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Historic Flooding in Rhode Island; Bullied to Death: New Details Emerging About Abuses Against Phoebe Prince; Abuse Allegations Against Scientology Leaders

Aired March 31, 2010 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Getting ready to the top the hour.

Pipe bombs are being placed around east Texas in an increasing pace. We're getting that from the ATF. Two more bombs were discovered yesterday in Long View Texas, more than a dozen have been found so far. The ATF is sending more agents to the area now and they've more than doubled the reward for information leading to an arrest.

People forced into shelters in Denham Springs, Louisiana. Their homes evacuated after a massive chemical fire. A warehouse filled with industrial cleaners exploded and burned for nearly four hours. No word on what caused the blast. Police say that residents may be able to go back home later this afternoon.

And it was supposed to be a fun day at the Dade County, Florida, fair, but instead well these two thrill seekers got a different kind of ride. They were stuck on this Space Roller dangling 50 feet into the air. It took about two hours to get them down. Local TV stations say it took that long because fire and rescue crews didn't have a ladder long enough to get to them.

Now, coming up this hour, two stories that aren't exactly uplifting. Sorry about that, but we've got to talk about them. Two schools with something in common, suicide. South Hadley High School in Massachusetts, a 15-year-old girl who dies by suicide. She needed some kind of barrier to protect her from bullies. She didn't get it.

And Cornell University, six student suicides reported this academic year. Fences now up to prevent more, but are these barriers more like Band-Aids for a deeper problem? We're pushing forward both stories this hour.

But first, part of the northeast are still under water. A storm that wouldn't quit has now forced people to leave their homes and Cranston, Rhode Island seems to be getting the worst of it. Reynolds Wolf is there. Reynolds?

REYNOLDS WOLF, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, it's really hard to believe. You know, it's - what's really amazing about this is how quickly these things happen. Yesterday we had a crew out here walking around and doing what we refer to on television as a site survey. And the ground that you see, that I'm sitting on right now was bone dry, but now it's covered with water. We've seen it flow in from the river, past these homes many of which have been evacuated. Some of them just in the last couple of hours where people take the things that mean most to them, the prized possessions, of course, their families, obviously prized possessions, their pets, and they evacuate as soon as possible. It's a scene that's been playing out for many, many people across the region and not just here on Rhode Island.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF (voice-over): Going fishing reads the sign on this front door and they didn't have far to go. Hundreds of Rhode Island residents were forced from their homes by yet another torrential downpour which the governor's office calls the worst in the state in at least a century.

MAYOR ALLAN FUNG, CRANSTON, RHODE ISLAND: It absolutely is a record breaker.

WOLF: All across New England and the northeast, rivers are approaching record levels, but the one everyone is watching is the Pawtuxet river in Cranston, Rhode Island.

FUNG: A lot of it is historic right now. It is unprecedented. We're dealing with something that's been classified as a one in 500- year storm.

WOLF: It's expected to crest this morning at 20 feet, scary high considering that's 11 feet above flood stage. The storm that just sat over the region for days dumped more than eight inches of rainfall in some areas that were already saturated.

RICK COGEAN, CRANSTON RESIDENT: It just started rushing in (INAUDIBLE) and it was like a waterfall. Real bad. So I just said I have to get out.

WOLF: People were trying to shake off the effects of the last Nor'easter. Many people who had just cleaned out the moldy furniture and spoiled food lost power all over again.

COGEAN: (INAUDIBLE) throw the keys on the counter and walk out of the houses and it's at that point now, you know. I mean, four of my neighbors down the street that had U-haul trucks yesterday and moved everything out.

WOLF: It is now the wettest March on record here. Just north of Massachusetts, a state of emergency this morning. National Guard soldiers are filling sandbags. The governor says almost every river in the Commonwealth is at risk right now and just outside New York City, police officers saved a 77-year-old man who was up to his neck in water inside his submerged pickup after driving around a barricade.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF: Now, again, when it comes to roadways and when it comes to vehicles, many roads and I say a few vehicles submerged like the one you see back there behind me. A lot of the roads are in the same condition you're going to see here, covered by floodwaters and even parts of i-95 running right through the state and many others in the northeast have some parts that have been closed off and certainly some rough times to say the least.

Although the skies appear to be a bit cloudy and they certainly are at this time, rain is not going to play a big factor this week and things should begin to dry out and slowly, but surely the waters are expected to recede. That is the latest we have for you. Again, among the climbing waters, not receding for the time being, let's send it back to you in the studio.

PHILLIPS: Reynolds, thanks. Jacqui Jeras, it's going to be so tough for folks there. Hopefully they won't have any more weather like this to deal with and make it worse.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, things do look much improved. And we think that river is cresting out. We just got another reading on the Pawtuxet there, it's only 22.7 and so it's only gotten up a tenth of a foot in the last hour. So we think we're just starting out to peak out as we speak. So hopefully those rivers will go down and there won't be any additional rain, at least not enough to aggravate the flooding situation over the next several days.

A few spotty showers will be possible, but all of the heavy rain is going to stay up here into parts of Maine. There, you can see over the next 48 hours nothing accumulating. So that's some great news and look at some of these numbers. The big red area that you see there, that's anywhere between four and eight inches of rainfall and that was just in a 24-hour period, not to mention what you had for the entire month.

These are March records. Providence, Rhode Island, more than 16 inches. You should have about four inches for the entire month, just to put in perspective, also the wettest March on record for Boston as well as the second wettest of all time. High pressure moves in and it's going to be gorgeous the next couple of days in the northeast. 70-degree temperatures and a complete national wrap-up coming up in about another 30 minutes. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Sounds good. Thanks, Jacqui.

Far beyond school yard taunting. Students stand accused of violating civil rights.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The word bullying is probably not even accurate. I mean, really, when you look at what happened with her, it's persecution. I mean, this thing was a hate crime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And driven to suicide. Why was this cute 15-year-old targeted? We're going to hear from her friends in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Kids can be so cruel. And as we watch this story unravel, new heart wrenching details surrounding a teenage girl's suicide in Hadley, Massachusetts, are coming out. They knocked books out of her hands, sent her threatening text messages and even called her an Irish slut. Now investigators are trying to figure out why would she be a target of such abuse?

CNN's Alina Cho talked with one of her friends.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By all accounts 15- year-old Phoebe Prince was fun, approachable and popular. A pretty, 15-year-old transplant from Ireland with a nice brogue and a nice smile.

(on camera): Why on earth would people want to bully her?

NICK SHENAS, PHOEBE PRINCE'S FRIEND: Jealousy, probably. I would imagine they were all jealous of her because she got a lot of attention from people, positive attention.

CHO (voice-over): Nick Shenas was Prince's close friend and pallbearer at her funeral. He says the cryptic explanation the D.A. gave about why she was allegedly bullied.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It appears to have been motivated by the group's displeasure with Phoebe's brief dating relationship with a male student.

CHO: To friends it's clear.

SHENAS: It was just a whole secret thing. I don't know.

CHO (on camera): They were dating in secret.

SHENAS: Yes.

CHO (voice-over): Shenas says Prince, a freshman caught the eye of a senior, football player Sean Mulveyhill. The two started dating, but Mulveyhill he says already had a girlfriend, Kayla Narey, another student at South Hadley High School. If the two looked familiar that's because Mulveyhill and Narey are among the nine students facing criminal charges in connection with Prince's death.

(on camera): When you saw this on the front page of "The Boston Herald" today what did you think?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: True. I mean, that's been the fight since the beginning.

CHO (voice-over): Darby O'Brien is a spokesman for Prince's family.

DARBY O'BRIEN, PRINCE FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The word bullying is probably not even accurate. I mean, really, looking at what happened with her, it's persecution. I mean, this thing was a hate crime.

CHO: Prosecutors say verbal and physical abuse so severe every day and over several months that on January 14th, Prince took her own life.

In addition to the taunts she allegedly endured in the hallways and school library in plain view of faculty, more details are emerging about her final walk home.

(on camera): She walked hem home -

O'BRIEN: A car went by and threw - one of the girls threw an energy drink at her and they yelled out of the car "you Irish slut, you Irish whore." I mean, supposedly said, "Why don't you kill yourself?"

CHO (voice-over): So when the 15-year-old walked home -

O'BRIEN: She walked into her house, took a scarf her sister had given her for Christmas and hung herself.

CHO: An act that not only ended her life, but shattered the community. People like Shenas' mother, Susan Smith.

SUSAN SMITH, NICK SHENAS' MOTHER: I could not imagine it, honestly. It's unimaginable and to happen in your own town a mile from your house. It's unimaginable.

CHO: How could this happen? Why didn't anyone stop it? Shenas says because Prince was able to hide behind her smile.

SHENAS: It was just like a sense of shock and disbelief, just that something like that can happen to a close friend.

CHO (on camera): But what also is becoming clear is that bullying appears to be part of the culture, the attitude, not my town, not my kids, but that attitude appears to be shifting. Parents are outraged and they're calling for the principal and the superintendent to resign.

Alina Cho, CNN, South Hadley, Massachusetts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Video game so violent, disgusting it's beyond human decency. Check this out. It's called "Rapelay" and it shows girls and women on a subway platform and with the click of mouse, players can stalk them, lift their skirts, rape them and do all types of disgusting things we can't even tell you about. It's been pulled from store shelves, but games like this, that's mainstream in the stores in Japan and because of the internet almost anyone around the world can download them and women activists are mad as hell. They're demanding Japan put the brakes on this kind of content and do a better job regulating game makers.

So is this game just a game or is it a huge outrage? We want to hear from you. Just go to my blog, CNN.com/Kyra. Post your comments and I really would like to read some of them coming up later this hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: It's not exactly drill, baby drill, but in about 50 minutes from now President Obama is poised to unveil sweeping new changes to the nation's domestic energy policy including opening up previously closed coastal areas for expanded oil and natural gas exploration and drilling. The President is expected to announce his revamped energy plan just a few hours from now during an address at Andrews Naval Air facility. You can watch it live right here on CNN at 11:05 Eastern time.

Go ahead, bite the ears. Researchers in Germany say a little chocolate is a good thing and it's about time. They say a bite or two can actually lower the risk of heart attacks. It's all about the flavanols. They recommend dark over milk chocolate, but there is also a warning, don't eat too much. Party poopers.

The mysterious religion made famous and intriguing by Hollywood elite such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta. The former Scientology insiders tell us of beatings and humiliations at the hands of the man in charge. You'll hear what the church has to say about it including ex-wives of some of the accusers coming forward to flat out call them liars.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: This week we've been taking a close look at Scientology, the mysterious religion that boasts celebrity members such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta but we're focusing on what the public doesn't see at least according to former leaders.

Take, for example, the insider accounts from Marty Rathbun, a 27- year-old member and one of the highest-ranking leaders of the Church of Scientology. He left in 2005, but says that while he was there the head of the church routinely David Miscavige routinely beat other high-ranking members of the church. Rathbun says not only did Miscavige brutally kick, punch and choke members of the church's international management team, the sea organization and in particular Mike Rinder, the church's former spokesman. Rathbun also says Miscavige encourage the corporate culture in which other managers were expected to get physical.

Rathbun admits he himself assaulted subordinates but says it was done with the encouragement of David Miscavige himself. As for the church, it vigorously denies the claims asserting Rathbun is a bold- faced liar who was fired because he himself assaulted members of the church.

Tonight as we continue our investigation, you will hear from other high-ranking scientologists saying that David Miscavige was the one behind the violence although the church emphatically denies it.

CNN's Anderson Cooper continues digging. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miscavige was always threats, bullying, haranguing people, verbal abuse, physical abuse. That was his game. He is a bully.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jeff Hawkins was a scientologist for 35 years and a marketing director for the church, he was a member of the sea organization, the group that runs church operations worldwide.

He had dedicated his life to Scientology, a true believer. He earned just $50 a week and lived in church-provided communal housing with other sea org members in California.

(on camera): You've worked with Marty Rathbun, you've work with Mike Rinder. The church told us that they were the ones leading this reign of terror, that Marty was the one responsible for these beatings.

JEFF HAWKINS, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: Absolutely not true. Absolutely not true. David Miscavige was the one leading this whole physical violence kick and it was him who was beating people up.

COOPER (voice-over): Hawkins, who left in 2005, says Miscavige attacked him several times including once during a marketing meeting.

HAWKINS: He jumped up on the conference room table, like with his feet right on the conference room table and launched himself across the table at me. I was standing. Battered my face and then shoved me down on the floor.

COOPER: Tom Devocht was a construction manager for the church. He was only 12 years old when he joined. He left in 2005 because he says he could no longer accept Miscavige's violence.

TOM DEVOCHT, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: Dave asked me a question and I couldn't tell you what the question is today. I don't remember, but the next thing I knew I'm being smacked in the face and knocked down on the ground in front of all these people. This was the pope, you know, knocking me down on the ground.

COOPER: Amy Scobee, a scientologist for 27 years, helped ran the Celebrity Center in Los Angeles, designed to cater to the needs of famous members like Tom Cruise and John Travolta. She says she also left in 2005 but distinctly remembers watching David Miscavige choke Mike Rinder, the church spokesman at the time.

AMY SCOBEE, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: He grabbed Mike around the neck and swings around and is choking him and he's holding his neck and Mike is grabbing the side of his chair and struggling like not knowing what was going on, and his face is turning red and - and the veins are popping in his neck and I'm going, what in the hell is going on?

COOPER: Steve Hall was a writer for the church who left in 2004. He says he saw Miscavige attack Mike Rinder gain in November 2003.

STEVE HALL, FORMER SCIENTOLOGIST: He grabs Mike's head with both his hands, throws Mike off his feet because he's strong and he put his whole body into this, he smacks Mike's head against this cherry wood wall.

COOPER: Church of Scientology spokesman, Tommy Davis, insists that all of these former scientologists are liars. Bitter former sea organization members who were demoted from their positions by David Miscavige. He says Mike Rinder was asked about rumors of abuse two years ago by the BBC when he was still spokesman for the church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had been asked these same allegations and one of his responses was, I'll tell you what, if you come up with that again and show up with one of those crap allegations I'm going to file a complaint.

COOPER: He's talking about this BBC interview in 2007 recorded by scientologists and posted on YouTube just before Mike Rinder left the church.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely rubbish, rubbish, not true, rubbish.

COOPER: But now that Mike Rinder is no longer working for David Miscavige he says he was lying during that interview. He wouldn't appear on camera but he told us that he was physically assaulted by David Miscavige some 50 times. He lied to the BBC he says because he didn't want to lose his career and his church. That doesn't surprise Jeff Hawkins who says when he was in the church he would have never spoken against Miscavige.

(on camera): If you want to stay in the church, you have to do what he says.

HAWKINS: That's right. He literally holds - if you're a scientologist and you believe in Scientology and you believe that the only way to your spiritual salvation is through the levels of Scientology then he literally holds the power of death over every scientologist because he can say you are out of here. You will get no more Scientology services. You're done.

COOPER (voice-over): The church says Hawkins is out to destroy Scientology adding that he supports an anti-Scientology movement called Anonymous, that actively protests the church.

TOMMY DAVIS, CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY SPOKESMAN: These are individuals who have proven not only that they will lie, but that they will get other people to lie. It's not much of a stretch for them to all get together, corroborate their stories and find some other people who left years ago to try and corroborate it even more and then come to the news media and attack the very person who removed them.

COOPER: The church provided us with dozens of affidavits from current and former church member, one-time colleagues of these former scientologists and even their ex-wives. All of these affidavits swear David Miscavige never hurt anyone.

JENNY LYNNSON , EX-WIFE OF TOM DEVOCHT: I slept with Tom Devocht for almost 20 years. I knew every inch of him. I never saw one scratch. I never saw one bruise. I never saw one black eye. Nothing, nor did he complain about anything personally.

COOPER: That's Tom Devocht's ex-wife, Jenny Lynnson (ph). She agreed just this week to be interviewed along with the ex-wives of Marty Rathbun, Jeff Hawkins and Mike Rinder.

Mike Rinder's ex-wife Catherine Bernardini (ph) says he was never assaulted by David Miscavige.

CATHERINE BERNARDINI, EX-WIFE OF MIKE RINDER: I know every square inch of his Mike Rinder's body. I know everything that has ever happened to him, every accident, every time he broke his wrist. I was with him. We've been together all our lives. It's utterly ridiculous and it isn't true.

COOPER (on camera): And you were married to Marty Rathbun.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 15 years. I know that man better than anybody else. Now you've got to understand Marty Rathbun is a liar. He never mentioned it, OK?

COOPER: He says that he did mention it to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he did not. Absolutely not. It's a lie.

COOPER: Catherine Bernardini, your ex-husband Jeff Hawkins, says you have a heart of gold and that you're a good woman and that you stuck with him through some very trying times in Scientology. He does say that you -

CATHERINE BERNARDINI, SCIENTOLOGY SEA ORGANIZATION MEMBER: hold on. He didn't have any trying times in Scientology. It was the best time of his life.

COOPER: She says Jeff Hawkins never said a thing to her about being hit.

(on camera): Did you tell anybody about this? Did you complain about it?

HAWKINS: No. No. No. You don't do that when you're inside the base. You don't do that.

COOPER: Why?

HAWKINS: Well, if you go against Miscavige, if you say anything against Miscavige or you do anything or report on Miscavige you are instantly off the base.

COOPER: And what does it mean to be off the base? It means -

HAWKINS: You are on that rehabilitation project forest or you're sent to a remote location or you're sent to Africa or Australia. You are just gotten rid of.

COOPER (voice-over): Marty Rathbun says he did tell his wife, but never complained to anyone else about Miscavige.

MARTY RATHBUN, FMR. SCIENTOLOGY INSPECTOR GENERAL: He had the power to say you're excommunicated. You'll never see Scientology again. You'll never see your wife again and you'll never see Scientology again. You've devoted 27 years to it and this guy can pull the plug just like that and say you can't ever have it again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Over the past months we've spoken at length with former Scientology spokesman Mike Rinder. He admits getting physical with some church members but says he was constantly told to by David Miscavige. He said that he wouldn't interview with us because he promised his first interview to the BBC.

Once that video is aired he said he welcomes an opportunity to come on our show and share a story. Now tonight on "AC 360," former senior level scientologists claimed physical abuse at the very top of the church, lies. "All lies," says the church. The only abusers were the accusers. Get the whole story in "Scientology: A History of Violence," "AC 360," tonight 10:00 Eastern.

Is it the academics, the nasty New York winters? A combination of both, neither. At least six students at Cornell University have committed suicide. The school's solution, at least the immediate and temporary one, fences over the deep gorges. We reported this story before, but today we're talking to a student and a Cornell official about what's happening there. We're going to get their take on what's happening at school.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: So you remember that inspirational movie "Stand and Deliver" starring Edward James Olmos. Well, we got a little sad at our morning meeting when we talked about the death of the math teacher that almost played -

(VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Jamier -- Jaime Escalante died at his California home yesterday after a battle with cancer. He was 79 years old. Escalante was surrounded by his family, but just the night before, Olmos did come and visit him. His actor friend had recently gone public about Escalante's cancer and held a fundraiser to help his family pay medical costs. Escalante turned the failing calculus program at Garfield High School in East Los Angeles into one of the top schools in the nation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Cornell University student are back from spring break. Campus looks a little bit different than it did when they left. Fences over the school's beautiful -- tragically beautiful gorges. Security guards keeping watch. Barriers, deterrents for would-be jumpers.

At least six Cornell students have killed themselves this year. Another body still down in the gorge somewhere. Why the students did it, no one can say for sure. Cornell had a similar problem about ten years ago.

The new fences are tangible evidence that the school is trying to do something about this. Campus paper calls them "an unfortunate necessity," but some students think they're just a steel ban that make a bad situation worse. One student even said they make Cornell look like an insane asylum.

Justin Richmond Decker has started a Facebook group for students who don't want the bridges. It has more than a thousand members now. We're talking to him. We're also talking to Dr. Susan Murphy. She's Cornell's vice president for student and academic services. Also in just a few minutes we will bring in Howard and Sherry Ginsburg. Their son, one of the cornell students, who took his own life.

Justin, let's go ahead and begin with you. Why do you and these thousand students that signed up on your Facebook page not want the fences there?

JUSTIN DECKER, CORNELL STUDENT AGAINST NEW FENCES: I'm sorry, what?

PHILLIPS: Can you hear me okay, Justin?

DECKER: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You can hear me okay, now?

DECKER: Yes, I can.

PHILLIPS: Okay. Go ahead and tell us, tell our viewers why you and about a thousand students now that have signed up on your Facebook page do not want the fences there.

DECKER: All right. Well, um, I guess first of all, they're ugly. They've blocked the view of our beautiful gorges, and whenever you walk across the bridges, it almost feels like you're in a prison. And seeing the fences is really just a reminder of the tragedies. Every time we cross the bridge, we just have to think about what happened this year. And I really don't thank that's what we need right now.

PHILLIPS: Justin, even though you don't like them and they're a grim reminder of what's happened there, do you think that these fences could prevent more suicides?

(AUDIO GAP)

PHILLIPS: All right. I apologize --

Oh, there we go. You had frozen for a minute there because we are talking to you obviously via Skype. If you can just stay closer to the monitor, Justin and tell us if you think these fences could prevent more suicides.

DECKER: I think it's conceivable because they have been shown to be effective on, for example, the Golden Gate Bridge. Suicide rates were reduced throughout the whole city once they installed barriers. But that bridge gets at least, like, 100 suicides a year, or attempts, and here the suicide rate is not anywhere near that. And also the fact that it's a campus instead of an entire city makes it a lot easier for, say, the administration to reach out to individuals, where you can't do that in the city. But you can do that at a college. So, I think there are plenty of alternative ways to prevent suicides other than fences.

PHILLIPS: Vice President Murphy, why the fences? Do you truly believe that this will prevent more suicides, and how do you respond to students like Justin that are saying, I mean, I'm looking at the comments here throughout the paper. They're a worthless solution to a serious problem. That it's an insulting response to tragedies that have occurred. That the campus looks like an insane asylum.

SUSAN MURPHY, CORNELL STUDENT AND ACADEMIC SERVICES: First of all, we do know that bridges can be effective in helping curb suicide. Often suicide is an impulsive action on the part of a student or any individual and has been proven through many studies that barriers on bridges are an effective way to restrict that means of death.

As a Cornellian of over 40 years, I happen to agree with Justin. They are ugly. They are not what we want to have around our gorges, and that's why we have them up as a temporary measure at this point while we work on an appropriate long-term solution, recognizing that the gorges are one of the most beautiful parts of our campus.

But they have been in the past and especially this year, tragic places.

PHILLIPS: And can I ask you, vice president, it's not just this crop of students. I mean, the same thing happened ten years ago. I was reading an article from a decade ago calling Cornell "Suicide University." I'm curious, what was done then and why didn't it work? Why is this happening again?

MURPHY: Well, first of all, I obviously take exception to the label. Given our population size wield expect, sadly, to see one to two suicides a year. Suicide is the third most frequent means of death for this age group. And while we know that college campuses are actually protective places compared to the population at large, this tragic demise does happen. We did have a concentration a number of years ago, and that caused us to make many, many changes in our mental health and outreach efforts. And if you look at Cornell's statistics in the first half of this last decade, we actually tracked the national average from 2006 until the first half of 2009. We did not have a single suicide, and we actually have not had a suicide in the gorge going back to 2001. So, I think there have been a number of things that we have done that, in fact, make us a national model for our outreach and efforts to intervene.

But Cornell's been hit with ten student deaths this year from a whole host of reasons. The three most recent, sadly, by suicide. And that caused us to have to take actions that in the past we might not have thought about, but we just had to do something different to intervene in a pattern that was developing.

PHILLIPS: Vice president Susan Murphy, please stay with me. Also, Justin Richmond Decker, please stay with me, as well. We want to continue our discussion now.

Moving on to speak with the Ginsburgs. Their son Bradley, one of the Cornell students who died by suicide. We appreciate both of you joining us. We will bring you into this conversation in 60 seconds. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We'd like to continue our conversation now about Cornell University, its fences and its deeper problem. Six student deaths this academic year ruled suicide. One of them, Bradley Ginsburg. He fell to his death on the Ithaca, New York, campus last month. Bradley was only a freshman. He was from Boca Raton, Florida. His father, Howard, a Cornell alumnus.

Howard and his wife Sherry with me now from South Florida. I really thank you both for being here. I know this is not easy, but boy, what a message you have for other students and also what's happening now on the campus there.

I guess -- Howard, I'll start with you. What do you think about these fences? Is this a smart way to deal with right now?

HOWARD GINSBERG, SON DIED AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Well, Kyra, first of all, I'd just like to say Bradley's death is still being investigated. So, we don't really at this point in time consider Bradley's death a suicide. Had there been cameras at the dorms where there are -- which is so common place everywhere for the safety of the students outside the dorms, we would have been able to know when Bradley supposedly left the dorm, whether he was alone or whether there he was with somebody. But since there were no cameras at the dorms at all, which we were shocked at, we don't know any of this. So, the bottom line is the university needs to put cameras in at the dorm immediately.

Now, as far as the question that you asked, I believe 100 percent that these barriers are needed, and I think they should have been put in a lot earlier. This has always been a danger spot at Cornell, and I have read certain articles that going back ten, 15 years there were discussions about putting these barriers. But because of the situation that as Justin, I think, said because of the beauty and not wanting to do anything, they didn't put them in.

And because of that, you have had student deaths which very likely could have been prevented. Because I think as Susan Murphy said, a lot of these deaths just students just go on an instantaneous thought, and if there were barriers there, then they would have been able to have prevented these deaths.

So, I go for life over beauty, and I don't think that it's really disturbing the beauty anyway of Cornell. Additionally, I would say the university should go even further than just putting barriers at the bridge and put barriers along the gorge because my information is that one student in particular didn't go off the bridge, but went much further down the gorge, and that's where the student allegedly jumped.

So, I think the university has started doing exactly what need to have been done years ago, and I think it needs to do more with putting further barriers there to save lives.

PHILLIPS: Point well made. And Sherry, I've got to ask you, you know, what a -- I mean, your son so handsome, getting A's, had an amazing group of friends. Did he ever say to you, "Mom, I'm struggling. I'm feeling a little depressed. School's kind of tough. There's a lot of pressure on me." Did you ever have any idea that he was struggling?

SHERRY GINSBERG, SON DIED AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY: Absolutely not. Bradley, as you said, the first semester at Cornell he had straight A's. The second semester when he started out he told me his courses were much easier than the first semester. He wasn't under any academic pressure. He was much happier because he was joining AE Pi and he loved the brothers there. And he was just very, very happy, and he showed no signs of anything.

I know from all of the interviews that were done up at Cornell with anyone Bradley had contact with, from the fraternity brothers to the people in the dorm, the same answer was always given that Bradley was always smiling. His nickname at the fraternity was Smiles, and he was always happy and brought happiness to everyone else around him.

PHILLIPS: He really had a beautiful smile indeed. You sure can't argue with that, Sherry.

Let me ask Vice President Murphy, what do you think about Howard's suggestion here, Dr. Murphy, about putting cameras up?

MURPHY: Well, it's one that Howie has told me personally, and I told him that we would take a look at that. We're right now trying to devise the measures we need to take this immediate several weeks while the students remain with us for the semester, and then we will be looking at longer-term solutions. And that is everything from a redesign of appropriate barriers to cameras, as Howie suggested, to academic calendar to the kinds of outreach we do now and want to do more of related to student activities.

So, we had not believed we had the need to do that up to this point, but as I said, things have changed this spring, and so it's on the table for consideration.

PHILLIPS: Vice president Susan Murphy, appreciate your time. Also, Justin weighing in from the student perspective. And even more so, Howard and Sherry Ginsburg. So sorry about your son, and I really appreciate you coming forward and telling us about Bradley. We lift you up and will hope that not another student takes their lives. We really appreciate your time.

H. GINSBERG: Thank you very much.

MURPHY: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: You've heard the riddle what came first, the chicken or the egg? Here's a twist. What came first? The chicken's farm success or the fire that destroyed much of it? The answer may surprise you. Find out what it is in today's example of "Building Up America."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: We've all seen the doom and gloom of the lousy economy, and many of us have felt the impact on businesses. And we want to share a success story. It's an organic chicken farm apparently dealt a death blow by a devastating fire. And then the customers raced to its rescue. Dan Simon has the story of "Building Up America" from Vacaville, California.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALEXIS KOEFED, CHICKEN FARMER: Here you go. Look at that. Aren't those pretty?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Apparently green eggs aren't just found in the Doctor Seuss' classic.

(on camera): You almost don't want to eat it because it's so pretty.

KOEFED: I know.

SIMON (voice-over): We're at the Organic Soul Food Chicken Farm an hour from San Francisco. It's a business that stirs such passion that loyal customers refused, quite literally, to let it go down in flames.

After a fire killed 1,200 chicks and destroyed their coops last September, Alexis Koefed and her husband Eric thought the struggling farm they started just three years ago was finished. (on camera): Did you think you were going to be out of business?

KOEFED: Oh, I was convinced we were done. You know, we already were skating by. Eric had lost his job; we were just living off of this land. That was half a month's income that went up in smoke. And I thought I'll never recover from that. It's just too hard.

SIMON (voice-over): Starting the farm wasn't easy. Alexis and her husband had no farming experience. She was in marketing, he was a structural engineer.

Yet, as soon as they began selling their chicken eggs, many chefs from the finest local restaurants, including Alice Waters from the nationally renowned Chez Panisse said they were among the best they ever

tasted.

ALICE WATERS, CHEZ PANISSE RESTAURANT: And I said if you grow something that really is tasty, I'll buy it off.

SIMON: The farm was saved not just because of its high quality eggs and meat, but also because of its philosophy.

KOEFED: This egg comes from chickens that are probably crammed in cages, maybe eight, ten birds in a cage.

SIMON: She explains by showing us two different eggs: one from a chain grocery store and one from hers.

KOEFED: And this is a chicken egg that she got to lay her egg how she felt like, after being outside eating grass and bugs.

SIMON (on camera): This is what those chefs like so much, what you're seeing right here. The chickens roam the fields freely and eat the natural grass. And that, they believe, makes for a higher quality egg. Eggs they apparently could not live without because when the fire seemingly destroyed the business, her customers got together and said, "We're not going to let that happen."

BONNIE POWELL, FRIEND: We had a fancy auction, we had a raffle, we had several fundraising dinners.

SIMON (voice-over): Bonnie Powell led the effort to raise $30,000 to keep the farm in business.

POWELL: It's kind of amazing how many people just felt touched by this. Like no, we can't let Soul Food Farm die.

SIMON: The farm still struggles to make money, but Alexis loves her land, loves her way of life.

KOEFED: Thank you very much. My husband will be excited.

SIMON: You could say she's just fine putting all her eggs in one basket. KOEFED: Thank you.

SIMON: Dan Simon, CNN, Vacaville, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A game so vile and disgusting that it makes your stomach turn. Players groping, stalking, even raping women and little girls because they think it's fun.

The game is made in Japan, but women's groups around the world are outraged. So are we. Are you? Here's what we got on the blog.

Jessica says, "This should outrage every world citizen as rape is no game. It's a horrific crime that devastates the victim and their families. I think more than just women's groups should be upset about this."

Angie says, "I can understand the outrage, but what I can't understand is how people don't see it's just a video game. It will never be banned because developers can make what they want."

And Wolf says, "Whether or not you agree with the game is not the point. No one will argue that this game is disturbing, so if it bothers you, don't play it."

Remember, we always want to hear from you. Just log on to CNN.com/kyra to share your comments with us.

Tony Harris now getting ready to kick off the top of the hour. I don't know about you, Tony, but when I saw the story, it outraged me.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Not just because I'm a woman, but it's a horrible crime, and it's not a game to play.

HARRIS: And you're going to make a game of it. It's ridiculous. We talked about it a lot at the meeting, as well, and I'm glad you got it on the air and get some comments from folks.

Look, Kyra, 75 degrees. Sunny in Atlanta. You have a great day.

PHILLIPS: All right. See you later.

HARRIS: Hit the golf ball for me.

PHILLPS: I'll try.