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Gates & Mullen on Afghanistan; General Petraeus Goes to War; Forgotten Apple Founder; Wimbledon Match Marathon; The Man Who Hunted Osama; Donovan Breaks Down World Cup for U.S.
Aired June 24, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: What in the world is going on elementary school?
All right. Tony, appreciate you, buddy. Thanks so much.
Hello, I'm T.J. Holmes, sitting in for my friend, Ali Velshi today. We have, just like we did yesterday, a very busy and live couple of hours here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
We are standing by to hear from the top military men today -- the day after the top military man in Afghanistan resigned. You're looking there -- we're expecting a Pentagon briefing. This is going to be from the chairman of the joint chiefs, Admiral Mullen, and also the defense secretary, Robert Gates.
Surely, they will likely get some questions about the dismissal of Stanley McChrystal -- that was just yesterday and how they're going to go forward and reassure people that the war in Afghanistan is go to go forward without any missteps or without missing a beat, I should say, after the top man in Afghanistan did step aside yesterday.
Also, we're standing by to hear remarks from the man who is going to replace General McChrystal -- that is David Petraeus, the head of Central Command, now taking on the role in Afghanistan that McChrystal is leading. We're expecting some remarks from him.
So, standing by from both of those -- at any moment, when they happen, we will certainly, if we're not able to bring it to you live, monitor it and tell you what comes out of it. But we do expect to be able bring this to you at least live.
Also, we want to let you know we're expecting comments, a press conference from the president, President Obama, sometime in the next hour. When that happens, live at the White House, we'll take you there as well.
But let me start now with this big day, and we're about to hear from all of these military men, the day after now, the shakeup in Afghanistan. Our Dana Bash has been looking at things on Capitol Hill for us. We hope to hear from her here shortly.
But let me start with our Barbara Star who is at the Pentagon for us right now. Barbara, of course, has been keeping an eye and watching all of these developments unfold over the past, really, 48 hours or so and still looking -- well, Barbara, I'll have you stand by because I'm looking at this picture and I do see the defense secretary and also the chairman of the joint chiefs taking their spots behind the microphone.
Let's go ahead and listen in for a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: -- some opening comments about the change of command in Afghanistan.
First, I fully support President Obama's decision to accept General McChrystal's resignation as commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan. Like the president, I deeply regret the circumstances that made this decision necessary. General McChrystal is one of the finest officers and warriors of his generation, who has an extraordinary record in leading the fight against some of this country's most lethal enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was this and -- these and other qualities that led me to recommend him for the ISAF command last year.
But like the president, I believe the poor judgment exercised by General McChrystal with regard to the "Rolling Stone" profile has made his continued service in that post and as a member of the national security team, untenable. The statements and attitudes reported in the news media are unacceptable under our form of government and are inconsistent with the high standards expected of military leaders.
As I said Tuesday, our troops and coalition partners are making extraordinary sacrifices in the fight against al Qaeda and its extremist allies. Our singular focus must be on it succeeding in this mission without distraction or division. I'm confident we will be able to achieve this goal in Afghanistan under the command of General David Petraeus, who the president is nominating to become the new ISAF commander.
As I've said before, General Petraeus has already established himself as one of the great battle captains in American military history. His judgment, intellect and proven record of success as a theater commander in Iraq make him the right choice to lead the military coalition in Afghanistan.
This mission is, of course, an international effort. We continue to value the contributions and views of our NATO allies and partners, and they support the appointment of General Petraeus.
No one, be they adversaries or friends or especially our troops, should misinterpret these personnel changes as a slackening of this government's commitment to the mission in Afghanistan. We remain committed to that mission and to the comprehensive civil military strategy ordered by the president to achieve our goals there. My primary concern over the past few days has been to minimize the impact of these developments on the conduct of the war in Afghanistan. The president's decisions fully and satisfactorily address that concern. This is the best possible outcome to an awful situation. I would close on a personal note. General McChrystal and many of his immediate staff have served and protected this country in combat with great courage, valor, skill and devotion for many years. Their outstanding record of service remains intact for posterity and is deserving of our lasting recognition and profound gratitude.
Finally, General Petraeus' willingness with virtually no advance notice to accept this new challenge is testimony yet again to his extraordinary patriotism and character. It would have been easy to remain a Central Command commander and to rest on his well-deserved record of success in Iraq. And yet, when the commander-in-chief asked, he once again saluted and accepted this new challenge.
Three years ago, General Petraeus described our effort in Iraq as hard, but not impossible. This also describes the challenge facing us in Afghanistan. And I am personally deeply grateful to him for agreeing to return to the battlefield -- General.
ADMIRAL MIKE MULLEN, CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS: Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I, too, fully support the president's decisions yesterday -- both to accept General McChrystal's resignation and to nominate General Petraeus as the next commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan.
General McChrystal is a friend. He's a fine soldier and a good man, and he has served this country nobly and with great distinction for more than three decades, much of that last decade at war. He led men in places the rest of us could not follow and he fought men in ways the rest of us could not fathom. I was proud one year ago to support him for the Afghanistan command. And I think it's worth noting his strong leadership and the foundation he has laid for future success there.
But I cannot excuse his lack of judgment with respect to the "Rolling Stone" article, or a command climate he evidently permitted that was at best disrespectful of civilian authorities.
We do not have that luxury, those of us in uniform. We do not have the right nor should we ever assume the prerogative to cast doubt upon the ability or mock the motives of our civilian leaders, elected or appointed. We are and must remain a neutral instrument of the state, accountable to and respectful of those leaders.
No matter which party holds sway or which person holds a given office, I think it is vital for us to remember that if we lose our trust and confidence for any reason, it's time to go. The job we were called upon to do for the nation is too important. The lives we are sworn to protect, too precious to permit any doubt or uncertainty in that regard.
General McChrystal did the right thing by offering to resign.
I think it is also critically important for us to remember the mission yet before us. There is still a war to be won. As the secretary indicated, our focus must be on succeeding in this mission, especially as we complete the force build-up in Afghanistan and continue our efforts in Kandahar.
Indeed, I travel tonight to Afghanistan and then on to Pakistan. I will meet with military and civilian leaders in both countries and spend a little time with our troops.
My message will be clear: nothing changes about our strategy, nothing changes about the mission and nothing changes about the resources we are dedicating or the commitment we are making to defeat al Qaeda and its extremist allies in the region.
We cannot lose the momentum we have together with our partners, allies and friends, worked so hard to achieve.
I look forward to working with General Petraeus, a man already well-heeled in leading this war, as he gets through the nomination process and prepares to lead it now from Kabul.
Thank you.
REPORTER: Question for both of you, please. Each of you has responsibility for the tone and conduct of civilian military relations and General McChrystal was your hand-picked choice to run the war. Is what happened here in any way a failure of management and oversight on your parts?
GATES: Well, I don't feel so. First of all, I would say that in the 3 1/2 years that I've been in this position, I have not felt any tension or issues with respect to my relationship with our uniformed leaders or people in the ranks.
This was the first time that I think in this kind of way we had seen this kind of problem. There were concerns about General McChrystal's comments in a Q&A session in London last fall. That was discussed with him at the time. So I think that, from my standpoint, this is an anomaly. Not a systemic problem.
MULLEN: I recommended -- I strongly recommended General McChrystal to the secretary of defense and the president to assume this job. And so, certainly, from my vantage point, I feel some responsibility here. And that said, General McChrystal has been given guidance from here, from CENTCOM, and certainly, from the president, that's been very clear and I have an expectation that a commander, certainly someone with four stars and this kind of responsibility follow that guidance.
As I said in my statement and I think as has been evident in the last few days, he really committed a significant error in judgment -- and the president rightfully so relieved him for that. I am not just now, but part of what I have been focused on since I've been the chairman is to make sure that there is no question about the neutrality of the military, the apolitical aspect of the military and the need to keep that in mind in absolutely everything we do.
He is a friend. He is an extraordinary officer. He made a severe mistake. And I think the actions that were taken were appropriate. REPORTER: Was McChrystal able to explain to either of you what he was thinking when he did this? What was his purpose in allowing the reporter that access and making those kinds of comments in front of him?
GATES: Well, we can both address that, but I think we have the same answer. And that is, he really, in my meeting with him, didn't try to explain it. He just acknowledged that he had made a terrible decision.
REPORTER: Can you talk about at all, what you think the breakdown was? Can you explain why a four-star general would make comments like that? And what happens, you both know him so well, that people keep asking, what was he thinking?
MULLEN: Well, I -- I mean, I would limit my comments to what the secretary said. I've certainly spoken with General McChrystal many times since that article hit the street. But the -- it really is in the category of someone who knows he made a grave mistake.
There's nobody that feels worse and understands the gravity and the responsibility and the accountability better than Stan McChrystal. So, in terms of the details of it and even to David's question, it isn't something that I've -- I really went through with him in detail.
He knew it was done. We needed to hold him, president held him accountable, and we need to move on. The most important part of this whole issue is the mission.
HOLMES: We're listening in. We've been listening in to as you see there, Admiral Mike Mullen, who's head -- chairman of the joint chiefs and also the defense secretary, Robert Gates -- both coming out at the press conference at the Pentagon today, initially making comments addressing what happened yesterday with Stanley McChrystal, the man who was head of the effort in Afghanistan, resigning yesterday over the explosive "Rolling Stone" article.
Both of the men say, yes, in fact, error of judgment. But they both seem to go out of their way and some way to talk about just how good of a man he is and how great of a character he has. And also just what kind of an outstanding and exemplary military career he has had over the years. Both of them fielded a few questions, the first three in the press conference, and understandably so from reporters were about Stanley McChrystal, of course.
But the first question asked was, hey, this was your guy, you handpicked him, do you all bear some responsibility for allowing something like this to go on? Gates' simple answer was no. But Mullen, on the other hand, said he did feel like he was responsible in some ways.
We'll continue to monitor that. If any other news jumps out, we will certainly let you know about it.
Let me bring in our Dana Bash who is on Capitol Hill for us. Dana, I know you were able to catch up with David Petraeus today, who is going to be taking over for General McChrystal in Afghanistan. But -- I don't know if you were able to hear this press conference, but they seem to go out of their way to talk about how good of a man McChrystal is. And it sounds so personal in some ways that their comrade, this buddy of theirs in a lot of ways, has taken this fall.
Did you get that sense from Petraeus as well, that quite frankly, a lot of these guys are taking it hard and they hate to see him fall?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I absolutely did.
What happened was as General Petraeus was coming into the Capitol where I was to have a round of meetings with senators who will vote on his confirmation. And I literally bumped into him and talked to him as he came in, and I just asked generally how he feels about his new assignment.
And so, here, I'm going to play the audio of our conversation. He mentioned General McChrystal without me asking. Listen to what happened.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Well, it's a privilege to serve. It's obviously a hugely important mission. It's very sad that I have to assume it in this manner. We obviously all have enormous respect and gratitude to General McChrystal for all that he did. He played a key role in helping get the inputs right in Afghanistan as I described on Capitol Hill the second day I testified.
BASH: Do you see yourself doing anything to change the 2011 deadline to begin troop withdrawal?
PETRAEUS: No, as I said, I support the president's policy and I would also provide my best professional military advice as we conduct assessments.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BASH: Now, as I mentioned, the reason we have audio there is because we were fortunately in the capitol where cameras are prohibited.
But that last part there, T.J., was noteworthy because as soon as this whole episode began, the debate began here on Capitol Hill between Democrats and Republicans about -- and it brought concerns about the policy to the forefront. And one of the things that we are hearing from Republicans in particular, Republicans like the ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, John McCain, is that the policy should be changed to get rid of that deadline to begin troop withdrawal on July 2011. And you heard General Petraeus say there, no, I asked if he's going to change that and his answer was no, he believes that -- he agrees with the president's policy.
So, could there be wiggle room there? You bet. But as of now, he's saying he's sticking with the policy.
Now, I should tell you that General Petraeus went on to meet with several other members of the armed services committee and he's now gone over to the House side to meet with House members. He didn't want to talk to us much after that because he does have a confirmation hearing and we know that that is going to be on Tuesday.
Will this be a tough confirmation hearing? Not likely. I think that the two things that people agreed on, it's very rare, Republicans and Democrats, as soon as this happened was: number one, the president did the right thing in firing General McChrystal, and in the next breath, he did absolutely the right thing in picking General David Petraeus to fill his role -- T.J.
HOLMES: Yes, like you said, a rare moment of agreement up there on Capitol Hill. Dana Bash for us -- thank you so much for bringing that to us.
We're not going to go far away from the story. Of course, again, we continue to monitor that press conference going on at the Pentagon now. Any news jumps out of there, we certainly pass it along to you.
Also, we're standing by to hear from the president, expecting live comments -- and expecting the president to take a few questions at an event at the White House coming up in just a bit, expecting at this hour. We'll certainly bring that to you live when it happens as well.
Meanwhile, the Gulf disaster there taking jobs, taking money, taking all kinds of things away from people. Now, it's taking much more. The details -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM.
Day 66 here we are on this Gulf oil disaster and we have news coming out today -- major news having to do with the legal wrangling over this whole Gulf oil disaster.
You may have known the president put in a moratorium. He wanted to ban Gulf drilling for a while off the coast there. Well, some people went to court and sued, said, that's not fair, you're going to take away our livelihood, we need to keep this up, it's important for jobs.
A judge ruled in that group's favor and said the ban on drilling would have to be lifted. Well, the president and his team went back to court and ask the judge to stay his decision until they could appeal. The judge today said no, in fact, so his ruling will stand and this judge's ruling that he lifts the ban after the president put in place on drilling offshore.
That news is out of the Gulf today. Also the news today, the cap is back on. We told you about this yesterday and we saw the pictures yesterday as well. The cap, there was a technical problem -- the cap that had been put on top of the well that was helping to collect and siphon up some of the oil had to be removed for a short time yesterday, for about 10 hours, I should say, so oil was going into the Gulf unabated.
Well, that cap is back on and they're starting to capture oil once again and the numbers we are getting is that yesterday, they captured 16,830 barrels of oil. That's not bad. Not as good as the day before. That saw some 27,000 plus barrels collected. But still the 16,000 is more than they were capturing before. So, still a pretty good day by some accounts.
To the date now, to this date, 364,000 barrels altogether have been captured.
Also, we've been itching for any kind of good news, we'll take anything out of the Gulf. Well, some good news, look at this here, yes, we had a record day and that 63 rehabilitated birds actually were released back out in Texas. These, of course, some of these birds had oil all over them, have been taken in. People have been literally working around the clock, scrubbing and getting these birds clean and then rehabilitating them and releasing them. Sixty-three were able to be released.
One other bit of good news here, some of the federal Gulf waters have been reopened to fishing. They have been closing these really it seems like every day -- every week, there's some kind ever a new update. They've been closing more and more. But they reopened some 8,000 square miles, reopened. That's good news, not a whole lot in the grand scheme, but that's something.
So, now, 32 percent of the federal Gulf waters have been closed to fishing. So, still, that's better than the 36 percent it was before.
Another story we need to tell you about, a sad story. We want to tell you about somebody, a man by the name of Allen Rookie Kruse is his name, a 55-year-old man, a charter boat fisherman, a charter boat fishing captain. He's been doing this for some 20 years and two weeks ago, his fishing grounds off the coast of Alabama were closed due, of course, to the oil disaster.
He then took a job, like so many other folks are doing right now, with BP to help with the oil clean-up. On Wednesday morning, according to "The Washington Post," Cruz, he drove to his boat like he always does, his deck hands were preparing for the day's work and Cruz apparently shot himself in the wheelhouse of his boat, didn't leave a note. So there's no real way to know exactly what was on his mind and what would have caused him to take his own life.
However, his friends say this is a clear sign that the oil disaster is now taking more than just an economic or an ecological toll. It is actually taking a psychological toll on people in the Gulf Coast. Rookie Kruse taking his own life at the age of 55. We're going to turn now for just a moment to the economy and to the economic crisis. A lot of it has to do with the housing crisis. A lot of people right now are in dire straits when it comes to their home and some are actually walking away from their mortgages. Some people even recommend that you do this.
But before you do this, hold on just a second, we're going to tell you something that might make you want to change your mind about doing that.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Welcome back.
As we know, a lot of people are in a pretty tough position right now when it comes to their homes and when it comes to their mortgages. A lot of people just can't pay the bills. Foreclosure rates are skyrocketing.
But there's another segment of folks who are just walking away from the homes even if they can pay the bill.
Our Christine Romans in New York for us.
Christine, you know, some people can make an argument for this. Even if you can pay the bill, you're so underwater with the home that you're better off just walking away from it. But it might not be the best idea?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, we're talking about people who can afford the monthly payment. Nothing has changed for them. It's not a skyrocketing interest rate. Their monthly bill didn't get bigger.
It's just that they've looked around and see that the property is worth much less than they thought it would be. They had expected prices will continue to rise. They didn't. And now, these investments are basically worthless for them.
These are people who are walking away from their home loan. This is 12 percent of people in default by some estimates are people who can afford to pay. They're just either living in the home and not paying the mortgage or they own the home and they're renting it to someone else, collecting the rent and not paying the bank.
Fannie Mae says be careful. Fannie Mae says walking away is bad for borrowers and bad for communities, and they have reinstated a seven-year lockout from getting a new loan and are also saying there could be legal action in some states where they could go after you for what you have walked away, getting a deficiency judgment against you for the money that you've left on the table.
They say these are -- they're talking about people who have not, T.J., tried the alternative, who have not tried a loan modification, who have not in good faith been negotiating to modify the loan, who have not tried to do a short sale or a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure. That's a deal that you do with the bank where you basically say, I can't pay. I'm handing you over the deed instead of doing foreclosure here.
It's interesting, because, T.J., there are two camps on this. There are a lot of people -- when Ali and I talked about this -- there are a lot of people who get very angry and say the banks were bad actors. They made investments that didn't pay off. Why should we be stuck and saddled with these big investments that didn't pay off?
There are others who say when you walk away, you hurt your neighbor because that's going to end in a foreclosure, it's going to hurt their property value. And what happens to the housing market if big numbers of people start walking away from their home loan.
One thing I think that's really, it was too easy to get mortgages for too long --
HOLMES: Yes.
ROMANS: -- and now, there's a segment of society that thinks it should be just as easy to get out from under them.
HOLMES: Well, Christine, you talk about you're hurting your neighbor, but you're hurting pretty bad, too, if you take a foreclosure hit.
ROMANS: If you take a foreclosure hit, depending on what your credit score is to start, you're looking up to 160 points on your credit score. Fannie Mae says they're going to lock you out from another loan for another seven years.
And Fannie Mae and Freddie -- these government agencies, they guarantee a big chunk of America's home loans don't forget. You're possibly going to have a very hard time borrowing any other amount of money. You're basically freezing yourself out of the financial system for borrowing money or doing any kinds of deals for a very, very long time.
But, look, there are some people who say, it's not -- it's not a problem for me morally and it's certainly not a problem for me to walk away from this property that's worth an awful lot less.
You know, Ali has made a comparison before that always gets people fired up on Facebook and Twitter. And his comparison is this, at the beginning of the year, you buy a flat-screen TV and you put on the credit card.
HOLMES: OK.
ROMANS: Halfway through the year, a model comes out and costs half as much. You said, well, I'm not going to pay for it. I'm not going to pay for the first one, it's worth a lot less. Is that the same way as some people are thinking about a house?
HOLMES: I'll leave it to Ali to get people fired up.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: I'm sure wherever he is right now, he's firing somebody up.
But, Christine, thank you so much. Interesting number, 12 percent in foreclosure now are there because they chose to be there. That's an interesting number. All right, Christine, good to see you, as always.
For those out there who want to see more Christine, and Ali will be sitting next to her, you can watch " YOUR $$$$$" that's Saturdays 1:00 p.m. Eastern and Sundays at 3:00 Eastern.
I am about to make an on-air plea now. Somebody please get me the new iPhone. The new iPhone 4 is out and I don't have one yet. Now this is big news for your techies out there. A lot of people were lined up as well out there trying to get one.
One person that was not in line -- former Apple founder Ron Wayne. Yes, Ron Wayne, you ever heard of this guy? Nobody has. We'll tell you his story coming up next. And I'm serious about the iPhone. Somebody hook me up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. A live picture here, keeping an eye on the White House, expecting comments from the president here in the next ten minutes and he is expected to take a couple of questions at this press conference, this press event. We will certainly take you back there live when this happens.
Meanwhile, I am all ready. Just before the break, I made a shameless pitch for an iPhone 4. I already started getting messages from colleagues saying how shameless I was. I have no shame and they should know better. I was on the lookout for an iPhone 4 because I was not one of the folks in line like they were in New York.
Today, they lined up for hours to be the first and they were in fact the first. You see these lines. Six hundred thousand of these things sold through preorders online.
Also, the U.S., even though these guys were some of the first, the U.S. wasn't the first to get this thing. In Tokyo, they had long lines as well. They got their hands on them first. Some people waited, we're told, three days in line. Also -- taking you to the pictures -- in London as well they got theirs before the U.S. Also on sale -- these things were on sale in France, Germany as well. Some stores already running out. Hopefully not the stores in Atlanta.
Now put all this in perspective here. Apple, back in the day, they sold about 200 -- 200 of their Apple 1 computers. That was back in 1976. Now experts say this iPhone 4 could sell 9.5 million just this month.
But our Dan Simon met a guy who has never owned an Apple even though he actually helped found the company.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RON WAYNE, APPLE CO-FOUNDER: These are from Germany.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His net worth is mostly tied up in his coin and stamp collection.
WAYNE: I play penny machines, mostly the poker machines.
SIMON: A few days a week he drives himself to a casino, hoping one day he'll hit the jackpot. He's 76, retired, lives in this modest home outside of Las Vegas in Pahrump, Nevada. He gets by off his monthly Social Security check.
WAYNE: I'll put it real simple, I've never been rich.
SIMON: A lot of people face similar challenges, except how many can honestly say they could have been a billionaire, more than 20 times over? If only he could have seen it.
(on camera): You know that when people hear your story they say to themselves, my gosh, $22 billion. You could have had it.
WAYNE: What can I say? I mean, you -- you make a decision based upon your understanding of the circumstances, and you live with it. This is -- you know, that's the best you can do. There's nothing you can do about yesterday.
SIMON (voice-over): Ron Wayne is the third founder of Apple. He designed the company's first logo and the first operating manual.
(on camera): With these signatures right here, Apple computer was formed?
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON (voice-over): This 1976 legal agreement shows his name alongside the well-known founders, Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. Wayne, an engineer by trade, had befriended Jobs who he says wanted his help in forming the company.
(on camera): This is the contract right here?
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON: And it says Ron Wayne gets 10 percent of the business.
WAYNE: Yes.
SIMON: And you're happy with that?
WAYNE: Of course. I had -- I had no investment in it. It was a fascinating thing.
SIMON (voice-over): But only 11 days after Apple came into existence, Wayne had second thoughts.
WAYNE: I felt very honestly that the way these guys were going, they were going to bulldoze their way through anything to make this company succeed, but it was going to be a very rough ride and if I wasn't careful, I was going to wind up the richest man in the cemetery.
SIMON: He says he was worried about being on the hook for debts the company would incur. At the time, Wayne's 10 percent stake netted him just $800.
WAYNE: As far as I was concerned, it was found money and I didn't want to get in anybody's way, and why should I -- why I would possibly do that anyhow.
SIMON (on camera): At the time, you were pleased to take it.
WAYNE: Absolutely.
SIMON (voice-over): Throughout the years, Wayne has held various jobs as an engineer. He's never had a particular fascination with computers.
(on camera): How many Apple products have you bought over the years?
WAYNE: In round numbers? About as round number you can get. I have never owned an Apple product.
SIMON (voice-over): Wayne says he's not jealous of Steve Jobs or Apple's success, and says it's useless to waste time wondering what if. He last spoke to Jobs 10 years ago.
WAYNE: I don't think anybody could have imagined the success that Apple did become, but I knew that it would be a successful enterprise because the people who were driving it were skilled and capable and dynamic and focused.
SIMON: Wayne is hoping to finally cash in on his Apple connection with a forthcoming book, the title "Adventures of an Apple Founder."
Dan Simon, CNN, Pahrump, Nevada.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right, well stay with us. We want you to be a part of this next conversation we're going to be having. We're talking about a couple that can't have a baby the way most couples do, but that's not stopping two gay men from trying to start a family of their own. Our Soledad O'Brien's going to join us to talk live about their journey to become parents. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Tonight, CNN presents an hour-long special on two gay men and their quest to start a family of their own. In order to achieve their dream, they must find an egg donor. Our special correspondent, Soledad O'Brien, followed Gary and Tony on their journey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY, PROSPECTIVE FATHER: Her number is up. And --
TONY BROWN, PROSPECTIVE FATHER: Do you know what she looks like?
GARY: Of course I remember what she looks like.
BROWN: Well, I mean -- I only --
GARY: She's a beautiful redhead.
BROWN: OK. It was a while ago. What if she dyed her hair?
GARY: I think I'm more nervous about meeting her mom.
BROWN: Oh, totally.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATION CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): A big day for Gary and Tony, they're picking up the mother of their future child.
BROWN: Oh, my god, how are you?
Hello, I'm Gary.
BROWN: You changed your hair.
HOLLY: I did.
BROWN: It looks beautiful.
HOLLY: Oh, my gosh.
O'BRIEN: An agency has located Holly, a Florida woman willing to sell her eggs for $8,000.
BROWN: I wanted somebody who had my background because it was going to be Gary's, you know, sperm. So I wanted somebody who had green eyes, I wanted somebody who was Irish and Dutch.
O'BRIEN: Gary and Tony picked Holly. Her employer doesn't want her to use her last name because she's donating her eggs to a gay couple.
(on camera): Did it ever give you pause to be donating eggs for two men who clearly can't have a baby?
HOLLY: I never -- it never even crossed my mind. Why would that bother me? They need eggs, I've got eggs. They deserve to, you know, have a family like anybody else.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): For Gary and Tony, this is more than a financial transaction.
BROWN: I know a lot of people in your position don't want to have any kind of contact or relationship or whatever, and just the fact that you're open to it at all is --
HOLLY: I'm so glad that we were able to meet and discuss it.
O'BRIEN: Holly has been taking fertility drugs to increase her egg production. Now her eggs will be extracted so they can be fertilized with Gary's sperm.
DR. MICHAEL B. DOYLE, CONNECTICUT FERTILITY ASSOCIATION: There's an egg, she's doing great.
O'BRIEN: The doctor emerges with good news.
DOYLE: She did great. The procedure we finished -- here, sit down. The egg retrieval went great. We got 14 eggs.
When the donors have the ability and the access to be involved in the donation and know the families they're creating at the other end, it's even more special. I think that's the way Holly feels.
BROWN: Well, that's why we picked her.
HOLLY: We're going to go make a baby together, kind of.
O'BRIEN: Gary and Tony have begun their journey to have a baby.
BROWN: Holly is always welcome. She's never going to have to feel like she's being denied something. I think she gets it. She gets that she's giving us this incredible gift. And it's pretty amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And Soledad O'Brien joins me now.
Soledad, I mean, you know, it's difficult enough just to find someone with the green eyes and the right background. What added layer of obstacles did it add, given that these were two gay men who might run into a lot of people along the way who didn't support what they were trying to do?
O'BRIEN: You know, early on, they said if they lived their lives worried about what other people thought, they really wouldn't be able to move forward doing anything. So I don't think that was their big concern.
I think on this journey they confronted a lot of things. Some of those were legal obstacles. They allowed us to follow them and also follow the story of the surrogates and indeed allow us to follow the story of the egg donor, Holly, and also talk to their family members who were concerned about bringing a child into the world with two gay parents. So we sort of covered a lot of ground. But for the two of them who are gay activists and have been for a while, I think they were less worried themselves about what people thought.
HOLMES: What are we going to the see with the special that's going to air this evening? I guess, what part -- are we really going to see the beginning of this journey and every step of it throughout?
O'BRIEN: The whole journey. And also, I think, some of the back story. Gary and Tony had pretty painful childhoods and I think it's framed their thoughts about how they want to be parents and how they want to raise their child differently than the experiences that they had.
So you'll see everything. We talked to the family members, the surrogate, the egg donor and really follow the path. It's the story of two guys and their journey to have a baby. That involves lots of doctor visits, lots of money, and also involves lots of legal -- you know, time spent in courtrooms, legal battles in some way.
HOLMES: All right, and last thing, is there any part of them that wanted to do this to give other couples almost a manual for how to do this?
O'BRIEN: You know, I don't think that that was what they were thinking when they went into it. They were just thinking -- in fact, you know, we talked them into allowing us to document their journey, so I don't think that they were thinking that at all. I think now they say this will be something great to show their son one day.
HOLMES: Soledad O'Brien, good to see you, as always.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, likewise.
HOLMES: It's coming up tonight. We're looking forward to seeing it. Thank you.
And again, to our viewers, it's "GARY AND TONY HAVE A BABY" airs tonight at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Also we're going to go "Globe Trekking" for a couple of guys who have been slogging around the grass at Wimbledon for the past three days. Two players you have never heard of that are going to be in the history books most likely forever. This is one that likely will never, ever be surpassed, this record they set.
Quick break, we're right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Just a reminder to our viewers, we're standing by to hear from the president, expecting a live event at the White House, maybe expecting him to take a couple of questions. We will take you there live when that does happen.
But first, we have been talking a lot about the World Cup. Exciting game yesterday, the U.S. moved on, that was a big deal. But there was another deal, a really big deal that just took place at Wimbledon.
The longest match in the history of Wimbledon took place. This wasn't just any match. When I say it went on for a while, it went on for three days. In total, it went on for some 11-plus hours.
The winner was an American. His name is John Isner, actually played his college tennis over here at the University of Georgia not too far away from here. He beat a Frenchman named Nicholas Mahut.
Now why this thing went on so long. If anybody knows about men's tennis, you have to win three out of the five sets to move on. This is the box score for these guys, 6-4, 3-6, 6-7, 7-6, 70-68. The fifth set went to 70-68, that many games.
Now why in the world did something like this happen? Because at Wimbledon, fifth set, you don't play the regular tiebreaker. Instead, somebody's got to win by two. So you keep going and you keep going and your keep going until somebody does.
These two guys were worn out, as you can imagine. Again, this went over three days, but listen to them after the match today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ISNER, WON LONGEST RECORDED TENNIS MATCH IN HISTORY: Got a little bit tired, but --
(LAUGHTER)
ISNER: -- you know, when you, when you come out and play a match like this and with the atmosphere like this, you don't feel tired, really, out here, even though that's exactly what we both were.
The guy's an absolute warrior. You know, it stinks someone had to lose, but to be able to share this day with him was an absolute honor. I wish him nothing but the best and maybe I'll see him somewhere down the road and it won't go 70-68.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: You can see, he's a big kid there. He's a big guy with a big serve. He set all kinds of records, including the ace's record. But he's 6'9", the big guy, John Isner.
Also, again, couple more numbers here, it went 11 hours and 5 minutes. The previous record was 6 hours and 33 minutes for a match, that was in the 2004 French Open.
Congratulations. One had to win, one had to lose, and that's unfortunate.
Coming up here next, a lot of people have been looking for Osama bin Laden, including one American who took it upon himself to head over and try to catch the world's most wanted terrorist. He's telling us his story, in his own words. You have to hear it, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right, Osama bin Laden, everybody is looking for him, including one American who decided to take up the hunt on his own. A Colorado man, back home now after police in Pakistan released him without charging him.
Gary Faulkner had been detained earlier this month near the Afghan border. He said he was over there trying to track down bin Laden. And in an exclusive interview with CNN, he says he has no regrets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY FAULKNER, HUNTING OSAMA: I wasn't looking for publicity. I was looking for "Binny Boy." So, you know, because I knew he'd put people's lives in danger. So, you know, I mean, it's not just so simple as just give a quick interview and everything's good and fine and dandy, because it's not that way.
I got off my butt and I put my life on the line to go out there. I know there's -- I mean, my life is a story that you won't believe. But you know what? It doesn't matter. What does matter is, I stood up for what I believed. And if nobody doesn't like that, I could care less. That doesn't mean nothing to me, because I don't see them. I may hear them, but you know what, they do the same thing day in, and day out, because they're miserable, wretched and blind.
You could say I'm a religious freak, I'm a Rambo or a samurai or whatever. But you know what? I'm a person who said, I'm going to get off my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and do something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Gary Faulkner, in his own words.
Some more words from Landon Donovan coming up. He's looking forward to even bigger things. Of course, yesterday's winning goal in the World Cup, that was pretty big, but he wants to go even bigger now. You're going to hear from him next.
Also, a reminder, you're seeing it at the bottom of your screen there, we're waiting for comments from the president. A live event expected to get underway here shortly. We'll take you there live and hear from the president when he starts to speak. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Again, keeping an eye on the White House. A live picture here now, waiting for the president to step out. Expecting him at this live event to take a couple of questions. And you can assume, maybe some of those questions will be about what we saw yesterday with General Stanley McChrystal. Of course, the president accepting the resignation of his top general in Afghanistan just yesterday over that explosive "Rolling Stone's" article. But when the president steps out, we will certainly take you back there live.
Meanwhile, we'll take a break here from that and tell you about what we saw yesterday. What we all saw yesterday and were celebrating yesterday, soccer. The U.S. team did what everybody expected them to do, which was advance to the next round in the World Cup. But they added a whole lot of drama to do so, and they needed the foot of Landon Donovan, the team captain, to score one goal yesterday to beat Algeria. They're moving on.
So Landon, now he's talking. He's talking about how that all went down yesterday. He's also talking about the officiating in the World Cup and his future as well. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LANDON DONOVAN, U.S. SOCCER TEAM CAPTAIN: The tension had been building so much from the missed opportunities to the goal that called back wrongly for us. There was so much tension in the stadium on the field.
Tim Howard, our goalie, caught the ball, threw it out to me. I wanted to be aggressive with my first few touches. I put into Jozy Altidore's path, who did a good job putting it across the goal. Clint Dempsey did a good job getting in front of the goalie, and then it fell to me. In those moments, it's instinctive, it doesn't take a lot of thought process, and you put it where it's supposed to go, in the back of the net.
We don't have the history that other teams do. For whatever reason, things haven't gone our way from the officiating.
It's been a difficult process, but I think it makes it more worth it. And at the end of the day, we still won our group. We haven't lost a game. And now we have a chance to play Ghana for the opportunity to go to the quarter finals of the World Cup. It's awesome.
I'm obviously pretty happy. A little bit of an emotional hangover. I think we're all kind of spent. The emotions of that game, from realizing our World Cup might be over, and then the sheer ecstasy of what happened at the end, now we have a quick turnaround, and we've got Ghana on Saturday. And we want to do something every more special.
Like we always do, we'll spend a lot of time looking at tape, talking about their team. At the end of it all, you've got to get on the field for 90 minutes and perform.
It's not like other sports where you get timeouts and time to talk about things and adjust during the game. You've got to play the game that you're used to playing instinctively. And we still think we're a better chance and we have a good chance.
I've been at this for a while, so I understand very clearly that every four years we have an opportunity to gain some fans and to put ourselves on the map a little bit more. You know, we keep it in perspective because we're competitors, and now Saturday's the most important thing. But when is all said and done, when I look back on that moment, I think I'll be proud of what we accomplished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, proud of what they accomplished, and they are looking ahead, of course, now.
