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Mining: A Way of Life; Active Part of Rescue of West Virginia Miners Stopped;

Aired April 06, 2010 - 14:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Back with Homer Hickam. He is joining us from Huntsville, Alabama. He's a former miner from West Virginia.

He's written a book on lifestyle and coal miners, and it became a movie. He joins us now with more of a discussion on this.

The economics of being a coal miner, a lot of people think, and you said, perhaps we've got a wrong impression of miners. They're not all poor. And, in fact, the entry wage for a coal miner is quite high, which is probably why people do subject themselves to a job that is somewhat tough to do.

HOMER HICKMAN, FMR. MINER: Well, absolutely. It is a relatively dangerous industry. I don't think it's in the top 10 of the most dangerous, but certainly when you're operating in an area that's very small, has a low overhead, there's a lot of big, heavy machines going on all the time -- and also, in this particular case, you're in a mine that exudes methane. Methane is an explosive gas when mixed with the air, and there's also coal dust in the air. So a lot of things, bad things, can happen.

But I want to tell you that this accident, in my opinion, is some sort of anomaly. We should not have an accident like this in an industry so heavily regulated and so heavily inspected. So naturally I'm very curious to see what might have caused this, and whatever it is, we've got to figure it out and stop it.

VELSHI: You said coal miners are patriotic. They know half of the electricity, more than half of the electricity in this country, comes from coal. It is an essential industry to this country.

We do hear, however, that people generally take the side of the mining company, because that is their livelihood. Most people in a little town aren't going to speak up and say this mining company is unsafe or this mine is unsafe.

Is that true?

HICKMAN: Well, I think that in this day and age, it's much different from it was back in the '50s, when my dad ran a coal mine and the union and the coal company fought all the time. These days, the management of the coal companies have tried to get the workers in as part of one big team and one big family. And naturally, things work better that way. I don't know if that was the case with this coal mine, but certainly that is the managerial approach these days in the coal industry.

VELSHI: Is it your view, though, because there are still some mines that are unionized and some mines that are not, is it your view that unionized mines tend to be safer than non-unionized mines?

HICKMAN: Oh, I don't think it makes any difference these days whether it's union on non-union. It's MSHA, the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

This is a tough, tough regulatory agency, and they are charged to keep these mines safe whether they're union or non-union. I don't know what happened here. Certainly, the inspectors were paying a whole lot of attention to this mine. That's why there were some regulatory problems with it and some fines.

I don't know if that was because of management of the mine had a problem, or if they were working in a particularly dangerous condition. So, all that's going to come out.

But I can flat guarantee you that MSHA is one of our more powerful federal agencies. And they do pay a lot of attention to these mines. So whatever happened here, I consider it an anomaly. But certainly, we've got to find out what did happen.

VELSHI: Right. And sometimes these investigations, like plane crashes, they take a long time because there's a lot of stuff. There's often not one, clear smoking gun.

HICKMAN: Yes, they do.

VELSHI: Homer, thanks very much, and thanks for the work that you've done on bringing something that is such a big part of American history to the forefront.

Homer Hickam is a former miner and an author. Worth reading about his works on coal mines and mining.

All right. It's just past 2:00 p.m. on the East Coast, 11:00 a.m. on the West Coast.

Here's what I've got "On the Rundown."

You just heard from Homer Hickam, talking about the way of life in a mining town. We're digging deeper into the disaster in West Virginia coal country. Twenty-five miners killed in the deadliest mining accident in the United States in 25 years.

Could this have been prevented? Our reporters are there with the very latest.

Plus, it's called not just a recession, but they call it the great recession. And it nearly brought this country to its knees. Now there are signs everywhere -- the Dow is soaring, oil is soaring, at least some people are finding jobs. Is this recession over? Our guests tackle this question for us.

And live from Prague, our Ed Henry is there. Why? Well, he'll join us with the lowdown on w hat's about to happen in "The Ed Henry Segment".

It is the deadliest U.S. mining disaster in 25 years. Twenty- five miners are dead, four are still unaccounted for.

At 4:30 p.m. yesterday, an explosion happened it the Massey Energy Company's Upper Big Branch mine in Whitesville, West Virginia, about 30 miles south of Charleston, West Virginia. The explosion took place during a shift change.

Now, at 2:00 this morning, officials came out and said that the efforts to reach the four miners still unaccounted for have been halted. The amount of methane gas and carbon monoxide inside the mine makes it a safety risk for crews to proceed.

This is what those working on the rescue effort have to do now. This is a very crude representation. There's nothing that's meant to be accurate about this. I'm just using to it explain it to you.

Here's the mountain. The mine is underneath the mountain. There are not roads that make this accessible, so they believe that, hopefully, four of those miners may have been made their way sort of to a secure area.

And in order to get to that, they've got to take bulldozers and clear paths, and then drill a hole down into this area, release the methane gas and the carbon monoxide into the air, and maybe pump in some oxygen so that they can then start the rescue. This likely is going to take two days, maybe more, and they may not be able to start to drill that hole until Wednesday night.

Meanwhile, the other side of the story, the important side, the families.

Our John Roberts spoke with some of them earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE MCKENNEY, DAUGHTER OF MISSING MINER: We want to know -- excuse me -- why we have not been contacted. No one from Massey has called my mother or any of us children, or his mother. He still has a mother at his home grieving.

We don't know where my dad's body's at. We want some answers, and we want them today. We want answers. We're very upset.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Now, Massey Energy, which owns the mine, says their "top priority is the safety of our miners and their families." Let me tell you a little bit about Massey.

They operate 44 underground and surface mines generally in this area. They control 2.2 billion tons of coal reserves in the United States.

Questions have been raised about this particular mine's safety record. Last year, the mine had more than 50 unwarrantable failure violations. Those are serious. And some of those cited were problems with the escape routes for miners and air quality ventilation.

Brooke Baldwin is in March Fork, West Virginia, which is about as close as she can get to the story. She's been following it. She's been talking to people. And she's been trying to get some explanation as to the rescue, which we think is under way.

But, in fact, Brooke, the actual active part of this rescue has been stopped.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. It's essentially, Ali, this two-prong approach. Right?

So, as I explained last hour, the first step has been taking this bulldozer and bulldozing basically to the top of this mountain, to get to this point where they're hoping will be approximately above where one of the rescue chambers are inside, deep, deep, inside this mine. And then that will be. So, that's done.

The next step, then, will be taking this massive drill and drilling deep, deep into this earth surface, some 1,200 feet down. And that's when we're hearing could take one to two days.

Has that process started yet? We don't know.

Just to give you a little bit of color here on the ground, you mentioned it's tough enough for us to talk to CNN Center in Atlanta. We're trying to use satellite phones, and it's tough just even to get reception doing that. It's also a challenge just to try to talk to the officials here on the ground at the Upper Branch mine here in West Virginia.

Just briefly, again, the number breakdown, 25 dead, seven bodies have been taken out and ID'd, 18 still inside. The families, frustrated, angry because who's not here and who -- from what we understand, they have not to yet Don Blankenship, the CEO of Massey Energy who runs this mine.

I'm told he's an hour and a half away in a small town. You better believe we're trying to get in touch with him ourselves.

But just also briefly, Ali, I worked in West Virginia for three years. I have covered coal country. And do you know what this reminds me of, this multigenerational sort of career, this job? You covered the American auto industry in Detroit.

VELSHI: Yes. BALDWIN: And it's kind of like that. You talked to Homer about how it's a very tight-knit, patriotic, multigenerational, very protective group. And as you're about to hear from one family member, this is the only gig in town -- coal mining.

It's a pretty decent salary, $70,000, at a high school. And it's pretty much the only choice for a lot of these people.

VELSHI: Yes. It's a good example to use of the auto industry, places where it promises to be a good job, a good career. And fathers do it, and grandfathers do it, and children do it, and sons do it. There are women involved in it now. But it's a way of life, it's not just a good job.

All right. Brooke, thank you very much. You'll continue to bring us information.

When I come back, we're going to stay in Marsh Fork, West Virginia. I'm going to speak to a woman whose family and friends work in this mine, and they are still missing. We'll hear from her right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Let's go back to Marsh Fork, West Virginia, nearby to where the explosion has taken place.

Lorelei Scarbro is there. She's grown up in the area. She has friends who are still missing in this mine.

Lorelei, thank you for joining me. Our heart goes out to you and so many like you out there.

We understand 25 people have been killed, four are still unaccounted for. Are any of your friends or family amongst those 29 people?

LORELEI SCARBRO, FAMILY AND FRIENDS MISSING IN MINE: I'm sure that I have friends still underground, members of the community. I was very fortunate that when I got home yesterday, I started calling family members. My stepson works at this mine, my nephew works at this mine, and I was very, very thankful that they were home. But I'm sure in this small, tight-knit community that, when the names start coming out, that there will be people that I do have a close connection to, unfortunately.

VELSHI: All right, you -- you know, a lot of this is also a tricky one when -- in a coal town when there's an accident. A lot of people rally behind the company, because the company -- these are company towns in many cases.

You don't rally behind the company. You're not a fan of Massey Energy.

SCARBRO: Well, I work -- Ali, I work for an environmental advocacy organization, and I know a lot of people who have worked for Massey Energy. I know a lot of people who work for Massey Energy today. And I, unfortunately, have gotten an unwanted education about what goes on underground with Massey.

Massey Energy's an outlaw industry in the state of West Virginia, and there are a lot of things that they do where they've put profit before their people. And that upsets me greatly, because those are my people, too.

VELSHI: Now, you were saying because of demand --

SCARBRO: I think the mine --

VELSHI: -- because of the demand for coal workers, that these companies know that they can do things, that there's always somebody to be able to take that job.

SCARBRO: Well, this is the only game in town, Ali. This is the only jobs that there are here.

These jobs, you earn about $70,000 a year. We live in a mono- economy, and there are no other jobs here to be had. So these guys that work these jobs, they have no choices.

You know, they have to go underground, they have to work for Massey Energy, or they can't support their families. And I'm very, very upset at the powers that be, because our politicians, we have very powerful senators and congressmen in the state of West Virginia, and it's their responsibility to advocate for job diversity in the coal fields. And they need to be advocating for clean, green, renewable energy so that the people that we love don't have to go underground again.

VELSHI: But do you feel that Massey Energy has some specific responsibility in this case? Do you think it's something that they didn't do which caused this accident?

SCARBRO: I think Massey Energy's violation history stands on its own. I think anybody that looks at the record of violations for Massey Energy certainly would come up with that conclusion, that Massey Energy, you know, probably is the bad guy here, and is very much responsible for the loss that this community has suffered.

VELSHI: All right. Lorelei, good to talk to you.

Lorelei Scarbro in Marsh Fork, West Virginia.

Thanks for joining us.

And, of course, we haven't gotten any outcomes to any of the research that's been done, any of the investigations into this. As for now, it is a rescue effort, after which there will be some investigation to determine exactly what happened to cause this explosion.

We will be reaching out to Massey Energy for their response to this as well. This is a risky rescue effort. It's going on right now in West Virginia. We'll talk to Dr. Sanjay Gupta about all that, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: When disaster strikes like it has at the Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia, the instinct is to rush in and try to save who you can. But it's just not that simple.

Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is following the rescue and the risks. He's in Marsh Fork, West Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: When you're dealing with the sort of situation that's happened over the last day or so, you know, from a safety perspective and from a rescue perspective, you're dealing with lots of different moving parts, Ali, as I'm sure you've been hearing. Obviously, sort of the primary, possible injuries of a mine explosion.

You have lots of moving parts within the mine itself -- rock, debris. And then you have the concern about the buildup of these volatile gases, obviously a huge concern here.

But even without an explosion, these gases can be a real problem. They can cause people to lose consciousness or, if not that badly, they can cause them to exercise poor judgment. Talking about gases like methane, carbon monoxide.

And then finally, Ali, where people are focusing their attention now, the rescue efforts. That, in and of itself, is a tough problem. I know that people have been talking about the timeline of events recently.

VELSHI: Yes.

GUPTA: But the idea that you're going into a mine with lots of potential volatile gases, trying to make literally second-by-second decisions, how much of an emphasis are you going to put on the rescuers' safety, versus trying to actually perform a rescue operation? These are the decisions that are happening right around here.

I know Brooke Baldwin just now talking about the bulldozing of hills that are going on to try and drill holes into the underground. Think about that. It's an amazing process, an effort that's under way right now.

VELSHI: Yes. And in 2007, we did see six miners died and another three rescue workers died in that attempt. Tom Foreman showed us a very interesting story about how these rescues take place, and the dangers including the coal dust and the methane and the structural collapse that exists when they've got to rescue people. So, this becomes a race against time on one front, Sanjay, but I guess this is always the case when there's a rescue.

You covered so many of these types of things, whether it's earthquakes or hurricanes. There's also a weight given to the rush to get people out versus the safety of the rescuers. It's always hard to figure that one out.

GUPTA: It really is. And some of the things that you're dealing with as far as threat to the rescuers are a bit nebulous, meaning, again, you talked about the exposure to some of these volatile gases and what they can do. At a certain percentage, they may not have that much of an impact, but if you increase that percentage even slightly, beside the potential risk of making those gases volatile, they can have more immediate effects on the body. And, again, someone who is trying to exercise judgments, trying to decide how they're going to proceed in terms of a rescue effort, if, all of a sudden, their judgment is impaired by carbon monoxide or methane, or even the coal dust itself, that can be a real problem.

You know, I covered Sago, Ali, as you know. And we talked a lot about Randy McCloy afterward and the impact that those gases had on his body. He's alive, and they were able to get him out and get him to fresh air, but the impact of those gases is really obviously very significant in a short amount of time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: All right. Let's get a check on some top stories we're following here on that mine rescue.

It could take rescue workers until tomorrow night to drill the first hole at the Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia. An underground explosion killed at least 25 workers. President Obama today expressed his deepest condolences to their families.

Lawyers were scheduled to appear in a Massachusetts courtroom this hour representing three teenagers accused of bullying. The teens themselves were not expected to appear. The defendants are accused of taunting 15-year-old Phoebe Prince, who eventually committed suicide.

And no word yet on whether Toyota will challenge a record $16.4 million fine stemming from recent safety issues. The U.S. Transportation Department is seeking the maximum possible penalty. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said Toyota knew it had a problem with sticking gas pedals last September, but it didn't issue a recall until late January.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: Listen, talking about the recession, it's been a dirty word for months now, responsible for killing jobs, straining family budgets.

Here's the question on everybody's mind: Is the recession over? And those two people you are looking at hopefully are going to give us an answer right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: It feels good for some people. It feels awful for others. Are we still in a recession? This is that tricky time where you hear some people talking about the recession we're in, some people talking about the recession that's over, some people talking about the recovery, some people talking about tough economic times. I want to tell you a little bit about where we stand in this recession.

Most people will tell you we are on a road to recovery. There are some people who will tell you we're not actually on that road to recovery. But of the major components of the economy, the markets are doing particularly well. See in the bottom corner of your screen, the Dow about 10,979, very close to 11,000. Before this recession started, the Dow in October of 2007 had peaked above 14,000. Big recovery, the Dow had been close to 6,000 a year ago, a little over a year ago. So, big recovery in the markets.

Let's take it over to oil prices. You may not like this. It's making your gas prices go up. But the bottom line oil is over 86 dollars a barrel, generally speaking a sign that the economy is robust. The danger, of course, is that when oil spikes, it sometimes causes recession. So, we're hoping that's not the case.

Let's talk about home sales, something that's important to a lot of people, the value of their homes going up. Home sales, pending home sales, that means contracts, homes that haven't actually finished -- but for February, the pending home sales were up 8.2 percent, another good sign. When people are buying more houses, it creates demand.

And, of course, the biggest issue of all, jobs. That's the one that's most important to you. Take a look at the chart of job losses going right back to December of '07, where the recession started, we gained a few jobs. Actually, we lost a few. We actually gained a few -- the zero's in the wrong place. But we've been losing jobs all along. We had a couple of blips of jobs created and then for the month of March, we actually saw real job creation. This is the stuff that matters to most people. This is a picture of this recession.

Now, is the recession over? Does it matter that it's over to you? If you don't have a job, you're still feeling like you're in one. And if you do, you're probably feeling pretty good. Let's bring in CNN's Stephanie Elam, and Lakshman Achuthan, who is the managing director of the Economic Cycle Research Institute. Great to see both of you.

Lakshman, most people don't know you're an economist, but you do this for a living. You have a specific focus, and that is figuring out when receptions are coming, when they're over, where we are in what's called the business cycle.

LAKSHMAN ACHUTHAN, ECONOMIC CYCLE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Right.

VELSHI: So, let me ask you, are we done with this recession? ACHUTHAN: We are done with this recession. It ended by last summer. And I'm -- and I'm saying that based on a very, very objective reading of the key data and measures that define the business cycle. Not something that we dreamed up recently, but something that's been around since the early part of the last century. We use those metrics to date recessions and recoveries --

VELSHI: Right.

ACHUTHAN: -- for 20 countries around the world. We see that in this great recession, 17 countries around the world went into recession. A few missed it.

VELSHI: Wow.

ACHUTHAN: Nine of them have already seen their dates been selected, the recession's definitely over. The U.S. we haven't been able to determine. We know the exact month, because there's a lot of revisions still coming in. As you know, economic data gets revised a lot, and we want to make sure the date sticks.

VELSHI: Right.

ACHUTHAN: But it's clear that it ended by last summer. My best guess is June or July. But -- which makes it a horrible recession, by the way.

VELSHI: Right.

ACHUTHAN: It was a very long recession.

VELSHI: Very long.

ACHUTHAN: But we are certainly out of it, because not only is GDP going up, but also, as you were alluding to there, a very strong trend in recovery and stabilization and then recovery in the jobs market.

VELSHI: OK. Hold on to that for a second. Before we go to the commercial, I want to bring up what the definition of a recession is. And on the other side, we'll talk a little bit about it. A lot of people think it's two consecutive quarters of a decline in GDP. That's Gross Domestic Product. Here's what the official definition of a recession is: "a recession is a significant decline in economic activity spread across the country, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in production, employment, real income and other indicators."

We'll take a break and come back and continue our conversation on whether this recession's over and what you're supposed to do about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Stephanie Elam and Lakshman Achuthan are with me, talking about whether the recession is over or not. I don't want this to sound like some kind of an Ivory Tower discussion, because some of you out there think the economy is getting better, and some of you think it is not very good.

Lakshman said something a minute ago, about how we will probably, when we decide on the dates of this recession, that it will be over last summer. Stephanie, that's going to be amazing to a lot of people, because we're almost into this summer, and there are a whole lot of people still having this debate about whether it's over or on.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I know. That's exactly the issue and something I totally wanted to address out here, because a lot of people out there were going, I'm sorry, I thought unemployment was 10 percent in this country. With 15 million people without a job, how could the recession be over?

But the reason why we care about it and we look at it this way is that recessions, they go from peak to trough. So the recession, when we saw this one start, it was December of 2007. That's when we hit the best, and then we started to decline. So when that decline started, we were in a recession.

But for people who were at that time, things might have felt fine. But now, when you take a look at this part of it, when you recover, things are not necessarily going to feel as good, because the recovery part is still happening. But the recession could be over. For a lot of people out there, that's hard.

VELSHI: Very clear explanation. Lakshman, basically, if we say it ended last summer we get a date or a month for it --

ACHUTHAN: Right.

VELSHI: What that means is that was the bottom.

ACHUTHAN: Right. So, to Stephanie's point, recovering, that we're in a recovery, it hardly means that we're recovered. We have 15 million people out of work.

VELSHI: Yes.

ACHUTHAN: This is why you don't hear the government coming out -- Washington's not coming out saying, hey, the recession's over, because they'd sound like they have a tin ear, right? That would -- all the unemployed people, in particular -- we have a structural problem with a lot of long-term unemployed people who are being left behind by the recovery.

VELSHI: Yes.

ACHUTHAN: And so to say, hey, the recession is over, if you're one of the unemployed, no way, it's still a depression literally at this point. So you have to navigate those two things.

ELAM: The other thing that you have out there, too, you still have a high number of foreclosures that are out there. You still have people having a hard time getting credit. There's a lot of things that factor into what decides if we're in a recession or not. It's not just looking at unemployment. If you take a look at all of those factors together, to paint a more round picture, you can see that there's still a lot of pain out there for a lot of people.

ACHUTHAN: Absolutely. And there's a huge amount of pain for a lot of people. This is part of the reason, if you think back, as I do -- I kind of look around recessions and see what was going on. And in the early 1990s, we were recovering. The recession had ended. And Bill Clinton went into the White House on the phrase "I feel your pain." That's what he was saying. He was speaking to the people who were not feeling the recovery, even though, objectively speaking, the recovery had already started.

VELSHI: Right.

ACHUTHAN: And it's a very important point here that I think we have to deal with, as we're watching a recovery unfold. The key thing is this recovery is sustainable. It's become virtuous, because we're hearing the good news on better jobs. That's going to lift incomes, stabilize incomes nationally, not for everybody, but nationally. Which will make GDP and sales go up. And it feeds on itself. That's what makes it virtuous and simple.

VELSHI: Stephanie, once people start selling more, businesses need to employ more people. Then those people have jobs and they pay. So that's kind of the hope. The hope is, as Lakshman said, it's virtuous. And just like a recession feeds on itself, so does a recovery.

ACHUTHAN: Exactly.

ELAM: Oh, right. And that's exactly what you're looking at. You take a look at how painful this recession was. And it's something that -- obviously, it's not near the Great Depression. But it is one of the longest and deepest recessions that we've seen to date. And just to give you an idea, you know, if you look at 1948 to 1949, 11 months, at the end of the '60s, you had another 11-month one; '73 To '75, 16-month one, and then early '80s, you had a 16-month one.

Just to give you an idea of the pain out there, yes, it's there. But if you take a look at some of the signs, I don't think Lakshman is alone. A lot of economists agree that the recession has probably come to an end and we are moving out of that now.

VELSHI: As grumpy as you are about the economy, and you have very good reason to have been angry about this economy, don't forget to take advantage of the things that could work for you, in your investments, whether it's a home or your stocks, and in looking for new jobs in new industries.

It's always a pleasure to talk to both of you. Lakshman Achuthan is the managing director of the National Cycle Research Institute, by the way, virtually never been wrong on when receptions stop.

ACHUTHAN: It's a curse.

VELSHI: And Stephanie Elam on CNN. A pleasure to see you both.

ELAM: Thanks, Ali.

ACHUTHAN: Thank you.

VELSHI: When we come back, Ed Henry is joining us. I think he's in Prague. There it is. That's Prague in the background, beautiful place. We'll check in with Ed Henry to find out why he is in Prague, what he's got to tell us, on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: I like seeing Ed out on the road. He's in Prague, one of my favorite cities in the entire world. To me it was like walking into a childhood fairy tale, come to life. It's a beautiful, beautiful city.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It really is. You walk through the squares here, the public squares, people are really happy. And it's been 20 years since the Velvet Revolution, more than 20 years now. And so you can still see old signs of Soviet life, being a Soviet satellite, and then new signs of freedom. It's a really incredible city.

VELSHI: What are you doing there?

HENRY: Well, you know, the president -- it was one year ago this week that I was standing on this very rooftop in downtown Prague, because the president, you'll remember, gave a major speech here, where he was talking to tens of thousands in Prague about ridding the world of nuclear weapons. There were some people who maybe thought it was a little pie in the sky, but he sort of, as a book end, coming back this week now to Prague, sit down with the Russian president to sign a new Start Treaty, reduce arms, nuclear warheads, big reductions, from over 2,000 down to about 1,500 on each side. The launchers being reduced from about 1,600 down to 800 on each side. Both sides still have a lot of nuclear warheads.

VELSHI: Sure.

HENRY: But they're trying to take some important steps forward to show that there's a whole new day in U.S./Russian relations. But then you also have the president releasing this new document about the U.S. posture on nuclear weapons, and some big changes, a dramatic change, basically saying that if countries, other countries step up and sign the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the U.S. is going to promise we're not going to use nuclear weapons on them, if they're signatories.

And what he's trying to do there is isolate Iran, North Korea and others who won't step up and agree not to have nuclear programs. But, as you know, on the right, there's going to be conservatives saying, you know, is the president a little too soft here.

VELSHI: Yes.

HENRY: So this is going to be very interesting --

VELSHI: Yes.

HENRY: -- when he gets here on Thursday, how this all plays out.

VELSHI: We had a discussion just earlier on the show with some saying that this is going to make the world a safer place, and others saying it's going to make the U.S. more vulnerable. Hey, listen, there's some kind of Spring fling going on in Prague. I mean, it's beautiful weather out there. You're carrying -- what is that?

HENRY: I'm carrying a whip. I want to, you know, caution our viewers, this is just -- these are just branches. It's not, like, a real whip. But apparently Easter is a big holiday here, not just a religious one, but it's the opening of Spring in Prague. They have Easter Monday, Easter Tuesday. They celebrate most of the week.

Apparently -- I'm told on good authority here that on Easter Monday, men are allowed to use these whips here on women, and in exchange women then give the men these eggs. You can see these hand painted egg. You see a flower there on the other side, very intricate. They've got a church on the other side. It's supposed to signify fertility, good health, et cetera. I want to be clear, Ali, this is not like an RNC, Michael Steele kind of whip. This is on the up and up, at least I'm told.

VELSHI: I don't know if our bail program covers you going out and whipping someone. You did say this is just a branch, not a real whip. Do you know a lot about real whips, Ed?

HENRY: Well, no, I don't. Maybe I should be careful in how I phrase it. Like I say, it's not, you know, the kind of thing you heard about in the bondage club out there in West Hollywood. It appears to be very soft. You know, if I hit my hand here, it's very soft. I know one thing. I'm guaranteed now that my expense report is going to be watched very, very closely in Atlanta.

VELSHI: As a result of the "The Ed Henry Segment". Ed, it's a beautiful town. Have a great time there. Where are you going to be tomorrow? Are you back here? Or are you still there?

HENRY: No, we're going to be in Prague for the rest of the week. The president will arrive on Thursday. We got here a couple days in advance. We're going to work on some stories. We're going to bring you some good stories from people on the streets here in Prague, what they think about the president more than a year in.

I mentioned the speech last year. He had tens of thousands of people in the streets of Prague here, sort of cheering him on with that big speech. How do they feel a year later?

VELSHI: Very good. Ed Henry on "The Ed Henry Segment". You'll see him here in Prague. Don't go anywhere within sort of arm's length of him, given the whip he's got. Good to see you, Ed. We'll see you then. Turning back to our lead story; we'll have the latest on the West Virginia mine explosion on the other side of this break. Stay with us.

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VELSHI: State and federal officials are promising a thorough investigation of yesterday's mine disaster in West Virginia. An explosion at the Upper Big Branch South Mine killed at least 25 workers; four are unaccounted for. Rescue efforts have been suspended until holes can be drilled into the mine and air samples can be taken. It is the deadliest U.S. mining disaster in a quarter of a century.

In Britain, the date's been announced for national elections, May 6th. Prime Minister Gordon Brown is hoping to hang on to power, but national polls show his Labor Party trailing the conservatives by as much as ten points.

And in college basketball, Duke won the men's Division I championship last night, ending the Butler University Cinderella story. The small Indiana school attracted a national following, as it knocked off bigger rivals in the playoffs. But Duke managed to squeak by, 61-59, in last night's final, a thriller that went down to the final buzzer.

Earlier this hour we spoke with West Virginia resident Lerella Scarboro, an environmental activist that came out against Massey Energy and blamed them for yesterday's mining explosion. We want to be clear that no investigation has been completed. In fact, it's just beginning. We tried to reach out to Massey for comment numerous times to come on our air. In a statement last night, the company said "our top priority is the safety of our miners and the well-being of their families."

A post on Massey's website touts the company's 2009 safety record, saying it marked the sixth consecutive year, and the 17th year out of the past 20, in which Massey's safety performance was stronger than the industry average.

I'll have my "X-Y-Z" on the tragedy in West Virginia after the break.

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VELSHI: Time now for "The X-Y-Z of It."

While it's been pointed out several times today that coal mining is not the most dangerous industry, it is a dangerous job. We tend to forget that in between tragedies, because a lot of coal is mined without anyone getting hurt.

But a lot of coal is mined, and we're not going to slow down anytime soon. More than half the electricity generated in the United States come from plants powered by coal. We mine coal because we thirst for power, cheap power. In 20 states, when you switch on a light, there's a better-than-even chance that the power comes from coal. In four states, Indiana, Kentucky, Wyoming and West Virginia, 90 percent of the electricity comes from coal.

Meeting that demand is not only a dangerous job, it's unpleasant; it's dark; it's damp; it's claustrophobic; and it exposes workers to Black Lung and other sicknesses. That is without the threat of explosion, collapse and entrapment.

I'm telling you all of this because, as a society, our demand for coal always comes with a price. We rarely think about the conditions under which the power we use is created, or of the back-breaking labor under which it was created. Most coal miners don't want you to stop using coal. Their economies, their jobs, their towns depend on it. Many workers don't complain about the conditions because the job pays well, if you can survive the physical challenges. And, frankly, short of cutting your electricity usage, you can't do much about it.

Anyway, where your local utility buys its electricity, how it's generated, well, that's a decision that they tend to make without asking you. Tragedies like this may seem distant to many of us, something that happens out there, in coal mining country. But the fruits of their labors allow us a high standard of living.

So let's remember that when miners die in the course of generating electricity for our use, it's not somewhere out there. It's Pennsylvania. It's Kentucky. It's Tennessee and so many other states. And today, it's West Virginia, hard working men and women with names, neighbors, and families to go home to. When they don't make it home, we need to all remember that they are more than collateral damage in our never-ending quest for energy.

That's the "X-Y-Z" of it.

Time now for Rick's List.