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Arizona Immigration Battle Continues; Rangel Ethics Trial About to Start; Oil's Impact on Fishing Industry; Crack Vs. Cocaine Penalties; From Polluting Gas to Gasoline
Aired July 29, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: I'll be looking forward to that. Good to see you. My friend Tony Harris taking off for the afternoon. I'll take over for a little while.
I'm Ali Velshi. I'm going to be with you for the next two hours today and every weekday. We're going to take every topic we cover a step further. We're going to try and give you a level of detail that will help you make important decisions about where you travel, how you spend your money, what you put out on the Internet, who you vote for.
Let's get started. Here's what I've got on the rundown.
Tony was just talking about this, Arizona's new immigration law. The day after a judge blocked key parts of it from taking effect. But that is not stopping protests. We're going live to Phoenix where demonstrators are venting their anger at the law and the controversial sheriff of Maricopa County, Joe Arpaio.
Plus, let's have a different look at Arizona's law, its impact on our neighbor to the South. I'm going to speak with the governor of the Mexican border state of Sonora. I'm going to get his take on this immigration law and on Mexico's war on drugs.
And finally, taking CO2, carbon dioxide, the bad stuff that pollutes our air and converting it into gasoline. I'm going to talk to a pioneer behind this technology that could reduce our addiction to oil.
But, first, let's talk about Arizona's new immigration law. It takes effect today. It's a bit watered down after a decision by a judge yesterday. District Court Judge Susan Bolton, she blocked some of the toughest parts of the law.
Now, let me just tell you what's out there. What's happening and what isn't. Here's what's blocked -- one of the most controversial parts of it: police cannot question immigration status based on a reasonable suspicion, people will not be required to carry immigration papers around, and there's no longer a legal ban on immigrants who are looking for work.
What did go into effect? Well a lot of the law went into effect today: a crackdown on harboring and transporting illegal immigrants, and sanctuary cities have been cut out. It's also a crime for state officials to refrain from enforcing federal immigration laws, and day laborers can hold up traffic to try to pick up work.
Now, Arizona governor, Jan Brewer, is promising a quick appeal of this law. She wanted to have her people look it over first, look over the ruling and see what they're going to do.
But CNN senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, who's been following this very closely, said the state is going to have a tough time getting that hold on those controversial parts of the law overturned. The case is likely to go before the Supreme Court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: It's very hard to imagine this case ending up anywhere else. This is why we have the Supreme Court. This is a big issue. It deals with fundamental constitutional law, what's the responsibility of the state, what's the responsibility of the federal government on a very important and controversial area. It seems to cry out for the Supreme Court's attention.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, protesters of this immigration law say their fight is far from over -- even though some of the most controversial parts of the law have been struck down for the time being.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County says he is going to keep arresting illegal immigrants -- whether or not there is this new law.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is outside the sheriff's office in Phoenix where a protest is heating up.
Thelma, what's the situation?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ali, I can tell you, there are several hundred people right now. And if you look right here on this main thoroughfare that goes right through downtown Phoenix, in front of Sheriff Arpaio's office, you can see hundreds of people who have already gathered in the streets. They say they are here engaged in acts of civil disobedience.
We're going to try to get a little bit closer so you can see what they're doing. They're holding American flags. They're chanting in the street.
We've heard the sheriff say that he will not tolerate any disturbance of the peace. He will arrest people if he has to. He says he will stop them from doing this.
Now, we haven't seen the sheriff out here. We have seen police in riot gear who've walked around -- although things seem to be fairly peaceful right now.
Joining me is the Reverend Morales (ph).
You're here from Colorado. You brought many people and you are going to be one of the people who is willing to be arrested. What is your message? And why are you going to do this?
REVEREND MORALES: Our campaign, national campaign, is standing on the side of love. And we're here to support others -- to support the rights of immigrant families, not be torn apart, to not be targeted inappropriately by Sheriff Arpaio and these forces of fear and ignorance that are -- that are pushing this legislation.
GUTIERREZ: Now, I noticed that many of you actually broke off from the main group, you were given instructions by attorneys. What did the attorneys tell you about the consequences of being arrested?
REVEREND MORALES: I'm not sure what the consequences are because we really can't control that. We're being briefed on how to behave. It's completely nonviolent, civil disobedience. We don't want any kind of physical confrontation at all.
GUTIERREZ: The plan, though, is to sit right in the middle of Washington Boulevard, which is a disturbance to the people who are trying to move about downtown?
REVEREND MORALES: Well, what we are trying to do is call attention to the -- to the actions of this sheriff and this department, that has been targeting people for years -- completely inappropriately, violating the rights of people. That's the great disturbance to the peace that's happening in Arizona.
GUTIERREZ: Judge Bolton issued a temporary injunction against those active provisions in the law. It's surprising to many that you'd actually be protesting today, when maybe some might think that you'd be celebrating.
REVEREND MORALES: Well, we are celebrating that ruling. It's a step forward. But, also, the sheriff has said that's not going to affect his actions. That he's going -- he's going right ahead. So, that's what we're protesting here, is the outrageous violations of human rights by the sheriff.
GUTIERREZ: All right.
And then several dozen, Ali, say that they are willing to be arrested -- they're going to sit in the street. We understand that they're going to be issued three warnings. After those three warnings, police will move in. In fact, if we pan over, you can see they're walking up right now and they are planning to move these people out of this street -- Ali.
VELSHI: Thelma, in most cities across the United States, if a demonstration is planned, typically, they have to apply for a permit and a permit is granted. Does it seem a little out of proportion that Sheriff Arpaio is going to send his police officers to arrest people at a peaceful demonstration?
GUTIERREZ: Well you know, the sheriff has said, Ali, that they have the right to protest. But they don't have the right to disrupt traffic and to be a disturbance to the citizens here of Phoenix. And so, he says that he will do what it takes. He's already warned them. He said he will make those arrests if he has to.
Phoenix police -- let's pan right over, Mike -- you can see Phoenix police right now walking down the sidewalk in preparation for those arrests.
VELSHI: OK. Thelma, we're going to stay on this. You'll keep us posted. Obviously, we'll have a direct line to you if there are any developments between this crowd and the police. Let our producers know and we'll come back. We'll keep an eye on it.
Thelma Gutierrez -- in front of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office, the sheriff of Maricopa County, where Phoenix is. The sheriff has said, notwithstanding the hold that was put on some of those parts of the law, he is still going to arrest people if they -- if they disrupt traffic in front of his office. We will keep a very close eye on that to see if that hits up.
Charlie Rangel said he hasn't had a bad day in 60 years. In fact, the title of his book is, "I Haven't Had a Bad Day Since." He was talking about his adventures in North Korea. He's not so sure about that today.
We're live on Capitol Hill, a rare public session of the House Ethics Committee hearing about Charlie Rangel -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: We're going to keep an eye on what's going on in Phoenix, outside of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office. That's where Thelma Gutierrez is. That's where we were just talking to her a few moments ago.
Let me just recap what's happening there. There are a number of people continuing to protest S.B. 1070, the law that went into effect today. Now, you'd think a lot of these people would not be protesting because some of the most offensive parts of that law have been put on hold.
But Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio said notwithstanding the parts of the law that have been put on hold, he is going to continue to make arrests of illegal immigrants as he sees fit. And that's what this group of people are protesting. He has said they'll get three warnings and if they don't clear out, he's going to start making arrests.
And we have seen police starting to assemble. Nothing confrontational yet, but we've seen police starting to assemble. You can see them there in the shot.
We're going to keep a very, very close eye on that. We've got crews on the ground. And Thelma Gutierrez is there.
If anything develops in Maricopa County, in Phoenix, downtown Phoenix, we will bring it to you immediately.
Another big story happening right now on Capitol Hill and this is the ethics trial of Charlie Rangel, representative from New York, long-time representative from New York. He's been in office for over 40 years.
This is -- it's very rare that the House Ethics Committee actually holds a public trial. That is about to get under way.
Brianna Keilar is on Capitol Hill with the story that has so many -- there's so many developments to it.
The first thing we want to worry about, Brianna, is that this is going to be an embarrassing conversation for everybody involved, including a lot of House Democrats who don't want this to become a trial. And that means that everybody involved is working towards some sort of a deal to avoid this going to a trial.
What -- where are we on that?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and our producer, Evan Glass, just spoke with Rangel himself and asked, "Is there a deal?" And Rangel himself said, "I have no idea."
I mean, obviously, Democratic leaders would hope that there could be a deal because they want to avoid this very public spectacle and in this election climate where it's already tough to be a Democrat. They certainly don't want this ethical pall cast over things because of what would go on here.
Today, we're awaiting a hearing and we understand it's been delayed, maybe about 40 minutes, Ali, because there are some votes now on the House floor. But off to my right, I'm actually watching, I believe, members of the ethics committee who are coming out of a room. They've been meeting in a room where they're approving, really, a written report of many pages -- maybe 40 pages or so -- that detail the violations specifically that Rangel is facing.
We're going to have the hearing, which is a public airing of the violations he's facing. But this may be one of the most important things is this report they're approving, because it's going to be very specific, very nitty-gritty. And, Ali, this is such a secretive process, that it's going to give us a lot of insight into it.
VELSHI: All right. As soon as you get that, you're going to take a look at it.
KEILAR: Exactly.
VELSHI: Here's what we think we know. You're going to get some details. But here's what we think we know: Charlie Rangel is a Korean War hero. In fact, he wrote a book about how he was -- his activities in the Korean War. He was actually awarded a Bronze Star for his work during the Korean War.
He has been re-elected. He's a 20-term congressman from Harlem and, in fact, defeated somebody who had ethics violations leveled against them more than 40 years ago, Adam Clayton Powell. He's the -- until March, he was the chairman of the ways and means committee, which is one of the most powerful committees at Congress.
And he -- we believe that the allegations against him are as follows: one is that he failed to report income from a villa in the Dominican Republic.
Number two, that he was leasing four rent-controlled apartments in Harlem -- generally speaking, it's hard to get even one of those and he apparently had four. He denies that.
He allegedly used his position to benefit a been factor of the Charles Rangel Center for Public Service. And he denies that as well.
We'll find out when Brianna gets that report, those 40 pages, about what he actually is accused of doing. He did say, by the way, you know, he survived a Chinese attack in North Korea.
Let's listen to his words about how he -- how he's feeling about what's going on right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Sixty years ago I survived a Chinese attack in North Korea. And as a result, I wrote a book that having survived that, I hadn't had a bad day since. Today, I have to reassess that statement. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: If you didn't hear that clearly, he said, "I haven't had a bad day since. Today I have to reassess that statement" -- speaks a little bit to how Charlie Rangel is feeling right now.
I want to bring in Errol Louis. He's a name that may be familiar to you. He's certainly famous, he's well-known to people in New York. He's a CNN contributor and a "New York Daily News" columnist joining us from New York.
I have to tell you, Errol, that is a different Charlie Rangel than I think I've ever seen.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, very true. He is known for being sort of jovial. I mean, he really has lived out the title of that book. It's hazard to find him in a bad mood. Sometimes he's angry, sometimes he's combative. But rarely does he look like sir couple stances might be getting the better of him. That little clip you played certainly suggested that.
VELSHI: All right. Let's talk about could happen to Charlie Rangel. There are a range of things that could happen. Number one, we're watching very closely to see if a deal is cut -- because neither he nor Democrats in Congress want this to go through.
But it could be anything. Nothing could happen to him, he could get a letter, a reprimand, he could get a formal censure. Or like Representative James Traficant, in 2002, he could be thrown out of Congress.
What's likely to happen? And as long as he's not thrown out of Congress, what happens to him in the next election?
LOUIS: Well, let's be clear. What he's facing, even hypothetically, is nowhere near like what Traficant faced. I mean, Traficant had to spend years in prison.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Right. He was convicted in criminal court as well.
LOUIS: Right, exactly. So no prosecutor is looking at anything like that in this case.
But, look, his election is maybe not guaranteed. But his 21st term, which will essentially be determined by the Democratic primary, it falls a little bit more than 40 days from right now.
He's in good shape. He's ahead in the polls. He's way ahead in fundraising, 100 percent name recognition. There's no reason to think that the voters are going to turn him out.
So, the question is, if he's not facing prosecution, if the voters are going to re-elect him to a 21st term, what's the worst that Congress could do to him? Well, maybe they're going to embarrass him, maybe they could strip him of seniority -- that would be real serious.
Would they kick him out? I think not on these charges. I mean, the ones that that you read are probably the most serious ones. There's one other, which is failing to report his income properly on his disclosure form.
You take all of that together and unless there's something new and seriously damaging, and what's in this ethics report, I don't see them stripping him of his seat.
VELSHI: There's -- you know, depending on how you look at this, there's some people who think he's the face of corruption in a caucus that talked about not being corrupt, with Nancy Pelosi saying she wanted to clear all of that out of Congress. To a lot of people in Harlem, this guy does remain something of a hero.
LOUIS: Oh, absolutely. Oh, no, he's -- he's enormously popular in part because he still comes out to community meetings and he'll sit there for two or three hours, you know, and he'll shake hands with you on the street. He's not a remote by any means.
He is a guy who likes to go on local television to talk about local politics. He's the dean of the New York delegation, so the other members look up to him. He's known to have provided help, even across the aisle to the Republican members of the delegation here in New York. So, he's -- he's not a warm and fuzzy figure, but he is certainly beloved by his colleagues in the political world. And he's actually pretty well liked by most journalists. He's usually good for a quip or a quote, doesn't run away, even -- even when things are going against him.
VELSHI: Errol, good to see you as always. Errol Louis is a CNN contributor and a "New York Daily News" columnist.
We're going to stay on this story. Brianna Keilar is waiting to see what the report is that is coming out from the ethics committee, and whether or not a deal is struck.
We're keeping an eye on that. We're keeping an eye on the situation in Phoenix, outside Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office. We're watching a lot of things for you.
Hey, listen, death and taxes, those are two things that you know you're going to face. Why next year the tax on your estate might be going sky-high. We're going to tell you what's going on -- as soon as I come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: They say nothing is certain except death and taxes. Well, we've got a double-whammy right now -- the estate tax which went to zero this year looks to be coming back in full force next year.
Patricia Wu joins us from New York with the latest on this.
Hey, Patricia.
PATRICIA WU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Ali.
Well, you know, as you know, the estate tax is part of the Bush tax cuts. They're all set to expire on December 31st. The issue is there's no consensus on what to do from Congress. So, for someone who died in 2009, any amount in the estate above $3.5 million was taxed at 45 percent.
This year, as you said, it's nothing. But if Congress doesn't act -- next year, the estate roars back with a 55 percent rate. That affects estates above $1 million -- Ali.
VELSHI: All right. So, the bottom line is if you are -- if you're super-rich, you're concerned about this. But the argument against this estate tax coming back is that it actually affects a lot of people who aren't super-rich. In fact, there are lots of people, if you add up your -- the value of your assets, your 401(k), things like that, you're easily topping $1 million.
WU: Absolutely. Also, with housing prices in California, Connecticut and New York, appreciating a lot in the last 40 years, a lot of estates have been pushed past the $1 million-mark. Also, small businesses and farms -- a lot of people say that if a child inherited their parents' business, they may have to sell that business in order to pay that tax bill.
VELSHI: Which is particularly hard when -- when the economy is not come roaring back, because if you have to sell something, not at the best price you can get for it, you may just have to sell it just to pay that tax, and not be able to continue that family business.
WU: Exactly. That's one fl arguments as well, is that the recovery is already sluggish. If you impose this tax, what does that do?
VELSHI: All right. What's the -- what's the outlook on, in terms of either bringing -- either continuing this repeal of the tax or it coming back in full force?
WU: Well, you know, the debate rages on. But it's probably not likely that anything is going to be done until after the mid-term elections.
VELSHI: Right.
WU: And surprisingly, there is a group of super-rich people who are pushing for the estate tax to be reinstated. And some of their reasons, as I mentioned before, the sluggish economic recovery and also, they said that it would spur charitable giving, since, you know, those requests are tax-deductible, so it reduces your exposure to that estate tax.
And for more of that, if you'd like to know more, you can always look at this article, the super rich saying, "Tax my estate, please."
VELSHI: If that is counterintuitive, but it's worth the read.
Thanks very much, Patricia. Good to see you.
WU: Absolutely.
VELSHI: All right. Be sure to watch "YOUR MONEY" this weekend and every weekend, Saturdays at 1:00 p.m. Eastern and Sundays at 3:00 p.m. Eastern, where we go deeper into a lot of these issues that affect your money.
Reaction from the other side of the border to Arizona's immigration law, I'll be talking to the governor of the state of Sonora, which is right on other side of the border from Arizona. How are they preparing for immigrants crossing back and how are they dealing with that ever-present drug problem in Mexico.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: OK. Before we go to the governor of the state of Sonora, I want to go Arizona, Maricopa County, Phoenix, downtown. Thelma Gutierrez is there in front of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office where we've got protesters and we've got police.
What's going on? GUTIERREZ: Ali, I can tell you that we're out on the street right in front of where the protesters are gathering. And you see the Phoenix police right now -- they backed the crowd all the way back.
And there are several people who are sitting in the middle of the street. You can maybe see them through this crowd. But they're standing defiantly in the middle of Broadway, and that's right in front of Joe Arpaio's office. And they say they're not moving. These people say that they're prepared to be arrested.
And you take a look right now and see the police actually closing in on the crowd. They said that they will issue three warnings. If these people don't move, they will be arrested. And I can tell you that, so far, I'm told, four to five people have already been arrested for staging in front of the courthouse, also out here on Broadway.
So, several hundred people here, Ali. The rest of them are fairly peaceful, although it is quite laugh because of the rally.
So, anyway, you see the police right now -- they're closing in on the three people who are standing right on the middle of Broadway.
And many of these people are clergy members who came from Connecticut and New York, and Colorado. They're members of the Unitarian Church.
And they're standing out here and they say they're willing to take the chance. They're willing to take those consequences -- Ali.
VELSHI: And, Thelma, we have an aerial shot of that that you were looking at in the small box. We've just taken -- we've just seen the police take further steps toward those few people who are standing there.
They appeared to now -- I don't know if you've got the same view that I've got. I see what appeared to be, three -- is it three people or more? And the police in front of them. They've taken a further step. Now, they're just aligned in front of them.
What's likely to happen next, Thelma? Are these the people that the police say they're going to arrest?
GUTIERREZ: Yes, that is correct, Ali. They have told these people. They warned them. In fact, Sheriff Joe Arpaio warned them yesterday. He says --
VELSHI: Yes, here it comes.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTIERREZ: -- we will have you arrested.
VELSHI: Here it comes.
GUTIERREZ: Yes, they're they are. VELSHI: The police are moving in on them. You can see one person being handcuffed. They're putting their hands up, being prepared to be handcuffed. One has been taken away. It appears that police are moving in now.
You're seeing this as well, Thelma?
GUTIERREZ: Yes, I am, Ali. In fact, you can see these people, they're holding hands. They have their hands in the air. As I have mentioned, they're members of various churches who have stood here together saying they are here to protest Sheriff Joe Arpaio's immigration sweeps.
And they also say that they're here -- that they're happy that the police, or that the judge issued an injunction against the active provisions of the law. But they say it's not permanent, and so, they will continue to protest, to make sure to keep the pressure upon Washington to pass comprehensive immigration reform, Ali.
VELSHI: Thelma, for so long, we have seen protests about this law, about S.B. 1070, which took effect today, with a lot of main provisions which that were upsetting people actually out of the law. Is this a protest very much likely out -- OK, we're now seeing a second person who appears to be being arrested. One has already been arrested. The second person is being handcuffed right now.
Is this the same group? Is this a smaller protest? Because you asked one of the organizers here -- why they're protesting if one of the main provisions, or the main provision that they were upset about have been removed from the law, or at least been put on hold?
GUTIERREZ: They are some of the same people. Some of the local groups like Fuente (ph) and some of the other local groups.
But you also, Ali, what is different about this group, of this protest is that I've talked to people who are here from the east coast. They've come from all over the country to gather here. They say, to show solidarity with the immigrant communities.
Now, I will tell you that the sheriff did say that he would absolutely -- you know, not tolerate this kind of behavior. Now, some of these people say they're out here. They are happy about those active provisions being struck down. But on the other hand, they say that Arizona has passed other anti-immigrant laws, like the ban on bilingual education.
VELSHI: Yes.
GUTIERREZ: The ban on ethnic studies. They say they're here to protest those things as well.
VELSHI: OK. Thelma, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to ask you to hang on, keep an eye on this. You got a great vantage point.
We're going to keep that aerial picture up. We've seen two arrests so far. And it seems likely that the remaining three people there will be arrested.
We're going to squeeze that back for a moment and I'm going to bring in the governor of Sonora, the state of Sonora in Mexico. Governor Guillermo Padres Elias is joining us now. I'm also joined by Rafael Romo, our senior Latin American affairs editor here.
Governor, thank you very much for joining us on this, and I want to first get your comments on the developments in Arizona, the developments leading up to this with SB 1070, and then the development yesterday with the judge, U.S. district court judge striking down some of the more controversial parts of that bill. What are your thoughts?
GOV. GUILLERMO PADRES ELIAS, SONORA, MEXICO: Thank you, Ali. Greetings to you and all the people watching CNN from Sonora.
Of course, I have to start saying that this bill, SB 1070, obviously puts a lot of tension to a border town, especially in Sonora, which we have a very strong relationship with Arizona and it's a very serious issue for us. The immigration problem and the steps that have been taken by the legislatures and the governor of Arizona in this issue.
We, of course, have been talking about this issue for a lot of years, since they started with these bills that are making legal, making it a very serious crime for people who hire immigrants from Mexico there in the state and now in this bill and other bills they want to pass that are not going do recognize the citizenship of the Mexican newborns that are born in the United States. That is a very serious issue for us and that puts a lot of tension.
I know that in the discussion of this bill, the SB 1070, and the further advances we know is that the judge, Susan Bolton, has taken some issues, some sections out of it and they're not going to go into effect and we celebrate that. But the real thing is we're not discussing the bottom issue, and the issue is that we have to get into a real immigration reform.
We have a problem between the United States and the immigrants and we've got to go into the real issue. It's got to go to the Hill. It has to go to the lawmakers and to the senators in the United States. There has to be in the agenda. The political agenda. And that is a very serious issue because if we don't go into the bringing real, real effects or real solutions to the problem, this is going to divide us, this is going to put a racial issues and this is going to put a lot of tensions between the United States and the immigrants and in this case, with the Mexican citizens and the Sonora citizens.
So I think that we celebrate what happened, the decision that the judge, Susan Bolton, had in taking some sections out. But I think what our -- the manifestors (ph) we're looking at in Phoenix and other parts in Mexico and the United States is that we've got to go into the issue, the real issue, the bottom of the problem which is immigration reform.
So -- yes?
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Governor Padres, it's Rafael Romo here at CNN.
ELIAS: I hear you, yes.
ROMO: I want to ask you, we understand your government was getting ready for -- getting ready for a massive, for massive deportations since it was reported in one of the local newspaper there in Sonora. Tell us in terms of shelters, in terms of preparation, what has your government done to prepare for this? What's the situation in Sonora right now?
ELISA: Well we're very coordinated with the federal government, we're very coordinated with the municipal government, and the three orders of government are working together to making -- we have shelters, enough shelters in Nogales and in La Prieda (ph) and in San Luis in order to receive people if that happens.
If a lot of immigrants come down to Sonora either to stay or in halfway -- take it as a halfway house to get to their points of origin, we're ready. We have the shelters, we have enough people so we can feed them. We have medical supplies. We have transportation means. So we can provide the transportation for the people that might come.
But I think that's not going to happen with the recent developments and what the judge has ruled, the Judge Bolton. I don't think that's going to happen. We haven't had any measurements of a lot of people coming down to Sonora. We don't have any, any indicator that is that will say that in the next days we will have a lot of people coming down.
But we're ready. The three orders of government, we're ready to receive them and to attend them and to aid them in getting to their places of origin.
VELSHI: Governor, we could talk to you a lot more on this and we'd like to, but we have to share you with our colleagues over at CNN International, so I'll say goodbye to you for now. If we get a chance to talk to you again, thank you very much for being with us, Governor Padres of Sonora.
Thank you also to Rafael Romo for joining us for this.
As you can see there, that screen is KNXV, our affiliate in Phoenix. There are more arrests taking place right now of people protesting in front of the office of Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He has said his arrests of illegal immigrants will continue and this group is protesting those activities. They have the blocked the street in front of the courthouse. Governor Sheriff Arpaio has said if that continues, he will continue to make arrests. We've already seen a few of those.
We will keep on that story, I do want to go to another story that we're following right now on Capitol Hill, Brianna Keilar and the House Ethics Committee looking into the ethics violations of Charles Rangel, the representative from New York.
Brianna what have you got?
KEILAR: Ali, CNN has just learned that Charles Rangel is close to a deal with the Ethics Committee according to a New York democrat who doesn't want to be named, a member of the House of Representatives, a democrat who spoke to our Deirdre Walsh, our House side producer. So this is coming again from a New York democrat who says that Rangel is close to a settlement, to an agreement with the Ethics Committee.
As you know, we have been waiting for this hearing to begin. It's been slightly delayed by votes. Now the question, Ali, and honestly, we don't have the answer to this, is how this might affect this timing of this hearing. We're trying to figure this out.
Obviously what democratic leaders, and certainly Charles Rangel wants, but at what cost, was to avoid this public spectacle. And now the question will be how close are they to a hearing or how close are they to a settlement, and if they do indeed reach a settlement here shortly, is that in time to maybe avoid a public airing of the ethics violations he faces. Or certainly maybe the more important question would be, would it enable him to avoid a long protracted ethics trial that we were thinking would start possibly in September and stretch weeks, very uncomfortably close to the midterm elections where democrats are really facing some tough odds, Ali.
VELSHI: OK, close to a deal. The trial is not starting yet, the hearing is not starting yet. Brianna stay on the story. Let us know any other developments, we'll come right back to you.
Brianna Keilar on Capitol Hill.
We're also watching the impact of the Gulf oil spill on an entire industry that makes its livelihood out of the sea. We're now 101 days into the Gulf oil disaster and many in the seafood business still cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. We'll talk to one them straight ahead.
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STU SCHEER, LOUISIANA FISHERMAN: I look out over this marsh right now. Maybe not to you, Everything looks fine. But to me, I don't see any birds working. I don't see any bait. I don't see any mullets jumping. I don't see much life in the water.
I mean, something isn't right. I couldn't put my finger on it right in here, but you just don't see -- you don't see any life.
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VELSHI: Well, you can certainly put your finger on it if you make your living out of the sea in Louisiana. Louisiana seafood industry is a very big deal.
Let me show you a map of the areas that are open to fishing and closed to fishing. You can see the area inside the yellow line is still closed to fishing in most cases, and that makes life very difficult.
We've seen new numbers from BP about what they've paid out in claims so far to fishermen, to shrimpers, to oyster harvesters. There's a lot of money been paid out, but the bottom line is a lot of these people who do fish, who do shrimp, who do harvest oysters or have charter boats that take people out to fish, they're very, very concerned about what their future is.
There's one guy I know very well from southern Louisiana. He lives on Grand Isle, Louisiana. His name is Dean Blanchard, he runs Dean Blanchard Seafoods. And what he does is he buys the shrimp from a lot of these shrimpers who go out there, they come in, they dump their shrimp with him, he pays them for it and then he repackages it and sells it to other people. Well, things are very, very different for Dean.
Dean, you've lived out a lot of hurricanes. There probably hasn't been a problem you've been able to solve. He joins us now on the phone. Dean, how are you feeling right now?
DEAN BLANCHARD, DEAN BLANCHARD FOODS (via telephone): Oh, we hanging in. Next time you come visit me, bring food.
VELSHI: What's business like for you? Last time I saw you, there would be shrimpers coming in every day. They'd be dumping their shrimp, you'd be weighing it, you'd be figuring out what the sizes are and you'd be paying them and you'd have this a big freezer and then you'd send that shrimp off. What does your operation look like and feel like now?
BLANCHARD: Oh, completely different, Ali. It's, you know, we, we pretty much out of the seafood business. We're pumping a little diesel to BP, but very little, you know.
So far they paid me two small checks that less than my monthly bills, you know. You know, they're virtually stopped all large claim payments to businesses and have severely cut the small claims to our workers.
It's getting, you know, instead of getting better, it's actually getting worse.
VELSHI: What's your best guess as to what happens to the shrimping industry after this? At what point can those guys who come in and bring their shrimp to you go back out there and start getting shrimp that you can bring in? And then who do you sell the shrimp to, because I assume your buyers are getting their shrimp elsewhere?
BLANCHARD: Well, basically we lost all of our customers because we've been unable to supply them. And you know, we're looking at two problems -- number one, getting our customers back, and number two, beating the perception that our seafood is tainted.
VELSHI: Is there shrimp out there? How far do you have to go out there to get shrimp? Are those boats out there shrimping?
BLANCHARD: All the shrimp is in the closed area, you know. If you listen to BP, they make it sound good that so much percent of the Gulf is open, but the percentage that is open has very, very little shrimp. You know, we virtually out of business.
VELSHI: The shrimp is closer to where you are, it's not that far-out area that's open for fishing?
BLANCHARD: Yes, sir. You know, it's a mess down here.
You know, I'm looking at the TV, I got no money and no job but not doing anything wrong and Tony Hayward gets $18 million and a new job. There's something wrong with that picture.
VELSHI: I hear you, Dean.
We're showing some pictures on TV of you being our host back during Hurricane Gustav. And I remember seeing you, that didn't bother you a bit. You guys down there are tough about hurricanes, you know things are going to come back. I've seen people very affected by this spill because they're worried about when, if ever the business comes back.
So, Dean, our thoughts and our hearts are with you. Thanks very much and I always remember you keeping our CNN crew safe during the hurricane. Hopefully, we'll be able to spend some good time together again.
BLANCHARD: well, it's nice talking to you and you're welcome back any time.
VELSHI: Dean, thanks very much.
Dean Blanchard of Dean Blanchard Foods, he's right in Grand Isle, Louisiana.
When we come back, we're covering a lot of big stories for you, including what's happening to Charles Rangel on Capitol Hill and what's happening in the center of Phoenix, a demonstration that has led to some arrests. We'll bring it to you after this.
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VELSHI: We want to bring you up to speed on the top stories we're covering here at CNN.
Arizona's controversial immigration law went into effect today, at least part of it. A federal judge blocked major part of it yesterday, the part that would require police to question and detain people if there was suspicion there was illegal immigrants. Protests continue in Phoenix today, some arrests have happened in the last hour.
A decade-long equality is about to be improved, but not fixed. Let me show you something here. In case you don't know much about Illicit drugs, possessing this much crack would get you a jail term the same as possessing this much cocaine. There's race and politics involved. I'm going to tell you about it when we come back in "Crime & Consequence" coming up next.
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VELSHI: Time now for "Crime & Consequence." Doing things a little differently today. I'm going to tell you about the disparity between crack and cocaine sentences.
Congress has just sent the president a Fair Sentencing Act, which reduces but does not eliminate the disparity between crack versus powder cocaine. Now, the House approved the measure yesterday, the Senate passed it in March. The disparity is based on federal books for about 25 years, since the mid '80s. The tougher minimum penalties for crack cocaine sprang from that era's epidemic of drug violence and the belief that has now been debunked that crack is more addictive than powder-form cocaine.
Now these drugs are just two different forms of the same thing, like ice and water. You start with coca leaves, you process them with stuff like acid and ammonia and you get powder cocaine. Then you take powder cocaine and process even more and you get crack rocks.
But in decades of "Just Say No," lawmakers have cracked down. They instituted a 100 to 1 sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine. So if you get arrested with 5 grams of crack on you, you're automatically doing five years in the penitentiary, at least. Now, to earn the same five-year mandatory minimum, a coke user, a powder cocaine user or dealer, would have to be holding 100 times that -- 500 grams. Five grams, 500 grams. All right, now, this is what that 100 to 1 ratio looks like.
The changes that Congress agreed to will lower the sentencing disparity. It will still be more, you'll still get more time in jail for dealing or possessing crack than powder cocaine, but it's going to be more like 18 to 1. So this much crack will get you the same time in prison as this much cocaine. Still a big difference in the amounts, but an improvement. I suppose it doesn't matter to you if you don't deal with take drugs. The lawmakers pushing for Fair Sentencing Act wanted a total equality, 1 to 1, but political realities forced them to compromise.
Like so many things in this country, there is a racial component to this. The vast majority of people convicted of crack cocaine offenses are black. The vast majority of people convicted for powder cocaine offenses are white. Congressmen behind the Fair Sentencing Act say the tougher crack penalties saw a number of drug offenders in federal prison skyrocket from fewer than 5,000 in 1980 to nearly 100,000 last year.
President Obama is set to sign the bill into law shortly.
All right, recycling harmful gases. CO2, one company has a plan that's going to turn those greenhouse gases into gas for your car. It's our "Big Idea," it's coming up next. Stay with me. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: So, when we talk about pollution, we talk about greenhouse gases, largely we are talking about CO2, carbon dioxide, the byproduct of us burning fuel. When we burn oil or burn coal, carbon dioxide, CO2, goes into the atmosphere. That's the stuff we would love to capture and stop putting into the environment. What if you could capture it and actually make into it fuel that powers the things we need fuel for? What a great idea.
Byron Elton is joining me now. He's the president and CEO of Carbon Sciences.
I don't understand, I won't pretend to understand the science behind this one. What is it you're doing with CO2 to help save it from getting out into the environment?
BYRON ELTON, PRESIDENT & CEO, CARBON SCIENCES: Good morning, Ali. Thank you for having me.
As you mentioned, we're working on a technology that makes gasoline, same gasoline you're using in your car today, without cruising crude oil. Now that's important because as you know, since Richard Nixon every president including President Obama has vowed to end our addiction to crude oil, to petroleum. And yet we find ourselves today in a worst position than we've ever been. The demand for oil is at an all-time high. Last week, China surpassed the U.S. as the largest consumer in the world and is continues to grow.
Easy oil is behind us. There's a reason BP is drilling for oil 40 miles off the coast and two miles deep, it's very difficult to get at. And perhaps more importantly, we don't control it. We don't control the supply. We don't have enough for ourselves. We don't control the pricing. And as a result, it's a catastrophic economic effect on the country. In January, the trade deficit was $37.3 billion; 75 percent of that, $27.5 billion, was spent on oil.
VELSHI: All right, so what can you do about it? What can you do about it specifically?
ELTON: So the idea is, can you make gasoline that fits into the existing infrastructure, the same cars you're driving, the same supply chain, without using crude oil. And that's the technology we're working on.
You mentioned greenhouse gases. Our feedstock is natural gas and carbon dioxide. Good news is lots of it, relatively inexpensive and we have plenty of it here in the United States to make the gasoline.
VELSHI: Are you able to take those things and make them into gasoline or a fuel that a car runs off of?
ELTON: Yes, absolutely. The idea -- the sector is called gas to liquids. The three major fossil fuels, of course, are oil, coal and natural gas. The Germans made gasoline out of coal for years during the World War. You can make fuel out of natural gas. And so the answer is absolutely you can. There are some challenges, and that's the next generation gas to liquid technology that we're working on.
But if you look at where this becomes applicable, our technology needs those gases to be available in same location. Low-hanging fruit for us -- natural gas facilities, landfills, where there's a significant amount of natural gas and CO2 being produced every day. Typically what they do, they separate it, it's an expensive process. The natural gas, which is considered valuable, goes into the distribution system. The CO2 gets vented into the air, which is not a good thing for anybody. Our technology takes the CO2, reacts it with the natural gas, the methane, with a chemical catalyst and produces gasoline, same gasoline that we're using today.
VELSHI: All right, let's hope it works out.
Byron Elton is the president and CEO of Carbon Sciences joining me. Thanks very much.
All right, we're continuing the coverage of the immigration story. As you know, SB 1070, the Arizona state law, went into effect today but with some big changes. Some of the most controversial parts are gone. So why are people protesting and getting arrested right now in Arizona? I'll tell you when we come back.
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