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NATO Admits Mistake; Bart Stupak Resigning; Tiger at the Masters

Aired April 09, 2010 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Some of the headlines this hour. President Obama on his way home right now, left Prague a few hours ago. The President was there, of course, to sign that landmark new nuclear arms treat with Russia and also met with several other Eastern European leaders while there, including the Czech leader.

Israel's prime minister will not be coming to the U.S. next week as originally planned. President Obama hosting a major nuclear summit next week, but Benjamin Netanyahu now says he will not be there and it may be the latest wrinkle in strained relations between the U.S. and Israel. Israeli officials say Netanyahu was upset by plans by some delegates to attack Israel over their perceived nuclear program.

Also people in Kyrgyzstan's capital remembering those who died in this week's bloody uprising against the government. 75 people died in clashes with Army troops and the protests forced the president out of his palace, but he says he is still in charge. Opposition leaders say no. What they're saying yes, however to the U.S. military, allowing U.S. troops to stay on a key air base that's in the country.

We're still seeing the fallout of a health care reform legislation passing and it may have claimed its first casualty, just about 90 minutes ago we learned that Michigan Congressman Bart Stupak is retiring. You remember him. He was the Democrat heckled as baby killer during that impassioned debate in the House. So the resignation will ripple far from Capitol Hill to tea party rallies.

And our CNN senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash has been digging up the details here. And Dana, we're expecting more details from him in a little bit, but right now, again, a surprise to some. To others, maybe not.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on the phone): That's right, T.J., we're just rolling into Marquette, Michigan, which is where the congressman is going to hold his press conference in about two and a half hours to formally announce what we've been reporting that he is going to retire at end of his term and not run for a 10th term in Congress.

Since you and I spoke last hour I've been talking to a couple of sources close to him who talked to him about his decision. One said that when he called him up he said it's time to do something new. It's time to do something new. He feels that he's young enough that he can move on and that this whole episode with regard to health care wasn't just from the perspective that we saw, so grueling and intense and, you know, very anxiety-ridden for a lot of reasons for him that you laid out.

But also that he had worked since 1992 when he was first elected to get this done. He had been considering retiring in several cycles in the past and he was talked out of it by people who thought if he leaves this seat in this very rural, very conservative upper peninsula of Michigan that it can go to Republicans. One interesting tidbit that I just learned and that is - that the congressman apparently made this decision last weekend and guess where he was?

He was at the Michigan State Butler final four game in Indianapolis. He was there was with his wife and his son and was told by a source who talked to him that that's where he made his final decision that, you know what? I've had enough after 18 years and I'm not going to run. You mentioned that the timing was more than curious because the whole reason why I am here and our team of CNN is here is because the Tea Party Express had one rally that we attended last night in the western part of his sprawling district and they had four others planned to force him, as they put it, to his early retirement.

They are crowing like you would not believe, claiming credit for it as you can imagine. Stupak supporters say, you know, not too fast. This is something that he planned and he doesn't see the tea party as something that is any factor in anything and certainly in his decision, but they insist not so much of a factor in this district.

HOLMES: And remind us again, what time are we going to see that press conference that you say, Dana?

BASH: 12:30 Eastern and we hope to talk to the congressman here in Marquette afterwards and you know, hope to get obviously a little bit more about his decision and, look, politically you laid it out, T.J., the fact of the matter is he is an anti-abortion Democrat which, up until a few years ago, was very, very rare in the Democratic party.

But since he made a deal with the White House at the 11th hour for that executive order, making clear that from his perspective that there would be no taxpayer funding for abortions, he started to get it from the right, from anti-abortion groups in Michigan and nationally that had supported him even though he was a Democrat for years and years, they rescinded their endorsements and then also from the left.

Many people in his party saying you forced too tight abortion restrictions in this health care bill. And so that is absolutely a dynamic that he has been dealing with.

HOLMES: Well, Dana Bash, chasing it down for us today. We appreciate you hopping on the line and we will certainly be talking to you throughout the day. Thank you so much, and looking forward to hearing from Bart Stupak here in just a couple of hours as Dana said.

I want to turn back to West Virginia now. Funerals are going to be held today for four of the 25 miners killed Monday in that western Virginia coal mine. Meantime, there's been another setback in the attempts to find four miners who are still unaccounted for.

The teams reached one of two rescue chambers overnight and found it had not been deployed. Before they could check the only other chamber, however, smoke forced them from the mine. Workers are now trying to get a camera down there to determine if that second chamber has been used. Word on that expected some time around noon. So maybe the next couple of hours. The chambers hold enough oxygen for 15 miners to survive 96 hours.

West Virginia's governor says there is a "sliver of hope, the missing miners are in the one remaining chamber." You can only imagine how this week has been for many of the families, actually the entire West Virginia mining community.

Our Brooke Baldwin is there. She has been talking to these folks for the past several days and Brooke, we talked about that sliver of hope. They are going hold onto it until they know otherwise.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. I mean, just imagine, this is incredibly gut-wrenching for, as you mentioned, not just the families, T.J., but this entire community here in Naoma, West Virginia. In the governor's own words it has really been an emotional roller coaster. Imagine, they're all holed up in this building several miles away and very few people have access to these family members, their own loved ones, the governor, mining officials and Red Cross.

And so to paint a better picture as to what they're going through and what's happening over there, this is Jimmy Jadon (ph). Jimmy Guidone. Excuse me. Excuse me. And he's a volunteer out of North Carolina with Red Cross and because I haven't been able to get over there, none of us have, you were there this morning when they got the news that this third rescue attempt was a no go.

JIMMY GUIDONE, RED CROSS VOLUNTEER: Right.

BALDWIN: Incredibly deflating.

GUIDONE: It was. I mean, every day's tough, but this morning I think the families expected some good news, at least some positive news that real progress had been made and when the governor said that due to safety reasons he had to pull the crew out, you could kind of hear the air leave the room. But to their credit, you know, these good folks, they're understanding, they're maintaining their patience but it was a tough morning for them.

BALDWIN: Paint the picture for me. I mean, this is just one room. Are there cots? Is there food? Are they leaving?

GUIDONE: You know, it's a metal building and has some small rooms, one large room where the Red Cross is feeding these folks and giving them water and juice. We've got emotional counselors there, almost a one-to-one ratio to help these folks through that. We have another room where the Red Cross has set up cots and interesting, we have an emergency communications vehicle come as soon as this tragedy occurred.

We set up nine phones using internet technology and in the first 33 hours almost 4,000 calls were made. BALDWIN: Amazing.

GUIDONE: And that's how these folks are getting the words out to their friends and because there's no cell service here.

BALDWIN: Amazing. And also, I know you, as so many other Red Cross volunteers. You guys cover the worse of the worst. You were deployed to bad situations and how is this different, perhaps, from other disasters you've been to?

GUIDONE: You know, for me, it's more personal.

BALDWIN: Why?

GUIDONE: Because I've gotten to know these folks. You know, if you're in a hurricane or some place where there are thousands of folks, it's not a thousand folks here. This is a community. It's a small community. They all know each other. They know the Red Cross. They welcomed us into their lives. They tell us their stories and they lean to us, on our shoulders and it is more personal for me this time.

BALDWIN: Jimmy Guidone, I can see tears welling. I can see it's personal for you, and I thank you for standing here and telling me about that. It's personal here for a lot of people in Naoma, West Virginia and the neighboring counties. Again, T.J., as far as the next update on this rescue effort we're hearing the next scheduled update should be 3:00 Eastern this afternoon.

HOLMES: All right. Everybody waiting to see about those four unaccounted for. Brooke Baldwin, we appreciate you as always.

We're going to turn here in a moment back to Augusta. A big day there at the Masters. People getting a reminder of why that guy got famous in the first place, it's because of his golf that he is playing like he never left the course at all. People were wondering how he would respond after all these tabloid issues he had over the past several months. Well, he respond in a major way.

A lot of people have a bit of a conflict trying to cheer and trying to separate cheering for Tiger the golfer versus Tiger the man. We're going to get into that question here in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Distraction? What distraction? Tiger Woods played like he hadn't left the course at all. In fact, he played better. It was his best first round ever at the Masters.

CNN's Samantha Hayes is live there in Augusta, has been there all week. Samantha, hello to you. Everybody was waiting to see what would happen with Tiger. How he would be received and how he would play? Once he teed off it seemed like we got back to golf yesterday.

SAMANTHA HAYES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think that's the headline, T.J., yes. I think after all the reporting that's been done over the last few months about his personal life and the scandal that happened and the unsavory attention that has been paid to Tiger Woods, it did seem like it got back to golf yesterday, and I think a lot of people were tuning in. A lot of people here at the Masters came to see how is Tiger Woods going to do?

A lot of people maybe aren't even that interested in golf. So maybe one of the good things to come out of this is some of the amazing storylines that began to emerge yesterday once the golf began, and I'm not just talking about Tiger Woods. I'm talking about some of the other players who had great rounds. If you're here to see Tiger Woods you were probably impressed but then maybe you also, you know, began to love golf even more for some of the wonderful things that were happening with some of the seniors who were playing here yesterday.

HOLMES: I don't know if they would appreciate us calling them seniors, but yes, in fact, the two guys atop of the leader board, 50 and 60-year-old guys, Tom Watson and Fred Couple, being the 50-year- old there as well. Explain to people, we talked about some of these good scores and I don't want to get too inside baseball here, but a lot of high scores yesterday. There were a lot of people in those good numbers yesterday because, quite frankly, the PGA in Augusta made a decision to, quite frankly, make some of the pin positions, if you will, a little easier. So, yes, not taking anything away from their scores, but Augusta made a calculated decision here.

HAYES: That's right. They can change the golf course a little bit here and there and it can really dramatically, you know, kind of change the way the players are able to perform and it seemed as though yesterday and some of the players were talking about this, that the pins were in good placement and they were able to make some great plays and that's what we saw and it definitely benefited players who have won at the Masters before.

If you look at the leader board, many of the men at the top have won here before so they're familiar with the course although it's a very tricky course and they can change the pins today. They can mow the grass a little shorter and they can do a lot of things and they can throw off even the best player so that's what we'll be watching very closely today.

But you're right. We don't want to get too inside baseball, not to mix up our sports puns here. But concerning golf, you know, Freddy Couples, if you've been watching him, he's done great this year, but, of course, the Tiger headline has certainly, you know, kind of been covered so much that we haven't heard a lot about him. He was leading yesterday with six under par. He has a bad back. I don't know if you notice, but he plays, he doesn't wear golf shoes when he plays and he didn't even wear socks yesterday because of his back.

HOLMES: Yes.

HAYES: And so if he can continue to do well, this will be a tremendous story. You know, Phil Mickelson, I also want to mention him because he's at the top of the leader board, too. His wife is battling breast cancer right now. I think, you know, if the Tiger story hadn't been big, we would have heard a lot more about Phil Mickelson and what a wonderful performance he is giving under tremendous personal circumstances.

HOLMES: And yes, he actually took some time off, I believe last year, to tend to family that wasn't doing so well. So the last thing here, a lot of people were wondering about the reception. I was there yesterday as well and he did. Tiger got a great reception when he started off yesterday.

The only thing we saw, I guess, that was a little off, a plane circling overhead when he teed off with the message trailing behind it, we're showing it to our viewers right now. Tiger, did you mean bootyism? Of course, that was a play on Buddhism, his faith that he said he's getting back to. Besides that, did we see anything else? Did you see anything else all day yesterday? I certainly didn't.

HAYES: I didn't, T.J., and you know, I think that that was so shocking because as the days have gone on, I think that the, you know, the question as to whether there's going to be hecklers or somebody was going to, you know, maybe do something outrageous, I think that people began to feel like that couldn't happen because things are so controlled here at Augusta National.

But guess what? They can't control what goes on up there and that's where we saw that plane yesterday. Tiger was asked about this. He commented yesterday after play. Not only did he say he felt it was the best reception he'd ever had from the crowd, but he was asked specifically about whether he saw the messages on those planes and he said he didn't notice them. Who's to say what would have happened if he did, but he certainly seemed focused yesterday.

HOLMES: He sure was. It was like the Tiger of old zoned in once he gets out there on the course.

Samantha Hayes, we appreciate you as always. Thank you. We'll be talking to you throughout the day and probably this weekend as the Masters continues.

Now, another as you were just saying, he got a great reception there yesterday. People were clapping, besides the plane you didn't hear heckling or anything yesterday but there was something else worth talking about.

I want to bring in now Jeff Gardere, a clinical psychologist joining me from New York. Jeff, good to see you. Appreciate you coming in. And the other thing I noticed -

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you.

HOLMES: I was certainly then, he got a great reception. No hecklers and nobody yelling anything out at him, but all the conversations yesterday between husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends and women that were there, they were talking about how can I applaud and lift up and praise this great golfer, but at the same time I have this conflict as I'm praising him I can't separate that great golfer from this man who has admitted to doing some of these terrible things. What are people dealing with sitting around dinner tables out there on the course, trying to reconcile and trying to separate the two?

GARDERE: It's very difficult for them to separate the two. Certainly we know that Tiger is a great golfer. He is the golfer of the century at this point and he has his worshippers. He has his fans and those people will stick with him. Though at the same time they may be very disappointed in his past behaviors with the affairs and so on. The trump card here that Tiger has is that he has a documented illness now.

The mental health expert said that he had some sort of addiction to sex, sexual addiction. He may have had some sort of depression, anxiety, some complex mental health issues. So at the end of the day, I think people can say, look, what he did was wrong, but he is getting help. He is reconciling with his wife. And we have to root for the underdog especially if it's someone great like Tiger who has done so much for the sport.

HOLMES: Jeff, root for the underdog? Are you telling me he is about to become some kind of a sympathetic character now that he has - like you said, a clinical illness of some kind. He's about to become a sympathetic character?

GARDERE: I think so. I think when you look at this whole issue of him having a sexual addiction and that he is getting the help people may say "OK, yes, he did have a problem." You don't want to kick a guy when he's down. You don't want to kick a gal when she's down, and then you talked about this plane that had this very shocking message, this bootylicious thing, I think people really upset with that. They were shocked by that and it was something that was so horrible to happen to anyone. You don't want to see that happening to anyone, and I think that's when something like that happens, you do become an underdog.

HOLMES: All right. I want to clear up it was bootyism, not bootylicious.

GARDERE: Bootyism.

HOLMES: We know where you're getting out there, Jeff.

GARDERE: I'm thinking about Beyonce. Don't get me started.

HOLMES: All right. Jeff -

GARDERE: And I'm married. Uh-oh!

HOLMES: Does it seem like women, certainly maybe an obvious question, have a tougher time with this issue of forgiveness than men do? And that certainly seemed to be the theme out on the course yesterday. I actually heard a woman clearly state, right next to me, arguing with her husband, she said "I love him as a golfer." She literally said, "I hate him as a man." GARDERE: It's totally understandable that women are going to have a tougher time reconciling these issues with Tiger for the simple fact that his wife Elin was victimized. This wasn't just about, at this point, just a sexual addiction. It wasn't just about affairs. It was about sordid affairs, sex in the worst places and doing some of the worst things completely disrespecting his wife. So I totally understand how women would say I hate what Tiger did even if he has a confirmed mental illness.

HOLMES: All right. Jeff Gardere, we will see, but down the road maybe Tiger will become a sympathetic character more so like you say. We appreciate you jumping in and jumping in front of the camera for us.

GARDERE: All right.

HOLMES: Good to see you. We'll talk to you soon, I'm sure. All right.

GARDERE: Thank you.

HOLMES: Well, a lot of people out there are used to using some of that orange soap on your hands. You need to take note of this. Antibacterial cleansers may actually be doing more harm than good. We'll tell you about new concerns that are now being addressed. You don't want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Some of the stories making headlines today. Michigan Congressman Bart Stupak will announce his retirement today, becoming what could be the first casualty of the health reform overhaul. You will remember the nine-term Democrat heckled as baby killer during that impassioned debate on the House floor. The tea party organizers targeted Stupak and were holding rallies this week calling for his ouster.

Also an update on the U.S. Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people in Texas, Ft. Hood. Major Nadal Hassan was wounded by police during that November shooting rampage and has hospitalized ever since. He has now been moved to a jail in Bell County, Texas.

Figure skater Nancy Kerrigan's brother has pleaded not guilty to killing their father. He was in a Massachusetts courtroom last hour. Mark Kerrigan charged with manslaughter. Prosecutors say he grabbed his father around the neck in a drunken rage. The family released a statement supporting Mark Kerrigan saying "they're disappointed with the manslaughter charge."

The first space walk of the current shuttle mission. It's over for the day. Two astronauts on the space station's navigation and cooling systems during their six and a half hours outside, they'll make two more space walks to finish the job. NASA considering keeping "Discovery" up an extra day because of problems with the shuttle antenna.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, the Food and Drug Administration says some antibacterial products are no more effective than plain old soap and water. Could these products also, however, pose a risk to your health?

Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here with that. We're talking about a disinfectant here, Elizabeth, that's been in stuff for ages, I'm told. So what prompted the FDA to look at it now?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they were prompted partly by environmentalists who said, look in animal studies this shows that this ingredient alters how the body regulates hormones and the FDA agrees, but the FDA is saying just because an ingredient in antibacterial products does something that's not so great in animals, what does it mean for you and me? We're not lab rats and the bottom line is that it is not clear whether this ingredient called triclosan is bad for human beings.

So let's take a sort of a step back here. Again, the concerns are according to the FDA, that this ingredient may alter the way our body regulates hormones and also that bacteria are getting smart and are learning how to resist it so it may be contributing to anti- bacterial resistance.

Now we asked the folks at the Soap and Detergent Association what they thought of all these concerns and here's what they had to say. They say "Antibacterial ingredients like triclosan have a long track record of human and environmental safety." T.J..

HOLMES: There actually is a Soap and Detergent Association?

COHEN: There is. Yes.

HOLMES: I had no idea. It sound like I heard the bottom line in there from you, a moment ago is we just don't know. Can we keep using this stuff or not?

COHEN: Right. The bottom line is that we just don't know and that the FDA is continuing to review this. So I'm just going to give you sort of the Elizabeth bottom line and the bottom line here for me is that, look, if all of this information makes you nervous and you don't want to come in contact with this chemical, it's your choice.

So what you want to do is when you look at a product and it can be toothpaste or soap, look for this, triclosan, that is the chemical that's being studied by the FDA. So again, it's up to you. Look at the label. If you don't want it, don't buy it. There are plenty of products that don't have it.

HOLMES: All right. Can I just go with soap and water? Is that OK?

COHEN: Absolutely. You have my permission. The FDA even says there's no science that says that anti-bacterial products are better than just plain old soap and water. Just wash your hands with plain old soap and water.

HOLMES: So they're just convenient. People like the little bottles and what not. You can carry them around with you. They're just convenient to carry around these -

COHEN: Now, that's different. That's hand purifier -

HOLMES: So the stuff's not in there?

COHEN: Right. And triclosan is not in the purifiers we looked at. We're talking about soaps and toothpaste and things like that.

HOLMES: Oh, my goodness. All right. I thought we were dealing with those little things.

COHEN: It gets confusing. No, no, we're talking about soaps - like things that actually suds up from, you know, from what I can see.

HOLMES: Suds up. That's a good way to put it. Plain is put soap and water, you'll be fine. Elizabeth, thank you as always.

COHEN: Thanks.

HOLMES: Thanks for keeping me straight.

Well, supporters say the health care reform law good for America. It might not be so good for a nine-term Democrat from Michigan. We're going to dig a little deeper on this developing news we're getting out of D.C. and out of Michigan today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Live in the CNN NEWSROOM, T.J. Holmes.

HOLMES: Health care reform is now law of the land -- for some, still a huge liability. Just a couple of hours ago we learned one congressman who cast a critical vote for the overhaul now resigning, not going to seek a tenth term. Michigan Democrat Bart Stupak.. He faced blistering criticism from conservatives and was the target of TEA Party rallies yesterday and again today. You'll remember he was heckled as "baby killer" during the impassioned debates in the House. Now saying he will not seek another term.

The resignation will be a rallying cry for some and a new concern for others. In particular, Democrats are already facing an uphill battle to keep control of Congress.

CNN political editor Mark Preston joining us once again. We are going to see some people and including the TEA Party will point to this and say "See? This is a direct result of what we are doing," and they'll say they got this guy to essentially cow to them.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Dana Bash is reporting out of Michigan right now. She's on the ground reporting that the TEA Party folks are saying that their anti-Stupak rallies are turning into victory rallies. They're not going to be the only one, T.J. As we talked about last hour when the news was breaking, the fact of the matter is, you will have liberal groups as well who were upset at Stupak as well, citing victory for his decision to step down.

HOLMES: Mark, we were keeping an eye on this, and I'm glad we have you here. We can bring you in on this. This point, we talked about it not long ago, but John Paul Stephens, the oldest serving justice, about to be 90 years old in a week and a half, announcing that he, in fact, is going to step down from the Court by this summer. We're showing video of him here, but again, he's got a birthday coming, he'll be 90 years old coming up on April 20th. He's been part of the court since April -- excuse me, since December of 1975.

We had talked about since last weekend, Mark, that in fact, he had given a couple of interviews talking about that he might want to step down or when he might do it and that got everyone abuzz about what happened. But John Paul Stephens -- we're just getting this news -- saying he will step down from the Court later this summer.

So mark, here we go. The president, President Obama is going to get another shot at making his stamp on the court. He has one, Sotomayor. Of course, we know, was just a part of the Court not long ago. And here's another, another chance and we talked about. As contentious as things have been in D.C., there is nothing that gives Democrats and Republicans and really all sides beyond that to knock heads like a confirmation fight for a Supreme Court justice.

PRESTON: That is absolutely true, T.J., and you know, it allows President Obama to put his imprint on the Supreme Court early on in his presidency.

We do not expect the makeup of the Court to change. There are five justices that are considered conservative; four of them are considered liberal. Of course, this justice who is stepping down, Justice Stephens, is considered in the liberal side of things. So, we won't see the constitution of the court actually change, but it does give President Obama an opportunity to put somebody on the court that he feels should be there.

However, what would normally be a quiet summer Washington, D.C. -- we weren't expecting a whole lot done legislatively because it's a campaign year -- you will have the Senate in now. Certainly the Senate Judiciary Committee really going over this nomination process figuring out who will be the next Supreme Court justice.

HOLMES: Again, to our viewers, not a big surprise in some regard, since we saw not too long ago, gave a couple of interviews to a couple of newspapers in which he said he planned on stepping down from the Court before President Obama's first term was done. So sure, expect it some time in the next couple of years. But here we are getting the news already to the viewers, John Paul Stevens, a man about to turn 90 years old, been on the court since 1975, a strong liberal on that court, he is considered. And he is announcing he will step down this summer.

And Mark, like you said, it is not going to be a quiet summer now. How is this going to change the dynamic of the midterm elections when we had so many other things that seemingly were going to be talked about and literally thought about? Democrats trying to hold on to as many seats as possible after the health care reform, but now you throw this into the mix.

PRESTON: Yes, and what this is going do is it's really going to energize both ends of the political spectrum. The real conservative end for the Republicans and the real liberal end for Democrats. And what we'll see is we'll see these interest groups out raising money. We'll see television ads running all across the country. And the fact is what they'll try to do with these ads is say they're influencing the debate whether President Obama should choose someone more centrist, maybe a littlemore conservative or more liberal.

But in fact, what they're doing is they're really trying to influence the midterm election. So, you'll hear a lot from conservatives and from Republican-aligned groups saying look, President Obama will put another liberal on the court. We need to take back Congress. On the other end, what you will hear is the more liberal groups say, this is our time right now to really solidify our control of Congress and the fact of the matter is, we control Congress now. This is what we'll hear the liberals say. We control Congress now, we cannot concede it at this very important time in history.

HOLMES: All right, Mark, don't go anywhere. Stay with us here, to our viewers, we are just getting word. John Paul Stevens, the justice is about to turn 90 here in a week and a half or so, saying he will step down from the court this summer. That will set up a confirmation fight. Once again, another one that President Obama will go through and a chance to make his mark on the court.

We're bringing in our Jeffrey Toobin, who knows this Court inside and out. It's what he does. It's what he writes books about.

Jeffrey, good to have you jump on. Let me just get your initial reaction. Not a surprise. He said he'll do this before the end of President Obama's first term, but we're getting it now.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): It is not really a surprise, T.J. I interviewed him all through the spring, but the last time I spoke to him was March 8th, and he said that he would make a decision within a month. He missed by a day. It's April 9th, but -- but, you know, I think it was clear by the fact that he was giving interview, by the fact that he was taking a sort of a valedictory tour -- around his long tenure on the Court. So, it's not a surprise that he quit. But this is a big, big opportunity for President Obama.

HOLMES: You say a big opportunity. You say a big opportunity to put his stamp, if you will, on that Court with now two justices he's going to be able to put on the Court. What kind of stamp are we talking about the president making?

TOOBIN: Well, I think much like Justice Sotomayor, his first appointment, he will seek to put a moderate Democrat on the court. I think a let of liberals hope he picks some liberal firebrand, but I don't think President Obama is a liberal firebrand. I think if you look at Professor Obama's history - Obama, of course, taught law at the University of Chicago Law School. He is not a flaming liberal on legal issues. I think he will pick someone on the moderate left of the Democratic party -- and, because that's who he is and that's what he believes in.

HOLMES: You talked about someone on the moderate left, maybe talking about some of the thoughts and ideology of some of these possible justices, but what about making another history-making pick?

TOOBIN: Well, I think -- I'm not sure what history there is to be made. Fortunately, the Supreme Court is a more diverse place than it has been. Of course, Sonia Sotomayor is the first Hispanic justice. There is a possibility, of course, that there could be the first Asian-American justice.

But I expect there may well be another woman on the court. Certainly the leading candidate at the moment appears to be Elena Kagan, who is the solicitor general of the United States and the former dean of Harvard Law School. She would be the first non-judge on the court in quite some time if she's confirmed. That's history- making in a way. It's a return to the older history of the court. But there really are lots of options for the president.

HOLMES: And Jeffrey and Mark Preston are standing by with us. To our viewers, just getting word, John Paul Stevens, as Jeffrey Toobin said, not a surprise in a lot of ways, as the man is about to be 90 years old and had been hinting that he was going to step down certainly before the president's first term. But at this point, we didn't know wield get the news now, but we're getting it right now.

Jeffrey, you talked about several things and possibilities for the president. Give our viewers an idea. They keep lists, if you will. There's not necessarily a really long list of possibilities, or is there a long list, if you will, when it's time to start picking a justice? You're not necessarily starting from scratch.

TOOBIN: One of the things every president-elect does -- not president, but president-elect does -- is start to make this list. Because it is one of the great perks of being president of the United States because, of course, presidents only get to serve for four or eight years. For Supreme Court justices, they serve for decades.

John Paul Stevens is the fourth-longest tenured justice in the history of the Court. He was appointed by President Ford in 1975, will have served for 35 years. So it is not a -- it is not something to be taken lightly, and presidents treasure this opportunity. Bill Clinton did it. George W. Bush did it. And Barack Obama did it. They started making lists as soon as they won the election.

HOLMES: All right. I told Mark Preston not to go away. We'll see if he is still with me. Mark, I believe you are still with me and listening in here.

We talked about what kind of a fight this is going to be and certainly a political one, as always. But give people an idea of just how many sides of every issue come out of the woodworks and get involved in a Supreme Court -- not just the confirmation battle, but actually pre-confirmation, before the announcement is made, trying to influence the president to go one way or another.

PRESTON: Sure. There are interest groups all throughout Washington, D.C., all throughout the country. And Jeffrey probably knows the folks running the organizations. The fact is, what political organizations see Supreme Court vacancies, they see dollar signs. They see a way to raise money and they see a way to get their political base activated.

And certainly, we will see that all throughout the summer, T.J., going into November. It's not like the 2010 midterm elections weren't already going to be epic in many ways, because it will be seen as a yardstick on President Obama's presidency. But look. Now we have a Supreme Court vacancy to really pivot off of, and for these real liberal interest groups and these real conservative interest groups, to try raise money, to run TV ads and really, for them, it's about trying to take back Congress.

HOLMES: All right. Our Jeffrey Toobin - OK, Jeffrey is still on the line with us as well talking about John Paul Stevens. Soon to be a 90-year-old member of the liberal wing of the Supreme Court, saying he's going to step down by the summer.

Jeffrey, we know these -- it seems like there never really is. And some people saw it in some ways, maybe Sonia Sotomayor. There were only so many things you could give her a hard time about. These are always tough fights. And they went out the best they could, but she was confirmed.

Is there anyone else out there - you talked about his short list, the president's -- is there a safe pick, if you will?

TOOBIN: I think it's important to remember that even though there was some controversy here or there about Sonia Sotomayor, was there never any real doubt she was going to be confirmed. And I think it is likely that anyone President Obama picks will be confirmed.

It has been -- not since the 1960s has a president whose party controlled the United States Senate lost a nomination to the Supreme Court on a vote. I mean, it is very hard to filibuster a Supreme Court nomination. There are 59 Democrats in the United States Senate. That is a big advantage going in.

If you look at the kind of people who have appeared on the list, whether they are Elena Kagan, whom I mentioned, the solicitor general. Merrick Garland, who's a judge on the D.C. circuit court of appeals. Kat Somstein (ph), who was an official in the Office of Management and Budget. Diane Wood, a on the seventh circuit in Chicago. These are all choices who are likely to get confirmed.

Will there be controversy? Of course. Will there be questions and good days and bad days for the nominee? Of course. But in the big picture, when your party has 59 seats, it's pretty hard to lose a Supreme Court nomination. HOLMES: All right. Stay with me here, Jeffrey. I'm just printing out and just seeing the letter from Justice John Paul Stevens that he wrote to the president. I will read it to our viewers now and it says, "Dear Mr. President, having concluded it would be in the best interest of the Court to have my successor appointed and confirmed well in advance of the commencement of the Court's next term, I shall retire from regular, active service as an associate justice, effective the next day after the Court rises for the summer recess this year. Most respectfully yours, John Paul Stevens."

Let me bring in John King, I believe, who is up and on the line with me now. There he is. I can see his face.

John King, hello to you. Here we go. Just how excited do presidents get? I don't want to make it sound like they're so giddy, if you will, but still presidents really relish this opportunity to put somebody on that court?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. This is the biggest legacy any president can get. Here you have a president -- now, politically controversial who thinks he has a new legacy item in the new health care law. Well, guess what? As Jeff was just noting and Mark was noting, now he gets his second selection to the Supreme Court. Not only does every president want to do this, T.J., but temember this president's background. He was a law professor earlier in his days. In Harvard Law School, he studied and wrote and was in lecture series about this very question. What does a president do? How does the president face these big picks?

He will do this in a remarkably testy, contentious political environment. Jeff is dead right about the math. His party has 59 votes in the Senate. There are a number of Republicans who are on record saying you don't filibuster something like a Supreme Court nomination unless there's some extreme problem with the candidate's background. And we know the people who on the short list -- Jeff just talked about them the last time through.

So, the question is does the president pick a polarizing liberal in this environment and pick a fight in an election year? Some people will urge him to do that, to rally the Democratic base. Or does he pick a centrist on the bench, who has been confirmed several times by the Senate to district judge and appeals court judge, and then just have a dust-up and an ideological debate, but not so much of a contentious fight? It is a big question for the president and a remarkable challenge, particularly given the midterm political climate.

HOLMES: Well, John, that was going to be my next question. You hit on it there. Does this change the game a bit? Will he have to go back and maybe reconsider and take into account where we are with this deep partisan divide, and maybe go with somebody he wouldn't have gone with had we not been in this situation, certainly with the health care reform debate, certainly with midterms coming up.

STEVENS: This is why, T.J., in our business, you wish you being cloak yourself and be invisible and be in the room. Because there will be legal advisers who come and say "Mr. President, here's the candidate. This person has been on the federal bench, whether it's Justice Garland or Judge Wood -- Justice Wood -- come in and say, "This person's been on the bench for 20 years. Here's their record. They agree with you on most of the big issues. This is a good, qualified candidate who will not have a huge political battle."

And there will be others who come in, political advisors, who will say, "Mr. President, we need to stoke this debate. Our bases is a bit demoralized right now. Let's pick somebody who will get confirmed, but maybe we want this fight." There will be some people in the president's inner circle who will say a decent fight over a qualified nominee is a good thing for the president, not a bad thing.

So, the president will have to sort all of this out. This is where we will see Barack Obama the politician maybe in a bit of a tug of war with Barack Obama the law professor and the Harvard Law School graduate. This will be a fascinating decision for the president.

He will have a list of qualified nominees. He will have legal advice, but he will also have political advice. And T.J., you can't take this out of this. We're in the middle of a highly contentious midterm election year, and the president has to make a decision how much of the fight do you want.

HOLMES: It will be a part of the equation. John King, Jeffrey Toobin on the line, as well. Mark Preston standing by. I'll have all three of you stand by because we're going to take a quick break. A reminder to our viewers. A lot to break down here. We are hearing that this will be another game changer going into the summer in this already heated, political climate.

Now, Justice John Paul Stevens said he will step down this summer. So, we are getting geared up for another contentious, likely partisan fight in Washington with a possible appointment and then a confirmation hearing for a new justice. The second one for this new president, still-new president, President Obama.

We are covering all angles of this story. I'm back with my guys right after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: To our viewers. A breaking story. We were getting information a short time ago, as we've been covering here. John Paul Stevens saying he will step down from the Supreme Court by this summer, so that means President Obama will get a chance to put someone else on the Supreme Court.

John Paul Stevens, known to be part of the liberal left of that court. Not probably going to change the balance too much once President Obama makes another select, but still, significant always when a president has a chance to put someone else on the Supreme Court.

I've been standing by here and talking to Mark Preston, our John King, as well, and Jeffrey Toobin on the line. All these guys will be sticking around, I do believe through the top of the hour.

But right now I have Toobin on the line. Toobin, I want to get one more question in to you, if I can. We always seemingly, immediately he go to talking about the politics of it, to changing the dynamics of the court.

Give us a second here, if you will, and take us back and remind us of just who John Paul Stevens is, what he's about, and really what his career on the Supreme Court has been.

TOOBIN: Well, I think it is good to pay some attention to poor John Paul Stevens today and -- just look behind a little as well as look ahead.

John Paul Stevens is a Chicagoan. He came from a wealthy family in Chicago. His parents owned a very famous hotel for a time in Chicago, the Hotel Stevens. It's now a Hilton. He was a successful lawyer in private practice, and then made -- became a judge on the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals in 1970, appointed by Richard Nixon. Appointed by Gerald Ford to the Supreme Court of the United States in 1975. Confirmed by 98 to nothing, a reminder that Supreme Court nominations have not historically always been very controversial.

He -- one of the great questions about John Paul Stevens' tenure is whether the Court moved to the right or he moved to the left, because when he joined the court in the '70s, he was in the center right of the court. And now he is on the left of the court and is, in fact, the leader of the liberals.

He was the -- he wrote the opinions that overturned the Bush administration's treatment of the detainees in Guantanamo Bay. He was the lead dissenter in Bush v. Gore. He supported abortion rights. He supported affirmative action. Those are the issues, the hot-button issues that are always at the heart of the Supreme Court confirmation hearing, and that's what we'll start to hear about soon.

HOLMES: Well, you know, like we say, we always immediately go toward the fight that's coming ahead. And it's important to take some time and look back. And we certainly will do so at the service, the 34 years of service on the Court of Justice John Paul Stevens.

John king, Mark Preston, Jeffrey Toobin, I appreciate you all sticking here and talking about this with me, but I know you aren't going far. Quick break. We'll get over to Tony Harris to continue the CNN NEWSROOM in just a moment. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, thank you for allowing me to bring you the news for the past couple of hours, and the breaking news that Tony Harris now will continue in the NEWSROOM with --

Tony, big news, big story, big day.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Quite a morning.

HOLMES: What a morning.

HARRIS: Quite a morning. T.J., great job on the breaking news. We'll pick it up from here. Have a great day, my friend.