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Obama Talks Mosque in Gulf; Is the N-Word Ever OK?

Aired August 14, 2010 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Right now on CNN, the president speaks only to us about his thoughts on that controversial mosque near Ground Zero. It is a CNN Exclusive.

The first plunge. Pictures of the president and his daughter taking a dip in the Gulf of Mexico even if some still worried the water might not be safe.

And what would you say if you could say anything you wanted to about race and the dreaded N-word -- what would you say? Here's your chance and mine to do it. The most honest conversation on this subject so far is about to happen right now. All thanks to Dr. Laura.

(MUSIC)

LEMON: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.

Clean, safe and opened for business -- that's what President Obama is saying about the beaches on the Gulf Coast after months of oil leaking into the water. And to prove it, he's there right now with the first lady and his daughter, Sasha, on a short vacation.

And in an exclusive interview with CNN, the president explains why he supports the rights of Muslim to build a mosque and a community center near Ground Zero.

Our senior White House correspondent Ed Henry is in Panama City Beach, Florida.

Ed, you got the one-on-one with the president. Tell us about it.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Don. We caught up with him.

Now, obviously, the message the president is trying to send is about the Gulf Coast and that's why he's here. He was at a Coast Guard station getting briefings on the situation. He said they've marked a major milestone by stopping the oil flow but that this is not over yet, and the administration is going to stay on top of it.

And one of the thing locals have been wondering is, is he going to get in the water. I asked him about. He said was likely to go swimming but not without his shirt off because of all the tabloids stories when he took the shirt off in Hawaii.

Well, it turns out he ended up swimming late this afternoon with his daughter, Sasha. He was underwater. You see from the official White House photos. You only see him from the shoulders up.

But there's also a much more important, substantive issue to discuss with him moving forward about this mosque situation. The president last night, in a White House ceremony, is suggesting that he supports all of this because of the principle of religious freedom. But when I caught up with him, he tried to clarify those remarks because of this huge, huge, controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: You get in the water today or tomorrow?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think we're going to go tomorrow. And as I just said, Ed, I'm not going to let you guys take a picture of me without my shirt on.

HENRY: OK.

OBAMA: But there will be -- there will be proof, because you guy also tease me just like the last time -- well, I was on the front page of -- people commenting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's good.

HENRY: What do you think about the reaction to your speech about the mosque? What about the reaction to your speech?

OBAMA: Well, my intention was to simply let people know what I thought, which was that, in this country, we treat everybody equally, in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion.

I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making a decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right that people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about.

And I think it's very important that, you know, as difficult as some of these issues are, we stay focused on who we are as a people and what our values are all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: So, that was the key right there. The president trying to say he was not speaking directly about the wisdom of whether or not the mosque should be built, but just standing up for the principle of religious freedom.

That's not satisfying many Republicans who have been speaking out, like New York Congressman Peter King, who says the president's original comments were insensitive.

Although I will tell you, I spoke today to Charlie Crist, the state's governor who was elected at Republican, now running for Senate as independent, and he said he completely agrees with the president that while the situation in New York is not perfect, that you got to stand up for the principle of religious freedom.

So, this debate is going to go on, Don.

LEMON: OK. The president said, and we talked earlier. You said there was a distinction, really not a clarification, about the mosque near Ground Zero. But I hear the White House is offering more of a distinction right now about that proposed mosque.

HENRY: Yes. It's almost a clarification of the clarification, in a way. Because of the president's comments to CNN, it sparked a lot of media speculation that perhaps the president was backing off what he said last night.

White House spokesman Bill Burton just put out a statement saying, quote, "Just to be clear, the president is not backing off in any way from the comments he made last night. It is not his role as president so pass judgment on every local project. But it is his responsibility to stand up for the constitutional principle of religious freedom and equal treatment for all Americans."

So, you can see, even as the president is trying to give the broader context here, as he did to CNN and we've been trying all day to put it in that full context, there's been so much controversy kicked up in New York about this very emotional issue that now the White House is having to sort of clarify the clarification, Don.

LEMON: Yes. Clarify the clarification, not just in New York, all around the country, really. But the heart of it is really in New York.

Senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry, joining us from the Gulf of Mexico, down there with the president -- we appreciate it.

You know, politically, it is risky for the president to weigh in on the mosque controversy because it's become such an explosive issue. Republicans, like Newt Gingrich, House Minority Leader John Boehner and New York Congressman Peter King really wasted no time in ripping into the president after his comments.

But New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Florida Governor Charlie Crist, both former Republicans turned independents, are backing the president's stance. In the court of public opinion, however, reaction is, well, mixed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- to America.

DEXTER MAXWELL, NEW YORK RESIDENT: I'm glad he interjected because the Muslims have the right to pray. It's Ramadan. We have synagogues, churches everywhere. I'm proud of him. I'm proud of the United States.

KATHY LAMBERT, NEW YORK RESIDENT: There's plenty of realty all over Manhattan, plenty of realty everywhere. It shouldn't be here. This really is sacred. I just came from Ground Zero, two blocks away. It's heartbreaking and then to just walk here, I can just spit on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

LEMON: And stay tuned for more on this controversy really starting in New York.

Police in buffalo, New York, have charged 25-year-old Keith Johnson with four counts of murder after an early-morning shooting left four people dead. Another four people were wounded in the early hours of Saturday morning outside a downtown Buffalo restaurant.

Details are murky but it's believed that a fight broke out immediately before the shooting inside the restaurant. Among the dead, two are men and two are women. One of the victims was celebrating, a man, he was celebrating his wedding anniversary.

Pakistan's prime minister says 20 million people have been affected by catastrophic floods. Yousaf Raza Gilani spent Pakistan's Independence Day handing out aid to the victims of the flooding. Celebrations for the holiday were cancelled across Pakistan. The government said money saved would be donated to flood recovery efforts. One-fifth of Pakistan, an area the size of Florida, has flooded in the past two days.

From the New Black Panthers to Shirley Sherrod to the Tea Party, race has been a big issue this summer. Now, radio host, Dr. Laura, has burst into discussion using the N-word repeatedly on radio. Everyone has been talking about it and then we're going to talk about it next.

I'm going to play her remarks and then we're going to have a conversation of our own here, a very candid and opened conversation. It is: is it ever OK? That's what we're asking -- to use the N-word and what that the worst of what she said?

And we want to hear from you. Make sure you join me on Twitter or on Facebook. Send us your comments about this topic or any of the stories that we're covering here. Check out my blog at CNN.com, and look for us on Foursquare. Check in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK, guys, here we go. And get ready to weigh in and probably talk back to the television. Is it ever OK -- ever -- to use the N- word?

Dr. Laura Schlessinger burned up the airwaves this week when she suggested it might be, because it's widely heard in parts of the African-American community, especially among rap artists and comedians. I want you to listen as Dr. Laura talks with a caller who is black and who's husband is white, called her for advice.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CALLER: I was a little caught back by the N-word that you spewed out. I have to be honest with you. But my point is, race relations --

DR. LAURA SCHLESSINGER, RADIO HOST: Oh, then I guess you don't watch HBO or listen to any black comedians.

CALLER: But that does not make it right.

SCHLESSINGER: Yes, I think you have too much sensitivity --

CALLER: So, it's OK to say (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

SCHLESSINGER: -- and not enough sense of humor.

CALLER: It's OK to say that word?

SCHLESSINGER: Well, it depends how it's said.

CALLER: Is it OK to say that word? Is it ever OK to say that word?

SCHLESSINGER: It's -- it depends how it's said. Black guys talking to each other seem to think it's OK.

CALLER: But you're not black. They're not black. My husband is white.

SCHLESSINGER: Oh, see. So, a word is restricted to race. Got it. Can't do much about that.

CALLER: I can't believe someone like you is on the radio spewing out the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) word and I hope everybody heard it.

SCHLESSINGER: I did not spew out the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) word.

CALLER: You said, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

SCHLESSINGER: Right, I said that's what you hear.

CALLER: Everybody heard it.

SCHLESSINGER: Yes, they did.

CALLER: I hope everybody heard it.

SCHLESSINGER: They did, and I'll say it again.

CALLER: So what makes it OK for you to say the word?

SCHLESSINGER: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) is what you hear on HB -- why don't you let me finish a sentence?

CALLER: OK.

SCHLESSINGER: Don't take things out of context. Don't double NAACP me.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: So, let's talk. Dr. Laura, she issued an apology and the next day, acknowledging she was wrong. She said, I'm wrong, I shouldn't have used -- I think she said I articulated the N-word all the way out and I should not have done that.

So, I want to bring in our panel to discuss this now.

Jill Merritt is a cofounder of AbolishtheNWord.com. Thank you, Jill, for joining us.

There's John Ridley, the founding editor of ThatMinorityThing.com.

And, of course, Tim Wise, the author of "Colorblind."

Thanks to all of you for joining me.

And so, let's do it. And some people are saying, do we have to talk about this? Yes, I think we need to talk about it. But we should talk about it more. Obvious, it's an issue right now.

OK. Tim, starting with you, your initial reaction to Dr. Laura.

TIM WISE, AUTHOR, "COLORBLIND": Well, I mean, my initial reaction is that, unfortunately, the kind of things that she was saying to this caller, not the N-word part per se but the rest of her response in which she basically dismissed this woman's concerns about racism in her own life, were all too common. It's not just Laura Schlessinger. It is, in fact, the view of millions of white Americans who whenever people of color bring up the issue of racism in their lives, we seem to want to say, oh, you're hypersensitive. You're seeing things. You have a chip on your shoulder.

And I really think and I hope that we understand this kind of dismissiveness for the racism that it is, even without the N-word, because what that amounts to saying is that you black people are so irrational, so illogical, so unintelligent that you can't even be trusted to interpret your own life. So, let me and my whiteness interpret your reality for you.

That's fundamentally racist even if the N-word had never been used.

LEMON: Jill?

JILL MERRITT, CO-FOUNDER, ABOLISHTHENWORD.COM: Hi. You know, at first glance, I was upset. I was angered. There was outrage.

But I have to say, after looking deeper into the issue, for me, I've just decided that there's a bigger problem here at hand. What's going on with the N-word, we've been working over the last four years -- speaking about the N-word, abolishing the N-word but there's something else that's pushing through. We need to talk about this and that's why it keeps coming up. We need to sit at the table and discuss racism.

There is racism in America and we need to stop trying to sweep it under the rug and act like it doesn't exist.

LEMON: John?

JOHN RIDLEY, FOUNDING EDITOR, THATMINORITYTHING.COM: Well, you know, I mean, look, when I heard it, I have to be honest, I wasn't surprised. I mean, this is Dr. Laura, consider the source. She's proved herself in the past to be homophobic, to be divisive, to be anti-feminist in some ways. So, I wasn't surprised.

I do agree with Tim and Jill that I think there are bigger issues. And that word itself were something like a speed bump. I mean, she said things in her rant like "black-think" or she said things to this woman that if you can't deal with these problems in a interracial married, you shouldn't get married outside of your race. So, I think what she's talking about is much larger than the N-word itself. We tend to get caught up on that. It's a lightning rod.

But, again, I agree with your guest. There's a conversation to be had here. I really don't think, unfortunately, it's much of a conversation that can really be had in America.

LEMON: You know, I do think that it is a lightning rod sometimes and I wonder if it's sort of -- if it's a diversion, sometimes, from looking at the real issue as Jill said.

John, you say that using this word is like gay people using the word "queer" or other words. You think that those two terms are equal and have basically, the same emotional power?

RIDLEY: Well, I think it can be. I mean, the thing about the N-word is, yes, it has a very unfortunate history. But the reality is, if we try to take it off the table, the only people who are going to use it are going to be bigots and knuckleheads like Dr. Laura. I think -- the thing that we can do is try to remove the sting from that word. To try to abolish it is the laudable goal but I don't know --

LEMON: But here's the thing -- and I hate to interrupt you, because in this country, we have freedom of speech and Dr. Laura certainly has freedom of speech and she can say whatever she wants. That's just what we do here. And we don't want to go back to banning words and banning books and burning books and all that.

So, do we really want to abolish the N-word? That's what rappers really say when they use the N-word. They say -- they're take the word back to take some of the sting out of it, but there are people who are also bothered by rappers using it as well, Tim?

WISE: Right. Well, I mean, I think whether or not black folks are going to use the word, that's a debate for black folks to have. I really don't think anyone who isn't black

LEMON: OK.

WISE: -- ought to be in on that.

Let me give you an analogy to make the point. I'm from the South, I don't much like the word "redneck" because I know it's often a slur against rural, working class whites. But I got to be honest, when Jeff Foxworthy, the comedian, does 20 minutes of redneck jokes, it doesn't offend me that way it would have been if it were Jerry Seinfeld doing it because Foxworthy is in that family. It sort of goes back to that wisdom we understood in the third grade, which is: I can talk about my momma, but you had better not talk about my momma. And I think that's something we need to understand it.

If white folks don't like it, oh, it's a double standard. Why can't I use the word, too (ph)? History is a double standard, deal with that first and we can talk about the rest.

LEMON: And you remember "All in the Family," the Jeffersons, they would say, you know, "honky." and the other words. I don't even like to say the other word, which is, you know, something that you eat. But George Jefferson would say it all the time and Archie Bunker would say it all the time and no one would flinch. I'm sure, probably, you got some criticism back then.

I'm sorry, Jill, I cut you off.

MERRITT: Yes. You know, I just want to say that the N-word is not a word that black people own. It's not a word that we should own and it's not a word that we should try to own.

I believe deeply that the N-word is a racist word. It belongs in the same category as every other racial epithet. And to try to own it, to try to make it a term of endearment, to take the sting out of it, to just play with it in the way that some of us have, it really is -- it's dangerous. You know, it's a word that's racist and it belongs to the racist. If they want to say it, that's fine.

LEMON: All right. Listen, we have to go to break and we're going to come back and talk about this. I wonder, though, even if by sitting here, doing this, and having this conversation if we're giving too much power to that word, even more power than we should be giving it in the year 2010 -- and I wonder, as I said, if it's become a distraction?

So, I want to move on past the N-word unless you have another comment. On the other side of the break, we're going to talk more about what's really going on here? What's at the bottom of this? And we're going to also take some of your comments.

We'll back in a moment. We'll handle this, really, really tough topic. Our conversation, again, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: OK. Back with our conversation now.

We're going John Ridley, Tim Wise and, also, Jill Merritt, joining me to talk about Dr. Laura Schlessinger's use of the N-word.

OK. So, here's my thing -- you know, in my personal life, I do this, I talk to you guys about this as a journalist because it's part of the national conversation. I really don't care what someone calls me. If someone calls me that, then it's really more of a reflection on them if they call me the N-word. And some of the people on Twitter are agreeing. Someone says Dr. Laura was completely correct. Someone says, "I'm a black person and I really don't care what a white person calls me. It is recrimination and violence that matters."

Tim, what do you think about that? Is -- have I gone too far and people like the folks on Twitter have gone too far by saying, "I really don't care what you call me, you can call me that all day long, I really don't care"?

WISE: Well, the fact that people don't let it bother them or say they don't is one thing. That doesn't mean that we ought to have license to use it as an act of verbal violence. I think the biggest thing that Dr. Laura that was the problem, though -- and I think this is what the research says -- you know, the most problematic thing she said there was a part where the caller said, you know, a lot of times, my husband and his friend say things like, you know, what do black people this think? Is this what black people think?

And that may not sound racist, but what we know from the research is that when black and brown folks in this country feel like they're constantly having to represent for the whole group, constantly on display, constantly under a microscope, that that actually has a physical, physiological, emotional effect on people that's even greater than the use of the word. Because the thing about the word, it's so blatant. Everyone can process that. You can see what it is right away.

The subtle stuff is actually for destructive according to health research and I wish we would deal with that because I think that's the worse thing that Dr. Laura Schlessinger actually did.

LEMON: That was I was going to say here, John Ridley. Where do -- where do we go from here? I know what he's talking about when I used to call it the African-American authority when people would ask me, why, you know, about African-American or about black issues, you feel like you're the African-American authority.

So, where do we go from here, John?

RIDLEY: We'll take it to the meeting, Don. We'll go to the meeting and then we'll find out when we answer the questions.

LEMON: Where do we go from here?

RIDLEY: You know, it's difficult because, as you say, we all want to have these discussions about race and we want to try to get beyond it. But the problem is, the people who really need to have the discussion, whether they are white or black or Hispanic or Asian, they tend to self-segregate and they're not going to have this discussions.

People like you and the rest of the panel, we can have an intellectual discussion, but I think, more importantly, is that we go back to integrated groups and we have a discussion about our kids, we have discussions about lawn care or cars or schools, and we talk as people and we find out that we're really not that different and we generally have the same concerns. Maybe we don't approach them the same way, but we're folks.

And so, yes, it'd be great to have a conversation about race, but as I said earlier, the people who need it can't have it and won't have it. The people who should have it have different conversations that, quite frankly, are better conversations.

LEMON: Hey, Jill, I hate to give you (INAUDIBLE) -- unfortunately, we're out of time. We have a short broadcast tonight because we have a special on at 7:30. Thank you guys. I really appreciate you coming on.

RIDLEY: Thank you.

MERRITT: Thank you.

WISE: Thank you, Don. Appreciate it.

LEMON: All right. One of R&B's biggest stars is giving kids a new look on life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES HARRIS, MEMBER, THE NEW LOOK FOUNDATION: Caught with weed at school, my two teachers, they were like my favorite teachers, they turned me in. And when they turned me in, I felt betrayed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: How did Usher help get this student and many others back in the classroom and back on track. That story is next.

Plus, it's been nearly five years since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans. We'll introduce you to three CNN heroes determined to bring the city back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, you may know Usher as an R&B sensation, but he does a lot more than sing and dance. He's a mentor to kids all around the country.

And our education contributor, Steve Perry, has more in tonight's edition of "Perry's Principles."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): A couple of years ago, James Harris was a troubled teen with little direction in life.

JAMES HARRIS, MEMBER, THE NEW LOOK FOUNDATION: Caught with weed at school, my two teachers, they were like my favorite teachers, they turned me in. And when they turned me in, I felt betrayed.

PERRY: But those teachers steered James towards The New Look Foundation, a nonprofit founded by Grammy Award-winning artist, Usher. Kids learn skills and get hands-on training to help them develop into leaders in business and their communities.

(on camera): So, how was it that you get these kids hooked in?

USHER RAYMOND IV, FOUNDER, THE NEW LOOK FOUNDATION: It's ultimately about introducing them to real world experiences.

SHAWN WILSON, PRESIDENT, THE NEW LOOK FOUNDATION: We want the train the youth how to take an issue, and for them to lead the change, for them to train their peers, and for them to get their friends and families involved in solving some of these key issues.

PERRY: You seem to have found a strategy to meet children where they are, and get them to do good things for themselves, and others.

WILSON: That's right.

PERRY: Where did that come from?

WILSON: I mean, I think it ultimately started with Usher. He said we want to work with youth. We want to, you know, do these things. But more importantly, he said we need to listen to them. Because we don't do that enough in our society, we don't ask kid what is it that you want, and we don't give them a voice.

USHER: A lot of the kids that we have chosen to motivate come from impoverished homes and broken areas, and we can't even begin to deal with all those issues. But what we can do is plant a seed that will allow those children to see the light.

PERRY (voice-over): Steve Perry, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Steve, thanks very much.

Up next: it was 2005 when Hurricane Katrina destroyed much of New Orleans. Five years later, three extraordinary CNN heroes are determined to bring it back.

CNN's Anderson Cooper tells their inspiring story, "Coming Back from Katrina."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)