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Williams & Tea Party Express Booted; NAACP Comments National Tea Party; Alvin Greene Speaks Out; BP May Keep Cap in Place; Waiting for Social Security; Haiti Still Struggling for Basic Necessities
Aired July 18, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. And we want to start with a developing story that we have been telling you about. And it is political.
Tonight a rift in the Tea Party Movement, a major player and his group getting the boot from the National Tea Party Federation after controversial comments on race. The federation, which may be the closest thing the movement has to centralization, today kicked out Mark Williams and his group, the Tea Party Express, which is perhaps the most recognizable tea party group.
Williams has been locked in a war of words with NAACP President Ben Jealous this past week. The civil rights group called on the Tea Party Movement to condemn racism in its ranks.
Here's Williams on CNN this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK WILLIAMS, TEA PARTY EXPRESS: Racists have their own movement. It's called the NAACP.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, Williams then responded with a blog post pretending to be the NAACP president writing to Abraham Lincoln. Here's part of what he wrote. He said, "We colored people have taken a vote and decided that we don't cotton to the whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far too much to ask of us colored people and we demand that it stop."
Williams explained why he wrote the letter to CNN's John King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: What I did was successful and I'm glad it was successful. I'm sorry I had to go to those lengths to slap some sense into a lot of people who are so afraid of politically incorrect language that we can't get a conversation started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Ok, Williams later took the letter down off his Web site. But he defended it as satire. Mark Williams was booked as a guest tonight but he backed out after his expulsion. And here is his e-mail to us. He said, "Sorry, I had to cancel. Traveling plans changed last minute."
He did post a response to the federation's decision today on his blog. And it says in part, "The careless individual tea partier who assumed the mantle of leadership did so long enough to turn a critical and serious movement and delicate peace with skeptical groups into a world wrestling style personality conflict with me at the center."
Joining us now is the man Williams is apparently referring to as the careless individual tea partier in the blog posting. David Webb, a spokesman for the National Tea Party Federation. What do you make of his remarks?
DAVID WEBB, SPOKESMAN, NATIONAL TEA PARTY FEDERATION: Well, Mark Williams is an embarrassment. He's toxic. He's someone who in his own words says, "What I do better than most is figure out which way the parade is marching, dash to the front and say follow me. Nobody wants to listen to me rant and rave. They want to hear some kind of conflict."
Now, there is no rift. And I'm sorry to disappoint the gleeful left. There is no split in the Tea Party Movement. Tea Party Express is a PAC. Our country deserves better PAC. It was founded in 2008 when the Tea Party Movement rose up, they joined in and they came on board.
The federation is not a top-down --
LEMON: But you gladly welcomed them, right?
WEBB: -- in its affiliations.
We welcomed them under the parameters, and they agreed to the rules and the rules also include gross -- or rather exclude gross misconduct.
And Mark Williams from his -- his comments about the monkey God when he referred to the mosque issue at Ground Zero to this and before the Tea Party Movement has a history of this.
I just read you his own words. He is a user. He has used the movement. And he's an embarrassment --
LEMON: Ok, here is my question --
WEBB: -- and there is not a fight in the tea parties.
LEMON: -- here is my question then to you Mr. Webb. Then why, if you -- if you think he's a gross embarrassment, he's done stuff before this that you were aware of, why then allow someone like that into your organization?
WEBB: Well, the organization Tea Party Express came on board. Most organizations and unfortunately every once in a while you'll have someone that does something beyond the pale. This was the last straw with Mark Williams.
It's time to get -- we're -- now instead of talking about fiscal responsibility, limited and effective government and the race issue, which by the way was a serious discussion which I led earlier last week on Sirius on my show, we had a serious discussion until he wrote this letter.
And now if the letter is that good and it's satire, why did he take it down?
LEMON: Yes.
So what do you say about that letter? Do you find this -- did you find that letter offensive or in any way racist as an African- American?
WEBB: I found it offensive and I found it unnecessary. I found it self-aggrandizing of someone who wanted to assert himself into a conversation and get the headlines. We had a serious discussion.
LEMON: But to use words like colored --
(CROSSTALK)
WEBB: We were taken on the false accusations of the NAACP.
LEMON: Pardon me. Pardon me. Because to use words like colored --
WEBB: Yes.
LEMON: -- and to say that we colored people. How else would we get a wide screen TV in every room? And worse like NASA and then sign the letter saying Tom, which means Uncle Tom, precious Ben Jealous, head of the colored movement -- or however he said -- you didn't find that racist?
WEBB: I didn't find it racist to me because I'm above that. But the word --
LEMON: But I don't mean to you. I mean, him, I'm not talking about you. So you didn't think that his actions were racist and what he wrote was racist?
WEBB: I -- I don't know -- I don't know if I'm the right person to determine that he's racist or not. I don't know what's in the man's heart. But I found it clearly offensive, as did many other people -- not just myself -- that's why this action was voted on and taken.
This was a -- this is a -- this is a movement that needs to focus on the issues. And when we're attacked we need to talk about the issues, not get into this invective and hyperbole and that's why Mark Williams is not a good representative.
LEMON: Ok -- WEBB: And he has never been a Tea Party leader.
LEMON: So you said you did find it offensive, though, right? Is that -- am I correct?
WEBB: Offensive, clearly, yes.
LEMON: You find it offensive and so that's why you booted him. But you won't -- you don't think that the words that he put on paper was racist and even as an African-American they didn't offend you?
WEBB: No, they didn't offend me as -- they didn't strike me as clearly racist, if that's the distinction.
LEMON: All right.
WEBB: But they were certainly clearly offensive.
LEMON: Ok, so then, what do you -- does this in any way you feel and was this part of the rationale for -- the rationalization for kicking the Tea Party Express and him out, is that in some way he was proving Ben Jealous' point, the NAACP's point that there are some racist factions in parts of the Tea Party -- not the entire Tea Party. Do you think that he was proving their point in some sense?
WEBB: No, I think what he was doing was he was doing what he's always done; constantly coming up with a way to be above it and over the top. He -- he has been offensive in many, many respects in the past. And it simply was time for them to make a decision.
The Tea Party is about policies and issues. We're off those policies. You and I are discussing Mark Williams. We should be discussing the fiscal issues, we should be discussing proof that what was -- what was said in D.C., either did or didn't happen. We have challenged the CBC to join us in an investigation. We have had no response.
Those are the things we should be discussing with the NAACP and with the Congressional Black Caucus. Not Mark Williams.
LEMON: Ok, here's what I want to ask you then. If he -- he is saying that there is no clear leadership here and no one can kick him out and that you've sort of deemed yourself the leader here.
So then, what does this mean for the future of the Tea Party? Does this mean it's even more fractured than before, does this mean, you've -- someone splits off and does one thing, another group does another thing? What does this mean for the -- for the Tea Party groups?
WEBB: What -- what it means is that it was an act of self- policing where this is not a top-down leadership. The federation, you come to it willingly. We work together. We talk to each other. We address issues. We share ideas. We find ways to move the movement forward. By removing them from that -- we can get back to focusing on the issues. And that's what these over 80 groups representing hundreds of thousands of people across the country are focused: on the issues, the policies in the coming elections, not this kind of hyperbole.
LEMON: Yes and you know, I wanted to get him on. Because I was going to ask him even with just an intro to psychology class in order for you to even pin that, it has to be inside of you, those words.
And most people who don't think that way about people wouldn't even have the -- the faculty or the sense to write something on paper like that. And so I'll get your response to that because I can't ask him because he's not showing up tonight.
WEBB: Well, you know, as I said, I know what's in my heart. You know what's in your heart. I can't speak to his.
But Mark has a history of doing this, of bomb throwing and as I said, in his own words. He will see the parade run out in front and say follow me. He wants this.
LEMON: Are you going to talk to him? What would you say to him?
WEBB: If -- if he wants to talk -- I would say focus on the policy and the issues, not your own self-interest, which is what it appears to be.
LEMON: David Webb, thank you very much and we appreciate it.
We want to tell you that the head of the NAACP, Benjamin Todd Jealous, has been listening and we're going to talk to him on the other side of the break and get his response. And as I understand he has released a statement as well about this issue and he's going to speak to us moments away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So you heard my conversation with David Webb, the spokesman for the National Tea Party Federation before the break.
And now the head of the NAACP is here, Benjamin Todd Jealous.
What did you make of what he said?
BENJAMIN TODD JEALOUS, PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: Well, it was extremely dishonest and disingenuous. This is a guy who just a couple of days ago said there was no way for them to police themselves and then they did.
Now he says that there's no fracture and there is. And then he goes on to say that he's not sure that they've made racist statements, even looking at Webb's letter which says that slavery was a good gig. And clearly there are people making racist statements. He just needs to -- to deal with reality.
You know as I've said before, you know David Webb is showing some real leadership. But with -- you know -- but you've got to be honest with people. You can't have people just staring at you, staring at this letter and being like, God oh geez, I don't know if it's offensive, I don't know if it's racist.
Clearly it was a racially offensive, clearly it was a racist statement. Clearly you can't see somebody's heart, and you can't see their words and these words are deeply troubling.
LEMON: Yes and someone here, someone just said, one of the people here in the studio, one of the camera guys said, "If he's saying it's offensive, the only thing offensive about the letter was its racial tone."
So by saying it was offensive in the sense is in some way admitting that it was racist in a way because of -- because of what he said. So thank you West, for pointing that out here in the studio for me.
You did commend him, though, for breaking ties with the Tea Party Express.
JEALOUS: Yes. Yes and no, I mean, look. Again, they have proved that they can do what Sarah Palin refused to admit they could do. You know, what -- what so many others from Fox News -- keep trying to spin as impossible. Oh, we're so loosely federated, there's no way we can, you know, do what they just did.
So look, they need to just keep on heading down this road, with increased power and prestige comes the increased responsibility to act responsibly. They need to stop the lies you know, saying that we called them racist. We didn't. They need to stop the lies and say --
LEMON: Can you hang on one second?
JEALOUS: And it's like --
LEMON: Can you hold on one second? That's what -- in all of these and I listen to both sides and I understand when the other side says, right -- when tea partiers say this is clearly not the biggest issue facing the African-American community.
JEALOUS: And it's not.
LEMON: And I asked you that earlier in the week and so I agree with that point and I asked you about it and you responded.
The other thing is that I'm hearing is that saying that the entire Tea Party is racist. I have not heard you say the entire Tea Party is racist ever on television or during your speech.
JEALOUS: Yes, yes never. I mean, it's -- yes look, what we're doing will improve the country, it will improve civility. It will keep my people from getting hit over the head with signs by Tea Party folks and it will improve the Tea Party. Nobody will be better off than the Tea Party. You know we have seen throughout history, look, when the Democrats harbored racists, blacks didn't really get involved a kind of -- you know states wide Dixie-crat (ph) party. When they pushed them out, you know, blacks fled the Republican Party.
Now the Tea Party has a 21st century operation, has a choice to be a multiracial party. But if they're going to be a multiracial party, then they can't harbor these racist elements.
LEMON: And you've --
JEALOUS: They've got to keep doing what David Webb has been pushing them to do.
LEMON: You echoed with -- I've spoken to a number of people who responded to my interview with you -- my other interviews earlier in the week. And they said, you know, I believe in what the Tea Party believes in at its core if they are talking, you know, less taxes and smaller government or whatever.
As an African-American I would join the Tea Party. But I am concerned about some of the signs and some of the things that that I'm hearing here.
JEALOUS: Yes --
LEMON: What -- yes, go ahead.
JEALOUS: I mean look, their folks came to black family reunion and had an opportunity. There's a Tea Party event, they could fly (ph) or they could be nice to people. Instead when they saw the NAACP booth they started screaming at folks saying we were responsible for making the monkey president and this monkey president.
Look, if you take that element out, yes. People can have a conversation. We at the NAACP are pushing for a big march on Washington on October 2nd called One Nation. We believe that we're going to get out of the great recession the way that we got out of the Great Depression by creating jobs.
If they want to debate that issue whether we can create jobs or tax cuts or whether we need to create jobs through a new WPA, that's what we all want to talk about.
LEMON: So Ben, I have a couple more things I want to -- if you can just get to it -- if we can get to it. The one thing I want to ask you is people say why then doesn't the NAACP condemn the new Black Panther movement or when there seems to be --
JEALOUS: Done and done.
LEMON: Go ahead.
JEALOUS: Sorry. I mean, sorry --
LEMON: I didn't hear. What did you say? JEALOUS: I said done and done. I mean first of all, let's distinguish here. The New Black Panther Party is a creature of Fox News. They have 40 people on it. They don't belong to the NAACP. They don't come to our events. If they did, we throw them out. They show up with any of that craziness that you see on Fox News, you're gone and you're condemned.
Our call to them is as I said to them many times is the same thing in the Tea Party; get the bigots out of your ranks. But let's be honest. On one hand you have a group of 40 people, on the other hand you have a group the TEA Party that 40 percent of people seem to identify with. This is a much bigger issue.
LEMON: Ok. You're talking about bigger numbers and a movement that has gained a lot of media attention over the last year.
Ok. I get that.
The other thing is you're human. This -- Mark Williams was channeling you saying what -- massah (ph), we colored people, he called you Tom -- basically saying you're an Uncle Tom. What did you think of that?
JEALOUS: That is laughable. I mean it's really -- it's really laughable. And that's -- you know, you have to have a sense of humor in this work. And you know somebody -- Mark Williams just gives you lots of cause just to laugh. It's deeply troubling.
My 12-year-old nephew may get on the computer and Google me one day and get a little confused, but then I think he'll have a good laugh about it, too.
There's nothing funny about it except that he thinks he's entitled to decide who is a Tom and in that Lincoln was the biggest racist ever and slavery was a good gig. The guy is twisted. He should have been thrown out when he referred to a prophet as a monkey god. I mean good riddance, Mark Williams.
LEMON: Benjamin Todd Jealous, thank you, sir.
JEALOUS: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: We're going to move on now to talk more politics. His primary win caused quite a controversy. Now Alvin Greene makes his first campaign speech. He wants to represent South Carolina in the U.S. Senate. Was today's speech enough to sway voters?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We go to South Carolina now and the man who shook up the political world with last month's victory in the Democratic primary for the U.S. Senate. We're talking about Alvin Greene. He delivered his first campaign speech today, giving South Carolina voters their first chance to hear what he stands for and in his own words.
It was a pretty standard stump speech. But it had a few awkward moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALVIN GREENE (D), S.C. SENATE CANDIDATE: I know this guy that some folks got in trouble. This guy happened to be a person of color. This was in the fifth judicial circuit. Anyhow, this guy met the criteria for pretrial intervention, but was denied. That's same guy's trial was scheduled for last week, but was put off.
Anyway, moving on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNN national political correspondent Jessica Yellin joins me from Manning, South Carolina.
Ok, so he -- they were -- people there were pretty receptive to him. And I spoke with two gentlemen; you probably met them as well. They said they don't like the treatment -- how he's been treated. They don't like some of the questions from the media, even some of the questions I asked.
There's a whole slew of controversy around this person. Tell us about this event.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was about 500 people who came here. It was Alvin Greene's first public appearance since he's won the election or the primary here hosted by the NAACP in his hometown.
And I did -- I'll tell you Don, the folks I interviewed before the speech were very skeptical and curious too. I interviewed plenty of people who said they didn't know, based on what they've seen if he was up to the job. They didn't know who he was. And they were a little concerned that there wasn't more public information about him.
After the speech many of those same people had changed their mind and felt that he was not only up to the job and clear and delivered in his speech here, but he was introduced by a speaker who was a family friend who sort of framed this whole issue as something of a challenge for the community.
Saying that Alvin Greene really hasn't gotten a fair shake and it's up to these folks to stand behind him and make it clear that this guy really deserves the opportunity to be the next U.S. Senator from South Carolina if he could prove it.
And we can talk about the substance of the speech but I really think that's sort of what drove a lot of people to feel like they were really behind him and become more receptive to him than they had been at the beginning -- Don.
LEMON: Did he take any questions? Did he answer questions from people in the audience?
YELLIN: No, he did not. I spoke to him before the event. We tried to ask him some questions. He said he would deliver all the specifics on his policy platform in the speech.
His speech had some specifics but not a lot. He said he would speak for 20 minutes. He spoke for only 7. And then the media, there's a lot of media here gathered to try to ask questions after and he went out a different door.
So, I'll say that's very unusual for politicians. They usually can't stand to stay away from a camera. Alvin Greene did not want to talk to us today. Hopefully he'll answer more questions in the future.
LEMON: Might this work for him? Because if people like, if people who were there were receptive as they were and felt that even people who are introducing him said he has been treated unfairly, might this work in his favor?
YELLIN: You know, I really can't judge; this is one audience. He did win a lot of people over. He outlined that he wants to bring more jobs to the state. He wants to work on the criminal justice system. And I think people were impressed that he stood up and delivered a speech that resonated with the issues they care about.
He even had a sense of humor at one point. If you have a minute, I can play a sound bite where he sort of made a joke. Do you want to --
LEMON: Yes.
YELLIN: -- roll that?
LEMON: Let's go for it. Yes, go for it.
YELLIN: Ok.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREENE: I'm the best candidate in the United States senate race here in South Carolina. I am also the best candidate -- I'm also the best choice for the Image Award next year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Ok.
YELLIN: So he doesn't lack for confidence. He doesn't lack for confidence. I'll tell you, of about 20 people I spoke to after this event, 18 of them said yes, they would vote for him.
LEMON: Ok. Stay tuned.
Thank you, Jessica Yellin. We appreciate it.
YELLIN: Ok.
LEMON: We're going to talk a little bit more about Alvin Greene here. The bottom line, did he earn some voters with his first public address?
We asked two people who attended the speech. Jerry Johnson is an unemployed veteran, just like the U.S. Senate candidate but he says Greene did not get his support tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY JOHNSON, SOUTH CAROLINA VOTER: Honestly, not at this point because Alvin Greene walked through the door today. He was shrouded in mystery. He was an enigma. No one knew a whole lot about him. So, I don't think people -- a lot of people came in with the expectation that Alvin Greene was going to step up to the mike today and knock it out of the ballpark. I don't think that was the expectation at all.
I think that people want to hear what his platform was because he had some issues that he already put forth to the public. I think they want to see some substance behind those issues. I think that's what everyone came here for.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will continue to listen to Mr. Greene and for me, personally at this point, I was very, very much more concerned about the process and Mr. Greene's treatment versus me making a determination today as to whether or not Mr. Green will win my vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: In other news tonight, the entire Gulf Coast holding its breath. That's because BP says the new cap is holding back the oil flow and could stay in place for a lot longer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Out in the Gulf of Mexico it is day 90 of the oil disaster and for three days no oil has spilled from that broken BP well at the bottom of the Gulf. BP reports no more oil has reached the coast line in the last 24 hours, and there's less oil in the Gulf to collect.
So we turn to CNN's David Mattingly down in New Orleans. David BP is sounding increasingly optimistic that they have the problem fixed here, at least for the moment. Explain what's going on.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are, Don. But right now we're just waiting. We passed another 24-hour deadline imposed by Admiral Thad Allen. We have not heard yet what the findings are for that last 24-hour period, or what they plan to do next.
But this morning at the last technical briefing that we heard from BP, they were saying so far no problems, no leaks, and no worries about how this test has been going with the pressure building up inside that well.
In fact the spokesman went further to say that it would be possible -- possibly to allow the well to stay closed and to let the tests keep going all the way up to the until the point when they kill this well with that relief well when they fill it up with cement later this week or later this month or later into next month.
So what we're looking at right here is a note of optimism from BP but just a couple of hours later, we heard from Admiral Thad Allen who is much more cautious in the statement that he released. He's saying whatever decision we make to move forward is going to have to be based on science.
And so far, like I said at the end of this latest 24-hour period, we have not heard what they found and what they're going to do with those findings. So at this point, we're waiting to see where they're going to go next. Don.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So David, we're not seeing any oil coming into the Gulf of Mexico but BP this morning said that they were seeing some bubbles coming out of two places. We don't know, there could be some sort of gas or methane or whatever, do we know if there's any another type of leak? What about that?
MATTINGLY: What BP says is those bubbles that they've been looking at, they say could be consistent with equipment that is cooling off. They said their equipment was much hotter when the oil was passing up through it. Now that the oil has stopped their equipment is cooling down. They've tried to explain that possibly that's where those bubbles might be coming from.
They don't know if they have any sort of oil in them or if they're methane. They said they're going to try and collect some of that, get a sample and find out for sure what's in those bubbles and where they might be coming from. But this morning, they did sound like they were down playing what those might be and trying to paint a picture that they are not seeing any problems there.
LEMON: All right. David, thank you. Of course, those relief wells, they're making progress on that. And David Mattingly will report back to us at 10:00 p.m. tonight. Thank you, sir.
Meantime, New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu welcomes the progress being reported at the leak site. But he says that the region has a long way to go before it sees any real recovery.
He spoke earlier today to CNN's Candy Crowley on "State of the Union."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN "STATE OF THE UNION": We've done a couple of stories on what you just talked about, the psychological impact of yet another catastrophe. How does that come to play? How do you see it as mayor of New Orleans?
MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU, NEW ORLEANS: Well, actually, it has consequences that you would expect. Sometimes people get really depressed about it. But other people really step up to the plate. We have to make sure, though, that we're moving in the right direction. If we really cap that well, if we begin to capture the oil. If we really aggressively clean the coast up the way it's supposed to be, you make sure that everybody gets paid. We'll begin to pull ourselves out of this. The people down here are not ever asking for a handout. Nobody has ever asked that. This is our livelihood. This is the place that we live, it's our home. We think it's a very special place and part of America's soul. And so we're just going to keep going one step at a time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Tomorrow night, right here no CNN, an "AC 360" exclusive. Three fishermen who just happened to be in the right place at the right time. They heard the oil rig explosion in the gulf. They were the first to arrive on the scene. And now they shared never before seen photos and video only with Anderson Cooper. That's CNN Monday night at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Social security is something we bank on after retirement. Your parents or grandparents might be receiving it. But you might have to work a lot longer to get yours.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. As you get older; you look forward to collecting that social security check that you've worked for for all your life. But you might have to wait a little longer to get it. That's if a growing number of lawmakers have their way. House Majority leader John Boehner is one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We're all living a lot longer than anybody ever expected. And I think raising the retirement age by going out 20 years until they're closer to retirement and eventually getting the retirement age to 70 is a step that needs to be taken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's talk about this now. Joining me now is Harry Booth. He is from Pompano Beach, Florida and is approaching retirement. Also joining me, Thomas Terry with the American Academy of Actuaries. Thanks to both of you. How are you guys doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.
LEMON: Great. Thomas, I'll start with you. How will raising the social security age help America's financial crisis?
THOMAS TERRY, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF ACTUARIES: Well, I think as most Americans know there is a long-term financial imbalance in the social security system. We have identified this as long ago as two decades ago. But we have failed to act on it as of yet.
Quite frankly, people are working longer, as Representative Boehner just said. And the imbalance between the payout period, the period over which people will retire versus what's really been a fixed working career for most Americans just needs to be addressed. We think the way to do that is by increasing the retirement age.
LEMON: I mean, it's - you know, on paper, I'm sure it sounds good. You know, if you - in the mathematical part of it, but Harry, someone like Harry, who I understand climbs telephone poles for a living, can you see yourself doing this until you're 70 years old.
HARRY BOOTH, APPROACHING RETIREMENT: I'm sorry, you talking to me?
LEMON: Yes -
BOOTH: Oh, I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
BOOTH: No. Absolutely not. I'm dead set against raising the age limit. There's a lot of people like myself that are construction orientated or doing something outside, doing heavy lifting type jobs, you don't have the option of working longer. It's just not in the cards for us because of the type of work that we do.
LEMON: So Thomas, is this going to affect people like Harry? Are we just looking down the line at future generations here?
TERRY: Well, I think Mr. Booth raises an excellent point. There's going to be extenuating circumstances that I think any social security reform package is going to have to address. And I think labor policy, perhaps even disability benefit policy may well be a part of, therefore, social security reform package. So as to address the very issues that Mr. Booth raises.
LEMON: Here's, Mr. Booth, here's a question too because there are people who say the generation before us took all the money and spent it up. And now we are suffering the consequences. What do you say to that?
BOOTH: Well, I can't help what happened in the past. I can only look to the future. But my concern is people like myself will obviously not probably suffer from any policy changes right now. But what I'm concerned about is people in the future and why we had social security in its inception. It was because people didn't have any type of retirement plan or anything to live off of. And I don't think that people can't depend on stock market, 401(k)s and plans like that for future retirement. There are a lot of people are not eligible for those types of plans.
LEMON: So Thomas, listen, how soon are you looking at, how soon are we looking at a possible change of age again?
TERRY: Well, Mr. Booth again raises a very good point. I think any reform package is likely going to want to include some sort of phase in or some such of a method where someone who has been counting on retiring at 66 or 67 with full benefits. They have the opportunity to sort of adjust their savings, adjust their lifestyle, adjust their careers outlooks such as they can, in fact, plan ahead and retire at that later age without any undue difficulty.
LEMON: There's a lot of interest in this. Thomas Terry and Harry Booth, thanks to both of you.
TERRY: Thank you.
BOOTH: Thank you.
LEMON: You know, we have all seen the images of devastation in Haiti. And months after a massive earthquake, people are still struggling for basic necessities even though aid and donations flooded in from around the world. We'll take a look at what's happened to those donations, coming up.
And a special celebration for Nelson Mandela today. It's his 92nd birthday. We'll tell you how people are using his day as inspiration.
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LEMON: We're talking you to our top stories right now.
The high water is receding in eastern Kentucky. But search teams are still looking for victims of overnight flash floods. At least two people died in Pike County and an estimated 200 homes were destroyed. Rescue teams worked through the night, plucking people from their homes and from stranded cars. Several major roads and bridges are also damaged.
In Chicago, a veteran police officer gunned down. Now the hunt is on for suspects. Officer Michael Bailey was fatally shot outside his home earlier this morning after he had finished an overnight shift. Police don't have anyone in custody. But they suspect more than one attacker. Bailey is the third officer, Chicago police officer killed since May.
She is known as one of the original blond bombshells. Tonight Zsa Zsa Gabor is in the hospital. Her husband says she fell out of bed reaching for the phone and broke her hip. Gabor is 93 years old and most well known for her eight marriages, including to Conrad Hilton of the hotel chain.
And South African golfer Louis Oosthuizen swept to an easy victory today in the British Open. He won by seven shots over England's Lee Westwood. Tiger Woods had a disappointing performance, finishing, tied for 23rd.
President Barack Obama is joining leaders around the world in praising Nelson Mandela today. That's because it is the South African president's 92nd birthday. And it's the first annual Nelson Mandela international day. The honor was bestowed upon him by the United Nations. In a White House statement the president said "We are grateful to continue to be blessed with his extraordinary vision, leadership and spirit. And we strive to build upon his example of tolerance, compassion and reconciliation.
Six months ago, an earthquake killed 250,000 people in Haiti. And millions answered the call for aid. Now some of the help sent to Haiti has landed on a road to nowhere with trucks and other resources gathering dust instead of giving aid. Critics blame the Haitian government and worry about future donations. CNN's national correspondent Susan Candiotti has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Heartbreaking scenes of death and mind numbing destruction following last January's earthquake. They moved people to dig deep and give generously.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just felt like it was something that I should do.
CANDIOTTI: But six months later the natural tendency is to move on.
(on camera): How do you think your money has been helping?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have absolutely no idea. I can only just take the good faith that hopefully it was either paying for food or water or just helping somebody out over there.
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): It is. The Red Cross alone said it is providing food to more than a million Haitians a month. Water to about 280,000 daily. Semi-permanent housing to 165,000 people. But for some organizations and volunteers, desperately trying to help, it's not easy.
NAN BUZARD, AMERICAN RED CROSS: For people who want to have things be better, Haiti is a real exercise in frustration.
CANDIOTTI: CNN talked with many international relief agencies that wonder whether aid is being held up on purpose by Haiti's government.
CNN's Gary Tuchman found this at a port.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Earth moving equipment just sitting here for weeks. Over here, two trucks, tanker trucks for the Red Cross, Red Crescent to be used for sanitation. This huge piece of equipment over here. To build new roads. And right around the corner from these tanker trucks, an ambulance. It's just been sitting here in this parking lot for a few weeks.
CANDIOTTI: Haiti's custom director blames delays on a failure by some groups to file the right paperwork. He denies his government is trying to profit at donor's expense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We donated $500.
CANDIOTTI: Some donors are concerned Haiti's government may need more oversight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have some gaps. I think that they should rely on professional expertise of people that know how to do it well.
CANDIOTTI: Actor Sean Penn who has been a fixture in Haiti said people should not be discouraged from donating.
SEAN PENN, ACTOR: I think everybody is getting a clearer sense of how to mobilize. And that an influx of money right now would make all the difference.
CANDIOTTI: For relief groups, every bit of progress depends on donations.
BUZARD: Of course, people should give. That's part of our humanity. It's also what enables the Red Cross and other relief groups to be actually be able to do what we did.
CANDIOTTI: In a country that gives new meaning to challenging conditions.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: A lot of competitors brave the heat to compete in today's New York City triathlon, including our very own Dr. Sanjay Gupta. There he is in spandex. And his "Fit Nation" team as well. We'll see how they did coming up.
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LEMON: Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta and six CNN viewers took part in the New York City triathlon today. They all finished the course which involves running, swimming and biking. Sanjay will be live on CNN's AMERICAN MORNING tomorrow morning 6:00 a.m. with the insider's view of the race. Congratulations, because as they say, I know I'm using bad English, it isn't easy.
You know, five years after Hurricane Katrina nearly 80 percent of New Orleans public school students live in poverty. That's according to the Southern Education Foundation.
In tonight's "Perry's Principle," CNN's education contributor Steve Perry spotlights a program that's helping those students get ready for college and pay for it when they get there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): If a child goes upward bound, they're going to school year round.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PERRY: And on Saturdays.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PERRY: And after school.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tutoring, yes.
PERRY: Tutoring.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PERRY (on camera): Would you say that improves the child's probability of being successful?
TANYA JONES, UPWARD BOUND DIR., TUTANE UNIV.: Of course.
PERRY: What's the neighborhood that you live in?
TONI BATISTE, UPWARD BOUND STUDENT: It's a quiet neighborhood since Katrina, you know, a lot of abandoned houses. Everybody is starting to come back.
JONES: Sometimes they're going back to neighborhoods where they have to make choices not to get involved in any kind of activities that would -
PERRY: That's a really polite way to say it. Activities. What might these activities be?
JONES: Criminal activities.
PERRY: OK.
JONES: Potentially.
PERRY: OK. If there were no upward bound, what would you be doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be at home doing pretty much nothing, to be honest with you, I would be lost.
PERRY: Children who get into the program in part because they're low income and they'll be the first in their family to go to a four-year college. Statistically, the people that you're dealing with, the children that you're dealing with, should not make it. Yet what percentage of your children do you send to college?
JONES: Close to 100 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: The Upward Bound program is very close to Steve Perry's heart. When he was younger, it helped him get into college.
All right. Listen. This will help you out. Because down but not out, Steve Carse was laid off from AIG. But he's come up with a cool new way to pay the bills. And it has something to do with ice cream day. The king of pops is here, and so is the earl of pops, his brother. It's a family business now.
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LEMON: Thought we'd have a little fun with this story. You may have seen it early in the this week. Some of the biggest celebrities from Hollywood and sports were on hand earlier this week for the 2010 ESPY Awards. But listen to the shout out that I got from actor and comedian talk show host Arsenio Hall.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARSENIO HALL, ACTOR: I'm a standup comic. I mean, my world is watching news and then going out and trying to make some money. So between Sanchez and Lemon, I'm usually trying to get new jokes.
I remember hearing about the Tiger stuff on CNN when Don was on one day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And so he was talking about me and Rick Sanchez. Just a little shout out that we got here. There's only one thing I can say to Arsenio about that. Can you guys in the studio help me out? Arsenio?
All these guys, all of a sudden everyone in the building has come up to the studio because we're talking about ice cream today. You don't need an excuse to enjoy your favorite frozen treat. We've got it all for you here. It's national ice cream day. We thought we'd celebrate with one of our show favorites. You may have seen our profile with him. Steven Cars, he's been an analyst for AIG.
But when he got laid off he put all of his efforts into his new business called the King of Pops. Technically, Steven sells gourmet popsicles, not ice cream. But we figures, hey, you know, close enough.
King of Pops is actually out making a living right now, as his brother says on the streets of Atlanta. He's selling popsicles. So don't get the wrong impression. So joining us live now is his brother, Nick, who is the Prince of Pops. That's what we have made, we have crowned you the prince of pops. So what flavors did you bring for us?
NICK CARSE, KING OF POPS: We have all kinds of stuff. We have peach rhubarb. We have Mexican chocolate. We have grapefruit mint. We have habanero margarita. I don't know, all kinds of stuff.
LEMON: You got all kinds of stuff.
All right. Go ahead. These guys want it.
CARSE: You guys are hungry, right?
LEMON: Your brother was doing so well with this after he lost his job with AIG, you were a prosecutor and you said you quit your job two months ago to help out. It's a family business now. It's going that well?
CARSE: Yes, it's going really well. I was a prosecutor out in Gwinette County. And quit that not too long ago and you know, he asked me, and I willingly oblige. I'd rather be putting smiles on people's faces than putting them in jail.
LEMON: Yes. So what do you say, I'm sure they would like that. What do you say to people who may have lost their jobs and you guys came up with this idea that there's always hope. What?
CARSE: There's always hope for everyone. You know, if you have a great idea and you can go with it, then just go ahead and, you know, take a chance. Take a risk. Because it might work out.
LEMON: Yes. What flavors - what are you serving here? Valerie, which one do you want? Are you just going to take what he gives you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. I want - I want the peach one.
LEMON: She wants the peach one.
CARSE: And we have peach. Peach rhubarb. Just for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CARSE: That was a peach about six hours ago. So there you go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CARSE: You're welcome.
LEMON: What do you want, Omar?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surprise me.
LEMON: So listen. after we featured you on CNN, what happened to the business?
CARSE: It has been great. People have been coming up to the corner talking about how they saw it on the show. And they came to check it out just for that reason. So it's been a really good response from the community. And people even outside the community.
LEMON: Thanks for coming in. I drive past your brother every day. You go out to different events as well. You're not parked on a particular corner like he is but you go out to different events. Thank you all.
You're going to owe this guy. They're two bucks a piece. So make sure you your money. Again, it is national ice cream day. That's why we're doing this. We're having a little fun here.
We want to thank you for joining us. Some serious subjects early in the show including the NAACP talk. You're going to see more tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll see you back here then.
"STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley starts right now.
