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"Conspiring to Kill, Maim and Kidnap"; Somalia's Terror Role; Fixing Oil Well One Mile Down; Atlanta Child Murders; Iconic Journalist Under Fire
Aired June 06, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: You know, lots of you hopefully are wrapping up an enjoyable lazy Sunday, but you might want to give special thanks on this day for thousands of Allied troops who fought for your freedom. Today is the 66th anniversary of D-Day.
Starting early in the morning on June 6, 1944, 160,000 allied forces landed on the beaches of Normandy to battle the Germans. Offshore and in the skies, more than 5,000 ships and 13,000 war planes supported the invasion. By day's end, allied forces had gained a priceless foothold on the French coast. The cost was high.
More than 9,000 allied forces dead or injured and many more would die in the months to come. But the invasion helped turn the tide of World War II and sparked the liberation of Europe from Hitler's stranglehold.
Hello, everyone. It is the top of the hour.
I'm Don Lemon.
It is a new and disturbing example of American citizens accused of joining forces with America's enemies.
Two New Jersey men are expected in federal court tomorrow, picked up last night at New York's JFK Airport. Prosecutors say the two were headed to Somalia to train for violent jihad.
Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is tracking the story for us in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Strife-torn Somalia was the intended destination for the two men from New Jersey according to U.S. officials who claim their mission was to wage violent jihad on behalf of al-Shabaab, an Islamist group affiliated with al Qaeda. Their hope, officials say, was to kill U.S. troops who might eventually be deployed there.
Mohamed Alessa, 20 of North Bergen and Carlos Almonte, 24 of Elmwood Park are charged with conspiring to kill, maim and kidnap people overseas but New York Police Commission Ray Kelly is among those expressing concern that they could have eventually re-entered the U.S. on their American passports. RAY KELLY, POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK: And it's not unlike other cases that we have seen recently where individuals who express an interest to do, quote, "jihad" go overseas and then are turned around, come back to attempt acts of violence here in the United States.
MESERVE: Search warrants were executed at the suspects' New Jersey homes. Alessa's landlord says he was the only child in a religious family.
HEMANT SHAH, ALMONTE'S LANDLORD: I was surprised that nothing -- he (INAUDIBLE) us yesterday that he was leaving. I had talked to him. I said, "Hi, I heard that you are going away." He said, "Yes, I'm going out." I said, "For how long?" He says, "Probably about six months."
MESERVE: According to court documents, in 2006, authorities were tipped off about the men. In 2007, the pair allegedly traveled to Jordan, but were rebuffed when they tried to enlist as Mujahedeen. Their jihadi aspirations eventually focused on Somalia.
In recordings made by an undercover New York police officer, Alessa allegedly discussed shootings and beheadings saying," we'll start doing killing here if I can't do it over there."
The court documents say that the men practiced combat skills with paintball guns and computer software but there are no allegations that they bought real guns or posed an imminent threat to the U.S.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Neither of the men are of Somali origin. A law enforcement official says Alessa's is a U.S. citizen. His parents are Palestinian and Jordanian. Almonte is a naturalized U.S. citizen born in the Dominican Republic. They're scheduled to appear in a Newark courtroom on Monday. They and could face life in prison.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
LEMON: All right Jeanne. Thanks. Let's dig even deeper into this. Is Somalia becoming the new training ground for terrorists intent on attacking the U.S.?
Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr is on this story.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Don, Somalia has been a long-standing safe haven for al Qaeda but now there are growing worries that fighters there may be turning their attention to the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): CNN has learned the U.S. now estimates as many as 200 foreign fighters may be in Somalia, fighters posing a possible threat to the U.S. after joining the Somali-based al Qaeda group known as al-Shabaab. President Obama's top counterterrorism adviser says Somalia is part of the overall U.S. threat calculations.
JOHN BRENNAN, WHITE HOUSE COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISOR: We will take the fight to al Qaeda and its extremist affiliates wherever they plot and train; in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and beyond.
STARR: Concern has risen steadily as Osama bin Laden called for fighters to go to Somalia.
PETER BERGEN, CNN Terrorism ANALYST: When you have anybody going to a jihadi war zone, hooking up with an al Qaeda affiliate and getting training, that is a problem because the guys can get training and attack American or other western targets overseas.
STARR: Iraqis, Pakistanis, Afghans and Saudis are among those at training camps across southern Somalia, a core group training others in bomb-making and small arms. Any U.S. military action to stop this al Qaeda movement brings bitter memories of October 1993, when 18 U.S. troops were killed in Mogadishu after two Black Hawk helicopters were shot down.
But the U.S. has approved plans to send commandos into Somalia, part of a stepped-up campaign already under way. Last September in southern Somalia, U.S. troops swept in by helicopter and killed senior al Qaeda operative Saleh Ali Saleh Nabhan wanted for his role in attacks against U.S. embassies. In 2007, AC-130 gunships fired against al Qaeda targets in southern Somalia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Although it's not clear how much of a threat the men arrested in New York really posed, U.S. officials remain convinced that fighters now in Somalia have plans far beyond the borders of that country -- Don.
LEMON: Barbara, thank you very much.
In the Gulf of Mexico there is little doubt that BP's broken well will spit crude oil all summer into the fall. That is because the funnel BP has placed over the gushing pipe cannot capture all of the oil.
Here is a live picture right now. Does that look any different to you than before? Can't tell
So far, BP says it has siphoned off about 440,000 gallons since Friday. When all the valves are closed and the cap is at maximum efficiency, it will only catch about 75 percent of the oil. That means about 200,000 gallops a day will continue to flow directly into the Gulf, about the same amount BP said was originally coming out.
It promises to be a long, hot, messy summer along the Gulf, with more devastation to wildlife and to beaches there. It is hard to look at those pictures. National incident commander, Admiral Thad Allen, was visibly frustrated as he spoke today with Candy Crowley on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": The President says he is furious about this. What is Admiral Allen about this?
ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN, NATIONAL INCIDENT COMMANDER: I think everybody's anguished about this. You know, I've been working on the water for 39 years. This is just completely distressing. And it's very frustrating because this spill has dissipated across southern Louisiana, clear to port St. Joe, Florida. It's like an insidious enemy that just keeps attacking in different places and it's going to be there for a while.
We have to redouble our effort, we have to be right on the game, and we have to support the local folks there. I've been dealing with the governors, mayors, parish presidents. You know, we all understand how frustrating this has been. We just have to stay on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We turn now to CNN's Ed Lavandera, who has been joining us down from New Orleans. Hey Ed, look with me, if you will, at this live picture as we have seen this well head just gushing, gushing down in the Gulf of Mexico.
You know, Thad Allen appears to be an honorable man. All the people out there appear to be working really hard.
But when we look at these pictures, we don't really see a difference. And people don't know really what they are looking at.
What gives here? What's the truth? What is going on?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think to really get a sense of whether or not this is working, I think we are still a couple of days away.
BP says on the first day of collecting oil, which was on Friday, they collected about 225,000 gallons.
On Saturday, they say they upped that and collected another 440,000 gallons of oil. Clearly, there is still a lot more coming out. They say it is a delicate period because they are slowly trying to siphon off as much as possible.
They say right now the concern is that water can get inside that cap. It freezes. It forms hydrates that essentially clogs up the system there which would send them back to square one and have them have to start all of this over.
So they say they're -- and this is a very delicate situation. We still have a lot more questions that need to be answered because Don, clearly, you're looking at -- for us that don't really understand the engineering that goes in behind of all this, but just from a visual standpoint, it is really difficult to see what kind of difference we have seen over the last 48 hours.
LEMON: Ed --
LAVANDERA: But they are pulling something out but just how much of it and how much of a difference it's making is what's not clear to us right now.
LEMON: Let's just be clear about this, more oil is gushing out than before they cut into this relief valve?
LAVANDERA: Right.
LEMON: Yes.
LAVANDERA: Good point. If you take us back to before this containment cap went on, remember, they had to cut off the riser. The riser is that pipe that comes out of the blowout preventer and makes its way to the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, that pipe was cut off. And by BP's count, they say that that was by their estimation released another 20 percent more oil gush into the Gulf of Mexico.
So you already are dealing with a much more intense and powerful stream of oil coming out. And that's why it's even -- perhaps even more difficult to get that containment cap sealed on there properly.
LEMON: All right. Ed, thank you.
We are digging for answers here on CNN. I know just from e- mailing and talking to you it is a sad thing that is going on down there and it's frustrating because it is all -- a lot of this is estimates. You can't really tell. No way to really measure it.
We can just see what is happening beneath the ocean but we can't measure it.
Ed Lavandera, great job. Thank you, sir. We really appreciate it.
You know, it sounds simple enough just to stop the leak. Trying to do that a mile beneath the Gulf surface is where it all gets pretty tricky that is what we are talking about here.
Also, veteran White House reporter Helen Thomas is about to find out if an apology is enough after making an anti-Semitic remark after a Jewish heritage celebration. We're going to tell you about that.
And don't just sit there. Make sure you become part of the conversation, become part of this show. Send me a message on Twitter, on Facebook. Hey, follow me on Twitter. We have great conversations there. You guys have been really tweeting a lot lately, I appreciate it.
Check out my blog, cnn.com/don. We want to hear from you. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Oil drilling has been around for a very long time. Much of the technology has been perfected for land and shallow water but drilling in deep water is a relatively new development. And as we have heard over and over and over in the past 48 hours and over, the difficulties now under the sea are a big reason that this disaster just really keeps going.
So Steve Wereley is an engineering professor at Purdue University. Steve, thank you for joining us.
So listen, this is my question, because I can't make heads or tails of it. People I have spoken to can't make heads or times of it. By cutting through this pipe, they said they allowed more oil to go into the Gulf. Now they're saying 6,000 gallons a day, maybe 10,000 gallons that they are capturing.
But how do we know? Is it better or worse? Is it a zero-sum game? How do we know?
STEVE WERELEY, PURDUE UNIVERSITY: That's a very good question and one that we are hoping to address in the next couple of days.
So I'm part of the flow rate technical group, which was a group recently created by Admiral Thad Allen to address the question of what exactly is the flow rate out of this pipe?
And you are right. We did make an attempt at answering that question and we issued a press release late the week before last that said this is 12,000 to 19,000 barrels per day.
Two comments about that; first that is a preliminary number and that is likely to change. Early this week, this coming week, we should have an update to that number.
LEMON: So really -- so you don't know at this point is that what you are saying?
WERELEY: That's correct.
LEMON: All right. You don't know if it is better or worse, if less is coming out or more, you just don't know?
WERELEY: That's correct.
LEMON: Ok. And your second point?
WERELEY: The flow rate technical group -- yes, that's right -- the flow rate technical group is concentrating, the numbers that have been reported in the media so far, you know. Via our press releases, those numbers are for the time period before this most recent operation of the LMRP cap.
LEMON: All right.
You said you had a second point. Was that your second point that you wanted --
WERELEY: Yes -- well, no, the second point is along the lines of what you were asking, which is this step of cutting off the riser pipe. This is like if you are at home watering your garden and you get a kink in the hose and you take your garden sheers and you go and you cut off the hose at the faucet a lot more water is going to shoot out of the faucet after you cut off the hose.
LEMON: Ok.
WERELEY: So the flow rate technical group will be assessing that new flow after riser was cut off on Thursday.
LEMON: Ok.
Listen, I want to ask you this and we're going to move on -- I'm going to move on to a different line of questioning. There are people I have heard reporting and critics who say, you know if there is one rickety rig or faulty valve or faulty pipe in the Gulf of Mexico, there are thousands all over the world. And this is just one in many.
Is that a concern that you have and the people who are working on this and is it a real possibility?
WERELEY: Well, I guess the thing that I could say to that point is that it seems that the government regulations on deep water drilling have not been tight enough, that the -- in particular, BP wasn't particularly prepared for this.
All of these solutions that they are coming up with, they are coming up with you know, basically in real time. And had they prepared for them ahead of time, some of these things could have been deployed much faster.
LEMON: And my last question is do you -- could this have been crushed? There were talks of nuclear -- blowing it up with a bomb, could it have been crushed or could it have been done in a different way rather than going down and cutting and digging and drilling?
WERELEY: That -- I'm not sure that anybody wants to see nuclear weapons set off in the Gulf of Mexico. You know there is always alternate solutions, I'm not sure that the best path has been chosen here, but the steps that BP has taken do make sense. It just would have been nice to have seen them executed it more quickly.
LEMON: Good answers.
Thank you, Steve Wereley, an engineering professor at Purdue University. We appreciate your candor and for coming on and speaking to us.
WERELEY: Thank you.
LEMON: All right.
Another incumbent senator in trouble in one race, reports of extramarital affairs in another and we will spotlight some of the big races in Tuesday's primaries.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Seven people are dead from severe storms and tornadoes that swept through the Midwest overnight. And we're just now getting video of the full extent of that damage.
This is Wood County, Ohio. Look at that. That's where a tornado tore a path of destruction, 100 yards wide and seven miles long. At least 50 homes were destroyed. Another 50 damaged.
Rescue officials are still searching for survivors there. Seven people were killed, including a 4-year-old child.
That same storm system is still moving through the mid Atlantic states and we want to go to our meteorologist right away, Jacqui Jeras. Jacqui, that video that's just coming in, amazing and of course, 7 dead.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It's just horrible. Yes, the news progressively throughout the day, just getting worse and worse. Of course, that happened in the middle of the night. The sun comes up and you get a better handle on the extent of the damage. It was very devastating.
The very aggressive storm system that's been making its way across the northeast throughout the day today and just now in the last ten minutes, all of our watches in the northeast and mid Atlantic have expired so that threat has diminished and moved on tonight
But a few other areas of high concern; Take a look at this Muncie, Indiana, right now you're under a tornado warning. Law enforcement reported a tornado there about 20 minutes ago.
Our CNN affiliates are working this story and we have word there is some minor building damage and some power lines down. We're trying to find out more information, but a dangerous situation.
This is Delaware County, Henry and Randolph Counties and this storm has just moved to the southeast of Muncie right now and moving at 30 miles per hour. That's a very isolated storm. We don't think we'll see a lot of action there tonight, by the way.
And we're also watching two possible tornadoes in Nebraska and Colorado. Sometimes even thought it's the yellow box and not the red one, Don, we will get a little bit of rotation. This will be our focus for severe weather tomorrow as well.
LEMON: All right Jacqui. Appreciate it. We'll see you in just a little bit here.
Time now to check your top stories here on CNN: stunning allegations of homegrown terrorism. Federal prosecutors say two New Jersey man planned to travel to Somalia for training to wage violent jihad, and that is a quote. The men were arrested yesterday at New York's JFK Airport. They are due in court tomorrow, charged with conspiring to kill, maim and kidnap people outside the U.S. Prosecutors say they also hoped to commit violent acts here in the U.S.
A few hundred protesters gathered in lower Manhattan afternoon, rallying against plans to build an Islamic mosque near Ground Zero. Families of 9/11 victims and politicians addressed the crowd. Protesters don't want the mosque and community center built just blocks from the World Trade Center since Islamic extremists flew the planes into the Twin Towers.
Bad weather on Washington's Mount Rainier is hampering the search for a missing climber. An avalanche broke loose yesterday and buried 11 people climbing to that summit. Guides managed to pull all but one to safety. Bad weather forced officials to call off the search yesterday and they say it might not be safe enough to resume until Monday.
Check out this fiery race car crash last night in Fort Worth, Texas. Indy car driver Simona De Silvestro's car burst into flames after the accident. Now watch as crews struggle to get her out of that burning car, I mean really just yanking her out. Look at that. Amazingly, she suffered only minor burns on her right hand and tonight, she is thankfully out of the hospital. Very lucky there.
A big week in politics straight ahead. And we could see another incumbent go down to defeat in one state. And a political soap opera come to an end in another state.
There are key party primaries Tuesday in South Carolina, Nevada and in California. And we are going to talk about California with our Jessica Yellin in just a moment.
But first, we are going to talk about Tuesday's Arkansas senate runoff with our senior political editor, Mr. Mark Preston.
Hello, Mark Preston. Looking good. Haven't seen you in a while with, back from vacation, I think you were gone for a little bit. How are you going?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Pretty good, Don. How are you?
LEMON: I'm doing very well. Thank you, sir. So incumbent Democrat Blanche Lincoln, in the fight of her life against a fellow Democrat, Bill Halter. So what is going on? How did Lincoln get into political trouble there?
PRESTON: Well, Don what we are seeing here is this classic fight within the Democratic Party. Blanche Lincoln is in a runoff right now on Tuesday with Lieutenant Governor Bill Halter. Bill Halter has been funded by and large the unions here in Washington, D.C., by the small union population in his own state and by moveon.org.
These are all liberal groups, Don, that don't think that Blanche Lincoln has really toed the line enough for liberal issues or for the Obama administration, namely, health care. They are very upset of her stand on health care and the fact that she wasn't always on board with the White House on that issue.
So Blanche Lincoln in a very tough fight for her life; we'll see what happens on Tuesday night in Arkansas, Don.
LEMON: Yes. I think I read somewhere, Mark, am I correct, does she have a big photo, is it Bill Clinton or someone that joined her with a photo to help her campaign?
PRESTON: Bill Clinton was down in Arkansas, Don, campaigning on his behalf. And Bill Clinton appears in this television ad that is running as we speak in Arkansas.
What's interesting is that the lieutenant governor, Bill Halter who is running against her, Don, served in the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton has decided to side with Blanche Lincoln in this one with.
LEMON: So will Lincoln be the latest incumbent to fall here?
PRESTON: If she loses on Tuesday night, Don this will be the fifth incumbent to lose just this year alone. The third senator, we saw Arlen Specter and Bob Bennett both lose recently. We've also seen Alan Monahan lose, who was a Congressman from West Virginia and we also saw Parker Griffith, the Congressman from Alabama lose just last week.
LEMON: More politics to talk with Mark Preston coming up tonight at 10. Mark, we will see you then, ok?
PRESTON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: You know, money is becoming the big focus of Tuesday's primary in California and Jessica Yellin has that story coming up.
But first, a string of children being murdered in one city had an entire country living in fear for two years.
Now, 30 years later, the man convicted of the Atlanta child murders tells CNN it is not a question of if he will get out of prison, just when. Our Soledad O'Brien is coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You know, it's hard to believe that it has been 30 years. I remember this and I was frightened to death by it. This Thursday CNN will run a landmark documentary. It's called the "ATLANTA CHILD MURDERS".
The case terrorized Atlanta in the early '80s. Children were disappearing, more than six bodies washed up in rivers around the city. Police and the FBI began all-night stakeouts at the bridges. Then, on the last night, a recruit heard a splash, and Wayne Williams was stopped nearby. CNN's Soledad O'Brien tells the story in this excerpt. As a viewer note, we want to tell you there are some disturbing images in this. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By May 1981, the police and FBI were hiding in the brush, beside and below the river bridges. This was to be the last night, almost the last hour.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard the -- heard the splash.
O'BRIEN: Bob Campbell, a police recruit, jumped to his feet, down beside the Chattahoochee river.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was really startled. It sounded like a body on the water.
O'BRIEN: He looked up at the bridge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I saw brake lights of a car come on. I saw red lights. The car started slowly moving away from me across the bridge.
O'BRIEN: Then, a policeman in a chase car hidden on the other side came on the radio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just said the car is pulling in the parking lot here, turning around in front of me and started coming back across the bridge, back in my direction.
O'BRIEN: This is that white station wagon. Police followed it and stop it nearby. FBI agent Mike Macomis rushed to the scene. The driver was standing by the highway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was talking with the officers, saw a black male, he had on a baseball hat. Had on glasses.
O'BRIEN: The young man was Wayne Williams, about to turn 23. A self-amounted music talent scout who slept days and roamed the city night. Macomis invited Williams to his car.
He got in the car and said do you know why we are here? And he immediately said yes that is about the missing children and that kind of stunned me. And I said "Why do you know that?" And he goes, "Well, I don't think that the various news agencies are covering it adequately. Do you?"
O'BRIEN (on camera): You said, "I know this is about those boys, isn't it?"
WAYNE WILLIAMS: Correct. Mm-hmm. That is what I said.
O'BRIEN: Pretty damning statement, don't you think?
WILLIAMS: No, I mean, the perception in Atlanta was, at the time, kids were miss and I think it -- if I'm not mistaken, the perception was a lot of young males were missing. That's what I asked him this is about those kids or boys or something like that, isn't it?
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Williams agreed to let Macomis search his station wagon. On the floor, in the front of the back seat, he saw --
MACOMIS: There was a nylon cord. The best that I could describe the nylon cord was a ski rope type, the woven type. And it was my guess about 24 inches long.
WILLIAMS: No.
O'BRIEN: Williams denies there was any such cord.
WILLIAMS: Because if that rope had been in the station wagon that night, I'm sure they would have taken it.
MACOMIS: The fact that I didn't confiscate it doesn't make it go away. It was there.
O'BRIEN: The nylon cord would never be seen again.
MACOMIS: Could have been the murder weapon, as far as I know.
O'BRIEN: Two days later, only a mile downstream from that bridge, another body. After two years, one suspect now. Wayne Williams.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And after you watch this on Thursday, you can play juror yourself. CNN wants you to voice what verdict would you give to Wayne Williams. To explain that and much, much more, Soledad O'Brien joins me now. So Soledad, after all these years why doubts here about Wayne Williams?
O'BRIEN: Wayne Williams today is in his 50s and he is serving two consecutive life terms but many people don't realize that even though he was convicted as the Atlanta child murderer, he was actually convicted of the murder of two adults and there are some parents of the children who never -- he was never held to trial for those murders but they were able to clear 23 of the 29 other cases involving children.
So, there are some parents of those children, the victims, who say, well, actually, my child's case was never brought to trial. I don't necessarily believe that Wayne Williams was the killer. It was never tried. A lot of people don't realize that he was convicted of two murders and I think there are some people who feel that his -- he is not necessarily guilty of the crimes.
LEMON: Yes. As you were saying, a lot -- some of the parents, I shouldn't say a lot, but some of the parents don't believe, that some people don't believe he could have killed so many people. So here is my question to you, because I saw you sitting there -- O'BRIEN: I mean, keep in mind, I will stop it there -- keep it in mind, Wayne Williams, even the guys dealing with the fiber evidence said to me, when he pulled up to see the house of the man he knew would be eventually named the suspect, he said, "I couldn't believe it, it was this middle class house."
LEMON: Right.
O'BRIEN: And how could you possibly, you know, how could it be someone who is living at home with his parents? It seemed like logistically, it couldn't be.
LEMON: Yes. Two upstanding professional teachers, they said, this is not possible. My question as I was sitting there watching, we talked about this I remember the child murders, and I'm sure you do as well, we are around the same age and it frightened me, sitting there in the room with him, what was that like?
O'BRIEN: Yes, interesting. You know, he -- one thing that was very interesting for me to see was his size. Because, of course, that was relevant in the trial. And it was relevant to -- could a guy his size be able to do a couple of things. One with, you know, push a body, throw a body, over into the river? Could someone that size be able to grab somebody across the chest or across the neck and kill them with a choke hold? These were all things being alleged.
So I wanted to kind of see what does he look like? What is his size like? He is small. He is probably about 5'7'. And you know, he is wiry. He has lost some weight that he had during his trial. Very interesting, and I won't give it away, but we had a long conversation about whether or not he was trained in the choke hold. Kind of went back and forth on that, because he -- he claims he has claimed in some ways that he was, which, of course, would change his ability to be able to kill someone.
LEMON: I can go on and on and talk to you for probably like two hours about this but we have got to tell our viewers --
O'BRIEN: It is crazy.
LEMON: We got to go to our viewers, they have a chance to weigh in on this, Soledad. When I introduced you, I said they have a chance to give a verdict. So how do they do that?
O'BRIEN: Yes. You said a similar thing, which was the way I felt. I remember the story so well and so many people do, for those of us in our 40s. It is one of those cases that you -- defines your childhood, as it did in Atlanta when it absolutely terrified people.
I remember CNN had just come on the air when this story broke. This was a very big story for CNN, happening right in CNN's backyard. So we have asked folks to go online at cnn.com to be able to weigh in on whether you think Wayne Williams is guilty? Is he innocent or the case not proven? There are people who believed that the evidence that was brought against him, overwhelming fiber evidence as it was in fact fiber evidence and there was never a connection, you know, to Wayne Williams and the children who were murdered.
So we're interested in having people, when they watch our documentary, to have opportunities in that documentary to vote and to weigh in on how you feel about it all these years later.
LEMON: Yes, this is one that I'm definitely looking forward to, Soledad. Thank you. You gave our 40s secret away with -- anyway.
O'BRIEN: I meant 25. 25, Don, for you.
LEMON: Thank you. I will be watching. Thanks -- I want to say thanks again to Soledad and this documentary, CNN's documentary, "THE ATLANTA CHILD MURDERS" airs Thursday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Remember, as we have been saying you can vote on whether you think Wayne Williams is guilty or not. Go to cnn.com/AtlantaChildMurders.
It takes more than experience to win an election in California, it takes money. Really it takes big money. And the GOP primary for governor is shattering all spending records, all spending records. We will have a live report from Los Angeles coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Let's talk about the intriguing political race going on in California. It's crazy. The Republican battle for governor is big in every way, big names, big personalities and very big money. Very big money. Our national political correspondent, Jessica Yellin, is in Los Angeles tonight. Jessica, this race has shattered the primary spending record and most of it is coming from the candidates' pockets, right? I don't get why so much money?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: These people want to be elected and they are willing to spend their own hard-earned cash to do it. Both of the leading candidates in the Republican primary for governor here, Meg Whitman, who once was CEO of Ebay and Steve Poizner, who ran a dot com technology business, made millions in the dot com technology world.
Meg Whitman has spent 70, $70 million of her own money on this primary campaign. Steve Poizner, 25 million. Don, you cannot be in this state and avoid their ads, even if you DVR and fast forward through your Tivo.
LEMON: You got it.
YELLIN: It is nonstop. Nonstop. And I tell you, one of the big issues, the only way, Meg Whitman spent so much has taken off. She's 20 points up plus. The way that her opponent has tried to catch her is saying she is not conservative enough on immigration and they are fighting over the Arizona law. Meg Whitman says she is against it. Steve Poizner says well then she is no good. Here is the back and forth.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEVE POIZNER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: She opposes the Arizona, the Arizona law. I support it. How on earth can you be a conservative? How on earth can you be serious about stopping illegal immigration, and be opposed to the Arizona law like Meg Whitman is?
MEG WHITMAN (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I completely understand what happened in Arizona and I feel tremendous empathy for the people of Arizona. They rose up, I think, against the abject failure of the federal government to solve the problems in Arizona. My plan in California I think is better suited for California.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Jessica, you made a good point when you're talking about the TV ads. Because I spent about two weeks out there recently, and besides Lindsey Lohan being the lead on the news, I was surprised at how many ads --
YELLIN: Welcome to L.A..
LEMON: Over and over again. I said how much money these people spending. And sure enough I opened the "L.A. Times" and a big story about how much money they are spending.
Can we talk now about the GOP Senate primary, another big race, the former Hewlett-Packard chief, Carly Fiorina, she has stolen the spotlight. What are her chances?
YELLIN: She is poised to win the Senate primary here in California but what's interesting is she is losing in polls against Barbara Boxer. Now, Republicans think Barbara boxer is quite vulnerable this year and Carly Fiorina's opponent, her chief opponent in this race is showing signs that he could beat her. The polls show he is moderate. And Californians tend to favor more moderate candidates but despite that the more moderate Republican is not poised to win here.
Carly Fiorina is and so, there's going to -- probably going to be this very interesting dynamic out here where you have a lot of women with running and there are going to be some very tough fights. And two of these women, Carly Fiorina and Meg Whitman, are multi- millionaires, Whitman a billionaire, self-funding.
So, the ladies have really gotten into this political game at this moment and it's going to be a fierce fight on that side, too. Barbara Boxer already out here campaigning as often as she can, Don.
LEMON: Oh, boy. Here we go. We will be watching. I'll be out there for a couple of days, maybe I will see you. I'm supposed to head out there. But we'll talk.
YELLIN: I would like it.
LEMON: This next story is right up your bailiwick too. This one is really gaining traction. It started in Washington and now it's going across the country, Jessica. Rarely, you know, one to issue retractions, we're talking about the veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas. She is doing just that after making an anti-semitic comment, and it's not only that she told Jews to go home. It is where she defined home for Jews.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This is a story that everyone is talking about. She is the longest serving member of the White House Press Corps. Now Helen Thomas is making headlines herself and they are not favorable. Thomas has covered every president since 1960, from Kennedy to Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton and now President Barack Obama. The 89-year-old journalist is under fire tonight for these comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any comments on Israel? (inaudible)
HELEN THOMAS, HEARST NEWSPAPERS COLUMNIST: Tell them to get the hell out of Palestine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any better comments?
THOMAS: Remember, these people are occupied and it is their land, not Germany, not Poland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So where should they go? What should they to?
THOMAS: They go home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is home?
THOMAS: Poland, Germany.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you think Jews should go back to Poland and Germany?
THOMAS: And America and everywhere else.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Listen, critics are saying that Thomas, whose parents were Lebanese, should lose her job as a columnist for the Hearst News Corporation, and that is a charge Ari Fleischer is making. Ari Fleischer is going to join me in one second.
Mr. Fleischer, before I introduce you, I want to tell you that we got some developing news in here when it comes to Helen Thomas. CNN is just learning this, that Thomas was dropped by her agent today, Nine Speakers Inc. and that Craig Crawford, who had co-authored her book, called "Listen Up, Mr. President" has said they'll no longer work with Thomas. So her agent and also the co-author of her book no longer work with her. So Mr. Fleischer, the White House press secretary under President George W. Bush joins me now. Helen Thomas, she's broken down many barriers for women. Should that count for something? She has a life long achievement for women and then journalism. Should that count --
ARI FLEISCHER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it has counted for a lot and that's one of the reasons that Helen has the honor of being the only columnist to have a seat in the White House briefing room and it's a front row seat. That is by virtue of what she has accomplished in her career.
But now, very sadly, she has done something tragic here toward the end of her career. She's crossed all lines, all boundaries and has said something that's horrific. Can you imagine the uproar that would be if somebody said that all blacks need to leave America and go home to Africa? They would have already lost their jobs. And I had nothing but respect for Helen. We always ideologically disagreed but I liked her.
LEMON: Yes, that's my next point. I know that people disagree ideologically with you can still be friends or still be co-workers. Have you reached out to her at all? Have you tried to talk to her about why she said this?
FLEISCHER: No, I haven't tried to directly get in touch with her. And I always admired the fact that she was in her 80s when I was the press secretary and came to work every day. But this is so different. This is in a unique category. And if people can say this and just get a basic pass at it and put out a statement later as she did calling for tolerance.
While she herself engaged in one of the most intolerant statements anybody could ever made, people should not sit by silently. Hearst, should not continue to employ her. Even the signal that would be sent if they gave her a two-week suspension would be very powerful about telling people what is right and what is wrong. And how far people should go to express their political views. It's abhorrent to say that any ethnic group, racial group of religious group should have to leave and go home to where they came from. It's a terrible thing to say.
LEMON: You guys really used to go at it. You brought that up. Let's take a look at 2001 and then you and I will talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FLEISCHER: As soon as we have anything to announce, if we do, we'll let you know.
THOMAS: That's not an answer. This has been a very one-sided dialogue. And not talking to any president -- not talking to any Palestinian leader face to face and we want to know why?
FLEISCHER: Helen, the president has met with many -- THOMAS: There's two sides to this conflict, you know.
FLEISCHER: t he president has met with many Arab leaders who have come here and met with him in the Oval Office. Secretary Powell, as you know, will be meeting with the Palestinian authority tonight, tomorrow and the next several days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You have to appreciate her tenacity as a journalist to do something like that. But did you sense any bias when you worked together with her?
FLEISCHER: Oh, of course. That bias is fine. She's a columnist. She's entitled to her bias. That's what columnist do. And Helen is very pro-Palestinian, pro-Yasser Arafat. That was her point of view and I never minded the ideological clashes that Helen and I would get into. I wrote about it actually very fondly in my book.
But this is a category unto itself. This is a type of discrimination. It's a call for religious cleansing that all Jews need to get out of Israel, to go home where they came from? Nobody would accept this if it was said about other groups or religious groups.
LEMON: And so Ari --
FLEISCHER: And we should not accept it from Helen Thomas.
LEMON: I want to say that she did apologize. And here's what she says. She says "I deeply regret my comments I made last week regarding the Israelis and the Palestinians. They do not reflect my heartfelt belief that peace will come to the Middle East only when the parties realize mutual respect and tolerance, may that day come soon."
Apparently, you're not satisfied with that and apparently her agent and the co-author of her book are not satisfied as well with that.
FLEISCHER: No, and I think it tells you that when a group that's in the business of making money, a speaking agency says that from a moral point of view, they no longer want to represent her. That's a powerful statement about right and wrong and I salute them for doing that and saying that. But I think that apology is too little, too late.
How can somebody who expresses such hatred in their heart right away call for tolerance and acceptance? That's hypocritical.
(CROSSTALK)
FLEISCHER: That's what you do after you get caught and you want to get out of being caught.
LEMON: Are you concerned about any, I don't know, alienation from people who may not agree with you on this issue?
FLEISCHER: Listen, I already got hate mail sent to me that's anti-Jewish. I'm Jewish and that's one of the reason I take offense to what she said. I have relatives who live in Israel. She's telling my relatives to get out. But it goes beyond that. I'm an American. And as Americans we all need to stand together to say to people who practice hate.
Helen's words were hateful. That this is not going to be accepted. That's why it's so important that hear from Hearst. What would Hearst do? Are they going to stand by this simple apology? Or will they actually take action? As we all know, would be done if it was said about any other (inaudible).
LEMON: Ari Fleischer, we have to say we did reach out to her several times. We know we got the statement but we reached out to her to come on and explain herself as well and she -- we couldn't get in touch with her or she didn't return our phone calls, I should say. Ari Fleischer, much appreciated. Thank you, sir.
FLEISCHER: Thank you.
LEMON: Coming up here on CNN, bigger perks for getting bumped off your flight and there's more in it for passengers. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. On Sundays, we always want to catch you up on some of the news that you may have missed this week.
First one, McDonald's recalling 12 million "Shrek" glasses, drinking glasses. Federal regulators say paint on the glasses contain a toxic metal that can cause bone and kidney problems.
The fast-food giant is urging people to stop using the glasses immediately and says it will post instructions about refunds on its web site next week. The glasses were being sold for $2 as part of a movie promotional campaign.
With airlines cutting back on flights, there may finally be something in it for you. Passenger rights groups have pushed the Transportation Department to give more compensation if you get bumped from oversold flights.
A new proposal expected to go into effect in the fall would raise the minimum pay-out from $800 to $1,300. It also would give passengers 24 hours to cancel reservations without penalty and refund baggage fees if luggage isn't delivered on time.
And a long-time fixture among American automobiles is heading for the car museum? Ford is giving up on Mercury. The 72-year-old brand will be phased out because of decades of declining sales. Ford instead will focus on beefing up its luxury brand, Lincoln continental.
Hello, everyone. Right over here. All the people on the CNN Tour. They're waving at me. There's about 50 people out there. Anyway, we thank you for joining us. We hope you enjoyed the show. See you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
In the meantime, I'm Don Lemon. "TOXIC CHILDHOOD," a Dr. Sanjay Gupta special report. It starts right now.
