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West Virginia Mining Disaster; Turmoil in Kyrgyzstan; Catholic Church in Crisis

Aired April 07, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: OK. Time for your top-of-the-hour reset. I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM.

It is 12:00 in West Virginia where rescuers are looking for a hopeful goal of finding four missing miners alive.

In Miami, Haitian parents reunite with their baby. A newborn lost in the earthquake rubble for five days.

And it is 6:00 p.m. at the Vatican where scandal threatens the papacy of Benedict XVI. Children sexually abused by priests. In- depth and in focus this hour.

Let's do this. Let's get started. Rescue teams are racing to drill a third hole at a West Virginia coal mine, even as they finish work on a second hole to search for four missing miners. Twenty-five people were killed in the explosion at the mine. Governor Joe Manchin says crews have to remove toxic methane and carbon monoxide before rescue teams can go back in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: They're trying to get those readings. Until we start getting those readings and knowing where we are and what type of air we have down there, we'll determine how quick and what timetable we're on. Once we do that, then you'll have a better idea of when they believe that the air will be safe enough to send the rescue teams in.

The rescue teams are prepared. They've been -- charged up, ready to go.

And they go in a moment's notice. So, we're very thankful for all them.

The question was asked before, when this commences, how many people might be involved in this first rescue operation? And I've been told maybe up to 30? It could be 30 rescuers going in. But it's going to be safety that will be the order of the day, if you will, and nothing will happen until then.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: OK. CNN's Brooke Baldwin joins us live now from Naoma, West Virginia, with more on the rescue effort. And Brooke, first of all, good to see you. You've been talking to miners in that community. What are they saying to you?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, it's so interesting, because, really, there are two sides to this story when it comes to this mining community. One side is the side you've really heard from.

You've heard from the family members who have loved ones in this mine here, this Upper Big Branch mine. And they're holed up in a mining office building about three miles away from where we are.

They're furious, they're frustrated, they're fuming. And I talked to someone who was in a meeting with the family members the night before last saying chairs were absolutely thrown. CEO Don Blankenship of Massey Energy was there, and they say the only word they haven't heard is "sorry." That's one side of the story.

The other side is from many, many other miners here in Raleigh County and elsewhere in West Virginia who basically see Massey Energy as a way they can feed their families. I met up with -- just so happened, actually, to catch a 19-year-old coal miner fresh out of his overnight shift at a mine not a mile from where this explosion happened.

He's a contracted miner. He told me basically, in his own words, he's hoping, he's praying that Massey will hire him so he can make a big $26 an hour. He said, "Absolutely, I recognize the fact that I'm risking my own life every single time I go into the ground." He's been on the job for 18 weeks. He's hoping for 40 years. He loves his job.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSHUA MITCHELL, COAL MINER: They are your family. You spend more time with them than you do with your real family. So you just grow into a big unity of family.

BALDWIN: Does your own family work in coal?

MITCHELL: Yes. My uncle Pete, my uncle Pope (ph), my uncle Scott (ph) and my pop-pop did, and my dad did. My pop-pop Rudy did. Yes, my whole family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, in short, Tony, you know, he and so many others -- we've knocked on doors -- they see their livelihood, coal mining, as supporting the community, providing the country with electricity. And really, they see themselves as quite patriotic, Tony, despite the dangers, obviously, that we've seen involved in this line of work.

HARRIS: Boy, it makes it a really compelling story, both sides that you have laid out there.

Brooke, appreciate it. Thank you.

You know, the tragedy at the West Virginia mine has focussed a harsh spotlight on the safety record of the company that owns it. Massey Energy has shelled out record fines for safety and environmental violations.

CNN's Lisa Sylvester takes a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Upper Big Branch mine was cited 458 times for safety violations last year, according to records from the Mine Safety and Health Administration. The federal agency says 48 of those violations pose significant safety or health hazards.

ELLEN SMITH, MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH NEWS: This mine troubles me. It's very, very serious. And, quite honestly, I've not seen one single mine with so many unwarrantable failure violations in one year.

SYLVESTER: Ten percent of the mine's violations were classified as "unwarrantable failures," the most serious citation investigators can issue. Smith and other sources say the national average is two percent.

According to the Mine Safety and Health Administration, within the last 15 months two types of violations came up again and again -- coal dust accumulation and inadequate ventilation, conditions that could lead to a massive explosion. The Massey company declined to respond to CNN's questions about its safety violations. Instead, directing us to a statement it issued after the explosion. "Our top priority is the safety of our miners and the well-being of their families."

Within its questionable safety record, you may wonder why this mine was still in operation. Federal authorities say it's not that simple.

KEVIN STRICKLIN, MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION; You're asking if I had the ability to shut a mine down based on what I find, and the answer to that is no. Once a mine operator corrects the condition and makes it safe again, I can't allow -- or I can't allow my inspector to say, you keep that mine shut down. When the condition is corrected, they're allowed to go back to mining.

SYLVESTER: The focus now is on what went horribly wrong, a look back that could take weeks to answer.

(on camera): The Mine Safety and Health Administration has proposed penalties of hundreds of thousands of dollars for violations at the Upper Big Branch mine. Last year alone, the company was fined nearly $900,000, much higher than in any other year. But so far, it's paid less than $200,000 in fines from that year and is challenging some of the penalties.

Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: I have to tell you that since that report was filed, our John Roberts spoke with the CEO of Massey Energy. Don Blankenship defended the company's safety efforts and said the number of violations can be misleading.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON BLANKENSHIP, CEO, MASSEY ENERGY: We would disagree in terms of the condition of our mines. A number of violations can depend on what area you're operating in, what district of MSHA, who the inspectors are, and a whole host of issues. And we're a big producer, but the truth is that we are doing a better job in our mines typically than what we observe otherwise.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Are you suggesting that you've been unfairly singled out?

BLANKENSHIP: I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just saying that we know, because we hire the top people from engineering graduate schools, we do a good job of keeping our mines in good shape. We're very open with the regulators' top management, and they're very dedicated to safety. So I have no belief that we are not doing as good or better job than others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Political violence -- political unrest turns violent in a former Soviet republic, and right in the middle, a U.S. air base. We will get a live report.

First, though, our "Random Moment" in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Got to tell you, rarely will death rise to a "Random Moment of the Day," except maybe when gramps is sleeping with the fishes.

A manmade reef three miles off south Florida is actually a green cemetery. You can become part of the seascape once you're no longer on the landscape.

Remains are cremated, mixed with concrete, and molded into an aquatic shape. Yes, building blocks for the reef. And there's space for 125,000 of them.

So, while you wait for the inevitable, go scuba diving and visit the dearly departed, a rather grave "Random Moment of the Day."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: To Central Asia now, where a day of violent protests has left the country of Kyrgyzstan under a state of emergency. Keep in mind this is where the U.S. operates a key supply center for troops in Afghanistan.

Our senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is watching from Moscow for us.

And Matthew, good to see you again.

How serious is this?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty serious for Kyrgyzstan, it seems, Tony.

We've had thousands of people out on the streets throughout the course of the day, the last couple of days, in fact, to cross the country, clashing with the security forces there. They've tried to break up the crowds that are calling for the government to resign, the president to step down there. And the police have opened fire on the crowd, killing at least 19 people, according to the health ministry that we managed to speak to there in Kyrgyzstan.

According to the opposition figures who are spearheading this rebellion against the government, about 100 people have been killed. We've been unable to verify that. The truth probably lies somewhere in between.

But as you mentioned there, the real concern being expressed by the State Department, for instance, by other governments, as well, is that this country remains stable. It is a key place, a key staging ground, if you will, for the U.S. military, for instance, that use the Manas Air Base there to resupply the troops on the ground in Afghanistan. And so the U.S. watching this very carefully, indeed, this unstable situation -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK. So, Matthew, I understand the cause to sack the government and move forward in a different direction. But what's at issue here? What's driving this?

CHANCE: It's an issue of general discontent and frustration with the performance of the president, President Bakiev. He is seen as being very corrupt by the people in the country, by many of them.

He's installed his relatives, members of his entourage in the key government positions, and runs it like a personal fiefdom, all to the loss of ordinary Kyrgyz people, of course, who are protecting against rising fuel prices and the rising cost of living and things like that. And this frustration has bubbled out on to the streets and had these deadly, deadly consequences.

HARRIS: Yes. That's pretty sizeable, too.

OK. Matthew Chance for us in Moscow.

Matthew, appreciate it. Thank you.

And President Obama gets set to head to the Czech Republic to sign a landmark treaty with Russia. He leaves Washington for Prague a few hours from now. In the Czech capital, he and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will sign a new nuclear arms agreement. If it is ratified, the treaty will slash arsenals by almost a third. It also includes new limits on missiles and bombers and measures to verify compliance. President Obama sees it as a key feature in his drive to curb the global spread of nuclear weapons.

Parts of the United States on alert today for what could be some pretty rough weather. We will check in with that man right there, Chad Myers, in our CNN Severe Weather Center in just a moment.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

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HARRIS: Let's get a market check here.

I've got to tell you, it's been pretty flat -- well no, no, no. I thought we were flat, but we're not.

NASDAQ is flat, but we've been trading in negative territory throughout the morning here with the Dow. As you can see, we are down 28 points. We're following these numbers, of course, for you throughout the day, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Checking our top stories for you now.

Rescue teams are standing by waiting to go back into a West Virginia coal mine to find four miners. The governor says the third hole has to be drilled first to release toxic gasses that have built up inside the mine since Monday's deadly explosion.

In the red again. General Motors reports $3.4 billion loss for the last quarter of 2009. Most of that money is said to be a one-time payment to the union's retirement plan. On the other side, Ford and Toyota reporting profits for the same period.

Rio de Janeiro virtually shut down after record-breaking rain. More than 11 inches of rain fell on the Brazilian city yesterday, triggering deadly floods and mudslides. The death toll has topped 100 and is expected to climb. More rain in the forecast today.

Another check of your top stories in 20 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Scandals rocking the Catholic Church. A priest accused of sexually abusing minors, new cases are coming to light in five European countries.

Critics are claiming Pope Benedict helped cover up the scandal when he was a cardinal. The Vatican says it's a smear campaign and not true.

We are bringing you special coverage this half hour. We are asking the questions you want answered.

Moving forward, what is the Catholic Church doing to address the problem of pedophile priests? And what do these accusations mean to the more than one billion people around the world who call themselves Catholics?

The scandal first exploded in the United States a decade ago. The most recent case to come to light, a priest who served in Minnesota in 2004 and 2005 is now accused of sexually abusing two girls at his parish.

CNN tracked down the Reverend Joseph in his native India, where he now works as an administrator for his diocese. He told CNN he was not aware of the criminal and civil complaints against him, and would return to the U.S. to clear his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JOSEPH PALANIVEL JEYAPAUL, ACCUSED PRIEST: They say that I kissed the child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's it?

JEYAPAUL: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The accusations now are that this girl says that you threatened the lives of her family members if she didn't come to your office and perform oral sex.

JEYAPAUL: It is a lie. It's totally a lie, because I did not have any contact with them. No contact. No communication.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With children at all?

JEYAPAUL: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would someone accuse you in this way if there were no truth to this?

JEYAPAUL: I think there may be to get money from the diocese.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: All right. Let's do this -- let's bring in CNN senior Vatican analyst John Allen. He has written two books about Pope Benedict and is currently the Vatican correspondent for "The National Catholic Reporter," and he joins us from Denver.

John, it's good to see you.

Let me touch on first something you brought up in a recent story you authored. You quote the pope, then Joseph Ratzinger, in 2002, when he was asked about the pedophile priest scandal in the United States. And he said in part, "In the church, priests are also sinners, but I am personally convinced that the constant presence in the press of the sins of Catholic priests, especially in the United States, is a planned campaign, as the percentage of these offenses among priests is not higher than in other categories. And perhaps it is even lower. One comes to the conclusion that it is intentional, manipulated, that there is a desire to discredit the church."

So here's my question. The Catholic Church, then and now, seems to be blaming the messenger to some degree.

How do you explain this response? What gives?

JOHN ALLEN, CNN SENIOR VATICAN ANALYST: Well, I think there are two things going on at once.

I mean, on the one hand, it is clear that Pope Benedict has been on a learning curve about this crisis. And I think basically from 2001, 2002, forward -- because let's remember it was in 2001 that John Paul II put him in charge of this mess -- he has had to get his hands around the reality of it in a new way. And I think the tone that he struck in 2002 was obviously quite different than the tone he struck, for example, in his recent pastoral letter to Ireland in which he apologized explicitly for the crisis and talked about the depth and the magnitude of what's happened.

HARRIS: Yes.

ALLEN: But the other thing that's going on, of course, is that there is a kind of circle-the-wagons mentality afoot in many Catholic circles. And their theory would be that, while there obviously is a real crisis here, that that crisis is also being manipulated by people who don't like the Church for other reasons.

I mean, they could argue that some in media don't like the Catholic Church because, for example, of its stance on abortion or homosexuality. They would argue that there are some people inside the Church who kind of have an agenda for trying to change the Church, and they're sort of piggybacking on the crisis to advance it.

They would also argue that there are some tort attorneys out there who look at the deep pockets of the Catholic Church, particularly in the United States, and that gives them an incentive to try to paint the Church in a negative light.

So, on the one hand, I think church officials are honestly trying to come to grips with the reality of the situation. I think that's being complicated, however, by certain conspiracy theories they hold about people being out to get them.

HARRIS: Right. And to the point you were making about the tone, the Church seems to be saying that that was then, this is now, and the tone has changed. Judge us on how we're dealing with this issue right now.

What's the evidence on this? Does the evidence suggest that this pope has been more aggressive in addressing this issue of pedophile priests?

ALLEN: Well, I think the evidence is clear that Joseph Ratzinger, the man who is now Benedict XVI, certainly has been more aggressive on this crisis both before and after his election to the papacy than the other senior Vatican official. I mean, this is the guy who, beginning in 2001, sort of kick-started the Vatican's wheels of justice in trying to expel abusive priests from the priesthood.

HARRIS: At the behest of John Paul II, correct?

(CROSSTALK)

ALLEN: I'm sorry?

HARRIS: At the behest of Pope John Paul II, correct?

ALLEN: That's right, at the direction of John Paul II. And then as pope, Benedict is the guy, first pope to meet with victims, first guy to break the Vatican's wall of silence on this issue.

But on the other hand, you know, what critics will say is that while all of that may represent progress, it hasn't gone nearly far enough. And they would usually point to two things.

One, this case of this Indian priest in Minnesota who, of course, is now back in India, illustrates that the Catholic Church still does not have a global standard for dealing with these cases. Because if that guy were still in the United States, the American policies are clear that he should no longer be serving as a priest.

The other thing people will say is that while the Catholic Church has, to some extent, cleaned up its act on the issue of priests who abuse, there still remains question of the bishops who covered it up. And what critics will say is, there still has been no meaningful accountability for bishops who just quite obviously dropped the ball.

HARRIS: Yes.

How does the -- and I know that this is part of the writing that you're doing on this. How does the Vatican answer the question of whether then-Cardinal Ratzinger reassigned pedophile priests?.

ALLEN: Well, today there's been one such case that has emerged, which is a case from his years as the archbishop of Munich. This is a case of a priest who came from another diocese, was sent to Munich for therapy, ended up in another parish while the future pope was the archbishop. Went on to abuse other people and was criminally convicted for that in 1986.

Now, what both the Vatican and officials in Munich have said is that the pope didn't know the details, that these decisions were made at lower levels. What critics will say, of course, is that, ultimately, that really doesn't do the trick, because the buck stopped at his desk and he has to take responsibility for it.

You know, here's what I think is going on. I think the first wave of response from the Vatican, from other senior leaders in the Church, whenever the pope is under siege, their first response is to defend him. That's sort of just in the Catholic DNA. And so all of this finger-pointing at the media, I think, comes out of it.

I think over time, however, there's going to have to be a careful appraisal of the pope's record. And I think if there are indeed failures and gaps in that record, there's going to have to be an accounting for them, because, look, the bottom line is, there is a positive story to be told about Benedict's response to this crisis. But nobody is going to listen to that as long as what they're hearing from the Vatican is just sort of blanket denial and blaming the media.

HARRIS: John Allen for us.

John, appreciate it. Good to see you again. Thank you.

ALLEN: You bet.

HARRIS: And still ahead, one man shares his painful story of sexual abuse when he was a student at a Catholic school for the deaf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR BUDZINSKI (through daughter translating): If I was never molested, I would be normal. But I was molested. I'm not normal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

***12 HARRIS: Pope Benedict worked at the Vatican when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. And in the early 2000s, he took personal charge of all abuse cases and designed reforms to stop the misconduct.

CNN's Diana Magnay reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): He's been pope for five years, the head of the office which enforces church doctrine for more than 20 years before that. Now, as child abuse allegations against priests spring up from all corners of the Catholic church, Benedict's bishops are rushing to his defense.

"No one has been more vigorous in cleansing the church of the effects of this sickening sin than the man we now call Pope Benedict XVI," said this Archbishop of New York in his Palm Sunday mass.

"His actions speak as well as his words," said the Archbishop of Westminster in a letter to "The London Times."

So just what action has Pope Benedict taken to protect children in the church today? It all goes back to canon law. There are two documents which the then Cardinal Ratzinger drew up in 2001 that changed everything. Before then, abuse only had to be reported to the Vatican if it took place or was solicited inside the confessional. And only then, because it was a violation of the Sacrament of the Penitence.

After these documents came out, every case of abuse had to go straight to Ratzinger's office. Bishops were granted the ability to strike a priest straight out of ministry. They were told to report cases to the civil authorities if the law required it.

Benedict became the first pope ever to meet victims of abuse in Australia and the United States in 2008. But there are still question marks over his past record as a senior Vatican cardinal which overshadow his efforts at reform.

MARCO POLITI, VATICAN ANALYST: There are all the facts which happened in the '90s and the '80s, in the '60s going back when the mainstream attitude of the church was really to cover up or at least sometimes to pay the victims, but to ask silence.

MAGNAY: Critics claim Pope Benedict was part of that culture. A legacy he's finding hard to shake. His continuing silence not making it any easier.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Diana Magnay joining me now live from the Vatican.

Diana, I've got the tell you, my sense of this is that the Catholic church has been saying, judge us by what we're doing now in the aftermath of the U.S. scandal. But as John Allan mentioned just a moment ago, a more global view of this problem of pedophile priests would probably be helpful. If you would, take a moment and walk us through the very specific steps bishops are to take when an accusation is made.

MAGNAY: Yes. Well, there are very strict guidelines on what they have to do, John (ph). First of all, they have to make a preliminary investigation themselves and see whether the accusation is credible. If they decide that it is credible, they then have to take it directly to the congregation for the doctrine of the faith and also to the civil authorities, if, as I said in that report, if the law of the land requires it.

At which point the congregation has various options. They tend to send the case directly back to the local bishop to deal with, on a plenary basis, themselves. But they can also deal with it at the Vatican level. Or if it's extremely serious, they can take it directly to the pope, who can have the priest defrocked. So those are the stages -- Tony.

HARRIS: OK. And, Diana, so what is the Vatican going to hold bishops accountable for some of these priests that have been moved really from parish to parish?

Diana, can you hear me? OK. We just lost Diana. My apologies.

In just a couple of minutes, I'm going to talk with a former priest who now investigates sex abuse cases. We also want you to weigh in. What question do you have? What would you ask a former priest? Go to our blog, cnn.com/tony. Send us your questions and we will have our guest weigh in with answers in just a moment.

Another recent case to come to light in the U.S. allegedly happened at a Catholic school for the deaf in Wisconsin. Two hundred boys allegedly molested by a priest. Father Lawrence Murphy, seen here in a Vatican photo over the decades. Here's a story of one of those boys, now a 61-year-old man, from CNN all platform journalist Sarah Hoi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GIGI BUDZINSKI, DAUGHTER OF ARTHUR BUDZINSKI: Who's my hero on my Facebook? My father. You are my hero.

TEXT: This is Arthur Budzinski. He says he was abused three times by Father Lawrence Murphy while a student at St. John's School for the Deaf in St Francis, Wisconsin. He was 12. His life was changed forever.

ARTHUR BUDZINSKI (through daughter translating): Really, it's not normal. If I was never molested, I would be normal. But I was molested. I'm not normal.

TEXT: He says he repeatedly told those in charge about Father Murphy.

G. BUDZINSKI: Because I think about when he was 26, the age I am now, he fought so hard. I could never imagine right now having to do what he did at his age. When he was 26, he (INAUDIBLE). He was talking to Archbishop Collins (ph) and he was doing all this. I could never imagine right now me having to do that.

TEXT: He received a settlement for $80,000 from the Archdiocese of Milwaukee in 2006 (ph).

A. BUDZINSKI: I don't know. The money was nothing. It was nothing. It's gone. It did nothing.

TEXT: Despite a painful past, Arthur says he is blessed.

G. BUDZINSKI: But he always thought, I want to have children. Now he's happy he has me and my sister, Kiki (ph).

TEXT: His message is loud and clear.

A. BUDZINSKI: Keep fighting. Keep fighting. Father Murphy died and I was still doing it. I saw him up north. I saw him all over the place and I keep fighting. Never give up. Never give up. I won't ever give up.

TEXT: Arthur and his daughter, GiGi, vow to continue sharing their story to help all victims of abuse, both deaf and hearing.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HARRIS: Man. So what can be done to prevent future abuse cases like this one? A former priest who now investigates allegations of sexual abuse by Catholic priests joins me with his insight. And we will hear from another former priest on whether doing away with the vow of celibacy is the answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED GERLOCK, FORMER PRIEST: It would help a lot of people to grow, first of all. I mean, grow emotionally, sexually, you know, that they would be more holistic kind of people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Checking top stories now.

Crews have finished drilling the first of three holes in that mine in West Virginia. They are trying to release toxic gasses that are preventing rescuers from locating four missing miners.

An aide to Afghan President Hamid Karzai listen to this is denying claims that the leader threatened to join the Taliban. Several Afghan lawmakers said Mr. Karzai threatened to join the insurgency if the U.S. continued to pressure him to end corruption.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hope and faith will carry us through. Hope for the (INAUDIBLE) despite all the hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) immoral.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) definitely. And I think young men coming into the priesthood will definitely have to be better. And I think the celibacy thing should go. It should be a choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If back in the '70s when it was coming out, some of the people that were trying to blow the whistle on them were ordinary priests. They were probably just told, shut up. But the church has to complain, definitely. And no more pussy footing around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: OK. Without a doubt the Catholic church is in a bit of crisis here. There's the sex abuse scandal. But the church is also dealing with a tremendous shortage of priests. That brings us to our next question. If the church did away with the vow of celibacy, would more young men want to serve? Here's CNN's Anna Coren.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As the Catholic church searches for answers over the scandal that's rocked it to its core, the priesthood and the vow of celibacy is under scrutiny with calls for serious reform. Former Priest Ed Gerlock is one of those voices. He joined the seminary in New York, straight out of high school, where as a young man, curious about sex, he began to question his chosen vocation, which he believes is normal. But he admits the clergy also attracted people struggling with their sexuality.

ED GERLOCK, FORMER PRIEST: I don't think all the pedophiles are priests. In fact, probably a small minority. But there is that thing about, if you don't know how to deal with it, it's a safe haven for you.

COREN: He spent the next 27 years committing himself to God's work in the Philippines. And it was during that time he met Ching.

E. GERLOCK: When I was in parish (ph) I was thinking to myself, I don't think I want to do this for a very long time. And I genuinely loved this lady. In a sense, she saved my life.

COREN: Thirteen years of friendship blossomed. And at the age of 44, Ed left the priesthood and married his true love. The circle was complete with the birth of their daughter. While it created quite a scandal, Ching says her husband never deserted the church.

CHING GERLOCK, ED GERLOCK'S WIFE: First of all, love each other. Secondly, you continue doing the work that you are committed to.

COREN: Now at the age of 74, Ed strongly believes priests should be allowed to marry if they want to.

E. GERLOCK: It would help a lot of people to grow, first of all. I mean grow emotionally, sexually, you know, that they would be more holistic kind of people. That they would realize what people go through.

COREN: But, in his adopted Philippines, most of the faithful aren't quite as open minded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should not be allowed to marry so they could really give themselves to God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vow of celibacy, they promised that. It's their conviction. And I believe they should follow it.

COREN (on camera): Testament to the strength of the Catholic church here in the Philippines, more than 80 percent of the population is Catholic. And while there's been a significant drop off in other countries in recent years, especially among the younger population, here the people's faith remains as strong as ever.

(voice-over): The archbishop of Manila, Cardinal Rosales, says the Catholic church in the Philippines has seen its share of sex abuse scandals, but remains optimistic about its future.

CARDINAL GAUDENCIO B. ROSALES, ARCHBISHOP OF MANILA: The church will begin to better (ph) form when real reform (INAUDIBLE). We are now in a state of renewal.

COREN: But as for priests leading a marital life, the cardinal insists that won't be happening in his lifetime.

Anna Coren, CNN, Manila.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: So what is the answer to preventing future cases of minors being accused by priests? I'm joined now by Patrick Wall. He is a former priest and expert on Canon Law. Since leaving the priesthood, Patrick has made it his mission to work on behalf of victims of abuse. He is also one of the authors of the book "Sex, Priests, and Secret Codes." A look at the history of abuse in the Catholic church. And he joins me now from Irvine, California.

Patrick, good to talk to you.

You actually tell us that while you were a priest, it was actually your job to step in and help the church deal with people accusing priests of abuse. What did you actually do in those cases?

PATRICK WALL, CANON LAWYER: You simply move in and try to work with the people. There's a great case that just was announced this morning where a bishop in Norway, they found out in January of 2009 that he had sexually abused children. And then in May of 2009, the holy sea moved in and Cardinal Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI, put in an apostolic administrator, a person to take over and to work with the situation that was there. That's essentially what I did on the local level at the parish.

HARRIS: So what do you think of, of steps like that? Those are certainly steps that have come into practice since 2001.

WALL: These steps were already well established beforehand. The law has been clear for centuries. The procedures have been clear since the 18th century and what to do when a priest rapes or sodomizes a child, to remove them, to investigate and to move forward.

It's not a matter of law. It's a matter of what -- we need to reform the bishops. The bishops -- you know, we've had 19 credibly accused bishops in the United States. We have a new bishop that we just found out about today in Norway. It's a matter of leadership. And that's where the process of going through the files, the process of actually dealing with the criminals that are unfortunately within the church, needs to be removed and given to a civil authority that's going to do it.

HARRIS: What's the bishops' problem?

WALL: The bishops have a problem in the sense that they want to avoid scandal at all costs. That they want to maintain this perfect society. That they want to be able to put forward the church as a divinely inspired institution and forgetting the human side. And on the human side, we have to deal with the day-to-day problems. And we know that there's a certain percentage of priests and bishops and nuns and deacons who are going to sexually abuse children.

HARRIS: Well, Patrick, can you expand on that a little bit? Because I am interested in this instinct to sort of, it seems to me, circle the wagons, protect the priests, slap down the media. Can you expand on that a little bit? I think you're in a good area, a good space here.

WALL: Well, part of it is the culture that has been established over the years that, remember, as priests, when we're ordained, we are -- we become alter cristus (ph), where our entire entity has changed. And from that, we believe that we are at a higher state. And so the issue of -- and the status of the priesthood must be protected because the bishops are afraid that if people don't respect priests as that person who is the intermediary between them and God, then they really have no distinct part of their religion than any other religion.

HARRIS: Yes. I've got one quick question for you. All we have time for at this point. This is from someone who e-mailed this one to us. "Will the Catholic church consider removing Pope Benedict from power?" What's your view on this?

WALL: The holy father himself would have to step down. You know, unless he is completely physically or mentally incompetent, the College of Cardinals really can't move against him. Remember, he's the bishop of Rome. He really is -- he's the primary bishop, but he's still the bishop of Rome. And to remove a bishop, you have to have pretty grave cause.

And at this point, if you look at the way he's handling himself, he's extremely competent mentally. And he's got all the knowledge he needs on what to do with this particular crisis. But chances are he's going to maintain the tradition at all costs and live his life out.

HARRIS: Yes. Patrick Wall, appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

WALL: You're welcome.

HARRIS: A billion people call themselves Catholics. What do the priests serving their parishioners right now think of the church sex abuse scandal? We will hear from one of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And now the story of a Wisconsin priest who is speaking out against fellow priests who sexually abuse children and he is encouraging his flock to be vocal as well. Again, a report prepared by CNN all-platform journalist Sarah Hoi.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TEXT: Twenty-six percent of people living in Southeast Wisconsin are Catholic. Parishioners at St. Alphonsus Church in Milwaukee.

FATHER ALAN JURKUS: Coming outside for the convalescent. Here we come. Here we go.

TEXT: Prepared for Easter.

JURKUS: Oh, my goodness. I forgot the book. Lucky we have a deacon.

TEXT: They are also speaking out about abuse in the Catholic church.

JURKUS: And so the notion of Palm Sunday is to know that God walks with us in the good times and the difficult times that life has in store for us. And having just finished the homily, the good deacon brings the book and we pray.

TEXT: Father Alan Jurkus is leading his flock.

JURKUS: We've got lots of water.

TEXT: Break the silence.

JURKUS: Oh, but I'm getting wet, too.

You want to realize it's a different ball game now. That you have to really look at it as a legal matter and not just a moral matter. And for people who knowingly and willingly violated the law, there has to be some kind of accountability.

What we do when we gather, I'll give the homily before we start. How's that?

Well, when I look at holy week, the greatest mystery of the dying and the rising of Christ. And this is really a dying of the old church. I really believe that the business as usual can no longer be tolerated. And it's not being tolerated by so many people in the pews. And that's not a witch hunt. That's not vindictive. It's just saying, your old methods can't go on any more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: In just a moment, your thoughts as we focus on the Catholic church in crisis.

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HARRIS: You know, for much of this past hour, we've turned our focus to the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church. And, boy, we have been hearing from you. Thank you. You've weighed in with your questions for our guest. And now a few of your comments before we go and turn things over to Ali Velshi.

Michael from Texas says, "what we have here is a case of Roman- gate and America needs to show no mercy to cardinals in this country. If they get caught performing this lewd act, then they should be tried as pedophiles."

Laura from Uganda says, "the pope knows what he is doing. Let's wait for the pope and his cardinals to see what they will do next."

And then Roman says, "they will continue to do what they have been doing, cover up as much as possible and deny the rest."

Man, we've got folks responding to one another. Love that.

This from Ann who writes, "I know that the pope supports his priests, even sinners. But I do feel that a priest should be 'fired' if he commits these crimes."

Got to go. Double time here. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi.