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Gulf Oil Spill Continues Worsening; Ken Salazar Speaks About the Gulf Oil Crisis; Infighting Among Civil Rights Group

Aired May 23, 2010 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: The Gulf oil spill continues worsening by the day and as frustration grows, political pressure mounts on the government to take action. A legal expert tells us what, if anything, the Feds can do.

A major scientific breakthrough, researchers create the world's first synthetic cell. This is a discovery that could change life as we know it. The story and the controversy, that's all coming up at 4:00 p.m. Eastern. And coming up at 5:00, President Obama schedules a rare lunch with Republicans. Is anything behind this gesture of bipartisanship? We will get some insight. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM, where the news unfolds live, this Sunday, May 23rd. I'm Tom Foreman.

We are expecting word any moment now from federal officials in Houston on whether all systems are go for the most dramatic attempt yet to seal that gushing oil well. A mile deep in the Gulf of Mexico, a procedure called a top kill. That's a live picture of the leak you're looking at right now. It's been that way for more than a month now. The top kill target is the blowout preventer that sits on top of the well. The plan is to rapidly pump mud in under high pressure. In theory, the mud will clog all of the leaking pipes and then allow a concrete seal to be put into place. It's never been done this deep before and if it works, it will be a technological triumph. If not, it will certainly raise tensions even higher on the Gulf, where concern is growing by the hour.

Listen to what Coast Guard Commandant Thad Allen said earlier today on "State of the Union" with Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THAD ALLEN, COAST GUARD COMMANDANT: BP had to go step-by-step on how they're going to this top kill that's going to be attempted in a couple of days. And all of the assumptions of BP before were questioned by people like John Holdren in the Office of Science and Technology Policy. So as these ideas are brought up, and courses of action are determined, metaphorically being pulled through a knothole by some of the best minds in our country from the Sandia Labs and places like that.

So there is a lot of oversight going on there. What makes this an unprecedented anomalous event is access to the discharge site is controlled by the technology that was used for the drilling, which is owned by the private sector. They have the eyes and ears that are down there. They are necessarily the modality by which this is going to get solved. Our responsibility is to conduct proper oversight to make sure they do that. And with the top kill that will be coming up later on this week, that's exactly what is happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: We are going to have a good bit more on that last statement as we continue. But for right now, EPA chief Lisa Jackson is on the coast today trying to ease the fears of residents there. Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal is doing much of the same. All along the shore, anger this weekend is growing from people that are saying day by day, their livelihoods are sinking fast.

In Panama City, Florida, a new $318 million airport opened this weekend amid much hope for a boost in tourism, the area's number one industry. But local officials are struggling to convince tourists that so far their beaches remain free of oil. Florida Governor Charlie Crist wants BP to pay for a $35 million ad campaign to reassure millions of potential summer tourists that Florida beaches are clean. BP, however, continues to chart its own course.

The EPA told BP to quit using a chemical dispersant on that leak, for fear that the dispersant itself will harm the environment. But BP is saying it's the most effective option for the moment and they will keep using the chemical.

With all of that happening, the political pressure is mounting in Washington too. Let's turn to CNN's Kate Bolduan, who's keeping an eye on that up in D.C. Hi, Kate. What is the situation up there right now?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there, Tom. Well, today the White House is strongly rejecting any criticism that they've been caught flat-footed in the government response to this disaster. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs saying again today, as he has, that they've been down there, the administration, since day one, mobilizing every federal agency for help while maintaining a heavy oversight role in making sure BP does everything possible to stop the leak and clean up the gulf properly. This all as at the same time, the White House continues to point out, Tom, that it is BP's responsibility to do all of this. Listen here to Robert Gibbs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's a lot of criticisms that one can have, certainly for BP, and even for the government, in how we got to this. But I don't think anybody could credibly say, even as frustrated as they are, and as frustrated as we are, that the government has stood around, done nothing, and hoped for the best. We were activated the moment that this oil rig exploded. This has been on the president's agenda every since that happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: So what is Washington doing? Well, the White House announced yesterday that President Obama has formed a special independent commission to investigate the oil spill and figure out how to prevent it from happening again, be it a change in regulation or something else. And two more top Obama administration officials are heading down to the Gulf tomorrow to monitor the efforts and meet with the very frustrated community down there. But you can tell, it is white hot with political pressure right now. Tom?

FOREMAN: That certainly to be the case, Kate, because when the president announces a commission, we all know what that means. That's a study that goes off into months in the future. For the immediate, for this moment right now, it does seem like a lot of people are looking at Washington and saying, why don't you simply take over control and do something about this? The White House, though, so far, is still saying, we're doing what we can, the appropriate amount.

BOLDUAN: They are. And Robert Gibbs was asked about that today, as well as the top commander of the Coast Guard down there, Commandant Admiral Thad Allen. Robert Gibbs saying today that it is still BP's responsibility and it is still the government's role to have a heavy hand in oversight. What does that mean?

It's kind of an ambiguous word, right, oversight? But they say they're making sure they're doing everything they can, as fast as they can, as environmentally safe as they can. You heard from that sound bite you rolled earlier, Tom, really speaks to what the crux of this is. Thad Allen, Admiral Thad Allen, said when it comes down to it, the technology of how they're going to be able to find a solution to this, in short order, relatively speaking, is owned by the private sector, the private oil sector. And that's why Washington, the government, is leaning on BP, because they have the technology to make this happen, while the government is there to make sure they're doing it.

FOREMAN: And yet so far BP hasn't been able to solve the problem. Kate Bolduan, thanks so much.

So much oil, so many questions. Who is really overseeing the clean up and is BP really doing everything it can? And why hasn't the government stepped in? With we are going to press harder on those issues and hopefully we'll find some issues straight ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOREMAN: We are expecting an update any minute from the secretary of the interior and the chief officer for the Coast Guard on the spill in the Gulf and this effort to try to seal it, this dramatic effort we're expecting in just a couple of days here. They're preparing for it frantically down on the Gulf this weekend.

I've had a lot of responses to one of my letters to the president this weekend about the Gulf oil spill. Every day since Barack Obama took office, I've written a letter to him, nearly 500 now. You can find them all at ac360.blogs.cnn.com. And this one clearly stirred folks up with a basic question.

At what point, if any, should the federal government simply elbow BP aside, take over management of the spill, and then give the bill to BP once the well is capped? Let's turn to a man now who can walk us through some of the possible answers, an attorney who specializes in commercial litigation.

His name is James Garner and he joins us on the phone now from New Orleans.

Mr. Garner, thanks for being here and let me start with a very basic question. When the White House suggests that BP has all the tools for dealing with this, they seem to imply that somehow they're hamstrung, that they can't simply step in and say, we're calling all the shots now, it doesn't matter, the tools are ours.

What is the reality?

JAMES GARNER, ATTORNEY (via telephone): The reality is the government has the absolute right and authority to step in. I mean, you know, Southeast Louisiana is part of America the beautiful and the government certainly had no problem stepping in the financial crisis. The government had no problem stepping in on the health care bill, and, you know, that's the why. Kind of like the old saying, lawyer don't represent thyself or doctor don't treat thyself.

One has to question BP's objectivity at this point, and whether it's by conducting the orchestra of engineers around the world, or stepping in with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, the government has absolute right, authority, and I would say responsibility to step in.

FOREMAN: And it seems like one of the issues we're dealing with here is the question of time, aren't we? For the first month, certainly, I guess you couldn't fault any political group for saying, look, we're going to give them time to try to fix it because they do have some expertise. But as the weeks have gone by, it seems like the political pressure has stepped up for people to say, BP does not seem capable of solving this. The argument today that they're the ones with the tools would be the same argument six months from now. When do you draw the line?

GARNER: We're overdue on drawing the line. If they have the tools to do it, they obviously don't know how to use those tools. And as every day passes, you know, we're losing Louisiana. I mean, you talk about losing New Orleans to hurricanes and stuff like natural disasters like this. This oil disaster will take New Orleans from the United States if somebody doesn't step in and stop this leak.

FOREMAN: You compare this to a natural disaster. Early on, as I mentioned in my letters to the president, you know, a lot of people wanted to say this was like Katrina, which seemed to me to be a lot of hyperbole at the time, but as time goes on, that seems to be the genesis of this political pressure. People saying, you gave it a shot that way, BP can't solve it, now you must step in. What reason would there be for the White House not stepping in? GARNER: One could speculate that they don't want to have any political blood on their hands if it doesn't go well. But, you know, when you run for office, you take that responsibility to do the right thing regardless of the outcome.

FOREMAN: Does this give any -- if the White House were to step in, let's look at it from the other standpoint right now. If the White House were to step in and say, we're taking over this operation, legally, would that allow BP, then, to escape any of the penalty or payment for this? Or could the White House say, we are going to unleash the combined forces of the Coast Guard, the EPA, NASA and the U.S. military to solve this, and you guys are just getting the check at the end and you have to pay it?

GARNER: There's no reason, just like we saw on the news, the U.S. government took over AIG and then pursued them in a criminal matter that they decided not to prosecute. The U.S. government should take this over and tell BP up front, you're not only going to reimburse the American people for the cost of this, but you're going to reimburse everyone on the Gulf Coast.

FOREMAN: As you look at this issue, it sounds like you're leaning very strongly towards that being the proper course right now. Do you have any reason to believe that it would actually produce a result quicker than BP might produce a result?

GARNER: Right now we're on the precipice of the worst-case scenario. And we're on the precipice, you know, in the litigation so far, big BP, what I'll call big BP PLC has said, we're not subjecting ourselves to the jurisdiction of the U.S. courts.

So the worst-case scenario, the U.S. government, the greatest government of all time, doesn't step in, you could lose the marshes of Louisiana, you could lose all the seafood in the Gulf Coast, you could destroy parts of the Gulf coast, and BP later on say, hey, we never submitted to your jurisdiction, we're not paying it.

FOREMAN: All right. Well we sure appreciate you joining us with a little bit of advice. James Garner, he is an attorney who specializes in commercial litigation. He joins us from New Orleans by phone as we continue to look at this. You can check out my letters to the president online. You can see more details about how other people are responding to this as well.

In a moment, we'll have news from Houston, from the secretary of the interior, Ken Salazar and one of the chief officers of the Coast Guard in charge of all this. You can see them walking out right now. We'll see when they get to the podium and we'll take a listen to what they have to say about these efforts to stop this leak hopefully very soon.

(BEGIN COVERAGE)

KEN SALAZAR, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: Thank you all very much for coming this afternoon. Let me start out by saying this is the fourth time that I have been here in Houston at BP since this incident happened 33 days ago. I am angry and I am frustrated that BP has been unable to stop this well from leaking and to stop the pollution from spreading. We are 33 days into this effort and deadline after deadline has been missed.

Last time that I was here, BP made it clear that they were moving forward with a junk kill that was supposed to happen on Tuesday the 18th. Today that has not yet happened. So I have been here since 6:00 this morning, making sure that BP is doing everything that is human and technologically possible to take care of the BP spill that it has created in the Gulf of Mexico.

But as we move forward, I'm also making sure that we're following the president's directive. And that is that no effort will be spared in doing everything that can be done to kill this well and to stop the pollution from spreading in the Gulf Coast.

And to that end, the best scientists in the entire world have been brought here to Houston to focus on this problem and this morning I am joined by Marcia McNutt, the director of the United States Geological Survey, who has been helping lead a group of scientists from the Department of Energy as well as all the federal families along with Jack Bohman, who is the person who is the mission director chief engineer for NASA operations, who also has been part of the federal team at the president's direction, making sure that everything is being done to contain this unfolding problem.

The people who are joining the federal team include the personnel from three federal Department of Energy of laboratories, Sandia Laboratory, Livermore, and Los Alamos. This is a team of all-stars. This is a team of all-stars that are now leading an Apollo 13-type effort here in Houston.

If there is a way to kill this well, they will find it. If there is a way to stop this pollution from spreading, they will find it. They have pushed BP in every way that they can to kill the well and they have pushed BP in every way with that they can to stop the pollution.

This is an unprecedented and Herculean response that we see unfolding in the Gulf of Mexico today. As of today, there are over 1,000 vessels that have been deployed to fight the oil. There are 22,000 people who are actively engaged, including our best minds, as front line responders. There are 1.73 million feet of containment boom that have been deployed, 730,000 feet of (inaudible). There are over 10 million gallons of oily materials that have been collected, and at the request of the president, we have been all hands on deck.

Secretary of Energy Steven Chu has -- let me get a better. Secretary of the Interior, Steven Chu has delayed his trip to China in order to come here to BP headquarters as the efforts on the diagnostics and the ultimate decisions are made about how to move forward. And so he will be working with this stellar team of scientists he has assembled to make sure that this thing gets under control.

At the same time, federal scientists have been working to get an updated estimate of how much oil has actually been flowing and how fast it is spilling. The administration-wide response efforts have always been geared towards the possibility of a catastrophic event and our deployment of resources and our tactics have been based on such a worst-case scenario, not an inexact number.

The national commander has put together a team, which is developing the best scientific information so that we can provide the best estimates on the oil spill to the American people. That will be an estimate that is coming from the United States of America and not coming from BP itself.

But regardless of what the updated estimate will be, we have been and will continue to attack this spill as if it were a much larger spill than it has been estimated. We are sparing no resource.

Since the incident began, I promised that we would keep our boot on BP's neck and in the past few weeks, we have absolutely been doing that. We have demanded that BP not challenge the $75 million cap and BP has agreed to do that. We have demanded that BP increase transparency by posting live video on their Web site and they are doing that. We have requested further transparency from BP and will continue to demand further transparency from BP. We demanded that BP began using a less-toxic dispersant and we are currently in the 72- hour window we gave them in which to respond.

The National Institute of Environmental Health and Sciences is assuring that the development and deployment of workers on this massive deployment is, in fact, one that is done safely. EPA is continuing to monitor air and water quality and to assess a potential environmental impacts of all tactics being taken by BP.

I would, at this point, like to call on Dr. Marcia McNutt, who has been spending all of her time here at Houston, working with the scientific team to get control of this problem. Dr. McNutt? MARCIA MCNUTT, DIRETCOR, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY: Thank you. I'm the director of the U.S. Geological Survey and I have spent the better part of three weeks now here in Houston, leading the large contingent of the federal family that is here trying to reduce the risk of attempts to contain the flow and kill the well, trying to improve the diagnostics that will improve the chances of success, and trying to in every way improve the strategy for achieving this result.

And please, don't anyone in the press be confused about this. When it comes to containing this flow and killing this well, whether you are a member of BP or whether you are someone from industry or someone from the public, we are all united in wanting the same result. We want to stop polluting the ocean and we want to kill this well. We are all on the same page on that. Thank you.

JACK BOHMAN, NASA: Hi. Yes, I'm Jack Bohman from NASA. The agency has had extensive experience dealing with complex and difficult problems in remote locations and in hostile environments. I am here to ensure that any capability that NASA has, that that can be helpful in solving this problem is brought to bear.

SALAZAR: Thank you very much, Jack. And with that I'd be happy to take questions.

QUESTION: You folks have been here for three weeks or so and you say you're frustrated with the effort of BP, what do you think is -- what's taking so long? Why hasn't this -- what's your assessment of -- why it's actually not happened yet?

SALAZAR: The circumstances that they're dealing with are very difficult ones, but BP from beginning have given us schedules that they said that they could meet. They have not been met. We now have new schedules for what they expect to happen this week. We will be monitoring the work path with respect to those schedules and we want them to be met, because we have the same goal here, and that is to kill this well and if killing this well is not possible, then to stop the pollution from flowing into the ocean. And I'm going to have Dr. McNutt refer to your question as well, because she has been here on a day-to-day basis. Marcia?

MCNUTT: I think everyone has to understand that the kinds of operations they are doing in the deep sea have never been done before. And I think it is too bad that expectations were probably raised on schedules that probably were impossible to meet in terms of the kinds of construction that was required in the deep sea to effect these operations that involved mobilizing equipment, fabricating new devices that had never been deployed at these depths before.

This is truly, as the secretary has said, an Apollo 13-type effort. And it was truly a success-oriented schedule when it was first laid out, and one that was probably not feasible to meet from the onset. And as we get nearer to the date, I think it's getting more possible, but believe me, there are still possible complications between now and the middle of the week, when they hope to start pumping the dynamic kill. So don't think we're out of the woods yet.

SALAZAR: Other questions?

QUESTION: What about the dispersant, the dispute over dispersants? Is BP going to --

SALAZAR: There's an ongoing effort with the national commander on dispersants and with EPA, they're very involved in making sure that the program is effectuated in a way that best protects the environment. So I'm confident that that will happen with EPA's involvement and Admiral Allen's oversight of the whole effort.

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, is there a scenario where the U.S. government is going to take over this cleanup effort instead of leaving it to BP? When would the U.S. government take over?

SALAZAR: You know, BP is a party that is responsible. The United States has the responsibility for oversight. Right now, the program that we have with respect to stopping the well and the pollution that's emanating from the ocean floor involves a very significant oversight and involvement from the federal agencies, including the Department of Energy laboratories and Dr. McNutt.

That will continue through this week, as we move forward. With respect to the rest of the responses, including keeping the oil from coming near shore and onshore and dealing with those ecological values, BP, again, is the responsible party and is on the hook for doing everything that needs to happen. If we find that they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, we'll push them out of the way appropriately and we'll move forward to make sure that everything is being done to protect the people of the Gulf Coast, the ecological values of the Gulf Coast, and the values of the American people.

QUESTION: Do you trust BP? And do you believe they've lost any credibility?

SALAZAR: BP, from day one, frankly, has not fulfilled the mission that they were supposed to fulfill. This incident was not supposed to happen in the very first place. It was not supposed to happen because -- we let the helicopter fly overhead.

Their question, do I trust BP? The fact is, this incident was never supposed to happen in the first place, because there was a number of different fail-safe arrangements that were in place. The problem did occur because of a number of different failures that are still being investigated. It's theorized that it's bad cementing, bad casing, bad blowout preventers, bad lots of things that went wrong here.

Those are BP responsibilities along with the rest of its -- along with the rest of its contractors. We move forward to an incident that was never supposed to happen, and that is what's been going on now for 33 days. I have no question that BP is throwing everything at the problem to try to resolve it, because this is an existential crisis for one of the world's largest companies. So they are throwing everything that they can at the problem.

Do I have confidence that they know exactly what they're doing? No, not completely. And that is why we have the Department of Energy and its laboratories, Secretary Chu and Dr. Marcia McNutt, NASA, and a number of other agencies that are here providing input and providing oversight to make sure that this problem does not worsen and to make sure that ultimately this pollution is contained and controlled and that this well is killed.

QUESTION: One last question?

QUESTION: Has top kill been approved yet?

SALAZAR: Top kill is the option of choice right now. And the effort will be and the schedule is to try to get that done on with Wednesday. But there are a number of different issues that could arise, as diagnostics take place tomorrow, Monday, and on Tuesday. But that once that procedure is triggered, what you will see quickly is a set of decisions that lead down a number of different pathways.

If top kill succeeds, the deal is over and we just move forward into what is essentially what is then a program of dealing with the oil that has spilled and protecting the ecological resources of the Gulf. If top kill fails, it triggers in another set of plans that will be effectuating quickly and that is one of the things we have been in discussions about since very early this morning here in Houston. Yes?

QUESTION: We got a call today saying oil balls down on the Texas coast south of here. Have y'all heard anything about that, the Texas coast?

SALAZAR: I have not heard of those reports in Texas. There have been reports of tar balls in many different places in the Gulf Coast. Some of those have born to be not true. That is, if the tar balls were there, but upon examination, they were found to come from a source other than the deepwater horizon.

So with all things and this anecdote that you refer to here in Texas, there will be an analysis and it will be determined where the tar balls come from. You have to remember that the Gulf of Mexico has been a place where there have been significant oil and gas development now over the last 30 years and some of what we are seeing in terms of what people are reporting are consequences of the fact that there has been intense oil and gas development for that period of time here in the Gulf.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, guys.

SALAZAR: Thank you all very much.

(END OF COVERAGE)

FOREMAN: We've been listening to the secretary of the interior, Ken Salazar there, along with the representatives from NASA and from the U.S. Geological Survey. Secretary Salazar was a former farmer and environmental lawyer, so he knows a thing or two about these issues.

However, what he said, if you didn't hear all of it, will no doubt create more controversy as we come out in some ways. In one breath, he's talking about the federal government truly relying on BP and putting all of its resources in there to make sure that BP does the right thing. He said they vowed from the beginning that they would keep the boot on BP's neck and if BP doesn't do the job, he says, we will push them out of the way.

However, at the same time, he said from day one, BP has not fulfilled its mission. No doubt, all those words will be parsed over many times as people debate the degree to which the federal government or BP can or will stop this problem. We'll stay on it for the rest of the weekend. This is a fairly momentous weekend in this sequence of events since the oil spill because we're leading up to that big effort they mentioned, the top kill, which they're going to attempt on Tuesday.

All indications are that it's all ramping up towards that moment this weekend. It's really gaining a lot of political and pressure from the coast there, environmental and economic pressure. All leading up to Tuesday to see if this thing will work. And if it does not, you can bet that Mr. Salazar and the others will face a lot more very hard, hot questions.

We'll keep you apprised on all of that and more news coming up in just a moment. Stay with us here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOREMAN: A hearing set for June 2nd could determine the future of a legendary civil rights organization. This is very big news here in the South in particular. Two factions are fighting for control of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and it's become an increasingly ugly battle, including charges of financial mismanagement.

Last week, the leader of one of those factions padlocked the doors of SCLC headquarters in Atlanta. The leader of the other faction called that criminal and deplorable. The padlock came off the SCLC building on Wednesday, but the incident sent shock waves through the civil rights community. The SCLC used to be one of the nation's most influential civil rights movements, known far and wide, tracking its beginnings back to the Montgomery bus boycott in 1956.

Its founders were Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who also served as its first president. Dr. King's son, Dr. Martin Luther King III served as president until 2004. But since then, three more presidents have come and gone. Dr. King's daughter Bernice was named president last year but she's never taken office. This week, a columnist for the SCLC's hometown newspaper suggested the organization has no future.

Cynthia Tucker is that Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist for the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," a fine, fine newspaper. She's based in Washington. Cynthia, you wrote it's time to give the SCLC a decent burial. Why and what do you mean by that?

CYNTHIA TUCKER, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION: Well, Tom, the SCLC is a victim of its own success. You listed the very important civil rights protests that it was involved with, the march on Washington, the Selma march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge. So those accomplished what they set out to accomplish, the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. Much has changed in America since then, and the SCLC has never adjusted to change circumstances.

So I'm not saying it should be buried and forgotten about. What I'm saying is they should have a funeral that is like those home goings for people who have had long and successful lives. People should talk about the good memories and all it accomplished in its heyday and they be consign it to a museum.

FOREMAN: What about changing the mission? Couldn't they do something else to make themselves more relevant in this day and time, or do you think that's simply beyond the DNA of the current leadership?

TUCKER: I am certain it's beyond the DNA of the current leadership. You know, the NAACP has continued to make itself very relevant in the 21st century. It had a vaguely similar crisis in the 1990s when it was either going to adjust to change circumstances or die. The NAACP adjusted. The NAACP is now involved in causes like immigration reform. When he was still chairman of the board, Julian Bond endorsed gay rights and gay marriage. But the SCLC has not found a way to adjust to the civil rights causes of the 21st century.

Its leadership is a bunch of traditional-leaning ministers, largely Baptist ministers, who are stuck in the past. It was always a smaller organization than the NAACP anyway, and I just don't see that the SCLC has it in itself, in its leadership, to find a new mission.

FOREMAN: All right. Cynthia Tucker from the "Atlanta Journal- Constitution," you've laid the table for the rest of our conversation. Thanks for joining us.

Now we're going to turn to Charles Steele, a former national president of the SCLC between 2004 and 2008. How about it? When you look at the SCLC, you've heard what Cynthia Tucker had to say there. How do you respond?

CHARLES STEELE, FORMER SCLC PRESIDENT: First of all, she's a fine person and a great leader in her own rights, but we do disagree in terms of the fight that SCLC still needs to play a role within the future, not only in America, but throughout the world.

I was in Israel under my presidency of SCLC and I was there actually 4.5 years. And I was a vested interest. We were able to build a building, a brand-new building, institutionalizing SCLC, debt- free, $3.3 million. We were able to raise a lot of money. We're talking about $10 million.

FOREMAN: Let me interrupt you there. You said institutionally, to sort of codify this thing. But look, compare that to the work that you did back in Alabama, the local work around Tuscaloosa, things like that where you produced concrete results for people on the ground. It does seem as if the SCLC has lost its way on that. You don't hear about a lot of ambitious, successful programs with the SCLC brand on them.

STEELE: Tom, I appreciate you saying that in terms of the productivity of what we have done. The fact being, we are family and we love each other. We really love each other.

FOREMAN: It doesn't look like that right now.

STEELE: Well, all families are dysfunctional to some degree. As a matter of fact, 90 percent by some research. We are all dysfunctional.

FOREMAN: But can an organization with the pedigree of the SCLC afford to be dysfunctional now? Look at the problems being faced by minority communities in this country who look to an SCLC and say, lead us, instead, they see this carnival going on and people arguing.

STEELE: I agree with you, Tom, we can't afford it, but the fact being is we can resolve it. Conflict reconciliation, that's what we're known for. I was in Israel, my last trip to Israel, and I was talking to the cabinet members of the prime minister, Ariel Sharon. His chief of staff had a congressperson with me. Listen to this, Tom, had a congressperson with me and five other persons, and they looked at me and invited me to Israel, to Jerusalem, they said, Charles Steele, there never would be world peace without SCLC. Teach us. So what I'm saying is that. We have a setup in Israel. We also work with the Palestinians. We're bringing both sides together. Have been working on it for five years under my administration in SCLC and still doing it, Tom, but all I'm saying is we have to go back to the basis.

FOREMAN: We'll have to see if you get there. I appreciate your coming in. We needed a lot more time to discuss it. I appreciate you coming in here. Best of luck to your organization.

STEELE: Thank you so much. I would like to give compliments to Dr. Joseph Lowery who led us in a great way.

FOREMAN: He's been there for a very, very long time.

STEELE: And he was my leader and still my leader.

FOREMAN: All right, thank you so much, we appreciate it.

Who or what is to blame in that deadly plane crash in India? That's where we're turning our attention next. The questions are mounting as searchers comb through the wreckage there. They're finding some clues and a lot more questions. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FOREMAN: The cockpit voice recorder has been found from that terrible Air India crash. A little bit of good news amid all the bad, 158 people are dead. Only eight survived when that plane went down this weekend, skidding off a runway. A terrible, terrible crash. The search for the flight data recorder continues at this hour and Liz Neisloss has the latest from the scene where the victims are grieving and looking for so many answers.

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LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Mangalore's mortuary, they are bringing in coffins, weaving their way through the throngs. A steady stream of ambulances arrive to unload the dead. Family and friends of those who have died in the Air India crash come to identify bodies, but not all find answers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been searching for the bodies since yesterday morning and we are here today to search again and we could not locate our relatives' body and three of my little sisters are missing.

NEISLOSS: A call for immediate families to come forward and give blood. DNA samples will be taken to help identify those bodies charred beyond recognition.

PRABHAKHAR SHARMA, LOCAL GOVERNONMENT OFFICIAL: If they are not able to identify the bodies which are charred due to this tragedy, we are arranging for the taking of the samples of those bodies and getting it tested.

NEISLOSS: Thirteen-year-old Mohammad waits to give a DNA sample. His father, a worker in Dubai, was killed in the crash. This is the mathematics of tragedy, calculating bodies identified and removed and the numbers that still can't be claimed. Anxious relatives and curious onlookers crowd to see the bodies of a mother and daughter brought to the morgue. From here, some family and friends move on to funerals. All feel the anguish of this enormous loss, all still wondering why this terrible tragedy happened. Liz Neisloss, CNN, Mangalore, India.

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FOREMAN: In a moment, we'll bring it all back home. The Native American community here in the United States is taking the recession head on. The question is, can they succeed where others have failed? You might be surprised at the answer. We'll look at their timely lessons for building up America when we come back.

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FOREMAN: The latest numbers from the Bureau of Labor show it is worse in the West when you're talking about unemployment, pushing almost 11 percent. However, as part of our "Building Up America" series, I traveled to New Mexico, where one Native American community is taking the recession head on and winning.

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FOREMAN (voice-over): The year's first harvest of alfalfa is being cut in the northwest corner of New Mexico. And Tsosie Lewis is pleased because for him each harvest brings what he believes his community needs most.

(on camera): You have just always believed that if you don't deliver quality, you don't have anything?

TSOSIE LEWIS, CEO, NAVAJO AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS INDUSTRY: That is correct, quality, quality, quality.

FOREMAN: That's what you believe in?

LEWIS: That's what I believe in. Everything we do has to be quality.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Out in this arid and beautiful landscape, Lewis is CEO of the Navajo Agricultural Products Industry or NAPI. He and his team have led a ten-year campaign to raise the quality and success of Navajo Pride products, annually producing more than $30 million worth of potatoes, corn, wheat, beans and even cattle.

LEWIS: You need to have diversity in your operation. You just can't raise crops and that's all you can do.

FOREMAN: The NAPI team is a model of efficiency. Rigorous on- site soil and water testing protect quality and productivity. A computerized command center handles irrigation needs around the clock.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just make sure the farmers are getting their water. FOREMAN: Managers of each crop must turn at least 15 percent profits, the money going back into the farm or other tribal programs. And it all works.

NAPI employs 1,200 full and part-time workers each year and has not had a single layoff in this recession. They run an aggressive training program for young Navajos and they have earned the highest honor, the respect of their own community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm proud of being a Navajo, proud of who we are, proud of this farm, how far it came, you know.

FOREMAN (on camera): Do you like working here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do. I plan on retiring here.

FOREMAN: Just how big is this operation? Well, look at it this way. All of the land that you can see, 30 miles east to west, 20 miles north to south is all part of this farm.

But, for Tsosie Lewis, it is even bigger. As a young man, outsiders told him his tribe could never succeed at a business like this.

LEWIS: Well, I stand here today with 99.9 percent Navajos operating their own farm. That is success to me. That's always been my dream and will be my dream for the rest of my life.

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FOREMAN: Good folks out there, building up their part of America.

The beer's cold, the snacks are ready. "Lost" fans are gearing up to say good-bye to their favorite show. Stay with us.

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FOREMAN: So will tonight's "Lost" finale answer all of its fans' questions? Our Kareen Wynter talks to the viewers and some of the stars too.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should take your friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are very close to the end, Hugo.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Indeed, we are. After six seasons, audiences will finally see the last of "Lost."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guys, where are we?

WYNTER: Fans are still waiting for answers to questions like that from the very beginning "Lost" teased and tormented its viewers with mystery after mystery. Now, it's biggest one will be answered. How does it all end? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then, I'm tell you everything you need to know about protecting this island.

WYNTER: For six years, fans have debated, argued and wondered what it all meant, online, at conventions and viewing parties.

Now, at the end, it is beginning to sink in. There is no way the finale can resolve everything.

PETER SCALES, "LOST" FAN: I have no idea what's going to happen at the end of show and I love that.

LISETTE LAMBERT LOPEZ, "LOST" FAN: You feel like they are not going to answer all the questions and I think that's OK because -- I mean, it's part of the show, you know, to be lost.

OMAR ZIE, "LOST" FAN: "Lost," it was good. I was tricked. We all were. I mean, "Lost," come on -- they tricked us. Just entertain me. This one, my expectations, we're going to keep it minimal.

WYNTER: The need to satisfy all those expectations wasn't lost on the cast.

JOSH HOLLOWAY, "SAWYER": I was worried for them, myself. I didn't want anyone to, you know, be attacked by a lynch mob.

SONYA WALGER, "PENNY": You need to come at it with like an open heart, rather than with a curious mind. If you're looking for specifics, then you might be left feeling wanting. If you are looking for an emotional resolution, I think you'll be really happy with what you get.

WYNTER: So, will the finale ambiguous like "The Sopranos"? Disappointing like "Seinfeld"? Maybe a "MASH"-style tearjerker?

Like the characters on their favorite show, "Lost" fans have faith they will finally find what they're looking for. One thing is for sure, Tuesdays will never be the same.

YASAMIN SUBAT, LOST FAN: We don't know what we're going to do. We have no idea. We've got to pick another show, but I don't think there's another show that can quite capture this.

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: We're not going to get all the answers. But thank you, "Lost," for having us.

WYNTER: Kareen Wynter, CNN, Hollywood.

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FOREMAN: Well, thank all for joining us. I'm Tom Foreman sitting in for Fredricka Whitfield. Some say the creation of life is God's work, but for the first time, scientists have produced a cell that can reproduce on its own. We'll talk about that in the 4:00 p.m. hour of the NEWSROOM. Right now, it's "Your $$$."