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BP Prepares to Try Another Technique to Stop Leak; How Much will Oil Leak Cleanup Cost; Jamaican Police Search for Alleged Kingpin; Policing Mexican Border; Tylenol Recall

Aired May 26, 2010 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take it to the next level. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ali Velshi.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Tony Harris, excellent vest you have on. And by the way, I've learned a lot about oil and how we plug those holes from you today. We're going to take it to the next level on that.

I'm Ali Velshi, as Tony said. I'm going to be with you for the next two hours today and every weekday, taking every important topic that we cover a step further. Try to give you a level of detail, even more than Tony gave you if that's possible, that will help you put your world into context. And I hope you come away with something that you didn't have before.

Let's get started. It's the big story we've all been following. This could prove to be a pivotal day, even a pivotal hour in the agonizingly slow effort to plug that massive oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We've got our team live right there.

Plus, you'll never look at mud the same way again after Bill Nye, the Science Guy, goes through it with you.

And we're not just dependent on oil; we're desperate for it. So how do we ease our desperation? I'm going to ask an expert.

Also, hundreds of complaints about some of the most popular over- the-counter medicines. We're going to tell you what you need to know before you feel that cold.

Let's go to oil right. I want to tell you what's going on at the moment. First of all, it is day 37 of that oil spill, starting with the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon, deep oil drilling ship in the Gulf of Mexico.

We have eight live cameras on the scene right now. These are live cameras underwater. BP's cameras are bringing us a picture of -- of everything that's going on. You see them here behind you. Some of them are dark. They'll come back up again, but we have eight cameras that are showing us what's going on underwater.

Now listen, this is the new news that we have. The Coast Guard has given approval to BP to begin its top kill assault. This is its best chance yet to kill this -- this well. They've been preparing for it. The Coast Guard has given them the go-ahead to do it. We will keep on top of this and find out when they actually begin this process.

Let me show you a little bit about this top kill. And basically, it's the idea that they shoot 50,000 pounds of something called mud in the industry. It's not actually mud. We will tell you exactly what it is. They shoot 50,000 pounds of mud to block up the blowout preventer, which is the thing. That's what you're looking at there. The blowout preventer is what's on top of the well head. And by the way, it's about five stories high. And then they try and put cement into it to stop the actual leak.

Also, President Obama is coming up with new oil-drilling regulations on Thursday. That's tomorrow. On Friday he's going back to the Gulf Coast. He was last there on May 2. He's going back tomorrow, on Friday and some would hope it will all be done by then.

Let me tell you, just again, this is the -- this is the blowout preventer. You're going to be hearing a lot about what over the course of the next day. This is the thing that sits on top of the well head. The well head is where the well meets the floor of the ocean. That's what they have to try and seal up.

I want to go right now live to the Gulf Coast, to Grand Isle, Louisiana, a small island off the coast of Louisiana. Kiran Chetry from "AMERICAN MORNING" is there. Ed Lavandera is there. They've been talking to people. Grand Isle very close to Port Fourchon, where the oil comes in from offshore. So it's a big center for oil. It's also a big center for fishing, for shrimping. They're there. And the weather is starting to turn on them right now.

Kiran, what have you seen while you're there?

KIRAN CHETRY, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Well, the interesting thing, and you talked about just what Grand Isle is. And it's supposed to be packed right now with about 10,000 tourists ahead of Memorial Day weekend. It's a huge recreational fishing area, as well. And except for members of the media and some of the people from the clean-up crew, this place is a ghost town. And it has the locals very upset.

Ed has been working all morning to find out a little bit more. I mean, we were out here at 6 a.m. and we thought the top kill situation would have started. And there's been delays. What's going on with that?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we knew that they were behind the scenes kind of going through those final testing. The pressure tests on the blowout preventer and the analysis. It's a very complex deal. We have, obviously, Secretary Chu, the energy secretary, in Houston, a huge team of people kind of from the federal government overseeing what BP is doing. They've been going through those meetings. We heard from Tony Hayward this morning. We expect to hear from them.

They've gotten the green light from the admiral, Mary Landry (ph), who is the Coast Guard admiral, rear admiral in charge of the response here. So now it's just a matter of hearing from BP as to whether or not they're going to proceed. You know, the weather is just downright nasty here today. I don't know how bad it is as you go offshore. Perhaps that has something to do with it. But you know, obviously, you've seen up and down the coast here, people desperately want to hear how this is going to...

VELSHI: Hey, Ed and Kiran...

CHETRY: Ali, it's interesting.

VELSHI: Here's something. I don't know if your photographer can see it. But over your left shoulder, Kiran, our right of the screen, just out of the screen, you can see a rig right there. I mean, just to give you the relationship of how much -- how close people who live in parts of Louisiana and Alabama are to this industry. They fish. It's the biggest seafood-generating state in the nation. But it's also dependent on oil. And this is where these two have come together.

You both talked to a lot of these fishermen, a lot of these people who make their living off of the sea. And they're being devastated right now.

CHETRY: Yes, absolutely. Ali, we just got back, actually, in the water and Ed was referring to the weather situation. We were out there on a boat, lightning, thunder. And I don't know if that is holding up again, whether or not they're going to be able to go forward with their top kill operations.

But I was out on the boat with your buddy that you spent some time with during Gustav. He's one of the largest shrimp distributors, Dean Blancher (ph).

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: He's simply is disgusted, and a lot of other local businessmen, especially those who make their living on the water, are, as well.

He showed me boats that were supposed to be laying boom that don't even have equipment. I mean, we witnessed it with our own eyes. They're just out there without equipment.

He was showing me areas including a bayou rig out, which is a place where a lot of the brown pelicans nest, and they were attempting to put boom around it. And in some cases the boom had actually washed onto shore, as we know happens in bad weather. And he was disgusted that it hadn't been replaced yet. And he said, "What are these people doing? They know the locals understand these waters best."

And what -- what he feels is happening is that contractors are maybe perhaps not necessarily knowing as best as the locals know how to make this happen. And he feels that this area is decimated.

LAVANDERA: Kiran, that's a complaint that's existed since early on. The week after we were here, a week after this was going on, over south -- southwest of -- southeast of New Orleans. And that's exactly what the boat -- the shrimpers there, they had just been told that they couldn't shrimp anymore. And so they signed up to do this. And they were laying boom faster than they could get the boom out to them. So they know these waters. I can see that point. They know that they're doing out there.

VELSHI: What's this...

CHETRY: You know, Ali, one other thing.

VELSHI: Go ahead.

CHETRY: One other interesting thing that Dean said, as you know we've been using this number, this 20 percent of the area is off limits to fishing and shrimping.

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: And a lot of the locals, including Dean and Myron Fisher (ph) from the Wildlife and Fisheries say that's the 20 percent that yields the most shrimp. This is the area where, of course, they get the -- the nation gets 40 percent of the shrimp supply.

And so they were really putting on the pressure. They want to be able to, in waters where they say there has not been any oil yet...

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: ... to get what they can and salvage what they can of the shrimp harvest. And that's something that apparently the mayor and other locals here are still trying to fight for. They said they would never take the risk and put oiled shrimp on the market. It would be suicide, is what Dean called it. And he said they have to let the local -- the locals who know these waters best do their job before it's too late.

VELSHI: All right. We'll check in with both of you. Thanks so much.

And one of the things that's important about you being there is that you're talking to all these people. We -- you know, we talk about the seafood industry, the fishing industry. These aren't industries. These are regular people who come together and they sell what they -- what they catch to slightly larger businesses who sell it to larger businesses. So these are real people getting affected by this.

Kiran and Ed, we will check in with you through the course of the afternoon. And we'll let you -- you'll let us know if that top kill process has actually started.

We want to talk about this top kill a little more. Some of you may think you know everything there is to know about top kill, but this is the last best chance, we've been told, to get this done. So I want to bring in Steve Wereley. He is an associate professor of mechanical engineering joining me from Lafayette, Indiana. He's helped us out in the past on this.

Steve, I don't know if you can see those eight cameras. We're going to put them up, the eight shots we've got. Few of them are live. But let's take a look at that. And tell me, first of all, these images that we've been seeing from BP's cameras under the ocean, what generally are we looking at here? We're seeing what appears to be oil flowing into the water, but give me some sense of perspective?

STEVE WERELEY, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF MECHANICAL ENGINEERING: Sure. And I think perspective is a very important thing here. Because when you look at these cameras there really isn't a sense of scale. I mean, it's completely outside the range what normal people have, what people usually deal with in their daily lives.

And so the one that's been seen, been shown most prominently is the one that shows the flow out of what's called the riser pipe. And so if feel had been tuning in to that camera from time to time, what they'll see is -- is black clouds coming out of the end of the riser pipe, alternating with -- with white clouds. And the black clouds are liquid oil. And they have some dissolved gas in them, as the monitor is showing. And the white clouds are strictly gas, methane gas.

VELSHI: All right. Sorry.

WERELEY: Now, what I wanted to bring out about this -- about the shot that you see here is the scale of things. So you look at the pipe out of which the cloud of oil is coming. That's an almost two- foot-diameter pipe. That's like a sewer pipe. So you know, you have to have an idea of the sense of scale to understand how much oil is coming out of it.

VELSHI: Steve, I'm going to ask -- I'm going to ask our control room to go back to that shot so you can describe that pipe again. I'm going to ask them to put that back on screen. You're saying that pipe that we're seeing is two feet in diameter?

WERELEY: That's correct. Yes. So when you -- it's laying on the bottom of the shot. And you see -- you see a yellowish thing that's sort of covered with a little bit of gray. And that's what's called the riser pipe. That's the main pipe that takes the oil from the blowout preventer, up to the oil rig, in ideal circumstances.

VELSHI: Now, let's talk about the blowout preventer, because we seem to be concentrating a lot on this. There's a big hole into the ground, from the sea bed into the ground underneath where all of that oil lies. Where the ocean floor, the blowout preventer is the thing that we see right above the ocean floor. Is that correct?

WERELEY: That's correct. It's a very complicated, very large structure on the ocean floor.

VELSHI: And what does it do? What's it prevent -- what blowout is it preventing?

WERELEY: Well, so should the drills strike an area that has considerably higher pressure than the area that they had previously been drilling in as they punched down into this reservoir, what will happen is a flow will come shooting back up the -- up the well, up the pipe toward the surface.

And so the idea of the blowout preventer is to sense when that's happening and to shut it down. It has big pinchers. I don't know if your graphic is going to show these big pinchers, these big crimpers, they call them. And what they do is -- what they're supposed to do is to pinch off that -- that main pipe through the blowout preventer and prevent the blowout.

VELSHI: All right. Steve, you'll stay with us to help us understand exactly how this is working a little further. That's as far as we've gotten with this. We're going to talk about exactly what this top kill effort is. Steve Wereley is the associate professor of mechanical engineering, joining us from West Lafayette, Indiana.

Stay with us. We're going to continue all of this, this focus on top kill. One of the things we've been talking about is mud. And I keep telling you that it's not the kind of mud you get in your backyard. Bill Nye, the Science Guy, gets a bit dirty about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: On one said we've side we've got this effort to stop this -- this well from gushing oil into the ocean. On the other side we've got some developments in Washington and -- and expected announcement by President Obama tomorrow, tightening regulations on offshore oil drilling.

Jim Acosta is following that for us from Washington. He joins us now.

Jim, what have we got?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ali, we have a gusher of politics in Washington right now over this disaster. And there's a hearing going on at the House Natural Services Committee over a very damning report that came out from the inspector general's office inside the Interior Department that found, during the Bush administration, there were big-time problems at the Minerals Management Service. That's the federal agency that oversees offshore oil rigs.

And what this inspector general's report found was that several federal regulators were accepting gifts and other things from the industry during this period -- during the Bush administration. And so that's the focus of that hearing.

Meanwhile, there are some Democrats up on the Hill who are starting to become frustrated with the response from the Obama administration. Most especially Florida Senator Bill Nelson, who said if this top kill procedure that's going on today does not work, it's time for the president to get involved, take control and perhaps send in the military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: It's now time for the president to put the military in charge. Why the military? Somebody that has a command structure that can coordinate things among many different agencies.

Or if he decided to go with a civilian, somebody like General Colin Powell.

The perception is that we're fumbling around. I am sure that BP wants to get this plugged as much as anybody, but it hasn't worked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Bill Nelson saying all that to me yesterday up on the Hill.

The White House has responded to some of this. My colleague Dan Lothian at the White House says that the White House is saying, essentially, "Well, if we brought in the military, what would we do?"

Meantime, the chairman of that committee that's holding the hearings today, Ali, Nick Rahall of West Virginia, a Democrat, he says that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that up on Capitol Hill there is growing frustration with the administration's handling of this spill.

VELSHI: All right. We're expecting those -- an announcement tomorrow from the president about what these new regulations are going to be. We'll check in with you about that. Jim, thanks very much.

Jim Acosta in Washington, D.C.

Let's get back to this top kill, the thing we're waiting to hear that BP is starting in order to try and -- and kill this well.

We're talking about mud. You've heard this reference. We're going to put 50,000 pounds of mud down into this well to try and stop the oil from gushing out and then follow that with some cement.

Now the reality is this isn't mud at all. It's -- it's sort of a chemical lubricant that's used in the industry. It's used very, very commonly in wells, both on land and offshore. It's just never been used at this depth.

Keep in mind that we are talking about a hole in the sea floor that is a mile under water. So that -- what you're looking at is a drilling rig that is on the surface of the sea.

Now, you go all of the way down. This is a mile down. You've got that blowout preventer which we're talking about. That's that big structure. That's the size of a five-story building. And they are going to shoot mud down this thing, down that hole. You'll see it in a second. That's the oil, right?

So we're going to try and push that oil up, pump it out, and then through another line, pump in this mud and then pump in cement, solidifying it. That's the cement. That will block the hole. And then you've got the end to this thing.

But what is this mud we keep talking about that's going to push this oil out? Bill Nye, the Science Guy, was talking about the consistency of the mud and the force that it takes to push that mud into the blowout preventer. Hear it in his words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: If you've ever played with cornstarch, cornstarch is what we call a dilatant material. This is cornstarch and water. It's goopy. It drips. But if I hit it real hard, it doesn't splash. It's counterintuitive.

And the reason it doesn't, this material, this property we called dilatancy, where the molecules stack up, like my old boss used to call it, a stack of nickels. You can break it going sideways. But if you push on a stack of nickels, it doesn't move.

And so it is with drilling mud. So the idea is to get in there, pump in drilling mud. The action of the flow will make it lock. And then while it's leaking very, very slowly, you've slowed it way down, then you just pour cement on top.

Now, when this thing is 21 inches in diameter, you're going to need at least 400 tons of pressure -- or rather, of force, 400 tons of weight on top of this pipe to hold it.

And 400 tons sounds like a lot to you and me. If you had 400 tons of something in your kitchen you would notice it. But 400 tons in terms of cement is not that big. This is a doable job.

And as I believe the head of BP said earlier today or late last night, if this were on the surface, if this were a surface oil well, this would be a very reasonable chance of success, 95, 99 percent chance of success. But on the bottom of the ocean with all this crazy methane ice forming, these calathrates, and the flow of current, and the brittle materials, and hot oil, it's not so clear that it will be easy. But it sure should work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELSHI: All right. We'll continue to bring you up to speed with exactly what is happening in this -- in the effort to kill this well.

There's also the other component of this, and that is everything that has been done on land and to the fisheries, and to the water, and to recreation, and tourism. We're going to discuss the cost of cleaning it all up, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Tracking the oil spill, the clean-up, the effort to kill that well from all sides. Moments ago President Obama in Fremont, California, speaking at the Solyndra manufacturing plant, said this about the oil spill. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Discussed today's attempt to stop the leak through what's known as the top kill, plugging the well with densely packed mud to prevent any more oil from escaping.

If it's successful, and there's no guarantees, it should greatly reduce or eliminate the flow of oil now streaming into the gulf from the seafloor. And if it's not, there are other approaches that may be viable.

And as work continues in the next couple of months to complete relief wells, my administration is intensely engaged with scientists and engineers to explore all alternative options, and we're going to bring every resource necessary to put a stop to this thing.

But a lot of damage has been done already: livelihoods destroyed, landscapes scarred, wildlife affected. Lives have been lost. Our thoughts and prayers are very much with the people along the Gulf Coast.

And then let me reiterate, we will not rest until this well is shut, the environment is repaired, and the clean-up is complete. And I look forward to returning there on Friday to review the efforts currently under way and lend my support to the region.

But even as we are dealing with this immediate crisis, we've got to remember that the risks are current dependence on oil holds for our environment and our coastal communities is not the only cost involved in our dependence on these fossil fuels.

Around the world, from China to Germany, our competitors are waging a historic effort to lead in developing new energy technologies. There are factories like this being built in China, factories like this being built in Germany. Nobody is playing for second place. These countries...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: All right. That's the president talking about the risks of doing business this way, the risks of having our dependence on fossil fuels, and the kinds of things that can happen because we are so dependent on fossil fuels.

That sort of takes us to a discussion about how much this is going to cost to clean up. That's hard to know, because we don't actually know how much damage is done. But Christine Romans, my colleague, has been following this very, very closely. She can tell us a bit about -- about what some of these risks are -- Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, this oil spill's devastating in so many ways, but it's not devastating so far for BP's bottom line. When you look at how much this spill is costing the oil giant, according to the company up until May 10, the cost per day of everything it's doing in the Gulf, the technology, engineering and payouts to people who have lost wages, has been about $16 million per day.

For comparison, BP's profits in the first quarter of this year amounted to $66 million a day. The company's profits alone can mop up the excess of the oil spill cost.

And how much money does BP have in the bank? In the first quarter of this year, the company had $7 billion of cash and cash equivalence in the bank and billions more of money in investments and debt in other -- other instruments at its disposal.

This is a company with a very deep pocket. The cash that this company has coming in and out is huge, which just underscores the addiction to oil in this country. And it just shows how important this industry is for the economy.

One analyst I heard said this is a devastating situation for the Gulf, but BP will be able to absorb all of the costs of the clean-up in its balance sheet. BP made $14 billion in profit last year. If it ultimately costs the company $14 billion for the entire cleanup effort in the Gulf, all that would means is it didn't make a profit for just one year.

Still, BP's investors have been spooked by the blow to the company's reputation and the uncertainty about just when they will get this spill resolved. The stock price has gone down more than 25 percent since April 20.

Many analysts say no matter how devastating for the company this may be, BP makes so much money, pumping oil out of the ground and delivering it to a world that is still oil-dependent that its financial health can withstand all this -- Ali.

VELSHI: Continue to cover this. You can watch Christine and me both on "YOUR $$$$$" Saturdays at 1 p.m. Eastern, Sundays at 3 p.m. Eastern.

OK, next, how weather could have a big impact on the oil spill. We'll have the latest from Chad after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(1330 & 40 CAPS BELOW)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Hey, Chad is following the weather for us. We were just talking to Kiran Chetry and Ed Lavandera there in Grand Isle. Rain around them. We have no idea, because we don't really know the technicalities because we don't know what's going on with the top kill to know whether this adverse weather is going to affect this effort to kill this -- kill swell.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: These are very large vessels. I mean, we're not talking about a 20-feet sport fish out there with a bimini top trying to suck the oil or put the -

VELSHI: Right.

MYERS: There are tons and tons of -- just the top kill fluid, the mud all by itself. Yes, but you don't want these boats rocking in big thunderstorms, you know? And you don't want lightning hitting all around these ships while they're out there, OK?

Now, the weather was worse earlier when that line came off the coast here. Back in St. Bernard Parish (INAUDIBLE) And didn't you spend a hurricane in Grand Isle?

VELSHI: I did.

MYERS: I thought so. Well, that weather has also now charged off to the south. Really, these vessels are here. So, the weather is getting better. At some point earlier, I would say an hour ago, I would think -- I thought that this could really affect whether they could do it or not. Now it looks like it's getting better enough that weather should not affect it. Not like this!

VELSHI: Wow.

MYERS: Here's Mexico. This is the Pacific Ocean. That could be something we talk next hour.

VELSHI: All right. Very good. Chad will stay with us through the whole thing.

In a moment, we're going to take a look at what's going on in Italy. Why do you care about Italy? Because you're worried Italy will be the next Greece. We're going to "Globe Trek" around the globe over to Rome right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Time to "Globe Trek." I want to take you around to Italy. Why is Italy important right now? Because Italy is taking steps to avoid becoming the next Greece. What does that mean? European nations, a few of them, Portugal, Italy, Ireland -- Portugal, Italy, Ireland Greece and Spain are all countries where they're spending is a little bit higher than it should be. Their debt is higher than it should be. So, it is taking steps to try and bring its debt down, bring its deficit down, trying to convince investors that it can handle its heavy debt load.

That involves cutting public spending, including on highly-paid politicians and a very bloated public administration. They're also targeting tax evasion, which is a major drain on revenue, as it is in Greece. There are reactions as we saw in Greece. though, in Italy, to -- by labor leaders. They say these cuts are penalizing workers and of course they may call strikes. So, that's "Globe Trekking" in Italy.

Let's take this -- a little detour here. There's Italy. Here is South Africa. South Africa is interesting because that's where the World Cup will begin on June 11. That's why I bring you back to Washington, where the U.S. World Cup Team is being named this very hour. The team that is going to be playing in South Africa.

They're going to be visiting, by the way -- they'll be visiting President Obama at the White House tomorrow. The team will be 23 players. Coach Bob Bradley has cut seven players from the team that's going to compete in this year's World Cup. The U.S. team is in Group C, which means it plays against -- in Group C with England, Slovenia and Algeria. The first game that involves the United States is the day after the World Cup gets underway. June 12th is the first game for the United States.

All right. One of the of stories we've been following in the past couple of days is the fight in Jamaica. We're going to take you there live to give you an update of what's going on when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: Checking our top stories now.

The Coast Guard has given final authorization for the next step in stopping the Gulf coast oil spill. Now it is up to BP. The oil company says it will make a decision on top kill within a few hours. The tactic is plugging thick fluid into the leak to plug the flow.

The Atlantis space shuttle completed what is scheduled to be its final mission this morning. It landed at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida after a visit to the international space station. Only two more missions are schedule before the shuttle program ends. Those missions will be flown by space shuttles Endeavour and discovery.

And new home sales soared 14.8 percent in April, the second straight month of increases. Many home buyers were looking to close deals before tax credits expired at the end of April.

Time now for "Crime and Consequence." An accused drug kingpin in Jamaica is so powerful that police efforts to capture him have turned into something close to a war. At least 44 people are dead so far.

Rafael Romo live for us in Jamaica following this story. Yesterday was a big day there, Rafael. What's going on today?

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, Ali, we just had a chance to go to some of the areas, the scene of the most violent acts in the last few days here in Kingston. And I can tell you the state of emergency remains in effect. The streets are empty.

Let me show you some of the images that we shot just a few moments ago here in downtown Kingston. They are of an area where it is normally a shopping district, but it's desolate at this point, empty. People just too afraid to go there because they're afraid that shooting may erupt at any point.

But what I can tell you is that police and security forces seem to be gaining ground, seem to be taking control of the situation. However, overnight we still had some firefights, some shootouts here in the capital. And another thing that has been noted is that police stations are being shot at by heavily armed drug gangs who have been attacking police forces for the last few days.

So, in spite of the advance that police forces have made, still very much a very volatile situation here in Kingston, Ali.

VELSHI: This guy, Christopher "Dudus" Coke, this is the alleged kingpin, the alleged warlord.

Do we know where he is? And what happens to him if they catch him?

ROMO: Originally he was thought to be in an area here in Kingston, known as Tivoli Gardens. That's where he lives. That's where he has his businesses. And police launched an operation, a massive operation against him there.

But apparently he alluded police and at this point he's still at large. They don't know where he is, whether he's still here in Jamaica, or has fled the island. If he is captured he faces extradition to the United States to answer for charges related to drugs and weapons trafficking. And he faces a possible life sentence if he is convicted in the United States -- Ali.

VELSHI: All right. We'll stay on top of it with you. Rafael Romo live in Kingston, Jamaica.

Thanks, Rafael.

The Gulf Coast oil spill has a lot of people thinking about alternative energy. Our dependence on oil is so heavy that these things are bound to happen. I'm going to talk to a man who says first we've got to stop being so desperate for oil.

When we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: All right. The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels of oil a day. That is a lot more than anyone else. Almost a quarter of the world's output per day, even though the U.S. is less than five percent of the world's population. That perhaps is why we're in such a pickle.

Our dependence on oil, you heard President Obama talking about it a few moments ago. Now I want to talk to Stephen Leeb about it. He's the author of a book called, "Game Over: How You Can Prosper in a Shattered Economy." But he's also written all sorts of books about alternative energy. He has been singing this tune for a long time. Stephen, that things like this are bound to happen because we are so dependent on fossil fuels, including oil.

STEPHEN LEEB, AUTHOR, "GAME OVER": Right, Ali. We're desperate for oil. Just the fact that we're drilling many, many miles below the ocean floor is a sign that we're desperate.

I mean, we don't know what the geophysics looks like down there. I mean, I've heard it said, and I'm not a geophysicist, I can't verify it. But I've heard it said that we more about the geophysics of the moon than we do about the ocean. The fact that we're willing to take these kinds of chances so close to such a valuable ecosystem as exists, you know, off the coast of Louisiana, is just a sign, in my opinion, of utter desperation.

And we're not even talking about Brazil and Petrobras. They plan to go five miles under the floor of the ocean --

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: OK. So let's talk about this for a second.

LEEB: Yes.

VELSHI: Let's just remind our viewers. About one-third of the oil that we consume in the United States is actually produced here in the United States. In other words, the rest of it is imported. And about a quarter of that comes from the Gulf of Mexico. So we're nowhere near in the United States, meeting our energy needs when it comes to oil. We are always going to be dependent on other countries.

LEEB: Right. I mean, you know, it's a far-fetched dream to think that, you know, somehow we're going to be able to produce enough energy in this country to stand independently. Yes. I mean, we're nowhere near. Your words are exactly right, Ali.

VELSHI: So let's discuss this for a moment.

Right now our own polling indicates people are very angry with BP's handling of this situation. A smaller number are angry with the administration's handling of the situation.

But there might be a bit of a disconnect and I'm always worried about saying this because people take it the wrong way. But there might be some sort of a disconnect where no one ever points fingers at ourselves for the dependence that we have on oil. There's one way to change this and that is to change our habits.

LEEB: Right. I mean, that's absolutely true. And you know, our habits are going to be changed. I mean, one statistic that I, you know, I think -- best back of the envelope calculation is increased energy prices cost is typical, the median American household an additional $2,000 to $3,000 in the 2,000s. That's an enormous amount of money. Much more than you can ever imagine taxes costing us.

We're already paying an extraordinary price for these very, very high oil prices. And I'm not even talking about high copper, high other natural resource prices. We really, you know, have got to get on our horse, have to make it a war like effort to confront, you know, what is becoming a situation which is really just draining our lifestyle right out from under us.

VELSHI: What is the best bet? The President was at a solar factory in Freemont, California, moments ago talking about this. But, what is this? Is it solar, is it wind, is it hydroelectricity, is it nuclear?

What's our best bet to reduce our dependence on oil?

LEEB: OK. I think that, you know, where I would start very, very simply because it was a very well written article. I think a little disingenuous, a little Pollyannaish, but nevertheless cover story of the November 2009 issue of "Scientific American."

The first author on the story was a guy named Mark Jacobsen, he's a wonderful researcher, has a chaired position at Stanford. He's the real deal. He argues that we could go from nonrenewable fuels to renewable fuels in 20 years with a combination of wind -- that's the major one, that would be about 51 percent -- with solar and hydro playing the remaining role. So he thinks it's possible.

I think that we have a lot of work to do and I think he leaves out some things. But at least there are outlines out there. And we should be looking obviously at wind first. And we should be looking at solar, I think, second. And maybe nuclear. He left off nuclear. But there are alternatives out there. But they're not for free. I mean, everything we build in this world, whether it be a windmill, or whether it be a table, requires other resources. And that's going to be a major problem.

VELSHI: Well, we've been having this conversation for years. We'll continue to. I'm going to actually start because I'm going to find that article, post it on my Facebook page so people can get right in and then you and I will continue this conversation about how to start to achieve changes and some of the other areas that aren't in the article that we should talk about.

Stephen, good to see you, as always. Thank you.

LEEB: Thank you very much, Ali.

VELSHI: All right. Exactly where is that fence that the U.S. is building along the Mexican border? And why are there so many gaps in it? We're going to head south to find out exactly where the gaps in that border are.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: New poll by CNN Opinion Research Corporation shows growing support for increased border security along the border with Mexico. President Obama announced yesterday he's sending 1,200 troops to the border. So we wanted to take a look at what the issue is, particularly with what's on the border. Where is the fence on the border? Where is there nothing there? So we wanted to take a good hard look at that.

First of all, let me tell you about the CNN Opinion Research Poll. It says nine in ten Americans want to beef up U.S. law enforcement along the Mexican border, number one. Number two, it says 88 percent of respondents say they want more federal law enforcement officers at the border. That's up 15 points from when we polled and asked the same question two years ago, in 2008. Now, this does come after President Obama has asked for $500 million for border enforcement.

Let me just show you, 54 percent of those polled favor a fence along the border. You'll recall, under the Bush administration, money was provided for a fence, 700 miles of fencing along a 2,000-mile border. So take a look at that. That's the 2,000-mile border from the gulf coast of Texas all the way to the Pacific Coast of California. The call was for 700 miles of fencing, most of that's actually been done. It was supposed to be a double fence, but some of the funding for that was canceled, so it was a single fence.

The fence is the part in red, OK? You can see that there are red parts along the map and then there are open parts. The open parts, particularly along Texas, that's the Rio Grande, which in some places is very, very shallow, very easy to walk across. The fence, where there is fence, is -- it's a combination. Some of it is cement, some of it is chain link. It's different kinds of fences. Some of it can actually be broken through. Some of it has razor wire. Some of it is deliberately intended to stop foot traffic from going across, some of it is actually for cars and trucks.

A big focus right now is Arizona. As you can see, most of Arizona is fence. There are little bits of it that are unfenced. The issue there is that nearly 50 percent of immigration, of illegal immigrants come through from Mexico through Arizona. Border patrol says over 250,000 illegal immigrants came through Arizona last year.

Now, overall, the number of illegal immigrants moving into the United States is down and many people say that's largely because of the fence. But it's also partly due to a weaker economy. There are not as many jobs available here in the United States, so it's less of an enticement for people to come in through the border between the U.S. and Mexico.

Again, there's a lot of area there that's not fenced, largely because that's the river. It's very hard to put a fence down through the river. You could do it on either side of it, but there are parts of the Rio Grande that are very, very shallow and that's where a lot of people do actually come through.

We'll going to try and break these things down for you every day as it concerns immigration, because that's a big concern to many of you.

I've got a bit of a cold, by the way, and if you do, you might want to put your cold medicine on hold for now because that recall for Children's Tylenol and other popular medication? Well, that investigation is expanding. I'll tell you about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELSHI: You've probably heard by now about investigations into Tylenol, Children's Tylenol, Motrin, other products like that. Well, regulators are now investigating hundreds of complaints connected with that recall of more than 40 varieties of children's cold medicine.

Here's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you, Ali, things do seem to be getting bigger here when it comes to these products, all these different medications. What CNN has learned is that right now there's an investigation into 775 serious side effects that might be attributed to these medications. That's over a two-year period. That's according to a source close to a congressional investigation.

But what's even, I think, a little bit more concerning is just over the last month, since May 1st, they're looking into several hundred more potential serious side effects and at least seven deaths. We've been talking about the recalls for some time, but it's now the largest U.S. recall of children's over-the-counter medications. Over 50 different varieties of these medications in children, they are simply hard to find. And some of the adult medications as well, for example, medications for arthritis also being recalled.

Really focusing in on two issues here. One is, was there some contamination of these medications? There was a bacteria found at one of the facilities. Could that bacteria pose a problem? Could it mean that other contaminants also potentially got into the system? Those are questions that are being tried to answer right now.

Also, the dosing of these medications. You expect a certain amount of reliability when you go to the store and buy the medication. What they found is that, for example, with Tylenol, the active ingredient, acetaminophen, could be up to 24 percent higher in some of batches than others.

There are also questions about more inactive ingredients and black particles and a strange odor coming from some of these medications. That's what's really driving a lot of this, obviously, now the concern about the serious side effects and the potential deaths.

This time of year, a lot of parents need these medications. We do as well, and they are hard to find. I've got three kids who get sick. Your best bet is this, if you had these medications in your home and you're worried, go to fda.gov, check the lot number. If they match, it's on the recall list, throw that away. If you find the medications in your stores now, those are medications that are newly resupplying those stores, so they're going to be OK to get.

And there's always generics. You can try generics, at least until you get the all-clear sign as a medication that can treat your symptoms, treat your children's symptoms just fine.

Ali, back to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: All right, Sanjay, thanks for that. We'll stay on top of that story too. A lot of people are worried that they may have some of the medicine that's been recalled. Look at the lot numbers on the container.

As Sanjay reported, you can go to the FDA Web site -- that's www.fda.gov -- to check out the number, the lot number on your medication against the recall. It's really easy, really worth doing.