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Poland in Mourning; Schools Cheating for Students; Confederate Pride or Prejudice?
Aired April 10, 2010 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Along with the tears and mourning in Poland tonight, questions about a pilot's decision that took the lives of many in the Polish government including the president.
The Civil War and the Confederacy making a sudden comeback this week, fueled by a state proclamation to honor them. While many are outraged, especially African-Americans, one black Civil War reenactor tells me why he's standing up for his Confederate pride.
And we'll take you to a floating party so big it could soon make spring break obsolete, thanks to Facebook. Why the cops want to shut it down tonight.
Good evening, everyone.
Poland today lost a big part of its government in one terrible event. President Lech Kaczynski, his wife and nearly 100 top Polish officials, including senior military leaders, died in a plane crash in western Russia.
Terrorism does not appear to be a factor in today's crash, but weather does. Russian and Polish authorities say the Polish military plane took off from Warsaw and crashed while approaching the airport in Smolensk, Russia in heavy fog. The pilot apparently ignored the warning not to land.
The tragedy stunned the Polish community in the U.S., and Polish ambassador, the one in Washington, said President Lech Kaczynski embodied the spirit of Polish independence in the post-Soviet world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT KUPIECKI, POLISH AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: President Kaczynski represented the generation of freedom, the freedom connected permanently with the legacy of solidarity movement, which in 1989 brought about freedom, democracy and prosperity to Poland.
So the greatest legacy of late President Kaczynski is the one of freedom and is the one of creating foundations for enormous political, economic success and prosperity in Poland.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: News of the crash stunned the nation of Poland. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen is in the middle of an impromptu vigil in Warsaw. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Crying out their grief in songs, lighting candles, laying flowers, publicly displaying their sorrow. Up to 100,000 people gathered in central Warsaw to mourn their president, his wife and much of the country's political leadership killed in the crash.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Shock. I can't tell you what I'm feeling. Just shock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that this is the place that all Poles should be today, not just for the president but his wife and many other important people who have died.
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: I don't think there will be a better president than Mr. Kaczynski.
PLEITGEN: It was Saturday morning when Poles learned their president was killed when his plane crashed near Smolensk in western Russia. Lech Kaczynski and Polish political and military leaders were on their way to a ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the Katyn Massacre. Many were waiting in Katyn, but instead of commemorating some 22,000 Polish officers killed by the Soviet Army in World War II, they prayed for their president.
Poland's Prime Minister Donald Tusk visited the crash site with his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin. Tusk clearly taken aback by the scene.
DONALD TUSK, POLISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): For many of us they were friends and acquaintances. The biggest tragedy is for the families of the people who were killed.
I wanted to say in the name of all the Polish people to pass the words of condolences to the family of the Polish president, to his daughter, to his mother, to his brother and to all the families of all the victims.
PLEITGEN: Political leaders from around the world offered their condolences.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think at a time like this, we also remember a family in mourning, large numbers of people who have died and a whole country that will be shocked and saddened by what has happened. I met President Kaczynski in a few occasions. I'd talked with him recently. And I think every leader around the world will be sending their sympathies to the people of Poland.
PLEITGEN: The speaker of Poland's parliament will take on the duties of the president until elections are held in about two months. He has already ordered a week of mourning.
(on camera): In times of such hardship and in the face of such national disaster that this nation comes together and sets aside the political differences that otherwise so divide the society. Frederik Pleitgen, CNN, Warsaw, Poland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: In Washington, D.C., President Obama issued this statement
"President Kaczynski was a distinguished statesman who played a key role in the solidarity movement. And he was widely admired in the United States as a leader dedicated to advancing freedom and human dignity."
People showed up all day at the Polish Embassy in Washington to pay their respects. That's where we find CNN's Sandra Endo.
Sandra?
SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, here in front of the Polish Embassy, we've seen a stream of people come all day long to pay their respects. They've been leaving candles, notes, flowers, all in memory of their late president and the tragedy of this fatal crash. The embassy has also opened its doors to the public today and all through the week so that people can express their sympathies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came out because my family is from Poland. My grandfather fought in World War II, and during the war they had to leave Poland. I've been to Poland studying there and I came out just because to pay respect. It was a tragedy, what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENDO: Here inside the embassy, a very somber mood. People are waiting in line, waiting to express their grief and sorrow by writing messages in a condolence book, and this is the first day of an official week of mourning -- Don.
LEMON: All right, Sandra. Thank you very much for that.
And just a few hours ago, we got a first hint who the Republicans may like for president in 2012. It's not scientific, just a straw poll from the Southern Republic Leadership Conference down in New Orleans.
And get this. The winner won by just one vote -- Mitt Romney. He wasn't at the event, got 439 votes. Ron Paul was second with 438. Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich tied for third. And again noting that there's nothing scientific about it and no guarantee that these folks will even run for president. Just a little gauge of how Republicans are thinking.
The GOP chairman spoke to the conference today and this comes after a recent scandal over donor money spent at a sex-themed nightclub in Hollywood. Michael Steele took responsibility and admitted he has made mistakes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: Please, everyone. But you can certainly make them all mad at you at the same time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Some Republicans are standing by Steele, while others have called for his resignation.
You can bet a lot of prayers will be said tomorrow for miners and their families in West Virginia. Searchers found the bodies of four missing miners overnight. A total of 29 people were killed at the Upper Big Ranch mine, making it the worst U.S. mining disaster in 40 years.
The bishop of the diocese of Wheeling and Charleston will devote tomorrow's homily to the sanctity of life as it relates to the mining industry.
President Obama has sent condolences to the families and promises a thorough investigation. Federal investigators will be in the area on Monday.
Standardized test scores, a little too high at some schools in Georgia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's sort of like having a blizzard in Ft. Lauderdale in the middle of July. You know, in theory, it could happen. It's just so incredibly unlikely that you really need a substantial explanation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There are allegations of cheating, not by students but by school officials.
And are they honoring their Southern heritage or just replaying one of the ugliest times in American history? Civil War reenactors joining us to talk about the uproar over Confederate history month.
Plus, no more games at Texas Stadium. In a few hours, it will be a pile of rubble. Well, meet the young man who is pushing the demolition button.
Also, we want you to be part of the conversation tonight. Make sure you log on to the social media site. We'll read some of your questions on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Today, teachers unions from across the country protested in the nation's capital. They're not fans of the Obama administration's "Race to the Top" program in which schools compete for funding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHAN SAUNDERS, D.C. TEACHERS UNION OFFICIAL: I'm here because I've got a major problem with what's going on in public education. I mean, to defend public education so that it's accessible to young people of the future. The problem that we have in Washington, D.C. is symbolic of what's going on all around the country -- a massive effort to privatize, a massive effort to get away from education.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNN is stepping into the classroom for a focus on education this week. One of the major criticisms we'll be talking about -- too much focus on standardized tests. Students in Georgia are taking those tests over the next few weeks and they're under a lot of scrutiny after allegations that some schools fudged the numbers in the past.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice over): Mikole Harden is worried.
(on camera): Were you the only parent concerned about this?
MIKOLE HARDEN, PARENT: No, by all means.
LEMON (voice over): Someone may have changed the answers on the standardized test at his daughter's school last year.
(on camera): So you have concerns?
HARDEN: Of course, I have concerns like any other parents. I have concerns. I hope that there's no cheating. And if it is cheating, there need to be a punishment for it.
LEMON (voice over): And he's not alone. The state of Georgia is investigating 10 percent of its elementary and middle schools, 191 of them, because of moderate to severe concern over test results in 2009.
(on camera): When the answer sheets like this were scored, the computer scanners could tell when the bubbles were erased and the answers changed.
(voice over): Kathleen Mathers heads the state audit.
KATHLEEN MATHERS, GEORGIA GOV.'S OFFICE OF STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT: It's not just that someone had changed a bunch of the answers. It was that when they changed answers, they got the answer right as a result of that change.
LEMON (voice over): Classes with an unusually high number of these changes were flagged.
MATHERS: It's sort of like having a blizzard in Ft. Lauderdale in the middle of July. You know, in theory it could happen. It's just so incredibly unlikely that you really need a substantial explanation.
LEMON: Usually, when we talk about cheating, the focus is on kids. In Georgia, the finger is being pointed at teachers and administrators.
CNN obtained affidavits in the case of two administrators at an elementary school in DeKalb County accused of tampering with tests in 2008. Former principal James Berry admitted they went into an office and began to erase answer sheets and change answers. Dorothea Alexander, the assistant principal, says she read the answers to Berry. "He needed for 26 students to pass for us to make AYP."
AYP is Adequate Yearly Progress, an improvement standard set by the federal No Child Left Behind Act. Schools that repeatedly failed to meet AYP faced sanctions.
Berry was charged with public records fraud, paid a fine and is on probation. Alexander was transferred and completed community service.
MATHERS: We have done some work with our monitors.
LEMON: Today, Mathers is working with the state school board to keep it from happening again.
MATHERS: As a former teacher, I would say we're better than that.
LEMON: Georgia students are now taking the 2010 CRCT tests under new guidelines. And watching over the whole process -- state test monitors aimed at making sure these tests can be trusted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And standardized testing is just one of the topics that's sure to come up next weekend in our special "FIXING AMERICA'S SCHOOLS." It will be a town hall meeting on CNN with parents, students and teachers from across the U.S., plus Education Secretary Arne Duncan.
If you have questions for me, make sure you tweet them or send them to Facebook and it's donlemoncnn -- @donlemoncnn and look for Fixing America's Schools. Next Saturday, 7:00 p.m. Eastern and next Sunday at 6:00 p.m. Eastern as well.
You don't see this every day -- an African-American defending the Confederacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a great thing that the governor of Virginia did when he declared Confederate History Month because now we have the opportunity to tell the Southern side which is never told.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You will hear why he stands behind the controversial Confederate History Month.
And terrifying moments at a shopping mall in Oklahoma. Gunfire erupts inside and shoppers have to run for cover.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Listen up. A huge controversy arising out of Virginia this week over a war that ended 145 years ago. Governor Bob McDonnell declared April Confederate History Month, but left out any mention of slavery in his proclamation.
Civil rights groups blasted him for it, accusing him of twisting history. President Obama called it an unacceptable omission. And it really fired up CNN's political analyst Roland Martin. It is "What Matters" tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: These were American terrorists. These were individuals who were committing a sin against humanity who wanted to keep the system of oppression, degradation and absolute denial of opportunities for African-Americans.
We're celebrating people and had they won, Don, you and I would not be sitting here right now. You and I would be in the fields right now as property, as opposed to being free individuals. And so that's like somebody saying, oh, we're going to celebrate the Nazi soldiers by saying, well, they were only doing their job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. That was CNN's Roland Martin. So, Confederate History Month is going on in a number of Southern states and it is prime time for reenactors who want to bring the battlefield back to life.
We've got a whole panel of Johnny Rebs joining us right now. Tim and Lisa Knight are here with me in Atlanta, and H.K. Edgerton, he is live in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Good to see all of you. Don't be nervous. We're just talking. People want to hear from all of you. So thank you very much.
What do you guys think about the controversy that's going on with the governor and with the proclamation?
TIM KNIGHT, CONFEDERATE REENACTOR: As far as the State of Georgia is concerned, the proclamation here is to celebrate the Confederate heritage, you know, month. And that's representing everybody who was a part of it, both, you know, whites, African- Americans, Hispanics, Indians. It's not just to represent one particular culture.
I don't understand as far as Virginia's portion of it, about leaving out slavery, but as far as the State of Georgia is concerned, it represents everybody who participated during that event. LEMON: Do you feel the same way, Lisa?
LISA KNIGHT, CONFEDERATE REENACTOR: I understand that it's a very hot button topic. It is something that strikes a nerve with many people.
But it's not something that should be demonized or that should be excluded as part of our history because it is very much a part of our history. And it's the only time where we thought internally, where had strive at that time. I think that if we're not careful and don't honor that and don't think through that and we shuffle it under the rug, then we're neglecting part of our American heritage.
LEMON: As a Southerner, believe me, I get Southern pride, but do you understand what the Civil War means to -- especially African- Americans who were, you know, slaves during that time, and for them and for the people in the North and I guess in the South, that's what the war was about -- to end slavery and the South did not want to end that. Do you get that?
T. KNIGHT: I understand that part but there's a lot of things that our history books and they leave out. It's not just strictly over the issue of just slavery. 93,000 African-Americans participated on the side of the Confederacy. You know, they don't bring that up.
LEMON: Those people participated but they were not necessarily willing participants. And by the time African-Americans could join the Confederacy, join the Army, it was too late, it was 1865. So, many didn't -- they weren't considered enough of a person to even join the Army, to be allowed to join the Army and fight in the war.
T. KNIGHT: Well, it's in between 10,000 to 15,000 actually carried arms.
LEMON: Let's bring in -- let's bring in H.K. Edgerton now. Again, he is in Charlotte, North Carolina.
H.K., our topic -- you would know about this because this is what you do. What do you say to this -- about African-Americans especially the slavery part of it? Because you can understand, a lot of people don't like this celebration because to them it means slavery. They feel that they would be slaves had the South won.
H.K. EDGERTON, CONFEDERATE REENACTOR: Well, let's back up some of this. First of all, I'd like to talk about, you know, some of the things that Mr. Martin talked about. You know, he called the honorable people in the South, some of the most honorable people in this country, American terrorists, and said that if the South had won the war, we would be in the fields now.
That's just poppycock and just fans on the feelings of people who just want to say slavery in all dialogue. It is a great thing that the governor of Virginia did when he declared Confederate History Month because now we have the opportunity to tell the Southern side which is never told with the advent of the Industrial Revolution. And you know, I'm very surprised about -- in Virginia because in Virginia, up until the days of the war, those men and the legislature of Virginia were working hard to try to figure out a way to real emancipation of the slaves. They knew -- white folks in the South knew that a man was not free unless he had ability to take care of himself, unless he had land, a home for shelter and some money and possibly some slaves of his own.
You know, I resent the fact that this man like -- I don't know whether Mr. Martin is from the North or where he is from, but it's the same virtuosity that these folks give to the North that virtuosity doesn't belong in the North.
LEMON: Listen, I know Roland. I believe Roland is from the South, and I don't want you to take it too literally. I think what Roland meant was, had the South won, that African-Americans would not be in the same position that they are now, at least when it comes to -- hang on, let me finish, I'll let you talk, I'll give you time -- at least when it comes to civil rights.
Because that's what the Civil War was about. The South, let's just be honest, did not want slavery to end and that was their main focus for the Civil War. And that's what secession came about. They wanted to secede, to secede from the Union if slavery was abolished. That's what the Civil War was about.
EDGERTON: No, sir. I absolutely, totally disagree with you because, first of all, let's just pick some fast facts, some real evidence.
LEMON: No, listen.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I let you talk for a long time, Mr. Edgerton. I'm going to give you your chance.
Am I to believe that history books, that what I've read about, what the history books say, what every other historian says, my own ears and my own eyes, or am I to believe what you say and what Civil War reenactors say?
EDGERTON: Well, let's just go to that. Let's just talk about that. Let's talk about the establishment of the public school system in 1865 and how the Northern school teachers came here to demonize and separate black and white folks in the South.
More importantly, let's talk about Abraham Lincoln and his (INAUDIBLE) memory. If the Southern -- if the Southern men wanted to maintain economic institution of slavery, they would have went along with Lincoln and supported the (INAUDIBLE). And basically, what Lincoln said is that if the South would agree to the tax increases that the North was proposing, that Congress would never have ability to end the economic institution of slavery.
LEMON: OK. Right there... (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on one second. No, no, no. I'm not cutting you off because I need to get a point in. I'm cutting you off because I need to take a break and then we'll come back and we'll discuss more. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back everyone to our conversation. Virginia's governor opened up some old wounds by declaring April Confederate History Month and leaving slavery out of the equation.
We have been talking with a panel of three Civil War reenactors, Tim and Lisa Knight, they're here in Atlanta, and then H.K. Edgerton joins us by satellite.
OK. I'm sorry. I had to take a break there. You were saying?
EDGERTON: Are you talking to me, sir?
LEMON: Yes.
EDGERTON: Well, here's the thing about it, having Confederate History Month and talking about leaving out slavery. The thing about it is when you have Confederate History Month and we start talking about the kind of things that took place around here in America, you can't leave out slavery. You have to talk about the place of honor and dignity that Africans (INAUDIBLE) earned under the Christian cross of St. Andrew. I'm talking about the Confederate flag.
Hollywood don't tell this story. Other folks don't tell this story. And it's one of the reasons why you need to have Confederate History Month. My question is, why are these folks afraid to have the Southern side told. They don't want to tell you about these things. We talk about black history month. I don't know how you can separate black history from Confederate history in the first place.
LEMON: OK. Can I get in here now please?
EDGERTON: Yes.
LEMON: OK. I don't think people -- I don't think people think that it shouldn't be taught in history books or people shouldn't learn about Confederate history.
I think there is a concern when people -- when you celebrate -- when it is believed that people are celebrating Confederate history, because when you celebrate that, you are -- it's an insult to African- Americans, an insult to people who were slaves when one of the main reasons, although you don't believe it was the whole reason, one of the main reasons behind the war was to keep people enslaved. And that's why people think it's insulting.
Black history month is one month out of the year. Go ahead.
EDGERTON: Well, are you still talking to me?
LEMON: Yes.
EDGERTON: OK. Listen, that's another sad part about this thing. The propriety of all these folks, including black folks, who presumed to assume that that slave somehow was just a man, all he did was to pick cotton and beans and sugarcane. He was a very intelligent man. This man could do everything.
LEMON: OK, Mr. Edgerton. Anyway, let's bring back -- I can't let you go on with that because that part is going to upset me when you talk about slavery.
No one wants to be a slave, black, white or whatever. No one wants to be a slave. And you talk about the intelligence, that's besides the point. To have someone enslaved, to own someone and control someone. It doesn't matter how smart they are, you still own and control them. So, they're not free. I don't get your point on that one.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I want to bring in Lisa and Tim again. And the reason -- I don't think anyone is saying, even Roland, anyone is saying, that we should not learn about the confederacy and not learn about the history of this country. I understand that. I'm a Southerner. I grew up in the South, so I know what it's about. But you don't understand that it's insulting and hurtful to some people when you celebrate this type of event? Go ahead.
L. KNIGHT: I think your choice of the word "celebrate" is a slanted word. I think we are -- our goal is to educate. We are not celebrating an atrocity where hundreds of thousands of Americans on both sides were killed.
LEMON: All right. Even a -- even a proclamation. It maybe right to celebrate. But even a proclamation, some people are still insulted by that.
L. KNIGHT: I'm not sure why that would be because any major conflict, any time where American blood was spilled, that would be something for us to note, something for us to reflect on and say this was something that happened that was significant.
For us to celebrate, no. And that's not what we do, but we do educate. We do relive. We do pull people in and help them understand as much as we can what really happened.
LEMON: So, here's the question. Here's what I think. It should be in the history books and it is. I learned about it in school. And it's in the history books all the way up from elementary schools on up to college. You get the history of this country and you know about slavery.
Having a proclamation, I think, and the whole time to learn about it when you don't include slavery and denouncing slavery, are you saying that we should have had slaves? Do you believe that we should have had slaves? Do you believe that slavery should exist in our country?
T. KNIGHT: I don't believe slavery should exist anywhere in the world. It still does. But the simple fact of the matter, I'm not trying to, you know, state anybody who owned slaves, they are right or wrong. But for 200 years ago to 2,000 years ago, slavery was a part of the -- not just this country, but every nation on the planet.
LEMON: I absolutely agree with that.
L. KNIGHT: And there were African-American slave owners in the South. So, it's not a black-white issue. I mean, yes, slavery as an institution is an abomination. We all agree on that and we're not celebrating the institution of slavery.
LEMON: Are there in your group -- are there black reenactors in your group?
L. KNIGHT: Not currently. But we've had...
T. KNIGHT: Not currently. We've had three different members.
L. KNIGHT: But on our roster right now, we don't currently have any. We only have about 40 people on the roster.
LEMON: OK. So, Mr. Edgerton, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked them. Do you think that there should be slavery in this country? Do you agree with slavery?
H.K. EDGERTON, CONFEDERATE REENACTOR: Absolutely not. I'm not here to defend the economic institution of slavery. What I am here defending is the fact that you want to take history and paint one side of...
LEMON: No, no, not me. I don't want to paint history anything.
EDGERTON: When I say you, I don't mean you personally. What I'm instead is saying is that folks in America -- you see, the North owes the Southern people -- done a great injustice here. The whole world was complicit in the economic institution of slavery. Nobody talked about those Africans who went into my grand mama's village and snatched her out from her mother's arms and put her on the shores of West Africa and put her into slavery. Africans were just as guilty. New York, you are...
LEMON: Mr. Edgerton, Mr. Edgerton, I have to go because of time purposes. We only have a few minutes left on the air and there are other things that we have to do. So, I appreciate this and maybe if we can get you back, we'll continue this discussion.
But I also learned about Africa's role in slavery in elementary school, and I'm not that young, it's back in the '70s. So, I disagree with you that we are not taught about that. That's in the history books and we talked about it for. Thank you all for joining us. And again, as I have said and I think as Roland has said, everyone has the right to protest, to celebrate, to reenact, to do what they want, but to leave out one part of it is disingenuous.
L. KNIGHT: And we would agree with you on that.
T. KNIGHT: I disagree.
LEMON: Thank you, thank you.
T. KNIGHT: I disagree, too.
LEMON: I appreciate -- I appreciate you all joining us.
Very passionate opinions there from people who still love the stars and bars.
After we break here, we've got a very different perspective from an author and an activist who has built an entire career fighting racism and he says paying tribute to the Confederacy is an abomination.
Plus, a plane crash kills dozens of members of a country's leadership, including its president. Tonight, we're tracking the latest developments for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: An uproar in Virginia this week after the governor declared April Confederate History Month without any mention of slavery. Later he said he was sorry and changed the proclamation. Well, tonight, we've heard from three Civil War reenactors who see nothing wrong with honoring the Confederacy and what it stood for.
But you won't see activist and author Tim Wise slipping into a gray uniform even though his roots in the South run deep. His new book "Colorblind: The Rise of Post-Racial Politics and the Retreat from Racial Equity" is coming out in just a few weeks. He says Confederate History Month is a major step back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIM WISE, AUTHOR, "COLORBLIND": Well, I think the proclamation indicates that we are still very ignorant about the history not only of Virginia but of this country.
The truth of the matter is that the State of Virginia only seceded after the vice presidency of the Confederacy Alexander Stevens went to Richmond in April of 1861, this very month that we're talking about commemorating, and basically gave an unbelievably racist speech where he said that the moral underpinning of our entire system is the notion of the inferiority of the African.
And he said that if Virginia didn't secede, that the system of slavery that the South depended upon would be in danger. So when Virginia then seceded, having previously decided not to, they were convinced by this unbelievably racist talk that was all about slavery.
When Virginia then says we're going to commemorate that, what they are saying is we are going to commemorate the decision to break away from the United States government. And that decision was made explicitly on the basis of a racist speech given by the vice presidency of that Confederate government that said we had to do that in order to maintain the system of white supremacy.
LEMON: Here's what the governor said. You know, we take a look. It needs to be taught and look back at our history. And I don't know if you were but I remember being taught about the Civil War in school all the way up until college. So why the need then for a proclamation? That's what people are asking.
WISE: Well, I think then as now and even during the civil rights struggle, this attempt to rewrite history on the part of Neo- Confederates goes hand in hand with a desire on the part of a lot of white Americans and some who are people of color to overlook or to white-wash or to diminish the role of racism in our history.
If you think about when the Confederate flag, for example, became a symbol again in this country, it was in the 1950s during the battles over desegregation. It was chosen by overt white supremacists to represent that viewpoint.
So, every time that we have seen this upsurge in Neo-Confederate thinking and activism, it's been at a moment when the country was undergoing profound change, whether it was civil rights or now having a black president, having a country that in about 30 years will be half white folks, half people of color. I don't think that is a coincidence, that is, if those moments when this kind of thing comes back again.
LEMON: There are people who are writing me now, who are saying, hey, you need to go back and learn history. Slavery was not a point in the Civil War. It had nothing to do with it.
WISE: That's absolutely preposterous. If you look at the declaration of causes that were issued by the states who left the Union, every single time that they explained their decision, they said that the reason, not one of the, but the reason was the fear that the federal government under Lincoln was going to abolish slavery.
That's what they believed. They were worried, for example, that they would not be able to have slaves in the newly acquired territories to the West that had been taken after the war with Mexico. That was the sticking point.
In fact, the vice presidency of the Confederacy Alexander Stevens stood up and said, right after Lincoln was elected, that all the other issues had been resolved. The trade issues, the tariff issues, the tax issues, they have all been resolved. The only remaining factor, according to the vice president of the Confederate government, was the institution of African slavery, which I should point out he said was a wonderful, moral and God-ordained system of government.
For anyone to want to commemorate the Confederacy when its own leaders said that that's what it stood for is an abomination.
LEMON: Tim, I have to ask you this. Gone a bit long, but I want to ask you. You heard the conversation with the Civil War reenactors, the two here in Georgia and the African-American man who said, you know, we need to learn about that, there were some smart slaves and they fought in the war. What did you make of what they had to say?
WISE: Well, of course, there were smart slaves, smart enough to run away from enslavement. Tens of thousands of African-descended folks in the South who ran away and joined the Union Army. The ones who supposedly served the Confederacy were forced to do so.
Look, I am from the South. I have folks and my family did own slaves. And their slaves didn't have any choice but to go away with them when they went to war. It's not like they could say no, you know what, I think I want to stay at home, thank you for the offer.
You know, that's the point when you're someone's property. You do what they tell you to do. The reality is and these reenactors know it, there is not a single case of any black person in the North running away to the South to take advantage of the wonderful and beneficent system that we like to tell people we had here, and I think that speaks volumes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Thank you, Tim. The Civil War still dividing the country 145 years after it ended. Conversation that's not going away and we're going to keep following it for you. Make sure you stay tuned to this program.
Thailand police come hard after anti-government protesters. And when all of this was over, more than a dozen people were dead. We have details for you just ahead.
And it was a home of the Dallas Cowboys for nearly 40 years, but tomorrow Texas Stadium will be rubble and an 11-year-old boy will push the button. We're going to talk to him.
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LEMON: Want to check your top stories right now. An apparent gunfight inside a shopping mall in Muskogee, Oklahoma, leaves one person dead and several injured. CNN affiliate KJRH reports six people were taken to a hospital after the shooting this afternoon. Now, shoppers inside the mall said they heard at least four or five shots. Witnesses described it as a gunfight. It is unclear whether the person was involved in the shooting or just a bystander. The mall was packed as part of the town's Azalea Festival activities.
Poland is in mourning after an early morning plane crash in Russia killed the country's president, Lech Kaczynski. Also among the nearly 100 dead, the Polish first lady and many Polish military leaders. The delegation had gone to Russia to mark the 70th anniversary of a massacre of Polish POW's in World War II. The military plane crashed in heavy fog while approaching the airport in Smolensk.
The worst violence Bangkok has seen in nearly 20 years. More violent clashes between Thai police and government protesters. Today, 18 people were killed including a cameraman for the Reuters News Agency. Hundreds of people were hurt. Protesters had been in the streets for weeks demanding the prime minister's resignation and new elections.
And in just a few hours, a football icon goes out with a bang. About 50 bangs actually. Texas Stadium in Irvine -- or Irving, I should say, only home --- the old home of the Dallas Cowboys, America's team, has a date with demolition. There was an essay contest to decide who would push the button and blow it up. And I talked with the winner earlier. You're going to love him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The big bang, are you nervous?
CASEY ROGERS, IMPLOSION CONTEST WINNER: No, I'm not. Just a little bit.
LEMON: What do you mean -- a little bit.
ROGERS: Well, I'm kind of nervous and kind of excited.
LEMON: Been able to sleep?
ROGERS: Well, a little bit.
LEMON: What do your buds think of you?
ROGERS: Some of them are kind of -- a lot of them are having fun but some of them are kind of jealous.
LEMON: Yes. Well, I know if I was 11, I feel like I want to do that, , why does he get to do it, mom, I can do it. So, you've been practicing?
ROGERS: No, I haven't.
LEMON: You haven't? So do you know -- are you going to have to pull a lever, push a button, light up a big stick of dynamite? What do you have to do?
ROGERS: Push a button.
LEMON: Push a button. You could do that, right.
ROGERS: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What a cute kid. He told me when we put this interview, have a dynamite day. Anyway. Casey better be in bed now. He's got a big day tomorrow -- tomorrow morning. He's all of 11 years old. He won the essay contest by writing about his charity with the homeless. Good luck. We'll check back with him and see what happens after it's demolished.
A concerned mom or nosy busybody. An Arkansas woman has been sued for harassment by her teenage son. It's all because of what she did to his Facebook account. You'll hear what she has to say about that.
And later, we'll take you to California where one beach town took the air out of a popular college spring break ritual called "floatopia." Some say it's a new spring break.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MACKENZIE BEARUP, CNN HERO: I was in the fifth grade when I hurt my knee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready?
BEARUP: Yes, I'm ready.
The doctor diagnosed me with reflex sympathetic dystrophy. When something touches it, it's like a bomb goes off in my knee. Even though I've tried many different treatments, the only thing able to get my mind off the pain was reading.
Do you guys like to read?
My pediatrician told me about a home for abused children. Any child being in horrible pain like this, they need something, and something that I knew that helped me was books.
OK. This is called "Screaming Millie."
But the people in these shelters are just like you and me. They need things to get their mind off of whatever they're going through. I put flyers in mailboxes and I set up a Web site.
Thank you so much for donating.
My original goal was to get 300 books. Before I knew it, I had 3,000 books. My total right now is 38,000 books. And I've delivered books to libraries and reading rooms and 27 different shelters in six states.
And take as many books as you want.
If one child finds a love of reading through books I've given them, then that will help them in school and just turn their life around entirely. I really think that reading can do that for someone.
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LEMON: Ever heard of "floatopia"? All right. You're going to learn about it tonight. "Floatopia" deflated. Local officials say last year's overcrowded spring break event near Santa Barbara, California, convinced them to close down the public beach. And CNN's Sara Weisfeldt spoke with students and police about how "floatopia" got out of hand.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's pretty much a day at the beach. The whole community comes together. We go down. Float. People dance and people tan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It started out relatively small scale, about 200 or 300 people. And last year was actually the first year that it kind of boomed with Facebook to around 10,000 people. And when I say Facebook, I mean an event was created on the social networking site that invitations ended up being sent out throughout California.
The organizers on Facebook wanted to advertise the event and essentially invite these people to show up to our community, but have no accountability with kind of dealing with the event or managing the event.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mix of alcohol, the water, the sun and the surf, it just created a disaster and we had 33 people that went to the hospital for various injuries, ranging from alcohol overdose to falls from the cliff. We saw a number of water rescues by our fire department. Once those social networking sites get going, there's really no stopping them.
The only response that we could have a county who is responsible for the safety of everybody in this town is to close the beach and prevent this from happening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I understand it's shut down for everyone. What happens to the person who wants to go for a walk on the beach? They do their run on the beach everyday. They can't go down there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'll expect to see tens of thousands of people in bathing suits dancing in the streets. It's definitely a street party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And really that's the best-case scenario for us from a law enforcement perspective because in this town, we deal with these weekend parties, Friday and Saturday night parties, all year long. So it's really not anything different other than the fact that the sun will be out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. We want to tell you Chris Par, the Facebook organizer who you saw in the piece, was among 13 people arrested today, most for disorderly conduct. He's accused of stealing a golf cart. How much privacy should your kids have anyway? I'll tell you about a lawsuit where mom is a defendant. Her son is a plaintiff and Facebook is the issue.
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LEMON: Every weekend, news items that you might have missed. Interesting news items. This one is in Tigard, Oregon. City workers still haven't heard from the owner of an expensive diamond ring found in a clogged sewer. Officials have been tight lipped on the details. They'll only say it is a custom-made ring and lots of precious stones in it. The figure only -- they figure only the real owner will be able to describe it. So far, no one has described it. No one has come forward.
Parents are encouraged to monitor their children's online activities, right? But Denise New may have gone too far. This according to her son. Prosecutors in Arkansas have charged her with harassing her teenage son because she changed his Facebook password. She doesn't deny it, but she says her son's postings were over the top and she needed to step in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENISE NEW, MOTHER: It's crazy to me that we are even having this interview. I'm going to fight it. If I have to go even higher up, I'm going to. I'm not going to let this rest. I think that it's a precedent -- it could be a precedent moment for poor parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This could be a very interesting case if it does go to court. We'll keep you posted. I'd be more afraid of the whipping from my mom than the judge.
All right. I'm Don Lemon in Atlanta. Thank you for joining us and thank you for your comments on Twitter and Facebook about our conversation on the Civil War reenactors. I'll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00, 7:00 and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Good night.
