We're trying to get a feeling of what it's like to be on the ground there. Is it a place under siege? Is this story overblown? Gary is going to tell us. He knows what it looks like. He's standing by. We'll talk to him right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Well, listen, as we've been talking about drug-related deaths are all too common in Juarez as the city continues to be ground zero in the war against drug trafficking. Gary Tuchman spent the weekend there. He joins us from New York.

Gary, everybody who watches CNN knows you go in to the toughest situation, whether it's weather or crime. I'm curious from your perspective what it was like to be in Juarez. I'm curious as to whether when you see these pictures on TV about police and houses cordoned off and ambulances, does it feel like a place under siege?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The answer, Ali, yes, it feels like a place under siege. A lot of times, when we do stories about cities, state, counts, that have negative news and we have the Chamber of Commerce people, mayors and the governors, why did you do that? That's not true. Nobody says that in Juarez. They know things are very bad.

As a matter of fact, in the first two months in this year of 2010, there have been more murders in Juarez, Mexico than there were all last year in New York City and New York City is six times it population of Juarez. They're on the rate right now of getting 2700 murders in a city which only had 1.3 million people. And it's all because of the battle between two rival cartels, the Juarez cartel, the Cineloa cartel and they don't mind making it hell on earth for the civilians who live there.

And that's one thing you're wondering about I'm sure if people live their lives. The fact is yes, the Wal-Mart was very crowded while we were there, movie theaters were very crowded, but you see the parks and the playgrounds, and the skateboard parks, and they are very few people, very few children who are out. You talk to parents and they say, "I want my child to live a normal life, but I'm afraid."

And the fact is when we there, Ali, within three hours of a beautiful Saturday afternoon, we were at three scenes of what appeared to be drug-related executions. People lying on the streets, people with bullet holes in their heads. We went to a mass grave that was in the desert a half an hour outside of Juarez where five bodies were found, one without a head, one with handcuffs attached to the arm. It's a gruesome, sad situation.

VELSHI: What's the effect? And we always think about this when we talk about a place where there's a lot of drug money, the cartels with lots of money. What's the effect of that money on trying to do legitimate business or get a -- you know, get legitimate courses of work in Juarez? Is everybody influenced? Is there money that flows to police and judges and people trying to do business?

TUCHMAN: Well, you bring up a really important point. That is most people believe that most of the police officers before -- not today, but before were corrupt and were working with drug cartel members. They got paid very little money. The temptation was great. And the feeling is among people who run the city today is that the drug cartels couldn't have had the success they did without police working with them.

So the mayor of Juarez today is a guy by the name of Jose Reyes Ferriz. Mayor Ferriz got rid of most of the police officers, the corrupt one. They hired the new police officers, they raised their salaries to $10,000 U.S. a year, which is a lot of money for Mexico. He believes he's on the right track, but he made serious enemies with the drug cartels.

Two weeks ago, the drug cartels sent him a note. They sent a pig's severed head with a note that says, if you don't leave the job, you only have two weeks to live. Those two weeks end tomorrow. Now, we spent the day on Saturday with the mayor just seeing what he goes through. I want you to listen to what the mayor had to say to me about the fears he faces.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Do you look over your shoulder while you're driving? You know you're a target.

MAYOR JOSE REYES FERRIZ, CIUDAD JUAREZ, MEXICO: Yes, I don't. I can't worry about that. I need to do a lot of work -- there's a lot of work that needs to be done in Juarez, and I'm doing all of that work that I need to do.

TUCHMAN: So you ignore what possibly could happen to you while you're driving around the city.

FERRIZ: Yes, I have a good staff that keeps my security. They're very well trained. They're very loyal. And -- TUCHMAN: And you trust all of them?

FERRIZ: I trust all of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Wow.

TUCHMAN: I personally felt, Ali, while driving with him it was one of the least safe places to be in Ciudad Juarez. I should tell you that his driver by his side, not even hidden, the driver had an automatic rifle next to him. We were followed by other aides with rifles and that vehicle that we drove in was an armored vehicle.

VELSHI: And this expires tomorrow. The warning two weeks is tomorrow?

TUCHMAN: He got the note two weeks ago Wednesday. He's gotten other threats before. He points it out. It makes him less scared. He's gotten other threats since he's been in office. His term is up in October under Mexican law, you can only have one term as the mayor of a Mexican city so his term is up in October, and he'll step down in October and go back to his private life as an attorney. He says he ain't stepping down before October.

VELSHI: Well, this is a remarkably interesting story for everybody. Gary, you're the kind of guy that can be put on a story that's not interesting and make it interesting because you're one of the best story tellers we have. If you want to see more of Gary's story on the violence in Juarez, tune in tonight on AC 360 at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Gary, thanks very much. We'll be watching you tonight.

All right, let me check on some top stories that we're following here at CNN. The ink is barely dry on the historic health care overhaul bill. President Obama signed the legislation in to law in the White House just a short while ago. But 14 states are already suing the federal government over the sweeping reforms calling them unconstitutional.

Later today, Mr. Obama meets behind closed doors with Israel Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. The talks come as the two allies are at odds over Israel's plan to build new housing in disputed East Jerusalem. Administration officials rebuked Israel for making the announcement during Vice President Biden's recent visit to Israel.

And CNN has obtained an internal Toyota that suggests Toyota knew as early as 2002 that electronic surges may be due to electronic problems and not floor mats and pedals as Toyota has insisted. Toyota called the allegations baseless. The document was given to CNN by attorneys now seeking a nationwide class-action lawsuit against the company.

When we come back -my God, it's spring and there's still snow! Chad's looking in to it. He'll tell us where it is and how much longer this is going to last when we come back.

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VELSHI: Very good, good to see you, my friend.

Listen, everybody wants some free money, right? You want free money too. So I'm going to go over to T.J. Holmes who is staffing the Stimulus Desk this week. And when we come back, T.J. is going to tell you how Americans are getting more money back on their tax refunds because of stimulus. Maybe you want to be a part of that. So you can tell us how to make some money when we come back.

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VELSHI: All right, right here at the Stimulus Desk, T.J. Holmes is working it with me, and he's got something interesting. It's tax time.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

VELSHI: I have not gotten my taxes done yet.

HOLMES: You're going to love this.

VELSHI: This is good. This is actually good information, because I might get more money. Tell me about it.

HOLMES: Yes, the Stimulus Desk is telling you how the government is spending your money. This time we're trying to get some money back. Recovery Act, now whitehouse.gov, everybody knows the Recovery Resources is online, but you can go to whitehouse.gov. They have a tax-saving tool, and, Ali, this is set up as easy as can be.

Simply get started and it will go through and ask you a series of questions. Single, those were the days, weren't they? We'll pick single for the sake of this segment. How much money do you make? Let's say you make less than $45,000, it pops up and explains to you right there, hey, because of what you entered, it shows if you are working you get $400 back. If you are a married couple, you get $800 back. The tax credit that was handed out. And you simply go through step by step. You remember there was some relief for those --

VELSHI: Yes.

HOLMES: -- If your child is in college. You continue to go through. Have you purchased a home recently, and this is the big one, everybody remember that $8,000 credit. This is when people are going to start to get it back.

VELSHI: This is great.

HOLMES: This is absolutely great.

VELSHI: So you can go if you are getting your taxes prepared by someone else, work through this and go to your tax preparer, it said I might get a college credit or a new home buyer's credit or something else.

HOLMES: You should do this on your own before you go --

VELSHI: Separate from filing your taxes.

HOLMES: You should go and talk to your tax guy. Make sure you are doing it legally, of course.

VELSHI: You might be outside of the income ranges allowed for some of these things.

HOLMES: But this gives you a good way to go about and it lays it out easily for you and make sure you go back and make sure you are not missing money. Tax refunds are up $266 this year because of that Stimulus Act. They came out this week and said that, the White House. So, obviously they're saying people are getting more money and they are pointing to that.

VELSHI: Josh Levs has been doing this for six, seven, eight weeks and he never gives me good news like this, it's grumpy this and spending that and whatever, and you some in the first day and give good news.

HOLMES: It's all about the love.

VELSHI: Nice to see you.

HOLMES: I don't want to start that.

VELSHI: Josh is coming back tomorrow so we love him. Wherever you are, Josh, we love you.

All right, listen, if you happen to be watching us in China and Googling what T.J. is saying, you might be surprised to find out that you are seeing more on Google than you would have seen earlier this week. Things have changed with Google in China. It could mean the dawn of new freedoms for China. It could mean a showdown between Google and the country. We'll tell you about it when we come back.

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VELSHI: Google has made a big play to circumvent the great fire wall of China. The internet giant says it won't play by China's self- censorship rules anymore. Early this morning, Google pulled the plug on its google.cn site. Redirecting all Chinese web traffic to Hong Kong's uncensored Google site. It's been dubbed "G-day".

For now, Google is leaving part of its Chinese research and development and sales department intact, but the ripple effect of yanking the search engine could be far-reaching from the business world to the diplomatic world. We'll break it down for you.

But first, let's look at what went down. For a few hours overnight if you Googled Tiananmen Square or Tiananmen from China, if you're in China, you got results like these, the same pictures that you'd get if you searched from the U.S. Row after row of violent pictures from 1989's bloody massacre. That is a stark difference from the results you got just yesterday from China's version.

Take a look at this, a couple of pictures, this is the same search, you put Tiananmen in and you get pictures of beauty and tourism shots and a few pictures of tanks and there was a free flow of information, but it took China less than 24 hours to start censoring the searches itself.

Now there are reports that China's nearly 400 million internet users are hitting the government firewall, but Google knew what it was signing up for when it moved into China four years ago, so why now is it taking this stand against not censoring itself?

Human rights advocates say Google's move will bring more global attention to China's censorship situation. Still, the jobs of some 700 people that worked at the search engine are on the line. What about the business partners? American computer businesses like Dell and Lenovo. We're banking on those android phones which used sort of a Google engine as part of their push into the Chinese market. What all this means in terms of dollars and jobs remains to be seen. We're keeping a close eye on it.

Here's what' I've got on the rundown for this hour. Do you know Bad-back Bob or Medicare Marlene or the Middle Income Martinis as I dubbed them? You should, they are your friends or your friends or family. They could actually be you or me, I have a bad back. And they all have health care concerns and you'll meet them and how health care is affecting you.