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Stranded in the Netherlands; Ash Cloud Grounds Flights; OKC Bombing 15 Years Later
Aired April 18, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well tonight, patience is running thin not only for stranded air travelers but from airlines losing millions by the day, all because of one stubborn volcano. When will they fly again?
One day before the anniversary of one of the deadliest terror attacks on U.S. soil, a former president worries a current political climate might be cultivating more Timothy McVeighs.
Tonight you'll also hear from the youngest survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing 15 years later.
You've heard it often -- get a good financial adviser to make sure your money is safe. But some church leaders now say the house of worship is the key to obtaining and increasing personal wealth. They join us live this hour to tell us why.
Hello everyone, I'm Don Lemon.
Europe's travel nightmare could begin to improve in just a matter of hours. A European Union commissioner says if the ash cloud continues to move, and that's a big if, then almost half of the air space would be risk free tomorrow, they think.
Meantime, test flights were airborne today across Europe. There were no passengers aboard. They were just tests at this point. But an E.U. official says there was, quote, "no impact on the flight" and one airline spokesperson declares Europe's air space is safe except for the area near Iceland.
But like passengers left waiting at empty gates, safety officials are standing firm. More than 20,000 Sunday flights have been canceled, and the airlines are getting impatient.
Late today, top airline and airport industry groups called for an immediate reassessment of flight restrictions which are costing an estimated $200 million a day. Are these restrictions going too far? In a few minutes I'll ask a veteran pilot and safety expert.
Iceland's volcano shows few signs of letting up at this point; more smoke and ash billowing into the air today and still no way of knowing when it might subside. So we're going to check in with our Gary Tuchman, who has spent the weekend on the banks of the volcano.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Iceland is a spectacularly beautiful place. But usually it's very cloudy and the visibility is poor. Over my shoulder, the mountain with the volcano was erupting you can't see the eruptions right now, but earlier we could see it very clearly when it was very sunny, which is very unusual here.
But we have been going in a helicopter right next to it and you saw the eruption. It was unbelievable and the strength of it. The good news so far today is that scientists here are saying it's weakening a bit. That doesn't mean it's going to stop, it doesn't mean it will get stronger. So that's relatively good news.
The irony here in Iceland is that while people in Europe are suffering from the traveling, here in Iceland the Reykjavik Airport is operating normally because it's to the west of the volcano and the winds have been going to the west. Everything is normal travel wise here.
However, for the people who live to the east of the volcano, to the south of the volcano, it's a lot different story. That's the way the winds have been flowing.
On Friday we met a farmer who had a 2,500-acre farm just to the south of the volcano. His family has owned the farm for 104 years but this volcano has been quiet for about 190 years; they've never had a problem with the volcano.
We went to visit him today and it was sad because the winds were blowing to the south yesterday and now his farm is covered with ash. And this I this isn't just a fine, misty ash. This is mucky mud that's on every square inch of his farm and on barn, on top of his house. His cattle and his livestock are fine but there is going to be a lot of cleaning up to do to make it back to normal again.
The growing season starts in a couple weeks. That will have to be delayed. And the problem of cleaning it up is you don't know if it's going to happen again because you don't know when this volcano will stop erupting.
This Gary Tuchman, CNN, in Hvolsvollur, Iceland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Gary, thank you very much.
A Virginia couple stranded in the Netherlands by Europe's air travel shutdown is using every means possible to stay in touch with their kids back home; four children, all under the age of nine.
Tonight, CNN's Sara Lee has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What was supposed to be a few days in Europe to visit family is now going on two weeks; sadness, separation, and a lot of Internet Skyping.
For the Pattersons of Midlothian, Virginia, parents Jen and Steve are among the millions stranded overseas because of the Icelandic volcano eruptions.
STEVE PATTERSON, STRANDED TRAVELER: Our flight tomorrow is canceled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
S. PATTERSON: So -- because the stuff in the air is just too dangerous.
JEN PATTERSON, STRANDED TRAVELER: But I'm just dying to see you guys. This is the hardest thing mommy's ever done, so you guys are the bravest kids in the world. I love you so much.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love you too.
J. PATTERSON: I know that you're being so loved and taken care of there.
LEE: A grandmother had been watching the children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look, mommy's making a funny face. Can you see? Can you make a funny face to mommy?
LEE: But now friends are pitching in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're good on milk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids run out today maybe until your mom gets here and John's going to mow the grass this afternoon. It's getting a little long.
S. PATTERSON: How is it looking?
JOHN: A little rough, a little rough, Steve. I'll tell you.
LEE: But even rougher for them, the anxiety of being apart. The family spends a lot of time online sharing laughs. Shedding tears but also making plans.
J. PATTERSON: What's the first thing you guys want to do when we come home?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go to the zoo.
S. PATTERSON: I think I might kiss the ground when we get home.
LEE: Can you just share with us again just how you're dealing with this, how you're coping?
J. PATTERSON: It's hard. Lots of tears, not a lot of sleep. I mean, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I don't get out a whole lot. I'm not an adventurous person. This was a hard enough thing for me to do. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye.
J. PATTERSON: I love you.
LEE: Sara Lee for CNN, Midlothian, Virginia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: What a nice family.
You know, one American whose flight was canceled -- whose his flight was canceled is making the most of her unexpected down time.
Her name is Missy Sternlic. She lives in Paris, but she was supposed to fly to New York this weekend to participate in an MS march. She was diagnosed with MS just a few years ago.
When her travel plans were disrupted, she organized her own MS march in Paris, which she put together in the last 24 hours. At least 100 people showed up today, many of them Americans who were stuck in the city and wanted to do something constructive.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISSY STERNLIC, FLIGHT CANCELLED/MARCH ORGANIZER: So I quickly e-mailed a bunch of my friends that I knew were also stranded and got an incredible response and incredible support and then they invited their friends and their friends. And I think people got really excited about being able to do something positive in this crazy time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Making the most of a bad situation. Sternlic says she had been planning her New York trip for a few months but she is thrilled at the quick and positive response to her march in Paris.
High and mighty claims from Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today. He says Iran is so powerful right now no country would dare attack it. This came as Iran wrapped up its own nuclear nonproliferation conference. The country wasn't invited to the nuclear summit in Washington last week. Iran used its forum to demand that Israel join a pact to keep nukes out of the Middle East.
Of course this comes at a time most of the west believes Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons of its own. And while Iran's President may say that no country would even try an offensive, the U.S. is updating plans to do just that if it ever becomes necessary.
Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us now by phone. Barbara, are they selecting potential targets in Iran right now?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Don, the Pentagon and the U.S. military likes to say it is always planning and all options always remain on the table. They hope diplomacy works, but what is now clear, Don, is for the last several weeks the U.S. military has been updating options for striking Iran's nuclear program.
There's a couple of things going on here. First, Defense Secretary Robert Gates has written a classified memo to the White House outlining what he believes are a number of decisions that he says need to be made in the weeks and months ahead now that the White House is on this so-called tough track with Iran trying to step up the pressure for sanctions to give up the nukes but still Gates saying in a statement issued just tonight by the Pentagon, saying that the U.S. is prepared to act across a broad range of contingencies if it has to.
And that takes us to the second part, updating those military options. The Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S. Central Command, sources tell us, across the board, the U.S. military looking again at Iran's suspected nuclear sites and updating their options how they would attack them, what information they would present to the President if he was to ever say I want to go ahead with a military strike, I want to make sure President Obama has the most inclusive, comprehensive intelligence and information about any potential military strike -- Don.
LEMON: Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, thank you.
Backlash against members of Congress; members spat on, called derogatory names, even threatened. Former President Bill Clinton says the mood in this country today is similar to just before the Oklahoma City bombing. Is he right? Also --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I'm just trying to fight for something that I think most people see as just crossing the line, the straw that breaks the camel's back when it comes to air travel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Senator Chuck Schumer making it his personal mission to make sure your carry-on bag flies free. What he's saying today about the rising cost of air travel.
And a wild ride gets wet. A stunt plane becomes a submarine. What happened after this crash?
And don't just sit there. Be a part of our conversation tonight. Send me a tweet or send me a message on Facebook and check out our blog, CNN.com/Don. We want to hear what you think.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Let's talk politics now with the man who covers it all for CNN, our political editor Mr. Mark Preston.
Hey, Mark. I didn't get to see you yesterday. MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey.
LEMON: We had the special. There's been so much politics going on; haven't seen you in a while. Doing ok?
PRESTON: Busy, busy weekend. I am doing great, doing great.
LEMON: Ok, let's talk now.
Let's start with the Supreme Court. And we know that, you know, now that the Justice -- Justice Stevens is going to retire, he has said that. Everybody in D.C., of course, is speculating about who the President might pick to replace him.
Some names are getting tossed around a lot, but the President is getting pressure really from all sides on this one, even within his own party. And a lot of people are saying let's not make it a judge this time, let's not make it a Harvard graduate. What do you think?
PRESTON: Yes, let's make it a politician. We heard Bill Clinton talk a little about that today, Don. Bill Clinton was asked that on "This Week" would he consider an appointment to the Supreme Court and he took himself out of the mix as well as taking his wife out of the mix.
You know, you and I spoke about this last week, Don. Hillary Clinton on the Supreme Court, it almost seems like a natural thing to do. But of course she doesn't seem to be on that short list.
He is facing a lot of pressure from the liberal left of his own party to put somebody on the court that they feel will help steer what has been a pretty conservative court as of late, a little back -- a little bit more back to the left.
But yes, you're absolutely right, a lot of pressure on him right now.
LEMON: Here's what I've been seeing that's bubbling on the blogs. I've been getting e-mails in responses and I don't know if he's getting pressure on this end -- on his end, rather -- have you been hearing anything about -- people are saying that the next Supreme Court Justice or at least the nominee should be an African-American woman? How much play is that getting?
PRESTON: Yes, you know, I think there's probably a constituency out there that would like to see an African-American woman added to the bench. But I don't think it's something that he himself feels a lot of pressure.
When he was running for president, he made a point to say on several occasions, "I'm running to be President of the United States, not to be the first black president of the United States."
So he has tried very hard not to make race a part of his whole presidency. There is one person who is on the list, Don, or at least has been mentioned, and it's someone from your neck of the woods down in Georgia. The woman's name is Leah Ward Sears.
LEMON: Yes.
PRESTON: She was on the State Supreme Court. The problem with her, though, is that some on the liberal left think that she's a little bit too conservative. So, you know, no one would be a perfect pick that would certainly make everyone happy that's for sure.
LEMON: Yes, when you think about it and you look at the makeup of the court, you look at women, there's an Hispanic woman, a Jewish, you know, you have all the protestants, or whatever, you have men. There is an African-American woman, you have an African-American man. So you know, it's -- there is a case to be made there as you said from some -- some groups and some constituents.
Ok, so listen. Let's turn now to the Florida senate race, right, the Republican primary in particular. Governor Charlie Crist once looked like a shoe-in but he is trailing to Marco Rubio badly in the polls. This is an important race and a big showdown.
PRESTON: A hugely important race. And Charlie Crist is someone, Don, that we have been talking about over the past couple of years as a potential Vice Presidential candidate and maybe even a presidential candidate. He represents a very large state.
When he decided to run for Senate, it was an easy in. There was no question that -- that he could win the Republican primary. And in fact many thought that he would just win the general election.
LEMON: But why so important this race, though?
PRESTON: Well, it's hugely important because he was backed by the Republican establishment here in Washington, D.C., and we had this upstart, Marco Rubio, a former House Speaker, who said, "I'm going to run even though you're not going to support me, even though you here in Washington are not going to support me. I'm still going to do it."
And I actually had a conversation with Marco Rubio, Don. Probably about year ago and I said why are you even running? No one is backing you; you're down by 25 points in the polls. Why don't you just run for attorney general -- state attorney general, you know, you're trying to get your chops?
He's a young guy, he's 38 years old. He looked to me and said, you know what, Mark, because I want to run for senate. And I'm not going to let anyone tell me what to do.
And guess what, a year later he's now up by 20-plus points, you know, according to the latest Quinnipiac poll.
LEMON: Yes and, hey, Mark, listen. We have to run. We're talk about this later at 10:00. Some are asking and asking Crist if he's going to run as an independent, may he should, he's saying he's not going do it. We'll drill down more at 10:00, ok?
PRESTON: Ok. Terrific. LEMON: Thank you, sir.
Still ahead here on CNN, a day no American will ever forget.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her whole left side was just a piece of raw meat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We are talking tonight to the youngest survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing, the children in the daycare who made it out alive. The 15-year anniversary is tomorrow.
And just how dangerous would it be to fly through a cloud of volcanic ash? Hear from a pilot who tried it decades ago and barely made it out.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We want to give your top stories right now.
Five major airlines promise they won't charge you for carry-on bags, this according to Senator Chuck Schumer of New York. Schumer says he personally got commitments from American, Delta, Jetblue, United and US Airways. The senator says Americans are sick of being nickeled and dimed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Everyone cares about this. You know, life is difficult these days. It gets more and more complicated and more and more difficult. Let's keep a couple of things the way they were.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Senator Chuck Schumer will be our guest at 10:00 p.m. tonight. We'll talk to him about that.
You know, this comes after Spirit Airlines became the first company right here in the U.S. to charge for carry-ons. Spirit charges 45 bucks to store a bag overhead. But its tickets are often cheaper.
Iceland's volcano keeps erupting but we could see some relief soon for air travelers. Several test flights with no passengers on board took place across the region today with no problems. And the E.U. says up to 50 percent of normal air traffic could return by tomorrow. Until then, major European airports remain at a virtual standstill.
There's a very good reason airlines are scared of that volcanic ash. It can choke the engines and drop a plane like a stone. The aviation world first learned from the danger from British Airways Flight 9 in 1982.
Listen to this story. It's amazing. The plane was flying over Indonesia at night with 260 passengers on board. Imagine if you were on this plane. Ash clouds don't show up on weather radar and Flight 9 went right into one. Suddenly, lives were in danger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC MOODY, PILOT, BRITISH AIRWAYS FLIGHT 9: I had to talk to (INAUDIBLE) and what I wanted to do was talk to the chief steward because I wanted him to come up to the flight deck and tell him what was happening.
I tried to use the telephone system. That wasn't working. So the only way I could try to communicate was through the passenger address. And I just, being an honest guy, I said, "Good evening, again, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. All four -- we have a small problem in that all four engines have failed. We're doing our utmost to keep -- to get them going. I trust you're not in too much distress." And he appeared on flight deck a little later and I was able to tell him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: After gliding for several minutes the crew managed to reignite those engines. Incidents like this led to global tracking system for volcano clouds.
Man that was a frightening story. Despite that frightening experience at least some frustrated, stranded air passengers feel the airlines are overreacting to that risk posed by the volcanic ash and they say it isn't that great.
Air safety expert John Wiley is a former commercial airline pilot. He is an instructor as well. I saw him sort of -- when I said it's not a great risk, you -- So you now fly corporate jets.
JOHN WILEY, AIR SAFETY EXPERT: I do.
LEMON: Right here at a company in Atlanta. And you're the contributing editor for --
WILEY: "Aviation Week" magazine.
LEMON: "Aviation Week".
So listen, when you hear about that Flight 9 on British Airways, that was one of the most frightening things I'd ever seen on television. At the time I saw this, I think it was at 7 News in Australia and then "Dateline" here in the U.S. eventually did it.
I couldn't believe it. They didn't know at that point what was going on. They just lost all four engines.
WILEY: Well, the passengers started getting some information, as did the crew. And that is you're going to start seeing -- your instruments are going to start indicating you've got a problem. There is a visible glow around the engines as they're ingesting this ash, which creates a glow around the engines.
LEMON: The engines are on fire. You think they're sparking.
WILEY: Yes. And then there's noxious odors which are coming into the cabin. So you've got noise, you've got smell, you've got visual. These things are not good.
LEMON: So fast forward to today. They're saying, oh, this isn't a big problem. Is it too -- did they act too quickly in halting these flights?
WILEY: No, not at all. Not at all because I as a pilot, I operate on what's called acceptable risk. I am not going to go into unacceptable risk. That is the possibility of losing the aircraft, millions of dollars; losing passengers, fatalities, which are going to be very, very costly. And even if I complete the mission and I wind up encountering one of these clouds of ashes, I can literally do millions of dollars of damage to my aircraft.
There's no upside to doing it. I know the passengers want to get there, but let's get them there safely, on time, and be able to use the equipment tomorrow.
LEMON: I think the first sentence you said, the passengers want to get there, and if you fly through volcanic ash, you may not even get there.
WILEY: Exactly.
LEMON: It clogs the engines. It's not like ordinary smoke or is it?
WILEY: No.
LEMON: It's like -- what, from a forest fire? You're saying it's not like that ordinary smoke.
WILEY: And actually, the things that I've read on it said it's an acrid odor, it's sulfuric, so it's unpleasant.
LEMON: Your risk here -- 1 to 10.
WILEY: Well, the problem is, is that you don't really know and there's no upside to it. Possibly losing the aircraft, possibly damaging the aircraft, possibly of fatalities -- excuse me, I'm not accepting that. I operate on certainty, not luck.
LEMON: You don't want to hear, "We've lost all four engines, I hope you're not in too much distress."
WILEY: No, not too much distress.
LEMON: Yes. They had -- and you know what, I'm going to move on to talk to Jacqui Jeras but they were literally trying to start those engines themselves, the flight attendants and the crew.
WILEY: There are procedures, but you don't want to get to the point where you have to use the procedures.
LEMON: Yes. John Wiley, always good information.
WILEY: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
Stay put right here. We're going to talk to CNN's Jacqui Jeras, our meteorologist here. She is monitoring the flight traffic in Europe.
Jacqui, are you getting any information? Anybody airborne?
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. They're -- people have been airborne all day. Only 80 percent of the air space has been closed here. They're hoping to open it up to 50 percent.
Most of that has been across southern Europe. You can see across Italy, over towards Turkey, and then over here into parts of Spain. We did see a couple of flights today take off from Germany and also we saw one flight over Norway -- so very interesting to start to see some of this pop up.
Now if weather conditions remain, things are going to be looking a little bit better for tomorrow.
And this is the satellite image from the European Meteorology Bureau here. And there you can see Iceland way up here and there is that plume, right here, all that orange. What you're seeing over the U.K. right there, that's just cloudiness from a little cold front in the area so this is not ash.
So you can see that things certainly have gotten a little bit better. The winds are going to be changing over the next couple days and they're going to be taking a little bit of a dip down to the south so that's going to increase that ash risk across the Netherlands as well as Germany so, that's what we're going to be watching over the next couple of days.
And real quick, one other thing I want to show you, really cool satellite here from NASA. This is a special satellite that they use to detect ash in volcanoes. And notice this bright thing here on the infrared. That's enough energy in that little area to provide energy to 60,000 homes, Don. That's a very small part of the energy that's emitted by the volcano.
LEMON: Unbelievable. John Wiley sitting right here paying very close attention to you. He's very interested in this.
Jacqui Jeras, thank you very much. We'll check back with you and maybe we'll talk to John Wiley a little bit later on as well.
Meantime the youngest victims of the Oklahoma City bombing, families and caregivers say their survival was a struggle against all odds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His lungs were severely damaged. It was touch and go with P.J. for a long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We catch up with some of the young people who survived the deadly blast and see how they are moving along with their lives now.
And Pope Benedict meets with some of the victims of the sexual abuse scandal rocking the Roman Catholic Church.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, you know, I really want you to pay attention to this story. I often tell you that, and I mean it. So where were you 15 years ago tomorrow? I'm asking you that because it marks the 15th anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building.
Remember that? Of the 168 people who lost their lives, 19 of them were children. And miraculously, six of them survived that terrible blast. I talked with some of the fortunate few now in their teens and in their 20s.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a daycare which was located in the federal building. At 9:00 in the morning you would imagine that it was probably pretty full.
LEMON (voice-over): How could anyone, especially a child, survive this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy cow.
LEMON: But somehow six children did. One of them, 18-month-old P.J. Allen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His lungs were severely damaged. It was touch and go with P.J. for a long time.
LEMON: This is 15 years later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice!
P.J. ALLEN, OKLAHOMA BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'm P.J. Allen. I'm 16 years old. I survived the Oklahoma City bombing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We mentioned to you earlier the little girl, they had not been able to connect her with her parents. We understand the little girl's name is Rebecca. Her 3 1/2-year-old brother, Brandon, blue eyes, reddish-blond hair, he is still missing.
LEMON: Parents like the Dennys were helpless.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really didn't think our children survived it. How could they? It was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her whole left side was just a piece of raw meat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had 240 stitches in my face.
LEMON: Fifteen years later --
REBECCA DENNY, OKLAHOMA BOMBING SURVIVOR: All right!
My name is Rebecca Denny. I'm 17 years old, and I survived the Oklahoma City bombing.
LEMON: 240 stitches for Rebecca, but her three-year-old brother, Brandon suffered severe brain injuries.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, they said he might not live. And second of all if he does live he will never walk or talk again.
LEMON: Brandon proved them wrong.
BRANDON DENNY, OKLAHOMA BOMBING SURVIVOR: Hi. I'm Brandon Denny and I'm 18 years old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see yet another child being carried away.
THU NGUYEN, FATHER OF CHRIS NGUYEN: I stopped by the 7-11 on the way to downtown and I bought some plastic bag with the intent to pick up my son's body.
CHRIS NGUYEN, OKLAHOMA BOMBING SURVIVOR: I'm Chris Nguyen. I'm 20 years old and I survived the Oklahoma City bombing.
LEMON: They are the youngest survivors of the deadliest act of homegrown terror on U.S. soil, children, now young adults, who tell us time heals some but not all wounds.
REBECCA DENNY: When you go through something like this, it just doesn't go away. Like the next day or the next year. It affects you for your whole life.
LEMON: (on camera): Do you remember anything from the bombing?
BRANDON DENNY: No.
LEMON: Not much?
BRANDON DENNY: Mm-mm.
LEMON: Nothing at all?
(voice-over): Brandon is a man of few words. He and his sister are both juniors in high school and are getting on with their lives.
(on camera): Do you ever wonder why you survived?
REBECCA DENNY: Yes. A lot I wonder. But, I don't know, I guess I have something important to do.
LEMON: That same pressure is shared by child survivor Chris Nguyen, now a sophomore at Oklahoma University.
CHRIS NGUYEN: I've been given like a gift, you could say, and if I don't make something of my life to succeed and like make a difference of some kind then I would have wasted my life. That dishonors those who died because who knows what they could have done with their lives but they don't have that chance.
LEMON: Do you ever feel guilty because you're here and others aren't?
CHRIS NGUYEN: Sometimes, yes. I think about the other parents, all the other day care children and families who have lost someone. I feel guilty almost that Brandon, Rebecca, P.J. and I, we get to live our lives, get to fulfill our lives, and the other people, they don't get that opportunity.
LEMON (voice-over): And-16-year-old P.J. Allen is making the most of his life. Every week he works with a tutor and hopes to study mechanical engineering at M.I.T..
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Looks like you're doing good.
LEMON: He loves anything to do with sports.
(on camera): You want to play competitively, right?
ALLEN: Yes.
LEMON: But you can't.
ALLEN: Right.
LEMON: Why not?
ALLEN: Because my asthma stops me from running all the time, like constantly running. Sometimes coaches wouldn't want to play because I might get hurt.
LEMON: But there isn't one time where you go, why me?
ALLEN: No, no, I don't.
LEMON: You've never done it.
ALLEN: Mm-mm.
LEMON: Why not?
ALLEN: Because to me this is normal. As far as I remember. This has been what my life has been like.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: They are really some amazing kids. For more on my conversations with survivors of the Oklahoma City bombing, make sure you tune in to "CAMPBELL BROWN" tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN. You will be moved by these stories.
Dangerous words and threats filling the airwaves and the internet. Is it free speech or something more sinister going on? We're going to talk about it with a CNN contributor, John Avalon. And even the most skilled pilot in the world can have an off day, right? The view from a racing plane as it pushes or plunges like an envelope down towards the water. I'll tell you about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Some of our top stories this hour.
Pope Benedict met today with eight men who say they were abused by Catholic priests when they were children living in a Catholic orphanage. The 20-minute meeting took place on the Mediterranean island of Malta, where the men live. One of the victims said that the meeting was very emotional and left the Pope with tears in his eyes. The Vatican says Pope Benedict expressed shame and sorrow and assured the men that the church will do all in its power to bring to justice those responsible for the abuse.
And a breakneck point of view that we want you to look at. A racing plane losing control in Australia. This is from a practice run for this weekend's Red Bull Air Race in Perth. The Brazilian pilot clipped the surface of the water and there was no recovering from there. The plane flipped over into the water, but the rescuers just happened to be close by and they helped the pilot escape with only minor injuries. Very lucky.
All right. So listen, as we have been mentioning here, tomorrow marks the 15th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. Now, President Bill Clinton was president at the time. On Friday, he told our Wolf Blitzer that today's political climate reminds him of 1995 because of the rising level of angry rhetoric especially from fringe groups.
Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh immediately pounced on Clinton's comments calling it an invitation to violence. The former president was asked about it just today on ABC's "This Week." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: One leader of one of these groups said that all politics was just a prelude to civil war. And then the politicians, of course, not that serious, but a lot of the things that had been said, they create a climate in which people who were vulnerable to violence because they're disoriented, like Timothy McVeigh was, are more likely to act. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Our contributor, CNN contributor John Avalon joins us now. The former president getting pounced on by Rush Limbaugh, also by many conservatives. What do you make of this comparison 15 years ago?
JOHN AVALON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think it's a thoughtful comparison and there's a lot to back it up. President Clinton was very clear to say, look, we want more debate. This isn't about stifling debate. But we need to look at the overall dynamics, the overall trends. And we are seeing, you know, on the heels of a great recession, as there was in the early 1990s, a lot of anger, a lot of dislocation, fear of change, and real fury. And the polarization of our politics now more than ever before.
In the last year alone we've seen a 300 percent increase in the number of militia groups. Any growth like that hasn't been seen since the days of Timothy McVeigh.
LEMON: Yes.
AVALON: It's not to draw a one to one parallel, but we need to be aware of the forces we are playing with. And I thought it was a thoughtful remark.
LEMON: And so, John, you said, you and I talked about this and everything seems to be politicized these days. You can politicized, you know, Oklahoma City or anything, even an education special we did. But some things are just about truth. Now, listen, what is the truth -- everyone's trying to figure out when it comes to leaders, congressmen being spat upon, that's the accusation or bad things being said about them, racial epithets. I want you to listen to Ann Coulter on "Larry King live" Thursday night and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANN COULTER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: There is a 100,000 offer if anyone can bring a tape and there are photo cameras all over those people walking up. If you can show somebody saying the "n" word, well then you can win $100,000 if you can produce that tape because there is no tape on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Listen, John, we have the tape here on CNN. I saw it on CNN's "State of the Union" where they highlighted it where he waltz by Congressman (INAUDIBLE) walks through the crowd and he moves like someone is spitting on him, and then the police officer goes back, the person was I think taken into custody but then they decided not to press charges. So the tape is there and we'll try to get it on CNN so that you can see it and we'll highlight it the same way that Candy Crowley did.
So what do you make of this? People saying it didn't happen. John Lewis said to me on this very program that he did hear that.
AVALON: John Lewis, who, you know, President Bush called one of America's great heroes, I don't think anyone wants to be in the business of calling John Lewis a liar. I think we need to take people at their word. We need to restore a sense of civility, stop demonizing people who disagree with us and then stop getting in denial about the fact that the fringe has been blurring with the base over the last year.
There are principal arguments and disagreements that could be had in politics and should be have. But what we need to do is have people stand up to the extremes especially on their own side. Because we need to stand up to the extreme on both sides, if we're going to stop the cycle before this escalates even further. There's a special responsibility for folks to stand up to the extremes on their own side. The reluctance to do it is a sign of cowardness.
LEMON: Stand up to that and also remember stop politicizing everything. Because everything is not a conservative or a liberal argument. Some things are just about truth.
AVALON: Exactly right.
LEMON: John Avalon, thank you very much.
You know, we see the phrase "in god we trust" on our money all the time, but just how badly are the houses of god suffering in these tough economic times? We're talking with some bishops ahead in a major conference, right herein Atlanta.
Plus, the Obamas made more than $5 million last year. How much of that do they have to pay to the tax man?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. So for everyone who has contributed to the collection plate, that's just about everybody, and the collection plate in church today, religious leaders are looking for better ways to manage money and lead their flocks. The Focus 2010 conference kicks off in Atlanta tomorrow, and we've got two of the main speakers that are joining us live right here on CNN right now.
Bishop Eddie Long is a leader of the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Georgia. He's a frequent person here on CNN. And Bishop Dale Bronner is a senior pastor from Word of Faith Worship Cathedral in Austell, Georgia. Thanks to you all of you.
So tell us first, bishop, the overall theme of this. Is this about economic empowerment for the church, for the people in the church, for the community, all of the above?
BISHOP EDDIE LONG, NEW BIRTH MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: You would say all of the above. It's actually equipping leaders in the church, in the faith group to actually be able to give the right kind of information, what's happening. That's the reason why we have one of our speakers, Dr. Jeff Rosenswag, who is the chairman of Economics Department at the Emery, to give us a broad perspective of what's happening around the world economically because a lot of people in the community and our congregations, et cetera, do a lot of international business, are opening international business, are looking to see where the trends are and those kind of things. So it sharpens everyone.
LEMON: Bishop Bronner, let me ask you this. Right now, we have tough economic times. Everyone knows that. Is your church doing OK? Many churches are not. You guys have some of the most successful and biggest churches in the country. Are you doing OK in these economic times, or have you have to cut back programs?
BISHOP DALE BRONNER, WORD OF FAITH FAMILY WORKSHOP CATHEDRAL: We (INAUDIBLE) to cut back programs and I don't know whether it's because economic times drive many people back to the church. So, some people do wonderful in hard times, other people do terrible. And so we have actually been blessed. I don't exactly know what that is to be attributed to. But we do have a strong emphasis on helping people to develop business.
LEMON: The reason I ask that -- and I sort of anticipated your answer a little bit. Because there are people who say in the church -- of course, you should have a financial advisor outside of the church, but sometimes the church is the best to go to not only to get your mind together, your spirit together, your heart together. But to get your financial house in order, it can tell you how to create wealth and then how to expand upon that wealth. Is that what this is about? Am I correct in that?
LONG: Exactly. One of the things in most churches, one of the things -- Dale is quite modest, but his whole theme at his church is empowerment where you have various seminars, where you bring in people who know how to invest, what's going on and to take people from A to B all the way to Z and have them follow up. And you can hold them accountable in certain things which various times you cannot hold a person accountable within the church.
As they're growing, you get mentors and partners and put them in groups and you can basically follow what they're doing.
LEMON: You know, you teach women to be independent also. You know, stress the right relationship in marriage. But reading about this and looking at some of the blogs and on-line, women are very excited about this. I had women tweeting going in 2010, the Focus 2010 are coming. What's in it for women? Why is it so important to them?
BRONNER: Because women are leaders are well. We have so many women now that are heads of households.
LEMON: That seems to be the number one thing they're talking about though now?
BRONNER: Absolutely. Because they have to know how to lead. They realized that they have not -- they don't necessarily have men in their life that they can depend on and they got children that they have to care for. So they have to prepare themselves. And what the church does -- I don't think that we are trying to substitute -- we are a supplement to what external things that they can get in terms of financial preparation and empowerment. We're a supplement to that, not necessarily a substitute.
LEMON: And that's because women, too, even though they may be married, but usually they take care of the finances, at least the budgeting part of it. So to them, something that stresses economic empowerment, that's important to them, bishop.
LONG: It's very important to them. Not only in providing for their children. But what I'm finding is in training the children at the same time, here's a new paradigm, here's a new way to start looking at things different. Here's how to start building your financial portfolio and break some of the habits that we've had generationally and how we amassed power and finance and those kinds of things so we can have a future.
LEMON: And you know, the reason -- one reason that we're talking to you is because of the economic times now, minorities especially, some people are affected really a lot harder more than others by this. And I think you say that you want to help, especially those people in these times.
LONG: Exactly. When you look at the unemployment figure and you look at what's happening here in Georgia with about 12 percent or so, we're in the 10 to 12. I had the labor secretary of the church, the commissioner not too long ago is higher in the African-American community. So we got to work harder. We encourage people to start their own business, helm them go through the steps of putting together a business proposal.
Because with all that, we can't just look for the government to provide jobs, instead one of the greatest things that's happening now is entrepreneurs, companies are being birthed in the midst of crisis.
LEMON: Like what both of you guys say, you can't be so churchy in church, you have to teach outside of the box in church and not just about god and religion, but how to take care of yourself. Bishop Bronner, thank you. And of course, thank you, as usual.
LONG: Thank you. Bless you, sir.
LEMON: Good to see you again. And best of luck to both of you.
Perhaps -- maybe it was a sympathy vote. Maybe these two men of the ministry here could tell us what happened. But a man who died while campaigning for mayor wins big. So what happens now?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We continue this program with CNN contributor Steve Perry. He's looking for ways to transform education in America. Tonight, he takes us to the Manchester School of Technology in New Hampshire where an alternative program is keeping kids in school. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (on camera): Here in New Hampshire, take a look at how one community solve one of America's challenging issues, dropouts.
So as you went through school, did you miss a lot of school?
CHRIS GRAY, STUDENT, MANCHESTER SCHOOL OF TECHNOLOGY: When I started high school, yes, I did.
PERRY: What's a lot to you?
GRAY: I was tardy every day. Suspended every other time I went to school. I wanted to go to school.
PERRY: Really?
GRAY: I was just caught in the cycle of like screwing up and being suspended.
PERRY: What do you feel makes this program successful?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say it's the students are engaged. They're actually doing. It's real life learning.
PERRY: So now, you're here. How old are you?
GRAY: I'm 21 now.
PERRY: 21 and you're going to graduate from high school?
GRAY: Yes. June '10, I graduated.
PERRY: Now, I hear that you have an interest in education?
GRAY: Yes.
PERRY: What do you want to do?
GRAY: I want to teach.
PERRY: How cool is that?
GRAY: It's pretty cool actually.
PERRY: What's the reason you want to be a teacher?
GRAY: They're the people who had the most impact on me. Made me turn my life around basically.
PERRY: So when you started this project, why did you choose 2012 as the time in which for you in New Hampshire there will be no more dropouts. It's quite an edict. GOV. JOHN LYNCH, NEW HAMPSHIRE: And it's very, very aggressive -- very aggressive to say by 2012 we have as a goal. Because I really think you need to have a goal, you need to have a line in the sand. And also it needs to be aggressive. Because if it's aggressive, people get excited about it. They'll approach you with the sense of urgency.
If I had said let's do it in 2020, you know, people might have yawned and said it was good, but there would have been no sense of urgency to get it done. Now there is. And what we see here in New Hampshire is everybody working together.
PERRY (voice-over): Steve Perry, CNN, Concord, New Hampshire.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Steve. Every weekend on this program, we try to bring you interesting news items you missed. Tonight, the first family's taxes. The president and the first lady made $5.5 million last year. They made $5.5 million last year mostly from the sale of the President's books. They paid 1.8 million in federal income tax. The Obamas gave $329,000 to 40 charities including $50,000 each to the Humanitarian Organization Care and the United Negro College Fund. Now, the President also donated his $1.4 million Nobel Peace Prize winnings or award money to 10 charities.
Voters in Tracey City, Tennessee turned out this week to choose a new mayor, right? The incumbent lost by a better than three-to-one margin to town councilman Robin Geary despite the fact that Geary died a month ago. His widow wasn't surprised shown here in this photo wasn't surprised though. The council -- the town council will now choose the new mayor.
I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern as CNN's "SPECIAL INVESTIGATION" starts right now.
