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Some Flights Resume in Europe; Closing the Gender Gap; Small Business Success

Aired April 20, 2010 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's a professor at the University of Iceland, one of the renowned experts on volcanoes in Iceland. And he tells me over the last three days, their readings show that the eruptions have weakened compared to the first three days.

So his quote to me was, "That all means that is usually a good sign the worst is over." However, he also emphasizes there are no guarantees. Either way, it's still erupting, spewing ash, and that's one of the things we've seen in the country.

Most people, about 95 percent of the population, totally not affected by this, because the winds haven't blown to the west, where the capital is, Reykjavik, where the airport is. The airport has been open, full operations. But a small percentage of the population of 315,000 here in Iceland live to the south and to the east of the volcano. That's where the winds have been going, that's where the ash has been going, and that's where we were going yesterday to get a look at it.

It was a really nice day yesterday; cold, but sunny. And we saw this great curtain in front of us, and we literally drove into the curtain, and there it turned into night.

It almost looked like a solar eclipse with the ash coming from the sky. It was like a snowstorm like I'm in right now, but just ash. It got in your eyes and your hair. We wore masks.

People have not been forced to evacuate, but they've been told that if they're staying there to wear the masks. But it's just unbelievable because everything becomes a muddy muck. And there's a lot of farmers there and a lot of livestock, and farms have been ruined because they've now had at least two or three of these ash storms that have come down.

And it's not like you can start cleaning up right away, because you don't know how long this volcano will last and how much more ash you will get. So it's a very difficult time for the landowners in that portion of Iceland -- Ali.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Gary, you made an interesting point there, that people in Reykjavik sort of not affected by this. This plume seems to be going up and over, you know, some of the parts of Iceland. And, in fact, the airport in Reykjavik is operational, and you can get there and get to other places from where you are. TUCHMAN: Well, that's right. I mean, you can fly from Reykjavik to New York to Boston. That's where Iceland Air flies their nonstop flights every day. Everything's been operating.

You also, throughout this whole thing -- this is something that a lot of people don't know -- you can actually get from the United States to Europe, but there's a limited number of seats. They've been flying from the United States, Iceland Air, to Reykjavik Airport, and then to Norway the entire time. There has been a way to get to Europe from North America via Iceland.

So that's the irony. I mean, this mountain behind me which you can't see right now because of the snow is causing all this trouble across the world, but here on this island nation it's been causing almost no problems except for a tiny percentage of the population just to the south and east of us.

VELSHI: All right. Gary, just tell me, to be clear, can you see that that volcano is still spewing ash?

TUCHMAN: You know, the cliche, Ali, that, you know, when you go to any city, people like to say, just stick around a while, the weather will change? I mean, that's a cliche, but here it's literally true, because two hours ago, we could see the volcano perfectly and we saw the ash coming up and spewing.

So we know it is. And we also spoke to that expert, the volcano expert, who flew up there earlier and said the same thing. But that's the important thing to tell you today, is that for the last three days, he is seeing that it has improved from the previous three days, and that, he says, is a very good sign, but no guarantees that it's over.

VELSHI: All right. Gary Tuchman, quite possibly CNN's heartiest journalist. I hadn't seen him in this environment before, at a volcano with a snowstorm, now I think I've seen everything.

Gary, good to see you. Stay safe, and wear a mask if you go anywhere near that volcano.

All right. A woman's work is never done or equally compensated. The gender pay gap still exists in 2010. It's bigger than some of you may think.

We're going to examine why coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. These days everybody is paying close attention to their paychecks. However, even today, women are seeing nearly 25 percent less in their paychecks than men are, probably a number you've heard before.

Today, President Obama is acknowledging National Equal Pay Day. Basically, we're a quarter of the way through the year, and women get paid a quarter less than men do. Let me just show you this another way.

So we know that women get paid 77 cents on the dollar. So, here's a man. From January to December of 2009, he earned money all year. Let's say he earned $50,000.

If you're a woman, to earn the same $50,000 took until today, April 20th, because you're earning 77 cents on the dollar, 75 percent. Obviously this is not in every single job, but it is still an accepted statistic.

Let me break down the numbers for you. According to the Census, women make 77 cents compared to men who make a dollar.

Let's talk about women's pay over the years. This will show it to you.

From 1995, here's where we look at this. Do you know what? I don't really understand that. Let me see if I can see what that says.

All right. Women's pay -- I mean, I can tell you this much from the graph -- it's gotten better over the years, but it is not doing nearly as well as men's.

OK. Here we go. Red is men's and, you know, I don't even know what this is. Let's just skip that entirely.

I want to talk to some people about this, because that's really what you want to hear.

Marcia Greenberger joins me now and CNN's Christine Romans to talk a little bit about this.

Marcia, let's talk about this. Are we making up? Because I think I've heard these figures before. I think this sounds familiar to me, that women make around 75 cents on a dollar, 77 cents on a dollar.

MARCIA GREENBERGER, CO-PRESIDENT, NATIONAL WOMEN'S LAW CENTER: You know, these are statistics that have been around, you're right, for a long time. It was 78 cents, now it's 77.

We're not making the progress we need to make. That's the bottom line.

It is excruciatingly slow. And let's be real about this. Especially in these tough economic times, women and men really rely on a woman's paycheck. The whole family gets cheated if women don't get equal pay.

VELSHI: OK. Let's talk about where we've made gains, though.

Women are as educated as men are now. As many women graduating with college degrees as men are. We have seen women representing fully half of the American workforce now, something we haven't seen since the days of World War II. We've seen all sorts of employment gains, so, Christine, why does this one persist?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting, because we have to ask the question why? Why is there a gap? Even when it's the exact same job, the same job, there is this gap. Why is that?

Does discrimination, play a role there? Does the fact that women maybe have to drop out for a time and so they lose some job time in the middle? Does that play a role there?

There are some labor economists, Ali, who have told us that women don't negotiate for raises the same way that men do. That's a small little -- that's a few cents there. Trying to figure out how you come up with those cents and how you try to narrow that gap.

One thing about the recession that's very interesting, it's been called the "mancession" and the "hecession" because so many high-paid manufacturing and construction jobs have disappeared. Actually, it leaves women with fewer choices in the workplace. Because if your partner or spouse loses that job, now you're even more tied to the money that you're bringing in and are less likely to take risks.

So, on several different levels, I think, there have been interesting developments. Even as that number has stayed 78 cents or 77 cents, there are interesting developments happening within those numbers.

VELSHI: Yes, sure.

Well, Marcia, what's the issue here? When I'm talking about just getting paid for the same job, we still know that that disparity exists. Is this not illegal?

GREENBERGER: Well, that's a good question. It is illegal, but the question is, can women enforce the law? Do employers pay attention to the law? Do they even review what their pay practices are to make sure what they're doing is fair?

You could say women need to be better negotiators. And I'm sure that that's the case in some circumstances. But what about the employer who has the information about what women actually get paid compared to their male counterparts?

Often, women have no idea what their coworker is getting paid. And an employer doesn't allow it to be discussed.

There's a new law, the Paycheck Fairness Act, that's pending. It passed the House. It's waiting to pass the Senate.

It would give women those kinds of negotiating tools. It would prevent them from being retaliated against if they tried to get better pay and tried to get that information and are turned down.

Just as was said, in these tough economic times, it's very, very hard to put the burden on a woman and say, you know, be out there, be aggressive. People are worried about aggravating their employer and keeping their job.

VELSHI: Sure. Christine makes this point all the time. If you are like Christine, a working mother, and you're called upon to work and you're in demand, it is tough for women out there to sit there and say, and by the way, at this critical point in my life where maybe I have a spouse who's unemployed or a house that's under water, I'm going to take you to task for what you're paying me.

I guess that is a really tough one to overcome, Christine.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Sorry. Go ahead, Christine.

ROMANS: And I agree with you completely, Marcia.

She's absolutely right. The employer does have the information.

In many cases, I think what they are worried about is their bottom line. If somebody is going to take a little less than what worth, fine. You know, but is that fair, A? Is it legal, B? Is it right? And is it good for society?

Women have an eight percent unemployment rate right now. Men have a 10 percent unemployment rate. On the surface, it's like, great, women are doing better than men in the recession. But I think all of us agree that no one is really doing great in the recession.

Your job security is down. You have fewer choices. We hear this all the time from people who say they have fewer choices, they're worried about flex time.

They're told again and again, make sure you have face time at work, make sure that you are always telling your boss what your most recent contribution was because you don't want to end up on a bean counter's list of a job to lose. And that's a lot of pressure for many women. It makes it harder to go out and be aggressive on the raise or the promotion.

VELSHI: All right. I think we need to study this a little further. Not study. I mean, we've studied it enough, but I think we need to examine it a little further.

This strikes me as a whole discussion that we're having about financial regulation reform. There are a lot of rules on the books. There just aren't enough cops on the beat for companies to know that they actually have to this do stuff. So maybe we need to spend a little time on this.

We'll invite you both to participate in that discussion with us.

Christine Romans, my co-host on "YOUR $$$$$," and Marcia Greenberger, the co-president of the National Women's Law Center in Washington. Thank you both for joining us and talking to us about this.

GREENBERGER: Thank you.

ROMANS: Thank you.

VELSHI: All right. One family thought their dreams were dashed when the bank wouldn't give them a loan, and strangely, that actually became the key to their success. We're going to check in. There he is.

Tom Foreman is on the CNN Express, looking for stories that are helping "Build Up America." He's got a great one for us after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Automated hay loaders, that's keeping one family afloat during these hard economic times. But there is more to this story, and we're going to go to Tom Foreman. There he is, standing in front of my beloved CNN Express in Pratt, Kansas.

What have you got for us, Tom?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we moved down the road now. Now we're in Greensburg, Kansas. Pratt is just up the road here. We were in Kingman before that.

Here's an interesting thing about Kansas, Ali, that I'll be you know, but a lot of our viewers may not. Many states survive by really aggressively recruiting outside business, whether from other states or from other countries, to come in and set up shop. That creates new opportunities, new jobs, and some of them are very, very successful at that.

Kansas is not one of them. Kansas gets very little outside help when it comes to building things up. That's why they rely on people inside the state. And their initiative and the story we have today is of one family that has really taken that bull by the horns, and they are succeeding in a big way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): In a shower of sparks and hot metal, Terry and Debbie Schrag are building success at Canonball. Ten years ago they opened shop to make one of Terry's inventions, a fully automated hay loader, and they are turning them out as fast as they can.

(on camera): Why do you think your business is doing well when so many others aren't?

TERRY SCHRAG, CANNONBALL: Well, I think, number one, is we have an excellent product. And we have personal contact with almost everybody we sell to.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But there's more. The Schrags could not get a loan when they started, so they paid for everything. That kept them from getting too big, too fast, or sinking money into buildings or help, and it prepared them for hard times.

(on camera): So, you didn't have the loan money to work with, but you also didn't have the debt to be saddled with.

DEBBIE SCHRAG, CANNONBALL: That's correct. With us, since we've always worked out of our pocket and always made our cash flow work, I think we weren't hit with that when all the banks started tightening up on their money.

FOREMAN (voice-over): At Wichita State, the Small Business Development Center says such homegrown success stories are critical to this state's rebound, because, David Mace says, only a tiny fraction of new jobs come from out-of-state companies moving in.

(on camera): So, what makes the difference between a small business that succeeds and one that does not?

DAVID MAY, KANSAS SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: I think the biggest thing is probably customer focus. And it really starts with, I think, identifying a real need that exists and going after it, and meeting that need and really taking an outside-in approach to the market.

FOREMAN (voice-over): He should know. Back in the late '50s, two of the school's graduates borrowed $600 to start Pizza Hut. And 20 years later, sold it for $300 million.

Canonball is not that big, but it provides 18 full-time jobs with $3 million in annual sales and --

T. SCHRAG: If I was 20 years younger, I'd double the size of it.

FOREMAN (on camera): It can be that big? You have that much business?

T. SCHRAG: Oh, yes. I could double it.

FOREMAN (voice-over): For a farm equipment maker in the middle of a recession --

D. SCHRAG: Come on, Beauty (ph).

FOREMAN: -- not a bad harvest.

T. SCHRAG: Beauty (ph), come here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: In addition to all those full-time jobs, Ali, they have four part-time jobs there. They sell all across the country, largely based just on their reputation as a great maker of these bale loaders. And when they're not making those, they're making grain wagons which are used by all the wheat farmers out here.

It really is a successful business, Ali, that they have built up despite all the obstacles, and have done very, very well with.

VELSHI: Tom, it's great. These stories are great because we spend a lot of time having to talk about the tough economic stories, and they are very real. And I've spent many months on that bus having to seen them first hand. It's great that you're out there. You're really looking for these stories of success across America.

FOREMAN: Oh, yes. And they're not that hard to find really.

I mean, when I was talking to Mr. Schrag yesterday, one of the things he said is that he truly believes the basics of bouncing back from this economy can be applied anywhere in this country, they're really basics that a lot of us know from heart -- come up with a good product, stick with it, hire good people, and work hard.

VELSHI: Yes. Now that last one you can't escape.

FOREMAN: He said from the beginning he's done the work of two or three people. It makes a big difference.

VELSHI: All right. Take care of that bus. I miss it. I'm going to join you one of these days.

FOREMAN: We'll keep your seat ready for you when you come back.

VELSHI: Thank you, sir.

Tom Foreman with the CNN Express, "Building Up America."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

VELSHI: All right. For almost a week now, we've been talking about planes that can't fly, airports bulging with stranded travelers.

Coming up next, an airport that is begging for flyers -- begging for flyers -- no volcanic activity involved in this. No apparent reason even to exist.

Drew Griffin joins me with a fascinating special investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Well, it turns out that the cardinal rule of real estate applies to airports, too. Location is everything.

Big cities have big, busy airports. Small towns have small, sleepy airports. And Clarksburg, West Virginia, you've got to see this airport to believe it.

Drew Griffin saw it. He walked around it. He flew out of it. And he joins me now to tell us all about it.

Why would this airport be newsworthy?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: I'll tell you why.

Number one, the federal government has no money. Number two, we're giving it to this airport. And number three, nobody uses this airport. And if you don't believe me, watch this piece.

VELSHI: All right. We're going -- we're having a problem getting that. A fascinating story. We're going to queue it up.

Tell me what the story is.

GRIFFIN: Here's the story. All these tiny airports all across the country, of which this airport is one of them --

VELSHI: Right.

GRIFFIN: Gets money from the federal government based on how many passengers they can prove took off or landed at their airports, and that's where the math gets really tricky.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): This airport near Clarksburg, West Virginia, boasts quick check-ins, free, accessible parking and convenient baggage claim, which is not surprising, because the planes don't exactly queue up at North Central West Virginia Airport. You can park here for free. You can park right next to the terminal. You can park all day and watch, and you may not see a single plane. And if you did stay all day, you'd catch just three commercial departures, carrying on average six passengers.

But, still, the federal government pours money into this airport, $30 million to lengthen the runway in 1999. Last year, $1.6 million in stimulus cash and for the last two years, an extra million dollars, money given to this and any small airport, that can show it gets at least 10,000 passengers in a single year. Get just one passenger less, than magic 10,000, and you'll get a measly $150,000. It's an all-or- nearly nothing program that government waste watchdog Senator Tom Coburn says could only be devised in one place.

SEN. TOM COBURN, (R) OKLAHOMA: Congress did it. We created the incentive to kind of weasel on it so you can get more money. And it's exacerbated now because of the economic downturn.

GRIFFIN: Weaseling because at tiny airports across the country like North Central West Virginia, airport managers do just about anything they can to hit the jackpot of 10,000 passengers and get the government's money. And that includes free flights.

SUZANNE PIERSON, TOOK FREE FLIGHT: It was just a little --

GRIFFIN: Ad that said --

S. PIERSON: In the newspaper that said free flights. They were trying to meet their quota and they were, like, 300 passengers short of the -- of the --

GRIFFIN: So literally a free flight, coming out of a free flight?

PIERSON: Yes. It was awesome.

GRIFFIN: Last December, Suzanne Pierson saw an ad in the local paper for a free sightseeing flight.

PIERSON: This was quite -- quite a thrill.

GRIFFIN: The local news was there, too. Catching her, her grandson Donovan, and hundreds of others flying a chartered 757 above Bridgeport and Clarksburg. And where did the flight go?

DONOVAN PIERSON, TOOK FREE FLIGHT: It went everywhere.

GRIFFIN: Actually, it went nowhere. Just up and down. Suzanne and her grandson became part of the airport's 10,000-passenger-a-year count. Dozens of airports have been chasing that number as well, in Tierney, Nebraska, residents paid $15.00 for aerial tours of the cities Christmas lights. In Altoona, Pennsylvania they offered free ten minutes flights. And back in Clarksburg, airport director Rick Rock even gets money to fly school students to Washington, D.C., for the day to bump up his passenger count. How is that paid for?

RICK ROCK, AIRPORT DIRECTOR: It was through the contributions through the Board of Education.

GRIFFIN: This is the restaurant. It's closed. Busy airport. The airport just got a separate $150,000 grant from the FAA to -- well, you guessed it -- to promote itself. No planes, no restaurant. Now consider this, those three scheduled departures a day, they do go to Washington. But all stop in Morgantown, 35 miles away.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): How you doing?

GRIFFIN: I took the flight myself.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Boarding, a quick ten-minute flight. 5,000 feet is the cruising altitude.

GRIFFIN: And no sooner were we reaching altitude, we were preparing to land.

(UNIDENTIFED FEMALE): Lady and gentlemen, welcome.

GRIFFIN: Every single person who leaves Clarksburg has to take that ten-minute flight. The man who runs the Clarksburg Airport said he's proud of what it's done to get as much money as possible.

ROCK: We had an economic benefit study analysis done; it said the economic impact for this community is $300 million, so I differently think there's no question that we need this airport.

GRIFFIN: But how can you say that when you've got three flights a day? You can go to Morgantown, you can go to Pittsburgh, and most people do. And obviously the community is not flocking in here?

ROCK: Well, I think I see that they have in the past. And I'm an optimistic person to think they will in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: That's incredible.

VELSHI: I mean, did you come across a lot of airports like this?

GRIFFIN: Do you know what, nobody knows really how many there are. Senator Coburn passed an amendment saying, listen, we need an accounting.

VELSHI: Right. Because nobody knows how many of those airports with more than 10,000 passengers are fudging it.

GRIFFIN: How many get the FAA money. How many get stimulus money. How many are getting all this kind of promotion money, Education Department money. There's all this money, Ali, as you knowing in.

VELSHI: Is anybody defending this? Anybody in a position of power defending this?

GRIFFIN: You know, not really, other than, you know, every community deserves an airport regardless of how small, you can't affect rural airports. Two airports, they're 35 miles apart.

VELSHI: That's incredible.

GRIFFIN: Pick one at least, because you have two sets of TSAs, you have two sets of management and you're building runways. It's unnecessary.

VELSHI: What a story. All right, well, thank you for that. Drew Griffin bringing us that very interesting story.

All right, there's always some kind of gem coming from the mouth of Donald Trump, to his personal portfolio, to the real estate theme, and to China's economy. He has governed all the bases in an interview with Poppy Harlow; she is joining us right after this with some of that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Colorful character to say the least, but before Donald Trump was ever into reality shows, he was into real estate and investments and he was basically making a mint until that stopped. Recently Mr. Trump made some time for CNNMONEY.com's Poppy Harlow and as usual, Poppy used that time well. Hey, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Hi, Ali. I tried. You know, it's interesting, you talk to the Donald and I didn't know he was going to open up as much as he did. We started off with sort of the hard- hitting issues, is the commercial real estate market, the downfall there is going to be as bad as housing, then he got on to China, which he already said on that, but we'll start with housing. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW (voice-over): In terms of commercial real estate in general, the fear is that it will be even worse than the housing fallout. Do you think it's possible?

DONALD TRUMP, CHMN. & PRES., THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: No, I don't think it will be anywhere near.

HARLOW: Really.

TRUMP: I think it will be severe, but nothing, nothing will be like the housing. It almost imploded our whole economy. The housing was a disaster, and it looks like it's now starting to come back. I see house prices are starting to go up, and I think it's a great time for people to go out and buy a house or buy an apartment or do something. You'll never have jobs because real estate is the biggest industry in the country, You're never have building, you are never going to have anything built unless the banks start loosening up and they're very hard to get money from.

HARLOW: And you said the government has to get more involved than it already is?

TRUMP: When I say get involved, I don't mean get involved in terms of putting up more money, I mean getting involved by making the banks loan money to the developments. The problem is with all of the billions and trillions even, that the banks have taken in; they're not putting the money out. And if they don't put out the money, you are not going to have job creation.

HARLOW: Does this country need to be more business friendly in terms of tax incentives for companies to do business here?

TRUMP: I think we are the most friendly, this country is so friendly and the biggest problem we have, like, with China, is that they're sucking money out of this country, hey, look; I know lots of folks in China. They think we are the dumbest son of a bitches in the world, all right? They think our representatives don't know what they are doing. They laugh at us behind our back. They are taking money out and then they loan it back to us.

HARLOW: Green jobs creation, has been touted by the president since he was campaigning. Is it a realistic goal in this country to see massive employment thanks to green jobs? Would you put your money into alternative energy investments now?

TRUMP: Well I think I'm all for green and I'm all for all the things --

HARLOW: There's one thing to be for them and to put your money there, does it make sense?

TRUMP: The problem that we have, as an example, they talk about saving energy and everything else and they talk about let's not hurt the atmosphere. China's not doing that. They talk like they are, but they're not. India is not doing that. Do you think in India they go and say oh, we have to put scrubbers on our chimneys so the coal doesn't pollute the earth? They don't care. They don't care. And it's putting our companies at a huge disadvantage and I think something has to be done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: As you heard, Ali, pretty tough on China there, whether it's them importing to us, buying it then buying up our debt or whether it's how China and India handle global warming, Ali, I was surprised to hear that he was that critical of the way that they do business.

VELSHI: Yes and he seemed critical both of China and of the U.S. for what he seemed to imply as being suckered into that continued relationship.

HARLOW: Absolutely.

VELSHI: Very interesting interview. Poppy, good to see you; thank you for I appreciate that. Poppy Harlow, from CNNMONEY.com, you can see her on CNNMONEY.com frequently.

Checking some top stories that we are following right now. The spotlight is back on the collapse of Lehman Brothers. Top financial officials on Capitol Hill today saying the Lehman debacle is proof if any is needed that more tougher regulation of the financial market is needed. Among those testifying, treasury secretary Tim Geithner and Federal Reserve chairman, Ben Bernanke. Lehman's bankruptcy triggered the worldwide financial crisis.

The Obama administration plans to change Title IX, the 1972 law that mandates gender equity in sports at schools that get federal funds. Universities will no longer be allowed to use only student surveys to determine female student's interests or ability in sports. Woman sports advocates pointed out that a low response to those surveys could be interpreted as a lack of interest in sports when that might not actually be the case.

And in Europe, planes are taking off, again, finally despite the massive volcanic cloud. Several big airports have reopened, bringing at least some relief to stranded passengers, and right now we're hearing that some flights are resuming out of London airports. We're going to check into that and get back to you very shortly.

Where is he? Is he there? There he is. Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent, looking a little surprised that he's on TV.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How are you?

VELSHI: Good to see you, Ed, we're going to come back in just a second. He's got lots to tell us. So just wait right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: OK. A very strange situation I'm not understanding. Let's go to Paula Newton, she's at Heathrow Airport. I'm understanding that there are 26 flights in the air toward the United Kingdom, but that the airspace where they're going has not been opened up yet by -- by civilian airspace authorities. What's the story here?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, British Airways is telling us that they put 26 long-haul flights in the air that includes flights from the west coast, Ali, flights from India, flights from Asia, and other flights from North America. They put 26 flights, possibly more than 8,000 people in the air, with the hopes to land behind me at Heathrow, or at London Gatwick, realizing that this airspace is closed.

They are saying they are waiting for a window of opportunity to land. If they cannot land here, they will land at a European airport close by. What does this mean behind the scenes? This is B.A. playing hardball. They have put 8,000 passengers in the air telling them that they expect to land in London, but not sure if they are actually going to. B.A. has been furious about the way this has been handled. They do not believe that air corridors through Britain cannot be created. They want to land here desperately. We're going to wait a few hours here, Ali, and see what happens.

VELSHI: Wow.

NEWTON: I think we have to understand these passengers are safe, but in terms of aviation travel, this has got to be unprecedented.

VELSHI: Yes.

NEWTON: When you are telling 8,000 people that you don't know where they're going to land and where they are going to end up. British Airways continues to use that language with us and just as we are hopeful that a window of opportunity will open up. Ali, I remind you this airport officially is closed until at least 1:00 in the morning local time; it's almost 8:00 now, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. B.A. is saying that they will have another update at 9:00 pm. Lets go back a couple of days, British Airways flew an experimental flight and they took pictures and they measured before the flight went up and then they flew it and they brought it back down and then they took more pictures and their engineers analyzed it they came out with a very strong statement to say no damage, no problems, no danger, let us fly.

So, very interesting at this point I guess civilian authorities in Britain, aerospace authorities, have got to be sitting there saying we have 26 planes headed toward us. We're going to have to make a call on this.

NEWTON: But really it's putting pressure on them and deciding, look, can you open up an air corridor that is safe or not? And they're putting pressure on them to be able to do that. And let's remember, what will most likely happen is many of these flights if not all of them will be diverted to Paris or to Brussels, to Madrid, airports that are open right now. But B.A. is intent on putting pressure on these aviation authorities and saying, come on, you can't open one corridor for us to get going and why, Ali? They are bleeding money by the minute, the British carriers here especially B.A. and companies like Virgin, the only major European airlines now that have not been able to get flights in the air as of today.

VELSHI: All right. We'll continue to follow that story. I suppose if you are going to London from Asia or India or the west coast of the U.N., maybe you will be happier being in Amsterdam or Paris or somewhere will you are closer. What an interesting story. We'll continue to follow the story. Paula Newton, in London.

Ed Henry standing by at the White House. Wait, wait, you're not at the White House. Where are you? What are you sitting on?

HENRY: No, I'm not. I'm actually at the Politics Online Conference.

VELSHI: How fun.

HENRY: It's in downtown Washington, it's called the Politics Online Conference. It's affiliated with George Washington University. I've got a cool panel here with Chad Peterson, a Virginia State Senator, and Congressman Mike Condit, who represents Silicon Valley out in California. And Sandy Jackson, I'm going to embarrass her a little bit, because she told me before this panel she's moderating 400 or 500 people in the audience, that she thinks you're a neat dresser and that you coordinate it really well, Ali. Do you want to add anything?

SANDY JACKSON: I do. Ali, you are sharp every single day. When we're watching CNN in my office, we go, wow, that guy, he is incredible!

HENRY: Come on, you're just saying that to make him feel good.

JACKSON: No, honest to goodness, you're fantastic every day.

VELSHI: Do you know what, if she's that astute --

HENRY: This panel is starting to go off the rails, Ali. But you know people are talking about it, and the congressman was just telling us how much he's been using, you know, facebook, twitter, and social media to engage his constituents. You want to give us a quick, 20, 30 seconds to tell us how it's working

CONGRESSMAN MIKE CONDIT: Well it's working, because the first day I did twitter, I heard from a Senator that ran for Congress and didn't win, criticized me for the use of what's called earmarks. And, you know, I think earmarks are perfectly good, and being criticized for $300,000 earmarks.

HENRY: Right.

CONDIT: I researched his stuff, and came back and just complimented him on his expenditure of $3 million for one project, $5 million on another. They were good projects.

HENRY: Ali, we've been talking about how, you know, for these politicians all around the country, their lives are open books. They always have been, but now because of the social media, you mentioned the projects that are out there and all this openness and transparency can be a good thing but also presents some challenges, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. You and I have realized the benefits, not so many challenges from doing it. What happens now? You've talked about how Republicans tend to use it more than -- than Democrats do? Robert Gibbs got on twitter and I think he had, I don't know, how many tens of thousands of people he had within a day. Is this sort of a useful tool for legislating?

HENRY: Well, you know, that's something I was just about to ask him. And we will, because, you're right, in recent years we've seen Republicans using the social media a little bit more effectively than Democrats and for a long time Democrats thought that they were sort of leading the charge, if you will. And now we've seen very much more aggressive push from the White House, Robert Gibbs you know using twitter a lot getting the White House message out, organizing for America, the president's grassroots message, doing it from outside of the White House. Both sides are pretty engaged on it, and you played "empire state of mind" on the way in to the segment. Jay-Z, of course, I hear people laughing.

VELSHI: It's the new theme for my team, right? That's what they played as the Yankees --

HENRY: That's right.

VELSHI: Won the World Series.

HENRY: Ali and I both root for the Yankees. They are coming to the White House on Monday because they won the World Series. I see some people groaning out there, I think they are not Yankees' fans. Some are and some are not.

JACKSON: White Sox.

HENRY: We've got a White Sox fan right here along with the president of the United States, who is a White Sox fan. I'm going out on a limb, but when the President Obama welcomes Derek Jeter and the Yankees on Monday at the White House, there is going to be a bunch of White Sox jokes, you know about, because he threw out the first pitch at the nationals' game last week, he had a nationals' jacket on, but he put on a White Sox cap.

JACKSON: He had to. He had to. He could not have gone back to Chicago without it.

HENRY: He was kind of hiding it. So much for transparency, I guess.

JACKSON: That is right. VELSHI: Ed, have fun there, an astute crowd you are with, especially that woman beside you commenting on my dressing. Great to talk to you all, enjoy the discussion.

HENRY: He's calling you astute because of what you said.

JACKSON: Thank you.

VELSHI: Have a good time. Sandy Jackson was the one that said I dressed well. She's very astute. We'll talk to you in a little bit.

All right. A story we have been following this afternoon, Civil Rights matriarch Dorothy Height passed away this morning at the age of 98. If you don't know about her, you should. Her accomplishments are astounding. I'll give you more on her life after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Well, she's a founding matriarch of the Civil Rights Movement. A change maker in American history. Dorothy Height a crusader for racial justice and gender equality died this morning at the age of 98. Her list of accomplishments that Ms. Height achieved in her lifetime is unparalleled. She was the president of the National Council for Negro Women for 40 years.

She helped organize freedom schools at the height of the segregation battle in the south, and her work was key in the struggles for school desegregation, voting rights and employment opportunities and public accommodations. And add to that Ms. Height was awarded the presidential Medal of Freedom, that was the highest civilian honor back in 1994 and the Congressional gold medal in 2004.

Among her other many honors she has 36 honorary doctorates from colleges and universities including Harvard and Princeton, and as we look at her legacy, she charges all of us to work toward making a difference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOROTHY HEIGHT: There's a lot of work for us to do to make freedom and equality a reality. And that each of us can make a difference.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: And Miss Height has certainly she made that difference. The question is who will carry that torch? I'll have some more to say about that in my "X-Y-Z."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Time now for "The X-Y-Z of It." I want to spend a moment on some unfinished business. Not the kind of business I usually cover. This one's more important. Nothing less than liberty and justice for all that was Dorothy Height's life work. In a statement marking her death at the age of 98 this morning, President Obama calls Height the god mother of the Civil Rights Movement.

In fact, she found her voice decades earlier. Protesting lynching in the new deal days. Generations of African-Americans and women of all races owe a debt to Dorothy Height. Whether they know it or not. But through her work, though her work is now done, there's a long way to go. Thankfully new generations have produced new leaders to face new challenges.

I want to leave you with the words of Dorothy Height herself, quote; each of us can make a difference. You don't have to be an icon to stand up for injustice. You don't have to win the presidential Medal of Freedom to speak for freedom and you don't have to wait for someone else to do it for you."

Here's another of my favorite Dorothy Height's quote, quote, if the time is not ripe, we will have to ripen the time. That's my "X-Y-Z of It" and now it's time for "RICK'S LIST."

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Good stuff, Ali, thanks so much.