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Judge Mulls over Arizona Immigration Law; Measuring the Oil Damage; Paid to Smoke; 100 Days of the Oil Disaster
Aired July 28, 2010 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, this story -- it's the top of the hour and we've got a story for you that's definitely going to have -- you're going to have an opinion about. A Christian grad student claims that her diploma is being denied because of her biblical beliefs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER KEETON, SUING AUGUSTA STATE UNIVERSITY: While I want to stay in the school counseling program. I know that I can't honestly complete the remediation plan knowing that I would have to alter my beliefs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: She says that her school went too far and she's ready to fight it in court. Later this hour, all sides weigh in.
But first, the big story right now, SP 1070 eve; many eyes on Arizona, the state's controversial and contested immigration law supposed to take effect tomorrow. The big question right now is will a federal judge let it go forward? Seven lawsuits trying to block it.
The judge says she doesn't have to make her decision before tomorrow that she wants to get it right. Arizona's governor says the feds forced the issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JAN BREWER (R), ARIZONA: We are being invaded by illegal immigration in the state of Arizona. And this is another tool. And we are just helping the feds do their job because they won't do it.
The bottom line is that the people of Arizona are frustrated. We shouldn't have to do it. The federal government should be doing it. And if they won't, well, the legislature and the people of Arizona overwhelmingly believe that we need to enforce it and help them do their job.
We're a nation of laws and we hope that those laws will be enforced.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Governor Brewer also stressed that anyone who discriminates while enforcing the law would be punished.
Among other things, SB 1070 the law requires police to question the residency status of people they stop. Critics fear it will lead to racial profiling.
The judge Susan Bolton is in Phoenix. Jose Miguel is a reporter with CNN affiliate KPHO TV there.
So what do you think, Jose? Do we expect any movement today on those legal challenges?
JOSE MIGUEL, KPHO TV REPORTER: Well, Kyra, that is what we understand will be taking place today, and I can tell you that we're seeing a lot of activity here at the courthouse. Meaning there's a lot of officers setting up barricades. They seem to be setting up different kinds of barricades all around the building to prevent any protesters from making their way inside.
But we do understand that Susan Bolton has indeed made some type of decision. She is indeed trying to decide whether or not SB 1070 is considered to be unconstitutional.
A lot of people questioning whether or not it will lead to racial profiling, whether or not it will lead to people being stopped simply because of their race or the color of their skin. Judge Bolton challenged a lot of the attorneys to show her the wording that -- that this would indeed happen.
She can only read things in the law that state that there must be some type of criminal activity in order for somebody to be stopped. So, again, we understand that her decision will be made sometime this morning.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Now tell me about these protests that are planned, Jose.
MIGUEL: We understand that there are people protesting already at the state capitol. Those protesters will then march through the streets of downtown Phoenix all the way over to Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office.
Now Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been very vocal on SB 1070. They do plan on protesting outside of this building mainly because he says he is fully prepared to take action if this law goes into effect.
He's actually expanded the amount of space within his tent city which is the jail here in Maricopa County. He says he has plenty of room available if anybody were to be arrested because of SB 1070 going into effect.
PHILLIPS: And all eyes on the state especially law enforcement. What's the message from those in charge to the offices that are going to be there on the streets? MIGUEL: They are basically going through as much training as possible right now. They want to make sure that they are following the new law to the T. They've been watching a lot of training videos to get a better understanding of the wording behind this law, how will it work.
They're also watching training videos so that they can avoid any type of racial profiling or any accusations of racial profiling.
As you can imagine there's a lot of tension going on here. They're not sure what the reaction of the community will be either way, whether or not the law goes into effect or doesn't go into effect. So they are just trying to be as fully prepared as possible -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Jose Miguel, appreciate you reporting for us.
And a Fremont, Nebraska's immigration law is on hold. It bans people from hiring or renting to illegal immigrants. The city council suspended the law. It was supposed to kick in tomorrow.
Two civil rights groups suing the city. They claimed the law discriminates. The council wanted more time to size up the legal challenges and make sure the city has the money to defend itself in a lawsuit.
It's been a rash of crimes against Latinos in a Staten Island neighborhood. And today hundreds of Latino immigrants plan to march in protest. New York police have beefed up patrols in the Port Richmond neighborhood. There've been at least 10 incidents in that area since April, including beatings with baseball bats.
CNN tonight, "JOHN KING, USA" on the road in Arizona. John King live from Arizona, CNN tonight, 7:00 Eastern.
Now a developing story out of Pakistan. Two American citizens reportedly among the 152 people on board a doomed passenger jet that slammed into the hills outside of Islamabad.
Right now no reports of survivors. Crews are working to recover bodies from the twisted metal scattered across the forest floor. It's still too early to determine what caused that crash but at least one flight recorder has been recovered.
A milestone of misery, day 100 of the Gulf oil disaster. The underwater gusher stopped but the extent of the damage is still being tallied. At least three million barrels are oil have spewed into the Gulf.
Across the region, thousands of workers have lost their jobs. Tourism has virtually disappeared and wetlands have been damaged.
There are encouraging signs of progress, though. The slicks of oil that once stretched across the Gulf and onto the shore have all but disappeared. The amount of skimmers that had once collected 25,000 barrels of oil a day barely managed to collect a single barrel on Monday.
And we did a little math. And the number is pretty shocking. It averages out to less than a cup of oil recovered by each of the 800 skimmers taking part in the cleanup.
Earlier this morning, we heard from the Gulf Coast native who's just been named as BP's next CEO. Bob Dudley had been overseeing the day-to-day operations in the Gulf from capping the well to cleaning up the mess. And he spoke by phone from BP's headquarters in London.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, AMERICAN MORNING ANCHOR: As the new CEO of this company what are you going to do to restore trust -- public trust in BP?
BOB DUDLEY, INCOMING BP CEO: Well, John, one thing I want to make very, very clear is that, although I will be heading off to London in October, the attention on this is this is the single highest priority for BP going forward.
It is -- you can build -- the only way you can build a reputation is not just by words, but by action. And there is a -- I picked up that people think that once we cap this well, we're going to somehow pack up and disappear. That is certainly not the case.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: BP has faced blistering complaints from residents who say that the company has been too slow to pay for damages. Dudley says that's a top priority right now. He says as of this morning more than one quarter billion checks have already been handed out.
Well, it's been 13 days since the ruptured well was temporarily capped. But that reprieve comes too late for much of the Gulf shoreline.
Jacqui Jeras is going to walk us through some of the latest measures of that disaster.
What do you think, Jacqui?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we're talking about the impact on beaches, Kyra, in particular. And the Natural Resources Defense Council issues a list every year on the quality of public beaches and how safe they are for people.
Now, this year, they released their report and included a special section just for the impact of the oil spill and some of those findings, yes, you're not going to want to hear about them.
The reports says that there are 10 times the number of closing advisories this year on Gulf beaches compared to last year. And that includes more than 2,000 days of closure advisories due to that oil.
It cited that the oil is harmful to your health with long-term exposure causing everything from skin irritation and nausea, to reproductive problems, and even cancer called the fining stomach turning, and seeing the oil disaster is just tremendous in terms of causing damage to the environment and to the economy.
Now all of the beaches were rated on a five-star system, and this shows you some of the things that they were rated on. Everything from the quality of the water to what it's done in the past to how often they test that water, how often they issue these advisories and whether or not they post those things online.
We can break this down state by state for you, and this is where you're really going to notice that compared to 2009, the state of Alabama just this year so far has had 360 advisory or closing days compared to zero last year. Florida had 607 compared to zero. Louisiana, 733 compared to 180. And Mississippi had 479 of those closure or advisory days compared to 57.
So quite a shocking number, I think, and impacting oh so many people. Now they also wanted to talk about how serious this can be for your health and what you need to do in order to keep yourself safe if you're planning on going there on vacation with your family or if you happen to live there.
They suggest that you avoid areas where oil can be seen or smelled. Avoid any direct skin contact with oil, oil contaminated water and sediments. If any oil makes contact with your skin, you're supposed to wash it off immediately, and of course do not fish or swim or engage in any kind of water sports in the oil-affected areas.
And sometimes even though you don't see it, it may be out there. And they also have a lot of information and updated closures and advisories on their Web site which is NRDC -- there you can see it. NRDC.org and you can click on all of this, an interactive map and find that information for the specific beach that you may be looking for.
All right. It's not just the oil-spilled beaches. It's also all of the beaches across the U.S., and not just ocean beaches. We're talking the Great Lakes as well as maybe your favorite national park.
How clean is that water and how safe is it for you? We'll tell you the top best and worst beaches across the U.S. coming up when I see you again.
PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui. Thanks.
A pair of wildfires on the move in Southern California right now. This home among the dozens swallowed by flames forcing hundreds of evacuation. The other wildfires are tearing across Sequoia National forest. Even prompted Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to declare a state of emergency.
A rare sight in northeastern Montana. Stringer's Jenny Engle had her camera rolling as this tornado touched down. We're told that two people died, another was seriously hurt as the twister slammed into a ranch right near the town of Reserve. It's no secret that exercise can help cut out stress and anger. Wonder if Mel Gibson has heard of that. One sports club is actually looking to bank on his infamous rants.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We're going cross country. First stop, Salt Lake City. The Supreme Court there is ordering a new trial for controversial polygamous leader Warren Jeffs. They're throwing out two convictions of rape as an accomplice.
He was accused of forcing a 14-year-old girl into marrying her 19-year-old cousin. The justices say that the judge in Jeffs' case gave erroneous instructions to the jury.
To Chicago where jurors will start deliberating the fate of former Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich. He's accused of trying to trade or see a Senate seat. Final argument from Blago's defense attorney, the ex-governor may not be, quote, "the sharpest knife from the drawer but he's not corrupt."
In Portland, Oregon, police bureaus -- the police bureau, rather, interviewed former vice president Al Gore last week after reopening an investigation that claims that he tried to sexually assault a massage therapist.
CNN affiliate KETU quote a law enforcement source who says Gore actually sat down with investigators last week. Police aren't talking, and a Gore spokeswoman had no comment.
The massage therapist is talking, though. She says Gore repeatedly groped her and made sexual advances during a 2006 session. Police initially concluded there wasn't enough evidence to file charges but reopened the case earlier this month.
And in Boston, a local gym has a message for Mel Gibson. Exercise reduces stress and anger. The Boston Sports Club is trying to cash in on the celebrity's mad rant. And the flyers have potential customers chuckling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, advertising exploits people's problem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's pretty funny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's great. Good to pick on Mel.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And hey, Mel, if you opt to hop on the treadmill, the club is offering you two months free membership.
The sound of music from an unlikely pair. Aretha Franklin and Condoleezza Rice in concert together. We'll take you on stage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Checking top stories, no survivors in a plane crash near Islamabad, Pakistan. The U.S. embassy says that two Americans were among the 152 people on board. That plane was trying to land in a heavy rainstorm.
So how do you lose $8.7 billion? That money was supposed to help rebuild Iraq but it's missing. The U.S. audit blames, quote, "weakness in the Defense Department's financial and management controls."
And a milestone that no one is celebrating. Day 100 of the Gulf oil disaster. The gusher has stopped, the damage is still being tallied. And get this, all those skimmers that had been taking in 25,000 barrels of oil a day, they barely managed to collect a single barrel on Monday.
The queen of soul and the former secretary of state making beautiful music together to raise funds for charity. Condee Rice is a classically trained pianist and she was at the keyboard in Philadelphia last night as Aretha Franklin belted out some of her most soulful tunes.
They were performing to raise money for urban children and to raise awareness about the importance of the arts.
(MUSIC)
PHILLIPS: What a duet. Well, no word yet on how much money they raised but we'll follow up.
And you won't believe what this guy gets paid to do. Smoke weed. The Colorado journalist who has risen to new highs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Some 26 million people smoke marijuana legally and illegally in the U.S. Now legal for patients to smoke medical marijuana in 14 states and it's been legal in Colorado for a decade. But you'll never believe what one man in Denver is getting paid to do.
Here is CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not only is this legal. It pays the bills.
(On camera): So you get paid to smoke pot and write about it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I get paid to smoke pot and write about it. Yes.
HARLOW (voice-over): His pen name is William Breathes and his one of the first marijuana critics in the country. We can't show you his face because his job depends on staying anonymous just like a restaurant critic.
(On camera): You can be high doing your job?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And my boss knows it.
HARLOW (voice-over): A decade after medical marijuana was legalized in Colorado. It's estimated about 2 percent of the state's population or more than 100,000 people have applied for medical marijuana licenses.
According to one Harvard economist, roughly $18 billion is spent on pot every year in the U.S. and Denver's "Westword" paper has capitalized on just that. Hiring Breathes as a pot critic who reviews the dispensaries and the quality of the marijuana they sell.
JONATHAN SHIKES, MANAGING EDITOR, DENVER WESTWORD: He has a journalism degree. He was a good writer and he could also punctuate and he could spell, which was very different than -- than all of the people who applied for the job.
HARLOW: As for Breathes, he's been smoking for 15 years to ease chronic stomach pains but now his medicine pays his mortgage. We tagged along to see for ourselves and we didn't take our cameras inside. But take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's great.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to do the cough?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to have to go with that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cool. An eight or?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'll go with an eight. Do you guys have any (INAUDIBLE)?
HARLOW (on camera): Can you show us what you got?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I got a joint, a pre-rolled joint, got some sour diesel and some really chunky, real good looking pot.
HARLOW: I can smell it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you can smell them --
HARLOW: It's like permeating the whole car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Exactly. That muskiness is something you really look for.
HARLOW: Whoo! Does that mean it's good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
HARLOW (voice-over): Back at his home office, it's time to get to work. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Load up a little bit and taste it. Try and taste the smoke as it comes out and like I was saying it has a real like woody finish. And then, you know, after a few hits of it, try and feel what type of buzz it is and what it's doing to my body medically.
HARLOW (on camera): So you know the critics would say that you just want to get high?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, definitely. And I'm not going to lie. There is -- there's a fun aspect to this medicine. But if you could see me on a morning when I'm really sick, when pot really helps me the most, it's truly medical.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: So, Poppy, do we have any read on how many jobs this has actually created or will create?
HARLOW: Other than this one guy that gets paid to smoke pot, I mean, it's pretty unbelievable.
Look, starting August 1st, Kyra, the state of Colorado is going to pass all of these regulations that makes it much tougher for dispensaries to stay in business. They're going to have to grow 70 percent of their own weed so that they can cut out a lot of this being illegally imported.
So that's when we're going to have a read on how many jobs it creates. But just to give you some perspective, Kyra, we drove down these streets in Denver, one which is nicknamed Broadsterdam for obvious reasons.
They are lined with these dispensaries. There are more dispensaries for medical marijuana in Denver. More than 200 more than there are Starbucks in that city. So do the math. A lot of jobs -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Pretty interesting story. Poppy Harlow. Appreciate you bringing it to us.
HARLOW: You got it.
PHILLIPS: All right, straight ahead, a Christian grad student told to get on board with gay sensitivity training or get out. It's a Bill of Rights fight that's pitting a counselor in training against her university.
We've got it covered from all angles.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A dubious milestone today in the Gulf oil disaster. One hundred days since 11 lives were lost, countless livelihoods were lost, and an entire ecosystem was threatened.
CNN's David Mattingly has been on this story for months and he takes us on his journey through this disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With oil spewing uncontrollably, Gulf fishermen become victims almost immediately. On just day 10, I find seafood processors in (INAUDIBLE) factory, Alabama running out of fish.
RAYMOND BARBER, BUSINESS OWNER: That's what I'm saying. We're out of business. We're at the mercy of the banks.
MATTINGLY: In Louisiana, a way of life is under siege.
(On camera): Over here. As far as the eye can see, there is like a red line of that oil going right across the Gulf of Mexico. It is endless.
(Voice-over): And in spite of defensive weapons like dispersants, skimmers and booms.
(On camera): It's getting even worse. Take a look at this. Over this way. Look at that. Solid black. Look at that.
(Voice-over): Day 29, the syrupy crude hits biologically sensitive marshes. Throughout the month of May, the containment dome insertion tube, top hat and top kill -- all of it -- failed to stop the flow of oil.
Wildlife suffers, patience falters. Day 41, BP feels the pressure.
TONY HAYWARD, BP CEO: We're sorry. We're sorry for the massive disruption it's caused their lives, and you know we -- there's no one who wants this thing over more than I do. You know, I'd love my life back.
MATTINGLY: In June, the tourist season becomes the latest victim. Day 61 I watched tar balls hit white sand Florida businesses, driving business down at least 30 percent.
(On camera): They're literally cleaning up tar balls just a few feet away from where you're sitting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and it's very sad.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): At the same time BP CEO Tony Hayward goes home for a weekend on his yacht.
(On camera): What would you like to say to Tony Hayward?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love it here and we want it to stay clean and he needs to get down here and make sure it stays this way so that we can bring our families here.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): But with no end in sight, day 65, the stress becomes too much for one fisherman to bear. Allen Kruse's suicide shows how deep the pain can go as people see the Gulf waters they love turn black with oil.
(On camera): He thought it was dead?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MATTINGLY: He said that to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MATTINGLY: And that there was no hope that the fishing was ever going to come back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not in his lifetime.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): The first bit of home doesn't come until day 87. A newly designed cap holds and the oil stops. By day 97, I find the oil is getting hard to spot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This oil is rapidly breaking down. And there's very little oil left.
MATTINGLY: But there is no celebration.
Day 99, Tony Hayward steps down as CEO. His company's legacy in the Gulf, 100 days of loss and worry with hundreds more to go.
David Mattingly, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: God, gay sensitivity, and the ethics of counseling, all colliding on a university campus in Georgia. A graduate student at Augusta State University says she was told to take gay sensitivity training or no diploma.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER KEETON, AUGUSTA STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: While I want to stay in the school counseling program, I know that I can't honestly complete the remediation plan knowing that I would have to alter my belief.
I'm not willing to and I know I can't change my biblical views.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: So Jennifer Keaton is suing her school now, saying it threatened to expel her after she refused to take part in a, quote, "remediation plan." Her attorney provided us with a copy of that plan, and it spells out attending diversity workshops, getting more exposure to the gay population, even suggesting Keaton should attend a gay pride parade, and then reflect on the experiences and write how future clients may benefit. Keaton's lawyer says this punishes free speech. But Augusta State says it doesn't discriminate, and that, quote, "The professional counselor's job is to help client clarify their current feelings and behaviors and to help them reach the goals that they have determined for themselves, not to dictate what those goals they should be, what morals they should possess or what values they should adopt."
Jennifer Keaton is backed by The Alliance Defense Fund. Attorney David French is a senior counsel for the group. He's joining us live in Nashville.
Erin Martz is the manager of ethics and professional standards for the American Counseling Association, joining us live from Washington.
And here in Atlanta, Greg Nevins, a supervising senior staff attorney for Lambda Legal, which advocates for LGBT equality.
Jeffrey (sic), let's go ahead and start with. Tell me why you believe Jennifer is being held to a different standard because of her Christian beliefs.
DAVID FRENCH, ALLIANCE DEFENSE FUND: Well, it's very clear that all she did here was express her religious views in class and expressed them outside of class. And as a result of that is being subjected to what is best described as a thought reform program. sensitivity training, reflection papers to talk about how all of this training is changing her beliefs.
And, again, this just goes back to a student engaging in constitutionally protected speech, sharing her values, sharing her faith in a classroom setting, which is absolutely constitutionally protected and outside of class. It is not the business of the state of Georgia and state officials of Georgia as to what she believes in her heart or what she says in class about her religious beliefs.
There's no allegation here that she has mistreated anyone in a counseling setting. No allegation that she has done anything that violates any valid code of ethics anywhere. She has articulated a point of view, and she has been subjected to, in essence, a thought program as a result of it.
PHILLIPS: OK, which leads me right to the code of ethics. And Erin, this is where I want to bring you in right now, because according to Section C-5 of the American Counseling Association Code of Ethics, it clearly states that counselors, quote, "do not condone or engage in discrimination based on age, culture, disability, ethnicity, race, religion, spirituality, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, marital status, partnership, language preference, socioeconomic status or any basis prescribed by law."
So, do Jennifer's beliefs violate your code of ethics, Erin?
ERIN MARTZ, MANAGER OF ETHICS & PROFESSIONAL STANDARDS, ACA: This is not an issue of thought policing or putting any restrictions on beliefs of any kind. The code of ethics is really concerned with counselors and their behaviors and how they interact with their clients and others in society. It is not an issue of their beliefs, again. The ACA code of ethics, the preamble, is quite clear and talks about embracing diversity, multicultural approaches, inclusion and embracing the uniqueness of every human being --
PHILLIPS: But Erin, Jennifer is saying she doesn't -- but Jennifer is saying, Erin, she doesn't. And correct me, David if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing from Jennifer is that she doesn't embrace homosexuality. So, Erin, I'm asking you, does this violate the code of ethics? And are these standards mandatory in order to be a certified counselor?
Erin?
MARTZ: That's an excellent question, yes. The beliefs, again -- the beliefs are not at issue here. We are not, again, trying to police beliefs. It is the behavior.
And from what I under, although I cannot talk specifically about this case, talking to others, espousing ideas about homosexuality or other beliefs is a behavior. And if that behavior goes into imposing values, then that does become an issue at that point.
PHILLIPS: And --
FRENCH: Let me interject here -
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, David.
FRENCH: -- and say that the remediation program itself talks about the effect of the remediation program on her beliefs. Her professor said they want to change her beliefs, and you're correct that the ACA code prohibits imposing values. But these counseling professors have won the gold medal in the Olympics of imposing values by trying to change her very religious beliefs.
And this is not an issue about conduct in any form of a counseling setting, anything remotely approaches a counseling setting. The ACA is a private organization. Its private rules of ethics cannot trump the First Amendment, and the First Amendment protects the right of students to express themselves inside and outside of class.
This shouldn't be a right/left issue. This shouldn't be a Christian/secular issue. This is a First Amendment issue about freedom of expression, about freedom of conscience. This has not been at any point about conduct in a counseling setting.
PHILLIPS: So, Erin, here's my question. Should she get her diploma, and will she be certified, even though she's been very outspoken about her beliefs about homosexuality?
MARTZ: Again, I cannot speak on the particulars of this case. There was a very similar case that was resolved yesterday with --
PHILLIPS: But let me ask you. But Erin, doesn't she have to -- she's got to have accreditation in order to be a counselor, right? She has to be accredited by the ACA in order to be a counselor?
MARTZ: ACA is not an accreditation body. It does have the code of ethics that is standard in most states. Most states have adopted the ACA code of ethics as their standard of the profession -
PHILLIPS: OK, then I -
MARTZ: It is not an accreditation body.
PHILLIPS: Then I should make it clear. The state accredits her, correct, but they've adopted your code of ethics.
MARTZ: Yes.
PHILLIPS: So, what I'm asking is, do you feel that she is following by the code of ethics, and should the state be able to give her her certification?
MARTZ: If a student -- not speaking about the particulars of this case because I'm not able to do so -- if a student is able to uphold the mandates of the ACA code of ethics, which include all the issues about diversity and multiculturism and imposing values, then -- that's one issue.
The remediation plan or any remediation plan that revolves around expanding one's willingness to learn about others and to make oneself -- available to differing opinions is appropriate. Again, I can't speak on this case in particular, but any diversity plan at any university counseling program would be appropriate.
PHILLIPS: OK. You are basically saying you've got to have a diversity plan. You've got to take this sensitivity training, no matter what. Is that correct? Is that fair to say?
MARTZ: It would be fair to say that --
FRENCH: She took a diversity class and got a good grade on it. This is an extra diversity sensitivity training requirement imposed just on her, not on other students, because of her religious beliefs. All of the students received diversity training, and she did quite well in the class. But they singled her out.
PHILLIPS: OK, so Erin, let me ask you this. Erin, you are saying you can't comment on this case specifically.
Let's say it's any case, okay? And a student like Jennifer is speaking out, and she's told she has got to take an extra course, something else that nobody else has to take. Is that necessary in order to -- do you have to do that in order to get a diploma and be accredited by the state?
MARTZ: Remediation plans and the ability of counselor educators to administer mediation plans to students as they see fit is in the code of ethics. And it may involve any number of different kinds of training. It may involve more time working with theories or working with children or whatever it is that the counselor educator feels is going to be lacking and making that person an effective counselor and able to work with all populations, which is really at the basis of counseling.
PHILLIPS: Got it. So bottom line, to be accredited by the state, you've got to follow the code of ethics.
Greg, I got to get you to weigh in here. Sorry, because I'm trying to clarify this. It's an interesting discussion here trying to weed through all of the details. But let me ask you, Greg, your concerns to having someone with Jennifer's views as a counselor.
GREGORY NEVINS, LAMBDA LEGAL: Well, the problem is that, you know, many people, especially young people when they're in the coming out process or questioning process, are looking for, you know, a sympathetic and understanding ear. And to have somebody who is going to introduce their value system in a negative way can be extremely damaging.
And it doesn't really matter whether that person, whether that counselor, is motivated by their religious beliefs or whether they're just an anti-gay bigot. The net result on the person who is struggling with this is that they're at a very vulnerable position, and at this most vulnerable state, they're being -- this condemnation is being visited on them or they are being shunned in some way and being indicated to them that there's something wrong. And I think that can be very psychologically damaging, and I think that's something that needs to be addressed.
And I think it's proper for Augusta State to make sure that's not the situation, and there's nothing wrong with that.
PHILLIPS: So David, let me ask you this. David, let me ask you this. So, let's say Jennifer becomes a counselor, and she wants to counsel kids. And a child comes to her and says, "Miss Jennifer, I have these feelings. I'm not sure what to do about it. I think I'm gay. I need your help." What would she say to that child?
FRENCH: Well, a couple of things. Every single counseling situation is different, and Jennifer has told the counseling department repeatedly is going to be able to uphold the valid codes of ethics of the American Counseling Association. Those codes that are valid and legally applicable to her. There's no allegation here she has done anything wrong in a counseling setting, none whatsoever. She's just articulated views in class and outside of class --
PHILLIPS: But what if that child comes to her as a counselor and is seeking her help? Is she going to say, "Sorry, I think, you know, it's sad you're gay, and I just can't help you out?"
FRENCH: She will respond in an ethical and appropriate fashion to that student.
And let me flip this around. You have a counseling department that is ruthlessly attempting to cleanse Christian belief from its students. Let's suppose you have a Christian student coming in for counseling. This counseling department has imposed its values, violating their own code of ethics on these students, telling them they have to change their religious beliefs, that their religious beliefs are wrong --
PHILLIPS: Greg, I'm seeing you want to weigh in. Go ahead, Greg.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVINS: First off, that's ridiculous. Is there any evidence that Augusta State has taken a different position towards an anti-gay person who is not basing it on their religious beliefs? Because that would be religious discrimination. If she were being singled out but someone else who has said, "I don't want to deal with gay people because I think they're awful and that has nothing to do with my religion." That would be religious discrimination.
But this isn't. What they're trying to say is --
FRENCH: She has never said --
NEVINS: -- we want to make sure there is a proper counseling environment for people in a vulnerable situation --
FRENCH: She has never said she is unwilling to counsel anyone.
NEVINS: And you've used a lot of cagey words like "codes that are legally applicable to her and those that are valid," and you've already said that you consider a lot of those not to be valid.
But the fact of the matter is, even though Augusta State is a public institution, they are also running a professional -- trying to train people for professional accreditation. They have a responsibility, and it's been upheld by the courts, including a case that you lost on Monday in Michigan that they have a responsibility to train people properly to be good counselors.
FRENCH: So, what you're saying is that -- just her expression of a religious belief is going to be enough to allow her to be singled out for extra training --
NEVINS: Not at all.
FRENCH: -- over and above everyone else, which happened here.
NEVINS: She's also said (INAUDIBLE) extra therapy is proper.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVINS: Is that not true?
FRENCH: No, that is not true. That is an allegation, a hearsay allegation they used to impose a remediation program.
NEVINS: But the university has a responsibility to make sure as part of this process that that's not the case --
FRENCH: The university is a public institution, and they have a responsibility for upholding the First Amendment.
(CROSSTALK)
NEVINS: They're running a degree program. They're training professional counselors --
FRENCH: Are they not bound by the first amendment?
NEVINS: What they're bound by - no, you don't have a First Amendment right to say in response to your science exam, how did the world come into being? You don't have the right to relay -
(CROSSTALK)
NEVINS: You have a right to have that belief, but you have to actually put down the answer to the exam, and if they say she doesn't have the right to have her belief system, then that's a different issue. But if --
FRENCH: That's what they say.
NEVINS: Well, I don't --
FRENCH: You're in agreement, then, because they say she does not have a right to this belief and she has to change her beliefs.
PHILLIPS: Okay, Greg --
NEVINS: Well, I think Erin would back me up -
PHILLIPS: Final thought, Greg.
NEVINS: I think Erin would back me up that her belief system is supposed to be put to one side, so I mean, I think that she should - I think it should be the case --
PHILLIPS: Why don't we -- why don't we stop there? Erin, is that true? would you agree with that?
MARTZ: In the counseling profession, as in the medical profession, the needs of the client supersede the needs of the counselor --
PHILLIPS: There you go, bottom line.
MARTZ: So, yes.
PHILLIPS: David French, Erin Martz --
FRENCH: Bottom line is the First Amendment, I'm sorry to say.
PHILLIPS: Well, I tell you what. We will definitely follow the case. We will bring the three of you three back. I appreciate you three very much for the discussion. Thank you.
MARTZ: Thanks. NEVINS: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: And as always, we want to know what you think about the story. Go to CNN.com/kyra and sound off. Apparently, I'm being told, the blog has completely lit up. We hope to get through all of these comments and read as many as we can a little later in the hour.
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PHILLIPS: There are a few things that conjure up images of summer relaxation like kicking on the beach somewhere, but how do you know which is a slice of heaven and which is a sliver of hell? Let's try to get some answers now from CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras. She's got a new list of the best and worst beaches in the U.S.
Jacqui?
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Kyra. It has to do with whether or not the water is healthy, can possibly make you sick. It's the Natural Resources Defense Council. They've been putting out this list now for about 20 years, and this year, they're finding out that the cases of infection from recreational water use has been on the rise for the past few decades, and seven percent of all their samples violate the standards.
So, there's a lot of contamination out there, and most of that has to do with the weather. The more runoff and rainfall you have, the more contaminants and sewage that get into the water. And you know, a lot of beaches have problems.
And one of the worst areas for overall violations happens to be in the Great Lakes. This is a study from 2009, by the way, and does not include the oil impact.
All right. Let's get to it and show you the key. This is a five- star rating system, and they grade this on a number of factors based on water quality, for example, how things have been in the past, how often you dot the testing, whether or not they issue advisories promptly, and whether or not they post them online.
All right. Let's get to it! Who wants to know is your beach one of the best or one of the worst? This is just a couple of them, by the way. We did top five for you.
Hampton State -- State Beach Park up in New Hampshire is on the top. Gulf Shores public beach, by the way, five stars but because of the oil spill right now, they have had a number of closings and problems. Huntington City Beach over here in California as well as Laguna Beach in California.
What about the worst? Edgewater Beach up in Maine. Long Sand Beach, Coney Island in New York, one of the worst. And Myrtle Beach - this one kind of surprised me a little bit, Kyra - that also one of the worst. You can find a complete report and beach statuson nrdc.org.
PHILLIPS: That does surprise me! How many people do we know who goes there for vacation?
JERAS: A lot of them. Might want to hit the pool instead.
PHILLIPS: Yes, no kidding. Thanks, Jacqui.
Summertime for school, kids hanging out and playing ball. But not for one special group of African-Americans students. They have been picked to participate in a summer program that could change their lives and one day, maybe yours, too.
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PHILLIPS: The great African-American scholar, W.E.B. DuBois coined the phrase, "The talented ten." And he wrote of the importance of building leadership among the most able ten percent of blacks in an effort to create future leaders.
In today's "Building Up America," CNN's Allan Chernoff shows us how that philosophy is being put into practice at Princeton University.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Summer in the city, playing ball, hanging out. Getting in trouble? Not Robert Emmanuel. This 15-year-old from Newark, New Jersey is a W.E.B. DuBois scholar this summer, in a different world 40 miles south on the campus of Princeton University.
The African-American scholar, W.E.B. DuBois wrote, "the most important thing to remember is this, to be ready at any moment to give up what you are for what you might become."
For five weeks, the DuBois Scholars Institute takes promising African-American students from underprivileged backgrounds and mixes them with equally bright black students from wealthier families, bringing more than 50 students to Princeton University, to classrooms where their intellect can blossom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What else are we thinking about as it relates to BP and their obligations?
ROBERT EMMANUEL, W.E.B. DUBOIS SCHOLAR: It really changed my thinking about myself, by bringing out a new me which I thought -- which I never knew was there.
CHERNOFF: The institute is no summer vacation. Classes start at 8:00 and go all day long. There are mid terms, finals, term papers and weekends, they're reserved for field trips and formal study sessions.
Psychology professor Sherl Boone is putting DuBois' "Talented Ten" concept into practice, hoping to develop tomorrow's black leaders by building students' confidence and intellectual skills. PROF. SHERL BOONE, W.E.B. DUBOIS SCHOLARS' INSTITUTE: Most of the resources had been focused primarily on those who viewed themselves as being more victimized by the conditions of racial discrimination.
DuBois was founded with the hope that we could begin to develop those who I believe have the greatest potential for solving some of the problems that confronted us.
CHERNOFF: Today, Robert's class is studying the BP oil crisis and business ethics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) I believe that BP should try to involve other oil companies, because they're also affected by this, too.
CHERNOFF: The institute wants these students to remember that they can be leaders who will take on the nation's most challenging problems.
EMMANUEL: Going back to school, I'm more prepared. I feel as though I can do anything in school, I can get straight A's. I can get a 4.5 GPA.
CHERNOFF: Allan Chernoff, CNN, Princeton, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: You heard the debate right here just a few minutes ago. A Georgia grad student told her to take gay sensitivity training - well, the school actually told her to gay sensitivity training or basically get out of the counseling program. They wouldn't give her diploma.
We're talking about Jennifer Keaton, and she's now suing Augusta State University, saying it threatened to expel her after she refused to take part in this remediation plan. The lawsuit says the Christian student was singled out after she voiced disagreement about the gay and lesbian lifestyle. But Augusta State says it doesn't discriminate, and that a counselor's job is not to dictate what morals their clients should possess.
Many of you are weighing in right now. This is what Chuck says. "Remediation plan is vital to the counselor education. Jenn must have shown other, quote, "noncounselor-like" behaviors in order to have a remediation program created. The faculty has the ethical obligation to not only protect the profession of counseling, but to the communities in which we live."
And this is from Gail, "Jennifer is to be applauded for her integrity. Are therapists expected to be conduits between their clients and political correctness? Is it the political correctness or psychological research and thus practice that guides the clinician? There are man murky issues, and to withhold an earned degree because of political correctness is a travesty."
And Cary writes, "As counselors, we must be able to put aside our biases. This is required by our code of ethics. She does not need to change her beliefs. However, her own personal beliefs do not have a place in the counseling office."
Remember, we want to hear from you. Just log onto CNN.com/kyra and share your comments.
Sure appreciate you weighing in. We'll see you back here tomorrow. NEWSROOM with Tony Harris picks up in just a moment.
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