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Mining Disaster Press Conference; Emergency in Kyrgyzstan; Los Angeles on Financial Cliff

Aired April 07, 2010 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

KEVIN STRICKLIN, ADMINISTRATOR, MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION: What's been a big problem for us, that's one of the reasons that we have to put this fan online because the stopping line is not in to actually force the air to make its way up to the face where the people where working and back out. So the debris from that has been blow out, but basically it won't hinder our traveling by foot get to the end (ph) by air.

We were almost close to this area here, so we made it that far. It's just a question of the gas concentrations that backed us out rather than the debris.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

How many, what type, when?

STRICKLIN: There have been no signals that have been sent down that borehole. Basically, the only signal is if you were a miner underground, and you heard the drill drilling, you knew that people would be coming after you, and that's the intent of the drill hole. There are no signals that have been sent through the drill hole.

The signal was when we were talking -- and we're going to address that -- Joe has set up a meeting at 11:30 with the state and the company to talk about the seismic test and when would be the best time to do that test. And that would be the information that we talked about as far as a sounding.

QUESTION: And that hasn't been done?

STRICKLIN: That has not been done.

QUESTION: So the only sound the miners could have heard so far is the activity of the drilling?

STRICKLIN: That is correct.

QUESTION: They would have no way to signal back to the surface to you because you were continuing to drill. Is that correct?

STRICKLIN: Well, we have the seismic equipment set up in case we were to hear anything, but we have not put off the shots on the surface to indicate to them that we're intently listening on the surface.

QUESTION: But you are intently listening on the surface with that seismic equipment, correct?

STRICKLIN: We have been, but you wouldn't expect to hear it because there is so much noise and vibration given off by the drills that are actually drilling into the earth, that if we were looking at our equipment, it would show that it was a very active sound that we heard when we know that it's the drill that we're hearing on that seismic recording.

QUESTION: This morning you said that the window for (INAUDIBLE).

GOV. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: No. We were hoping that between the 10:00 and the 2:00, we would have more information that would allow them make something decisions.

So, once they get the readings, and if the readings look like they could be good enough for about what time period, then they'll be able to plan around that. And that was the time we're still hoping, between now and 2:00, if the fan gets up and we start getting some readings, they can start telling what type of air they're dealing with, methane, CO. And then you can start doing the math about how long it will take that out to where they can get back in.

QUESTION: But do you still hope (OFF-MIKE)?

STRICKLIN: We're always hopeful, but we're going to reserve judgment. We're going to have a meeting at 11:30 this morning. We're going to try to calculate the amount of area that we have to ventilate. We're going to see where we're at with the boreholes going in, and probably the next news conference that is held we'll have a better idea, in my opinion, of being able to forecast when this may occur.

QUESTION: Are the rescue teams prepared to go in at any hour? Will it be pushed back (OFF-MIKE)?

STRICKLIN: We have rescue teams on site right now, and they could go in immediately if we needed them to do so.

QUESTION: Kevin, you were saying that they got to the point where they were able to ascertain there were six of the nine that were dead at the scene. Does that mean that the rescue team was that close to the refuge place (ph) before they had to come back? I mean, were they very, very close before they were turned back?

STRICKLIN: They were within, I think, approximately 500 to 600 feet. Now, the rescue team works in a finite distance. I mean, they're tied in with a lifeline, and they can only go at 1,000-foot increments.

We would not ask a rescue team to go off of a lifeline. They were in dense smoke. They could have got turned around. So it's basically just mine rescue procedure and common sense that we would not let anybody advance beyond holding that lifeline and that much dense smoke.

QUESTION: How were they able to identify the bodies to figure out --

STRICKLIN: Well, as we talked about earlier, we did not identify who any of the individuals were. We just know that there were six persons on that manned trip, and they confirmed that when they came out with all of us.

QUESTION: Can you describe what the interior looks like? Are there big rocks falling on the ceiling? Can you give us a picture of what these guys will have to walk through to get up there?

STRICKLIN: Well, I mean, it's a lot of darkness. I mean, there's a lot of coal dust that has turned the surfaces black. And if you shined your light, it's very difficult seeing.

In addition, there's a dust covering over just about anything that you would come across in the coal mine. In addition, we've also talked about the damage from the stoppings.

The stoppings have concrete blocks or material in them. And when an explosion occurs, it has the ability and force to lift that material up and move it to an area and cause a lot of destruction, and it doesn't matter where.

I mean, it doesn't deposit itself in one certain area. It's displaced throughout the entire area. So, basically, where people would normally be walking and traveling, there may be material debris, concrete block, rails that have come off the ground that makes people have to be very careful when they cross over. And it's not a clear walkway like you and I have in this room here.

QUESTION: So from the time the rescue crews get the all clear, how long do you estimate for them to get back into the rescue chamber area?

STRICKLIN: Our hope -- and again, this is a caveat -- that they find no problems on the way in and no additional gas. I would expect somewhere less than two hours from when they start in the mine to actually be able to get in there, under oxygen, and start advancing in front of them.

QUESTION: Is there guidance given to the miners, assuming that they're in one of these chambers? They've got enough stuff to keep them going for several days, or even longer. Since there are so few, where they might decide to put on their self-rescues and try to walk out themselves?

MANCHIN: Let me just say that that's the only chamber that has not been checked. Everything else has been. And when they return back from that chamber -- so, as a family member, you can imagine the sliver of hope that we have is that the four would be there -- three, two, one. That's the sliver of hope that we have. And they know the odds are not in our favor because of the horrific and the horrendous blast that we had, but with that, that's what we're still holding on to.

And again, we know we have 18 miners in there. We know that 14 have perished. And we don't know the conditions of the other four or the status of the other four. And everyone is holding on to the hope that that's their dad or that's their brother or that's their son, that it's one of those, and that we might find them right there, and that's the sliver of hope that we have.

So, as Kevin said, these chambers -- and Joe, you can talk about a chamber, if you will, what's in the chamber. And this is something that because of the laws we had passed in 2006 and 2007. State and federal, that made all these changes happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I'll do two things.

One is explain a little bit more about what's going to happen to the drill holes first, because the process is going to be -- when the drill hole is committed -- is to draw the air back through the mine and clear the contaminated air. At the same time, there is going to be sampling tubes tied to those to give us the ability to draw samples.

It's going to give us the indicators of when the next decision should be made on mine rescue. And that will let us know as it progresses when that air gets to the point.

As far as rescue chambers, I think that's been discussed here at different times. I think each rescue chamber -- we're looking at designed to hold 15 miners, 96 hours worth of air, oxygen, water, enough to sustain life during that period of time. And if miners could reach that, that's what they're designed to do, to be able to sustain life over that period of time until rescue teams, rescue efforts can reach them.

QUESTION: Are they given any guidance like saying they're getting close to the 96 hours, that they should try to strike out on their own?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To answer the first question, the 96 hours is sort of a standard design to, in this case, accommodate this particular chamber for 15 people. So if you're looking at a small number, yes, the food and water --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walter might want to just comment on --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me. Just one brief, very brief comment.

Miners in West Virginia and I think throughout the country are taught to escape first. They're taught to try get out of the mine the way they came in first.

They retreat to a chamber or rescue shelter as a last resort. When they have made the determination, if their training has taken, if they have made the determination that they need to go to a shelter, that that's the last place that they would go. A shelter is a sophisticated barricade, in my opinion.

QUESTION: Is there any evidence at this point that leads you believe that anyone is alive down there? Is there any evidence of that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't have any at this point. We just have hope.

QUESTION: How far is that refuge chamber from the entrance to the hole?

(CROSSTALK)

STRICKLIN: It's -- one inch equals a 500-foot map. I just guesstimated a few days ago about 8,000 feet.

QUESTION: So rescuers would have to go in about two miles to get to that refuge chamber?

STRICKLIN: They'll ride in a certain distance. They won't walk in from the outside. We'll get them in there as quickly as possible, access for them to get in as far as we can.

QUESTION: You said that there is not really significant debris (OFF-MIKE)?

STRICKLIN: Well, the debris starts around where the manned trip was at where the nine miners were on their way out. Up to that point, we can have access up to there pretty quickly.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

STRICKLIN: Naturally, your debris is going to be in your explosion field. And in areas, that area would be clear for travel up to that point.

QUESTION: If they were alive and they were equal (ph), is it possible that they could have gotten out?

STRICKLIN: As Ron (ph) mentioned, I mean, everybody's trained. The first thing you want to do is to try to get out of the coal mine. As a last resort, you go into a chamber.

I don't know what would go through my mind it I was trapped in a situation like that. If I started out and I saw that there had been an explosion, and I was crossing over debris, we have got to give these miners, I guess, the opportunity to go somewhere else if they did not feel they could make it out of the mine, and they could have made it to the refuge chamber. As Ron (ph) mentioned, that's our hope, and that's what we have left to go after right now.

We know they didn't come out, so the next option would be for them on go to that refuge chamber.

QUESTION: Just to be clear, you're talking about six out of nine. So we're talking about maybe three unaccounted for, miners right now.

What about the fourth, which I know (OFF-MIKE)? Is there debris in front of where you expect that miner to be? Can you characterize the obstacles (OFF-MIKE)?

STRICKLIN: Well, we have investigated that area one time previously. That would be considered the long wall face (ph). And we found what we consider to be eight of the nine crew members that would be working in that area.

And I mentioned that the conditions that the rescue teams are in when they're under there is very quick. They're moving very quickly.

They may have passed over someone who was there, or that individual, for whatever reason, may have left that area and went somewhere else. We don't know, and that's up to us now when the rescue team goes back in to find that individual.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

STRICKLIN: All the answers to your questions is yes. There is debris in the area, but it is accessible. And we don't know that we can find them naturally until we go underground and look for him.

QUESTION: Governor, (OFF-MIKE) to where they would give adequate air to the miners under duress (OFF-MIKE) walk out of that mine?

MANCHIN: Yes, SCSRs are to make its own oxygen in a situation where you may be in high concentrations of CO that would normally kill. And it gives the ability to walk at a less than normal pace. You have to slow down a little bit, because there is some resistance to the breathing, and they would be able to make it out to another area where another cash of SCSRs would be, and replace that one and continue coming out if that were the case.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

If that's the case -- and I've been told that's unusual -- could that have been a red flag?

MANCHIN: There's -- we've said this before. Something went horribly wrong and something caused this tremendous buildup.

Now, I haven't seen those reports. If there's a report that they were getting high readings and they stopped production because of high readings, you would have thought that would have happened again here.

That high reading -- for something to spike as high as this spike can cause this problem, how did that happen? Was it -- you know, what caused it?

If they stopped three other times because they were getting unusually high readings, that would have been the safety valve, and a way that I'm sure that MSHA and the state intended that to happen to protect the men. Those are things we don't know, but I can assure you -- and I know you have heard Congressman Rahall -- both the state and federal will move quickly.

We're in full rescue operation right now. Then we will go into recovery. We know that we have 14 of our miners to recover. And we're hoping that we have four to rescue.

Whatever the outcome is, that's what we'll do first. They will move immediately then, I can tell you, both sides, and we will move from there to determine how we can prevent this, or if there were telltale signs that something should have been done differently.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Boy, can you imagine this entire community in West Virginia hanging on every word in this news conference right now, clinging to the hope that the four missing miners will be found alive?

We've been listening to the latest update from West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin, and Kevin Stricklin and others from the Mine, Safety and Health Administration.

Look, the bottom line on this is this -- there is still a lot of assessing of the situation going on. The stability of the mine, the air quality, as you know, is horrible.

One borehole is complete, work continues on a second. You've got to get that toxic mix of methane and carbon monoxide out of there as best you can before you can send rescue teams underground with oxygen.

CNN's John Roberts has been on the scene since shortly after the explosion in the mine. He is joining us live now from Raleigh County, West Virginia.

And John, we heard in the news conference it will be probably later today at the earliest before officials have a better idea of when the rescue efforts can begin.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Tony. And oddly, there seems to be very little progress since about 4:00 this morning.

We had a briefing from the same individuals just after 6:00 this morning, and they said that they had the one borehole completed. They were 500 feet down with the second, a hundred feet down with the third, and there doesn't seem to be much progress since then on the second and the third boreholes. And they still don't have that high- pressure ventilation fan up there in position yet. So it looks like things are a little bit delayed.

They were hoping sometime between 10:00 and 2:00 to start getting those -- 2:00 Eastern Time -- to start getting readings on the air quality there, to start pumping it out and measuring it. And they haven't begun that process yet either.

So perhaps the governor's optimistic prediction that they may be able to get rescue crews back down there sometime this afternoon may be pushed back a little bit. I guess it all depends on how quickly they can ventilate that area of the mine that's got that toxic buildup of gas and get those levels down reasonable enough that they can send rescue crews back in.

HARRIS: Yes. And John, boy, what's this next day, the second day, been like for the people you've had an opportunity to speak with on the ground in that community? What's it been like for them? I know it's been agonizing.

ROBERTS: Well, a situation like this, Tony, a minute is forever and an hour is eternity. And you can't even begin to comprehend how long a day is. When you have a loved one deep underground and you have no idea as to their fate, you can only imagine what these families are going through.

As the officials were saying, they have 14 known bodies down in the mine, many of whom have not yet been identified. There are another four people.

And if you're the husband -- I'm sorry, if you're the wife, the father, the brother, the sister or the child of one of these miners, you're saying, is my loved one of the four, or are they one of the 14? And if they are one of the four, what's the situation?

There just seems to be a sense, though, Tony, that as much as they are trying to cling to hope, the power of that explosion was such that it would have been very difficult for anyone to have survived. The seven people who were killed aboard that manned trip were 1,000 feet away from where some of the other dead were found, and they themselves may have been hundreds of feet away from where the ignition source of the explosion was.

And from accounts that we've had talking with family members of people who escaped through the mine, it was like a fire tornado coming through there. They said they felt a little bit of a wind, like a breeze, as you would if a thunderstorm was coming in. And then it whipped up to almost hurricane force as the hot air blasted out through the mouth of that mine.

So you can only imagine what it would have been like inside.

HARRIS: John, are you learning anything about -- you know, we've been talking about the human tragedy. That's certainly a huge side of this, an aspect of this story. What are you hearing about the investigation, that side of the story, and all the violations, the citations to this company, and a recent citation for buildup in methane gas?

ROBERTS: Yes. A lot of theories and a lot of speculation at this point, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes.

ROBERTS: But, you know, until they get down there and actually see where this buildup of methane gas came from, they won't have any hard and fast answers. I've heard from some people who believe that maybe there was a buildup of methane gas in an area of the mine that had been mined out and had been sealed up. Perhaps the seal was leaked, causing a rush of methane gas. There was a citation, seven of them, during the month of March, problems with the ventilation plan. There are reports out there that the mine has been shut down a couple or three times earlier this year because of high methane levels. That came from miners whom we haven't had a chance to speak with ourselves.

But there's no question there are a lot of dots out there at this point. It's whether or not all those dots ultimately connect to say, ah-ha, here was the source of the problem, we can trace back the history of this explosion. And maybe it's something that people should have known was a distinct possibility. But as many mine officials and health and safety officials have told us, explosions like this ultimately are preventable.

HARRIS: Right. Right.

I'm a bit haunted by the words from Kevin Stricklin yesterday, and they were echoed by Governor Manchin today, that something went really wrong down there. And that's stating the obvious, to be sure.

All right, John. Appreciate it. Thanks.

ROBERTS: Yes, there's no question about that.

HARRIS: All right.

John Roberts for us on the scene.

Obviously much more on the West Virginia mine disaster. Later this hour, we will talk with the owner of Mine Safety and Health News, Ellen Smith, about recent and repeated violations at the mine. That's ahead at 11:40 Eastern Time.

(NEWSBREAK)

HARRIS: The independent Russian news agency Interfax reports at least 21 people killed, 180 injured in clashes with police. There is also word that protesters have taken over part of the parliament building.

Our Matthew Chance is tracking developments from Moscow.

Matthew, good to see you.

How serious is this? The pictures are pretty stark. And what's at the heart of the dispute here?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's an issue, a local issue, about living standards, about concerns about corruption, and about how democratic freedoms in this quite remote central Asian republic have been stifled by the government, by the president in power in that country. Thousands of people, you can see in those pictures, coming out into the streets of the country's capital -- it's called Bishkek -- and they've been met with some opposition by the local police forces.

They tried to disperse them with tear gas and water cannon and baton charges. That didn't work.

They opened fire after that. And as you just mentioned, 21 people, according to the reports that we're getting, were killed in that clash between the security forces and the protesters. Another 180 injured.

And it looks like the situation is going from bad to worse, because we are having these reports as well that various official buildings in the center of the city have been stormed by these protesters, not least the security headquarters. We're hearing that a number of prisoners who are being held pre-trial have been released by the protesters.

Also the parliament, you just mentioned. But the office of the prosecutor general has also been taken over. And according to these reports, burned to the ground.

Now, you might not think that matters, but it is, as you mentioned, very important, indeed, because Kyrgyzstan is of immense strategic importance to the U.S., because that's where Manas Air Base is located. It's an important air base because it's the main base which is used by U.S. forces to resupply the troops in Afghanistan. And so, obviously, the White House, the State Department looking at this very closely -- Tony.

HARRIS: No indication now that the air base is being threatened in any way?

CHANCE: No, there's not. And the air base existed during the previous government that was overthrown in this way. There's no reason to expect that if this government is overthrown, there won't still be a U.S. air base there.

HARRIS: OK.

Matthew Chance for us.

Matthew, appreciate it. Thank you.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Got to tell you, the city of Los Angeles is racing toward a financial cliff. The city projecting a $1 billion shortfall by 2013. Already, there have been layoffs, pay cuts and furloughs. Now the mayor is talking about a three-day workweek.

Are you kidding me?

CNN's Casey Wian, live for us now from Los Angeles.

And Casey, what's going on here? Talk us through this story.

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, perhaps only in Los Angeles. The mayor, Antonio Villaraigosa, is threatening to shut down some city services two days a week starting next week because of a budget dispute involving the City Council and the city's Department of Water and Power. Now, that agency is withholding more than $70 million that it owes to the city unless city leaders approve an electricity rate increase to cover its growing cost.

So, to deal with that shortfall from the DWP, the mayor wants to shut down non-essential city services. He's exempting public safety and those city operations that generate revenue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA (D), LOS ANGELES: I am asking the CAO to develop a plan to shut down all general-funded city services with the exception of public safety and revenue-generating positions for two days per week beginning the week of April 12th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Wow!

All right, Casey. So what specific agencies or services are we talking about here?

WIAN: Well, the list hasn't been completely detailed, but what he's talking about are services like parks and libraries and courthouses. He's not talking about services like the police force or business licenses, things that generate revenue for the city.

But as you can imagine, the unions representing city workers are absolutely outraged by this proposal because thousand-s of those city workers could see their paychecks cut by 40 percent starting next week. And some on the City Council say even non-essential public services actually help public safety because they keep people occupied productively.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNARD PARKS, LOS ANGELES CITY COUNCIL: Fire and police currently are over 70 percent of the city's budget. You cannot cut $600 million over the next 15 months out of the remaining 30 percent and have any semblance of city government and services to the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIAN: Now, Tony, I just had a follow-up conversation with Councilman Parks just a few minutes ago, and I mentioned that all of this sounds to an outsider like me like a lot of political posturing. He responded that as an insider, that's exactly what it sounds like as well. Some other city council members have described this as a battle of manhood between these city leaders -- Tony.

HARRIS: This is insane.

All right. Casey Wian for us.

Casey, appreciate it. Thank you.

Los Angeles Mayor Villaraigosa discusses the budget brinksmanship in the CNN NEWSROOM. Join Ali Velshi at 1:00 Eastern. That is 10:00 Pacific.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: All right. One week from tomorrow, tax returns are due. It is also the deadline to contribute to an IRA. Our Stephanie Elam is in New York. Stephanie, we're also talking some extra savings down the road here, correct?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. We're just basically reminding, Tony, that there's some options out there for people if they want to think about long-term investment. And one of the best financial moves a young person can make is opening up a Roth IRA. The money you put into this type of retirement savings plan grows completely tax-free, completely.

HARRIS: Nice.

ELAM: And it is more flexible than a 401(k) because you can invest your IRA on pretty much anything, from stocks and bonds to mutual funds, CDs and even real estate. So if you don't have a Roth IRA just yet, consider setting up one now. You have until April 15th to make contributions for 2009, and you'll still be able to make another contribution later for 2010.

The government sets limits on how much you can contribute to a Roth IRA. You've got to know that. The limit for last year and this year is $5,000. And you don't have to contribute the maximum. Put in whatever you can afford right now, just get it started and start taking advantage of it, Tony.

HARRIS: I'm looking at these figures here and the limit. There have to be some strings attached to this, right, Stephanie?

ELAM: Yes. You're right. I wish I could say that's not the case, but it's true. First, you can only contribute to a Roth IRA if you've earned income from a job. So, you can't just be out there pulling in money through your trust funds and want to contribute. That's not going to work.

HARRIS: So, rolling in money from my unemployment check, can't do that?

ELAM: Right. No. You can't do that, either.

HARRIS: OK!

ELAM: There's a flip side to this, too. If you make too much money at that job, you're out of luck, as well. So, you can only contribute the full $5,000 to your IRA if your income falls below $105,000 for a single filer and $166,000 if you're married and filing jointly. So, if you expect to make more than the income limit at some point in your career, you should open a Roth while you're still young and eligible.

And opening up a Roth IRA is very easy. If you want to be very conservative, invest in money market accounts and CDs through an account at your bank. And for mutual funds, use a brokerage firm or a fund company. And if you prefer to invest in individual stocks, then you want to use a discount broker. And some fund companies will let you open an account and make contributions online.

But if you're opening an account now, be sure to designate which year your contribution is for. You want to get the most for your money. Most financial advisors recommend young people be a bit more aggressive with their retirement accounts because you have longer to invest.

HARRIS: I want to understand that there are real savings here. The market can be a tricky place here. How much can you really save if you open one of these Roth IRAs and the tax benefits of it?

ELAM: This type of tax advantage saving can really pay off big in the long run.

Let's give you an example here. If you started to save when you're 25 and you contribute the max every year until you retire, you're likely to save upwards of $1 million by the time you withdraw the money.

HARRIS: Wow.

ELAM: The best part is -- keep in mind about this, Tony -- you don't have to pay back Uncle Sam, not one dime of it. Just so long as you follow the rules along the way and you don't cash out until after you're 59-and-a-half.

And Roth IRAs aren't just for spring chickens starting their savings. If you're over 50, you are eligible to make these catch-up contributions of $1,000 a year over the normal limit, so that's something to consider taking advantage of as well. If you didn't do enough savings before for retirement, you could start doing it now through this vehicle.

HARRIS: But the income limits still apply, right?

ELAM: Yes. Well, there are different rules if you're above that age bracket -

HARRIS: Oh, really?

ELAM: -- because you're making up. So you don't have to worry about the 5,000 as much, but if you do have a lot of money, it's probably not going to be the investment vehicle for you.

HARRIS: Yes, exactly. All right, Stephanie. See you next hour. Thank you, lady. The West Virginia mine scene of that deadly explosion. Should it have been operating after repeated safety violations? The CEO says yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We continue to monitor developments out of West Virginia where a mine explosion has a community just hoping and praying. The mine operator, Massey Energy, has shelled out record fines for safety and environmental violations. Despite the questions about the company's records, CEO Don Blankenship says the mine where the explosion occurred was safe.

The story now from CNN's John Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To hear the CEO of Massey Energy tell it, the hundreds of safety violations filed against the Upper Big Branch Mine were neither excessive in number nor particularly significant.

(on camera): People may be wondering why this mine was even operating?

DON BLANKENSHIP, CEO, MASSEY ENERGY: Well, I think the reason it was operating is that all the people who are very knowledgeable of mining, whether that be with the federal government, the state government or Massey had completed that the mine was safe to operate and these violations and the efforts on the ventilation are efforts to improve it.

ROBERTS (voice-over): But the man in charge of keeping America's coal mines and coal miners safe, Kevin Stricklin, doesn't see much room for argument.

(on camera): Is it your stance, Kevin, that this is a mine that really needed to clean up its act?

KEVIN STRICKLIN, MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION: Well, we think all mines need to clean up their act. The number of violations that were issued here and some of the significance of them, it gave the indication that the mine operator would have been better suited to just comply with the regulations rather than us fining them.

ROBERTS (voice-over): It's an emotional issue in this one industry land. Safety is a huge concern. But Massey mines provide thousands of jobs and pour money into the local community. Ron Wooten is the West Virginia state mining director.

(on camera): Are they a good operator or a bad operator in your estimation?

RON WOOTEN, STATE MINING DIRECTOR: I don't have an opinion on that particular question. I've seen them do good things. I've seen them do things not so good. ROBERTS: One person told me, a source who chose to remain anonymous told me that you were one of the worst operators in terms of the number of violations and the severity of those violations?

BLANKENSHIP: We would disagree in terms of the condition of our mines. The number of violations that can depend on what area you're operating in, what district, and who the inspectors are and a whole host of issues.

ROBERTS (voice-over): Mine safety sources say they grow frustrated with the deep pockets industry and big money lawyers who challenge violations.

(on camera): Isn't it true that they can take you to court and they could spend a lot of money and they can drag this out and they can get the violation reduced, and they can keep operating tying you up in knots?

WOOTEN: They may be able to do that, but the real cost is when you shut them down. When you shut that mining machine down and they can't run coal. That's the real cost.

ROBERTS (voice-over): But shutting down a mine isn't easy. The feds find it hard to touch even repeat offenders if they correct the violation. It's like an endless series of strikes with few ever called out.

STRICKLIN: The law gives them the opportunity to correct their violations and go back to work. There's nothing in the law that tells me that I can keep them from mining.

ROBERTS: Until there's a big accident. Then everyone pays.

WOOTEN: I get concerned and upset any time we have a violation. And when something like this happens, this devastates our state.

ROBERTS (on camera): I sense a certain frustration.

WOOTEN: Perhaps. I'm frustrated any time these kinds of things happen. And I'm frustrated when I know that we're trying and it still happened. That's annoying, most annoying, that this really tears at you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: So, what does it take to shut down a mine because of safety concerns? Ellen Smith, owner of Mine, Safety and Health News joins us next to talk about just that. We're back in a moment. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: So, rescue teams are clinging to hope as they try to reach four missing coal miners in West Virginia. At least 25 workers were killed in the explosion at the mine. And the tragedy has put the focus safety. Federal inspectors cited the mine more than 100 times this year for safety violations. The mine was cited 458 times for violations last year.

Let's get some perspective from an expert. Ellen Smith is owner and managing editor of Mine, Safety and Health News. She joins us from Rochester, New York. Ellen, are all violations created equally?

ELLEN SMITH, OWNER AND MANAGING EDITOR, MINE, SAFETY AND HEALTH NEWS: Absolutely not. I mean, that's the whole problem. It's not a problem with the Mine Act, but it's the way the Mine Act was written. You could get a violation for having a lid off of a garbage can or for a maintenance worker leaving rags around after working on a piece of equipment, and you can get a citation of violation for not adhering to your ventilation plan. That all goes into a big pot, so you really need to sort out the individual violations --

HARRIS: Why is it done that way? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Why is it done that way?

SMITH: Sure, it does. You get a ticket for speeding, you get a ticket for parking. They're still tickets. In this case, what we want to look at though --

HARRIS: Yes, but there are offenses and serious offenses.

SMITH: Well, exactly. Exactly.

HARRIS: You can be speeding at 30 miles an hour and just get a ticket. You can be speeding at 50 over the limit and end up in jail.

SMITH: And you can't end up in jail, but when you have a serious offense, when the ventilation is not working, MSHA can issue a withdrawal order. In fact, we saw that. They've issued four withdrawal orders for ventilation plan violations at this mine since January. MSHA has been using enforcement tools.

As far as shutting the mine down, though, on a permanent or long- term basis, under the Mine Act, which was written in 1977, MSHA does not have that power. What they've done is tried to shut down two mines recently because the mine operators haven't paid civil penalties at all, but if -- but the mine operator has to have a chance to correct the violation and, yes, they can keep working. That is the way the Mine Act is written.

HARRIS: OK. So we won't know for a while exactly what caused this explosion, but we need to note that this mine has had, and we've been talking about it, several citations recently for ventilation problems.

SMITH: Correct.

HARRIS: Problems that could lead to the kind of buildup of methane gas, correct?

SMITH: Correct. HARRIS: So, talk us to about those violations, which are very serious violations, and then the way a company can sort of kick the can through the appeals process.

SMITH: Well, the company can appeal MSHA's citation, but the bottom line is they still have to correct the condition for which they were cited, and they have to correct it in the amount of time that MSHA gives them to correct it. So, when I was looking through the ventilation violations, most of them were corrected the same day where the citation was issued.

So, they were issued a citation. They had to withdraw miners -- it was a withdrawal order. They had to withdraw the miners, correct the problem, and then they could go back to work. So, there were financial consequences for the company in addition to the amount of money that MSHA issued.

In one case, it was $70,000. In another case it was over $60,000 for two ventilation violations recently in January. So, there's the financial consequence of the penalty, and then there's the consequence of not producing coal. So, that -- there is that stick there, but as far as just shutting down a mine, say, for a month saying that's the penalty for all these violations, MSHA can't do that.

HARRIS: OK. Ellen, let's leave it there. Maybe that's something that needs to be revisited -- I don't know. I'm just asking.

All right. Ellen Smith with us. Ellen, thank you. We'll take a break --

SMITH: Thank you.

HARRIS: -- and we're back in a moment. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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HARRIS: And the next hour of CNN NEWROOM, an in-depth look at the Roman Catholic Church in crisis right now. Explosive allegations have erupted in recent months of children sexually abused by priests. Reports denied at the Vatican suggests the Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, tried to contain the scandal within church walls.

The church is already having a difficult time recruiting new priests, and the scandal isn't helping. CNN's Diana Magnay in Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These men are the Catholic Church's future, young seminarians in Rome, studying for a lifetime, devoted to God.

JUNHEE LEE, SEMINARIAN: I love my friends. I love their life. I respect their decision in life, but I want to introduce my life to their life. The relationship -- the pure relationship that I have with God is far more greater than any relationship that you will ever find with another being.

MAGNAY: Celibacy doesn't bother them, and they certainly don't think it's to blame for pedophile priests.

JOSEPH LARACY, SEMINARIAN: The people that have committed these crimes, these sins. I mean, they would have this inclination whether or not they were married.

MAGNAY: Gianni Gennari started training for the priesthood when he was 16 years old, more than 50 years ago.

GIANNI GENNARI, THEOLOGIAN (through translator): We weren't allowed to touch each other or call each other by our first names. Our spiritual director would say us to be careful of special friendships, but when I asked him what he meant, he said it's probably best you don't know.

MAGNAY: At 44, Gennari fell in love and left the priesthood to get married. He thinks there is a macho culture within the church which damages young, impressionable minds.

GENNARI (through translator): Within the church for centuries there was a negative vision of women and of sexuality, which leads to a very disturbed preacher of sexuality in general.

MAGNAY: The Pope on Monday urged young people not to be afraid of following god's call to the priesthood as the scandal of pedophile priests in his church gathers pace.

(on camera): What are you taught in your seminaries about what to do if you notice in the future that someone is abusing children. What do they teach you to do in that circumstance?

SEBASTIAN BUENING, SEMINARIAN: React to my provincial - said to us there are rules for this.

MAGNAY (voice-over): Rules which despite the teachings of the Catholic Church, some priests appear to have failed to follow.

Diana Magnay, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: OK, we continue our look inside the scandal plaguing the Catholic church. Next hour in CNN NEWSROOM, I'll talk with a former priest who now investigates sex abuse cases.

We will also have you weigh in. What questions do you have? What would you ask a former priest? Go to our blog at CNN.com/tony. Send us your questions, and we will get our guest to weigh in with their answers, next hour right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Welcome back. I'm Rob Marciano once again in the CNN Weather Center.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: Oh, yes. Hope to get out there before the weekend ends.

Rob, appreciate it. You have a good day, sir.

MARCIANO: You, too.

HARRIS: All right. Let's take a quick break. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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