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Boat Captain: Fishing at a Halt in the Gulf; Business Owners: BP Not Paying Enough for Lost Work; Oil Spill Killing Wildlife
Aired May 28, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn things over now to T.J. Holmes. He is sitting in for Ali Velshi. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now.
T.J. HOLMES, HOST: All right, Tony. Thank you. We're probably going to get a whole lot more on that Sestak situation coming up. Tony, thank you so much.
And hello to you all. We're coming up on 1 p.m. in the afternoon here on the East Coast and Atlanta, where I stand, sitting in today for Ali Velshi. Welcome to you all.
We are all about the top kill today. Is it really working? We're going to get into that this hour. They've been trying this for the past -- a couple of days now. They had to pause it for some time, this method, trying to stop that oil leak that's going on right now as we speak, and it's been doing for the month gushing oil out into the Gulf of Mexico.
The president is there. We're going to be hearing from the president in about a half hour. Expected to make some live comments coming up in just a bit.
Also, we have news we're getting out of Pakistan where a number of people, dozens of people have been killed after an attack there. A mosque actually under siege. Dozens dead there in Pakistan. We'll be getting into that here in a bit.
But again, the big story today certainly is going to be what we are seeing in the Gulf Coast right now.
Let's head on over this direction now. The head of BP saying that maybe a 60 to 70 percent chance right now that this thing is going to work. And what this thing is, is the top kill method.
What they're trying to do is take this thick mud and push it down, shove it down into that well to try to stop it, and then put cement on top of that. Hopefully, seal it up, and no more oil will be spilling.
We have seen this live picture that -- have we been seeing. Let's go ahead and take that picture we can show folks. This is happening live. This is some -- a mile down in the Gulf Coast right now. A mile down below the surface of the water. Now, with these pictures we've been seeing for the past -- almost a week now that BP made available to us, at first we were see that black oil coming out in these different shots. Well, we saw after they started this top kill method, kind of -- it changed. The color changed of whatever was coming out of that pipe. And BP officials are saying that is evidence that they believe there is, quote, "some success" in this top kill method. A success being that they believe now this mud, what you're seeing coming out, kind of this muddy material, that substance is coming out now. And that, in fact, shows that the method is working and that oil is no longer going out.
We showed you that video. I think we were cueing that up. But the president is there in the Gulf Coast as we speak. He got there just a short time ago. He is going to be making some comments here in a little bit, and we will take those live for you when they happen.
The president, of course, trying to reassure, really, everyone down in the Gulf Coast, including the elected officials, and certainly the people whose livelihood is on the line down there, that the federal government is on top of this and trying to get it worked out.
Now, we have been talking to certainly many of our reporters who are fanned out. We will certainly touch base with them throughout the next hour or so. But also a lot of people down there who -- like I said, livelihood is on the line. A lot of fishermen, fishing boat captains, especially, who depend on the Gulf to make their living.
One fishing boat captain, David Boola, he is on the phone with us, I do believe, now, from Venice, Louisiana.
Captain David, we appreciate you taking some time out with us. Can you give us an idea of how your business is right now and how your business usually is right now this time of year?
CAPTAIN DAVID BOOLA, FISHERMAN (via phone): Right now it's at a stop; it's at a halt. Usually, 30 days in the month this time of year we can work all 30. And you know, it's at a complete stop.
HOLMES: A complete stop. Captain Boola, how -- how long can you now hold on before you're either going to have to take some drastic measures or find something else to do, quite frankly?
BOOLA: We're working on, you know, doing some things right now, but it's not what we usually do. You know, we want to be taking people fishing. And we -- if I had, you know, 100 spots to fish, we're limited to ten, and you have more boats than spots right now, and it's just not working out.
HOLMES: Captain Boola, is it an issue that a lot of people, they just believe that there's no way to fish and the fish are bad? Is it's just a perception that people just don't want to come down there anymore? Or is there a problem that you don't have anywhere you can go fish now because of the restrictions in the Gulf?
BOOLA: It's been up and down. You know, one day they open this area, the next day they close it. Then they open up another area and they close it. And you know, I have myself. I mean, I have people that book flights, and you can't hold them on the spot like that. And you know, it's hard to make plans when they keep on changing things. So yes, we do have spots to fish sometimes, but they just got us bent over a barrel, you know.
HOLMES: And Captain Boola, has -- BP, I know they have been handing out some checks, giving some money, trying to help out a lot of people down in the area. Have you been able to get any kind of money from BP, and has it helped at all?
BOOLA: Myself and most -- most of the other people around here, they received that first $5,000 check. But as I said, you know, we're supposed to be working 30 days a month right now, and that's -- that's a small fraction of what we need to operate. You know, most of these boats are going to make somewhere around $30,000 a month, you know, just on average. And it helps, but you know, it's not what we -- what we're used to. And we have a lot of bills. We have boat notes. We have insurances, you know, et cetera. I mean, we -- we got a lot at stake right here.
HOLMES: Captain Boola, besides money, what else do you need from the president, from the federal government, to help you out and to make it through this period?
BOOLA: I'd like President Obama to look at Bobby Jindal and look at our parish president, Billy Nungesser, and say, "Hey, boys, y'all do what needs to be done. I'm giving you permission right now." And I guarantee you we'll see -- we'll see some forward progress.
HOLMES: It sounds like, sir, you think more so the federal government and the bureaucracy is getting in the way right now.
BOOLA: It's just way too much red tape. And we don't have time for that right now. This place is still alive. I can go catch fish right now. You know, they're out there. You know, the whole place isn't covered in oil yet. But if they let the local officials do what they want to do, we can save this place.
HOLMES: Sir, what does your Memorial Day holiday weekend look like?
BOOLA: It looks like everybody is waiting to see that well completely plugged. You know, I mean, nobody -- there's not a lot of around this area planning on having fun this weekend. We're waiting to hear the news that, you know, that the well is totally capped and hear news that they're going to let our local officials do -- it's just a big waiting game.
HOLMES: And again, just reminding your viewers we're talking to Captain David Boola, one of those captains down there, many -- taking people out on these fishing charters. Those people are canceling these trips left and right because they believe, quite frankly, there's no fish to catch, there's nowhere to fish and that the beaches and everything is covered in oil, which is certainly not the case. The president is there right now. Captain Boola, last thing here to you: how much does it help? Does it help to at least see the picture of the president down there in the area today?
BOOLA: In my opinion, you know, it's definitely a good thing. He needs to be down here. But you know, we need to get him out of the helicopter and bring him in a boat and let him see it firsthand what's really going on. I mean, I'd like him to really see what's going on. In the helicopter you get just an idea.
HOLMES: Captain -- Captain David Boola, sir, we appreciate you taking the time and sharing your story, an important one that people need to hear. And again, that message very important.
Like you say, folks, it's OK. All the beaches are not covered in oil; all the fish are not covered in oil. The entire Gulf is not shut down. Captain David Boola and others need you to come down to the area.
Captain Boola, good luck to you. And we hope to check in with you sometime down the road. Thanks so much.
BOOLA: All right. Thank you, sir.
HOLMES: And again, a reminder to our viewers here. The president, you saw some of those pictures. He got to the Gulf Coast area just a short time ago. Been there on the ground a couple of hours now. Expecting to hear from him at the bottom of the hour, so about 25 minutes from now. When he comes up, we will take those pictures for you live.
Of course, he is down there at a time when there's growing anger all along the Gulf Coast. Business owners say they are losing money every single day, like you've just heard from Captain David Boola there. They're losing money, but they're also losing patience, yes, with the federal government but also with BP.
Seven minutes past the hour. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRAPHIC: 840,000 Gallons of Dispersant Used
GRAPHIC: 11.1 Million Gallons of Oily Water Recovered
HOLMES: Just some of those huge numbers, statistics from this BP oil spill.
BP says it's already handed out thousands of claims paid out to tens of millions of dollars. You just heard one fisherman say he got one of those $5,000 initial checks, which did help some but certainly is not going to help him make it too much longer.
The people, though, whose businesses are suffering because of that mess say that money is nowhere near enough. They say the losses are growing. At the same time, their anger, as you could imagine, growing, as well.
Our Ed Lavandera has more for us from New Orleans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: T.J., BP says it has already paid out millions of dollars to people affected by the oil spill, but the people getting those checks, many of them say that the money they're getting falls way short of what they deserve. And around here, trust in BP is in short supply.
(voice-over) Chris Battle and his crew of crabbers want more than just talk from BP. They want money.
(on camera) How much money do you think you lost?
CHRIS BATTLE, CRAB FISHERMAN: Oh, close to $20,000, $30,000. You know. I mean, that's -- it's a good bill.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Crab fishing waters closed for more than three weeks because of the oil spill, leaving these guys out of work. When Battle filed his claim with BP, all he got was a $5,000 check.
BATTLE: At this time of year, like, I mean, I'm catching $2,500 to $3,000 worth of crabs a day. And they wrote me a check for $5,000. It's just not enough. It's not -- it's not what I lost. I mean, if you go by what I lost, I lost way more than that.
LAVANDERA: Deckhand Derrick Bennett says he only got a $725 check for the three weeks he was out of work. And he says he can't find out from the claims rep if more money is coming.
DERRICK BENNETT, CRAB FISHERMAN: He tells me to call him back every week. I call him back every week, it's the same (EXPLETIVE DELETED) over and over again.
LAVANDERA (on camera): So far BP says it has paid more than $35 million on about 27,000 settlements. The company promises that this is just the beginning, that it's only a partial settlement. But around here, people who make a living off the Gulf waters say it's going to take a lot more than that to make things right.
(voice-over) Anger is spreading across the Gulf Coast, and many business owners like Buggie Vegas don't trust BP to pay up.
(on camera) So business has completely disappeared?
BUGGIE VEGAS, BUSINESS OWNER: Just -- I sold four cups of coffee this morning.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Vegas owns the Bridgeside Marina in Grand Isle. He filed a claim more than two weeks ago, and he's still waiting for a check.
(on camera) What have they told you that you can get?
VEGAS: They're putting us in a large claim, and they said we could get $5,000.
LAVANDERA: Just that? That's it?
VEGAS: That's what the large claim.
LAVANDERA: One check for $5,000?
VEGAS: That's what they tell us. That don't even pay the light bill.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): At town-hall sessions, BP claim representatives are getting an earful from angry folks out of work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When that oil is gone, BP is going to be gone, too.
LAVANDERA: But the company vows to bring more money and streamline the process.
ALAN CARPENTER, BP CONTRACTOR: We're doing as much as we can as quick as we can as far as that goes. That is not the end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are taking the next step within -- actually, we've begun taking the larger claims which affect businesses like yours. It wasn't there in the first 30 days, you're right. But it's now time for the second phase.
LAVANDERA: Those are just words for Chris Bennett and his crab- trapping crew. They won't count on any more money from BP until they see it.
(on camera) Interestingly enough, BP has contracted out the claims process to another company. And they do say that anyone not happy with the money they eventually receive from BP will have a chance to make their case in an arbitration hearing -- T.J.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right. Thank you to our Ed Lavandera.
And a reminder: we are waiting remarks from President Obama. He arrived in the region not too long ago, just a couple of hours ago. Expecting to hear remarks from him at any moment. There -- you see him there on the coast, there on the beach, just seeing what's out there. And quite frankly, a lot of what's out there is ugly right now.
The president did make a trip there May 2. That was just about 12 days or so after the initial explosion that sank that Deepwater Horizon rig out there in the Gulf of Mexico. He made a trip a couple weeks after that. And now here the president is on his second trip before he then heads on to Chicago for the long holiday weekend.
When the president does step to the podium, expecting some remarks, really, at any moment. When those happen, we will bring those to you live. Now we'll turn to the stock market now. A lot of people have been upsie-daisy and downsie, if you will, as well. Our Christine Romans is going to help you with a little perspective for your portfolio after all of this topsy-turvy we have been seeing. She's coming up right after the break. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back. We're going to talk about your money now. But a reminder: we're waiting to hear from the president on the Gulf Coast. When that happens we will bring that to you live.
But, May is just about over. So does that mean the wild ride we saw on Wall Street is over, as well? Christine Romans joining me now.
Christine, hello. Good to see you, as always. Just because May is over doesn't mean we get to start anew necessarily with the stock market, but it would be nice.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: No. Yes, it would be, because, you know, there's this old saying, T.J., on Wall Street, sell in May and go away. And that's exactly what happened. They sold in May and went away. And we hope the volatility goes away, but I really doubt it. There are so many things happening in the world.
And you can see just exactly what happened in stocks, this wild ride, 1,000-point swing in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, believe it or not, in the month of May.
On April 26, we had a Dow at 11,205. By May 27, we had 10,250. That's 1,000 points. That's 8 percent, more than 8 percent of your portfolio, if you were tracking the Dow, for example. G-O-N-E, gone.
So we'll see what happens going forward. But in many cases the gains of the year are out of here.
And T.J., it brings me to an issue that Ali and I tackled this weekend on our show, "The American Dream, American Reality." Look, the stock market is wild. Unemployment rate is 10 percent. You've got a lot of people asking, "Are we resetting for a new normal? And what is the American dream going to look like going forward? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS (voice-over): At the birth of America's Great Depression, the phrase "an American dream" was born. In 1931 author James Truslow Adams coined the phrase in his novel, "An American Epic." It was, he wrote, "that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement."
Just what is that dream today? And what is the reality?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It always seemed to be that it was, you know, have your own home, be able to have a better life for your kids than you did for yourself. ROMANS: The numbers are less dream and more nightmare. Almost 10 percent unemployment. A staggering 46 percent have been jobless for 27 weeks or more, unheard of in a modern economy. One in ten people with mortgages are behind in their house payments. A widening gap between rich and poor. And a sinking feeling that we did it to ourselves.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: And a great analysis of how we're going to fix it and get out of here and what the American living standard is going to look like for the next generation, T.J. Not all -- not all hopeless. I've got to tell you, a lot of hope in there, too, about how the fix it and how we can do it together. Saturday 1 p.m. Eastern, Sunday at 3. Ali and I -- Ali and I had a very -- a very good time putting that piece together. So hope you guys all join us and watch.
HOLMES: Well, we will. And you're right: we need to monitor and adjust those expectations of exactly what that dream should look like these days. We look forward to seeing that. Christine, always good to see you. Thank you so much.
And a reminder, as she was saying there, Christine, Ali Velshi, the special, "American Dreams, American Reality." That's Saturday, 1 p.m. Eastern and then Sunday at 3 p.m. Eastern Time.
We want to now give you a look at some of the stories that are making headlines right now.
BP planning to start pumping mud again today to try to plug that oil leak. They admit, though, it could be another 48 hours or so before we actually know whether or not that so-called top kill procedure is a success.
President Obama is in the Gulf Coast. He is getting a look at the situation, his second trip he's made since this whole disaster started. We expect to hear comments from him shortly. We'll take those live when he does come out to speak.
Also, the House expected to vote today on repealing the controversial "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays in the military, part of a larger defense policy bill. The same compromise also passed the powerful Senate Armed Services Committee. The full Senate still has to vote on it, but no change can become official until after a White-House-ordered review that's due sometime in December.
Also, take a look at what's happening out of Pakistan. Particularly, Lahore, Pakistan, where at least 80 people are reported dead in violence there. Government officials say a pair of attacks targeted members of a religious minority group. Gunmen armed with AK- 47s and grenades stormed two houses of worship. Several suicide bombers also detonated their vests.
Well, there is a lot of wildlife just now starting to wash up ashore in the Gulf Coast, victims, as well, of this entire oil disaster. Now, we're just starting to see the beginning of this. We could be seeing stuff like this for a long time to come. We're taking a look at the long-term effects coming up next.
All right. And also, the president, as we said, we expect him to -- him to step to that podium in just a short time. Expecting him, literally, in only minutes. When he does step to that podium, you will hear his comments live. Again, just minutes away, the president down in the Gulf Coast, taking a look at the disaster area.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hundreds of birds, fish, dolphins, sea turtles, we don't even know the number. There's no way to count it right now. And it -- it goes on and on. I'm talking about dead animals, of course, in the Gulf of Mexico.
Dr. Greg Bossert is the chief veterinary officer of the Atlanta Aquarium. He worked on the Exxon Valdez. He worked with the U.N. on the Persian Gulf when all that oil was spilled in the Persian Gulf on purpose, 20 times more oil than we've seen here. And even on Exxon Valdez, you say now that this is worse than the Exxon Valdez? This has nothing to do with the Exxon Valdez. Why, Doctor?
DR. GREG BOSSERT: Well, this is a totally different event. The Exxon Valdez happened in Alaska. The ecosystem is different. The weather is different. But probably more importantly, this whole spill is totally evolving differently. This is an oil spill that's not finite, a surface oil spill like from a tanker that happens on the surface and impacts the coast. This is deep. It's occurring deep, and it hasn't stopped. So it's coming from the bottom to the top.
MYERS: So this is what with see. These are the pictures that we see, the oiled birds and so on. But there's a lot more going on in the water column this time, right?
BOSSERT: What's more disturbing is what we're not seeing.
MYERS: Exactly.
BOSSERT: And that's the key here. We're not seeing these...
MYERS: This is what we see. This is what we're not seeing. This is underwater video. What are the animals doing in that?
BOSSERT: Well, that's the concern, the impact to the really fragile ecosystem, the microorganisms that are supporting the entire base. These microorganisms kill and eat the oil. And if these organisms are impacted, then the ability to get rid of this oil goes away.
MYERS: What do you expect the impact to be?
BOSSERT: Well, you know, we don't know. This is certainly an unprecedented event. And it has a great potential for impacting the ecosystem and wildlife. But it's evolving very slowly, in slow motion as we're watching. We just don't have a basis to know what's going to -- what's going to happen.
MYERS: Could this affect the entire world?
BOSSERT: It could. Basically because if it gets outside the Gulf and perhaps the loop current that goes around Florida into the Gulf Stream, could impact other parts of the world, as well.
MYERS: We don't want to see stuff like that.
BOSSERT: No. And this is one of the things that differs. Right now we're just starting to see the oil spill effects on the land. But it's not nearly as bad as we've seen in other oil spills.
MYERS: Thank you for coming in on your day off and explaining how really critical this is that we get this top kill done today to stop more oil from coming into the Gulf of Mexico -- T.J.
HOLMES: Yes, the problem is certainly twofold now. I mean, we've got to stop the leak in the first place, but now we've got -- trying to keep all this oil away from that precious ecosystem, away from so many of the shores.
We appreciate him coming in, like you said there, and really a sobering assessment but reality, and we've got to look at reality here.
President Obama getting a look at reality himself right now. He is in the Gulf Coast, his second trip since this whole disaster started. We're minutes away from hearing from the president live. Expected to make some remarks. When that happens, really, literally, we're expecting it to happen at any minute. When it does, we'll take that for you live.
We're also checking in with our people there on the ground in the Gulf Coast region, including our White House guy, Ed Henry. It's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: You see some of those huge numbers we are getting in relation to the huge oil spill disaster in Gulf.
Welcome back. I'm T.J. sitting in for Ali Velshi today. We are awaiting comments from the president. He is touring the Gulf coast area today. His second trip since this whole disaster started. When he takes that podium, we will hear from him live. Of course, we heard the press conference yesterday that the president saying emphatically that in fact the federal government is in charge of this operation, and BP is acting in their direction.
Now, we have our people fanned out across the Gulf coast region covering this story, including our David Mattingly who is in Robert, Louisiana, and also, our Ed Henry, who is in Grand Isle.
Gentlemen, thank you both for being here. We're going to chat and try to wait for the president to come out here shortly. I will start with you, though, Ed. On the political front, at least, how important is it for the folks in the area, at least -- you can talk about it all day long, but how important is it for them to see the image of the president standing on the Gulf coast?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It is extremely important, T.J. I can tell you, I was just talking to a woman here on the beach literally a couple of moments who told me flatly she believes this is President's Katrina. I challenged her and said why do you say that? You know, for real? She said, yes, it's worse than Katrina because this is going to go on much longer. At a least there was an end there eventually, as awful as it was. I said, months? She said, no, this is going to go on for years.
Let me give you an idea of the tiny, little aspects of it. This little thing known as a tar ball. The president was just walking on the beach down the way from me a short while ago and was looking at these little tar balls. It's basically sand mixed with crude oil that's washing in off that water.
To give you an idea, this is what it did to a little bottle of Ocean Spray cranberry juice. You can see it all mucked up. It smells once it gets on your hands a little bit. It makes a little bit - sort of a sickening smell once it gets up close. This is a tiny little example. Obviously, when it gets on the wildlife here, when it affects the fisheries, that's why people in this region are so upset about it. This woman who was attacking the president was telling me she believes it's taken too long for the Obama administration to take this head on.
As you noted, you heard President Obama yesterday at the news conference at the White House saying he does not believe that analogy that Katrina is correct. He said he believes when the history books are written, it will show from day one of this crisis, he was in the Oval Office with his aides, saying this has to be our top priority.
You can bet that in a few moments when the president comes out at the Coast Guard station just down the way from where I am right now, he's going to try to make the same point. But as you have seen some of the national polls suggesting, a majority say the American government was too slow, that President Obama has not acted aggressively enough. He has an uphill battle here, T.J.
HOLMES: Yes. We talk about certainly, the president and administration trying to avert a political disaster. Much of what we saw during Katrina, some would say.
So, David Mattingly, let me turn to you to the actual disaster itself now. We were trying to get as much information we could with what was happening with the top kill operation. We were kind of surprised that hear that it had been shut down for 16 hours yesterday.
Has it been restarted? Are we getting more updates? Do we officially know that top kill is once again underway?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: BP's CEO Tony Hayward gave us our only update today, our only insight into how this process how it's going. He talked about two important steps that they seem to have taken forward. First of all, they were able to push this mud that they're taking about, this heavy liquid that they're using to drown that oil well, push that oil back down into the well under heavy pressure. They were able to push that mud down into the well to some extent.
Then they took a break. They stepped back. And it was 16 hours before they tried to start pumping liquid again. That 16-hour period, they were looking at the data, they were looking at the pressures they were dealing with because, again, they have never ever tried anything this far down in the ocean. So, they were making sure they were doing this right.
They saw some encouraging signs. And then they tried again. They tried to pump this liquid in. This time using the so-called junk shot. That's when they inject solid material, different-sized solid material like pieces of tire, sometimes even little rubber balls, to help sort of clog up the works and give that liquid that they're putting in there sort of a backstop so they can have a footing to push more pressure down on that well.
Well, they tried the so-called -
***(START OF UNEDITED CAPTIONS - 1335)
They tried the so-called junk shot and tony hayward tells us that that was -- there was some success with that. Then they stopped pumping again as they analyzed it. He did not say yet exactly when they were going to start pumping again. What it was presumed, he said, that they were going to be starting to pump that heavy liquid back in today and as you look at that live picture of the oil spewing out the top, there at the riser, at the kink in the riser pipe, you know, you see this cloud coming out. And even when they're not pumping mud at this point, there's a great deal of that mud coming out of the top. It doesn't look like that black cloud of oil and the white spray of natural gas that we saw in the past. While they're doing that that mud is actually helping to obscure the release of the petroleum, of the hydro carbons into the environment and when they're pumping that mud, it completely obscures the oil. So while they're pumping, they are stopping that leak. The point here is to stop it permanently. They want to push that oil down into the ground, then seal it with cement. They haven't gotten to that point yet. And that's what they're looking for. And the head of bp saying this morning he was looking at possibly 48 hours before they know for sure if this plan really is going to do what they hope it does.
Again, like you say, some success, but we still might be waiting through the weekend so see whether or not this actually works. Ed henry, I'll come back to you. We are waiting to hear from the president. We expected him at the bottom of the hour to step to that podium. He's been down there with several governors and local officials to look at the damage. He took a helicopter tour, I do believe, but back on land now. Expecting him to step up to that podium to give an update kind of like we saw yesterday in that press conference, answering a lot of questions. Ed henry, I'll come back to you. The president -- how tricky of a situation is this here? if you say that you are in charge of this whole operation, then if something goes wrong, then you get blamed for it. But at the same time, if you say that bp is in charge of it, then people say, well, wait a minute, bp is not getting it done. How fine of a line is the president and how politically dangerous is it for the president to come out and say, hey, this is our deal?
Very dangerous. You put your finger right on it, t.j. We have to point out in fairness to this president, there's no magic solution here. Obviously some of the greatest minds, engineers, have been racking their brains around this for more than a month now. If there were some magic switch the president could turn on to make this go away, he obviously would have done that already. I think, however, where the president has run into some trouble is there was some confusion early on it seems to me as to really who was in charge. And what I base that on is my own reporting at the White House just last week I and others were pressing robert gibbs, White House spokesman, about why the federal government doesn't stepping in. He kept saying legally, the federal government really wasn't the responsible party here and, practically, the federal government didn't have the equipment and the know-how to take control. And was not in charge. Just last week robert gibbs was saying that. Then yesterday the president comes out and said not only is the federal government in charge now but has been from day one. That clearly seems like a contradiction from what his own aides have been saying throughout this cris. I think while we have to say in fairness to the president that this is not easy or it would have been taken care of by bp and/or the government by now. On the other hand, the administration has not helped itself with some confusing statements that has only made the public maybe perhaps a little more, you know, misunderstood about where this really is and who really is calling the shots, t.j.
Our ed henry, david mattingly, stand by the you can. We're going to get a quick break in. We're standing by waiting to hear from the president. He is in the area. His second trip now since this whole disaster started. When he steps to the podium, you'll hear it live. When we come back, david mattingly, we talked about some success on this top kill method right now. Bp says it's 60 percent or 70 percent chance of working. If it doesn't work, do they have another contingency plan? standing by waiting for the president.
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Again, standing by waiting to hear from the president who is in the Gulf coast right now visiting. Taking a look at what's happening down there to the folks along the Gulf coast with this oil spill. We are continuing to stand by. When the president does come out to speak you will hear that live. Meanwhile, we have our people fanned out covering this story, the political angle. Certainly the economic and ecological angle as well. As you see we have ed henry who is on the coast, also david mattingly in robert, Louisiana, and candy crowley standing by for us in Washington. David, I wanted to come brach to you on this question, top kill. 60 percent or 70 percent chance of this latest effort working to shove this mud down into that well. 60 percent or 70 percent, that means there's a 30 percent to 40 percent chance it won't work. What's the back-up plan to this back-up plan? rfr that's right. That number not exactly inspiring a lot of confidence, but bp actually in some of the comments they made yesterday sounded the most optimistic that I have heard since I have been here when they were seeing some success with each of these steps. So for them to say something like that publicly indicates that there is a chance, they think, that this is going to work. But again, like you said, 60 percent to 70 percent is not that great. So what they were doing was preparing for other eventualities if this doesn't work, they were going to have a backup plan ready to go right away. So if they decide today or tomorrow that this top kill is not going to be the solution for them, then they've got a plan that will launch within a couple of days to put sort of a containment dome over the top where we see all that oil spewing out right now out of the top of that riser pipe. They're going to put a type of containment dome over there after sawing that pipe off to collect that oil. So they're switching from a strategy where they're going to stop the oil right now and if they can't do that, then they're going to look for a better way to contain it. We saw a variation of this earlier when they put that containment dome over one portion of the pipe, and that didn't work. And then they put an insertion tube in there to siphon off some of the oil, that was only marginally successful. This is another variation on those, first of all, failed and then not so successful attempts to stem the flow of oil into the Gulf. One thing that the president mentioned the other day was the first mistake he made was that he underestimated the oil industry's ability to respond to a catastrophic threat. Well, apparently the oil industry never ever thought that something like this would happen. So everyone is learning from bp as they take these steps through here. I'm sure the president would like to have some good news when he's on the ground here to say that there's some hope here. But at this point, bp has not been able to deliver that to them.
Well, maybe the president will be able to deliver us some good news, like you said. Expecting to hear from him at any moment. Expecting it at the bottom of the hour but gone about 15 minutes past the time we were expecting him. When that happens you will hear from him live. Candy crowley, let me bring you into this conversation here. What is the president going to do to what seems to be this steady drum beat of something we've heard before, the federal government and bureaucracy getting in the way of getting things done in the Gulf coast, of all places, at a time of disaster? how is he supposed to battle that?
And that really is a big part of the problem because it is a familiar area of the country to people who watched katrina and all the ways that the government bumbled that. So immediately when you look at this situation that's been going on for more than a month, that's what people think. I think that's why you see the numbers for the federal government, approval rating for the federal government's handling of this going down. The president's approval rating for his handling of this is going down because people get frustrated. Why can't the federal government fix this. As much asp some people want a smaller federal government. When you have something
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CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: -- this catastrophic they want the federal government to step in and do something.
But more than that, and I think you saw this yesterday with the president, and you're seeing it in picture form today, people want their president to look as though he's involved in it sort of emotionally, if that makes sense. They want their president to care. And they want to know that he understands what's going on.
So, you heard him yesterday saying I'm in charge, I wake up in the morning, I think about it. I go to bed at night, I think about it. My daughter is worried about it. Now, you see the pictures that go with those words. I think the biggest thing they want to get out there -- let's face it, the president can't stop the leak. The federal government can't stop the leak. The experts are in the industry.
So, now the most important thing the president can do is, A, focus on the clean-up, but, B, show people that he gets it and understands it.
HOLMES: Ed Henry, let me bring you back in on that point Candy was just making. We talked about this a second ago, Ed. Who is exactly is in charge? Because yes, the federal government can direct BP, but then we saw the issue over the dispersants, they told BP to stop using a particular one. BP says, no, we're not going to stop using it.
So, the people down there -- do they really, the folks you've been talking to, really feel like, okay, it's nice to see you, Mr. President. The help you can give would be great, but get out of the way and let our local folks who know how to do this, who how to save this area, who have their heart it into, let our local people, these parish presidents, mayors, governors handle this?
HENRY: Yes and no. They want the mayors, the governors, the parish presidents to be heard, but as Candy was suggesting, it takes the federal government oftentimes to actually deliver the services that they need. In fact, one of the big frustrations here is that the Republican governor, Bobby Jindal, had said more than two weeks ago that he wanted help building these barriers outside the marshlands and what not behind me in order to put up a barrier, to prevent the oil from washing onshores (sic) like this.
You know, to hear the accounts of local officials here, it sat on some bureaucrat's desk for a couple of weeks. When you ask who is really in charge here, Thad Allen, the Coast Guard commandant, is supposed to be the federal official who is in command here on the ground. The locals here have been complaining to me and others that this request to help build the barrier sat on some bureaucrat's desk for a couple of weeks.
Now, as you heard the president yesterday at the news conference saying, we're moving forward on that now. Some people here are saying, too little too late. The one woman I was talking to a couple of moments ago here on the beach who said she believes this is Mr. Obama's Katrina was citing that very incident that they should have responded much quicker.
So, I think Candy's right that people talk a lot about a smaller government, and they want their local officials to be heard. But it takes the big, federal government and the resources, the vast resources, to help deliver that.
HOLMES: All right. Ed Henry standing by for us. David Mattingly as well. I'm going to come back to you. And our Candy Crowley, all standing by covering this story.
Again, we are waiting for the president. Don't go too far away because when the president steps to the podium - again, he's making his second trip to the Gulf Coast region since this disaster took place. We're expecting him at any moment to step to that podium. Maybe he will give us an update about what he heard and quite possibly, like one of our reporters suggested, some good news about what he is seeing and maybe if this top kill method is working. And maybe finally some success in plugging that leak.
Almost ten minutes to the top of the hour. Quick break. We are right back.
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HOLMES: All right. Stand by. We are waiting to hear from the president here in just a moment. And -- in just a few moments. The president is touring the Gulf Coast area, getting an update about the situation there, including an update about this top kill method, which has been underway for the last couple days now. Nearly 48 hours ago is when they first said they were starting this top kill method, which is essentially trying to shove this mud into that well to stop this -- to plug, at least, this well and this gushing oil and then put cement on top.
This is once again the live picture we do have access to. This is happening 5,000 feet below the surface of the water. These live pictures provided to us by BP about a week ago. We -- at first, were starting to see these, thick, black oil. It was clear. You could see black oil coming out.
Well, it has changed since they started doing this top kill method. Some officials will point to and say this is an indication that in fact, they believe this top kill method is working, because it looks more like a muddy consistency, a muddy, cloudy substance coming out other than the oil. They believe this is starting to work. Let's rejoin Candy Crowley, David Mattingly, and also Ed Henry, who are standing by with me to continue our conversation. Again, we're waiting to hear from the president and when he comes out, we will take him live.
David, explain that picture one more time and what gives, at least the BP officials, some hope that this is starting to work? Again, we were clearly seeing black oil come out when we first saw the live pictures. It clearly has changed.
MATTINGLY: What they're telling us is what we're looking at now is a cloud predominantly that -- mud solution that they're injecting in there. So while they're doing this, the mud is obscuring to some degree, and at some times, even shutting off the flow of oil into the Gulf of Mexico. So, temporarily, that's very good news. They hope to be able to sustain that, and push that oil deep down in the well and seal it off with cement. They haven't been able to get to that step yet.
But we talk about when the president comes here, and about how much is riding on the success of this top kill operation. The president -- and the other day with his remarks, was talking about how he gets it. How he gets the environmental damage here, and what it means to Louisiana. He talks about when growing up in Hawaii, how they looked at the oceans as sacred.
Well, here in Louisiana, they look at the wetlands as sacred, because that's the heart of the fisheries, the most productive fisheries on the Gulf Coast. And this oil has hit in those fisheries. And that's really what the president is up against. That big emotional moment.
When we saw this thick, black crude -- you see how thick it is in this bottle. It's just that thick out there. This is what I collected when I went out with Governor Bobby Jindal about a week ago. Some of this is still out there, sitting in the wetlands. And they're saying, okay, how did it get there in the first place? How did this stuff get past all the booms you were putting out, past all the skimmers you were doing?
Jindal was using that moment a week ago as a huge political "I told you so" to say we need more action from the federal government. We need more freedom from the federal government. We need the permits from the Army Corps of Engineers to start building up these earthen, offshore islands to catch the oil before it comes here.
Well, we just found out yesterday that some permits have been approved, but that was too late. This had already gotten into those wetlands. That was a huge, big political turning point in this crisis for the president here. And now he's going to have to answer probably some questions about that. How was it that this oil was able to get through, why wasn't there more action when we were calling for it?
HOLMES: All right. They will hear some more of those answers from the president. Again, we are standing by to hear from him. Ed, David, Candy, as well. I want to come back, and Candy and ask you how difficult it is from the president to now hear from Democrats who were saying he should be doing more, including one prominent Democrat who is a big supporter of the president and a native of the Gulf Coast region, James Carville. We'll ask Candy about that and continue our conversation with Ed and David in just a moment. Quick break. We are waiting to hear from the president in the Gulf Coast region.
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HOLMES: Coming up on the top of the hour, expecting to hear from the president at any moment from the Gulf Coast. But while he's dealing with that situation, also dealing with some political fallout now after new details about a possible White House involvement in Pennsylvania's U.S. Senate primary.
Our senior congressional correspondent, Dana Bash is with us on Capitol Hill for the latest. Dana, just allow this -- maybe it wasn't illegal, but it just stinks, some would say.
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And some are saying it, point blank. This is something the White House was forced to report on internal deliberations, political deliberations that were going on about whether or not Congressman Joe Sestak should get into the race, and challenge fellow Democrat Arlen Specter. The White House did not want that to happen.
And what we learned today was that they didn't want that so much, that the White House chief of staff, Rahm Emmanuel enlisted the help of former president Bill Clinton to call him up and offer him a nonpaid and unpaid position in the administration while staying in the House of Representatives. They were forced to do this under pressure from Republicans and Democrats. The White House insists that this was not something that broke the law.
While Congressman Sestak, of course, he is still currently a member of the House, he is running for the Senate. Just moments ago, going up into the House to vote. He said he would talk to us in a little while, give us information and elaborate on the conversations that he's had.
But before that, he actually did release a written statement. and here's what he said. He talked about conversation he had with President Clinton. He said, "He, President Clinton said the White House chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel had spoken with him about my being on a presidential board while remaining in the House of Representatives. I said no." Point-blank, I said no. And he went on later to say he felt it was best to serve the people of Pennsylvania in this Senate.
Now, he talked about the fact that people are saying that this might have been illegal, despite what the White House counsel is saying. You bet. Republicans, particularly in the House, the lead Republican in the House Investigations Committee said that he believes that Rahm Emanuel and perhaps the president committed a misdemeanor, and regardless, he said they violated the spirit of the law and the spirit of their political promise. Take a listen.
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REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: The point is not is it technically legal or illegal. It clearly is illegal. Will there ever be a charge filed? Probably not.
Is it unethical and unseemly? Absolutely.
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BASH: Now, the question is, did President Obama know this was going on? According to an official familiar with the deliberations, this official says no, the president did not know at the time. He obviously found out subsequently.
And this official also said that Rahm Emanuel did not tell the White House counsel before he embarked on this mission to try to get Congressman Joe Sestak not to run, not to challenge fellow Democrat Arlen Specter in the Senate race in Pennsylvania -- T.J.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a lot more details we got about that in just the past couple of hours, a story that Republicans, admittedly, are not about to let go of anytime soon.
Our Dana Bash.
We appreciate the update on that story.
