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BP Preps New Plan; Coping with Disaster; White House Defends Oil Response; Next Steps; Parallels Drawn in Oil Spill and Bay of Campeche Oil Spill; Lionel Richie Headlines National Memorial Day Concert

Aired May 30, 2010 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: The head of BP is telling people of the Gulf Coast these two little words many wanted to hear, "I'm sorry." But he also says his company has done, quote, "quite a good job at keeping the oil from shore." Still, though, as you know, no end in sight for the crude gushing from the ruptured pipe at the bottom of the ocean.

Meantime, President Obama's handling of the crisis is on the minds of many people, perhaps even you. And deputy political director, Paul Steinhauser, joins us from Washington with some new poll numbers.

But no fix, no solid timeline, and no patience left in the Gulf of Mexico today after that last best chance to really stop the gushing oil failed just like the rest of them. We're going to take a live look here underwater nearly about a mile, 5,000 feet, way beneath the ocean where thousands of gallons of oil are still blasting out each and every day.

Crews -- they are working on getting that equipment in place for that next attempt to contain it. And we're hearing either tomorrow, possibly Tuesday, that is when they will start cutting off the damaged part of the lower marine riser package. We're about to start talking a whole about the LMRP which is actually the top of the failed blowout preventer stack. Then they have to get this custom made cap to fit on top of that. That's the fall-back option.

Now that we heard yesterday, the big news, the top kill has officially failed. And even if this step is a success, the flow may not completely stop until August. That's the timeline we're hearing when those relief wells are supposed to be finished.

Meanwhile, many, many people who live along the Gulf Coast -- they are fed up with the constant set of setbacks. In fact, some people gathered in protest today near Jackson Square in New Orleans.

And our very own John Zarrella is also there in New Orleans for us, standing by live.

And, John, we've talked about, what, the top hat, we talked about the containment dome, we've talked about the top kill, now we're talking LMRP. Walk me through this next step please, sir. JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The -- you know, the failure of top kill is certainly devastating news, terribly frustrating to people here in the Louisiana area and, certainly, along the Gulf Coast who had their fingers crossed that top kill would, in fact, work. It did not.

And now, we move on. BP moves on to this lower marine riser package cap. And they're saying that it will be probably four to seven days before they're actually ready to go ahead and put that cap on. That's the latest estimates that we have heard.

And this is how it's going to work: First off, as you mentioned, what they're going to do is lower a device down there that's basically like a saw, and they're going to cut off a portion of the riser pipe, quite a bit away from the blow-off preventer. Then they will go in and just below where that pipe is crimped, they will make another cut very close to where the top of that blowout preventer. They move that away. And then after that is done, after they finally get that piece moved away, after they've cut it away, then they will lower down over the very top of the blowout preventer that cap, that lower marine riser package cap.

Now, as you mentioned, that's not going to stem the flow of oil. In fact, at a briefing today at the White House, the president was told that initially after that piece of pipe is actually cut away, there may be a 20 percent increase in the flow of oil out of that blowout preventer. Then they'll put the cap on, and even that won't completely stop the flow of oil. It's important to note that that is not a real mechanical fix. It will fit over the top but it won't completely stop the flow of oil.

Now, Tony Hayward, the CEO of BP, today is talking about how they believe that, in fact, they have done a very good job of at least containing the oil, keeping it away from the beaches.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY HAYWARD, BP CEO: We've actually done quite a good job of containment in the offshore. There hasn't been a black tide. We've had small impactful, you know, from my personal perspective, devastating, as far as I'm concerned a cup of oil in the beach is a failure. I'm very clear about that.

But we have done a good job of maintaining a vast majority of offshore oil, and, you know, there's been some places where the defenses have been breached. And, you know, that's tragic, but we're going to clean it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Well, you heard there, again, reiterating the fact that they will clean it up. BP is going to do the cleanup.

And off to my right here, you may be able to see it. There is a NOAA survey ship here, and that ship was diverted here just in case it's needed. And what they would do, if they go out, is actually survey the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico in areas around that leak to see exactly what is happening on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, John. Hopefully, those two little words, "I'm sorry," will make some feel at least better along the Gulf. And I'm sure, now, even in New Orleans, but some, I'm sure, would say too little too late.

John Zarrella for us in NOLA -- thank you.

The disaster looming offshore and the damage already done have a lot of people living along the Gulf Coast trying just really to make sense of all of this. And today, Sunday, a lot of church-goers were looking for answers as you may imagine.

CNN's Carol Costello is in Grand Isle, Louisiana.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The frustration level is very high here. People just want to know what they can do to help, and there's nobody to tell them what they can do to help. The anger level is so high at BP that at one Catholic Church this morning, Father Michael Tran, well, he doesn't mention one word in his sermons.

When you talk about BP, how do you talk about that company, you know, during your sermon?

REV. MIKE TRAN, OUR LADY OF THE ISLE CHURCH: Well, I try not to use it, you know? It's obvious, people are going to say BP and use their name. But I try to not use it as much as I can.

COSTELLO: So, you don't invoke BP's name in church?

TRAN: I try not to. Yes. So --

COSTELLO: Because you don't want to incite people any more than they already are?

TRAN: Correct. They're already upset and they're frustrated. And I don't want to make it worse. Yes.

COSTELLO: It's a very complicated relationship between the oil industry and neighbors. On the one hand, neighbors want to throw the bums out. On the other hand, they know they need the oil industry to fuel Louisiana's economy. I talked to parishioners about BP as they went into church this morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just think something needs to be done. And I don't think they're really trying. They need to do something. The people down here are really in bad shape, especially the fishermen. They can't fish. They can't shrimp, and that's their livelihood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very depressing. It's just very depressing. We grew up coming down here. We've had a camp down here my whole life. And it just breaks your heart.

COSTELLO: Do you think it will ever be stopped?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes. It will eventually stop and they'll clean up. That's not the question. The question is how much damage there will be in the meantime.

COSTELLO: As one woman put it to me this morning, she's going to pray for everyone involved, including BP, so they can somehow find an answer to this problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: All right. Carol Costello for us in Grand Isle.

You know, we've talked about the LMRP. Now, we've heard from the people. But, what about the president? The Obama administration now is really defending its role here in this disaster response.

CNN's Dan Lothian is with the president in Chicago over the weekend.

And, Dan, I know there was a lot of talk on the Sunday shows this morning. In fact, Carol Browner, who's the president's adviser for energy and climate change, saying that the president's energy secretary, Steven Chu -- interestingly, I read about this this morning -- playing a major role in calling off this top kill operation.

In fact, I want to read this to you. She said, "Dr. Chu has been leading a team of 150 scientists. In fact, it was Dr. Chu's team that said to BP yesterday we are very, very concerned, if you continue to put pressure into that well that something even worse could happen."

Dan, what's behind all of that?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, I can certainly tell you that the administration has been very clear that the role that Secretary Chu has played in this entire process, laying out that he was there in Houston during the assessment period when they were trying to figure out whether or not they should move forward with top kill and then he was also there during the operation as it was being carried out.

And then after it failed during that release that the president put out yesterday, he talked about how he had talked with Secretary Chu along with others, and then they were given the word this procedure would not go forward. So, certainly, I mean, he's one of what they referred to as the big minds, the scientists who have been brought in to carefully analyze and watch over all of the steps being taken in this effort to cap this underground leak.

Now, the administration continues to push -- on the other hand, BP, in another effort. They want more transparency because Carol Browner also pointed out something that president himself said in his recent press conference, that BP hasn't always been transparent in terms of laying out the full-scale of the disaster. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL BROWNER, W.H. ADVISER, ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE: We do realize there was some places where we could have moved more aggressively. One of them was asking for all of the data which we needed to do these flows. But it is important for people to understand: BP has a vested financial interest in downplaying the size of this. We're on top of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LOTHIAN: Now, the president today was briefed by Carol Browner, as well as Thad Allen, who is the government's top point person in the Gulf. He was told about the efforts to skim and also burn off some of that oil -- also, updated on this latest effort to put a containment cap over the leak.

But in addition to that, the president was also updated on what they're saying will be increased efforts by officials on the ground to, quote, "be more responsive to needs identified by local communities." And this just points to something that we heard earlier from others there in the Gulf, that there's this anger, that there's this frustration there that the government is not paying enough -- the government and BP perhaps not paying enough attention to some of the needs of the communities. So, this effort here for officials on the ground to do just that.

BALDWIN: Yes. And that's precisely why we're hearing from, I think, people like Russel Honore hopefully calling, declaring this a national disaster for precisely that reason.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

BALDWIN: Dan Lothian for us in Chicago, traveling with the president. Dan, thanks.

Now, the blowout preventer, BOP, the failure of the BOP on the Deepwater Horizon is now calling into question the condition of thousands of oil wells in the Gulf of Mexico.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB DUDLEY, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BP: Everyone in the industry has to step back, look at this piece of equipment that generally the industry regarded as failsafe, go back, figure out what happens, understands it, disseminate that and make sure it doesn't happen anywhere, anytime, anywhere in the world again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That is BP managing partner, Bob Dudley, on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley. We will have that full interview, all seven minutes, if you want to watch it -- ahead this hour.

Also, plenty of oil leaking in the Gulf, plenty of finger- pointing as well as to who should take the blame here. What do you think?

Our deputy political director, Paul Steinhauser, joins us next with some new numbers to sort all of this out for us.

And also, a strange twist in the story of a teen's abduction that was caught on tape. New information today on what apparently was behind this whole thing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: This disaster in the Gulf sparking a whole lot of political finger-pointing back in Washington. You have accusations against BP, the president, the government, just about everyone really taking some of the blame and hearing criticism.

CNN deputy political director, Paul Steinhauser is here to sort through all of this.

Paul, good to see you.

Let's begin with, of course, the president. You know, like we had, easy to say BP you're to blame, but a whole lot of other people are saying, Mr. President, you should have been involved a whole earlier. I mean, talk about, if you will, just the political impact of this disaster on the White House.

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, you have seen, Brooke, a rising chorus of criticism directed not only at BP, that's obvious, but at the White House as well, at the president, over the last couple of weeks. And it was coming not only from Republicans -- you would expect that -- but also from his own party, from the Democrats.

I think that's one of the reasons you saw the president go back to the region. He was there again on Friday. And the day before, he had that news conference.

And a couple of themes that he put out over those two days were: A, this administration has been on top of this from day one; that the administration, not BP, is calling the shots. That was one of the critiques aimed at the White House. And also, the president said in Louisiana the other day, the buck stops with him.

So, do Americans think he's doing a good job? Take a look at these poll numbers from CNN/Opinion Research Corporation. We did these about a week ago and you can see here, a slight majority say they disapprove of how the president has been handling the spill in the Gulf. You have other polls from other national organizations also show the president in negative numbers, below 50 percent on that question, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about this other political talker, that being the controversy with former President Bill Clinton, you know, that we've heard perhaps the nudging of Rahm Emanuel, call-up Congressman Joe Sestak, asking him perhaps to stay out of the Democratic Senate primary, which we know now he hasn't because he's declined the offer. He won the primary, beating Arlen Specter.

So, how damaging might this be to the White House or even to Congressman Sestak?

STEINHAUSER: Let's start with the White House because I think may have made matters worse. Congressman Sestak came out about three months ago and said at the time that he had been contacted by somebody from the White House about this. So, it took three months for this finally, for the White House to come out with a report which they did at the end of the week which stated that they did nothing wrong in this matter. But the fact that it took them three months to do it is kind of put the spotlight back on them. People wondering why -- why it took so long.

As for Sestak, he's in a tough race right now against Pat Toomey up there. Again, it doesn't help, but now, the fact that it came out now rather than closer to the November election is probably a good thing. The White House is again saying they've done nothing wrong. This is something that past administrations have done.

Listen, it's natural that they would want to avoid a primary contest. But remember, when Barack Obama was running for president, he promised to change the business as usual ways of Washington. And these kinds of things, while not illegal, are unseemly and, you know, he promised not to do this in a way.

BALDWIN: And again, these are pictures we saw, the congressman coming out after a long day on Friday, finally speaking to members of the media. Interesting there.

All right. Paul Steinhauser, joining us from Washington, thank you. Enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.

STEINHAUSER: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Thanks.

Another strike on British Airways. What's behind it, and how many customers are actually being affected by it?

And we now know the oil will be gushing for quite a bit longer in the Gulf, but now that hurricane season is upon us, in fact I think it's Tuesday is June 1, right? Our Jacqui Jeras will tell us what's next for coastal residents.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. Let's get you caught up on some of the day's top stories.

First here, this case of possible kidnapping in Stafford, Virginia, appears to be a family fight. An amber alert went out yesterday after a camera -- here's the picture at a Target store -- caught this violent abduction. There it is. See, they're grabbing her. A young woman is doing all she can to break free, but it turns out, the people grabbing her right there, they're her relatives. The 17-year-old did not want to move with her family. So, apparently, they grabbed her and headed down to Florida where authorities stopped the van and determined this is all just a family dispute. The sheriff's office is still deciding whether or not to press charges.

And a second round of strikes for British Airways cabin crews. They launched this new five-day strike today after negotiations between the airline and the unions failed over pay and working conditions. British Airways says it plans to operate about 70 percent of its long haul flights in and out of London's Heathrow Airport. By the way, that is Europe's busiest airport.

And here we go. First tropical storm of the season has killed at least 19 people there in Central America. Take a look at that gushing water. Heavy rains are triggering flash floods and mudslides. We're talking about Guatemala and El Salvador.

This is tropical storm Agatha. It's now been downgraded to a tropical depression. It is moving now into southern Mexico.

And it could, as you know if you've been following along here in this oil story, could be August here before the oil leak in the Gulf is officially contained. That's the relief wells. And that means hurricanes could be a huge factor.

Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras is here with that.

And, Jacqui, you have a massive oil then you have a hurricane. Together, not good.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, not good. Believe it or not, there are actually a couple of benefits.

BALDWIN: Really?

JERAS: Believe it or not, we'll get to that in just a second.

BALDWIN: OK.

JERAS: But overall, what we're looking at is that it's not a matter of what the oil will do to the hurricane, it's more of what the hurricane is going to do to the oil.

BALDWIN: Do to the oil.

JERAS: Exactly. And so, we put a couple of bullet points here together and help you walk through this and tell you what you can expect.

And the fact of the matter is, we're in unchartered territory and we don't know for sure. A couple of things that we can point out: We think that the oil will have a minimal impact on a well-developed hurricane, and here's one of the reasons why. The oil spill compared to the size of hurricanes for the most part is pretty small. We took a satellite image much Hurricane Katrina, which was massive and filled up much of the Gulf of Mexico. And you can see how huge that is compared to the size of the oil slick. So, much, much bigger. This is not solid, thick, black oil. You know that this is patchy in this area. So, something else to think about.

All right. Point number two here: that the oil that comes onshore is going to depend on the track of the hurricane. So, which way will the hurricane move that oil? Hurricanes, they have winds that rotate counterclockwise, so if the storm comes into the west, it's going to be bringing that oil in onshore. If it comes into the east, it's going to be bringing it offshore. So, it depends which way it goes. But either way, it certainly churns up that water very significantly, and will bring oil in places that it wouldn't normally go.

Now, storm surge, that big wave or that rush of water that comes onshore when the hurricane makes landfall, this will likely bring some oil inland, in places that certainly wouldn't see the oil the first time around.

And last but not least, a lot of people have been asking me this question: will it rain oil? The simple question is no -- or the simple answer is no.

BALDWIN: Yes. When I was talking a lot of people down there and they thought, oh, my gosh, this oil is going to coat my house if a hurricane comes.

JERAS: It will not.

BALDWIN: It will not. Hallelujah. Jacqui Jeras, thank you.

JERAS: Yes.

BALDWIN: BP's managing director sits down with our own Candy Crowley. She did talk to him this morning to discuss what the company plans to do next really to stop this massive oil leak that's gushing in the Gulf. You will hear that entire conversation. You do not want to miss this. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's take a look underwater. Let's take a look at this site. It's about a mile beneath the ocean. This is BP's ruptured oil well.

Now, government scientists are estimating about 800,000 gallons of crude mixed with gas is spilling out each and every day. Folks, that is nearly four times the original estimate. So far, as much as 40 million gallons have poured out of this well since that Deep Horizon drilling rig suffered that catastrophic explosion -- can you believe that was, what was that, April 20th? It killed 11 workers and sank the whole rig.

Bob Dudley is managing director at BP. And earlier today, he spoke with CNN's Candy Crowley on her show, "STATE OF THE UNION," about this latest setback why the top kill isn't working, and trying to cap this gushing well.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": I want to read something that caught our attention. It is from your CEO, Tony Hayward, from a statement last night after you decided the top kill was not working. He said, in part, "I am disappointed that this operation did not work. The team executed the operation perfectly, and the technology worked without a single hitch."

So I'm left the question, so if the technology worked without a hitch and the operation was executed perfectly, what the heck went wrong?

BOB DUDLEY, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BP: Well, Candy, we are disappointed. We didn't wrestle the well to the ground last night. We're disappointed the oil is going to flow for a while, and we're going to redouble our efforts to make sure it's kept off the beaches.

What he's referring to there was, at 5,000 feet, we did set up a technical operation that allowed us to pump these heavy fluids and bridging materials into the well. That in itself is what he's referring to as having been executed well. People did a tremendous job on the engineering and the many scientists both from the government and BP made that part happen. But we were not able to overcome the flow of the well. There was too much flow out of the top, and we weren't able to drive these fluids down. So we're immediately going to move now to a containment operation.

CROWLEY: So basically. You've moved from trying to plug this gusher, which proved more powerful than the mud, and the next procedure tries to contain it?

DUDLEY: That's right. We will put a cap on the top of this well. We'll do a sophisticated operation with robots and make a clean cut across the top of a piece of equipment down there, called a lower marine riser package, with diamond saws. And then we will lower down over that a cap to produce it from the surface. We learned some things from the previous cap we tried that created hydrates that made it float, really. This time, we circulate warm seawater down around it to prevent it from happening. Our objective is to contain a majority of the oil and gas.

CROWLEY: Some of our reporters have talked to some scientists and some experts on this who say that it's possible, when you cut that broken pipe that's on top of the blowout preventer, that you could make the oil flow more. That it would just become a bigger gusher, at least temporarily, if not for a long time, if this cap doesn't work.

DUDLEY: Well, right now, the oil is flowing out the top through a number of holes right there that your viewers will see sometimes, right above the top of the well and then down the end of the pipe. We don't believe that's creating that great of a restriction. There may be a small increase, but you should not expect to see a large increase, if any, by cutting this off and making a clean surface for us to put this containment vessel over it.

CROWLEY: When you say containment, it's possible that you can't contain it all. There will still be a leak, but hopefully a smaller leak?

DUDLEY: That's right. It's not a pressure-sealed vessel, but we believe it will get the majority of the oil and gas. Because there's such a high concentration of gas, if there is some gas that leaks out, it will look like a lot, but we think we'll be able to get the majority through this dome and then produce it up to the surface.

CROWLEY: And is it safe to say that, with each new attempt to try to contain or control this gusher, the chances of success get less, assuming that you started with your best chance to begin with, that now we have an evener less percentage of a chance it will be successful?

DUDLEY: Well, I think the top kill operation itself was something that had a level of uncertainty to it, because it was something that was just so new. We weren't sure we could pump that mud in and maintain those pressures. This is a containment operation that, I think, is more straightforward. It's certainly not certain at these depths. It will all be done by robots. So I think we move to the containment, whereas before we were trying to, in an early well, shut off the well flow completely. Backstopping all this will be a relief well down there by August.

CROWLEY: But we're moving towards the possibility, as you try option after option, that August, and those more permanent relief wells may, in the end, be the only thing that works.

DUDLEY: For shutting off the flow from the well, that's possible.

CROWLEY: For stopping the gusher completely.

DUDLEY: Now we're going into a containment operation. And any of those barrels we bring out will keep it out of the ocean. and then we'll be able too refine this system and either further contain it, and the scientists and engineers who spent all of the night before looking at the pressure data, may yet have another idea about how to shut off the flow as well.

CROWLEY: It's just that after some attempts and they haven't worked, you could understand there might be skepticism that we're looking at August before this gusher can be shut down.

DUDLEY: But, Candy, if we can contain the flow of the well between now and August, and keep it out of the ocean, that is -- that's also a good outcome as well. Then, if we can shut it off completely with the relief well, that's not a bad outcome compared to where we are today.

CROWLEY: It seems to me that looking at these various options that we've been through and the ones that you're now coming up with that there was not in place any specific plan in case this happened. In fact, we know that BP said that you didn't see this kind of catastrophic event happening. And in any case, you could control it. It now appears that you can't or at least haven't been able to do it for six weeks now. Do you think, after this is all over, that there are BP executives that ought to resign over the fact that there didn't seem to be anyone contingency plans for this sort of thing?

DUDLEY: Well, Candy, this is an unprecedented accident in the oil and gas industry. There have been more than 5,000 wells drilled in the Gulf of Mexico alone at deep water, 500 or 600 of those below 5,000 feet. BP itself has drilled many of these wells. The failure of the blowout preventers, which is the ultimate multiple, redundant fail-safe system, has not happened like this before.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: But still, shouldn't you foresee and say, what happens if all of a sudden the blowout preventer doesn't work? Things break down. Just because it didn't happen before. Toyota didn't have problems with its accelerators before. It just seems like somebody somewhere ought to have been in the office of safety precautions, and what are we going to do next. It doesn't seem that was there, was it?

DUDLEY: These multiple redundancies in this blowout preventer, it's more than just one fail-safe system. It's layer after layer after layer. It's used in the industry all around. That's why this accident is so significant, because everyone in the industry now has to step back and look at this piece of equipment that, generally, the industry regarded as fail-safe, go back, figure out what happens, understand it, disseminate that, make sure it doesn't happen anywhere, any time, anywhere in the world again.

CROWLEY: BP's managing director, Bob Dudley. Certainly, despite the skepticism, I know everybody wishes you all well in the next attempt. Thank you.

DUDLEY: Thank you, Candy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: You can see that entire interview and much more when "State of the Union" with Candy Crowley replays tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern time.

Meantime, just ahead for us here, massive oil spills just like this one, they have had happened before in the Gulf of Mexico. I just learned about this. This is fascinating. The last big one, 30 years ago. Have you heard about the blowout of Ixtok? You're about to. We're taking a closer look, then and now, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Many experts are drawing this parallel between the BP oil spill of today, of 2010, and a very similar accident back in 1979 off the Yucatan Peninsula. That Mexican oil spill took nine months to fix. Russ Chianelli is an expert on oil spill cleanup and how oil impacts the environment. He's a former chief scientist on the Exxon Valdez spill, and today he's with University of Texas-El Paso.

And, Russ, I just find this fascinating because, as keep talking about what's happening in the gulf and all the barrels of oil spilling every day and the fact it's unprecedented, some are saying not so fast, let's talk about the Bay of Campeche and the blowout of Ixtok.

And draw some parallels for me, sir, on some of the similarities.

RUSS CHIANELLI, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS-EL PASO & FORMER CHIEF SCIENTIST, EXXON-VALDEZ SPILL: Yes, that's exactly right. There was a different cause. But for nine months, as you've just say, the oil was spewing into the Gulf of Mexico, Bay of Campeche.

It was interesting too. When you look at the report, it was 4,000 barrels a day or 40,000 barrels a day. There was a lot of discussion about what the size was. But I think it's reasonable to say that it's very similar to the one occurring right now. And we have a lot to learn from it because a lot of people studied it watched it in those days.

One of the things we learned from it is very little of that oil actually reached the beaches. There was some, but in terms of the total percentage, which was about 400,000 tons -- I like tons, because they're smaller than gallons --

(LAUGHTER)

And that Exxon Valdez was about 40,000, so ten times bigger. And the reason for that is that hydrocarbon degrading organisms live everywhere in the sea, and they feed on petroleum. Everywhere in the sea, there's something like two million to 12 million tons every year that are put in naturally through these things we called seeps. Particularly, in the Gulf of Mexico, Bay of Campeche, where the temperature is warm, they're very hungry, and they took care of a lot of oil.

BALDWIN: But, Russ, a huge difference, which I think is equally fascinating and not great for our situation currently. You mentioned the fact that the booms worked back in the day, not a whole lot of that oil actually reached some of the areas' lagoons and wildlife. In the case in Louisiana, we have all these intricate exposed marshes and the oil is getting there.

CHIANELLI: Yes, but I think when you look back at Campeche, again, too, it was a shrimping area. And if you read the old reports, you see that the scientists looked at that and were quite surprised that the shrimping industry recovered in about two years.

So I want to emphasize -- I don't want to down-play what we need to do, but I want to emphasize again that the oil is so natural in the ocean that these organisms do a lot to take care of the oil.

BALDWIN: At least the shrimping industry bounced back. And again, with that, we're drawing conclusions that it was the relief wells that fixed that thing. We hearing August, so hopefully that's when we can close this chapter.

Russ, thank you for joining me from UT-El Paso.

Now, one of the chemicals here BP is using to disperse the oil is banned in other countries, so why are those chemicals used in every- day products here in America? We're going to watch "Toxic America." It's this two-night special investigation with Dr. Sanjay Gupta, beginning Wednesday night, 8:00 eastern.

Checking some of the top stories now. Canada's top soldier in Afghanistan has been relieved of duty because of allegations of an inappropriate relationship. The Canadian military has a strict non- fraternization policy. It says Brigadier General Daniel Menard's alleged relationship caused the military to lose confidence in his ability to command. Military command says it won't release additional details about those allegations, but has launched an investigation.

The Indy 500 ended in spectacular fashion today. Take a look at this frightening -- Yikes! -- frightening crash, involving driver, Mike Conway. Went air-borne. You saw him crash into the fence, landed upside-down. Conway injured his leg but he reportedly suffered no other serious injuries. Also, Dario Franchitti was the winner, his second Indy 500 victory in the past four years. Danica Patrick, if you're watching out for her, she finished in fifth place.

Memorial Day weekend marking the unofficial start of summer. A new study on pool inspections reminds us of the old rule, don't let your kids drink the pool water. The CDC just released its research on about 120,000 swimming pool inspections in 13 states. Here's what the inspectors found. One out of eight pools had to be closed because of serious code violations. The worst offenders are pools at child care facilities, followed by hotel/motel pools, and then the pools at your apartments and condos.

Each and every year, they take to the streets to honor prisoners in war and troops missing in action. We're talking about Rolling Thunder. At a rider's day, they will keep at it until everybody comes home.

And a traditional patriotic show in the nation's capital. Lionel Richie. There he is.

LIONEL RICHIE, SINGER: How are you doing?

BALDWIN: Hey, Lionel Richie. Good to see you. Often you're on. You're headlining this thing. How are you?

RICHIE: It's been quite a two days here, I must tell you. The entire nation, I think, is in Washington, D.C., right now.

BALDWIN: Awesome.

(LAUGHTER)

RICHIE: Everybody's here.

BALDWIN: Stick around. I'm going to talk to Lionel Richie, coming up. He joins me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: In little more than an hour, the National Memorial Day Concert in beautiful Washington, D.C., will be beginning outside of the capital building there. It is a time really now to honor, for music and memories, those who made the greatest sacrifice. The headliner of the event? None other than Lionel Richie.

(LAUGHTER)

He joins us tonight from our D.C. bureau.

You are kind of cutting it close. This thing starts in an hour and you are hanging out with us on CNN, Lionel. That's pretty awesome.

RICHIE: Well, you have a wonderful opportunity to talk with a nation, and you, on one hand. And, of course, the show is going to be unbelievable. Every veteran that was ever in a war is probably in D.C. right now. I have never seen patriotism so overwhelming right now. It's wonderful.

BALDWIN: Yes, I woke up thinking of my grandfather, who was in World War II, who is buried in Arlington National Cemetery. I'll never forget going to his funeral. It was just beautiful out there.

Why would you want to perform, other than the obvious, why would you want to perform at this event?

RICHIE: My dad was World War II, Army World War II. I grew up in a military family. And so I just can't imagine -- and my heart goes out -- I just can't imagine dad not coming home. And just think about this now. We are talking about celebrating World War II, the Korean War, the Iraqi War, the Afghan War, of fallen soldiers, who gave their lives, the ultimate sacrifice for this nation. And my dad not coming home -- I just can't imagine being in a family of two or three kids, and what do you from here on without dad? I'm here. When I say that, whatever I can do to lend that hand or to support, I have to be there. It's just part of my being right now.

BALDWIN: So you will be there and you will be thinking about your dad.

RICHIE: Yes.

BALDWIN: There will be hundreds, I'm sure thousands of people who will be thinking about people in their own family, people here at home and away. But do you think -- some of us were talking, we think, hey, a lot of us think, Memorial Day, awesome. It's when the pools open.

(LAUGHTER) A lot of people -- let's be honest, Lionel, a lot of people forget what the purpose is behind this weekend.

RICHIE: This is why I am here. Every once in a while you just have to take a step back. We forget. We hear all these Fourth of July and holidays coming up. We forget that, behind the holidays, there is a meaning as to why we're having these holidays, just not a day out of school or a day off from work, especially Memorial Day. You have to think about it. These men and women gave their lives for the freedom that we are enjoying right here in this country. The fact that we are at the pool on Memorial Day is because someone went out there and did the ultimate sacrifice on our behalf.

So I think this is a reminder that I want to give when I walk on the stage, is if Lionel Richie can take his Memorial Day and put it away, I want everybody else to do the same.

BALDWIN: Yes, and I know they've been having -- I have lived in D.C., and they have had this thing going for 20-plus years. And it is not just music, which is a wonderful way to bring people together. There will be speakers. They are honoring, what, the anniversary of the Korean War, the widows --

RICHIE: The Afghan War, the widows of the Afghan and the Iraqi War.

BALDWIN: Yes.

RICHIE: And we are going all the way back to World War II and World War I, and all the wars. And this is the first time they've every done this. Normally, they would pick a war, because that would be the one they would focus on. But now they are going for all of them. Right now, this nation needs to come together and understand there are generations of sacrifices here, just not one particular group right now.

BALDWIN: All right. I am going ask an obvious question. Why is it significant for you to play this concert and sing? But we due up this interesting tidbit and I just want you to react to it. We found out that Iraqis, Lionel, Iraqis are obsessed with you. In fact, your song, "All Night Long," was playing when the U.S. entered the country seven years ago. What do you make of that?

RICHIE: I have the other half of this story. You want to hear this one.

BALDWIN: Yes.

RICHIE: OK. They were playing "All Night Long" when the troops entered the city. You're right?

BALDWIN: Yes.

RICHIE: OK. Well, I spoke to one of the commanders and they wanted to have a battle song when they entered Iraq. The battle song that they played on top of the Humvees, on the speakers, was "Dancing on the Ceiling," was what they played driving in, as "All Night Long" was playing when they got there. I was --

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: You're everywhere. On both sides.

RICHIE: It's amazing.

BALDWIN: Lionel Richie, wonderful seeing you. Amazing of you just to stop by and chat with us about this great concert. Have a wonderful time tonight. We are thinking of your father. We're thinking of these heroes that served our nation.

RICHIE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Lionel Richie, thank you so, so much.

RICHIE: Take care.

BALDWIN: All right. What a great man. They formed a very loud parade while speaking for people silenced by war. The motorcycle group, Rolling Thunder, headed out this morning to remind us of the prisoners of war and the troops missing in action and still unaccounted for to this day. The annual Ride for Freedom also honors those now serving.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have got bikes coming.

GARY SCHEFFMEYER, PRESIDENT, ROLLING THUNDER GCNN CORRESPONDENT: The motorcycles are a draw.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tighten it up. Tighten it up. Tighten it up.

SCHEFFMEYER: There is a mystique about bikers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tight for the ride. They call me Papa T.

Thanks, folks, good job.

SCHEFFMEYER: Rolling Thunder is a non-profit organization that is dedicated to the POW/MIA issue and veteran's rights.

TERRY WILDEMAN, VOLUNTEER: I'm not a veteran but I ride for my nephew, Sergeant Steven (ph) Sherman. He was in the 25th Infantry Division and he was killed in Iraq in 2005.

SCHEFFMEYER: Right now, because there is a war going on, you've got so many more veterans coming in, that we are getting a lot of younger people.

SGT. STEPHEN SCHLAU, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I am 23 years old. I did three tours to Iraq, Fallujah, Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bans, patches. SCHEFFMEYER: The Vietnam veterans, we're getting holder. Somebody's got to pick up the issue, so we're hoping these your kids that are coming in now will take care of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my first time here. I am having a blast right now just talking with the old vets and I am ready to get rocking and rolling.

SCHEFFMEYER: You just have bikes after bikes after bikes. It's just overwhelming.

WILDEMAN: Where else can you get 800,000 motorcycles together for a cause like this? It is a sea of chrome, a sea of chrome, beautiful.

SCHEFFMEYER: Loud.

We wouldn't get half of the attention, a quarter of the attention if it was called Walking Thunder. You know, if you just heard these footsteps.

SCHLAU: You hear all the bikes and just remember all of the people who have served before me and who are serving now.

SCHEFFMEYER: We want American people to know that we are there, we care, and we are not going away.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: We will continue, of course, to follow also the massive oil spill in the gulf. More facts, more figures, and reaction from those directly affected by that stuff. That's coming up.

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