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Dow Plunges due to European Economy; Terror Threat at Home; Job Markets Still Volatile; Masked Thief Steals Five Masterpieces from Paris Museum; Wall Street Reform Fails in the Senate; Plane Uses 70% Less Fuel; Cyclist Landis: I Cheated

Aired May 20, 2010 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: CNN NEWSROOM continuing right now with Drew Griffin, in for Ali Velshi.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: Tony, thanks a lot. We're going to begin with the breaking news that you left off with on Wall Street.

Something is happening. The Dow is pretty much tanking right now. Just walking up the stairs, it's dropped another 30 or so points, down 351.57. We've got the debt crisis in Europe, the euro taking a tank, a bad jobs report today.

I'm sitting in for Ali Velshi today, but Ali is on assignment and joining us now live.

I think you're Wilmington -- is it North Carolina, Ali -- to explain your thoughts on what's happening with the Dow, now down 351?

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR (via phone): Yes, Drew, we're two weeks out from that big crash that we saw, some of which was caused by computerized trading, but there was something underlying it two weeks ago, and it's exactly the same thing we're seeing today.

We're seeing a lot of downward pressure on U.S. markets because there's pressure on world markets because of this continuing debt problem in Europe that we saw. A big solution, we thought- a trillion dollar solution by the central banks and Europe about two Mondays ago. But the fact is it has not had the impact that has convinced investors that Europe is OK.

So here's the problem. The euro keeps dropping. As a result of the euro dropping, it's making things more expensive for Europeans, who like Americans, import a lot of their -- their stuff that they buy. Now, when things get more expensive, it slows down the economy, because people can't buy as much. It's also threatening that interest rates will go up. That will slow down the economy. So this is threatening to cause a sort of a double dip to the economy.

Think about how -- what we were going through, Drew, in October, September, October of 2008, where we didn't know what was going to happen with the banks and what was going to fail and what wasn't. That's what Europe is going through right now. And just like when it happened in the United States, it was contagious to the rest of the world. That's what's happening right now. What's happening in Europe is costing us.

Now, we thought we had seen the worst of it this morning when European markets -- when our markets opened. But as you said, it seems to be getting worse right now. This is a problem for European banks and European regulators and European governments. But until they solve it, investors are saying, "We want out of the stock market," and that's why you're seeing this pressure on the stock market right now, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Ali, here's what I don't understand. We were hoping this recession was over and that the stock market would be one of the leading indicators to pull us out, and then we're told trickle, trickle, trickle down, that jobs would follow.

VELSHI: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Today we've got a tanking stock market and a bad jobs report.

VELSHI: Yes. Now those bad jobs reports, we get a big jobs report once a month, on the first Friday of ovary month. We get weekly unemployment claims report, which is what we saw today. And generally speaking, the jobs situation has started to get better.

So now what's happening is you saw one that was an anomaly today, and that, combined with what's going on in Europe, has really caused a lot of people to say, "I want to sit this market out. I want to get into safer types of investments." And by the way, you've seen, Drew, how people are investing in gold these days because that's thought to be a safer investment.

Now, keep in mind, there are some companies less affected by this than others. So most of the stocks on the S&P 500 or the Dow, the kind that you have in your 401(k), are down today because so many American companies get their profit from Europe. So when the euro is low, their profit, which is in euros, gets translated into dollars, and they lose money.

But the -- this is not -- I don't think this is as serious as some people are making it out to be. Remember, we've had a 70 percent gain in the market from last March to this April. That's five times higher than some of the best years we've ever had. So some pullbacks are necessary. I wouldn't panic just yet. For some people this might be an opportunity to rebalance their 401(k). But it is definitely worth keeping a very, very close eye on.

GRIFFIN: It's unbelievable, Ali. But we're getting used to these super swings in the stock market.

VELSHI: Right. And remember, we used to, back in 2008, and the beginning of 2009, right, we were seeing them -- we were seeing them very regularly, and it became commonplace. Then we didn't see them for a long time, and now we're starting to see them again. And it's no more settling, Drew, now than it was back then.

GRIFFIN: Are there individual stocks that you've been able to see that have been affected the most? Are we talking about finance issues?

VELSHI: Yes. So American companies -- first of all, all sorts of European companies are being affected, but particularly German companies. But here in the United States, the companies that do the largest proportion of business in Europe are getting hit particularly hard. General Electric, Ford, companies like that, where they have sales in Europe and they earn money in euros, because those euros have suddenly become less valuable. So we're seeing that.

We're seeing companies with major exposure. Keep in mind: this problem is -- we're at a further stage in the United States. Canada is still healthy. South America is still healthy. Asia is still healthy. So companies that are getting most of their money from those kinds of places are doing OK.

But bottom line, one of our producers was just telling me that, for every one stock that's up on the Dow today, 25 stocks are down.

GRIFFIN: Well, I mean, if you have faith in the long-term market, this would be a good day to buy into it and especially to buy into some of those European stocks.

VELSHI: I'd do it in the balanced way. Remember, for most of our viewers, we're not day traders.

GRIFFIN: Right.

VELSHI: We're longer-term investors. So you want to -- may be a good time to talk to your financial adviser. Just as always, never want to do anything rash.

GRIFFIN: All right. Ali Velshi, Winston Salem today, Ali.

VELSHI: Yes.

GRIFFIN: Yes. Thanks for letting me sit in on your show, by the way.

VELSHI: Enjoy it. Great show.

GRIFFIN: If this thing keeps happening, you stay close to your phone.

Right now, where are we at, guys? What's the -- what's the Dow? 314. So a little bit of a bounce back. All right. Ali Velshi live from Winston Salem.

Let's move on now. We're going to talk about terrorism. You know, they live in the U.S., but they're accused of helping al Qaeda target us, target Americans. It's not the first time you've heard of it. In fact, it happened just yesterday.

But here's what we're trying to figure out today. What makes a man go from pursuing the American dream to pledging allegiance to America's enemies? Khalid Ouazzani is a naturalized U.S. citizen living in Kansas City. He's originally from Morocco. He's a car dealer. He pleaded guilty yesterday to helping al Qaeda. He gave the group money, $23,000.

Prosecutors say he also admitted to talk about fighting in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, somewhere. He pledged an oath of allegiance to al Qaeda two years ago.

Faisal Shahzad, he's the guy charged earlier this month for trying to detonate a bomb in Times Square. Remember, this guy once lived a good life in Connecticut. He's originally from Pakistan. He became a U.S. citizen, got degrees here in the U.S. Prosecutors say he's admitted his role in the bombing and he's been giving them plenty of information since his arrest. He faces felony charges, including attempted use of weapons of mass destruction.

Then there's Najibullah Zazi. Remember him? He pleaded guilty in February to conspiring to detonate explosions in the U.S. He told the judge he wanted to fight against the U.S., but he was recruited by al Qaeda instead.

Zazi is a native of Afghanistan, a legal U.S. resident. His family was doing pretty good here in the U.S. So what is going on?

We're going to get answers from a guy I often go to to get answers from, Frank Cilluffo.

You're with the George Washington Institute, the Homeland Security Institute, one of the foremost experts on the minds, Frank, of these terrorists. And I can't get my handle on what's happening with these particular terrorists who don't seem to be religious zealots, who don't seem to be fundamental Islamic extremists, and yet they're willing to attack Americans, just as willing as they are to give police information on who sent them over here.

FRANK CILLUFFO, GEORGE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE: Drew, it's good to join you. And yes, we have seen the threat metastasize in the past two years to include a big spike in homegrown Jihadi cases.

The one issue to keep in mind that it that it comes in various shapes, flavors and sizes. If there's a single common denominator here, it's the ideology. As the old adage says, "It's the economy, stupid." In this case, it's the ideology.

So we need to be able to better understand al Qaeda's narrative, their story. They're buying into this bankrupt ideology. In the three cases you raised earlier today, these are naturalized citizens. Obviously they have feet in two different worlds, two different cultures. And they've been seduced by al Qaeda's story. And we need to be able to do more to push back on that.

And I think the big ungoverned space -- we all talk about terrorism and the ability to be able to act. The biggest ungoverned space today is the Internet. And the killer application of the Internet is not the technology itself; it's rather people. It has the ability to not only provide reaffirmation and identity, but also to connect like-minded individuals in far-flung corners of the world who share these aberrant views.

GRIFFIN: The one trend that I see in the last several months at least, maybe in the past eight months, Frank, is the idea that a Muslim here, or perhaps an Afghani here or a Pakistani here is so enraged by civilian killings in their countries that they want to go to those countries and fight American soldiers there.

And then they are swooped up by these al Qaeda operatives who say, "Hey, you can do a much better job for us if you take your passport, get back into the United States, and attack America on its own ground."

CILLUFFO: They might have gone over there, not thinking anything about an attack here, but suddenly they're talked into it.

You know you're absolutely right. They are so-called clean skins, which means they have unfettered access, as any other American citizen would in the United States. They can travel relatively freely. And I think we've got four clusters of threat here. You still have al Qaeda central, which may be damaged a bit. And Zazi is the closest case we see to that.

You obviously have al Qaeda's affiliates. Both Americans, David Headly (ph) which you've done some great work on in the past, but also, Abdul Mutallab, our so-called booty bomber over Christmas was -- was affiliated one of al Qaeda's affiliates.

Then you've got a big swath of those inspired by al Qaeda's ideology but initially not connected. They go, they travel overseas like the five guys who are from Virginia or Colleen Rose, a.k.a. Jihad Jane. These individuals don't fit any traditional profile, but they are getting some training.

And I think you're starting to see a fourth trend that is really disconcerting. And that is they are getting some training, but there's no direct connection. The leaders overseas in Waziristan, or wherever it may be, are saying go forth and prosper but don't tell us because we don't want to compromise operation security. That's going to be a whole new set of challenges.

And then you've also got the (INAUDIBLE) region in Afghanistan and Pakistan are big concerns. You're starting to see much more activity, especially as Americans are concerned, going to Yemen and Somalia.

And here, I think again the Internet plays a big role. It's these bridge figures. It's Oaqui (ph). It's Omar Hammami, a.k.a. Al- Amriki. These guys are radicalizing Americans, and American kids can see a glimmer of themselves in them. So they're not just some distant scholars reciting texts. These are people who are using rap music and other culturally conducive means to be able to try to make sense of all of this.

So we've got a broad swath of issues. And quite honestly, we don't have the domestic intelligence capacity we need right now.

GRIFFIN: Right. Which, Frank, we have to wrap it up, but which is increasingly putting pressure on these various communities to monitor their communities and in some cases monitoring their own children who are inside their bedrooms, sucking in all this hatred, as you say, from these rock stars in the Jihadist movement.

Frank Cilluffo, thanks for joining us from George Washington Institute. Always a pleasure.

CILLUFFO: Thank you, Drew. Sorry I've never had an unspoken thought. Sorry I went so long.

GRIFFIN: Thanks. No, no worries. Thanks a lot.

Coming up next, we're going to talk about this BP oil spill. Good news, bad news, how much is flowing from out of there?

And, also, "XYZ" today looking at drugs, Mexican violence, and what you might be smoking Saturday night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Oil has been spewing out of the Gulf of Mexico from the ruins of an offshore rig now for a month. By BP's estimates, roughly 5,000 barrels a day. Today, however, we get what sounds like good news but probably isn't.

BP says the tube it's been using to bring leaked oil to a tanker on the surface is now catching 5,000 barrels a day. But it's still missing a lot. Logically, that means that the official estimate was low, as so many scientists have been warning us.

Much more on that in a minute, but first, want to catch you up on some other headlines.

This is not sheen, complains the governor of Louisiana; nor is it tar balls. You're seeing new pictures of thick, syrupy crude encroaching on the all-important wetlands at the mouth of the Mississippi River.

Government scientists also are seeing signs of oil in the so- called loop current that dips around Florida and pushes up the East Coast. In that case, it is sheen; nothing heavy to far.

And under pressure from Congress, BP is promising to make public a live video feed from the ruptured pipe on the ocean floor. It's not up yet. I'm going to let you know when we see it.

And when we do come back we're going to have more on what's happening on the Dow. Today bouncing back right now, but it was down over 330 points. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We're following somewhat breaking news on the New York Stock Exchange. Stocks sliding again. This week over ongoing uncertainty about Europe's debt problems, the future of the Wall Street reform bill, and the latest job news isn't that good either.

Poppy Harlow is with us in New York.

Poppy, I know that you're going to be heading down to the stock exchange pretty soon.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes.

GRIFFIN: But what -- can you tell us what is going on here? What's the explanation?

HARLOW: Sure. I can certainly try. I mean, I think Ali really summed it up well. We've got a lot going on. We're heading down to the exchange to try to talk to traders on the floor and get their perspective. We'll be down there within the hour.

But from what we can tell right here, there's a number of factors. When we got that weekly jobless claims number this morning, it was worse than expected, and that always shakes up Wall Street when it comes in worse than expected. Four hundred seventy-one thousand Americans filing for those unemployment claims last week.

That's not even the monthly jobs report. That is ahead in a few weeks. But this is the weekly number. The street didn't like that.

And then there's the continuing concerns about Europe's debt crisis. We have a nearly trillion-dollar bailout package for Greece, for Spain, for Portugal, some of these European nations facing huge debt problems. The issue is how far is it going to go? Is it going to work? There's still a lot of questions that are unanswered.

Greece just got the first part of that bailout money this week. They're yet to put that into play here. That's a major question.

And we've also seen this, very interesting to watch, and I know Ali also mentioned it, this flight to gold. And Drew, what all the gold traders are telling me -- I was down at the New York Mercantile Exchange talking to oil and gold traders this week, and you see oil selling off in a big way. Crude is at $65 a barrel right now.

They're running away from these commodities that people use in growing economies, so oil, copper, things that economies need to grow, people need to travel to fuel energy, whether it's your home or business. They're running away from those, and they're running into commodities like gold, Drew, because they're looking at gold as something that you can't make more of and also something that is an alternative currency, which I think is very interesting. We're right around the record highs for gold. They're fleeing to that. It's called a flight for quality. That's what they call it on Wall Street. And they running away from the stock market.

And I've got to tell you, I'm looking at trading of a number of big banks right now, at Ford, at Apple, at General Electric, at Citigroup. They're all down three, four, and five percent right now. So you see it across the board. We're not talking about one sector. You're looking at across the board.

And again, we saw that flash crash not long ago, two weeks ago on May 6, when the Dow fell about 1,000 points, came back but still ended about 350 points lower. We're not too far from that right now, Drew. We're down 266 points. So the volatility here to stay. And it's going to be very interesting to hear what the traders say about what they think is going on here.

GRIFFIN: Poppy, we'll look for your reporting...

HARLOW: Sure.

GRIFFIN: ... coming down from the street once you get back from that.

Poppy's part of the best financial team on television. You can catch more on "YOUR $$$$$." That's Ali Velshi and Christine Romans, Saturdays at 1 p.m. Eastern, Sundays at 3 p.m. Eastern.

Well, imagine coming face to face with a massive tornado as it hovers above and touches down near a small down. We're going to have more severe weather on tap, and we're going to tell you if your neighborhood is in harm's way. Weather's up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: Rough weather yesterday. I was just telling Chad, I flew over this yesterday coming back from Denver. And you know, as would happen, right when they serve coffee, boom, we're all over the plane.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hard to fly around...

GRIFFIN: Yes.

MYERS: ... when it went all the from almost Nebraska all the way down to Texas. Right? And so they tried to go through in between them, but here's some of the pictures from yesterday. Because there's no reason just to look at us. Because the pictures are so amazing from what came out of Oklahoma yesterday. Up near Hennessey, Oklahoma.

This was KWTV, Channel 9 in Oklahoma City. They were flying through this. Same guy that flew, basically, through the storm in Norman last week. Look at that cone. Now, it's a white tornado. Maybe you don't remember that when you were a kid? The White Tornado used to clean things. Isn't that...

GRIFFIN: Yes.

MYERS: A white tornado. Yes. It's actually white because a tornado picks up the color of whatever it's picking up. And because the winter wheat is in full -- full bloom here, it wasn't picking up much dirt. So it didn't turn into this black tornado.

I've seen Oklahoma tornadoes turn red because of that red soil that, if you get it in your clothes, never comes out.

And then from KOCO, this is ground pictures of the same storm. There were 25 or more reports of tornadoes yesterday. But, Drew, we only believe that there were probably only about six real tornadoes. But you have ten people looking at the same storm from different directions. All of a sudden it's three south of Hennessey or two north of Mobile.

GRIFFIN: Got you.

MYERS: And it ends up being the same storm, but people are looking at it from different directions so you get different -- you know, different numbers.

GRIFFIN: Right.

MYERS: A higher number of reports than number of tornadoes.

Last week, though, a couple -- it might have been ten days ago -- we did have a bunch of F-3 tornadoes, 150, 140 miles per hour. And then one was upgraded to an F-4, which could be almost 180 miles per hour. I don't think we're going to get any that were this strong this time.

GRIFFIN: And today, nothing?

MYERS: Today we have a new tornado watch right over North Texas. And so we'll -- it's not the potential like we had yesterday. But yesterday was a high-risk day. We should have had 30 tornadoes. We only had six. It's not an exact science, buddy.

GRIFFIN: Good, good. All right. Chad Myers.

MYERS: Tar balls? Next hour, we will talk about...

GRIFFIN: How much...

MYERS: Loop current. We will talk about how the oil could get down into the Keys and how that could affect a lot more people than what it's affecting now.

GRIFFIN: Whew, hope not. Chad, thanks a lot. We'll see you in a little bit.

MYERS: OK. All right.

GRIFFIN: Coming up next, this guy claims he was al Qaeda's operative in Iraq, in Baghdad. He called himself the governor of Baghdad. Iraqi forces caught up with him. And now CNN has an exclusive interview with this guy. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRIFFIN: We've got developing news now on that oil spill. We are talking about the live feed that BP has been having trouble, apparently, getting to us so we could see this oil spill live. Brianna Keilar, who is in our nation's capital, I guess you're in the rotunda there in the Senate bidding.

Brianna, what's going on? We now are able to see this live?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, and it's interesting. A whole month later we are going to be able to see it live in a matter of moments. And night now lawmakers are able to see it live.

We were over in the offices of the Senate energy -- or pardon me, environment and public works committee, looking at a live feed coming in. I'm actually going to try to see if I can see the video along with you.

But I want you just to listen to hear what the chairwoman of this committee, Barbara Boxer, as well as Senator Bill Nelson who is there as well, as you know very much a critic of offshore oil drilling. Listen and look and see what we are going to be able to see live in a matter of moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARBARA BOXER (D), CALIFORNIA: We believe we've got it all and are approach now is to make it available to the public, and we think we're very close to announcing how that will be done. What we see here is clearly -- I just call it a nightmare. And, Bill, why don't you show --

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: Sure. This is at the wellhead. You can see how much is escaping there. This is at the end of the pipe that they call the riser. This is the same location in both of these from two different submersibles. This black pipe here was the pipe that they stuck in to suck the oil out.

Now, you can see the pipe going in. You can see how much oil is continuing to escape. BP has just announced this morning, as reported by AP, and I quote, "BP conceded Thursday that more oil is estimated to be gushing into the Gulf than they had previously."

Now, this particular location, we've gone back through the archives, and this is where they have put the dispersant in, at the wellhead. EPA ceased at midnight last night the dispersant. They have put in a great deal of dispersant, and we have put archival photographs of that on our Web site so that you can see the dispersant just spewing into this, which is another confirmation that they were putting way too much in and the EPA has said stop it. And that was done at midnight last night.

BOXER: And the EPA is looking for a less toxic dispersant, which does raise the question of how much of this toxic dispersant was there. I think the main reason we're here is to say, you know, to the media and to the American people that the truth needs to be told. And many scientists told both of us privately that from the little they did see of the film, they that didn't think the truth was being told about the amount of oil that's getting out of here.

At some point, we need to stop all this cover-up. You know, Bill and I come from states that rely on a beautiful ocean, a beautiful coast. Our fishermen rely on it, our tourism industry, our recreation industry, all relies on this. Many, many jobs. Hundreds of thousands of jobs are at stake, as well as an obligation that we both feel we have to future generations to leave this place at least in as good a shape as we got it.

And so, this is very serious. EPA has already called it "a disastrous spill." We believe that it is. And any attempt to cover this up will be met with fierce opposition from us. And I speak for many senators on this point. And this is just the first step in getting to the truth. But I think the most telling one is this one that Bill pointed to where you see so little of the oil being diverted off into a little tube. It's just not working. It's just not working.

NELSON: Why did it take Barbara and me to have to pound the table to get the truth? Remember, they first said that it was only a thousand barrels a day, and then they admitted it was 5,000, and then they --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right. So, Drew, what you are seeing there -- I mean, this is taped but when we were standing in that room, those were live pictures. Eight different cameras there near the seafloor of these oil leaks.

And if you listen to what Senator Boxer, the chairwoman of the Environment and Public Works committee and what Senator Bill Nelson of Florida are saying they're very skeptical of offshore oil drilling. One from California, one from Florida. So, keep that in mind because what they are talking about there is they feel, like we heard Senator Boxer say, she feels there has been a cover-up.

It has been a month since this explosion, and today we're going to be seeing the first live pictures. That is a sneak peek of what they are going to look like. Really pretty amazing. Many different views coming from underwater submersibles. A lot more detail and just a lot more comprehensive than what we've seen, Drew.

But keeping in mind, the reason those expert say those pictures are so important is because they say taking a look at those pictures makes it possible for them to determine exactly how much oil is coming out of these leaks.

Remember, initially, BP estimated it was at 1,000 barrels per day. The estimate was then bumped up to 5,000 barrels per day. And that is the assumption that everyone's kind of been operating on now for weeks. Then we hear from experts most recently that it could be more than that, could be ten times that. And they say without those live pictures, without a lot of comprehensive data which BP is now releasing, they can't do that determination. That's why this is so important when you see this, Drew.

GRIFFIN: Brianna, very quickly -- very quickly -- because the cover-up charge is pretty damning. But at any time was this video not available to the government watchdogs, the overseers? We're just talking about the public displays as video. Is that correct?

KEILAR: Yes, this is the public display. It's a little spotty, to be honest, because we've been hearing from some government officials that they have requested this. We've certainly heard, I can speak at least from my sources here on the Hill on some of these committees that they have been looking for this video, and they've only been getting it recently --

GRIFFIN: OK.

KEILAR: -- and that they have been told that there have been technical difficulties in getting it to them. But at least when you talk to some of these Democrats, Drew, they are skeptical.

GRIFFIN: Yes. Well, they have political agendas, especially in California and Florida. These two senators have been at it for awhile, as you pointed out, Brianna. Thank you so much for that. We'll continue to follow this developing news, the live feed from the oil well, the oil leak.

We've all seen and heard the grainy Internet videos from these al Qaeda leaders, but we don't often see these leaders taking questions from reporters. Well, this week CNN's Fred Pleitgen was the first Western television journalist to interview a recently captured Baghdad commander of the group al Qaeda in Iraq. It was made available by the Iraqi government to CNN and to Arabic language media to show just how far the fight against terrorism has gone in Iraq.

Well, as part of security procedures, the Iraqi government screened this interview out of fear that this al Qaeda leader might be sending a hidden message in his answers, and they asked us not to use a portion of the interview.

Our Fred Pleitgen is standing by live for news Baghdad. Fred, fascinating story, fascinating interview. As a skeptic, and I must ask you, is this the real deal? Is this guy really who he says he is?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, certainly the U.S. tells us, the U.S. forces here in Iraq, Drew, tell us he is the real deal. The Iraqi forces tell us he is the real deal. The Iraqi government tells us the same. He himself admits that that he is the so-called governor of Baghdad, or was the so-called governor of Baghdad for al Qaeda and Iraq. What our viewers have to know is that this man has the blood of hundreds of people on his hands. Many of them, of course, Iraqis, but also Americans as well.

Now, one of the things I confronted him with in the interview we had is what al Qaeda and Iraq is actually still fighting for. Because American forces, as we know, are going to be leaving this country very soon. Why are they trying to continue their fight? Let's listen in to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN (on camera): What are they fighting for then, if it's not against the Americans. What's al Qaeda in Iraq fighting for? Because the Americans are leaving.

MUNAF AL-RAWI, FORMER BAGHDAD COMMANDER OF AL QAEDA IN IRAQ (via translator): They're fighting for control of the country. This is the reason for the fight.

PLEITGEN: There's so many innocent people who die in all that. How do you justify that? Women, children -- not only that they die in the attacks, but that you use them for attacks? You used women to kill people, you used children to kill people. How do you justify that?

AL-RAWI (via translator): First of all, with regards to the use of women, they use women, and the justification is that women and men can fight alike.

As for children, I'm not aware of young children being used for bombings. But women are used in operations. As for the people getting killed because of these bombings and these operations, we did not mean killing women or children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN: One of the interesting things that he said, Drew, is he says with the recent security gains here in Iraq, he felt that as commander or as the Wally, as he calls it, of Baghdad for al Qaeda in Iraq, it has become between 80 and 100 percent harder for this organization to operate here. He says they've had to go into hiding, that it has become more difficult acquire bombs, it's become more difficult to acquire suicide bombers. So he says the whole work has become much more difficult. But you could during the entire interview that this was really a very ruthless man, the way he detailed how he conducted some of these very deadly plots.

GRIFFIN: And Fred, that question you posed and his answer, quite frankly, about innocent civilians and we didn't mean to kill them was pathetic. I mean, these guys have driven bombs directly into these marketplaces where there's nothing but women and children, and innocent civilians.

PLEITGEN: Yes, yes. Exactly. And that's one of the things that we also confronted him with.

We told him, listen, you're telling us that you never wanted to target civilians and you're sorry about the civilians. But at the same time you conducted the attacks. And if you were sorry the first time why did you do it the second time, the third time, the fourth, fifth, and so and so many times? And all he had to say was that he's very sorry about it, that he didn't mean to kill civilians.

I did get the impression that he was trying to sort of salvage himself somewhat there. But then when you heard him again detail the way that he conducted these plots, he described one. Which was a very deadly plot, targeting several ministries here in Baghdad, where well over 100 people were killed. And he said I had to get the explosives first, then I got suicide bombers from the town of Mosul (ph), and just taking people who are willing to kill themselves and just using them as a commodity. It just seemed absolutely incredible, Drew. GRIFFIN: It was a great story. A great interview. I encourage our viewers to take a look if you want to see what a blood-thirsty thug looks like, that's who Fred interviewed in Iraq.

Fantastic stuff. Thanks for that, from Baghdad.

Well, a Picasso masterpiece is gone, snatched from a Paris museum, along with several other precious pieces of art. We're digging into this, Hollywood style. Hear the music? We'll be right back.

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GRIFFIN: Well, now it's time for Crime and Consequences, when we dig deeper into a case, investigation what happened, what comes next and whose been victimized. Well, today to Paris.

Five masterpieces are missing from the Museum of Modern Art, reportedly stolen by a single masked thief. Picasso's work "The Pigeon and the Peas," along with Matisse's "Pastoral," are reportedly among the prized pieces lifted during the multi-million dollar heist. Three other masterpieces also yanked sometime overnight on Wednesday.

Prosecutors initially estimated the value of the paintings at more than $600 million. But a Paris city official puts their worth closer to $123 million. A dollar figure can be hard to pin down because museums, art dealers and art lovers value them differently.

Investigators say the museum security system was disabled. And the thief was caught on surveillance camera, though. Today police are packing frames and searching for clues in searching for the masked suspect who cut a pad lock, smashed through a window, while all three security guards were on duty. Those guards are telling officers they, quote, "saw nothing." The victims in this case are art lovers.

The Art Loss Registry in London, calls this one of the biggest heists ever, considering the value of the paintings, the high profile of the museum, and the big name pieces of artwork targeted. Here's a sad twist. The director of a neighboring art museum calls the paintings unsellable because no collector would buy them and risk arrest. He called the art thief an imbecile, one that's due for a brush from the law.

Well, getting a check of our top stories. A jobs markets still showing how volatile it can be. New unemployment claims jumped to 471,000 last week. That's according to the Labor Department. Many economists had expected those claims to fall.

Wall Street reform has failed in the Senate again, falling short by just three votes but Democratic leaders are forging ahead. They have scheduled another vote for next hour in a bid to push the legislation forward. Democrats need 60 "yes" votes to move this ahead.

And North Korea is denying that it fired a torpedo, sinking a South Korean warship in March, that killed 46 South Korean sailors. But the issue likely just moved to the top of the agenda for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton who's heading out on a three-nation Asia tour. She left just hours after South Korea released a report blaming the North. The White House is calling the attack a, quote, "act of aggression."

A revolutionary new airplane that uses 70 percent less jet fuel. Could it eventually make your flight cheaper? We're going to talk with the lead designer on that. Stay with us.

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We want to bring you right to pictures we're getting in now. This is a live feed from British Petroleum, BP, on the oil leak. That's a mile down under the sea. This is what they've been promising to deliver us today. It's now being delivered.

We're going to have much more on this view, where it is, what it's showing. I believe from what the Senators say, we're looking at where that tube that is supposed to extract system of this oil has been injected. We'll get more on that as it comes through. But again, this just coming in to us now. This is live from BP of the oil leak, literally as it is happening below the Gulf of Mexico.

Now we want the get to our segment we called The Big I, the big idea. New ideas, innovations that will impact your world. We're talking about planes that use 70 percent less fuel than the commercial airliner uses right now.

Let's just lay it out for you. Just last year ten million flights flew around the world, and to get around the world those planes used 16 billion gallons of jet fuel. It costs $30 billion to do that.

Well, could that fuel cost and fuel use be cut by 70 percent? Maybe, thanks to designers at MIT and specifically, Mark Drela, the man you're about to meet, the chief designer from MIT, who has got a new idea for a new plane.

Mark, and as a guy who flies a lot, this one looks weird. We're going to put it up a our big screen and you can just tell us exactly what it is. The Double Bubble -- Mark.

MARK DRELA, DEPARTMENT OF AERONAUTICS, MIT: OK. Yes, this is the -- one of the two primary airplanes that we looked at during this design study. The Double Bubble essentially is a slightly different layout for conventional jetliner. It's two fuselages side by side and cross-section it's looks like two soap bubbles put together, hence the name. And it has a lot of numerous features that allow it to burn considerably less fuel than a conventional jetliner of similar size and capacity.

GRIFFIN: For the average viewer who has not gone to MIT or done any kind of study in design, it's much wider and does that mean it gets a better lift and easier lift off the ground?

DRELA: The fuel -- the fuselage width -- well, the fuselage is wider for a number of reasons. One of the reason is it carries partially -- some of the airplane weight that normally would be carried by the wings, it's carried by the fuselage, that allows the entire airplane to be lighter. That's one of the features that allows it to burn so much less fuel.

There are also a lot of secondary reasons for it. It has better aerodynamic properties for stability that allows the tail to shrink, then you can shrink the engines and it all snowballs. And all these little pieces add up to a very big fuel burn reduction.

GRIFFIN: I read about the projections if and when the plane gets developed and gets into the air, we're talking about the year 2035. How realistic is this that we're going to see a significant change in design in your airliners that we use, and that they will use, indeed, 70 percent or perhaps 50 percent less fuel?

DRELA: Well, we actually developed several versions of this airplane. The one that you've seen in the various news is actually sort of the most advanced one, the farthest out there, if you will, and that has also the biggest savings. It also has the most risk, because it uses materials and engines that are forecast but don't exist yet.

However, we do have near-term versions, which are a little more modest, perhaps 40 percent, 50 percent less fuel. However, they're made from conventional materials and technologies. So, those could be brought online much sooner, perhaps within ten years even. It's difficult to say.

GRIFFIN: Any performance loss in terms of either speed or carrying capacity with these planes?

DRELA: Well, one of the -- one of the features of this airplane, it's intentionally made about 8 percent to 10 percent slower, and that actually translates to very large fuel savings. That's a big part of the 70 percent or 50 percent.

And it turns out there are several features of the airplane that offset much of that. For example, because it's a twin aisle, it will load and unload faster and turns out you can make up quite a bit of the slower speed at the airport so to speak. So, the fact that it's slower doesn't necessarily translate to a longer trip time, at least for domestic flights.

GRIFFIN: Mark Drela, we wish you and your team luck in trying to change that industry and certainly change the amount of fuel that they use in the air as we're trying to develop better ways to get around the world.

Mark Drela, thank you so much, from MIT.

DRELA: Thank you.

GRIFFIN: Big news in the world of cycling. Do you remember that guy, Floyd Landis, the cycler who was accused for so long of using performance enhancing drugs? Well, now, he admits it, and he's admitting something else. He's actually accusing one of the biggest stars in the game of doing the same thing. Stick around.

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GRIFFIN: Disgraced 2006 Tour de France winner Floyd Landis reportedly admitting now that he used performance enhancing drugs, saying he wants to clear his conscience. Landis was stripped of his 2006 Tour de France title for doping, yet always denied cheating until now. He recently sent e-mails to cycling officials and sponsors that detail his drug use and performance enhancing methods.

He's accusing former teammates of doping as well, including Lance Armstrong. The seven-time Tour de France winner is now responding, just an hour ago.

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LANCE ARMSTRONG, SEVEN-TIME TOUR DE FRANCE WINNER: We have nothing to hide. We have nothing to run from. If anybody has any questions, we'd be more than happy to answer them. I have to remind everybody that this is a man who has been under oath several times and had a different version.

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GRIFFIN: That's Lance Armstrong just a little while ago in California. But we want to take a close look at what Landis is now saying he did, what he cheated. See if we can do this right here.

First he's saying that he did blood doping. Transfusions of blood, harvest blood from reinjection before a race. Can you believe he did this? He also says he did this EPO stuff which is a blood booster, delivers more oxygen to muscles, more oxygen means more fuel. Your body can produce more energy. Testosterone injections, patches, pills, creams, builds up and fortifies muscles. And human growth hormone, this has been big in the news lately, too. Reduces fat mass, builds more lean muscle, very, very difficult to detect.

This is what Landis says he did. Landis says he spent $90,000 a year on this doping regimen.

Well, take a look at these live pictures from BP. This is actually one of the leaks you are looking at right now. That is live. Full details on the massive leak coming in our next hour.

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