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President Obama Honors Teacher of the Year; Oil Slick Nears Shoreline; U.S. Military May be Brought in to Deal With Oil Leak
Aired April 29, 2010 - 13:55 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: We need to interrupt that story. Here's the president of the United States at the White House.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- Appropriately so. So, I hate to intrude on it, but before we begin, I do want to speak briefly to the American people about the recent BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
I've been receiving frequent briefings from members of my cabinet and White House staff, including an update last night on the additional breach and another update this morning. And while BP is ultimately responsible for funding the cost of response and cleanup operations, my administration will continue to use every single available resource at our disposal, including potentially the Department of Defense to address the incident.
Earlier today, DHS secretary Napolitano announced that this incident is of national significance, and the Department of Interior has announced that they will be sending S.W.A.T. teams to the Gulf to inspect all platforms and rigs. And I have ordered the secretaries of Interior and Homeland Security as well as administrator Lisa Jackson of the Environmental Protection Agency, to visit the site on Friday to ensure that BP and the entire U.S. government is doing everything possible not just to respond to this incident, but also to determine its cause. And I've been in contact with all the governors of the states that may be affected by this accident.
Now, earlier this week, Secretary Napolitano and Salazar laid out the next steps for a thorough investigation in to what precipitated this event. I'm sure there may be a few science teachers here who have been following this issue closely with their classes. And if you guys have any suggestions, please let us know.
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: And that's the real reason why all of you are here. Because you are great teachers, engaging your students in the world around you. So, I want to start by congratulating all of you for your extraordinary achievement. We could not be prouder, and I had occasion to meet each and every one individually. You could not ask for a better bunch, and it made me want to go back to school.
(LAUGTHER) OBAMA: Maybe not take the exams but -- but you could just tell these are people who love their work.
I want to acknowledge our wonderful Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan -
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: -- who is your biggest booster, day in and day out, as well as my good friend and a teacher herself, Dr. Jill Biden, who is here.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: I also want to thank Senator Harkin, Representative Boswell, and Dennis Van Roquelle, president of the National Education Association, for their leadership and for joining us here today.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: So, to all the award winners, congratulations. We are thrilled to have you in what has been a long tradition here at the White House for nearly six decades. Through 12 presidential administrations, we gathered here to honor America's teachers and to celebrate your contribution to the life of our country. And we do this because we recognize the role that you play in sustaining our democracy, in creating the informed citizenry and engaged leaders that we need for our government, a government of and by and for the people.
And we do this because you're the key to our success in the global economy, preparing our kids to compete at a time when a nation's most valuable currency is the knowledge and skills of its people. And we do this because the impact you've had on all of our lives: pushing us, believing in us, insisting -- sometimes despite all evidence to the contrary -- that we have potential and that we have something worthy to contribute.
As President Kennedy once said, "Our progress as a nation can be no swifter than our progress in education." The human mind is our fundamental resource, and it's all of you who we entrust every day with that resource and that responsibility.
And that's why as president I'm committed to doing every single thing that I can do to support your work, to create better standards and assessments that you can use in your classrooms, to make critical investments in education at every level from early childhood education through college, and to recruit and develop and reward excellent teachers. And it's why through our recovery efforts we've provided emergency aid that saved the jobs of more than 400,000 teachers and other education jobs, and why I believe these efforts must continue.
(APPLAUSE)
I believe these efforts must continue. The states face severe budget shortfalls that put hundreds of thousands of jobs at risk. We need and our children need our teachers in the classroom. We need your passion and your patience, your skill and experience, your determination to reach every single child, the very qualities that define this year's Teacher of the Year, Sarah Brown Wessling, from Johnston High School in Johnston, Iowa.
So, congratulations, Sarah.
(APPLAUSE)
Whether teaching basic writing to at-risk freshmen, or literary theory to advanced-placement seniors, Sarah writes, "I see a story in every learner, unique and yearning to be read." That's why she creates individualized podcasts for each student with extensive feedback on their papers, prompting one parent to report that his own writing had improved just by listening to Sarah's comments to his daughter -- to his daughter.
(LAUGHTER)
Sarah also helped develop 15 new courses this year alone, taking into account a wide array of interests and learning styles. And her students don't just write five-paragraph essays, but they write songs, public service announcements, film story boards, even grant proposals for their own not-for-profit organizations.
One of her students reports that in Sarah's class, "No discussion was fruitless, no assignment was pointless, and not one day was boring." And I'm not sure I could have said that when I was in school.
And all of this is in addition to her work mentoring other teachers, organizing a statewide teaching symposium, helping design Iowa's core curriculum, serving as president of the Iowa Council of Teachers of English, and much more.
Slow down.
(LAUGHTER)
Plus, she's got these three cute kids in front.
With Sarah as a teacher, good students become great students. Students who had been discouraged and disengaged have discovered a passion for learning. And many of her students have gone on to become teachers themselves, one of the best tributes any teacher could ask for.
In her application essay, Sarah wrote movingly about the achievements of several of her students, describing the transformation of one student as follows: "Instead of asking what, she asked, 'Why?' Instead of asking why, she asked, 'Why not?' Instead of asking why not, she asked, 'What if.'"
In honoring Sarah Brown Wessling and all of you, we also honor all those teachers across America who inspire students to ask, what if?. To enrich their lives and their prospects every single day.
But let's be clear. I think all the teachers here would agree with me, this is not the responsibility of teachers alone.
Our teachers can prepare the best lesson plans imaginable, but you all can't guarantee that your students will show up ready to learn. You can be there for them before school, after school, and during lunch, but you can't be there at night to make sure those assignments get done, or, in the morning, to make sure they're out of bed and to school on time. You can give your students all the encouragement in the world, but you can't give them the constant support and unconditional love that any need to succeed.
All of that is our job as parents. So, today, even as we honor America's teachers, let's not forget that we all have a responsibility to educate our children.
It is not just the job of schools. It's not just the job of teachers. But it's the job of our parents, it's the job of our communities, our places of worship.
The message that we send in terms of our children being curious and active and aspiring for excellence, that's a job that all of us have to take on. So, let's turn off the TV. Let's put away the video games.
(APPLAUSE)
Let's read to our kids once in a while. Let's make sure that homework is done and that they get a good night's sleep and a decent breakfast.
Let's reach out to their teachers and ask what we can do to help. Let's be partners with teachers to prepare our kids to lead productive, fulfilling lives.
In the end, I think Sarah put it best when she wrote simply, "My greatest contributions are my students." That's true of us as a society as well, that our greatest contribution is what we do for the next generation -- the sacrifices we make, the examples that we set, and all that we do to give them opportunities that we never dreamed of.
All of you have dedicated your lives to that work, and for that we honor you and we thank you, today and every day.
Congratulations, everybody.
And now it's my pleasure to introduce the 2010 Teacher of the Year, Sarah Brown Wessling, and invite her to say a few words. But first I'm going to give her the apple.
(APPLAUSE)
VELSHI: President Obama presenting the Teacher of the Year -- it's like a permanent apple, not the kind you eat, all right -- at the White House.
What did he say there? He said let's read to our kids, let's put away the video games, let's make sure the homework is done. Talking about education.
A fantastic teacher getting that award in Washington, the Teacher of the Year Award.
Listen, it's a new hour. We're a little behind because of the president's comments, but let me show you what I've got "On the Rundown."
Much bigger than we thought, that's the word coming in about that oil spill off the coast of Louisiana and Mississippi, and it is coming in to land faster than we thought. The oil spill has all the markings of an environmental disaster.
Now, part of the Gulf Coast is on alert, and the military is gearing up. We're going to check into that in a minute.
Plus, we've seen protests after protests against Arizona's tough new immigration law. Let's not forget the law was passing overwhelmingly. And lots of people on the other side of the battle. I'm going to talk to one of them, somebody who thinks this law is important and necessary. He was involved in putting it together. He'll defend it and say why it's important.
Also, starting today, the government is cracking down on airlines for long tarmac delays. But just in case you find yourself on the tarmac, I've got some fun activities for you and your co-passengers.
Listen up, airlines. I've even got a scavenger hunt. I'm going to tell you more about it in my "XYZ."
But right now, our big story, it's a fight against time and the tide in the Gulf Coast, where a new third leak has been discovered at the scene of that massive oil spill. A lot more oil is spewing into the water.
Plus, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal says it could reach the coast as early as today. He has declared a state of emergency.
Good reason, by the way. The Coast Guard has upped its estimate to 5,000 barrels a day. That's 210,000 gallons a day of oil spewing into the Gulf of Mexico, more than five times what they told us it was yesterday.
President Obama's been briefed. He has said that he will offer up the military's help. We're going to talk to Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr in just a moment about that.
But right now, the slick is about the size of Delaware or Jamaica, if that's easier for you to comprehend the size. It's moving closer to the shore every minute.
Let's get to Chad Myers with the latest on this. The last I heard from you, Chad, about 16 miles off the coast.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. And now we just got a fly- over saying between six and seven miles off the coast.
VELSHI: Wow.
MYERS: And that's exactly the speed that we thought this would move, at a 20-knot breeze. The wind coming in from the southeast blowing the water right on shore, blowing the oil and the sludge that now this oil has become right on shore. And the forecast has actually changed for it to be at least 10 to 20 miles inland by Saturday afternoon. That's a new NOAA forecast that they just put out there. It' part of a big low-pressure center that's going to be developing in the pains, just dragging moisture from the Gulf of Mexico and making severe weather in the plains, but also dragging the oil slick and pushing it on shore.
You see those blue parishes all the way from Mobile, all the way back down to Plaquemines? Those are all flood watches because of coastal flooding because the wind is so strong. So, not only do we have coastal oil coming on shore, it's going to be a two-to-three- feet-higher tide than we anticipated.
Let me show you this. This is on my Google Earth. And this is a map that NOAA has put out.
They've been doing a wonderful job just kind of keeping us in tune to where this whole thing is. You have to realize, OK, that little spot right there is where the -- the brown spot that you see, that's the oil slick, compared to the Gulf of Mexico. But if you take it and you zoom in, that is the size of Delaware, or as you said a little bit ago, the size of the country of Jamaica.
VELSHI: You know, I've got a post -- I'm just looking for it -- on my Facebook. Good Question. Somebody said -- I'm sure they're being a little sarcastic, but they meant why can't they just sort of put a cork in it, put cement in there, close up that hole? But oil -- this is a new well that was dug -- oil forces its way out of the ground when there's a hole for it to come through. A lot of pressure.
I mean, this is obviously more complicated than just trying to clog a hole.
MYERS: Right. The blowout preventer at the bottom of the ocean that's supposed to stop this oil from coming out, those valves did not move the way they were supposed to. Those valves are still open, so oil is coming out.
In fact, that's why they think that more oil is coming out, because they found a new leak near the blowout preventer. As soon as they get down there with a submersible -- and they tried already -- and get it shut off, then the oil's going to stop coming out. And now the military's going to get involved and they're going to try to do it, and that's obviously at the cost and the expense of BP. So, you don't think you're going to get the ticket for this, because BP is going to be paying for all of this military activity as well.
VELSHI: That's the cost of doing business down there. If something goes wrong, you've got to pay for it.
OK, Chad. Thanks.
Crews, as Chad said, tried method after method to battle the spreading oil. They've used skimmers, they've used booms, they've used barriers to try and prevent it from spreading. They tried and push it all in together.
Officials have been burning the thicker areas of crude oil. They're even trying to build a dome to capture the leaking oil under water.
They might consider calling in the troops. Let's go to Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr about where that stands -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, as you heard the president say just a few moments ago, they are looking at using military troops and equipment to try and deal with this growing crisis. Just a few minutes ago, the Pentagon press secretary, Geoff Morrell, told reporters where it all stands right now.
Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEOFF MORRELL, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: This is receiving top-level attention in the department. It is very clear, based upon the press conference you just saw at the White House a few moments ago, that the president is very concerned about this issue and has directed, you know, the full breadth of the federal government to be helpful.
This department wishes to be helpful, if we can. We are right now in the process of analyzing what we have that could be effective in this particular situation. That review is under way right now. I'm not in a position to identify any particular capabilities, platforms, equipment that we are prepared to offer at this point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: But, Ali, we have talked to some military officials, and they tell us what they are looking at now is a series of things that they could possibly offer. And let me go through some of it with you.
Aerial delivery of oil-dispersing chemicals. What are we talking about? C-130 aircraft, helicopters that could fly overhead in these heavy seas and drop chemicals on the site, essentially trying to bomb the oil out of existence. Towing, containment booms, all kinds of equipment that they could try and contribute to this. We expect to have some answers in the coming hours about the military moving ahead with this operation -- Ali.
VELSHI: All right, Barbara. We'll stay on top of this. Thanks very much. And the governor of Louisiana has actually declared a state of emergency in that state.
Now, we know that oil and water don't mix, but oil and land clearly don't mix. And if this slicks makes landfall, what did Chad say, six or seven miles from land, coming in at 20 knots? It's going to happen. Governor Jindal says it's going to happen today. This could trigger an ecological catastrophe.
I'm going to speak to an expert about this straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. So we've got two big problems in the Gulf of Mexico right now that we've got our eye on.
The slick is five times as large. I don't know if the slick's five times as large, but we're learning that five times the amount of oil is leaking into the water than we first thought. We were told it was 1,000 miles.
I just want to caution you about something. We have been -- I'm going to be pretty strong about this. We've been misinformed every day about this.
First, there was a lot of oil, 1,000 barrels of oil. Then there was absolutely no oil leaking into the ocean. Then it was 1,000 barrels again. And now it's 5,000 barrels a day.
So I have to caution you that we don't know what it is, but the bottom line is there's this big pool of oil that is now, according to Chad Myers, about six miles off of the first land in the Gulf of Mexico. Now, if you know what the Mississippi River Delta looks like -- you're looking at it right now -- you don't hit New Orleans first. You hit a whole bunch of outlying islands, wetlands, marsh, things like that, and there's a lot of marine life, a lot of mammal life in there, and there are people there.
There's shrimping, there's oysters. All of this is very dangerous, and it is now just about there. According to a state of emergency declared by Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, this will hit the coast today, and Chad confirms that, that the winds are blowing right toward the coast, and it's less than a few miles offshore.
Let's see what happens when it gets to shore.
I'm joined by Tom Mackenzie of the Delta Wildlife Reserve. He's on the phone.
Tom, thank you for being with us.
This is now imminent, this is going to happen. It's not a question of whether it's going to happen. It's going to happen, it's going to happen soon.
What happens? Tell me. TOM MACKENZIE, U.S. NATIONAL FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE: Well, people have been planning for this for -- ever since this first started. The area is well trained in responding to oil spills.
Regrettably, Breton Island has already been hit by oil spills before that resulted in over 800 brown pelican deaths five or six years ago. So, we've learned a lot. We know what we're doing to try and protect those key assets of the approximately 34,000 birds that are in the area, of which there's a much smaller number of nesting pelicans. We're setting up booms in conjunction with the Coast Guard and the responsible party, who has been aggressively booming the areas to try and deflect and prevent the heavy oil or the light sheen from actually reaching those crucial nesting areas for these coastal birds.
VELSHI: But now Chad is telling us you've got two issues that we didn't have, let's say, three days ago. And one is we now have winds picking up and we've got waves picking up.
Are you going to -- do you think these efforts are going to be able to prevent that oil getting into those nesting areas? And if any gets in, what's the effect?
MACKENZIE: It's an excellent question. And this is one of those where time will tell.
They are setting up the booms now. They were working until well into late last night to do so, which is a dicey operation. You know, these people are really trying to get the -- get the booms deployed before that oil hits.
We are concerned with additional negative weather coming in which could prevent further boom activities, and the other kind of downside is the bad weather then. If the oil did make contact with the land and contaminate the nests and the young that are hatching now, it's going to be tough to get out there and get them just due to the high tidal activities.
VELSHI: Yes.
MACKENZIE: So, there are a -- you know, there's some potential for some bad news here.
VELSHI: Tom, give me your best-case and your worst-case scenario.
MACKENZIE: Wow. The best case is that the wind shifts and the oil doesn't hit. I'm not real confident about that.
The worst case is it hits Breton, it goes down the coast and hits the other, you know, gorgeous beaches of the Gulf, which we and all the other parties that are responding to this spill, of which, you know, are probably numbering in the thousands at this point, but I haven't got that personnel listing at this point. But I know we're doing everything we can to prevent it, but it could be a bad one.
VELSHI: What's the -- what do humans need to think about if they're in that area? You're going to get that oil coming in, you're going to get those fumes. I know people in southern Louisiana, there's a lot of oil, a lot of offshoring there. They don't find those smells uncommon.
But is this toxic to people, as well as animals?
MACKENZIE: I can't really talk on people. I mean, I work on the safety end with wildlife.
VELSHI: Right.
MACKENZIE: But I need to get with EPA for that sort of stuff.
VELSHI: Right.
MACKENZIE: I can tell you, our folks that were out in the field -- and I have overheard, actually, conversations, you know, addressing the issues of safety and oil, so that's spread out. I mean, safety's first throughout this whole operation.
So I know if there's any kind of personnel safety issues for public or responders, that they would be doing stuff to address that and warn people. But there are a series of hotlines that people are requested to call, you know, in the event they see oiled wildlife.
They can call 866-557-1401, and that -- leave a message of where they can get it. And then qualified rehabilitators and capture specialists would go and work to get those wildlife. And after doing it myself during the Mississippi oil spill, when the barge hit the bridge a while back, it's not the easiest thing to do, to capture even oiled wildlife. So it takes qualified specialists to do that sort of stuff.
VELSHI: Yes.
MACKENZIE: We don't recommend people do that.
VELSHI: And, Tom, once you capture -- this is just not -- it is no easier than it appears. We've all seen video of this happen. You literally have to capture these birds and then you go wash them with detergent.
MACKENZIE: That's right. And BP has contracted with extremely qualified rehabilitators with tristate, and they are, you know, tops in the nation for this kind of action -- you know, this kind of action. They're pros in the big.
They've already set up, identified locations where these wildlife will be taken. And they're looking at -- you know, they're looking at the worst case as well, and they're looking at additional, you know, warehouse facilities where cleaning stations would be taking care of the oiled wildlife. So a lot of people are leaning forward in the foxhole to address this issue. And it's a pretty impressive operation, and it's -- you know, it's a tough one to address, that's for sure.
VELSHI: And by the way, Tom, this is not a matter of waiting now. You know this thing is coming to you.
The state of Louisiana says it's on its way. Our best guess is it's -- I mean, we've heard 6:00 p.m. Eastern, but it's 2:30 and this thing's six miles away and closer. It's not going to be 6:00. We're going to start seeing this thing hitting land within the hour, probably.
MACKENZIE: Well, the operations to address it have been ongoing for many days, so this is not a -- this is not a surprise to the folks that have been working and planning for a worst-case scenario. So, we've identified priority items, priority areas. Both the state has identified them on their lands, and the Fish and Wildlife Service has addressed the national wildlife refuges that, of course, are designed to protect wildlife.
VELSHI: Right.
MACKENZIE: So, those areas, the key areas, are being boomed off just as quickly as possible. Can it be -- can you boom the entire coast? No. You know, we've got to identify priorities. We've been doing it, and we're going to do our best to save as much as we can.
VELSHI: All right. And to be clear, this is a remarkably rich area in wildlife. For people who don't know and they associate sort of New Orleans with the Gulf Coast, the fact is this coast, this coastal area of Louisiana and Mississippi, it's a series of deltas. It's marshes, it's other wetlands, it's marine life, it's mammals.
How would you compare it -- I mean, this is probably one of the richest areas in terms of sea life and marine life in the country.
MACKENZIE: Well, if you're a birder, it's a birder's paradise. A fantastic array of wildlife either that transit through with neotropicals, as well as just a huge selection of just gorgeous shore birds. Skimmers, shore birds, gulls, pelicans, Roseate Spoonbills, egrets. I mean, the list goes on and on. These are some fantastic wildlife.
VELSHI: Tom, there --
MACKENZIE: The other stuff I just wanted to mention is that we're also concerned later on down the pike with other resources such as the sea turtle nesting activities that are just coming on, starting any time fairly soon. That would be on other parts of the Gulf. That's another of our concern, along with gulf sturgeon that are starting to migrate back up to lay their eggs up rivers.
VELSHI: Yes.
MACKENZIE: As well as the potential for manatees on portions of the coast. Not right here where we're talking here at Breton, but further towards Florida. And we're doing everything we can to see what we can do to protect those species, but it's going to be a real challenge.
VELSHI: Tom, my producer was just speaking to someone we know on Grand Isle who operates a commercial shrimping operation. Independent shrimpers who own one boat spend their team out there in the Gulf and then they come and sell him their shrimp.
He says this could devastate the shrimping industry there.
MACKENZIE: I don't know about the shrimp, I'm sorry. I do more wildlife that's closer to the terrestrial, on the coastal side, so you need to talk to a real shrimp guy about that.
VELSHI: OK. We've put the phone number on the screen that you gave us, 866-557-1401.
This is the number you call if you are in that coastal area and you see wildlife in jeopardy. You see an oil slick, you see a bird that you think has got oil on it, because you've got experts who -- I guess you can't catch 34,000 of these birds, but you guys know how to -- you have got people who can capture them and wash them off.
MACKENZIE: That's right. The other thing I want to say, everybody wants to help and they are saying, hey, how can I volunteer or something?
They have a volunteer community information line, groups that want to participate, and that is being handled at this number, and that's 1-866-448-5816. And that's for the folks that are saying, hey, you know, how can I help? I'm concerned with wildlife.
That's the way to do that. And, again, we encourage people not to just, you know, go out, should it hit, and start collecting stuff. You know, we don't want to do more harm than good.
VELSHI: All right. Tom, thank you for your time. Thanks for letting us know what's going on. Please keep us posted on any new developments.
We are expecting this oil slick to at least touch land very quickly. This is going to put into effect everything that you have been preparing for the next -- for the last few days.
Tom Mackenzie is with the U.S. National Fish and Wildlife Service joing me from Houma, Louisiana.
We will be back on this story. We're going to stay on it. Chad is watching reports of where that oil slick is, how close it gets to land. The state of Louisiana has issued a state of emergency, has declared a state of emergency.
Another big story we're following is this immigration fight in Arizona. It is heading to the courtroom. Who is jumping into the fray and why?
I'll tell you right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: You've seen protests and heard lawmakers speak out against the tough new Arizona immigration law. There is another side that feels equally as strong in favor of the law.
We're going to bring you that, but first let's catch you up on what is happening specifically today.
Four groups that advocate for immigrant rights, including the American Civil Liberties Union, is announcing a legal challenge. The president has come out against this new law as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: What I think is a mistake is when we start having local law enforcement officials empowered to stop people on the suspicion that they may be undocumented workers, because, you know, that carries a great amount of risk that -- for values we all care about are breached.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: CNN has learned the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, and other Democrats plan to unveil a new comprehensive immigration reform bill. It calls for concrete benchmarks to secure the border before illegal immigrants can seek legal status. But it would place -- would put in process a -- it would put a process in place for immigrants to get legalized.
Now, of course, there are two sides to every story. This is no exception.
Kris Kobach is a law professor who helped draft the Arizona legislation. He is being paid as well by the Maricopa County Arizona law enforcement officers about -- for -- on how to -- how to actually enforce this law.
He joins me now. Kris Kobach is in Kansas City, Missouri.
Kris, thanks for being with us. You wrote an op-ed in "The New York Times" today that lays out a response to some of the most common criticisms of this law. One that you just heard from President Obama saying that it's going to empower police to stop people and question their citizenship. It's going to encourage racial profiling.
KRIS KOBACH, HELPED DRAFT ARIZ. LEGISLATION: Well, and those are just some examples of the misinformation that's out there. I really think President Obama should actually try to read the law and see what's in it. The law expressly prohibits racial profiling in section two. The law doesn't require police officers to stop people just on the basis of suspicion of their legal status.
In fact, the law says if the police officer is already investigating some other violation of law and then he develops reasonable suspicion that the person is not lawfully present in the country, the person -- the law enforcement officer should confirm with the federal government rather than merely proceeding on his own suspicion.
VELSHI: But let's just -- is there a -- is there a -- this law -- and I have read very little of it, and I'm not a lawyer. But it seems to compel law enforcement, local law enforcement, to make that determination as opposed to in case you just come across it.
KOBACH: No. Actually, the law doesn't compel law enforcement officers to make any stops whatsoever.
VELSHI: No, no. But it does compel you that you've made that stop to try and make some determination if you have reasonable suspicion that the person might be in the country illegally.
KOBACH: Right. And I guess what we should back off and realize is that all law enforcement officers across the country have inherent authority when they develop reasonable suspicion that someone's unlawfully in the country, they can actually make an arrest. Many courts, the fourth, fifth, eighth, ninth, and 10th circuits have all held that.
VELSHI: Yes.
KOBACH: And what this law does, it says, "Officer, before you continue on your reasonable suspicion too far, you need to contact the federal government and verify that the person is actually here illegally." And the federal government has had a hotline in place for about 15 years to allow police officers to do that. And the Arizona law just compels them to take that step and talk to the federal government before they proceed.
VELSHI: So, they don't -- what would be -- give me some sense of what would constitute that reasonable suspicion? I think as you noted in your -- in your op-ed, that is well-established in law. But in this particular chase, a police officer pulls somebody over, in the state of Arizona, for an unrelated matter, a traffic stop.
KOBACH: Yes.
VELSHI: What happens next?
KOBACH: Well, reasonable suspicion has been defined by the courts as a combination of factors. There have to be several -- more than one factor present. In a traffic stop in Arizona, a typical situation might be you have a Ford Windstar van with 16 people crammed inside and they're on a known alien smuggling corridor and no one in the vehicle has any documentation, any identification whatsoever. And the driver's acting evasively.
Those factors combined would say, yes, there's reasonable suspicion that the occupants of that vehicle, some of them may be here illegally.
VELSHI: And, so, what changes under this law, if that same scenario that you just described were to happen prior to this law being enacted versus after?
KOBACH: Two things change. One is, the law requires the police officer as soon as is practicable to make that call to the federal government and confirm with the federal government's databases that the individual is indeed unlawfully present.
The other thing that changes is the law -- the officer has a third tool in his toolbox, if you will. Previously, he could just turn the aliens over to ICE or he might be able to make a prosecution under the human smuggling statute that Arizona has had since 2005. Now, he has another statute if the individuals have failed to carry the documents that the federal law already requires them to carry.
VELSHI: What happens to the sheriff of Pima County who came out yesterday and said he's not interested in the law, not interested in enforcing it -- what is he subject to?
KOBACH: Well, it depends. If it's just a matter of prosecutorial discretion -- rather police enforcement discretion from time to time with no official policy, probably nothing happens to him. If, on the other hand, his county enacts an official policy and says, we're not going to cooperate with the federal government in the enforcement of this or any other aspect of federal immigration laws, and then, potentially, he could be subject to suit from his own residents, saying, hey, you're supposed to help us and you're supposed to protect us.
VELSHI: Right, but this isn't a federal law. So, what's his liability? It's a state law.
KOBACH: Yes, there's monetary liability if a state officer, a state official, rather, or a local entity, refuses --
VELSHI: Right.
KOBACH: -- to take part and participate in any way.
VELSHI: And legally speaking, a local sheriff is a state entity.
KOBACH: Correct, yes.
VELSHI: All right. One thing I want to ask you about is: at what point does this -- one of the arguments he made is the monetary argument, the idea that up until now, it is not his obligation. If he thinks there's an immigration problem, he refers it to border control and they deal with it at their cost. He doesn't want his county incurring a new cost which he thinks this law is going to make him incur.
KOBACH: Well, then, what he's just describing what he's doing already is something that the law asks them to do. Call the federal government. That's always been an option in Arizona and it will continue to be an option. Call the feds and ask them to pick up the alien who is believed to be unlawfully present in the county.
VELSHI: What do you do with Maricopa County? What's your role? What's your relationship to them?
KOBACH: Well, I started working with Maricopa County back in 2006 when I helped them defend the human smuggling law in court and I've been continuing to work with Maricopa County training their deputies to insure that they carefully observe all of the constitutional requirements in developing reasonable suspicion and that they enforce these laws very carefully and clearly within the constraints of the law.
VELSHI: Kris, good to talk you. I'm sorry it took us a little while to get to you because we're dealing with this oil slick. But an important topic and good to have somebody who was involved in the drafting of it so you can at least tell us what you -- what your intents were and those as well as those people who were involved in drafting it. Good to see you.
Kris Kobach joining us, on this law.
KOBACH: Thank you.
VELSHI: Josh Levs has been on the story fairly continuously.
I want to take a quick break and then we're going to get to you. You're going to give us some of the hard facts and the numbers on the ground in Arizona.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, nobody knows how many illegal immigrants are in the country. We're going to take a look at that.
VELSHI: OK.
LEVS: And also, we're going to take a look what the government says is a big change that just happened over the last year.
VELSHI: OK. Right when we come back.
LEVS: You got it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Bigger problem is illegal immigration in this country. Josh Levs has been crunching some numbers for us. As he always does, he tries to make sense of it.
Take it away.
LEVS: Because you know, what the deal is, everyone thinks they know the number, right?
VELSHI: Right.
LEVS: Unfortunately, very few people do. And here's the latest that we have from the government. Let's get right to it.
The Department of Homeland Security thinks they have a really good estimate how many illegal immigrants in the country, 10.8 million. Now, it is a guesstimate, but what's really interesting -- watch this little video chart we have for you here. This is what's happened over the last decade. It was going up throughout the first decade of this millennium, and then, all of a sudden, boom, big drop, 2007, it reached a high point 11.8 million 2007.
And apparently, we have 1 million fewer illegal immigrants since 2007 -- which happened to coincide with the economy. So, they're thinking that's one of the big reasons it's dropping (ph).
VELSHI: It's not as lucrative for an illegal immigrant to come into the United States if the economy is not booming the same way that it was.
LEVS: There's less incentive if you're seeing really bad economic stories in United States and you have it rough in Mexico or wherever you are --
VELSHI: Right.
LEVS: Then there's yes, there's fewer people who are going to try to kind of sneak their way in.
VELSHI: All right. All right. We'll be on this story a lot. So, your perspective on that and your ability to drill down on it really helps us. Thanks.
LEVS: Thank you.
VELSHI: Josh Levs.
LEVS: You bet.
VELSHI: All right. We're going to have more on where and when this oil spill is expected to hit shore right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Let's go out to Chad. He's watching the update on that -- on that oil slick and heading toward the Gulf of Mexico, the coast.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes. We have the NOAA forecasts now especially -- and, you know, and we'll talk about when things hit the coast. It's not going to be one big slosh of oil. The first things that hit the coast will be tar balls.
These tar balls are the oldest oil, they've coagulated and clumped together, and they're not going to affect a lot of the marine life because they're not going to get on the feathers, they're not going to be ingested. They're kind of baseball size, tennis ball-size things, and golf ball-sized things. That's good.
Here's the forecast, though, and by 6:00 tonight, that little red zone right there, especially just the very tip of the mouth of the Mississippi, will be affected. But by tomorrow, all the way up into Plaquemines Parish in this black zone with the tar balls and then the red zone through here, that at the very -- I would say the wettest part of the oil making landfall.
And then we go to May 1st, and it could be all the way up into St. Bernard's Parish, even here all the way through those barrier islands that we talked about and then, of course, down where the oil already is.
And this is just a NOAA estimate of what the winds could possibly do to this. Tides will also make a difference and the flow of the Mississippi pushing it out into the ocean, again, will make a difference as well. A lot of big factors here we'll talk about.
VELSHI: Well, I was going to say we have more factors than we did when it was just one clump way farther off, 50 miles off, into the ocean. Now, there's a bunch of things coming into play and somewhere we know very shortly, something, some mammal, some animal, some bird, something is going to come into contact with this thing.
MYERS: Of course.
VELSHI: It's going to become a lot bigger. Chad, thanks very much.
MYERS: OK.
VELSHI: All right. Let me take a break and we'll come back, I'm going to keep you up to speed on the top stories, and we'll keep you posted on this oil slick as it gets closer to land.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Let me bring you up to speed with some of our top stories.
The biggest one is that huge oil slick in the Gulf of Mexico, rolling closer and closer to land. Louisiana has declared a state of emergency amid frantic efforts to contain it and head off an environmental disaster. It might be too late, though. Wildlife groups say hundreds of different species are at risk. Meantime, the Pentagon has started marshaling its resources to help the cleanup.
An update on the coal mine collapse in Kentucky that we were telling you about. Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell says one of two miners trapped underground has died. No word yet on the other worker. Part of the mine's roof caved in last night, and things remain unstable, forcing rescue crews to pull back several times.
Less than a week after Governor Jan Brewer signed the Arizona's controversial immigration law has sparked protests. We've been covering those. There are petition drives, planned lawsuits. Now, it has also spurred Congress to action. CNN has learned later today, some top Senate Democrats will announce the outlines of legislation for federal immigration reform, and when that happens, we will bring that to you.
All right. Ed Henry is coming up. He's standing -- where is he? He's right outside the White House.
ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: There you go.
VELSHI: We'll be back with him in just a moment to get his take on everything that's going on today. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
VELSHI: Ed's there. I'm getting a lot of e-mail, Twitter, Facebook traffic about a little blog entry that showed up about Ed and me. I'm going to talk about that in a minute.
But here he is, Ed Henry, every day this time, "The Ed Henry Segment."
A great little moment in the Rose Garden today, Ed.
HENRY: Yes, the president was welcoming the Teacher of the Year from Iowa and he was teasing Senator Harkin about that. And it was interesting because he wanted to talk about education. He was there with Arne Duncan, his education secretary.
This is a great moment in the Rose Garden, but he had to top off those remarks with this oil spill you've been talking about. A sort of an awkward transition for the president because he started out talking about the oil spill and then basically said, I know there are a lot of science teachers out there, you know, paying attention to this, maybe you could send in some ideas. And there was of laughter -- sort of awkward, though --
VELSHI: Yes.
HENRY: -- because you don't want to be suggesting that, OK, we're out of ideas, folks. I know he was being lighthearted about it, but it's a serious situation.
And I think that right before this ceremony in the Rose Garden, you saw Robert Gibbs come out with, you know, the homeland security secretary, officials at the Interior Department, the full force of the American government to say, look, we're trying to get on top of this, because they realize this starts getting worse and worse down there off the coast of Louisiana.
VELSHI: Yes.
HENRY: People are going to start inevitably asking the questions --
VELSHI: Yes.
HENRY: -- did the administration deal with this a little too late, or should they have been more all over this late last week? And Robert Gibbs was saying, the company was there and it's their responsibility. But, certainly, the U.S. government has got some responsibility as well.
VELSHI: Yes.
HENRY: You talk about the wildlife and the other environmental damage that could take place. VELSHI: Yes. There's a whole bunch of conflicting information in the first couple days about how much oil was actually there. At one point after seeing this oil leaking out, they've said, absolutely none. The other issue, of course, now as it gets closer to land, we're already seeing, you've seen them, Ed, e-mails flying around Capitol Hill with people saying we need to now examine the administration's policy on offshore drilling now that President Obama has encouraged that.
But more important than all of that, Ed -- some blog decides to --
HENRY: What could be more important than that?
VELSHI: Some blog decides to write about our budding, what they call it, bromance -- a friendship between guys.
HENRY: Yes. It's a blogger, Betsy Rustin (ph). She used to work at "The Hill" when I was at "Roll Call." And we were sort of rival newspapers. "Roll Call" was always better. So, I like to tease Betsy about that. But she wrote about the bromance of you and I.
And you know, what's funny about it is, two things: how she has to define what a bromance is.
VELSHI: Right.
HENRY: Quote, "i.e., a complicated friendship shared by two straight males." That was funny the way she put it. And then, quote, "Henry even once went on a secret trip to Atlanta and surprise Velshi," and she puts parenthetically, for a TV segment, of course. Just to clarify as to why I was surprising you.
VELSHI: Right.
HENRY: You know, I guess it's finally hit the blogs. Ali, what can I say, you know?
VELSHI: Well, we're secure in our relationship.
HENRY: We are. It's a good relationship.
VELSHI: Always good to see you, my friend. You have a good one. We'll talk to you at the same time tomorrow.
HENRY: All right. See you tomorrow.
VELSHI: Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent.
Coming up: I've got my own take on the new airline rules taking effect today, eight steps to one heck of a tarmac experience. You do not want to miss this. My "XYZ" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Time now for the "XYZ" of it. A new dawn for airline passengers as rules go into place that will fine airlines up to $27,000 per passenger if a plane stays on the tarmac for more than three hours. It seems that no one is going to be pleased if a plane is on the ground for that long. Airlines do not want to pay the fines and passengers don't want to be on the plane that long.
So, I have come up with eight ideas that will cost a lot less than 27 grand per passenger to help airlines make the time spent while waiting a little more enjoyable. Here they are.
Number one: once everybody is on board and it looks like a delay in takeoff is inevitable, have passengers write down their guesses as to how long that delay will last. The winner gets cash prizes, although you've got to cancel the contest if the plane gets clearance to take off before everyone has written down a guess.
Number two: give every passenger a card. Let's say a blue card for -- a blue card for those people who think the plane will eventually take off and fly. A red card for those who think that in order to avoid the fine, the plane will eventually turn back to the gate and the flight will get canceled. Give everyone who guesses right a prize.
Number three: after the flight has been delayed on the tarmac for more than two hours, give everyone a movie voucher to go to the movies. I mean, have the stranded passengers associated being stuck on your plane, have them associate it with something they actually enjoy doing for two hours.
Number four: conduct a scavenger hunt -- allow passengers to really get to know the plane that they're on, not just the seat that they're in.
Number five: provide everybody with stationery and envelopes, and invite frustrated passengers to write letters of complaints to the Department of Transportation, and then read the letters out loud, publish the best letters in next month's edition of the in-flight magazine.
Number six: have passengers pry those enormous carry-ons out of the bins -- you know, the ones they're forced to carry because of the checked baggage fees that you charge? Bring them up front and do a little show-and-tell.
Number seven: this one's my personal favorite. Always keep one seat in first class open. Invite passengers from coach to come up front and deliver an impromptu, unscripted two-minute speech entitled, "Why I should sit up here with you fat cats." After the speeches, passengers already sitting in first class get to vote on which peasant gets the upgrade.
Number eight: explain to all of us again why I have to shut off all of my electronics when the doors closed? Because I'm still a little puzzled as to how my little BlackBerry is somehow going to interfere with your multibillion dollar navigation system. But I really do like hearing the speech.
That's my list. Now, it's time for "RICK'S LIST" after the break.
