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Arizona Governor Considers Changing Immigration Law; Chelsea Clinton Weds; Manhunt for Three Escaped Murderers
Aired July 31, 2010 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This hour, they busted out of prison, briefly abducted two people. And tonight, three convicted murderers are still on the run. Police tell CNN the trail has run cold.
A 13-year-old shot again and again, killed execution style in front of his house in the middle of the street. Will his death be the wake-up call Chicago and many other cities around the country need to stop crime? A discussion you definitely don't want to miss.
And it's official: Bill and Hillary Clinton's little girl gives her heart to someone else, her new husband, of course. We're live from Rhinebeck, New York, where Chelsea Clinton just got hitched!
(MUSIC)
LEMON: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
This is the first weekend Arizonans are dealing with their new immigration law, a law that came with much consternation and a judge this week blocked the most controversial parts of it.
Governor Jan Brewer, well, she said she's going to fight back and she fought back right away -- but lost her bid to get a speedy appeal hearing, so that's not going to happen until November. But we are learning now that Governor Jan Brewer may try another tactic altogether.
I want to bring in CNN's Dan Simon, standing by for us at Phoenix.
Dan, what is the governor thinking about doing? What's this move?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, we're hearing that the governor is considering going back to the legislator and having them work on, essentially, a new bill. Let me tell you a little bit about that. She's telling them, basically, go back and make some language tweaks if, in fact, that might accelerate matters. Things are still in the preliminary stages.
And there's one issue here, she hasn't talked to State Senator Russell Pearce. He is the author of this bill and he says if the governor's interested in making tweaks, language tweaks to this bill, it's news to him because nobody from the governor's office has talked to him. He also says he likes the bill as is, and he wrote it with the intention of it having a legal challenge. He ultimately wants to see it go to the Supreme Court where he thinks a win by a five to four or maybe even a six to three vote.
This was Senator Pearce earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: The notion of calling a special legislative session to revisit the bill and its language, you say what to that idea?
RUSSELL PEARCE, ARIZONA STATE SENATE: I'd say they ought to talk to me first. I don't know what tweaks she's talking about. This was carefully crafted. You know, and again, there's not a bill that can't be made better but we'll have that conversation, if they're talking about amending my bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: And amending a bill is not an easy thing, Don. Essentially, they have to go back and do a whole new bill. You can't just look at S.B. 1070 and make changes within it. You have to have an entirely new bill.
Moreover, right now, the legislature is out of session. They don't go back into session until January. So, the governor would have to call a special legislative session -- and given the fact it's August, a lot of lawmakers are on summer vacation. So, it could be pretty tricky to get this done, Don.
LEMON: Yes, it seems like a whole lot to do. As they say, almost like herding cats.
Here's what I want to ask you though -- we've seen the protests. I asked you earlier, you said there were some protests today and they'd been going on. Are a lot of people showing up to these protests? Is it making any difference with lawmakers or with police officers or anyone there, Dan?
SIMON: Well, in terms of making a difference with police officer -- yes, in the sense that if you have unruly protesters, the police have to respond and restore order. We saw that the other day at the Maricopa County jail where you had hundreds of protesters block the entrance, preventing anyone from going in and out of the jail.
In the sense in terms of whether or not lawmakers are paying attention to it -- not really. I mean, they are doing their thing. And for the most part, I mean, when you talk to Russell Pearce, he says this bill is over. He doesn't want to see any changes to it. He says that it's common to have legislative tweaks and so forth, but in this particular situation, he wants to go forward with it as is. Again, he wrote it with the intention that it would ultimately reach the Supreme Court -- and these tweaks that may or may not occur, he is really not in favor of that, Don.
LEMON: All right. Good report, thank you very much -- Dan Simon for us in Arizona.
We want to go to the Gulf of Mexico now because work to permanently seal BP's crippled well -- well, it's apparently hit a snag. The procedure known as the "static kill" now won't begin until Monday or even Tuesday. That's when heavy drilling mud and cement will be pumped into the well from above to push the crude oil back down into the earth.
But first, sediment from Tropical Storm Bonnie has to be cleared out of the way. The so-called "bottom kill" procedure when the relief well intercepts the well and pumps it full of cement is expected to begin by the end of August.
A catastrophe is unfolding in Pakistan where flooding has killed at least 800 people. That death toll is expected to rise as well. The U.N. says nearly 1 million people have been affected by the flood. Rain has washed away thousands of acres of crops. Aid groups are rushing in to help the victims of the flooding but more monsoon rain could be on the way on Monday.
Russia could use some rain as wildfires burn unchecked in the west. At least 25 people have been killed and nearly 3,000 left homeless by those blaze. The fires are the worst to hit that region ever, and more dry weather and soaring temperatures are expected in the next few days.
Russia's president suggested the response by local officials had fallen short.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. DMITRY MEDVEDEV, RUSSIA (through translator): Unfortunately, the forces of this emergency ministry, its regional capabilities are not sufficient because this is really a natural disaster that happens probably only once every 30 or 40 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Coming up on CNN: just in case you haven't seen it. Do you see Congressman Anthony Weiner's emotional blow up on the Hill?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: It's Republicans wrapping their arms around Republicans rather than doing the right thing on behalf of the heroes! It is a shame! A shame!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: He slammed Republicans for voting down a bill that would provide aid to 911 responders. But that is just the beginning. I'll play it straight ahead for you.
And Chelsea's wedding -- the fashion, security, the guest list, you will see it next.
And we want you to be part of this broadcast. Don't just sit there. Send me a message. Go to Twitter. Go to Facebook. You can check out my blog, CNN/Don, or check me out on Foursquare.com. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So, I've been looking for my invitation but I guess it got lost in the mail, Chelsea and Marc. Did you get your invitation? Some are calling it the wedding of the century. The century is not over. I'm sure there will be more.
In just the past hour, Chelsea Clinton and her long-time beau, Marc Mezvinsky, said "I do." The event has been shrouded in secrecy. But we're guessing that our Susan Candiotti can give us the scoop.
Susan, I think you got your invitation. You're inside, weren't you? And what did you buy them as a wedding present?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I -- I don't want to share that with anyone.
No, Don, I didn't receive an invitation either, but I'm happy to be reporting from a distance, from afar, trying to find out what details we can. We don't have any.
As a matter of fact, we really don't officially know whether the happy couple has said "I do." We do know this: the ceremony was scheduled to get under way about an hour ago. Whether it did, we're still waiting to find that out, too.
We can tell you this: about an hour or so before the ceremony began, maybe a half hour before it was scheduled to begin, we saw a lot of the guests boarding bus to take them out to the John Jacob Astor mansion. That's where the wedding is scheduled to take place. Everyone dressed to the nine's in formal wear for this black tie affair.
So, yes, all the plans, all the whispers, all the confidentiality agreements, it's all the thing of the past now as the event is believed to be under way.
And, of course, we've been looking for celebrities. Anyone we could see. And, of course, we did see dress designer Vera Wang. We believe she might have designed Chelsea's dress for this event.
And we also saw, for example, actors Ted Danson and Mary Steenburgen, longtime friends of the Clintons. And we asked them what kind of emotions they think the Clintons will be going through tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED DANSON, ACTOR: Joy, pure joy. It's the best thing in the world, especially when you love the man they're getting married to.
MARY STEENBURGEN, ACTRESS: And knowing my friend, Bill, for 30- something years, I can honestly tell you, I'm sure he'll be crying his eyes out knowing him.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CANDIOTTI: Now, we have a sneaking suspicion that before the night is over, that some of the details will be coming out. That's usually what happens in a situation like this, Don, as you know. Perhaps we'll be receiving some official photographs from the wedding ceremony and, again, try to find out some of what happened. And naturally, we'll also be trying to talk to the guests later on as they come back.
LEMON: And everybody, this is every lady's dream. They want to see Chelsea in the dress. Any idea when that's going to happen, if at all?
CANDIOTTI: Well, I think by the time we see you tonight, for CNN News at 10:00, perhaps we'll know by then and perhaps, you'll even get to see some pictures by then. We'll keep our fingers crossed. We hope so.
LEMON: Way to go to promote our show at 10:00 tonight, Susan Candiotti. Thank you, Susan. We appreciate your reporting there from Rhinebeck, New York.
OK. I got to be honest with all of you guys. All the Chelsea Clinton wedding frenzy kind of -- kind of got to me a little bit. So, I did a little digging and one thing led to another. And now, I have a list for you of famous first daughters' weddings. Can you think of any?
All right. Let me help you out. I'll start you off.
Number four, Teddy Roosevelt's daughter, Alice, married an Ohio congressman at the White House. That was 1906. Beautiful, it looks like.
Number three, 1966, LBJ walked his daughter, Luci, down the aisle at her White House wedding. That was -- look at that cake! Can we put that back? You see that cake? It's huge! Wow!
Who else made the list? Do you know? Kevin? Freddy, do you know?
(INAUDIBLE)
LEMON: He said, Jenna Bush, maybe. We'll tell you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I have more now on my research into famous first daughter's weddings. I gave you two just before the break. So, did you think of any others? I think Kevin may have given one away.
Let's see if you got them.
Number two, many of you still remember seeing images of Richard Nixon walking daughter Trisha down the aisle of the White House Rose Garden back in 1971.
And number one on the list of first daughter's weddings: George W. Bush's daughter, you said it, Jenna, 2008, tied the knot, Crawford, Texas. So, that got us wondering, where are some famous presidential children now? Where are they now?
Who better to ask than presidential historian, Doug Wead. He joins me now from Washington.
Hello, sir. How you doing?
OK. Can we hear him? Is he there?
DOUG WEAD, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I'm here.
LEMON: All right. Now, we can hear you. OK.
So, give us the scoop on what these former first kids' are doing right now. Let's start number one with Jenna Bush.
WEAD: Just before we get started, let me warn you -- they don't like -- they don't like public life.
LEMON: Yes.
WEAD: I interviewed 19 of these kids and they've tasted public life. And they've been in private life and they prefer private. But Jenna, of course, is an author and she's working as an NBC correspondent for the "Today" show.
LEMON: OK. What about her sister then, Jenna's sister, Barbara Bush?
WEAD: Well, her sister is a cofounder of a nonprofit company that works with health issues and is seeking equity between Africa and the U.S. and health care needs. And that's kind of her heart.
LEMON: I think Barbara --
WEAD: A very private person.
LEMON: Yes. She was always -- I think she was even a bit quieter than Jenna as well. We didn't see as much of her.
WEAD: It's true. But so many of them are private. Julie Eisenhower called her sister, Trisha, the Howard Hughes of the White House. And Chelsea has been called the Garbo of presidential children and Amy you can't find.
LEMON: You bring up a very good point. We're going to run down a list here. So, don't get ahead me.
WEAD: All right.
LEMON: But you bring up a very good point about -- because there are people who are out there and, you know, this new breed of celebrity with reality shows and whatever. And for people who want fame, I think many times they don't know what in the heck they're getting into because you don't have any privacy at all -- especially when you're a first daughter. WEAD: Yes. And these children are vigilant in protecting their privacy and their dignity. But, occasionally, look what happened -- Caroline Kennedy, entered public life just briefly and got knocked around a little bit and --
LEMON: And John Kennedy, Jr. as well, before his death, he started the magazine, I forget the name of the magazine that he started before he died. "George" -- it's called "George."
Hey, listen, let's run down the list. We'll finish the list and we'll chat more.
Amy Carter, what's she doing?
WEAD: Amy Carter is one that I've written pages about her because she was involved in anti-nuclear proliferation and many causes. But she has disappeared off the face of the earth. She is -- she's out there shopping at Target somewhere the night. And the cashier doesn't even know she just had a transaction with a former -- the daughter of the former president of the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You know what? I have to say, good for her. Good for her.
Ron Reagan, he's always outspoken. I remember, back in the '80s, I think he's had a late-night talk show. What's he doing now?
WEAD: Well, you've seen him on MSNBC, he's a contract there. He's a journalist. And Ron Reagan, Jr. is interesting. He's a Democrat or espouses Democrat views.
And many of these presidential children do espouse different views from their father. They're establishing their own separate identity.
FDR had a son who actually opposed him for re-election.
So, that sometimes happens among these presidential children.
LEMON: Can you imagine, you know, you have a fight with your family, you disagree with something, and you're the president of the United States and your own son doesn't vote for you?
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I won't vote for my dad when I was upset with him.
All right. Let's go with Tricia Nixon. We said she would walk down the aisle in 1971 by her father in the Rose Garden of the White House. What's she doing?
WEAD: Yes. Well, she serves on the board of the presidential library, with her sister, Julie. And Tricia Nixon also -- Cox, also serves on a board, a medical board and another museum board. But she focused on raising her family. Her wedding, by the way, was the high watermark of these weddings. It was a primetime two-hour special in the evening and seen by people all over the world. She was a beautiful bride.
LEMON: I would love to talk to you more. I love stuff like this and I think viewers like that "where are they now" sort of thing when you do that.
Thank you, Doug Wead. Doug Wead is a presidential historian and he says he's written about a lot of these people we've spoken about. Thank you. Have a great evening.
WEAD: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Outrage on the House floor!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEINER: You vote yes if you believe yes. You vote in favor of something if you believe it's the right thing. If you believe it's a wrong thing, you vote no. We are following a procedure -- I will not yield to the gentleman, and the gentleman will observe regular order! The gentleman will --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Man, he was on fire. He says it was the Brooklyn in him coming out in that heated moment. But you know who's even madder? The first responders who were there on 9/11. My heart felt conversation with one of them -- next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: In Arizona at this hour, a manhunt is on for three convicted murders who escaped from prison. Police say the men broke out of a medium security prison in Kingman, Arizona, last night. They allegedly abducted two people at gun point early this morning but later released them at a truck stop. All three were serving 15 years to life on murder convictions.
Joining us now to talk about is Charles Flanagan. He's the deputy director for the Arizona Department of Corrections.
Charles, how did these men escape?
CHARLES FLANAGAN, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS (via telephone): We just got information out about these escapees. Our primary responsibility now is to capture them and return them to custody. The information --
LEMON: Can I stop you? We didn't hear the beginning of your question. Apparently, our viewers didn't, either.
So, again, I'll ask you again -- how did these men escape?
FLANAGAN: Don, thank you, first, for helping us get information out about these escapees so that we can help capture them and bring them back into custody.
The information that we have is that approximately 9:00 p.m. last night, these inmates were not in place for a formal count. Shortly thereafter, there was an alarm at the perimeter and we discovered some point thereafter, a hole in the fence that had been cut and these three, as you have indicated, took two people hostage and the nearby town, and drove a truck with them to Flagstaff, Arizona, where they left the truck and these two people unharmed behind, and took off, we believe, on I-40 heading east.
This prison is housing medium-security inmates from Arizona and it is a privately-operated facility -- operated by Management and Training Corporation, which is centered in Centerville, Utah.
LEMON: So, Deputy Director, I have to ask you, if -- where do you think these men are now? If you had to guess, you said they got in the truck and went to Flagstaff. What area do you believe they're in?
FLANAGAN: Well, Don, we try not to guess in cases like this. We're working very intensely with state law enforcement, our own criminal investigation's unit and fugitive apprehension unit, with the U.S. Marshals. And we are tracking them with a number of different sources of intel.
We are tracing where their families and their other contacts are. We've notified law enforcement in the surrounding states and, also, at the border -- just in case they are heading that way.
LEMON: That was my next question. You said the border -- possibly headed to Mexico?
FLANAGAN: It is possible. We have to take every eventuality into consideration unless we have a definitive trail. We know they have a vehicle, so we can't track them with dogs and search teams at this point. So, we're using intel and law enforcement contacts to track them as best we can.
LEMON: It has been reported that you're looking for a woman who is suspected of being a accomplice?
FLANAGAN: Yes. There was a woman who is on the visitation list of one of these inmates. She was observed earlier in an area that was restricted. And she was then reportedly, with these people when they took these two truck drivers hostage and drove their truck from Kingman to Flagstaff.
LEMON: And again, these three men considered to be very dangerous, escaped from a medium-security prison and they are all convicted murderers, serving 15 to life.
And joining us by phone, Charles Flanagan, who's a deputy director of the Arizona Department of Corrections. Thank you, sir.
FLANAGAN: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Checking top stories now on CNN. The Army private suspected of one of the largest security breaches in military history is now in solitary confinement. Military spokesman says Private First Class Bradley Manning is being held in Quantico, Virginia. He is suspected of leaking tens of thousands of classified military documents to a Web site called WikiLeaks.org. Manning has already been charged with leaking an air strike video from 2007.
Firefighters had their hands full in southern California right now but they may be winning the battle against the raging crown fire in Los Angeles County. It's now about 62 percent contained. That is thanks to better weather conditions there.
Authorities have lifted evacuation orders however and most residents have returned home. The crown fire is the biggest of more than three wildfires that have blackened more than 17,000 acres in that region.
Investigators in Pakistan have found the flight data records at the site of this week's deadly plane crash outside Islamabad. The black boxes will be sent to Germany or France for analysis. That's since aviation officials say they don't have the facilities to examine them in Pakistan.
One hundred and fifty-two people were killed when the plane went down in the hills outside the capital. Authorities say it could take months to complete that investigation.
The bad blood between Democrats and Republicans, the open rancor was on full display on Thursday night on the floor of the House of Representatives. Now, it's not just the obvious bitterness of this blow-out, it's the issue that prompted it in the first place.
This latest example of how Republicans and Democrats can't play well together comes during the debate and eventual defeat of a bill to provide health care to 9/11 first responders.
Now, you may have heard that New York Congressman Anthony Weiner really lost his cool -- really lost his cool. I'll show you Weiner's 90-second tirade in its entirety in just a moment, but first, I want you to hear New York Republican, Peter King. He is the congressman who spoke immediately before Weiner who Weiner addresses in his outburst.
Here's King:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: What we are doing tonight is a cruel hoax and a charade. Everyone knows that this bill will not get the two-thirds majority required on the suspension calendar. Everyone also knows this bill would pass with a clear majority if the Democrat leadership would allow it to come to the floor under the regular procedures of the House.
The reason H.R. 847 is not being brought under regular order is that the majority party is petrified of having members face a potential vote on illegal immigration. They say they want Republican support, yet they never consulted even one Republican before they made the corporate tax increase to pay for it. They said they want Republican support before they pass this bill, but they never applied that standard when they ran through the stimulus, health care, cap-and-trade or financial regulatory reform. No, you only apply it to cops and firefighters and construction workers. What a sad and pathetic double standard. These heroes deserve better than they are receiving here tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. That is how it started. And even if you've seen it, I can't see it enough. Every time I see it I'm mesmerized. As promised, here's our Congressman Weiner, a Democrat from New York responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman from New York is recognized.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, I yield one minute to the distinguished gentleman from New York, Mr. Weiner.
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: ... great courage. Wait until members have spoken and then stand up and wrap your arms around the procedure. We see it in the United States Senate every single day where members say, we want amendments. We want debate. We want amendment but we're still a "no."
And then we stand up and say, if only we had a different process we vote yes. You vote yes if you believe yes. You vote in favor of something if you believe it's the right thing. If you believe it's the wrong thing, you vote no. We are following up procedure. I will not yield to the gentleman and the gentleman will observe regular order. The gentleman will observe regular order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not in order.
WEINER: The gentleman gets up and yells. He thinks he can intimidate people into believing he is right. He is wrong. The gentleman is wrong. The gentleman is providing cover for his colleagues rather than doing the right thing.
If Republicans wrapping their arms around Republicans rather than doing the right thing on behalf of the heroes. It is a shame. A shame! If you believe this is a bad idea, to provide health care, then vote "no." But don't give me the cowardly view, that only if it was a different procedure, the gentleman will observe regular order and sit down! I will not yield. The gentleman will sit. The gentleman is correct in sitting. I will not -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is obviously -
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman will suspend.
WEINER: I will not stand here - UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman is recognized.
WEINER: -- and listen to my colleagues if only I had a different procedure that allows us to stall, stall, stall and then vote "no." Instead of standing up and defending your colleagues and voting "no" on this bill you should urge them to vote "yes" something the gentleman has not done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The bill failed with just 12 House Republicans supporting it. So the question that we're asking is -- has the bad blood between the Democrats and Republicans rendered any chance of getting any legislation passed hopeless?
Now we want you to hear what the non-politicians have to say, too. So I talked with first responder, John Feal. He's one of the guys who rushed to ground zero to help with rescue efforts. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: How do you feel about this bill, the bill failing?
JOHN FEAL, FOUNDER, FEEL GOOD FOUNDATION: Well, one, we knew it was going to happen. The way it was put on the floor as a suspension bill, we knew it would fail. Both congressmen, King and Weiner are right, but both congressman, King and Weiner are wrong.
One said it was a sham. It was a sham. One said it was a shame and it is a shame because the bipartisan reckless politics, it's the 9/11 responders that suffer because two parties can't agree and have different ideologies on how to help somebody, we're the ones who suffer. They should have voted like an American last night instead of like a Republican or a Democrat. That vote should have been 435 to nothing. Instead, we have to wait another six to seven weeks before they come back from their long over-rated recess and hopefully we get -- I'm sorry?
LEMON: Yes, go ahead. Finish your thought and then I'll go on with my question.
FEAL: We have to wait for them to come back and hopefully we'll put the bill back on the floor by the end of September and as a regular rules' bill which needs 218 votes and we know we're confident to win but the thing is, Don, we're running out of time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: New York's mayor agrees. Michael Bloomberg slammed both parties for failing to pass the bill calling it "a disgrace" and "an attack on America."
Coming up next, in just a few hours, there she is, my colleague, one of our own here at CNN, will receive a very distinguished honor. She's in a warm city, somewhere you can see, and we're going to tell you what that honor is and we're going to talk to Soledad O'Brien live, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: One of the most prestigious professional groups in journalism, the National Association of Black Journalists meeting this weekend in San Diego. And tonight, they will single out our very own Soledad O'Brien as journalist of the year. Soledad, congratulations. Are you excited?
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Thank you so much. Thank you. I am so excited. And this is probably the only award in my whole life that my children have a clue what it's about. They're like, "wow, mom, journalist of the year. That's big." You know, they're pretty little. So it felt good that they were impressed.
LEMON: Listen, we were trying to -- I was thinking -- Don, you're going to talk to Soledad, what are you going to talk about. I said let's talk about everything she's done this year. You see, I remember, I think it was last year, you and I, we hadn't seen each other and we bumped into each other at an airplane and we work at the same place but you know, the only time we see each was on an airplane.
So you did -- let's see, you were in Haiti, "The Atlanta Child Murders," "Black in America 2," "Gary and Tony Have a Baby," you did something on New Orleans. And this is what you're being honored for. What else did you do? Can you even remember?
O'BRIEN: Gosh, I think the things that probably make me most proud have been to work on some of the documentaries about Martin Luther King, Jr., mostly because I've had an opportunity to sit down with civil rights legends and when you shoot a documentary, as you well know, you know, you interview people for two and three hours.
So to sit down with Andrew Young and to talk to him for three hours about the day that Dr. King died or Dorothy Cotton, to sit down with Fred Gray who was Rosa Parks' attorney. You know, those are really amazing. I felt very privileged to just be able to sit in the same room and ask any question I wanted to for the next couple of hours. So you know, I think that those are, in a lot of ways, some of the most meaningful.
I've held on to the transcripts, you know, because I know those stories don't get told a lot and those folks are getting older. You don't get to really hear their stories very much.
LEMON: It's good to know that I'm not the only one who does that. I think, why do I still have the transcripts from James Brown? You know what I mean. So we were talking -
O'BRIEN: Right. Right.
LEMON: As you were talking, we were showing Myron Roll there and I want to talk to you about that -- but go ahead and talk about this.
O'BRIEN: Wonderful young man. Well, you know, what I love about Myron, we did a great story for him for Anderson "AC 360" where we looked at his opportunities. We first met him as a young man that wants to be a surgeon but also, wanted to play professional ball.
And what a incredible role model, which is a word that sometimes I think is overused but he is such a solid, smart kid and to sit down and talk to him, one of his biggest struggles, as I know because I know you know his family, you've interviewed him before, has been to convince people during the draft that he's really focused on football.
So you know, I think again, I have a chance to sit down and talk to really inspiring and interesting people. It kind of makes it a great gig.
LEMON: OK. Listen, I'm going to talk to you -- lastly, I want to talk to you about the children in Haiti. But let's talk about Wayne Williams first. Because to actually sit in a room with that man -- and that was one of your most recent documentaries. It just must have been a bit mind-blowing.
O'BRIEN: Yes, you know what's interesting about Wayne Williams, and I think everybody always wants to know, what's it like to sit down with a guy who has been convicted of, you know, being a serial killer. And I think this is probably true for many serial killers because I've read it a lot. Seemed so normal. Seemed like a regular guy. Small man. I mean, I was in heels, I was about the same height that he was, probably about the same weight that he is.
And so it was very interesting to see just how normal he appeared. You know, he is -- he maintains that he did not kill anybody. But the weight of evidence is very much against him and he sits in prison to this day, as you know.
LEMON: Hey, Soledad, you know I'm getting the rap in my ear, not because we don't love you, but you know how it is, you've sat here so many time too? But I got a few seconds left.
O'BRIEN: I feel the love and I'm so grateful. Thank you.
LEMON: As a mom, Haiti, the children?
O'BRIEN: I was there the other day with my daughter. I took Sofia (ph), who is now nine, and we went to volunteer at an orphanage. It was amazing. I tell you. I think Haiti is a hard place for parents to take their kids. But I would encourage every parent out there to drag that child when they're about eight or nine and start bringing them to do things, whether it's in your own community, another nearby community, somewhere far away, make them understand that we're all part of the same greater community than an individual can make an impact in the world.
Really just holding a baby for a couple of hours, that is contributing something and a nine year old can do that. So we had great trip. We bonded a lot and she fell in love with the people of Haiti just as I have.
LEMON: Congratulations, my dear. Journalist of the year for NABJ and it's early so go get dressed now and send us some pictures back so we can have something at 10:00 p.m. (LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Yes, I get it. It will take me about two hours to get in that gown. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much. I will.
LEMON: Talk to you soon.
You know, many friends, neighbors and colleagues are finding themselves on different sides of the immigration debate. I'll explain, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We've seen lots of protests over Arizona's new immigration law but not just in Arizona. This is what happened last night in New York during the Mets' game against the Arizona Diamondbacks. Two men ran on to the field waving Mexican flags. Security guards eventually grabbed them. A few dozen protesters also demonstrated outside of the stadium.
In a new CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll 55 percent of Americans surveyed said they support Arizona's immigration law. 40 percent oppose it. And the divide between those groups can run very deep. Many friends, neighbors and colleagues are finding themselves on different sides of this debate. And as CNN's Dan Simon tells us, some families are, too.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 33 years, the Kingery family has made Friday night taco night. All seven of Josephine and Ed's grown children try to be here each week, along with 11 grandchildren and eight great grandchildren.
IDA KINGERY, DAUGHTER: And we also bring our friends over so they can meet our family. There's a lot of people that aren't Hispanic that are our friends that come and they see how tight we are with our family.
SIMON: But on this night, there is division.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got five for it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And if you're against it, raise your hand.
SIMON: This large Hispanic-American family finds itself split on the anti-illegal immigration law that has rocked this state.
Eddie marched this week with the protesters.
(on camera): You're worried it's going to lead to a lot of racial profiling?
EDDIE KINGERY, AGAINST SB 1070: I do, honestly, I do. I think it happens -- I mean, it's so easy to see the color of skin. The color of skin is just such an easy way to say, "hey, they're probably here illegally."
IDA KINGERY, SUPPORTS SB 1070: It's going to be a little bit rough going. But, you know, I just feel that it's going to be the best thing for Arizona.
SIMON (voice-over): Ida Kingery is the oldest sibling. Racial profiling? Maybe, she says, but something needed to be done.
(on camera): How do you think it's going to will help? How is it going to solve the immigration problem?
IDA KINGERY: I think once the law is passed it will give a little bit of ease, you know, for the people that are non-Hispanic and it's going to make them feel a little more comfortable. Because right now they think that all the immigrants that are coming in, are coming in as criminals and they're not all criminals.
SIMON: For those here on the pro side, their arguments turned to health care and education. Liz says she's concerned how tax-supported services can be overwhelmed by illegal immigrants.
LIZ KINGERY, SUPPORTS SB 1070: Current immigration problem is affecting the state of Arizona's economy. The medical and benefits for you know, social security and our education.
SIMON: On the other side of the table -
EDDIE KINGERY: It's really turned the Mexican people into being like the villains. Like, they're blaming us for the economy or blaming them for the, you know -
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But it is affecting the economy.
EDDIE KINGERY: It is but -
(CROSSTALK)
EDDIE KINGERY: It's not the fact that -- it's not the problem of the immigrants. It's not.
SIMON: But no matter how heated their arguments get, they'll always be back the following Friday for taco night and the family celebrations that have made this evening special for more than three decades.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy birthday to you!
SIMON: Dan Simon, CNN, Phoenix.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Next, I'm going to share a story with you that really gets me mad!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doctor told me he found 22 bullet holes in my baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't deserve to die. It wasn't his time. He was only 13.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. Here's the story behind that. Somebody walked up to a 13-year-old boy in Chicago and shot him over and over. Police say it could be as many as 22 times. They haven't figured it out as if a child's murder isn't bad enough, get this, police say the shooter or shooters may have had the wrong kid. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: This is a story that really makes me mad and it probably will make you mad, too. 13-year-old Robert Freeman is now a grim statistic, sadly. The teen was gunned down this week outside his Chicago home in cold blood. He reportedly was shot more than 20 times. Robert is just the latest example in an epidemic of violence claiming the lives of Chicago's youth.
Most of them are African-American kids living in some of the city's toughest and poorest neighborhood. I spoke about this critical public safety issue with CNN political analyst Roland Martin, Chicago community organizer Ron Holt, and author Victor Woods, who compares this crisis to the BP oil disaster.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VICTOR WOODS, AUTHOR, "A BREED APART": With BP, the oil crisis, everybody came together because of that, because of the fact that everybody. When Chicago gets serious, this is not just a black problem, white people should be outraged. Chinese people, Japanese people, German-Americans, Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans. Everyone should be concerned but they're not concerned.
You know, you have people on the south and west side that are treated like they're outcasts or foreign members from another country. We have not got serious about this. We're labeling these kids gangbangers and thugs. Who are the gapping bangers? These kids all look the same. You can't tell the difference. And I don't hear anybody talking about jobs.
The police -- you know, first of all, if this happened in a white neighborhood, we would fix this problem in a minute. If one white child got shot in Chicago in Lake Forest, Highland Park, they would have a police officer on every corner. They're not asking the community members to fix this. The community members are not police officers. We are not serious in Chicago about this problem.
LEMON: Hang on, Ron.
(CROSSTALK) LEMON: Ron, real quickly, I'm going to give you 10 seconds and I'm going to give Roland the last word. Go ahead, Ron.
VOICE OF RON HOLT, DIRECTOR, CAPS: I have to disagree with that. The police are doing a good job in patrolling the areas, patrolling the street. If there's a shooting anywhere -
WOODS: Absolutely not, they're not doing a good job.
LEMON: OK, listen --
HOLT: I disagree with you, sir. You're absolutely wrong. I've been a police -
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: We're not going to solve this problem right now -
WOODS: Why are children getting shot on every corner? If one child got shot on Michigan Avenue, we'd have a police officer on every corner.
HOLT: (INAUDIBLE) sir, if their parents raised them correctly, let's get it right -
WOODS: No, we cannot -- half the parents are in prison. We cannot blame this on the parents. These children do not have jobs and they do not have hope.
HOLT: -- it starts at home, sir.
LEMON: Victor, I appreciate your passion but also this is coming from a police officer who lost his son who is also working so, you know, I just want to get that out there. Roland --
WOODS: And I think that's awful. I think that's awful.
LEMON: Roland, I'll give you the last word. Do you think it has anything to do if this happened in a white neighborhood that anything would change?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know what, I don't give a damn about that conversation. This is the problem. Every time this comes up, people say, well, this happened in the white neighborhood, this would have happened. No, no. Here is the reality, Don, and that is these kids are dying. Sons and daughters are dying. Do the people who live there, their neighbors, church members, family members, are they willing to say enough is enough and we're going to create policing organizations, we're going to patrol our own streets, we're going to write down license plate numbers?
WOODS: Why do people in the neighborhood -
LEMON: Victor, let him make his point. Let him make his point, Victor. Go ahead, Roland. MARTIN: Because you know what, Victor, because I grew up in a neighborhood where the people who lived there like my parents took charge of their neighborhood and said the cops will do their thing but we are not going to pass the buck and you have to do it in partnership with the police.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: We're going to continue to follow that story here on CNN. You can bet that.
CNN education contributor Steve Perry is an experienced and successful high school principal. And he tells us one of his biggest challenges is finding smart, passionate people who want to be teachers. In tonight's "Perry's Principles," Steve sat down with a man who is using poetry to inspire the best and the brightest in the classroom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TAYLOR MALI, POET: I make kids wonder, I make them question. I make them criticize. I make them apologize and mean it.
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): The stage is Taylor Mali's classroom. The audience, his students.
MALI: I want to remind people the potential of this language that we have and what you can do with it.
PERRY: For nine years he taught English, Math and history.
(on camera): Then you become a poet whose purpose is to inspire people to become teachers.
MALI: After about the 10th or 11th person said because of you and the way you talk about the teaching profession, I've decided to become a teacher and decided to keep track and then I give myself a goal. I was going to inspire 1,000 people to become teachers and I'm up to 499.
PERRY: I'm here with Alyse Lichtenstein, teacher number --
ALYSE LICHTENSTEIN, TEACHER: 478.
MALI: I make kids work harder than they ever thought they could.
PERRY: So you went to a poetry event. To be entertained?
LICHTENSTEIN: Yes.
PERRY: You didn't even go to see Taylor.
LICHTENSTEIN: Nope.
PERRY (voice-over): Until that night, Alyse wasn't sure what she wanted to study.
MALI: Let me break it down for you, so you know what I say is true, teachers, teachers make a difference.
LICHTENSTEIN: I saw him perform and it was just mind blowing (INAUDIBLE) subject be.
PERRY: Today, she is an English education major at Boston University.
(on camera): How are you doing so many of us principals are having so much trouble doing? I never found 470 anythings to do anything?
MALI: I talk about my experience and I never pretend to be something I'm not. I'm not an expert in education. I don't know what the answers are to fix education. But what I do know is that fixing education in America will always involve attracting bright, intelligent, motivated, passionate college graduates to choose teaching.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Good stuff. Thank you, Perry.
I'm Don Lemon. And to my biggest fan in D.C. (INAUDIBLE), thanks for watching. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
"Toxic America" starts right now.
