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Protecting Your Money; 'Sliver of Hope' in West Virginia; Burning Battle Over Coal

Aired April 07, 2010 - 14:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It's a new hour. I've not a new "Rundown."

We are on the scene and continuing our coverage of the nation's worst mining disaster in a quarter century.

Plus, we're going to get down to the substance that has put so many miners in harm's way. Coal, where does it come from and why do we depend on it so much?

Plus, we all want unfettered, virtually unlimited access to the Internet, right? We want the stuff that we download to flow freely, unobstructed by corporate hands or corporate hurdles.

Well, a new court ruling might blow all of that up. I'll tell you everything you need to know.

Also on the "Rundown," a story that's really got me fired up. Spirit Airlines charging for baggage. Not the bags you check, the bags you carry on the plane with you. The bags you paid for, the bags you packed, the bags you carried yourself.

Enough is enough. What is next, an extra fee for a safe landing?

I'm a frequent flyer, I'm a CNN anchor, and I've got something to say about this in my "XYZ."

But first, our top story.

Crews are drilling more ventilation holes into the Upper Big Branch mine in West Virginia. They're hoping to clear the air of dangerous gases so rescue workers can get back in.

Monday's explosion at the mine killed at least 25 workers, but there is a slim chance that four missing miners may be alive. It's not clear yet when the rescue attempt can resume, but West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin says we should know by the end of the day.

Let's go straight to West Virginia. Brooke Baldwin standing by there.

Brooke, any update on that?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, we should be hearing from the governor, hopefully, Ali, in about an hour and a half. That's really the next opportunity we, as members of the media, will have as far as any kind of progress update, because you mentioned it. We all want to know when this rescue effort can begin again.

Really, the crux of this story right now is the drilling process. We're talking about five holes in total that all need to reach that 1,100 feet mark, deep down inside of this mountain.

How that works is, once they've drilled all five of these holes, they're going to grab these gigantic exhaust fans, and they're going to take, essentially sucking up all of the bad air, all the methane that's deep down inside that mine, read the levels, make sure it stays for these 30 rescue crew members who are perched atop this mine. They're ready to roll. Once they have established that the methane levels are, in fact, safe, they will go in and try to save these four missing miners.

And we heard from Governor Manchin earlier today, speaking about just really how dangerous the air is inside of this mine. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: They're trying to get those readings. Until we start getting those readings and knowing where we are and what type of air we have down there, we'll determine how quickly and what timetable we're on. Once we do that, then you'll have a better idea of when they believe that the air will be safe enough to send the rescue teams in.

The rescue teams are prepared. They've been -- they're charged up, ready to go, and they'll go in at a moment's notice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: One other note, Ali, quickly here, that I think is just interesting. Beyond these five holes, we heard from MSHA today, and they said they haven't done it yet, but at some point today they plan on issuing what they call this three-shot warning.

That is when all these guys own this mine, these rescue crew members, they'll be calling an all-quiet on the mountain. And they'll shoot these three shots. And that, essentially if, in fact, these miners are in that mine, if they're alive, if they can hear them, that is essentially a warning to these miners saying, we're here, help is on the way. But they have to wait until they test the methane levels, if it's safe, because if, in fact, these four miners are OK, if they're holed up in this rescue chamber, which is what everyone is hoping, the worry is that the air is not clean, they hear the shots, they try to leave, and if they've made it this long, they would perish if the air is poor.

So that is the final step, really.

VELSHI: So if they have made it this far, they're in a rescue chamber, they've got food there, they've got water there, and, in theory, the air is clean in that rescue chamber? BALDWIN: In theory. It's all of these "ifs, ifs, ifs," right?

So they have these SCSRs, and that's supposed to last them -- these self-rescuers -- for four days with oxygen. And if they have the food, and if they have the water, as you mentioned, and if they're in the rescue chamber, and if the air is clear, and if they get down, then it should be a happy ending. A lot of "ifs."

VELSHI: OK. There's a lot of hope and a lot of work going on.

Brooke, you'll keep us posted, and we will check in with you the minute you've got some development on this. And when we hear those three shots, we'll check in to see what's going on.

Brooke Baldwin in West Virginia.

All right. The good, the bad and the ugly. We talk about the pros and cons of coal and whether we should continue to mine it as much as we do coming up after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: There are very few topics that I have discussed in my career at CNN that elicit as much of a reaction as any discussion about this. This is a lump of coal. This is the most abundant fossil fuel in this nation. With the coal mine explosion in West Virginia, it gives us a perfect opportunity to talk about the pros and cons of coal.

Let's start with why you should care.

Whether or not you agree with using coal for energy, it is the most abundant fossil fuel in the United States. The United States has more coal reserves in the ground than the rest of the world has oil. That's an important thing to remember. Both of these things are very similar chemical make-ups, and they both do very similar things.

The U.S. has more coal than the rest of the world has oil. There's enough coal underground in the United States to provide energy for the next 200 to 300 years, depending on who you ask about this.

Let's talk about how coal is made. This is a very bare-bones description, but hundreds of millions of years ago there'd be this primordial swamps, and these trees would eventually die and they would fall under the water. The plants were buried under water and dirt, so there would be water, there would be the seabed, and then there'd be these dead plants and dinosaur bones and things like that.

As oceans and continents shifted, the heat and the pressure turned those dead plants into this, into coal. By the way, it's the same pressure that creates oil. It's the same pressure if you really, really apply it that creates diamonds. They are all the same thing.

Now, there are two main uses for coal.

First and foremost, electric power. Ninety-three percent of the coal used in the United States goes toward generating electricity. That is our main use for coal.

Some industries use coal as a primary source of energy. They actually burn the coal to fire the plants. But generally, it is burned to create electricity, except for a small amount of export. The rest of the coal, about seven percent, is used as a basic resource in energies like steel, cement and paper.

OK, so let's talk about how coal is used and the science behind burning it.

Trapped inside this lump of coal are traces of impurities like sulfur and nitrogen. And when you burn it, those impurities are released into the air. CO2 emissions, when those things are released into the air and they rain down, you might think of it as acid rain, but these add pollutants to the air.

And before anybody gets up in my grill about being pro-or-anti- coal, I'm just giving you facts. There's nobody who can tell you that burning coal is clean. It is abundant, it is cheap. These are the two sides to the coal debate.

Pro-coal folks say that coal is cheap. If it were as expensive as oil, we wouldn't begin to use nearly as much of it.

Anti-coal folks say it's remarkably dirty and it is not worth the cost to the environment, the danger to workers, the health impacts. Mining coal can have a negative impact on the ecosystem and on water. It can alter landscapes and, of course, ruin the view.

There are very different views on the importance of coal and whether or not we should be doing it. Industries are trying to figure out ways to burn coal cleaner.

There are technologies out there, but is there something that you can really call clean coal? Again, I'm asking. I'm putting that question out there. And we're going to tell you more about it tomorrow and the rest of this week.

I didn't say there was. I didn't say there wasn't. I'm just telling you that this is a big debate out there. This is one of the most important things in this country.

All right. More about that later.

Imagine this -- take an old pickle barrel and make it a lifesaver. It sounds silly, right? But two ex-firefighters did just that. They ended up "Building Up America" with pocket change.

You've got to hear this story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: The economy's recovering. It's still tough out there. Fewer fire departments have the budget to buy state-of-the-art equipment, so two brothers, both ex-firefighters, saw that need and they found a solution. And now their work is "Building Up America" and saving lives.

CNN's David Mattingly has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It came from out of nowhere. One second, Francisco Tuttle was feeling fine.

FRANCISCO TUTTLE, HEART ATTACK VICTIM: It was a typical day, a typical morning; had a busy schedule that day. And --

MATTINGLY (on camera): This is where it happened?

TUTTLE: Right here, exactly.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): But in an instant, he was on the floor, unconscious, not breathing, no pulse, the victim of a sudden heart attack.

(voice-over): Francisco Tuttle had no way of knowing at that time that his life was about to depend on an unusual act of philanthropy, the donation of a special piece of equipment that came about in a very unusual set of events.

(on camera): Francisco Tuttle was saved by a pickle bucket?

CHRIS SORENSEN, FOUNDER, FIREHOUSE SUBS: In one way or another.

ROBIN SORENSEN, FOUNDER, FIREHOUSE SUBS: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Brothers Chris and Robin Sorensen are former firefighters who founded a national chain of sandwich shops called Firehouse Subs. Their connection to Francisco Tuttle and that pickle bucket we were talking about has its roots dating back 5 years to the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

R. SORENSEN: We're giving these people who have lost everything a hot plate of food and half of them were breaking down crying.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): That happened in Pearlington, Mississippi, virtually wiped out by the storm. The Sorensen brothers drove in food and supplies. Not feeling like that was enough, they decided to give the town a used fire truck they found on eBay.

(on camera): And you just couldn't stop after that?

R. SORENSEN: No, that was just the beginning.

C. SORENSEN: You start to see the big picture and believe me, everybody needs something. There's no department that doesn't need some kind of a gear.

MATTINGLY: Since 2005, the Sorensen Brothers Foundation has donated more than $2 million worth of equipment in 13 states. A lot of that money comes from selling pickle buckets emptied by their shops. R. SORENSEN: We sell 5,000 to 10,000 pickle buckets a month. At $2 a-piece, that all goes in the foundation and it keeps them out of landfills too.

C. SORENSEN: Yes, it's great.

MATTINGLY: That money helped pay for this device called the AutoPulse (ph), donated to the Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina Fire Department which brings us back to Francisco Tuttle.

TUTTLE: I was dead.

MATTINGLY: The precision nonstop compressions of the donated AutoPulse brought Tuttle back from the brink. And today I'm bringing him to meet the guys who made it possible.

(on camera): Got somebody I would like you to meet. This is Francisco Tuttle.

C. SORENSEN: Francisco.

TUTTLE: What's up, brother.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): This is the first time the Sorensens had ever met someone saved by their acts of charity.

TUTTLE: If it wasn't for your contributions and your donations, I wouldn't be here.

MATTINGLY: Two ex-firemen finding new ways to come to the rescue.

David Mattingly, CNN, Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: Checking some of the top stories that we're following here at CNN.

Rescue crews are drilling more vent holes at a West Virginia coal mine today, trying to air out poisonous methane gas. Four miners are unaccounted for after that explosion on Monday that killed 25 others.

We expect a live update from the mine safety officials and West Virginia's governor in just over an hour.

Home depot is building up its workforce, adding new jobs for the first time in four years. The company had a better-than-expected fourth quarter and says sales should only strengthen these next few months.

And the rains are finally starting to weaken in Brazil. Rio de Janeiro has been swamped by about 11 inches of rain in 36 hours, causing terrible floods and mudslides. At least 102 deaths have been reported. More victims are expected to be found under all that mud. And we're going to bring it back here to talk about whether -- Chad is just getting it ready for us -- the Atlantic hurricane season is just a couple of months away. And, guess what? This season, at least some people think, is looking to be a busy one.

We'll get to Chad right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: This is WCVB, our affiliate in Boston. A fire in a building at -- on Beacon Street. We believe this is Beacon Street. We're working to confirm all this.

It appears to be on the seventh floor of a 10-story building. Again, initial reports coming in are that it is a six-alarm fire at a building on Beacon Street.

You can see this firefighter now going up there. He's got something in his hand that is going to probably allow him to break a window and get in.

This is affiliate footage coming in from WCVB. We are following this and getting you more information. But it does appear that -- initial reports, again -- is that there are people.

Now, this is the address that it's being reported at. We have not got that confirmed just yet, but it does appear that this is on Beacon Street, 483 Beacon Street.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We're going to zoom right in for you.

VELSHI: Which is between Massachusetts Avenue and Hereford Street in Back Bay in Boston. Very warm weather there.

MYERS: Still moving in. It's going to be almost 80 degrees there today, certainly. And people were in distress, they were saying, about this building. And there's the building there.

VELSHI: There it is.

MYERS: You can clearly see, that's the building that we were showing, that I can show you again by getting rid of that. And there it is right there.

VELSHI: And take a look at this, six-alarm fire. Look at this, ladder here, ladder here, ladder here, ladder here.

Emergency vehicles all around, lots of people gathered around there. And as I recall, if the picture pans over to the right, you can see the flames or the heavy smoke coming out on the right. We can't see it in this shot right now.

Anyway, bottom line is we are on this story. Our affiliates are on it. We will bring you any information that we have.

But you can see that it does look like there are attempted rescues under way. Six ladders that I can see. There may be more. It's a six-alarm fire on Beacon Street. We believe it's on Beacon Street.

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: When we come back, listen, if you download a lot of heavy-duty material maybe from YouTube, or maybe watching videos, things may change for you. It might become a lot more expensive for you to do that because of a ruling that's just come out.

I'm going to tell you about that on the other side. And we'll stay on this fire.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: There's this mythical headline floating around out there today about the Federal Communication Commission, the FCC, net neutrality rule and this big fight between the FCC and Comcast, which as you know is the nation's biggest cable provider. It involves access to the Internet. And now like we do every day on this show, I want to break down why you should know and care about this.

It all ultimately comes down to this. Mark, let's show our viewers. This is my trusty pipe. I love these -- these props that I have.

Let's say this is the pipe that carries your Internet. Right, nice big pipe, you Internet flows through here. Right now, everybody has equal access to the Internet. Comcast won a court battle yesterday against the FCC to segment that Internet connection.

Don't leave just yet. I'm going to get into this a little more, but I'm going to get into it with somebody who knows a lot more about this than I do, Shelly Palmer, good friend of mine, the host of "Digital Life With Shelly Palmer" joins me right now from New York.

I have to say first, Shelly, good to see you.

Net neutrality needs a better PR agent, because nobody knows what it is or why it matters, but this could be a big deal. The FCC says that everything going through the Internet needs to be treated the same way and paid for the same way; Comcast disagrees.

Tell me, give me more of an explanation on this.

SHELLY PALMER, HOST, "DIGITAL LIFE WITH SHELLY PALMER": OK, well, first of all, let's sort this out a little bit.

The ruling that the U.S. appeals court came to yesterday really wasn't about net neutrality at all. It was about the FCC and what it can and cannot do. VELSHI: Got it.

PALMER: Now, the FCC's mandate is to govern the Internet, and what they found out yesterday in court was that they don't have the authority to -- to enforce any of the things it's supposed to mandate, so that's, like, a little technicality. It has absolutely nothing really to do with net neutrality at all. This is a -- this is a -- I'm not a lawyer, but this is a legal issue and it's not essentially in the Spirit of the legislation. The FCC's job is to regulate the Internet and the court case was about do they have the authority to tell Comcast what to do on the Internet, and as it turns out, no, not in this case, they don't.

VELSHI: OK, so Comcast's argument was they need the right to be able to decide particularly how they charge for usage on the Internet and Comcast's argument, both of us not being lawyers, had something to do with illegal downloading and file sharing.

PALMER: Forget all that. That's all a smokescreen. We could talk about it all day long, that's a smokescreen. The court ruling yesterday was about a legal technicality which, by the way, the legislature is going to have to deal with.

Now, let's talk about the Spirit of net neutrality --

VELSHI: Right.

PALMER: -- and what that is.

VELSHI: All right, what is it?

PALMER: It started by saying, hey, there's a big pipe, and that's a nice way to describe the Internet. Think about it a little differently. There are roads that go all across America, we have an interstate highway system and some of the roads have tolls on them, and the entire net neutrality issue is whose allowed to charge you a toll and for what and when.

People who say net neutrality should be enforced are saying there should be no tolls on the Internet, that all traffic should go toll free everywhere. And people who are against net neutrality, if that's a thing we can say, their job is they're basically saying, hey do you know what, I own this road and I can charge a toll if I want to.

VELSHI: That would be Comcast. The tool booth collector in this case is Comcast. They're saying we own the road.

PALMER: Absolutely.

VELSHI: They need -- who do they want to charge more to or less to? Is this like an 18-wheeler going through pays a higher toll than a motorcycle?

PALMER: Look, there is actually something here to this argument and it's a little bit non-subtle. Let's play pretend for a second, I want to be as nasty as I can, the worst-case scenario just for sake of an argument.

Let's say you are Comcast and you've got Xfinity, which is their version of Hulu where people can come and watch video online for free. But it's not really free, because they're paying Comcast for their relationship with Comcast. Now Netflix wants to send their signal over a Comcast pipe and Comcast decides, because they can, to charge Netflix more money which would give Comcast an unfair competitive advantage or would disadvantage Netflix.

Now, if you take that out across the whole Internet, I could charge people coming over my pipes more, charge less for my content and put myself in a situation where I can really put you out of business because I own the road and you can't travel on it or you can't afford to pay the toll.

That's the -- that's what everybody is scared of. It's not going to go there, it's certainly not going to happen today, but at its worst-case scenario, that's what the fear is.

VELSHI: What ultimately -- is this cost me money, the FCC lost the decision yesterday?

PALMER: I don't think this is going to cost any consumer money right this minute, but I think it's important to understand that the FCC has a job to do. And look, net neutrality is really good for consumers in one respect, and it's also very good for business in another respect. It's a complex issue that's not clear-cut. There are six principles that Julius Genachowski, who is the commissioner of the FCC, has laid out. They are with they are smart, they need to be discussed and everybody's going to have their own point of view.

At the end of the day, to answer your question, unfortunately, yes, prices will go up for everybody. However, if there as much competition for your bandwidth dollar as we believe there will be coming up, then you know what, the free market, as defined, will probably prevail and we will probably see good, competitive pricing for bandwidth.

VELSHI: Shelly, that's the clearest explanation I've seen of this yet, and I've done a lot of reading.

Always great to see you.

PALMER: It's great to see you too.

VELSHI: Thanks very much, Shelley Palmer, the author of "Digital Life" and a whole bunch of great books and DVDs on how to understand the Internet. Shelley, good to see you, come back and visit us often, OK?

PALMER: Thanks so much, Ali.

VELSHI: If you are about to become a homeowner, it might be time to sign on the dotted line. Cheap loans just got more expensive and some people say it's going to continue to get more expensive. I'll break down what higher interest rates mean for your bottom line when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Early this morning, we heard that interest rates have gone up. Average interest rates for 30-year fixed mortgage have gone up to 5.3 percent. That's actually a pretty big increase. They've been hanging around 5 percent for a while.

I want to give you a sense of how that impacts your decision to take a mortgage, to buy a house. You might be thinking about buying a house. I have evened things out. I've actually gone to California to use the example, because California is sort of an exaggerated model of what happened in the United States over the last few years.

I want to go back to 2006. The median price of a single-family home, that's a normal home, in California back in 2006 was $576,000. That means all -- half of all houses sold for more than that, half sold for less. That's not an average, that's the median. You needed to put at least 20 percent. Well, you didn't need to, but let's assume you put 20 percent down. That would cost you $115,000. Interest rates back in 2006 were about 6.5 percent for a 30-year, fixed mortgage. So you would a monthly basis pay $2,900 for the house. So you put $115,000 down you paid $2,900 a month, you're total cost of owning that house over 30 years, just over a million dollars.

Move forward to last year, 2009. Look at how the home prices have come down, it was $576,000 then -- let's do 2009. All right, come on. I'm going to bring you out. Bring out 2009. I think our TV is broken.

OK. Well, let me show you. There we go. There we go. I knew I could bring my magic to work here.

The median price of the house is almost -- it's more than in half. Your down payment, which is still 20 percent, substantially smaller, $49,000. Your interest rate, much lower last year, 4.8 percent. So your monthly payment on that house went from $2,900 to $1,000. Your bottom line, over 30 years, $370,000 versus over a million dollars.

Take it forward to 2010. Right now, today, that price of that house, thankfully to some people, has started to go up again. About $279,000 is the median price for a house. Down payment at 20 percent, about $56,000. Interest rates have, as I just said, gone up to 5.3 percent so your monthly has now gone from $1,000 if you bought it last year to $1,243 a month and the total cost of owning that house is $447,000.

So, my point here is even if home prices stay the same or go down a little bit, the bottom line this is the thing you have to look at, these interest rates are the important matter. A lot of people think we're going up from here, probably close to about 6 percent. That's an important thing to think about if you're thinking about buying a house. But, please, this depends on where you live. In some places prices are going down further. All right, stay with us. When we come back -- you want to do it now? Let's take a look, let's bring you up to speed on some of the top stories we're covering here on CNN.

In West Virginia, rescuers plan to drill another vent hole in a mine where 25 people were killed in an explosion on Monday. They hope to vent enough poisonous gas to safely get inside the Upper Big Branch Mine to look for four missing miners. Investigators believe a buildup of methane contributed to the explosion. The mine has repeatedly been cited for problems with its ventilation system.

In the former Soviet Republic of Kyrgyzstan, at least 40 people have been killed in anti-government protests. Demonstrations have swept the central Asian nation, which is a key U.S. ally, following recent hikes in oil and gas prices. An American air base used in the war in Afghanistan is said to be operating normally in that country.

And a possible new way to save money, change the font in the documents you print. This is fascinating, according to the Dutch company, printer.com different fonts require different amounts of ink to print. So if you're a heavy printer, you could be buying fewer printing cartridges if you wrote in Century Gothic rather than a font called Arial. We could learn a lesson from that here on CNN. Take a look that.

All right, when we come back, it is that time again. Time for "The Ed Henry Segment." There he is in Prague. I'm going to talk to him in just a moment. We we've got some very interesting things to talk about. Stay with us and we'll talk to Ed in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: It takes two because you cannot do "The Ed Henry Segment" without Ed Henry. Even though he's out of Washington, our senior White House correspondent continues to join us -- I don't care whether you see him elsewhere on the network, you don't get what we get with "The Ed Henry Segment." He's in Prague, where President Obama getting ready to leave Washington for Prague for a very, very important meeting with -- with the Russian leader.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Russian President Medvedev. They're going to be signing a new START Treaty, reducing arms, really cutting nuclear warheads in a range of about 2,200 right now on each side down to about 1,500 on each side.

This is a big deal. And the White House in private is being very aggressive about saying this wouldn't have happened without real presidential leadership, and President Obama stepping up and really pushing these negotiations along. And they realize that in the last few months, while he was taking a lot of hits on health care on the domestic front, he's also been taking a lot of hits on the foreign policy front. Mideast peace not going anywhere, a lot of suggestions out there that this president hasn't accomplished a lot on the international stage. They are being very aggressive now about saying, pay close attention to these pictures on Thursday, because they feel the president has come up with a real achievement here, Ali. VELSHI: And if you come up with a real achievement and you're the president of the United States, your reward is nesting dolls?

HENRY: Well, yes. How about this? I went on the streets for this segment. You see this, "Be Obama." And I hope the president is watching now, cause I know he takes a close look at this segment. This is the Russian-style dolls. So you peel one off and you take off the president, and who do you have? You have the first lady underneath. It's kind of an interesting little doll there. Another layer, you've got one of the daughters. I got a surprise for you at the end, so that's why you've got to stick around for this.

VELSHI: OK, good.

HENRY: Another doll -- yes, cause otherwise you were wondering why are we going through the whole thing?

Other daughter. And then, bam, Beau, the dog, all the way in there. So I picked this up on the street, since the president doesn't have a chance to do any shopping, he's going to be a little busy with the new START Treaty. Maybe I'll send it along to the White House.

Although, I have to tell you, our bureau chief, David Borman (ph), when I was in Moscow last year wanted one of these nesting dolls. I didn't bring it back for him then and I got in a little hot water, so I may have to bring it back for him. Sorry, Mr. President.

VELSHI: Yes, you don't really want to be upsetting the bureau chief.

You don't want to necessarily be upsetting the entire administration either, but President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan seems to have done that. He's got the administration hot under the collar with some comments he's been making. Tell us about how that's playing out.

HENRY: Well, every couple of days he's slamming the West, going after the U.S. basically, which has been helping him along, essentially propping him up going back to the Bush administration. And I think to the end of last year when I sat down and interviewed President Obama in China, I asked him directly, do you trust President Karzai, and he never directly answered that.

And I think it was yesterday, my colleague Jake Tapper at ABC asked Robert Gibbs is President Karzai an ally, and Robert Gibbs wouldn't directly answer that either. And basically said, look, there's some things he's says that we're on board with, there are other things we're really concerned about.

And the really interesting part is that Gibbs was basically leaving the door open to cancelling a big meeting that President Karzai is having in May at the White House with President Obama. If they were to cancel the meeting, that would show a real rupture in this relationship. It's going to be hard for them to do that, though. They have very limited leverage because Karzai is the only guy they got right now. We've committed so many U.S. troops on the ground in Afghanistan. You kind of got to stick with the guy you've got.

VELSHI: It's a little late in the game to be deciding he's not the guy your team.

HENRY: Absolutely.

VELSHI: Hey, listen, identify was reading something this morning in "The Wall Street Journal" that was talking about how beneficial it can be to have such a warm companionship as we have.

HENRY: Yes, you know, because we've gotten e-mails from Roland Martin and many other esteemed folks calling this a bromance, and I don't take offense at that. Because, you're right, you e-mailed me very early this morning and here in Prague, I started reading it because they've got the Internet here, by the way, Ali. I'm sure you probably know that.

And so I went on to wallstreetjournal.com and checked out this story about bromances. And yes, it's really helpful for men to have that, but I also learned in there, "The Wall Street Journal" had to report to us that when men get together for the kinds of friendships, they don't talk about their feelings. Apparently when women do, they talk about the feelings. So yet another nugget we're learning from "The Wall Street Journal," men don't talk about their feelings.

VELSHI: Is there something you want to talk about? Do you want to talk about your feelings?

HENRY: No, I think we'll keep it off the air. I mean, what they said is they basically get together and go to fishing and whatnot and they still talk about fishing. And the guy will say to the other guy, I just lost my job, I have a sick relative. And the other guy will say, I'm sorry, let's go back to fishing. And that's kind of what we do on this segment.

VELSHI: That's is kind of what we do. Every time we veer off, we all of a sudden have to end the segment.

HENRY: We just kind of move back.

VELSHI: Ed, good to see you. Stay well out there. And do you need me to ship you a tie or are you OK? Cause I see our missing one.

HENRY: You know, I kind of pulled back from the whole contest on the necktie, cause I'm in Prague, it's late at night, it's kind of chilly. So I'll put the windbreaker on and I'll get you next week.

VELSHI: All right, Ed Henry in Prague, he'll stay with us for "The Ed Henry Segment" every day at this hour. Check in with us to get the scoop from Ed.

We've got new developments at the Upper Big Branch Mine in West Virginia. Brooke Baldwin is standing by, she'll have an update live on the scene as soon we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELSHI: An update on our top story. Experts have started testing the air inside the Upper Big Branch Mine in West Virginia to see if it's safe for rescue crews to go back in. There are still slim hopes that four missing miners could be found alive. Twenty-five workers were killed in Monday's explosion, that's the worst U.S. mine disaster since 1984.

Brooke Baldwin is standing by in West Virginia, she's got the latest. Brooke, what do we got?

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Ali, you said slim hopes, but still, a lot of people here hopeful. We won't know the fate of those four missing miners until, you mentioned it, we hear about the air quality and these rescue teams are able to go in and try to get these guys.

The official word now, we can report, that these mining officials are testing the air quality levels within one of those drill holes that they've bored down 1,100 feet into the earth.

We had a camera crew, there a crew on the mountain witnessing the whole thing unfold, and we have heard from the vice president of surface operations, who's been doing some of this testing. Here's what he said --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE SNELLING, MASSEY ENERGY CO.: What we've done is we've put an exhausting fan on that hole so we can take air readings to measure the quality of the air that's down in the mine.

QUESTION: And what have you learned so far?

SNELLING: So far, we don't have any struck -- any final quality levels, but we are seeing some higher levels of methane and CO.

QUESTION: And so, what does that mean about how much time it would be before we would be able to get any information out of there about the fate of these miners?

SNELLING: I don't think we can get any information on time at this time, we really don't know. Because we're trying to measure the volume of air that's coming out and the quantity so we can try to determine that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So the big question, and he asked it, when can they go in, when can they send the three rescue crews -- 30 rescue members who are ready, willing, and able to go in once this testing is complete, once they know it's safe. We should, Ali, get a better idea, there's going to be another news conference., another update at this elementary school in just about 30 minutes, we should have a better idea sometime around then.

VELSHI: We don't know when they'll get the all-clear, but once they get the all-clear, how quickly can they mobilize? Are they ready to go in as soon as the all-clear is given?

BALDWIN: They are ready to go in. And then the next question is how long will it actually take them to reach the miners. They have an estimate where they are, about 8,000 feet in, about two miles. But keep in mind, you know, it's dusty, there's a ton of debris. The governor had mentioned some of the mining tracks looking like pretzels, it's awful in there, because this explosion was so horrendous. So that has been the next question, how long will it take to get to the missing miners -- Ali.

VELSHI: OK, Brooke, next update in about half an hour. We'll stay with it. Thanks very much.

Brooke Baldwin is part of our team in West Virginia.

OK, I'm really fired up about this one. Spirit Airlines telling us we have to shell out a fee for baggage that we carry on to the flight ourselves. I thought I heard it all when it came to nickel and diming airline passengers. And I'll just getting warmed up, I'll tell you how I really feel in my "X-Y-Z" on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Time for "The X-Y-Z of It."

I thought I had seen it all with extraneous airline fees, until today. Spirit Airlines, which boasts about liberating customers from high fares, has become the first U.S. airline to charge for baggage that you carry onto the plane with you. You heard me right. Not five or ten dollars, this airline will have the nerve to charge paying customers up to $45 to bring bags on board that need to be stored in the overhead bins.

Now, Spirit says, and I quote, "In addition to reducing fares even further, this will reduce the number of carry-on bags, all of which ultimately will improve customer service -- overall customer service experience," end quote.

I have a response to that, but CNN doesn't allow me to swear on air. This is an insult to passengers. When you search a website for an airfare and you start noticing that Spirit was $30 or $40 cheaper than it was, it really isn't. Spirit is just using sleight of hand to make their fares look cheaper, and they admitted it.

I fly every week. I get that some people carry way too much stuff onboard. They try to bring oversized bags and they take way too long to try to jam them into the overhead compartments. So Spirit wants to improve boarding and deplaning, enforce the rules beforehand. Make sure bags fit into that little gizmo that's the same size as the overhead bins.

And tell me again, why am I paying $45 for a bag I bought, packed, and carried myself? This is just dumb and I suspect the folks who work for Spirit agree. This is a perfect opportunity to let Spirit Airlines what you think. Post your comments on my Facebook page or better yet, tweet the airline @spiritairlines. That's it for me. I'm Ali Velshi, here with you every day 10:00 a.m. Pacific, 1:00 p.m. Eastern.

Time now for "RICK'S LIST" with Don Lemon sitting in for Rick.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Boy, I'm glad you got it out and you said it for me, as well. Thank you, Ali. We'll see you tomorrow.