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Change in Leadership at BP; Revelations From War Leak; Growing Number of Irish Illegal Immigrants in the U.S.; What Arizona Immigration Law Really Means
Aired July 27, 2010 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. Good morning.
Live from Studio 7 at CNN world headquarters, the big stories for Tuesday, July 27th.
Ninety-nine days into the Gulf oil crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP: Again, I haven't seen this. I don't know the precise number. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: But he knows he is being kicked to the curb. BP chief Tony Hayward getting his life back like he wanted after a slew of missteps and awful second quarter financial results.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While we will tell them what the pitfalls are if they overstay, it's the better choice in their mind to come out here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Illegal in America, not just an issue for non-whites. Europeans also have reason to worry.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My mother-in-law kind of got tired of me doing a whole lot of nothing there for a while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: -- forced into new territory to get through these difficult financial times. It's success taking root.
HARRIS: Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
Those stories and your comments right here, right now in the "CNN NEWSROOM".
He is the public face of the Gulf oil disaster, the target of anger and frustration for those whose lives and livelihoods were lost or disrupted. Today, on day 99 of the disaster, BP announced that CEO Tony Hayward is out. Replacing Hayward, Bob Deadly, an American with Gulf Coast roots.
Deadly says the disaster will alter the way BP does things in the future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB DUDLEY, BP MANAGING DIRECTOR: There's no question we're going to learn a lot from this accident in the Gulf Coast. It's going to be about equipment, people, different companies. And as a result of that, we're going to learn a lot, both BP and the industry. And I'm sure there will be changes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. Let's take a closer look at Bob Deadly.
He is a chemical engineer with more than 30 years of experience in the oil industry. He has been in charge of the day-to-day operations in the Gulf Coast since June. He is also a native of the region.
He grew up in Mississippi and has often spoken of swimming and fishing along the coast. He says the cleanup is a personal mission.
We want to find out how people along the Gulf Coast are reacting to the changes in leadership at BP.
For that, we turn to our David Mattingly. He is in New Orleans.
David, what is the reaction from residents and others to the news that Tony Hayward will be replaced with a Gulf Coast native?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, there were three things that Tony Hayward said and did that really said him apart and created a great distance between him and the people of the Gulf Coast. It's when -- at the time that he was rather exasperated about how long it was taking to cap the well when he said that he wanted his life back. And then there was the vacation he took where he went back home to the yachting race where he spent time on his boat. That did not sit well with people here as the oil was coming ashore in the Florida panhandle. And then there was that -- other times where he was making comments that made him seem like, accordingly to people here, that he just wasn't getting what they were going through.
But in terms of his departure now, we're hearing from people like New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu, who summed it up best, saying it's the actions on the ground here that are going to speak more loudly in the long term than any change at the top of BP.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MAYOR MITCH LANDRIEU (D), NEW ORLEANS: It's a welcome change, but just changing faces and not changing corporate philosophies doesn't really get you anywhere. The people in the Gulf South want to know that BP is completely and totally committed to completely making it right, and that means not leaving just because the well is capped.
Again, you know, it's important. You've got to capture the oil, you've got to clean the coast, make sure everybody gets compensated, and then start thinking about how BP is going to completely make it right long term for what it is that they've done down here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: That term, "make it right," something that BP keeps repeating in the television spots that they're adding here, that they will be here to clean up the oil, they will be here to compensate people, and they will make this right. And those were words that first came out of Tony Hayward's mouth but, again, it's the actions that follow that are going to speak loudest -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right. David Mattingly for us.
David, good to see you. Thank you.
Greenpeace protesters today shut down about a dozen or more BP stations in London. They covered BP signs and put up posters, pretty clever ones like this: "Closed. Moving beyond petroleum."
Not bad. The demonstrators also erected gates around the stations and pulled a safety switch to shut off the power.
Carter Evans is standing by at the New York Stock Exchange. The announcement of Tony Hayward's departure came along with BP's earnings report.
And Carter, what do these numbers look like? And financially speaking, is BP going to feel the fallout over this spill for a long time to come?
CARTER EVANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, BP's certainly going to feel it. This is a massive, massive cost to clean up this spill, and it's not going to be an easy thing for investors to swallow.
We're talking about $17.2 billion. That is the exact figure in focus today, and that's how much BP said it lost in just three months between April and June.
Now, the plunge comes largely because of a more than $32 billion charge to cover the costs to clean up the spill. Now, that sum should cover most of the direct costs, but the company does admit that it cannot estimate future claims from lawsuits and other penalties. Additionally, BP may even have to pay fines to the U.S. government for violating the Clean Water Act, and some estimates put that tally as high as $18 billion, and that would be in addition to the $32 billion -- Tony. HARRIS: You know, Carter, it's almost impossible to look past what happened in the Gulf, but you know what's odd about this is when you get beyond the oil spill, BP is actually, from what I understand, performing fairly well.
EVANS: Right. Well, you know, that $17 billion, that is a huge number, but revenue actually increased almost 30 percent to more than $10 billion in the second quarter for BP. We've been talking about a lot this earnings season. Revenue growth is really what a lot of investors want to see from any big company, and if it weren't for all these cleanup costs, BP would have actually posted a profit of about $5 billion, and that's even more than it made this time last year.
Still, the main concern, beyond the bottom line, is the company's reputation. And while some may see Tony Hayward as kind of a sacrificial lamb, they're not getting rid of him entirely. They're just moving him to a very big, lucrative project in Russia.
And replacing him is an obvious step to improve the company's image in the Gulf. About a quarter of the company's gas and oil production happens right here in the U.S., so a good relationship with Americans is crucial.
But, you know, Tony, the fact that BP can afford to pay this off in just one quarter and absorb all these costs, it gives you an idea of just how huge this company is.
HARRIS: I think you make a great point there. All right.
Carter Evans at the New York Stock Exchange for us.
Carter, see you a little later this hour and next hour.
Later this hour, a look at Tony Hayward, how his is the face of so much anger in people along the Gulf Coast.
And Jacqui Jeras has the picture you must see -- massive hail in South Dakota.
We're back in a moment. You're in the "CNN NEWSROOM".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK. Checking other big stories for you.
Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen arrived in Iraq today after visiting Afghanistan. He is reviewing plans for a troop drawdown. All U.S. combat forces set to be out of Iraq within the next five weeks. Mullen's visit to Baghdad comes amid an uptick in violence and as lawmakers struggle to form a coalition government.
The body of an American sailor has been found in eastern Afghanistan. NATO authorities say the remains were discovered Sunday.
The search continues for a second missing sailor. The two disappeared Friday after leaving a U.S. military base in Kabul in a civilian vehicle. A Taliban spokesman says one died in a firefight, the other is being held by the group.
Experts seem to agree there are no bombshells in the classified military documents leaked by whistleblower Web site WikiLeaks, but the 90,000-plus documents do reveal disturbing secrets from the Afghan War zone.
Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a guy in white right there.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fall 2007: U.S. troops fend off a feared attack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They've got one on top of the building right here, too.
ROBERTSON: It is a remote, barely accessible U.S. mountain base, Camp Keating, barely 100 troops at the time. I had just arrived. They told me a month earlier, a massive Taliban ambush nearby killed the base commander.
CAPTAIN JOEY HUTTO, U.S. ARMY: We had never seen them armed that well. I mean, there were numerous rockets. Until someone has come out here, seen this terrain, and been in some of these type firefights, you will never understand what these soldiers are trying to express.
ROBERTSON: It was clear then the base was vulnerable. But far worse was to come. Only now are the details of how bad becoming clear.
According to "The New York Times," one of the 92,000 documents details a Taliban attack here two years later as the base was being closed because it was undermanned and ineffective. CNN has not independently confirmed the authenticity of the documents, but according to the newspaper, desperate computer messages were being sent indicating insurgents had made it to the last line of defense.
Support did eventually arrive. Eight soldiers were killed, almost two dozen wounded. It's what WikiLeaks boss Julian Assange calls "the squalor of war" and why he says he's outed the documents.
JULIAN ASSANGE, WIKILEAKS FOUNDER: Our goal is just reform. Our message is transparency. But we do not put the method before the goal.
ROBERTSON: Assange says thousands of documents were being held back so names can be removed. Still, some military experts are upset.
GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: None of these documents are being filtered for potential harm that could be done to our troops, revealing vulnerabilities in our troops' location, in our tactics, in our techniques, in our procedures. I -- the only word that comes to my mind is outrage. ROBERTSON: There is outrage in Pakistan, too. The leaks apparently show Pakistan's intelligence services have been supporting Taliban attacks on U.S. troops, fingering this former intelligence chief in particular.
HAMID GUL, FORMER ISI CHIEF: There is absolutely no truth in what has been said. I have a moderate position which I take, and that moderate position is that this was wrong.
ROBERTSON: The allegations, like much that is emerging from the documents so far, are not new, but threaten to destabilize Pakistan's rocky relationship with the U.S. Pakistani officials recently told me they want a friendly government in Kabul, not one that supports their arch rival, India. The implication is the Taliban are their insurance against that happening.
RICHARD HOLBROOKE, U.S. SPECIAL REP. FOR AFGHANISTAN AND PAKISTAN: Here's a country in which both India and Pakistan have interests. And unless those interests can be brought into symmetry, and that symmetry aligned with the Afghans, this war could go on indefinitely.
ROBERTSON: British newspaper "The Guardian," that, like "The New York Times," has had access to the documents for the past few weeks, says it has compared the military's accounts of events with other sources, concluding in the cases they highlight, civilian casualties have been under-reported.
(on camera): So, is this going to make a difference? Well, from many years in the region, I can say no, at least not immediately, because much that has been leaked has either been leaked before or been the subject of intense speculation.
However, having said that, very few of the documents have been thoroughly examined, and it's in their detail, like the attack on Camp Keating, when its vulnerabilities were known for years that the damage may occur.
Nic Robertson, CNN, London.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
HARRIS: So, in two days, Arizona's controversial immigration law goes into effect. Exactly how will that change for the state and its residents?
We are breaking it down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You know, a week ago, the Shirley Sherrod saga once again shined the spotlight on race in America. It is a discussion we will continue today.
First, here's part of the story of the ousted Agriculture Department employee you saw first right here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: There is zero tolerance for discrimination at USDA?
SHIRLEY SHERROD, FMR. GEORGIA DIRECTOR, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, USDA: I'm assuming there is. You know, I don't know, but I'm assuming there is. I know I didn't discriminate, and I made it very clear to the staff there at USDA that it wouldn't be tolerated during my tenure.
HARRIS: So why are you out?
SHERROD: I said it over and over again.
HARRIS: Why are you out?
SHERROD: Pardon?
HARRIS: Why are you out?
SHERROD: Why am I out? They asked me to resign. And, in fact, they harassed me as I was driving back to the state office from West Point, Georgia, yesterday. I had at least three calls telling me the White House wanted me to resign.
HARRIS: So the pressure came from the White House?
SHERROD: And the last one asked me to pull over to the side of the road and do it.
HARRIS: Are you willing to name names?
SHERROD: And that's exactly what I did.
HARRIS: Are you willing to name names?
SHERROD: Pardon?
HARRIS: Are you willing to name names?
SHERROD: Oh, I can tell you, that was Cheryl Cook, the deputy undersecretary. She called me and said -- because she called me, and I said, "Cheryl, I've got a three and a half hour ride to get into Athens." She called me a second time, "Where are you now?" I said, "I'm just going through Atlanta."
She called me again and I said, "I'm at least 45 minutes to an hour from Athens." She said, "Well, Shirley, they want you to pull over to the side of the road."
ELOISE SPOONER, GEORGIA FARMER: Our son, he came up this morning and says, "Mama, turn on the TV to CNN." And he said, "It's about your friend Shirley Sherrod."
And I said, "What?" And we listened and I said, "Great days, that ain't right. They have not treated her right." She's the one I give credit to helping us save our farm.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So, next hour, we talked with CNN political contributor Donna Brazile. We want to get her thoughts on shaping the race discussion in America. How does it go? It's a topic we will pose to a cross- section of people in the coming days and weeks.
While we are bringing you news from around the world, we are also watching what's hot online. Josh Levs searching the Web for us.
Good morning, Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony. You've got to see this video.
HARRIS: OK.
LEVS: Let's go right to it.
These two astronauts outside the International Space Station, they're supposed to do a regular spacewalk to replace a video camera, update some cable connections. And pretty soon something is floating away.
The folks at NASA are trying to figure out what it is. They say later they believe it was probably a clamp, but they need to do a bunch of research to find out.
And then, minutes later, something else starts floating away. And everyone's trying to figure out what's going on up there.
But we have some answers for you, all the details, CNN.com.
We also have got more news with Tony Harris right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Ninety-nine days after BP's oil well rupture in the Gulf, the company is making a change at the top. Tony Hayward is it out. Bob Deadly is in as CEO. The change effective October 1. Hayward is expected to take over a BP operation in Russia.
Other top stories we're following for you.
A Lufthansa cargo plane goes up in flames in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. New video just in to CNN just moments ago. Eighty tons of cargo went up with it. The two pilots were injured and have been taken to an area hospital.
And the man who received the world's first full face transplant makes his first public appearance in Barcelona, Spain. He is identified only as "Oscar." His surgery back in March took 24 hours.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT) HARRIS: What does the face of America's illegal immigration look like? You may be surprised where a growing number of undocumented workers hale from.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS (voice-over): Pictures, information, insight you won't find anywhere else. "CNN NEWSROOM" with Tony Harris -- anything can happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: No shortage of topics at the White House today. Congressional leaders from both parties are there, meeting with the president right now. After that, he is expected to speak to reporters. We expect that in about a half hour's time, noon Eastern Time. And of course we will go live to the Rose Garden for the president's remarks.
Arizona's controversial immigration law goes into effect on Thursday, so all week we are taking a look at immigration issues. While most Americans are focused south of the border, CNN's Jill Dougherty found another group of undocumented workers in the United States -- the Irish.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, basically, everybody here knows each other?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. It's like a little village from home.
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): We'll call her Bridget, 42 years old, originally from Kerry, Ireland. She lives in Yonkers, New York, for decades a destination for Irish immigrants. A close-knit community proud of their heritage. But Bridget is part of a growing trend -- illegal Irish immigrants.
'BRIDGET', UNDOCUMENTED WORKER: I came with a tourist visa, so legally I was supposed to stay for 90 days and I was going to go back and everybody was -- everybody was overstaying their visa.
DOUGHERTY: That was 20 years ago. Bridgette doesn't want her face shown. She's married and she has an 18-month-old baby.
(on camera): How do you survive? You have a job.
'BRIDGET': I work part time. I used to work full time until I had my baby. I work as a nurse's aide. So I work off the books mainly.
DOUGHERTY: Cash?
'BRIDGET': Cash. I get paid cash. DOUGHERTY: The number of undocumented Irish workers actually is quite small. An estimated 50,000 out of a total of nearly 11 million undocumented workers from around the world.
(voice-over): But here in Yonkers, and in Boston, and in Chicago, their numbers are growing, fueled by Ireland's current economic crisis that killed the boom of the '90s.
Orla Kellerher directs the Irish Community Center.
ORLA KELLEHER AISLING, IRISH COMMUNITY CENTER: I'm receiving e- mails and phone calls here every day at the moment from people who are planning on coming out. And while we will tell them what the pitfalls are if they overstay, it's the better choice in their mind to come out here.
DOUGHERTY: At Rory Dolan's (ph) restaurant, I meet Ann Marie Fallon, an architectural student from Dublin, working here legally on a one-year visa. Several of her friends she says have left for London or Australia.
ANN MARIE FALLON, ARCHITECTURE STUDENT: I would love to go back daily to Ireland to make sure that I settle there, that I find work. But the potential of the place again, has really reached the heights that it was at, I don't think is there.
DOUGHERTY: Neil O'Dowd, journalist and co-founder of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform believes the Irish stay in the U.S. illegally because of number of legal visas is limited.
NEIL O'DOWD, JOURNALIST: If the current immigration laws were in place, the ancestors of Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy would never have been to America.
DOUGHERTY: Bridget tells me she's missed the funerals of two brothers in Ireland. By law, if she leaves the U.S. she can't return for 10 years.
(on camera): Do you regret coming and staying illegally?
'BRIDGET': Regret coming here? Do I regret staying here illegally? Yes. But every year since I've been here, I was hoping that there would be some immigration bill being passed.
DOUGHERTY (voice-over): 20 years later, she's still waiting.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, Yonkers, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: We should tell you there has been a record number of deportations takes since President Obama took office.
Ines Ferre is with us and following that story.
Ines, if you would, break this down for us. INES FERRE, CNN CORRESOPNDENT: Yes, Tony. Well, ICE says that last year this administration removed more people from the U.S. than any other administration in the history of this country.
A "Washington Post" report shows that some 400,000 people are expected to be deported this fiscal year, nearly 10 percent above the 2008 total, and 25 percent more than in 2007. ICE assistant secretary John Morton says that in a world of limited resources, they're prioritizing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN MORTON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY, ICE: We've focused on criminal offenders, we've focused on recent border entrance, and we've focused on people who game the system, people who have a final order and don't go home, got their status by fraud, departed the country and came back in illegally. We're just serious about enforcing the law but doing it in a way that makes sense and takes into account the fact that we don't have enough resources to remove every single person who's here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FERRE: And if you haven't seen a lot of images of company raids where immigrants are rounded up in handcuffs, that's because officials are swaying away from these and they're doing more company audits. Finding them and forcing them to fire illegal workers. It's cheaper for ICE this way. The companies don't rehire illegal workers and the theory is that if they can't find work, they'll leave -- Tony.
HARRIS: Ines, I've got to tell you, as I follow the back and forth in this debate, neither side seems particularly satisfied with what's going on.
FERRE: Yes. Look, I'll give you an example. You have a June memo that tells ICE officers to focus on felons and repeat law breakers and avoid deporting parents that are caring for children. But some critics say this is like a selective amnesty, giving folks immunity. And then you've got critics on the other side that say that families are still being broken up.
HARRIS: Yes, absolutely.
All right, Ines. Appreciate it. Thank you. See you a little later in this hour.
And again, next, countries around the world are struggling with booming immigrant populations. In some cases they are living in horrible conditions. CNN's Stan Grant reports. The United Arab emirates has decided to do something about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Stan Grant on the streets of Abu Dhabi. The United Arab Emirates depends on immigration just to make this place work. More than 80 percent of the population comes from somewhere else. 99 percent of the private industry workforce are foreigners.
So the question is not so much illegal immigration, the question here, the rights of migrant workers. Now, the U.S. State department and Human Rights Watch have complained about the treatment of workers here, whether it be pay being withheld or people being poorly paid, inadequate housing, or sometimes even passports that are confiscated by employers.
Now the government here has recognized there is a problem and they are now putting in laws to try to deal with it, to try to make sure there is adequate housing, to try to improve the living conditions of workers but all of this is still to play out. At the same time, the region is being hit very hard by the economic downturn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. CNN's Stan Grant.
So here we are just two days before the new Arizona immigration law goes into effect and our Josh Levs is looking closely at the law -- Josh.
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Tony, the changes that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed into the law are significant. I'm going to show you what the legislation says and how it lays the ground work for the next stage in this nationwide battle. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: OK. Here we are, Day 99 of the oil disaster. It is not Siberia, but it's close. BP's embattled chief Tony Hayward out on October 1st, reassigned to Russia. He'll be replaced by Gulf native Bob Dudley. Dudley becomes the first American CEO of BP Worldwide.
Chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Admiral Mike Mullen is in Baghdad. He is reviewing plans of the US troop withdrawal. All U.S. combat forces are scheduled to leave Iraq at the end of next month.
A garage sale treasure. Have you heard this story? Ten years ago a California man paid $45 for some negatives. Turns out they belonged to famed nature photographer Ansel Adams. They were believed lost in a dark room fire. Experts say they are worth at least -- wait for it -- $200 million. Man.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: A judge is considering a request by the Obama administration to prevent Arizona's new immigration law from going into effect on Thursday.
Let's take a look at what is actually in the law. Josh Levs is here with a breakdown.
And there was a lot of the discussion, obviously, over this new immigration law in Arizona. But let's talk about what's actually in it, Josh. LEVS: Right. We went through a bunch of different versions. That's part of what's so important to understand as we lay the groundwork for what's about to happen this week. That you know what the words are, especially in that key section everyone keeps talking about, this whole idea of police being able to pull people over and ask them certain questions.
Governor Jan Brewer signed some changes into the law at the end of April, and that's the final version. It's the version we're working with here. You need to see what some of these changes are. Take a look at this. This is the section I'm talking about. Here it says law enforcement may not -- and it originally said solely - may not solely consider race, color, or national origin in implementing the requirements.
They took it out solely. So what the bill actually says now is the law enforcement may not consider race, color, or national origin in implementing the requirements. But now you've got to see the second half of the sentence. Look at this -- except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution.
So, A, this is basically inviting judicial scrutiny. But the idea here is that within our own system, it's not totally illegal right now to consider race. There's a standing Supreme Court precedent in which the Supreme Court once said decades ago, it's OK to consider race to some extent as one element when deciding whether to pull someone over. So what's they're saying here is that police cannot consider race except to the extent that has been determined to be allowed. So you have a lot of subjectivity there.
Let me show you another important change. It originally said for any lawful contact, when it was talking about what authorities can do. They actually dropped contact because the concern there was, what if someone out there sees a crime take place and wants to go to the police? Well, that's contact. Then when they're talking to the police, the policeman is therefore required to ask them for their immigration status. It was changed. It no longer says contact. It says for any lawful stop, detention, or arrest. So you're starting with only those situations in which the police are the ones who go to stop these people.
HARRIS: Got you.
LEVS: And it goes on to say, in the enforcement of another law or ordinance.
So they have to have a different reason to stop them in the first place. They can't stop them for suspicious of being an illegal immigrant. They have to have gone through a red light, something. Then it goes on to say, where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is unlawfully present in the United States.
And then here's a bunch of words. I'm going to back through this quickly because I want you to see how much subjectivity it is. A reasonable attempt shall be made when practicable to determine immigration status of the person except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. A lot of words there.
Basic idea, Tony, you've got reasonable, when practicable. There's a ton of room for subjectivity in this law. And when we look at what the court system's going to do and what the police are going to do, this what we're going to have to see. How it plays out and how different parts of the judicial system read that law.
HARRIS: You can drive a semi truck through reasonable.
Let's do this. Let's push this forward. Next hour, let's look at some of the myths and then compare it with the facts. Maybe we can do that next hour.
LEVS: Yes, that's great. I've got that going for you, too. Some of the big myths out there, including how does this compare to the actual existing federal law. How much is really new in here? And how much is not? I'll break that down for you next hour.
HARRIS: OK. Josh, appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
You know, there was a whole lot of this last month on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY HAYWARD, CEO, BP: I haven't seen this.
I don't know the precise number.
I'm afraid I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I'm afraid I don't know that, either.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Yes, but now we all know his future as BP's CEO.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BUSINESS HEADLINES)
HARRIS: So, Tony Hayward out as BP's CEO. He will be replaced by American Bob Dudley in October.
CNN's Allan Chernoff looks at Hayward's embarrassing response to the oil disaster in the Gulf, which led to the change.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAYWARD: I wasn't part of the decision making process on this well.
ALLEN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It wasn't the Gulf oil spill that doomed BP CEO Tony Hayward, rather his awkward response to it. A nation furious at the environmental and economic catastrophe needed to see a contrite, compassionate CEO. Instead, BP sent what appeared to be a pompous foreigner.
First Hayward minimized the problem, claimed the amount of oil released was tiny, relative to the Gulf itself.
HAYWARD: I think the environmental impact of this disaster is light to have been very, very modest.
CHERNOFF: Then he whined about damage he had suffered.
HAYWARD: There's no one who wants this thing over more than I do. You know, I'd like my life back.
CHERNOFF: Not even BP's PR machine could salvage Hayward's reputation.
HAYWARD: I am deeply sorry. We will get this done. We will make this right.
CHERNOFF: The CEO then attended a sailing race in which his yacht was competing, while residents worried about their livelihood were left to clean up BP's mess. BP executive Bob Dudley then arrived to oversee the clean-up. Hayward's fate appeared sealed.
FADEL GHEIT, OIL ANALYST, OPPENHEIMER: He obviously get all the credit when things go well, and he gets all the blame when things go bad. It's like the president of a country.
CHERNOFF: Hayward had gotten a lot of credit. Before the spill, BP earnings had had steadily climbed during his three-year tenure. He pulled it off in part by slashing expenses, all the while claiming BP had fixed safety lapses that had led to the 2005 Texas City refinery fire that killed 15 people. Turned out, Hayward was wrong about BP's safety. He appeared unaware of his own company's failings, as was apparent during his appearance before Congress.
HAYWARD: I haven't seen this -- again, I haven't seen this. I don't know the precise number. I'm afraid I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm afraid I don't know that either.
CHERNOFF (on camera): The Gulf oil spill was a disaster. Seeking a party to blame. As BP's CEO, Tony Hayward assumed ownership of the catastrophe.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: As you know, BP has faced blistering criticism for months along the Gulf Coast. But today environmental activists launched a new campaign on its home turf.
CNN's Zain Verjee has the details from London. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At 5:30 this morning, Greenpeace activists launched a covert operation. Small teams found around central London and they hit almost 50 BP petrol stations. Just like this one here.
Look what they did. They put their banner over BP's logo and then they put ones like this one up saying, close, moving beyond petroleum.
I spoke to Greenpeace. And I asked why are they doing this?
JOHN SAUVEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GREENPEACE UK: Today BP have announced that they are changing the boss. And I think that what we want to do is make them not just rearrange the deck chairs but actually look at the whole future direction of the company.
VERJEE: Greenpeace says that when they got here everything was calm. They spoke to the station managers. The station managers were given a letter explaining why they were doing this. The police were called. And that there was no trouble.
Greenpeace also brought fences like this one and bolted them down so nobody can enter the BP petrol stations. They also removed the most crucial part.
It's amazing to think that this little switch has totally shut down many BP stations across central London. I managed to get my hands on one of these. This is called the fireman's switch. It's on every single box at a petrol station.
And by removing this little item, the power supply to the petrol pumps has just been shut down.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: We will tackle the incendiary subject of race next hour. The government's firing of Shirley Sherrod over a speech edited to appear she had discriminated against a white farmer is forcing an honest discussion. We will try our best. I will be joined by CNN contributor Donna Brazile.
Plus, salary outrage. Officials in a small California city forced to step down after paying themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars. Those stories and much more in the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Well, all right. A bit of business of business news for you right now. Citibank customers doing their banking by way of an iPhone. Might want to listen up here. Your personal account information could be at risk. Citibank is warning customers who utilized their mobile banking services by way of iPhone to update the new application software being offered. The older version, apparently, has a security flaw allowing a user's account information to be mistakenly saved.
Nissan is recalling more than 51,000 Cube hatchbacks. You know the ones. They look like -- there you go. They look like a shoe box. Safety regulators say if the Cube is in rear-end accident, fuel can spill. So Cube dealers are installing a special protector to prevent leaks. Models affected are made in 2009 and 2010.
In today's economy many people are going in fields they never dreamed of to make a living.
Adrianna Iwasinski with affiliate KWTV shows us how an Oklahoma man transitioned from the tire industry to selling vegetables.
Take a look.
ADRIANNA IWASINSKI, KWTV REPORTER (voice-over): Mark Cannon seems right at home picking tomatoes off the vine. Surprising, considering he's only been doing this about a year.
MARK CANNON, PLASTICULTURE FARMER: This land that we have here, it belongs to my father-in-law and he's got 8 acres here in the middle of the city.
IWASINSKI: Mark worked for Dayton Tires for 12 years before it closed its doors.
CANNON: My mother-in-law got tired of me doing a whole lot of nothing there for a while. So she brought an article to me about the Plasticulture Program.
IWASINSKI: That opened a whole new world to Mark.
Micha Anderson is with the Oklahoma Department of Agriculture and heads it up.
MICHA ANDERSON, OKLAHOMA DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE: They do a lot of this in Georgia and Florida and places where they grow a lot of vegetables for grocery stores and stuff. And we actually have some people that are selling to some independent grocers such as Krest (ph) and Reisers (ph) and things like that.
IWASINSKI: Since the plastic keeps the ground warm, farmers can plant their crops sooner and harvest them faster.
CANNON: It's a great way to grow produce.
IWASINSKI: The Department of Agriculture takes care of all the start-up costs, too, including putting in the irrigation, prepping the soil, and, of course, laying down the plastic. They also subsidize some extra costs so the farmers can get a business started.
But it's only a three-year program. After that, the farmer is on their own. Mark says he's already established a pretty good clientele who appreciates his fresh off the vine produce. He says this beats a at a at the tire plant any day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
