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Oil Spill Disaster; The Disaster and the Response; Cleanup Crews Getting Sick; Spending Education Money Wisely

Aired May 30, 2010 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: No fix, no solid timeline and no patience left in the Gulf of Mexico today after really the last best chance to stop the gushing oil failed like all of the rest of them.

We want take you underwater and take another look at really this big gusher this is about a mile underneath the surface of the ocean where thousands of gallons of oil are still blasting out each and every day. Crews are getting equipment in place for the next attempt to contain that leak.

Now tomorrow we'll be hearing possibly Tuesday they will begin cutting off the damaged part of this LMRP, ok that's an acronym for lower marine riser package, which is actually the top of that failed blow-out preventer stack.

Then what do they do? They try to take this -- to lower really this custom made cap and place it on top of it. Now this is the fall back option as we've all heard by now that "top-kill" has failed. And even if this step is a success the flow they say will not completely stop until August when the relief well -- there are two of them -- are supposed to be finished.

Meantime, a whole lot of people who live around this area, they are fed up with the constant set back. Now some gathered in protest today that's near Jackson Square, in New Orleans. New Orleans is also where we find our correspondent John Zarrella who is joining me now live.

And John, let's talk about this next step, this LMRP. What has BP, how are they laying out how this will work?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, they are being quite candid about the fact that within the next few day they are going to as you've mentioned go ahead and -- and begin to cut that pipe and then to lower the cap on there.

But being candid that that still won't be able to stop all the oil and of course, that's the great frustration here. The "top kill" yesterday failed. BP is saying you know, they simply didn't matter how much material, how much of these heavy mud they pumped in, as soon as they stopped, the oil and the gas began to flow again.

So there was no way, no time, not enough time to actually put that concrete seal on top of the well so they went ahead and decided that the -- the best course of action was to go ahead and shut down that operation and move on to this -- this next attempt that you have been talking about and that we have been talking about which will take place in the next few days.

Tony Hayward today, the CEO of BP in a news conference, in a briefing with reporters, you know, said that in fact, they know that if that -- if they do succeed in at least getting this new device down there and it works partially, still going to have some oil coming out of -- of that -- of that well no matter what they do.

And that the bottom line though, he said that their efforts to stop the oil from reaching the beaches, they believe has worked pretty well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY HAYWARD, BP CEO: We've actually done quite a good job of containment in the offshore. There hasn't been a black tide. We've had small impactful, and you know, from my personal perspective (INAUDIBLE). As far I'm concerned, the cap of oil on the beach is safe, be very clear about that, but that we have done a good job of maintaining a vast majority offshore.

And you know, there's been some places where the defenses have been breached and you know that's -- it's tragic but we're going to clean it up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZARRELLA: Now, we've also, you know, had an opportunity while we're here there have been people coming up to me Brooke, thanking us for being here but expressing their frustrations too that the "top kill" failed.

In fact, we've talked to a couple of fishermen today. Charter boat captains today down in Venice who were saying, you know, it's like they put in the knife and they're turning it --

BALDWIN: Oh.

ZARRELLA: -- every time there's a failure. But once they pulled the knife out at least then, we can get patched up is the way they put it to us.

BALDWIN: Well, you can tell those people who come up to you I am sure we will be down there covering this thing until it's over. John Zarrella, joining me from New Orleans, thank you.

I know BP as John kind of outlined, they've really tried a couple of methods now over the course of the last month to contain this leak and at first crews tried to get that damaged blowout preventer to work, right. But as Josh Levs is about to explain, it's been one failed attempt after another since then.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But here and one of the things that we're doing is we're starting off right here on May 7th because this is when the first big thing was tried, it's around May 6th and May 7th. This was the containment dome. You were there for that?

BALDWIN: Right.

LEVS: Right.

BALDWIN: It was massive, I think it was like a 100 ton dome that they brought up from Port Fourchon. We were all hoping that would work and it didn't --

LEVS: It didn't work.

BALDWIN: -- of those crystals.

LEVS: Ice-like crystals.

We have some video, let's show everyone what happened. Basically what they wanted to do was stop that oil from spreading. You know, it's just what you imagined. The oil is pouring forth; they wanted the dome to stop it.

But this ice-like hydrate crystal form inside the dome and the thing is BP knew that could happen. That's what happens when gas combines with water. But they didn't anticipate it without be this big of a problem.

BALDWIN: That much.

LEVS: So then it basically shut it down and didn't allow it to work.

BALDWIN: Yes, yes.

LEVS: The next step we're going to look at is a few days later. Because what they are trying to do at that point was called the "top hat". Let's get weighing here. The term "top hat" was suddenly was laying around and the idea behind the "top hat" was again to put a top on this but also at the same time to prevent those ice crystals from forming. They were going pump in methanol that prevents the hydrates from forming.

BALDWIN: So is this the smaller version of the containment dome?

LEVS: Let's think of it that way. Yes.

BALDWIN: Ok.

LEVS: The smaller version that also allows methanol to be pumped in so the ice crystal shouldn't have been there.

BALDWIN: Got it.

LEVS: Unfortunately, that didn't do the trick, either. All right, so that's the next failure.

And now what we're going to take a look here. May 14th this is when we start hearing about this tube. And what happened here is this tube was kind of going to act like a straw, a really huge major straw.

BALDWIN: Right, siphoning the oil.

LEVS: Siphoning the oil and pulling it up.

And the idea was if you could pull it up to the surface, it would stop the massive spread inside the water. It could at least contain it, in the meantime.

The big problems with this one, first of all U.S. officials said from the beginning it wasn't a solution. That was never really a solution; it was an effort to contain it. But it wasn't going to solve the larger problem of the fact that it was pouring forth.

BALDWIN: So what would be the big solution?

LEVS: Right, so that is what they kept looking for. And then when this didn't work as well, this is when you get to last week, basically, this is when you get to the effort of "top kill". And we have some animation for this.

And you know, a "top kill" is different. It's not sort of an object that you're putting on top. What they did last week, this is what they were saying a 60 to 70 percent chance of success.

And the idea was to cap it using this heavy mud. They call it kill mud. And the hope was that it would reduce the pressure and therefore reduce the flow from the well and then after that kill mud was supposed to work, they are going to follow up with cement.

BALDWIN: But they couldn't even get to that point.

LEVS: Right, so that first step didn't work at all.

BALDWIN: It didn't work.

LEVS: So we're seeing all of those stuff. And then there is one more to talk about which everyone loves to talk about because of the name I guess.

BALDWIN: The junk shot.

LEVS: The junk shot.

BALDWIN: The crushed up golf balls.

LEVS: The balls --

BALDWIN: With rubbers --

LEVS: Tires, trash that's sort of makes to become a mud. We've got some video of this one too. I mean, and the idea here is just what it sounds like so they are trying to use this big dome. So that junk and put it in there. And that has been tried as well. And so far when you look at the totality, none of this has done it. All these efforts across these weeks now and we're not seeing it. So it's with all these lessons in mind the need to avoid ice crystals, the need to cap it off and the need to contain the flow that BP take this next step in a hope there's learned lessons and that the next thing will work.

BALDWIN: So now we move forward to the LMRP cap?

LEVS: LMRP cap and let's keep in mind this is yet another thing that has never been done 5,000 feet below. It is still a new challenge and we're just going to have to see how this plays out.

BALDWIN: All right, Josh Levs, thank you.

LEVS: Thank you.

BALDWIN: So after all of these setbacks that Josh has outlined. Trying to devise a plan of attack that will get the job done off of the Louisiana coast that's fast? I'm talking to two people who know the area very well, Russel Honore and Douglas Brinkley, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: So I want to give you a little better perspective as to what's working and what's really not and what needs to be done next in the Gulf of Mexico. I'm joined now by two people -- two people we're so thrilled to have on this evening who know this region very, very well.

We have in New Orleans tonight, retired Army Lieutenant General Russel Honore, a CNN contributor. And as you may remember he was the one who commanded the military response to Hurricane Katrina. Now, we also have in New Orleans, Douglas Brinkley, a presidential historian at Rice University. His many bestselling books include "The Great Deluge", about the impact of Katrina on the Gulf Coast.

Gentleman, thank you both for joining me.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Lieutenant General Honore, I want to begin with you. I know you and I were talking last night about your immediate reaction hearing the "top kill" didn't work. And I just want to ask you. We were talking so much about this relief well in about August.

But I just want to talk immediately about next, what happens next on the Coast and can it be protected?

LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE, (RET.), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, what's next is we've got to take this all along like we are fighting a war. We need to create a defensive plan. Admiral Allen has done much in the last couple of days to instill confidence that he has the capability and we'll bring the capability and to do it.

But at the end of the day, Brooke, is the trust of the people, they don't trust BP. BP deciding what they are going resource and where, BP deciding what level of compensation -- look, we've got a Stafford Act Section 5122 that clearly says if you have an explosion, that the government will invoke the Stafford Act to take care of the suffering of the people.

That's what needs to happen, the people don't trust BP. It's like being mugged on the street and having the criminal decide what level of care you get. We need to move on. Invoke the Stafford Act and start taking care of these people.

BALDWIN: So you say we can't trust BP. Mr. Brinkley, do you trust BP? Can BP do more? And I also want to ask you just about the role of the federal government here? What can the President and the administration do to force BP's hand to take action?

BRINKLEY: Well, of course I don't trust BP. At this point, nobody in America should, nobody in the world should. This is a company that has been dishonest, disingenuous, rude. Tony Hayward the CEO said that this was a little drop in the sea, the oil spill. They've been in constant cover-up in attempt to minimize things.

But where do we go from here? The relief well looks like it's going to be the answer. BP is responsible for plugging it. But we've got to do protection of the wetlands. And a lot of people in Louisiana have ideas that need to be heard. I would recommend somebody like General Honore, who I respect so much. Maybe being appointed by the Obama administration as a point person to coordinate things.

I'll give you an example. A lot of people want to go help to clean up the wetlands and the beaches but they are getting dizzy.

BALDWIN: Right.

BRINKLEY: It's a public health issue -- why isn't BP allowing people to wear surgical masks? I was here for Katrina working houses to clean debris and we put on the surgical masks. They don't want that because it's a bad visual. That's not ok for BP to be doing public health directives for the United States.

So if somebody could come in and be a command center or a point person that could run as Gen. Honore eloquently said, this is a war against the oil spill. I think we would be a lot better off. We're short on coordination right now but everybody in Louisiana and the people in America want to help.

BALDWIN: And I know we have publicly heard from BP and we've heard them say "mea culpa" today. We've heard them say it could have been worse.

We also have heard from BP on our show within the last hour but I just I want to say here on the record officially and live, hey, Mr. Hayward or Mr. Suttles, feel free to call in. We'd love to hear from you and get your perspective.

Gen. Honore, you and I were talking last night about how you would like to declare this a national disaster because you believe people along the Gulf region are the ones who have the best interests in mind of the area and should be leading this effort.

LT. GEN. HONORE: That's right. And use the local people for the response. Divide this up in grids. And I know Admiral Allen is working with the parish presidents. But at any time, you know, a governor asks to put a barrier up, or you ask them for a boom and then that decision is approved by the Coast Guard and some BP person is saying yes or no based on what they want to pay for, that's not the response that people are looking for.

The people of America didn't vote for BP. They voted for Congress and Senators and our President to take care of us in a time of need. We need to move on and put the government in charge of defending the coastline. When that oil comes here, we attack it and we have a lot more assets if we use national response plan because all of government then come. All of government is then required to see how they can help as opposed to being requested to help.

And I know Admiral Allen and his team is doing the best they can. But this is all out war. We need land, sea, and air an attack on this thing and keep that oil out of the bayous.

BALDWIN: The marshes.

LT. GEN. HONORE: Look, we are right in the middle of going into hurricane season. The people here remember a 30-foot wall of water hitting Biloxi. They remember a 17-foot wall of water coming through Lake (INAUDIBLE), coming in to Lake Pontchartrain. They know what the black wave will do.

BALDWIN: They know what the black wave will do and a lot of people down there, as you said, they are worried. Worried and that is June 1, hurricane season begins Tuesday.

Gentlemen, Lt. Gen. Russel Honore and Douglas Brinkley; we thank you so much for coming on. And we will all just be waiting as we continue or you continue waging that war. Thank you.

Now speaking of hurricane season, the first tropical storm of the hurricane season: Central America takes a deadly hit.

We'll have the latest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. Here's another proportion of this oil spill story. We're talking about fishermen who have been forced to abandon their boats because of the oil spill. They are now working on these clean-up boats for BP. Right.

They were happy they could make some money because they could not fish any more. But for some that made a bad situation worse because several of them have been hospitalized now and the chemicals used to break up the oil have been blamed for making them sick.

The situation has the head of Louisiana Shrimpers' Association making some very harsh criticisms of BP. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINT GUIDRY, LOUISIANA SHRIMPERS' ASSOCIATION: On any job in this country that I have been on, if I had nine (INAUDIBLE) accidents in a 36-day period, I wouldn't be on the job very long. And probably if I had 11 killed to go along with it I would be behind bars. And that's where this people need to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow. Well, the clothing and gear used by the clean-up workers were expected to be tested for contaminants but today BP CEO Tony Hayward has a very different explanation for what is making the workers sick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BRITISH PETROLEUM: I am sure they were genuinely ill but whether it was only from dispersants and oil, whether it was food poisoning or some other reason for them being it. You know food poisoning is surely a big issue when you have a concentration of this number of people in temporary camps, temporary accommodations, it's something we have to be very, very mindful of. It is one of the big issues of keeping the Army operating on this marsh (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So was it food poisoning or might it be something else? We had our own senior medical correspondent looking at this further -- Elizabeth Cohen -- who was in Atlanta with me yesterday. She hopped on a plane, in New Orleans now and Elizabeth, what a story. What have you found?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely. You know I was talking with Clint Guidry who is that shrimper who you just had on a second ago and I asked him do you think this could be food poisoning. Is that what is happening to your shrimpers? Is that why they have migraine, is that why they're dizzy? Is that why they're short of breath?

And Brooke, he laughed heartily for quite a while. And then when he finally could talk he said, "Food poisoning? That's --" and he used a word that begins with "b" that I can't say on television. So that was his reaction.

And then I got on the phone with the doctor and I said could these symptoms be because of food poisoning. And he said, "You know, migraines, you get a shortness of breath, irritation of the nose, not the first thing you think of when you think of food poisoning."

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Now, I know that there have been some suits filed now against BP. Might any of them be connected to some of these symptoms of sickness? COHEN: Well, actually CNN has just learned that a temporary restraining order was filed just within the past couple of hours in federal court here in Louisiana.

And here's what it is. Of the nine workers who have been in the hospital over the past five days, one is them is still in the hospital and we are told he is quite ill. His lawyer has filed a temporary restraining order; restraining BP from doing several things. One, it is restraining BP from letting workers work without a mask. BP has been very clear. BP says when those workers are out there on the waters surrounded by oil and dispersants. They don't need masks. "We know they don't need masks because of our air quality monitoring."

Well the workers, at least some of them want to wear masks and this temporary restraining order would require BP to give them masks.

The second thing it would do -- and this is really interesting -- is that it would restrain BP from harassing workers who speak publicly. I mean Brooke I've been down here now for the better part of the day talking to people. None of these nine fishermen will go on camera or even go publicly with their complaints against BP because they say they fear retaliation. They fear losing their jobs.

BP is their livelihood right now. They can't fish anymore. BP is who puts food on their table. They're afraid to talk for fear of retaliation. This temporary restraining order would restrain BP from any kind of harassment or retaliation.

BALDWIN: Well, if you get any more details or any results possible of air quality or talk to their wives and get any more details, Elizabeth, please do let us know.

COHEN: That's right.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

To our top stories now:

In Afghanistan today -- take a look at this brazen attack -- Taliban militants struck a convoy of fuel tankers in Ghazni Province (ph). It happened on a road there regularly used by NATO forces as a supply route. Security forces battled with the militants for more than half an hour before driving them away. The attack left the trucks burning but caused no injuries.

And joint chiefs chairman Admiral Mike Mullen would have preferred that Congress had held off on "don't ask, don't tell". The House has passed this amendment that repeals the ban and a key Senate committee approved its own version of a repeal. But Mullen told our Candy Crowley this morning on "STATE OF THE UNION" that he supports a compromise that allows the military to review the potential impact of the policy change before the ban is lifted.

And a second round of strikes from British Airways cabin crews. They launched a new five-day strike today after negotiations between the airline and the union failed over some of the pay and the working conditions. British Airways says it plans to operate about 70 percent of its long-haul flights in and out of London's Heathrow airport which, by the way, is the busiest airport in Europe.

And everybody agrees improving education is definitely a priority, right, but it needs money to do that. Differences arise exactly over how to go about spending that money and CNN education contributor, Steve Perry, actually sat down with former Senate Republican leader Trent Lott to get his perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRENT LOTT, FORMER REPUBLICAN SENATOR: The answer to education is not just more money. It's not just stimulus money. It's not just money for technology. It's how you use that money. And I emphasize rewards and incentives rather than punishments for the kids or for the teachers. That is --

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: Unions don't want to hear that, though.

LOTT: I know and I think that's wrong. I think that tenure and seniority is the only criteria for staying in a position and getting paid. It's not the right thing.

I mean this is America. In America you work hard, you give it your best, you show results. You can succeed.

PERRY: I just wonder if some of the reason why the black community in particular and other minority communities, especially poor communities (ph) have had trouble believing in the Republican Party is because of some of the decisions that the Republicans made.

LOTT: That's what Democrats say. And that's what they want to talk about.

I think that many aspects to what the Obama administration and the race for the top that have some positive features.

PERRY: Let's hear about that because I'm very interested in hearing what you have to say.

LOTT: I think that they are trying to improve the quality of education. I wouldn't agree with all of it and there was $10 billion in there for education. Now I didn't think that they used that $10 billion all that wisely; there's some good things in that program.

And you're going to need leadership from the President and from the leaders in the Congress. They'll say, all right, we're not going to continue down the path we've been going for the last two years. Maybe we'll take up a different order of priorities. One of those could be education.

PERRY: Steve Perry, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALWIN: And we are learning even more about the drill rig at the heart of the BP disaster and questions are being asked now about its history and its design.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: As each and every day passes, we're learning more and more about the possible causes of this BP disaster. But we're also finding that there were warning signs that not everything was OK on board that drilling rig and perhaps the most telling here, BP NOW acknowledging that it had many unanswered questions about how crucial equipment operates at such depths.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN (voice-over): As BP struggles to control the flow of oil from the Deep Water Horizon site, more questions are being asked about the rig's history and the design of some of its equipment.

BP managing director Bob Dudley was asked on ABC this week about problems back in March, said to involved gas seeping into the well.

ROBERT DUDLEY, BP MANAGING DIRECTOR: There were issues of well control and signs out there and there are strict procedures that are written for rig owners to walk through well control.

BALDWIN: The company's CEO maintains the problems were with the procedure and not design.

TONY HAYWARD, BP CEO: There is nothing unusual about the design of the well. We should await the full investigation. And trying to speculate without the fact is speculation.

BALDWIN: But design issues have led to friction at the on-going hearings in New Orleans and held by the Coast Guard and Minerals Management Service. BP drilling engineer Mark Hafle testified he made several changes to the casing designs to address problems with the well cement walls and leaking drilling mud. He was sharply challenged by one of the panel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You still think the job was successful?

MARK HAFLE, BP DRILLING ENGINEER: I don't have any data that says the job was not successful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that the well flowed doesn't tell you something.

HAFLE: The fact that the well flowed tells me that the well became out of control at some point after the (inaudible) job.

BALDWIN: In a submission to the House Energy and Commerce Committee earlier this month, BP said that it planned to review design and execution of the cement job. Then there are multiple issues with the blow-out preventer. REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: The blow out preventer it was only down there since February. In three months, the batteries went down. Therefore, we lost all power to it, the batteries should have kicked in but that didn't work.

BALDWIN: A memo from the committee chairman Henry Waxman last week said "The BP investigation has raised concerns about the maintenance history, modification, inspection and testing of the BOP. BP's Bob Dudley has since acknowledged there are many unanswered questions about the blowout preventers in deep water exploration.

DUDLEY: We know and the rest of the industry knows that we need to take a top to bottom particularly at these blow-out preventers to make sure this doesn't happen again.

BALDWIN: One industry veteran equipment is equipment. It's what people do with it counts.

JOHN HOFMEISTER, FMR. PRESIDENT SHELL OIL: How come it didn't work, is going to be looked at in terms of the judgment that people make, the level of communications, and honesty around those communications, the decisions that led to taking the mud out, the cement job which may have been botched.

BALDWIN: The mechanical aspects of drilling for oil are the easy part, Hofmeister says. Human factors are the hard part. Investigators will be looking at both factors as the search for what caused the biggest oil spill disaster continues.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: And I want to bring in scientist, engineer and inventor Bill Nye. You probably know him as Bill Nye, "The Science Guy." Bill, good to see you.

BILL NYE, "THE SCIENCE GUY": Good to see you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Let me just first ask you, you know, I was sitting in the same chair this time yesterday, and we're all watching that news conference down at Robert, Louisiana, BP's COO Doug Suttle saying top kill did not work. First I want to begin, we're you surprised by that?

NYE: Well, no.

BALDWIN: No.

NYE: But I wouldn't have been surprised if it had worked. The thing that I think is holding them back spiritually is they have to restrict the flow. Now, I get many, many e-mails to my web site, no doubt your home page, billney.com but I am sure the Coast Guard, I am sure BP gets many, many suggestions.

But basically this idea where you are going - the pressure coming out of the - let me say this, the pressure coming out of the well head is so powerful, that you couldn't even drop a heavy enough weight on it to stop it. It's just too much pressure. The last number I saw was 6,800 psi, which is enormous.

You know, 700 atmospheres of pressure. And so even if you had a big concrete slug, it would somehow blow off. And so what is traditionally done is these things are bolted down. With that said, it looks like that's kind of part of the plan is to try to put something so heavy on it that it slows it way down.

Now, you heard the story about class rates?

BALDWIN: Class rates.

NYE: You know what I'm talking about?

BALDWIN: No, I don't know class rates.

NYE: It is natural gas ice. And these things were, if I can use the expression when I was young, --

BALDWIN: Go for it.

NYE: These things were more of a laboratory curiosity. Now, at these deep, deep, cold temperatures, and very, very high pressures, they form.

BALDWIN: Are you talking about the hydrates? Isn't that what happens underneath -

NYE: Sorry.

BALDWIN: Hydrates.

NYE: A methane hydrate is a class rate. Sorry. We're saying the same thing. Sorry. So, what they are going to do. They are going to circulate methanol which is the methane alcohol. It has one OH attached to a natural gas molecule. And that they hope will keep the hydrates from forming. And I say they hope.

BALDWIN: I mean, they are hoping to have learned from, as I said, their failed attempts prior with the containment dome and the top hat. Really, Mr. Science Guy, what are they saying now? Do you think this will work? This LMRP cap?

NYE: Well, so, you know, I love LMRP.

BALDWIN: Why?

NYE: Lower marine riser package because it sounds like now the engineers were involved. In my brief experience in the oil patch, in the oil field, you may have heard the expression mud, top kill, top hat.

BALDWIN: Jump shot.

NYE: What else do we have? Jump shot. These are the good old boys and these guys are very confident, I will say, in my experience. Now, the big thinkers - no, no, they are very competent. But to get to this thing where the thing is out of control. My experience, my feeling is everybody's experience with land-based oil wells is influencing everybody's decision on the sea floor. This is to say, if you have a gusher or a blow-out on land, you get a bunch of bulldozers and you build a dirt wall around it.

And then everybody gets in there and tries to shut the thing off. But on the deep seabed, you have a couple of problems. You can't build a wall. Gravity is going the wrong way because it is making things buoyant. And then when you try to put something on top of it, that thing, even if it is made of remarkably heavy material is still somewhat buoyant. So that thing is being pushed up also by the pressure or the weight of this ocean.

BALDWIN: Give me a yes, no answer. Bill Nye. Is this LMRP cap going to work? He thinks. Yes or no.

NYE: It will work if everybody accepts that they got to let it flow full blast for a few days while the remotely operated vehicle cuts the top off and gets it smooth enough for this thing to fit.

BALDWIN: All right.

NYE: If people can't accept in their hearts letting the thing blow full blast for a couple of days, there'll be - I'm afraid there will be another Band-Aid. But look, I am one more guy with one more opinion.

BALDWIN: Yes.

NYE: The trouble is, our government, we all have to rely on people who are in this business. People who are in the oil field business, engineers.

BALDWIN: We'll have to wait and see.

NYE: That's just how it is. When you go and get on an airplane you are trusting engineers. And so the problem, I think next time, we need to have regulations that are enforced and those people that enforce it have to be well enough funded to do the enforcement and keep the inspections up. Very easy to say now.

BALDWIN: I know.

NYE: But I also would say, you got to -

BALDWIN: We got to go, Bill Nye.

NYE: When the hurricane stops, all the ships are have to leave and it's going to get worse.

BALDWIN: Oh, boy.

NYE: Thank you very much.

BALDWIN: Bill Nye, science guy. I think I got a maybe out of that. Thank you very much. NYE: Well, yes, it's a maybe.

BALDWIN: It's a maybe. Bill Nye, thank you.

Now one of the chemicals BP is using to disperse the oil is banned in other countries. Did you know that? But why are those chemicals used in every day products here in America? Watch "Toxic America," it's a two-night special investigation with our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta. It begins Wednesday night at 8:00 Eastern.

And we all know, hopefully all of us know what Memorial Day is really all about right, but tonight we will be getting a first hand perspective of the meaning of Memorial Day for this one family devastated by war and the help they are now getting.

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BALDWIN: Earlier this month, you know the story, the NYPD bomb squads elite training were certainly put to the test when a live explosive was driven into Times Square. What was it like though to the men who dismantled that car bomb?

CNN's national correspondent Susan Candiotti was given this exclusive access to the team that worked that night. And Susan, I know you've worked that night as well, all night long. And I know you are preparing this report for tomorrow morning on the squad. You're good enough to join me tonight for a preview.

And so when we talk about the NYPD and this bomb squad, what did they say about their experiences and how does that compare, that one night versus what they have to do each and every day?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Brooke, every day there are bomb squads around the country that do their work without much fanfare. And in New York City, the bomb squad is one of the busiest. Last year more than 1,500 calls and everything from bombs and security sweeps to blowing up hoax or improvised explosive devices.

Well CNN was allowed to meet and spend time with the men who were on duty the night of that Times Square attempted car bombing. A special group who takes no special credit because they say they're part of a team and happen to have a call that they admit was the event of their careers so far.

In a two-part report, the members of that squad talked about that night, taking apart a home-made bomb. They said the enormity of it didn't hit them until they were driving home that night. And we went out with them on a call to see how they approach a suspicious package. They have been getting about twice as many calls this month compared to the same time last year, Brooke. It's been a busy time for them.

BALDWIN: We certainly appreciate all their service, of course, in New York. But Susan, I think we are just looking at pictures of you putting on that big green thing, that big green suit that we are all accustomed to seeing. You're not exactly, you're not a large lady. I imagine that it weighs quite a bit. What was that experience like?

CANDIOTTI: Five feet tall, right. No height requirement for it. Yes, I'm short. It was really cool, Brooke. You know, they invited me to put it on. That suit weighs 85 pounds.

BALDWIN: Wow.

CANDIOTTI: It is hulking protective gear. Stiff material. You can barely move in it. And once you put the helmet and the mask over your head, it has tube piping in air from the outside. But if it is hot outside, so is the air. And they even had me perform a little test to see whether I would fall over. When you see this you may have a greater appreciation for what they do. I know I do. And you will see the report starting tomorrow and Tuesday on CNN.

BALDWIN: Tomorrow and Tuesday, we'll look for it. We'll see if you can fall over on AMERICAN MORNING. Susan Candiotti, thank you for that.

And as I mentioned before, we're going to get the first-hand perspective really of what Memorial Day means. We have one family good enough to come forward and share their pain and also their pride. That's coming up.

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BALDWIN: This holiday being Memorial Day weekend can be a sad one for those remembering people who died for our country. But families who lost a loved one to war, Memorial Day really can be heart breaking.

And tonight, one family is telling us their story of their grief but also the pride they're feeling tonight for this man. I want you to take a good look at Army Captain Andrew Pearson. Here he is, he died in 2008 in Iraq from a bomb explosion. And he left behind a wife and four children who are great enough to join me tonight.

Jon Marie and the Pearson family, all in some kind of red matching t-shirts joining me now tonight. Guys, thanks for being with me. And Jon Marie, if you can just help me out, I don't know how many of your kids have ear pieces. If you can, just introduce your family to me. Give me names, ages, and tell me what's on the t-shirt.

JONMARIE PEARSON, WIFE OF FALLEN SOLDIER: We're all wearing tap t-shirts for our National Grief Camp, it's a program that we participate every year to help us with our grief and learning to move forward. The first one is Gabriel. She's 14. This is Christopher, he's 7. Daniel, 15, and Cheyenne, 12.

BALDWIN: Good looking family. Guys, nice to meet all of you all. JonMarie, if I can, let's begin with your husband. I want you to tell me about Captain Andrew Pearson.

Tell me, how do you honor him? I imagine, not just this weekend, but every day. PEARSON: My children and I share stories all the time. Just because he's no longer with us, he's still a huge part of us. He's a part of each of my children. I mean, even the little things we do, we have a barbecue on the anniversary of his death just to celebrate his life and his soldiers would come and share the stories with my children.

And we celebrate his birthday every year. You know, we have a birthday party even though he's not physically there. And we release balloons with messages. And I mean, every night at dinner we talk about him. He comes up somehow in the conversation.

BALDWIN: It sounds like his memory is very much still alive on the anniversary of his death, his birthday and every night at dinner. Gabriel, if you can hear me, I think you were, correct me if I'm wrong, 12, when your dad died. Tell me when you - what do you tell your friends about your dad?

GABRIELLE PEARSON, DAUGHTER OF FALLEN SOLDIER: Well, I tell them that he's my hero in my life story. He's the one who went out and fought for our country, like giving up or leaving behind even though he knew we'd all be all right.

BALDWIN: And JonMarie, do you think - what do you think about the country and how they appreciate your husband and also the thousands of others who has served bravely for us overseas?

PEARSON: I think, you know, there's so many programs that are like really focused on trying to help us remember our heroes and making sure - the hardest thing for us is we don't want their memory to die. And just America helping us make their - their stories continue and honoring them and, you know, and TAPS is a great way - program for us. It's taught us and I think it needs to teach America, you know, don't feel sorry for us. We have enough grief going on.

We need to - we need them to help us by, you know, asking what color were his eyes or what was his favorite thing to do or what was his favorite memory. I mean, it's just - we're trying to move forward and we just - I want America to understand that, you know? If you hear a story, don't be sad for us. Just ask to be happy and remember and help us be happy.

BALDWIN: People in America are listening. And I want to remind people, people who don't know what TAPS is. TAPS is an acronym for Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors, helping military families who are grieving. And Daniel, if I can end this interview, with you sir, 16 years of age, what's your favorite memory of your dad?

DANIEL PEARSON, SON OF FALLEN SOLDIER: Probably when him and I were going fishing. That's one of our favorite things just to go out and have a little fun, catch some fish.

BALDWIN: Catching fish. And Daniel, any interest in following in your dad's footsteps and joining the services?

BALDWIN: Well, actually I wanted to go and design cars, but I'm doing an ROTC program in school for leadership skills and stuff.

BALDWIN: Well, good luck to you, Daniel, Gabrielle, Cheyenne, Christopher, JonMarie. Thank you all so much. We thank your husband for his service to our country. Guys, thank you.

PEARSON: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I want to go back to the oil story. We're not staying too far away from the chance the oil could leak into the Gulf of Mexico, really we're hearing well into the summer. The clock is ticking on finding a quick fix that last.

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BALDWIN: Now in terms of a timeline, we're hearing that oil that's been leaking since that rig explosion back on April 20. It could continue leaking into the Gulf of Mexico, well into the summer. In fact the timeline they're saying somewhere perhaps August. That's when they hope to get those two relief wells drilled in there. But let's take a look at some of the water, some of that leak underneath the water.

BP is moving to its other backup plan. So if you're watching CNN this time yesterday, you learned that COO Doug Suttles saying that the top kill did not work. So that was scrapped. That was really last chance to stop the gushing leak. That failed like the rest of the plan. So we're hearing as far as tomorrow, possibly Tuesday is the next step.

What is the next step? Crews will start cutting off the damaged part of the LMRP, right? That's the lower marine riser package, which is actually the top of the failed BOP, the failed blow out preventer. Then, they will be lowering what you just saw, the animation that custom-made cap on top of it.

Now that is not a perfect seal here. And this is also the fall back option. Now, as I said, that top kill has failed. And even if it's a success, the flow may not completely stop until August. As I said, that's when those relief wells are supposed to be finished.

Now, today, BP's CEO, Tony Hayward said he is sorry for what is now the largest oil spill in U.S. history. Mr. Hayward said his company has done a good job of keeping the oil offshore. Crews have been trying to suck that oil out of all the precious marsh lands this weekend that's really been concerning a lot of the folks in the local parishes and of course, that means the wild life and the pelicans that you see in the pictures there.

In the meantime, many people who live on the coast are fed up with all of these setbacks. Carrying signs, some gather in protests today. In fact, New Orleans near Jackson Square. And we also heard from CEO Tony Hayward in terms of sicknesses. Some of these fishermen out there saying they're feeling sick, nauseous, headaches. We sent our own Elizabeth Cohen down there to try to talk to some of those fishermen and we're also hearing from the CEO Tony Hayward, saying hey, it may be food poisoning. Which one is it? We're going to talk to Elizabeth in the 10:00 hour Eastern here on CNN News.

Meantime, I want to pass things up to my colleague, Candy Crowley.