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White House Debate Over Shirley Sherrod; Rebuilding Waveland, Mississippi; Locking Horns With North Korea
Aired July 21, 2010 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. CHRIS DOLD, VP VET SERVICES, SEAWORLD: Angry turtle! Angry turtle!
These turtles, the 19 that have come in today, were all directly affected by the oil spill. After a transport like this, the main goal for us is just to make sure that everyone is stable and healthy. Remember, these were oiled turtles and -- but they've been de-oiled. They have been treated and they've been deemed medically healthy for transfer.
So he looks good. He's bright and alert and ready to go. And there's 19 of them. So let's keep it moving and we'll get them into the water as quickly as we can.
Right now, here at SeaWorld, we're just operating as a secondary holding facility for the turtles so that they can go through their long-term rehabilitation until they are ready to be released.
And so this guy right here, as you can see with the last three, quite feisty. They look like they're in fair body condition. They'll be a little bit plumper before we release them. We want to make sure that there's no signs of external injury.
All systems are go. A good-looking little turtle. Yes, turtles look good. We'll work from head to the tail, tail to the head, try to get it done quickly. The fact that he wants to leave is always a good sign. This guy's ready to go in the water, too.
Mayonnaise was used for these guys to clean the oil off. And then you'll come back with soap and water and try to get any residual oil off. And then strict observation. You want to make sure that once a turtle starts eating, that what they pass is normal-looking fecal matter and isn't oil-stained fecal matter. It gives you confidence that they've cleared everything out the insides as well.
It's always our goal to return as many animals that we recover as part of our rehab program to their natural environment. And that will be the goal with these turtles as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Now, if you encounter an animal that is affected or covered in oil, please leave it alone. A stranded or injured animal could bite you, could be injured by you trying to rescue it.
If you run across an animal covered in oil or in trouble, call the Deepwater Horizon Unified Command. The number there is 866-557- 1401. Look on the Internet for the Deepwater Horizon Unified Command. But please, tell them where the animal is, don't try and deal with it yourself.
OK. Let's go to the White House for a second. I want to show you a couple of things.
There's a big issue going on. We've been following it for the last couple of days.
This is Shirley Sherrod. This is the former official with the Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Agriculture here in the state of Georgia.
She made a speech. In it, she admitted to doing something that could be construed as racism 24 years ago.
It was a 41-minute speech. Three and a half minutes of it, the part where she talks about what she did, not helping out a white farmer 24 years ago, was put on a conservative blog. It went viral. Other news agencies picked up on this.
Pressure was put on Shirley Sherrod to resign. She had to resign. And now the rest of the speech has been posted.
She has come forward and said this was an example, it was a teachable moment. She was trying to explain that she learned something from it.
On the left of your screen is Shirley Sherrod. On the right of your screen is the White House Briefing Room.
You can see our man, Ed Henry, in the corner there waiting for a briefing, the White House daily briefing.
You can be sure that Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, if he doesn't address it himself, is going to be asked questions about Shirley Sherrod. Who knew about it? Who said that she should be fired n from her job?
Let me tell you a little bit about what's going on.
First of all, we have a statement from the White House. Let me read that to you if we can just put that up.
The White House has said, "We're not sure what the ultimate result will be, but it's clear that with new information through the full speech, a longer look needed to be taken."
So we're waiting to see what the White House has to say about this. And we'll get that in just a few moments.
Sorry. The statement from the White House continues, "The White House contacted the department" -- this is the Department of Agriculture -- "last night about the case and agreed, based on new evidence, that it should be reviewed."
I also want to bring you something that we heard from Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, who had ordered that she be asked to resign. Secretary Vilsack says, "I am of course willing and will conduct a thorough review and consider additional facts to ensure to the American people we are providing services in a fair and equitable manner."
Shirley Sherrod herself may end up getting her job offered back to her. Will she take it?
CNN's John Roberts asked her that earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of other people now rallying behind you, people who had abandoned you at the beginning. If the agriculture secretary were to come to you and say, "Shirley, we'd like to have you back," what would you say?
SHIRLEY SHERROD, FMR. GEORGIA DIRECTOR, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, USDA: You know, I'm just not so sure at this point. I really wonder, in light of how I was treated over the last two days, just what that relationship would be like for the future. Can they move beyond this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. Let's go right to the White House briefing room. Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent, is there.
Ed, we're waiting for the briefing to get under way any minute now. You think Robert Gibbs is going to start up with this, he's going to hit this hard right as he comes out?
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think he anticipates, obviously, that he's going to be pressed about it. He may have a brief statement as his way to deal with it. But he knows he's going to get into some hand-to-hand combat here, and that a lot of reporters are going to be pressing him, because let's keep in mind, this is our first opportunity to really press any senior White House official on camera about this whole affair.
Yesterday, the president did have that news conference with the British prime minister, four questions, two on the British side, two on the American side, and nobody asked about it because there were a lot of other issues that we're dealing with, of course, ,that the two leaders were discussing. But this is an opportunity now for us to bear in on some very simple questions: What did the White House know? When did they know it?
They've been laying the responsibility clearly on the Agriculture Department and the secretary, Tom Vilsack, as you've been noting, but which senior officials here may have been involved? Let's remember that the woman involved, Shirley Sherrod, basically says that it was the White House that was the driving force on Monday when this first broke, that was trying to force her out, and that she got a call from another Agriculture Department official -- three calls, in fact -- urging her to step down, saying that the White House wanted her to go.
That runs counter to what the White House has said so far in their initial comments. And you can bet Robert Gibbs is going to be pressed on that.
VELSHI: Now, the reality is, our colleague, Suzanne Malveaux, reported earlier today that the White House isn't denying that there were people involved in this thing. By the way, Ed, let me know when you have to go, because this thing is getting under way.
HENRY: Well, we just actually -- I'll let you know that we just got an overhead announcement, what you were hearing. Rather than a two-minute warning, we were just told it's now going to start at 2:15 Eastern Time.
So we've got 10 minutes. You and I can either talk for 10 minutes or you can come back to me, I guess.
VELSHI: Well, let me ask you this --- they have said aides were involved. They said on Tuesday there was active discussion about Shirley Sherrod.
So, as much as the White House would like to distance the president from this, the reality is, as far as I know, Secretary Vilsack certainly knew about this. It seems the president knew about this. And it seems that there was active discussion in the administration about Shirley Sherrod and what should happen to her.
HENRY: Well, right, but we need to know exactly when did the president know about it? We know now that the president has since been briefed about this whole affair, but it's not clear to us that on Monday, when all of this was breaking, whether or not the president knew that early what was going on when we were just getting those initial reports, when only the partial portion of that speech was out there, not the full text, number one.
Number two, Secretary Vilsack, in an exclusive interview with CNN yesterday, said that he did not speak to anyone at the White House, trying to shut the door on the notion that the White House was driving this. But let's keep in mind, the Agriculture Department is a pretty big bureaucracy. There are tens of thousands of employees over there.
So, whether it was Cheryl Cook or someone else -- you'll remember that Shirley Sherrod, in this case, suggested that it was this undersecretary at Agriculture who had told her that the White House wanted her out. Was it her, was it some other official? Just because Tom Vilsack did not talk to the White House does not mean there was not other contact going on -- Ali.
VELSHI: OK. That's a good point to make. It's not always linear contact, where the top person in one department has contact with the White House. All through the administration, people have contact at various levels. So, it will be interesting to see at what level in the White House these discussions were taking place. And I trust you and your colleagues will be asking Robert Gibbs about that.
Look, Ed, I'll let you go. We'll check in with you again. Obviously, we'll come to this briefing when it begins and we'll catch up on the other side.
HENRY: OK. See you there.
VELSHI: All right.
Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent, on the case, as he always is.
Hurricane Katrina, the recession, and now the Gulf oil spill, how some kids in Mississippi are helping to rebuild their communities catastrophe after catastrophe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Boy, it's been a long road for recovery for people living in Waveland, Mississippi. The coastal community was virtually wiped off the map by a 30-foot-high wall of water that came in during Hurricane Katrina. Now some of the young people there are "Building up America" in their own back yard.
Tom Foreman has the story.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, you know, I know, everybody knows this part of the Mississippi Gulf Coast was just hammered by Katrina. They lost all of their businesses, almost all of their homes, and now they've had the recession to deal with and the oil spill out there, threatening even greater losses.
Yet, through it all, this town has not only stood firm, but it has focused on a group of citizens here that owns almost nothing of any real value except the key to their future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): The children are riding the waves again around the battered shores of Waveland. No community was hit harder by Katrina and none has been more mindful of the fact children suffered just as much as adults.
Caroline Collins can attest to that. She remembers her father staying through the storm and returning to find him amid the wreckage.
CAROLINE COLLINS, YOUTH LEADER: Coming home and like seeing him when I walked through the door. I remember him kissing all of us on the head.
FOREMAN: So from the start this town has focused on the recovery of children as much as the return of adults because as Mayor Tommy Longo puts it, more than business, more than government. MAYOR TOMMY LONGO, WAVELAND, MISSISSIPPI: The families are the heart and soul of the community.
FOREMAN: As a result, some of the earliest recovery projects here were family-oriented: baseball fields and parks, a community center, a new library, new schools, and safe places for children and their parents to retreat from the devastation and debris.
It is an ongoing process. At St. Clair's Church, still in a temporary building, a new youth group has been started. Beth Gruzinskas is an organizer and she's never had any doubts about staying.
BETH GRUZINSKAS, PARENT LEADER: I lived here my whole life. This is where I belong. This is where my children belong and my family. And there was no question that we were going to rebuild.
FOREMAN: And plenty of young people are fully committed to helping.
COLLINS: We want the best for the community because we love it just as much as all the adults do.
FOREMAN (on camera): Still it is an ongoing process. Convincing adults to deal with terrible things like a great storm or catastrophic oil spill is one thing. Persuading them to expose their children to it is something else.
(voice-over): But this town made that a priority and it still is. As a parent, what do you want other parents to know about your town?
LONGO: That it is -- it is safe. It is a safe environment. I want them to know they need to come home.
FOREMAN: He should know. He has seven children all still growing up right here in their hometown.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: Many young people around here will tell you they really are intent on staying, intent on helping this town rebuild. And over time, they are convinced that even when their parents have retired, they will continue making sure sights like this, already rare, become absolutely a thing of the past, and their town is fully restored, Ali. An inspirational story.
VELSHI: Tom, inspirational, the way you tell that story.
Tom is one of the best storytellers at this network, and he's going out there and telling stories of people who are working hard to make a difference.
OK. Imagine sitting on a boat when a giant whale comes out of nowhere and makes more than a splash. We've got all hands on deck for this whale of a tale and some other fishy business for you when we come back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
VELSHI: Listen, we want to give you some top stories right now.
Detroit's police chief has just unexpectedly resigned. Chief Warren Evans took over last summer. He's aggressive style of policing has drawn some criticism, especially after a raid two months ago that left a 7-year-old girl dead. Michigan State Police are investigating that shootout.
The Congressional Black Caucus says Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack overreacted when he asked Shirley Sherrod to resign over a video or a portion of a video that was posted on the Internet. They are backing her reinstatement. Vilsack says he is going to review the case.
And BP is denying a report that CEO-turned-punching-bag Tony Hayward is getting set to resign himself. "The Times of London" piece cites company sources as saying Hayward's resignation could come in the next month or two.
He's been a PR nightmare for BP. Last month, he was replaced as the public face of the company's Gulf oil cleanup.
Well, ticked-off Democrats broke their filibuster. Now Senate Republicans are determined to hold off a vote on extending unemployment benefits as long as possible. They're taking all 30 hours that the rules allow them for a debate before a final vote expected tonight.
The measure's opponents say it will balloon the deficit even further. Supporters say jobless benefits are too crucial not to pass.
Well, her husband called it the most dangerous place in the world. Today, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton traveled to the DMZ separating the two Koreas and laid down new sanctions against North Korea.
We're going trekking to the DMZ after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. This is a picture of the White House Briefing Room, where reporters are awaiting a briefing that originally we thought was happening at 1:00. And then it was delayed until 2:00. Then it was delayed to 2:15.
It still hasn't begun. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs knows he's going to be getting some questions about Shirley Sherrod and the whole situation surrounding her.
It may be that they're waiting for that. It's unclear what they're waiting for and what the delay is due to.
But Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent, is in that room, and we will bring that briefing to you live when it begins.
What we do know is that the White House is reviewing its position. The Department of Agriculture is reviewing its position on this whole matter. The NAACP has reversed its position, initially calling for Sherrod's -- or applauding Sherrod's resignation, now saying it was a mistake and that she was put upon and she was unfairly treated.
So we will of course continue to follow that story here and on CNN through the course of the day. I'll come right back to that as soon as that briefing gets under way.
In the meantime, let me take you "Globe Trekking" for a moment. Let's start in Korea.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is in South Korea. She has put in some new sanctions against North Korea. She's been traveling around the world for the last few days. She was in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
She's in South Korea. They've instituted some asset freezes of North Koreans and some sanctions aimed at North Korea's elite who may smuggle exotic food or cigarettes.
She has announced those sanctions. And in addition, she and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates took a tour of the demilitarized zone. Now, that's the zone between South and North Korea. It's called the demilitarized zone because no fighting activity takes place there, no hostile activity takes place there.
It's not really demilitarized. It's full of soldiers. Those are the people who actually ensure that nothing is going on.
We actually have some pictures of that. But you know what? We've got Eunice Yoon with a report on -- well, there you see. There's a picture.
You can see Robert Gates, defense secretary, on the right of the screen, Secretary Clinton. And you can see a North Korean soldier looking at them from outside the window.
Eunice Yoon has more on Secretary Clinton's trip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
EUNICE YOON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The new U.S. sanctions target trade and arms, luxury goods, and are meant to squeeze money going to the North Korean regime. However, North Korea is already one of the most sanctioned countries in the world, so many people here see the U.S. move as a largely symbolic gesture to send North Korea a message and underscore a U.S./South Korea solidarity after the sinking of a South Korean warship in March. State Secretary Hillary Clinton stressed that the sanctions are aimed at the North Korean government, not the people.
Both Secretary Clinton and Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited the Korean Demilitarized Zone. This is the line that has divided the two Koreas for 60 years.
And next week, there are planned military exercises between the U.S. and South Korea. These exercises are to focus on anti-sub capabilities. The U.S. and the South Koreans have stressed the drills are defensive in nature, not offensive.
Even so, Pyongyang has condemned these exercises. China has also been very critical, saying that it's opposed to any military activities off its shoreline.
So far, there have been no immediate reaction from China on the new U.S. sanctions on North Korea.
Eunice Yoon, CNN, Hong Kong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELSHI: All right. Let me continue our "Globe Trekking." We'll go from Seoul, South Korea, over to Afghanistan.
Some violence in Baghlan Province. This is a province that until now, had not experienced a great deal of violence, but yesterday eight soldiers were attacked. Two of them are still missing. Six of them brutally beheaded.
These are Afghan soldiers. This comes a day after Afghan President Hamid Karzai had said that he wants the Afghans to take full security control of Afghanistan by 2014.
Secretary of State Clinton, before she was in South Korea, was in Afghanistan. She offered a lukewarm response to that, saying while she'd like the Afghans to take full control, it will have to happen over time.
The reality is: this has been the most violent month -- violent year since the offensive in Afghanistan began in 2001. June has been the most violent month so far, but it's quickly approaching levels where July may be the most violent month -- a month in which the U.S. and international troops have lost the most soldiers.
So, that's the situation in Afghanistan.
We are waiting for the briefing to take place at the White House where Press Secretary Robert Gibbs is certain to discuss the issue of Shirley Sherrod, the U.S. Department of Agriculture official here in Georgia who was forced to resign after a small portion of an inflammatory -- a small portion of a speech which seemed to be inflammatory went viral on the Internet. The full context of that speech came out and it seems to have exonerated her.
We'll stay on this story. We'll be right back. And when that briefing comes out, we'll take you there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK. A much-delayed briefing at the White House.
Let's go to Ed Henry, our senior White House correspondent, who's standing by. He's in the briefing room.
I love actually talking to him at times like this when I saw him sitting down, and now he's sitting down. You can't see it right now, but all his colleagues -- he's standing up. All his colleagues are sitting down facing him like he's a schoolteacher. So, I wonder if he has to be more cautious about what he says because they're all listening to him.
HENRY: No, it's fine. They're all wondering what you're going to ask me and some of them are not paying attention to us at all actually.
VELSHI: Ed, this is interesting, because normally, you don't have to sit around that long waiting for a briefing that was supposed to happen at 1:00 and then 2:00, and then while you and I were talking at 2:00, it's delayed to 2:15. I don't know if you read anything into this kind of stuff -- hopefully, they're going to get started soon.
HENRY: Yes. We should note that on a normal day, Robert Gibbs is typically late to the briefings. So, this is not necessarily meaning anything crazy is going on. But there's the two-minute warning right there -- so, Robert Gibbs is coming out finally.
I think the bottom line is there's going to be a lot of questions obviously about exactly what the White House knew, when they knew it -- but also, the question of race. It was just about a year ago this summer when the president kind of slipped up in that news conference when he was asked about the arrest of Henry Louis Gates in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and he made some comments that he later pulled back. And president actually walked in to this briefing room and then sort of dialed some of it back and it ended up leading to that beer summit with the police officer involved, Henry Louis Gates as well as the president.
My colleague, Suzanne Malveaux, spoke earlier to a White House aide who said there's no plans for a beer summit again, one year later, this time involving Shirley Sherrod or anything like that. But you have to wonder about the fact that race has obviously been a difficult issue for this White House on some occasion to deal with.
VELSHI: All right, Ed, we'll let you take care of that. On our side, we don't -- the president doesn't have to have a meeting with Shirley Sherrod. She's right here with me in the studio. She'll be watching the press conference. In fact, she's right over my shoulder, being seated right now. We've been talking to her.
Obviously, we've been talking to her here at CNN in great detail ever since this story broke to get all of the details of it. So, I'll let you get seated.
HENRY: OK.
VELSHI: This is the press conference that's going to start any minute now with Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary. We'll get Ed's reaction to that. We'll get Shirley Sherrod's reaction to what the White House said.
Let me tell you, the White House has said that it is going to review this situation. The agriculture secretary who was involved in the pressure for Shirley Sherrod to resign has said that he will review this. The NAACP, which was critical of Shirley Sherrod after that puny little piece of video was released out of context, has said -- has reversed its criticism of her. So, the bottom line is Shirley Sherrod largely exonerated by the release of the entire text of the speech, 41 minutes of speech. But this is what she had been saying all along.
Now, the reporters, like Ed, are going to be asking Robert Gibbs who knew what in the White House, whose decision was this? Who told whom to call Shirley Sherrod and tell her that she needed to resign? Who put that pressure on her and why did people not call for more information? Why did 3 1/2 minutes of a video that started on a conservative blog and went viral possibly end this woman's career?
And what happens to her next? Do they come back and offer her her job back and does Shirley Sherrod want her job back after the treatment that she's faced at the hands of the federal government?
This is a remarkably interesting story that's about to get more interesting with Robert Gibbs, the press secretary to the president of the United States.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Where is -- are we missing anybody back there that -- that's going to -- I'm -- do you know if anybody else is back there waiting?
CBS, we're calling (INAUDIBLE) -- I want to -- Mr. Feller will go ahead.
QUESTION: Thanks, Robert. Can you tell us what the White House he's position is right now on Shirley Sherrod? Should she get her job back?
GIBBS: Well, let me -- Secretary Vilsack is -- has tried and is trying to reach Ms. Sherrod. When the secretary reaches her, he will apologize for the events of the last few days and they will talk about their next steps. I think it is -- I think clearly that a lot of people involved in this situation from the government's perspective on through acted without all the facts.
Now, as you saw Secretary Vilsack's statement from last evening, now that we have greater knowledge and broader facts sent, he is going to review all of those facts and that's what he'll talk to Ms. Sherrod about today.
QUESTION: Does the secretary plan to offer her her job back?
GIBBS: Well, again, I think that's something that the secretary and Ms. Sherrod are going to talk through those next steps.
QUESTION: What was the president's involvement in this? Can you walk us through that? And when he (INAUDIBLE)
GIBBS: I believe the president was briefed on this sometime yesterday, most likely in the morning. This was, as you heard Secretary Vilsack say yesterday, a decision that was made by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The president was briefed yesterday and has been briefed obviously today as well.
QUESTION: So, did he or anyone at the White House direct that she be fired?
GIBBS: Not to my knowledge, no.
QUESTION: And to a lot of people trying to follow this story, they see a government employee who ends up losing her job because of comments posted on a videotape that appears to be taken out of context. It just looks bungled. Is that a fair way to put it?
GIBBS: Well, Ben, I think this is one -- I think this is a fair way to put it: members of this administration, members of the media, members of different political factions on this, have all made determinations and judgments without a full set of facts. I think that is -- that is wholly and completely accurate.
I think, without a doubt, Ms. Sherrod is owed an apology. I would do so certainly on behalf of this administration.
I think if we learn -- if we look back and decide what we want to learn out of this, I think it is, as I said, everybody involved made determinations without knowing all the facts and all of the events.
QUESTION: Why do you think that happened?
GIBBS: I can't speak for everybody involved. But I think we live in a -- I think we live in a culture that things whip around, people want fast responses, we want to give fast responses and I don't think there's any doubt that if we all look at this, I think the lesson -- one of the great lessons you take away from this is to ask all of the questions first and to come to that fuller understanding. I say that, again, from the perspective of this administration, I say that from the perspective of those that cover this administration, and those that are involved in the back-and-forth in the political theater of this country.
QUESTION: One last one on this -- that apology from the secretary, is that -- does that reflect the president's view as well?
GIBBS: Again, I did so just a few moments ago on behalf of this entire administration.
QUESTION: It does sound like you've spoken to the president about this. If so, does he think she was a victim of a rush to judgment?
GIBBS: Again, I don't think I'd be out here, Matt, giving you the answers that I just gave to Ben without having those reflect the feelings of the president and the feelings of the members of this administration.
QUESTION: Was he angry about the way this transpired?
GIBBS: Well, again, look, we -- decisions were made based on an incomplete set of facts. We now have a more complete set of facts and a review is being done as it should be.
QUESTION: What if any concern is there within the administration that this handling of Ms. Sherrod could hurt the president and the Democrats as well in the elections?
GIBBS: Your question encapsulates a little bit of what I was talking about a minute ago. I know there is a -- we have this society and this culture now that's pervasive in this town where everything is viewed through the lens of who wins, who loses, how fast, by what margin?
You know -- look, a disservice was done, an apology is owed. That's what we've done. This administration has never looked at -- I think if you go well back into the campaign -- never looked at a scoreboard at the end of each day to figure out where we stood.
QUESTION: OK, one other subject, the financial regulation president signed today. He said that reform would, in fact, bring certainty to the business community. But we have major business groups, the Business Roundtable, the Chamber of Commerce, the IPA (ph), saying that actually, it brings greater uncertainty, could have unintended consequences for business -- the uncertainty about how the new regulations will be implemented, the welter of regulations are being introduced --
GIBBS: I think there are people that believe that. The regulations that governed our economy and our financial industry up until the moment the president signed that piece of paper into law that that was just fine. That if some people take some risks, make some gambles and we all owe money because of it or if 8 million people lose their job because of it, that's just fine.
The president has -- the president has a different take on that. The president is glad that we are not approaching the second anniversary of the financial collapse with the same rules in place that led to a tremendous retraction in economic growth, more than 8 million jobs lost.
I think in many ways government is about choice and about choices. I will let those that oppose this bill defend the choice that the rules that we had in place are the ones that should continue to govern the financial sector. The president certainly does not believe that, and thank goodness through Republicans in the Senate put aside those differences to ensure that a very strong piece of legislation that will protect consumers and Main Street is now the law of the land.
HENRY: Robert, I wanted to go back to Shirley Sherrod because when you started out by saying that Secretary Vilsack is going to call her and apologize. And then as you put it, talk about the next steps, here we are two days later, presumably people inside the White House have seen the full tape, realize that it seems an injustice was done here.
Why is there still vagueness? Why hasn't the president, the chief of staff or somewhere here picked up the phone and said, here's what we're doing, make a decision, instead of saying, we're trying to figure out the next steps? Why do they --
GIBBS: Well, I don't think I'm being vague. The secretary of agriculture employs a number of people to carry out the duties and the functions of the Department of Agriculture. I think there are clearly some things that Ms. Sherrod will likely want to talk to Mr. Vilsack about and we're going to let that conversation --
HENRY: Wait, but this is the president's administration. It's bigger than Vilsack or any department. This appears to be an injustice. Why wouldn't the president intervene instead of letting this all fall out?
GIBBS: I'm -- we have a fuller set of facts. A review is taking place and the secretary is trying to reach Ms. Sherrod to apologize for the exact injustice that you talk about.
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: Hold on. Let me just finish a few of my answers. As I said, a disservice was done for which we apologize. I think the next step that has to happen is the secretary needs to speak with her. And he's tried to reach her and we hope --
HENRY: Is he going to tell her something specific or offer her her job back?
GIBBS: Again, I know -- I know we've all got deadlines. We're going to let this conversation --
HENRY: OK. Now, Shirley Sherrod has told CNN several times that Cheryl Cook, the deputy undersecretary of agriculture, called her three times on Monday when all this was starting to unfold, was pressuring her to resign and specifically said that the White House wants you to step down.
GIBBS: Again, I think I would point you to the interview that the secretary did with --
HENRY: The secretary said and told CNN yesterday he did not himself speak to anybody inside the White House. But there are thousands of people who work at the Agriculture Department.
GIBBS: Right. And as I said to Ben earlier, I know of no conversations that have happened like that as the secretary said.
HENRY: So, no one at the White House --
GIBBS: I answered your question.
QUESTION: Apparently, she's watching this briefing, Shirley Sherrod, on CNN right now. Is there anything you want to say to her?
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: She's watching you --
GIBBS: And let me -- the secretary is trying to reach her. I hope that the secretary reaches her soon and they have an opportunity to talk. The secretary will apologize for the actions that have taken place over the past 24 to 36 hours and on behalf of the administration, I offer our apologies.
Again, this is more directed at everybody at large here. I think everybody has to go back. We have -- we will continue to look at what has happened over the past 24 to 36 hours and ask ourselves how we got into this. How did we get into -- how did we not ask the right questions? How did you all not ask the right questions? How did other people not ask the right questions? And go from there.
QUESTION: I asked the right questions. I actually called her before reporting on this to find out what her story is. So, you can fault the media if you want, but --
GIBBS: I'm not faulting the media, Jake, but I -- no, no, hold on. I'm not here to fault the media. I've apologized on behalf of the administration. I will say -- I -- a number of people called quite quickly after these comments aired and wanted to know what our response was.
I don't know -- I don't know who else called. I don't know who made calls trying to seek a greater understanding. We made a mistake on that and I think many involved in this made mistakes on that.
QUESTION: I've heard conservatives and liberals say this administration overreacted because you're afraid of conservative commentators. Do you think there's any truth to that?
GIBBS: No.
QUESTION: Can I ask a follow-up on the financial regulation? One of the uncertainties a lot of people in the business community are worried about has to do with the fact that there's so much role-making that has yet to occur -- hundreds of rules, dozens of studies. Is that not a possible reason as to -- because there are so many things that were left vague in this legislation, is that now possible --
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: Let's be clear. Rule-making doesn't take place based on legislative vagueness. Rule-making is -- happens in virtually every piece of legislation that is passed in order to implement legislative directives.
QUESTION: The president said that the business community right now should not have uncertainty because this legislation was passed. The truth is they don't know --
GIBBS: Again --
QUESTION: -- somebody who's derivatives need to be monitored, they don't know what things are going to be --
GIBBS: I think the legislative intent is clear. I do not believe that -- I think -- I think this provides certainty for people on Wall Street. It provides certainty for people that work in the financial industry. And I think it provides certainty for those on Main Street, that they're going to be protected.
Again, there were those -- I think many of the people that you discussed -- let's be clear -- spent tens of millions of dollars hiring hundreds if not thousands of lobbyists to water down the legislation and stop it. That's the role that many of those people played that you just mentioned. I don't think that -- I think the motives of those, I think, are important to understand. And I do think this provides certainty for all.
QUESTION: Last question about Shirley Sherrod. Why do you think there was such an overreaction?
GIBBS: I don't know. I think, again, I think in a frenzied culture where everything happens so quickly, where -- when everybody -- when one person has a story, everybody has to have a story. And responses are given; mistakes, in this case, clearly were made.
QUESTION: Robert, during the campaign, particularly on this speech in race in Philadelphia --
VELSHI: OK. That's White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs mentioning several times that Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack is trying to get hold of Shirley Sherrod. The secretary and his staff certainly know where to reach us at CNN.
Shirley Sherrod is with me right now, as you see. She has been watching these responses.
First of all, Shirley, you got an apology on behalf of the administration. Robert Gibbs said very clearly he was speaking on behalf of the administration and the White House apologizing to you and that Tom Vilsack is trying to reach you. And if he calls you, we'll put him right through and that he's going to apologize to you as well.
How does that make you feel?
SHERROD: You know, it makes me feel better. This shouldn't have happened, took too long. But it makes me feel better that the apology is finally coming.
VELSHI: Robert Gibbs keeps on saying, this is a frenzied culture, it's all about fast responses. Do you think that's what it was or do you think it was motivated by something different?
SHERROD: You know, again, being so afraid of the machine that the right has put out there, I think that's what was driving this. I think that's why they were so quick to act without listening, because I clearly was saying, please listen to the whole tape. That didn't happen.
VELSHI: Ed Henry, our correspondent, was there asking Robert Gibbs why all this talk about we're going to look into it, we're going to do this. And Robert Gibbs kept saying, we need to find out what went wrong. And you were on camera at that moment saying, I can tell you what went wrong.
SHERROD: Yes. They -- you know, quick to, again -- I guess there's this -- well, I don't want to call it fear, of what the right can do. What can they do if we are all stand and those of us who oppose those views can all stand together and deal with it, then there's no reason to be afraid of what they put out there and what they say, because we can counteract that with the good.
I think jumping to the conclusion so quickly, get her out of the way, push her under the rug and we're through with that, was one way they felt to quickly deal with her. Get her out of here, you know, without looking at the person. Why did they hire me in the first place if they didn't believe in what I had done up to this point?
And if they had just looked at what I was doing since I had been at the agency. You know, I was working my butt off. I can tell you that. And I was reaching out to all of the communities that I was working with. I was making some changes within the staff. You know, not bringing -- I couldn't bring on new people because we're at our full employment level here in Georgia. But looking at some of the things that were happening within the agency --
VELSHI: Yes.
SHERROD: -- in Georgia, you know, I was beginning to make changes there as well.
VELSHI: Does Secretary Vilsack have your cell phone number? Does he -- and do you have your cell phone with you?
SHERROD: I'm sure they can get it. They have it in the state office.
VELSHI: OK. And do you got your phone with you in case he's trying to get --
SHERROD: I have my phone. I have one person here holding my phone.
VELSHI: You'll let us know if the secretary of agriculture gives us a call, right? Let us know we'll definitely want to put you through.
What may have been missed by a lot of people following this story is the part of your speech that initially wasn't spread virally -- what we've come to describe as the teaching moment. Tell me what that message is. If the message you would have liked to have spread out there got out, what would it be?
SHERROD: That message is that we need to stop looking just at race, just at black versus white. We need to get beyond that. We can't forget that because that's definitely part of us. But let's try to move beyond that to see if we can work together to make this place a better place for all of us.
VELSHI: And you were using your example of something that happened 25 years -- 24 years ago to say, that was the old me.
SHERROD: Yes. That's exactly what I was doing. And I've told that story over and over and over since 1986 because that was a moment where my eyes were opened. That's when I saw it. And the life I've lived since that time speaks to that as well. And that's why I use me, that's why I use my life --
VELSHI: Right.
SHERROD: -- and the work that I've done to make that point.
VELSHI: So, in other words, if somebody takes the first half of your sentence that, you know, back in the day I used to not be a very good person and I wasn't good to people or I didn't make the right decisions, this -- do you feel you've been hurt by blogging, by the Internet, by the fact that somebody can take a 41-minute speech and take 3 1/2 minutes out of context and ruin your career?
SHERROD: Yes, that's exactly what happened. That's exactly what happened. I lost my job -- I'm unemployed now for the first time -- I can't remember when I didn't have a job, you know?
Now, does that mean I won't continue to do good work? No, that doesn't. I will always do that until the day I die because that's me. That's a part of me. Where I'll do it, how I'll do it, I don't -- I can't tell you at this very moment. But I know I won't stop helping people.
VELSHI: What happens when they offer you your job back?
SHERROD: You know, I just don't know at this point. I don't know.
VELSHI: Because Robert Gibbs says that's a discussion that you and Secretary Vilsack are going to have when he reaches you and I -- I'm hoping, I'm sure -- I know the Agriculture Department well. They're listening. So, the minute they see you free, I suspect your phone is going to ring.
SHERROD: Well, I really -- sitting here looking at some of the statements they made over the last couple of days, I -- you might feel that they're about to offer a job. I don't. You know, I really don't. Now, I would be totally surprised, I should say, if they do.
VELSHI: Do you accept their apology?
SHERROD: I accept the apologies. I'm bigger than some of them. I can move beyond this. That's what -- that's how -- I couldn't have made it to be 62 years old and doing what I've done -- what I've done if I couldn't move beyond a lot of the things that have happened to me. I could tell you some stories, believe me.
VELSHI: I guess you wouldn't have picked this way to become famous?
SHERROD: No, I definitely would not have. And then if I -- you know, if you had been -- if anyone had been able to look within me on Monday night as I was doing all of that driving, just trying to get to my comfort zone, which was home, you know, you would have wondered whether I could deal with it. I want to thank you all for helping me to be able to get the story out there, the truth out there and helping me to be able to deal with it a bit better.
You know, I was wondering how would my grandchildren look at this when they read about this in later years and their grandmother being the first black person to be state director of rural development in Georgia was asked to resign by the first black president. You know, it's like, oh, my goodness.
VELSHI: That's not the story you would have written.
SHERROD: No, not at all.
VELSHI: All right. Well, this story isn't over, obviously. There are some conversations that have to take place. And, of course, we at CNN remain very committed to getting the full story on this. That's what we did. When we first saw this happening, we wanted to see the rest of it.
Shirley Sherrod, stay here. Thank you for joining us. I'm glad that you got the apology that you got. That's it for me.
"RICK'S LIST" is coming up next with Rick.
