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Tough Fight in Afghanistan; President Obama at West Point; Air India Crash; Texas Textbook Controversy

Aired May 22, 2010 - 11:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: There, you've just heard the President of the United States deliver the commencement address to 1,000 cadets; those graduates at the West Point, the prestigious West Point Academy in New York, telling them what they have to look ahead.

Certainly, giving updates really about what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan, but also put pressure on the folks who are not in uniform, talking about the need for civilians to take up responsibility as well in strengthening and indeed keeping this country safe.

But the President there just wrapping up. We're going to talk more about the President's speech in just a moment with our Kate Bolduan. She's standing by for us in Washington, D.C.

But for right now, welcome to you all. We're just about five minutes past the top of the hour here in Atlanta. Welcome to those of you who are possibly just joining us as you see the president wrapping up there.

I want to tell you about some of the other stories we are keeping an eye on; some of the headlines including out of India, a developing story where 158 people on an Air India flight to Mangalore are feared dead after their plane skidded off the runway. Off an embankment as well and caught on fire.

Officials in India say they don't think weather or visibility was a factor.

And speaking of the President just a moment ago he is naming former EPA Administrator William Riley and former Florida Senator Bob Graham to lead a bipartisan panel to investigate the Gulf oil spill.

Also in Texas, the schoolbooks there might look a little different soon after the state school board decided to vote yesterday to approve some changes, some controversial changes that some say are going to give the curriculum a bit of a conservative slant. Others say it's simply balancing things out a bit.

But we do want to get back to the President vowing to build American strength and influence around the world. He says the U.S. will win the war on terror. He outlined his plans last hour in that commencement speech. You saw it just wrapped up, talking to the graduates at West Point Academy in New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: This is the ninth consecutive commencement that has taken place at West Point with our nation at war. This time of war began in Afghanistan; a place that may seem as far away from this peaceful bed in the Hudson River as anywhere on earth.

The war began only because our own cities and civilians were attacked by violent extremists who plotted from a distant place, and it continues only because that plotting persists to this day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Let's bring in our Kate Bolduan.

Kate, the President there talking to certainly a captive audience, because their future are going to be, many of them, going to be spending time in Afghanistan, in Iraq, but he also made a point of saying that no time in human history has a nation of diminished economic vitality maintained its military and political primacy, talking about civilians.

We have a role to play here as well.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes there was a lot that we heard in the speech and we kind of expected that we would hear this. President Obama, you really -- you really nailed it, T.J.

He traveled to West Point not only to do very important job of congratulating the graduating class there, but also to discuss kind of the state of play on many fronts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and also to outline some of the broad principles that will be part of the President's national security strategy.

This is -- the White House has said that's going to be released sometime next week. And this is a very big report that lays out what the president's approach is to foreign policy. Kind of laying out his priorities, really laying it out there and showing where his laser focus is.

As we're looking through this speech and as we were all listening some of the broad themes that you're hearing throughout that and you'll hear that as we continue through the next week is continuing a strong fight against extremism as well as continuing a campaign to disrupt, dismantle and defeat al Qaeda and its affiliates and also to stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

Nonproliferation is a big -- has been a big priority of this president and this administration as well as securing nuclear materials. President Obama also talked about and this also an important theme that I think we'll hear more about, T.J. You just mentioned it. The idea of soft power, providing more civilian support in places like Iraq and Afghanistan as well as increasing diplomatic engagement around the world.

So really, you're getting kind of a sense here today, if you want to -- if you want to kind of shorthand it and say the President's is kind of road testing his message, you're hearing some of the broad themes of what you're going to -- what we're going to see in the President's national security strategy that should be released this week. And it is multifaceted, as you can see.

HOLMES: It absolutely is. And certainly and people often think that it's up to the military always to keep this country safe, and he kind of really put it back, the onus in a lot of ways back on civilians, those of us not in uniform to still protect us.

And one other thing, Kate, that I just thought frankly was cool here. That he said for the first time in the academy's history, the top two awards were earned by female cadets.

BOLDUAN: Yes. I'm sure that's not part of the national security strategy to be sure.

HOLMES: It's not.

BOLDUAN: But gosh darn it, as a woman, I am very proud of that. So congratulations to those two women. That is absolutely fabulous. I mean, he also -- he said, there were a couple little factoids that's were fascinating, T.J.

HOLMES: Yes.

BOLDUAN: This is the ninth consecutive speech where the commencement -- where this has been a nation at war. That's astonishing and amazing. But also on the flip side and on a very positive point we should end on the two women getting top honors. And I'm very proud of that to hear that. So congratulations to them.

HOLMES: One is the number one overall cadet, the other, the valedictorian. Liz Betterbed (ph) and Alex Rosenberg (ph), we'll give them both a shout-out right now.

BOLDUAN: Absolutely.

HOLMES: But congratulations. First time in their history. Kate Bolduan, its good we ended on a positive note. Thank you so much, we'll talk to you again soon.

BOLDUAN: Thanks T.J., all right.

HOLMES: Another big story we are -- been keeping an eye on to the past several hours here. A developing story, that tragedy in India; at least 158 people are feared dead after an Air India jetliner overshot a runway, crashed and burst into flames, just a handful of survivals -- survivors that we know of.

The plane was on its way from Dubai to Mangalore. CNN's Liz Neisloss is on the phone with us now from the crash site. Liz, if you can, just give us an update, kind of -- kind of give us an idea of what you're seeing in this -- what we're told is a pretty difficult area that many of the rescuers were trying to navigate through a hilly and woody area.

LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It certainly is difficult. What I'm looking at are bits and pieces of charred plane wreckage. They are buried along a ravine in basically a jungle area. And I'm standing just a few feet away from the wreckage. There are lots of spectators, lots of officials, but the rescue, the body recovery work has finished.

And I was just told by one official that there were eight survivors, two of them in serious condition. The rest in varying conditions, but the amazing thing, when this plane broke on the runway, before it careened off and down into a ravine, there was one survivor who managed to somehow get out of the plane and was found walking around dazed but with barely a few scratches.

This official described it as a miracle. But unfortunately, the majority of the passengers did die, and they died in the flames, in the flames that -- the plane burst into flames as soon as it hit this ravine -- T.J.

HOLMES: Liz, another thing, a lot of people were asking questions immediately afterward. And a lot of people assumed and speculated that maybe they've been having some tough weather. They talked about how it could have been raining and the visibility was low. And also just how tricky many say because of the terrain, the topography there, how difficult it is to land at this airport.

What are officials there now saying about a possible cause of this accident?

NEISLOSS: Well, officials are really looking for the black box, and that's where they are hoping to get answers. That's what they are still looking for, and haven't found yet.

At this point, what seems apparent is that the weather was not a major factor. A pilot that I have spoken to have said, yes, this is a challenging runway. There are cliffs on either end of the runway, but as one American pilot who flies for and Indian Airline told me, "Look, you find this in many different parts ever the world."

So while it is tricky, it is not something totally unusual what could have been a factor was a strong tail wind, perhaps the speed of the plane causing it to overshoot the runway. What happened, the plane did touch down, but it kept going. It kept going at a fast speed. It burst through a wall at the end of the runway and then kept going until it landed in a ravine, and when it burst through that wall at the end of the runway, the right wing sheared off, the plane broke open and then it burst into flames -- T.J.

HOLMES: All right, Liz Neisloss, again, from the crash site, Liz, thank you so much for that update. We'll try to check back in with you.

Meanwhile, you just saw it here live. President Obama talking about war strategy at West Point, talking to the cadets there; he talked about his strategy, outlined it a little bit. But are Americans onboard with it? We're looking into that.

Also, we're taking a hard look at the potential political consequences of Rand Paul's remarks on the Civil Rights Act.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We could be moving into the next phase of that oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. BP is going to try next week a new method, a top kill is what it's called, to try to possibly stop that leak from taking place. This has been a big topic and a political topic. It's slowly but surely becoming such a big topic that both the President and the Republicans were talking about it in their respective weekly addresses.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On Friday I signed an executive order establishing the national commission on the BP- Deepwater Horizon oil spill and offshore drilling. While there are a number of ongoing investigations including an independent review by the National Academy of Engineering, the purpose of this commission is to consider both the root causes of the disaster and offer options on what safety and environmental precautions we need to take to prevent a similar disaster from happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DAVID VITTER (R), LOUISIANA: I guess it's typical of the culture in Washington for politicians to believe that they can solve an ongoing crisis with statements and testimonies and Congressional committee rooms. But the time for committee hearings is for after the well has been capped, not before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now today President Obama was talking to the West Point graduates. You saw that a short time ago here live. Some of them about the fight against Taliban insurgents; he said it will be fierce but in the end U.S. and Afghan forces will prevail. The last time the American people were polled, what did they think about the job President Obama was doing in Afghanistan?

CNN deputy political director, Paul Steinhauser joins us with that. So what do American think about how he's handing things?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, let's take a look at these numbers. This is our most recent poll here at CNN, the Public Research Corporation back in March. We asked you, approval or disapproval of the job President during the war in Afghanistan.

Take a look at these numbers. You can see they have risen for the President. Back in October only 42 percent were giving the president a thumbs up on how he was handling the conflict in Afghanistan; up to 55 percent in March. T.J. what changed? We were talking about this earlier this morning. The President was in West Point last December. He went there and that's where he outlined his plans for adding 30,000 more troops to the conflict in Afghanistan.

One thing that was interesting. I heard you and Kate talking about the speech earlier this hour. One thing that stood out in my mind; he talked what is going on in Afghanistan, Iraq and the global war against terror and he kind of tied it to right here in the U.S. on the home front. He said that we will not be successful over there unless we have a strong economy over here. So he's kind of trying to tie the two together; an interesting comment by the President -- T.J.?

HOLMES: You know, it absolutely was. And put a lot of responsibility back on American citizen. It's not just up to the folks in uniform to carry the load of securing this country. It's up to all of us as well. It was. We all kind of jumped on that point that the President was making.

One more thing to you, though, Paul. What do we see come along with these numbers? I mean they go up, they go down as far as the approval goes with the President. Is it simply a matter of what's in the news lately?

STEINHAUSER: It can be what's in the news, and you know, we'll keep continuing to gauge public opinion on Afghanistan. A key thing will be next year, because the President in announcing that plan last December, he talked about starting to pull U.S. troops out of Afghanistan, starting as early as the summer, I believe, July or August of 2011.

And you remember the big discourse we had in this country over a timetable in Iraq. So you're going to have a similar discussion, I think, probably end of this year and into next year in Afghanistan -- T.J.

HOLMES: Paul Steinhauser, our deputy political director. Good to have you as always. Thanks so much.

STEINHAUSER: Thank you.

HOLMES: Twenty minutes past he hour. Quick break. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Taking a look now at some of the stories making headlines. 158 people feared dead after an Air India flight overshot the runway and crashed, after attempting to land at Mangalore International Airport. This is the video you're seeing from the crash site. We're told that seven people survived.

Let's go to Texas now, where schoolbooks will soon take on a more conservative tilt according to some as the state's school board votes to approve changes to social studies and history textbooks. They made those changes just last night. A California produce company is recalling its alfalfa sprout after the CDC flagged them as a possible source of nation-wide salmonella outbreak. Twenty-two people in 10 states have gotten sick. Four had to be hospitalized, no deaths associated with it, however.

Well, the Texas textbook fight. It's a state issue, but it has come into the national spotlight. You think after they voted yesterday it was decided and it's over, but the debate goes on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Well the plans to tweak history and social studies textbooks in Texas started a national debate. We're going to be hearing from the president of the NAACP and also a supporter of the changes in a moment. First, we give you the update now from one of our affiliates, News 8 Austin's Karina Kling (ph). She has the update on the story.

KARINA KLING, NEWS 8 AUSTIN, TEXAS: Yes, T.J., the state board of education voted 9-5 to adopt new social studies and history standards for Texas schoolchildren in all grade levels. It's been a process full of battles over political ideologies and a board split by political parties, but Friday the social conservative majority came out on top.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KLING (voice-over): A few smiles from state board of education members early Friday morning as a show choir from the Fort Worth area serenaded them before the anticipated final battle over a final vote on social studies standards began. It didn't take long for that tone to turn around and emotions to run high.

PAT HARDY, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: I love kids, and I think when we start doing things that make life more difficult for children, we're doing them wrong. I think that's where we are.

KLING: After more than an hour debating whether to include Thomas Jefferson and James Madison in high school world history standards dealing with influential philosophers, board members kept Jefferson, but not Madison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is embarrassing. This is totally embarrassing.

KLING: Criticisms over last-minute amendments and nitpicking word changes throughout the curriculum reached late afternoon Friday as the outnumbered Democratic contingent once again called for a delay to let the appointed experts, not the board, make the final decision on a document they say is a completely new piece of work.

RICK AGOSTO, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: This thing belongs in the trash.

MARY HELEN BERLANGA, SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER: These books, oh, we don't want to read these. My gosh. They deal with Hispanics, Hispanic issues -- KLING: The debate surrounding religious freedoms surfaced yet again as some Democrats tried to add the wording barring the government from favoring one religion over another in reference to separation of church and state. It failed. And one by one --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to finish. We're done today.

KLING: The seven social conservatives and one other shot down any vote to delay, and shortly thereafter, an exhausted and divided board made their own history in voting to approve what will be in Texas kids' history books for the next ten years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLING: New economic standards were also approved Friday, but with a unanimous vote. Over two days of board debate, more than 200 new amendments were offered up by board members. Those who wanted to delay say they will try to take up this issue again in January when a new board is in place. Back to you, T.J.

HOLMES: All right.

This has been a very emotional, passionate debate from both sides. We're going to hear now from both sides of the debate in this controversy.

Earlier today I talked to the NAACP president and CEO Ben Jealous as well as Jonathan Signs, he's director of legislative affairs for the Liberty Institute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Just tell me - there were so many things that were talked about leading up to the vote yesterday, but, as you've examined what actually was voted on and approved, tell me specifically what you have a problem with that the board did yesterday.

BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT, NAACP: Sure. This group wants the Tea Party to teach our kids. You know, they - they want to defend Joe McCarthy, as if that is up for debate. They want to say, you know, have kids think about whether the U.N. is a threat to human freedom. They - there's a slant that the U.N. is a threat to human freedom. They want to lift up Phyllis Schlafly as if she's one of the great heroes in a very short list of heroes in our country.

You know, that's the concern here. You know, they - they want to take the word slavery out of the transatlantic slave trade, and so there's this weird kind of slant where they lift up people who hate, and they - and they take some of the hardest parts of our history out.

They don't want kids to know why Texas joined the south to fight in the Civil War. So I mean, it's a -

HOLMES: Well, let me get - let me get Jonathan in here. Now, Jonathan, I know you're going to take issue with - with several those things. And, again, this is law, and I - I encourage, we need to find a way to post this for everybody to read.

But there's so much in these amendments to - to read, but I will let you take up and just go ahead and respond initially to what Ben just said. But then, also, a couple particular points I want to hit at as well. But you go ahead, Jonathan.

JONATHAN SAENZ, LIBERTY INSTITUTE: Sure. Thank you for having me on.

You know, this is interesting, because we see this a lot in a lot of other issues. You heard the Education Secretary weigh in, who I'm sure probably hasn't read our standards. A lot of people that haven't read the standards, a lot of people haven't read what was approved yesterday, and that's unfortunate, and that's how misinformation is spread.

And the reality is, you know, we have strong standards that parents, teachers, experts and professors from across the state are supporting, and, you know, talk about balance -

HOLMES: But that involved -

SAENZ: -- what's not talked about is yesterday they've been absolutely involved in this from every step of the way. And he was -

JEALOUS: You threw out everything that -

HOLMES: Hold on one second, Ben. Hold on one second, Ben.

Jonathan, you finish up and Ben I'll let you get back in there. Jonathan, finish up for me.

SAENZ: Earlier this week, Wallace Jefferson, the first African- American Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court was added. Sonia Sotomayor, the first Hispanic female Justice of the United States Supreme Court was put into our standards.

And there's some misinformation about the slave trade that Mr. Jealous brought up. That issue was dealt with yesterday and the day before. It seems there were some confusion on how it was worded, and so the board voted unanimously to have it listed as a transatlantic slave trade.

JEALOUS: (INAUDIBLE).

HOLMES: Ben - Ben, you tell me what you were taking issue with there.

JEALOUS: Sure. Right up until yesterday they had sought to renamed the slave trade the transatlantic triangular trade and take the people out of it, and take slavery out of it. That's part of why we flew down there, so I'm glad to hear that last night they moved on that point.

SAENZ: This process - now, on that point -

HOLMES: You know what, let me get in here. I want to make sure, because I - I read this thing as well and I did see Atlantic triangular trade in there, but then in the next almost couple of words, I saw the words slavery and there are other points where you -

JEALOUS: Right, it says, "and slavery".

HOLMES: "And slavery". But go ahead. What - now, what is the issue with that? And you call it a triangular trade, and then you - you're still talking about slavery and you use the word slavery. What - what's the issue?

JEALOUS: Euphemism. It's a euphemism. The reality is that slaves were central to that trade. There's a reason why it's called the transatlantic slave trade. And you take them out, you call it the triangular trade and all of a sudden people are put on the same level as rum and sugarcane and - and everything else.

That's - it's - there's a reason why you call it the transatlantic slave trade.

HOLMES: Now, Jonathan, isn't that a point there? Jonathan, isn't that at least a point? Why - why even change that name? I think we all came up calling this the slave trade. So why was it important?

Even though you got slavery in the curriculum, the word, why - why make that type of a change?

SAENZ: Sure. And that's the point I'm making. I think there was some confusion on the part of some of the board makers (ph), and that's why there was an opportunity on Thursday to talk about that, and that's when they talked about this issue. Everyone got on the same page, voted unanimously. The process worked.

And so, that was before -

JEALOUS: No, it didn't work.

SAENZ: -- the standards were final.

Yes, it did work.

JEALOUS: No -

SAENZ: All the people were onboard.

And - and, listen, I want to get to the - I want to address this, because -

JEALOUS: The process - the reality is - OK, you threw out the whole process. You threw out the whole process.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Well, there was much more of that debate, much more of that back and forth, and a lot of people are weighing in on this. But a topic on our blog today. We want to know what you think.

You can go to the Facebook.com, also to cnn.com/tj. We have the responses there. Also, we posted a link to the actual State Board of Education website there in Texas to where you can pull up and read all of the amendments and changes yourself. It's a lot of reading, but you can take it up for yourself to - to educate yourself and find out exactly what the changes were.

Well, Bonnie Schneider is here with us this weekend. She's tracking some of that stormy weather that's taking place out there. Your forecast, coming next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a Wednesday afternoon at Gospel Water Branch Baptist Church near Augusta, Georgia, but some parishioners aren't here just for the Gospel, they're here to lose weight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't drink any sodas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ate more salads, even ate raw vegetables.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really made a big effort to walk.

GUPTA: It's called the Fit Body and Soul program, initially part of a study by the Medical College of Georgia, and now an indispensable program for churchgoers and community members alike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we do not want our health, our weight to hinder us from doing what You have willed for us to do in this world.

YVONNE DENT, FIT BODY & SOUL INSTRUCTOR: We're trying to educate folks on the point of, you know, the high incidence of diabetes, hypertension, cardiac disease, cancer and stuff amongst African- Americans.

GUPTA: The tenets are simple -- diet, exercise, food journaling and community support, all of it resting on the backbone of faith.

DENT: In everything that we do, we always pray, you know? We're here to support each other with prayer and with Scripture.

GUPTA: And the results? They've been promising.

RODNEY EDMOND, ASSOCIATE PASTOR: I lost 30 pounds. My wife lost about 25 pounds doing the whole thing. Blood pressure went down, cholesterol level went down, so we were very pleased.

JOYCE RAMSEY, PASTOR'S WIFE: My goal was like seven to eight pounds, but I've reached 10 pounds, and I've kept it off like a year and a half.

GUPTA: But Pastor Robert Ramsey says there's no secret to their success.

PASTOR ROBERT RAMSEY, WATER BRANCH BAPTIST CHURCH: Food can be a powerful temptation, and - and you need that inner strength to overcome that temptation. So I think every congregation can do it, and they should endeavor to do it. GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Weather seemingly always severe. Bonnie Schneider keeping an eye on things for us this weekend. We are directing our attention to the tropics, you told me this time, right?

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, and it's really early to be talking about the tropics, I think. Hurricane season begins June 1st, but all indications are that this is going to be a busy and active season. So we're already talking about it, and, man, I want to show you the reason why.

We're taking a look at this system right here, and it doesn't look like much except for maybe a mess of thunderstorms. But what you're looking at right now, the Bahamas over here, just to the east we have an area of disturbed weather. Now, this is known as Invest 90L.

What does that mean? Well, it's an area that the National Hurricane Center is looking into, gathering data to see whether or not this will develop tropically, or subtropically, actually, and it may affect the southeastern part of the U.S. possibly Monday into Tuesday, bringing some wind and rain. But it's still early to say, because right now it hasn't developed into anything, at least not just yet.

However, having said that, we still can show you what it's like looking at some of the computer models that I brought up here on Google Earth. And I know they look like a jumble of different lines and numbers here, but what you're looking at are what we call the spaghetti map. And you may remember this from previous hurricane seasons.

It shows basically all the computer models, and, yes, they are going in all different directions at this point. Here's the low Invest 90L, as I mentioned, and you could see some of the models are taking it towards the U.S., but a lot of them are taking it north, and some are taking it well out to sea.

So, again, it's early to say what will happen with this system. But one of the things that we're looking at primarily with this is that as we go towards Monday into Tuesday, we may see an enhanced area of rip current through this region, as well as possibly some strong waves and maybe some wind in the southeast. But, again, still early to say. We just wanted to give you the heads up.

Incidentally, the first name of this season would be Alex, so we'd start off with the letter A.

Now, not only do we have this, but we've also been monitoring some activity a little bit towards the Caribbean, and this activity towards the Western Caribbean could develop into something as well. So things are starting to get kind of active, even though hurricane season has not officially started. Now, as we take a look at what's happening across the U.S., we're also tracking some other big stories. You can see we have hot temperatures across much of the south, and it's really in this area here in the desert southwest that we have a concern possibly for fire danger. We have hot temperatures and strong gusting winds erupting over Southern Nevada, into parts of New Mexico, as well as Arizona, so this is an area we're watching, possibly, for the risk of fire danger.

Elsewhere across the country, it's actually looking like a pretty nice weekend. You can see across Boston we have 60 degrees, and in New York City, 78. So, overall, it's looking good, but our eyes are always on the tropics.

And, T.J., a little bit of trivia for you.

HOLMES: All right.

SCHNEIDER: Can you guess what the letter B name is for this hurricane season? I'll give you a hint.

HOLMES: Bonnie?

SCHNEIDER: You're looking right at her.

HOLMES: I'm looking at her.

But Invest 90L could become Alex?

SCHNEIDER: Yes. It could be - it could be Alex, or possibly what we're watching in the Caribbean. But, you know, again, it's very possible to have a subtropical storm before the season begins.

HOLMES: All right. Busy season, not a good - good sign.

SCHNEIDER: No.

HOLMES: All right. Bonnie, thank you so much.

SCHNEIDER: Sure.

HOLMES: Well, coming up, face to face with a terrorist. CNN's Frederik Pleitgen, he did just that in an exclusive interview with a captured al Qaeda leader in Iraq. You're going to see that report in just a moment.

But first, the economy. It may still have many rough spots, but in Albuquerque, New Mexico, the solar industry is booming. Tom Foreman has our "Building Up America" report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SINGING).

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With easily more than 300 days of sunshine each year, New Mexico is one of the sunniest states in the country. And there's a wave of solar energy companies coming to set up shop. One of the biggest? Schott Solar.

FOREMAN (on camera): And ever since this German-owned company opened this massive complex on the south side of Albuquerque, they have been energizing the local jobs market.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Amid the whir of robots in this 175,000-square- foot plant, workers are turning out solar cells and related technology as fast as they can and their products are going out the door just as quickly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a growing technology and there's a demand for it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We basically sell everything that we produce.

FOREMAN (on camera): You feel good about it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally, I see a - I see a future here.

FOREMAN (voice-over): It's no accident. Up in the capital, Sante Fe, another fellow believes he can see the future, too.

BILL RICHARDSON (D), GOVERNOR, NEW MEXICO: Am I always right or what?

CHILDREN: Yes.

FOREMAN: Governor Bill Richardson is pushing his state hard to recruit more and more solar companies.

RICHARDSON: I've just concentrated like a laser on - on saying any solar entity, please come to New Mexico. We will do everything we can to recruit you. And it's working.

FOREMAN: And the result? Twenty-five hundred new jobs already this year as more companies follow Schott Solar's lead.

Solar is still a tiny sliver of the U.S. energy market, but this state is intent on grabbing a big share of that, convinced it will mean a lot of jobs, money and bright days ahead.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Albuquerque, New Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We have seen al Qaeda leaders in grainy internet videos, but we rarely see them taking questions from reporters.

This week, CNN's Frederik Pleitgen was the first Western TV journalist to interview the recently captured Baghdad commander of al Qaeda in Iraq. Now, Iraqi government made him available to CNN and Arab language media to highlight strides in the fight against terrorism.

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FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was some of the deadliest and most brazen attacks in Baghdad, coordinated suicide bombings that hit several Iraqi ministries last year, killing and wounding hundreds. This man, Munaf al-Rawi, says he was the mastermind.

MUNAF AL-RAWI, BAGHDAD HEAD OF AL QAEDA (through translator): I wrote to my leaders and they send me about $120,000. We bought the trucks and we got the suicide bombers from Mosul. We planned the operation and we executed it.

PLEITGEN: The U.S. military and the Iraqi security apparatus say al- Rawi is a master of terror logistics. He admits he was al Qaeda and Iraq's top commander in Baghdad until he was recently captured by luck at an Iraqi checkpoint like this one.

The Iraqi government allowed CNN to interview him, but we were not allowed to say where the interview took place, and we were asked not to use one portion of the interview for fear he might be sending a secret message.

PLEITGEN (on camera): Tell me the nuts and bolts of what you would do.

AL-RAWI, (through translator): I would get orders always through written notes, transported by couriers. I would get the order to conduct and I would transfer it to all the (ph) military chief in Baghdad.

PLEITGEN: Did you yourself ever at some point think about becoming a suicide bomber yourself? Did you ever think about doing that yourself? You were sending people to do these bombings.

AL-RAWI, (through translator): No.

I didn't force anyone to do it. A suicide bomber will come from the border and get into Iraq to do it. I didn't force anyone to ride a car and conduct a suicide attack.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Al-Rawi says he joined al Qaeda in 2003 to fight the U.S. occupation. The irony, he says American forces at one point had him in custody. He says he was detained after the battle of Fallujah in 2004, but released in 2007. A year later, al-Rawi says, he became a terrorist leader.

At the height of its power, al Qaeda brutally controlled entire towns and parts of the country, but the vicious tactics turned many Iraqis against them.

MAJ. GEN. STEVE LANZA, U.S. FORCES-IRAQI SPOKESMAN: The population has not embraced this ideology of al Qaeda, and that's significant because it really has hindered their ability to conduct operations here in this country.

PLEITGEN: U.S. and Iraqi security forces say information gleaned after al-Rawi's capture, including documents discovered in raided houses, allowed for the killing or capture of dozens more al Qaeda in Iraq leaders.

Al-Rawi says even before his arrest al Qaeda had been driven even further underground.

PLEITGEN (on camera): Is organization falling apart?

AL-RAWI, (through translator): It is 80 to 100 percent harder to operate for al Qaeda these days. Before, we could prepare a car bomb anywhere. There was no opposition. Now, you can't do that. even the place you prepare a car bomb will be discovered.

PLEITGEN (voice-over): Al-Rawi says he felt sorry for civilians. He repeated that he didn't mean to kill civilians, but he insisted he still believes in what he called a Holy War against Americans and al Qaeda's enemy, the Iraqi government, a war al Qaeda in Iraq's new leadership says it is carrying forward.

In the last two weeks, hundreds more have been killed and wounded in brutal attacks across the country, many civilians.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Baghdad.

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HOLMES: All right, from Fred Pleitgen we go to Fredericka.

FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Fred's all over the place.

HOLMES: Fred, good morning to you.

WHITFIELD: How are you? Good to see you, holding down the ship.

HOLMES: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Or keeping the ship afloat, I should say.

HOLMES: That's a better way to put it.

WHITFIELD: That's a better way of putting it. Yes. We're already in (INAUDIBLE), you know.

HOLMES: It's fine. All right.

WHITFIELD: You're doing a great job.

HOLMES: It's been a busy morning.

WHITFIELD: It's been a very busy morning.

HOLMES: Yes, and developments, I'm sure a couple of stories you're going to be keeping an eye on today. WHITFIELD: Yes, including a ton of legal cases, and that's why we loved to lean upon our legal guys, Richard and Avery. They're going to be with us.

Among the cases, Lindsay Lohan. What's going on? Actress stuck in France, she says, but she has a court date come Monday. Our legal guys are going to weigh in on what happens if she doesn't find that passport that the dog ate or that someone took or something happened to it.

HOLMES: She still hasn't made it back?

WHITFIELD: That's correct.

HOLMES: Oh, OK.

WHITFIELD: That's right.

And then we're going to be joined by legal expert, Karen Lee, who's going to be here. You know, this is graduation season. A lot of high school kids getting out of school, college kids wanting to start their lives. But who's talking about finances?

Karen Lee's going to be along with us to say there are four financial lessons you need to teach your kids. You need to equip your kids with these four things as they head off into the real world. Oh, sorry.

HOLMES: Four things and they're good to go?

WHITFIELD: Yes. At least four things.

HOLMES: Don't break anything, though, OK?

WHITFIELD: I'll try not to.

HOLMES: All right.

WHITFIELD: I'll keep everything intact so that tomorrow morning, when you're here, it's all just as you left it.

HOLMES: It's all in one piece.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

HOLMES: Thanks, Fredricka.

You're going to see her in just a second.

WHITFIELD: Have a great day, T.J.

HOLMES: All right.

Well, the dirty details about what the oil is doing - what it's doing to the fish in the gulf. That story just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: You know, still a lot of the questions out there about exactly how the oil disaster in the gulf is going to affect the region. The BP oil disaster certainly could have an impact for years to come.

We're getting new aerial video from the spill site that sheds some new light on the devastation, and scientists are trying to get a handle on the impact but that is not an easy task.

CNN's Rob Marciano went to Gulf Port, Mississippi. He talked to scientists there about how some fish are already being affected.

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ROB MARCIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, wow. This is called -- what exactly am I looking at here?

ERIC HOFFMAYER, BIOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI GULF COAST RESEARCH LAB: Right now you're looking at some larvae of a bluefin tuna, basically bluefin tuna babies.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Dr. Eric Hoffmayer is a biologist at the University of Southern Mississippi Gulf Coast Research Lab. He has a team of scientists currently exploring gulf waters near the oil slick.

HOFFMAYER: They've been out there for about four or five days and it's - it's a (INAUDIBLE) trip.

MARCIANO: Right now their research vessel is near the southern edge of the spill.

Biologist Jim Franks reports from the ship via satellite.

VOICE OF JIM FRANKS, BIOLOGIST: Loop current temperature today was 86 degrees. It's awfully warm.

MARCIANO: It turns out that loop current getting all the press lately does more than just move warm water and potentially oil toward Florida. The current is a breeding ground for lots of marine life, including rare bluefin tuna.

HOFFMAYER: So you've got lots of nutrients (INAUDIBLE) into the loop current, and so it becomes a - a signature for these animals to - to spawn around.

MARCIANO: The gulf is only one of two known bluefin spawning grounds. The other is in the Mediterranean. Hoffmayer says bluefin tuna sushi popularity, especially in Asia, has driven down the population 82 percent.

HOFFMAYER: The problem we have is that they're tremendously over fished.

MARCIANO: Another concern for Hoffmayer's team is whale sharks, the largest fish on the planet. They can grow up to 60 feet long and they also live in the Gulf of Mexico. HOFFMAYER: The - the oil spill is in prime, essential whale shark habitat, primarily feeding habitat, and we're about in prime whale shark season.

MARCIANO (on camera): So this is bad timing?

HOFFMAYER: Very bad timing.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Aquatic toxicologist Dr. Joe Griffitt has been studying the oil and the dispersants closely.

DR. JOE GRIFFITT, AQUATIC TOXICOLOGIST: We have a saying in toxicology, you know, the dose makes the poison. Anything is toxic in high enough concentrations or for long enough exposure period.

MARCIANO: The lab here is full of last year's samples. Biologists wonder if this year's larvae will come back as healthy.

MARCIANO (on camera): I would think that a little guy like this, even if he gets into a - a little bit of sheen, that's - that's not going to make it easy.

HOFFMAYER: It's not, and most of these were collected in the top 10 meters of the water column, so most of these larvae are - are at or near the surface of the water.

MARCIANO: So what does that make you think about when you - you start to hear about sheen getting into the - the loop current where - where these guys are?

HOFFMAYER: It's - it's not going to be good. I mean, it could have tremendous impacts on - on bluefin as well as other species.

MARCIANO (voice-over): Rob Marciano, CNN, Ocean Springs, Mississippi.

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HOLMES: All right. Thanks for hanging with me this morning. Time to hang with her -- Fredricka Whitfield.