Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Huge Graduation Gap for Minorities; Toddlers Found in Submerged Car; New Study on Teen Sex and School Performance

Aired August 17, 2010 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: So, what could you do if one of every two teenage boys you knew were doomed to not graduate high school? In the African-American community, that's a grim reality. A new report shows that nationwide only 47 percent of black males get their high school diplomas. Now, compare that with 78 percent of white male students who earn theirs. It's a stunning gap.

In this hour, we're studying why so many students are slipping through the cracks. We're going to take a look at solutions and success stories with CNN education contributor Steve Perry in just a moment.

But first, let's dissect the problem. Josh Levs has been digging into the numbers for us. So, Josh, what were you able to find?

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra. These numbers are pretty amazing. I've been looking at this is a report from the Schott (pH) Foundation, you know, which specifically focuses on trying to build equity in our nation's schools and challenging some of the presumptions and looking at some of the really rough statistics.

Let's do this. We're going to zoom through these. I want to go back to the beginning here. Let's have a look - I don't think I can do this myself but let's take a look at these screens here. I want to break down some of these numbers because they are stunning.

What you see when you take a look at here is they're talking about a few states where they say there's a huge gap. And that's what seems to concern the most. They call it the alarming gap states. And a couple that they point to Nebraska. Take a look here, the black male graduation rate is 40 percent and the white male graduation rate is 83 percent.

Let's go to the next screen here. Another state they're saying where there is a major difference between the graduation rates of white students and black students. I think we can advance it, over to New York where they're saying - guys, can we advance it a little bit more? Sorry, we're having some technical problems here.

There you go. Black male graduation rate 25 percent in the state of New York. According to this, white male graduation rate, 68 percent. So when you look at that on the front, you say, clearly, there are a series of problems. Now the Schott Foundation talks (INAUDIBLE) about schools and what's going on in schools. The fact is there is an entire society of problem. You can look at all sorts of factors for it but what they're doing that is helpful is they are breaking it down into individual districts where there are problems.

Go to the next screen Look at Jefferson Parish, Louisiana, the black male graduation rate they're saying is 28 percent. This is all from the 2007 to 2008 school year. The white male graduation rate 44 percent. Now, if you stop and look at this, neither of those are good. We never want to see graduation rates in general for anyone that low but what they're talking about are these differences and these challenges.

Let's go to another screen here. New York City, black male graduation rate, 28 percent. White male graduation rate, 50 percent. Again, both are really bad. Now, I want you to see something else because I think this is really important.

Let's go to the next screen. Detroit, Michigan, look at the switch here. The black male graduation rate there, according to this report, 27 percent. But look at the white male graduation rate, 19 percent. So even as we are talking about the challenges facing the African-American community about things that need to be done to improve schools and improve the outside of school experiences to improve performances inside schools, it's clearly not just a problem among black students.

One more thing I want you to see here. They're saying the best example in the country where there has been improvement is Newark, New Jersey. I know we're going to be hearing a lot more about that throughout the day. Black male graduation rate there is they're saying is 75 percent and actually well above the white male graduation rate.

So again, this is a national problem but what's happening with this report as we dissect it this morning is we're having a fresh look at this challenge for black students in America, and Kyra, clearly, we're seeing from all this that a lot of work needs to be done.

PHILLIPS: All right. Josh, we're going to continue this conversation in just a second. Steve Perry, our education contributor. Steven, hold on. But first, I want to take you live right now to South Carolina where a 29-year-old mother, Shaquan Duley is facing murder charges with the drowning of her two children. Let's listen in.

SHERIFF LARRY WILLIAMS, ORANGEBURG COUNTY, SOUTH CAROLINA: ... on nonbelievability on some of the statements to several of the statements that she had made to investigators, and she was charged at that point with leaving the scene of an accident. In the first report to the sheriff's office, the report was that the mother of the Chrysler product was driving and, of course, had an accident, and - but there was no evidence to be discovered of an accident of any type so reported by the victim or the mother.

There was no physical evidence as far as any vehicle leaving the road or any skid marks or anything of that nature that would be relevant to an automobile accident. It was our early determination that this vehicle in the Edisto River by either being intentionally placed there or rolling from the secondary highway down to the river. Through the evening, officers of the sheriff's office worked on some of the things that we didn't believe. We felt that the story that she was telling us wasn't factual. She talked with us at length. Of course, we had given her ample time to rest between our interviews, and we then began to talk with her again, and, of course, talked with her about her children and her background and any issues that night that she was having with her children or any of her family members, and at the conclusion of our lengthy evening on last night, the determination or the statement was made by the mother that she had suffocated the children and, of course, the children were dead when they was placed into the water.

She has given that statement to that effect, and, of course we're still working the investigation as being reported by being the recipient of a statement from the mother, now a defendant, of murder, which we have this morning served two warrants of murder against Mrs. Duley for the death of her children.

We have - we feel very positive about the investigation. We feel that although there are many loose ends yet to be tied up and we're moving forward with that, but she's being held. Presently, we will have an arraignment on Wednesday -- Thursday - Wednesday at 2:00 a.m., in which she will be formally charged by the summary courts here in South Carolina, which at that time she will not be given a bond.

The laws don't allow an individual to appear before a summary judge for a bond, but, of course, she will be taken before a circuit court judge to have a bond if one is given to her. I'll take any questions you have at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sheriff, you mentioned that she had talked about some issues she was having with the children. Can you elaborate on that?

WILLIAMS: She was a mother that was unemployed. She had no means of taking care of her children. She lived with her mother, and her mother was a very, I guess, firm individual, and believed in values, from what we can determine, and she often talked with her daughter about, I guess, maybe being more of a mother, being more reliable, I guess, in a way.

And, of course, the day before - the night before the kids were placed into the river, there was a dispute between the mother and Mrs. Duley, and we believe this is a direct response from Miss Duley. I believe she was fed up with her mother telling her that she couldn't take care of the children or she wasn't taking care of the children and she just wanted to be free, and we believe that her thoughts were "for me to be free, for me to do what I wish to do, whatever that may be, if I didn't have the children, I will get rid of them," and we believe that's what our theory is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think it was premeditated?

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not sure. Of course, you know, it's still early, but I believe there was some emotional rush, and, of course, I think that the opportunity presented itself and she reacted to whatever condition presented itself for her to get rid of the children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she say how she suffocated them?

WILLIAMS: By placing her hand over their mouths.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does she have another child?

WILLIAMS: Yes. She has a five-year-old, also.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is that child currently?

WILLIAMS: With the grandmother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So the (INAUDIBLE) that we talked about yesterday was this woman was all about her kids, that she talked about flash cards that one of them were getting and she just adored her kids, and she didn't believe this. And this mom, was she on some type of medication, did she just spaz out? What happened? Was she sick?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I guess from a humanistic side of this and the lawful side, looking at what had transpired, that was a question I had also, and the response has been to me, of course, that the mom has been basically a good mom. She was just unable to financially support the children and she had been asked by her mother to take care of the children and to be, I guess, a mom, and for whatever reasons, her weakest moment, in a weakest moment resulted in the death of her children, but, here again, we are still looking into other concerns. It's still early into our investigation at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You say she was stressed and depressed?

WILLIAMS: Pardon me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Depressed? Was she stressed?

WILLIAMS: She wasn't poised. She was emotionally distraught. Talking with my investigators, she would do high and lows. You know, she would be one moment emotional and one moment not. Of course, there was a mixture of her responses to the investigators, but, just I believe as my chief of investigators and I discussed this morning, she hadn't really gone full throttle then in her emotions at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: do you think she could be suffering from postpartum depression?

WILLIAMS: Possibly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is the father to these kids and the five-year-old?

WILLIAMS: The father has yet to be found. I believe there was no correlation between the father of the children and Mrs. Duley. I think she was more or less being mother and father for the children, what we discovered thus far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any reason why the third child, the five-year-old, was not involved in this incident?

WILLIAMS: Well, we're not certain.

PHILLIPS: Well, this is one of those stories that is heart- wrenching to have to tell you about. But you know, it was 16 years ago that we learned about Susan Smith and that murder case. You remember the mom who found her car submerged, her kids dead inside and later on it came to light that she was dealing with postpartum among other things, and now we're hearing from Sheriff Larry Williams here in South Carolina that the same thing might have happened there in the Edisto River yesterday.

Apparently according to the sheriff, this unemployed mom who was living with her mom with three kids, 29-year-old Shaquan Duley who is now facing murder charges, by the way, got into a fight with her mother. The mother apparently saying she didn't feel like she was doing well with the kids. Her daughter saying she wanted to be free.

The next thing you know, her children end up submerged at the bottom of the river, dead in the car and now as you heard from the sheriff, the 29-year-old Shaquan Duley is facing murder charges, possible post partum situation, according to the sheriff there. They're not quite sure yet and they don't know the whereabouts of the father but apparently the kids were living with the grandmother and the mom, Shaquan Duley.

A five-year-old daughter was not in that car. She survived. The other two kids, one and two, both found dead at the bottom of the river. We will follow this case for you.

We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So what would you do if one of every two teenage boys you knew were doomed to not graduate high school. In the African- American community that's a grim reality. A new report shows that nationwide only 47 percent of black males get their high school diplomas. Compare that with 78 percent of white male students who earn theirs.

It's a stunning gap. In this hour, we're studying why so many students are slipping through the cracks. We're going to get to CNN education contributor Steve Perry in just a second but first, take a listen to what Education secretary Arne Duncan said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNE DUNCAN, EDUCATION SECRETARY: Poverty is not destiny. (INAUDIBLE) that want to tell you that poverty is destiny. It is absolutely not. What we have to do is provide opportunity. So my challenge to the men in the audience and my challenge to the African- American men, Latino men around the country is that be part of the solution. Step up. And if you do that, the impact you're going to have is going to be absolutely extraordinary, way more gratifying than anything you can do. (END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's bring in our CNN education contributor Steve Perry now. So Steve, here's what's interesting. In this study, it talked about how important preschool is, and it talked about New Jersey, in particular, and the fact that it's got full-time preschool. How much of an impact does that play? And do parents realize how much of an impact that can make?

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: It's not so much what the parents realize or don't realize. The fact remains, Kyra, that our children, especially African-American males are going to some of the worst schools in the United States of America. It makes no sense to me that in Indianapolis where the same report reported that 19 percent of the African-American boys graduated from high school, that that school system is allowed to exist and people are allowed to be employed by that.

Whereby we look at some of the New England states, we look at a state like Maine, in which you have almost 70 or 80 percent of the African-American males graduating. What we've seen throughout the country is that there are successful models that have shown that they can graduate African-American males in the same cities in which they can't graduate them.

It's not so much that the parents know or don't know, it's what the options that they have are. When the only option that they have is a horrible, failing school system, then you can put all of the work you want in, at the back end, 47 percent of the African-American males who are graduating, I'll be willing to bet some 50 percent of those are reading between three and four grade levels behind.

PHILLIPS: So back to that, the program that they offer in New Jersey, these free preschool classes, and the fact that it's full time and they start early on, and they have a curriculum. What is happening there that's contributing to the successful graduation rates?

PERRY: New Jersey schools as a state - New Jersey's public schools are typically very strong schools, and one of the things they did was they understood that African-American males had as much of a right as any other student to graduate from high school. So they began to backfill. They began to create an academic experience that will engage the children where they were and begin to improve upon their skills.

In many states such as Georgia, not only African-American children are failing but white children are failing. So no one should feel safe in a setting in which so many children are failing academically.

PHILLIPS: And the survey as we talked a little bit there addresses, you know, you've got to address these high poverty needs but how do you do that when they're just isn't the money there to address those needs? PERRY: Kyra, actually, money is not the issue. In fact, many of the charter and magnet schools and many of America's most successful schools actually spend less money per pupil. In fact, if you look at the schools, one of the lowest performing schools in the country in New Jersey, which is Newark. They spend over $22,000 per pupil to fail.

Many of these schools in that school system are some of the lowest performing schools in the state and the nation. So we know it's not money. What it is having high expectations, high support and an academic experience that makes sure that every single child performs.

You can look in cities like Detroit and Chicago and you can find successful schools. You can go to New York where 25 percent, between 25 and 32 percent of the African-American males are said to be graduating, and then you can look at an Eagle Academy, which is a school in New York City that is graduating 100 percent of its African- American males.

We know how to do this. The real tragedy in all is that we know the answers. We don't have to look under any more rocks. We know how to run successful schools.

PHILLIPS: So why aren't we doing it?

PERRY: There are a lot of reasons. One of them is because there are too many people making a living off maintaining the status quo because as long as these failing schools stay in place, there are many, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars being made by individuals and groups that allow them to maintain the systems.

They are fighting the expansion of successful school so they can maintain their stake in the failed schools. Whether or not they want to say it that way, that's ultimately what it is. Until we put children first and say that children's needs and children's performance is tantamount to success, then and only then will we begin to deliver the academic experience that every a single child in this country is due by their constitutional rights.

PHILLIPS: So there's got to be more accountability and how do we do that? I mean, we know that parents' involvement. That's a no- brainer. Every parent should get more involved in their child's school and with their child's learning process, but, you know, this report talks a lot about government accountability. So what exactly do we mean by that?

PERRY: Specifically what needs to happen is whatever the litmus tests are, whatever they may be state standardized tests or whatever it is, whatever myriad of examples that are used to create the matrix by which every school is determined to be successful, whatever it is, it has to be maintained and therefore, every school that is unsuccessful must be closed. It's just that simple.

When a school cannot educate. We cannot allow it to continue. Because what's happening is it's hurting children. We know that when children don't graduate from high school, they are far more likely to suffer from every social ill that we know of. That we know of. Because they simply don't have access to a quality education.

If you think of the following, Kyra, one of the first things that we do when we come up, so to speak, when we get our own education and move into the middle class is move to a better community. For one reason, good schools. Everyone in this country understands that one of the reasons why you or live in a particular area is so you can have access to quality schools.

Further, the main reason why most people come to this country is for a better education. So if everyone throughout the world understands that access to a quality education is essential to your own development as a person, then why are we robbing an entire generation of African-American children from access to that?

Because maintenance of the status quo, meaning keeping the public schools in the neighborhoods that are failing open and operational is a way to ensure that the teachers and the principals and the superintendents and assistant superintendents all keep their jobs while at the same time ensuring that the children never have access to those types of jobs.

PHILLIPS: It's just a shame. It all comes down to - you're right, we know what we got to do. We just got to do it.

Steve Perry, we know you are on a daily basis. That's for sure. Appreciate you weighing in today. Thanks, Steve.

PERRY: Sure.

PHILLIPS: So intentional Facebookers, don't fall for the dislike button. It's a trap. We know it's tempting especially when you see status update that makes you cringe but don't click the button unless you like being ripped off. More about that, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, checking top stories.

The U.N. and aid agencies says that the world has fallen short in its response to the Pakistan flooding. Clean water and medical supplies are in great demand. Up to 3.5 million children are at risk for deadly water-borne diseases.

And at least 48 people were killed today by a suicide bomber in Baghdad. The attackers struck outside an Iraqi Army recruitment center, and that bombing comes as U.S. combat troops prepare to leave Iraq in just two weeks.

And a study says that oil from the ruptured BP well has moved further east than first thought and it's threatening our food chain. Researchers say that dispersants may have sent oil droplets to the gulf floor where they're being eaten by small fish.

And if you use Facebook, be aware of a fake dislike button. Security experts say it's a scam. So watch out for posted links that take you to the fake Facebook app because it spreads the link to your online friends and contacts.

All right. Teens and sex are a bad combination. That's the running logic, but a new study actually found that it's promiscuity that makes the difference, specifically when it comes to academic performance. Researchers found that students who hooked up, had friends with benefits or bed buddies had worse grades than kids who abstained but for teens who are having sex with committed partners, they fared no better or worst than girls who were not having sex.

So teen sex is not always a bad thing. To talk about it, we got Peter Sprigg of the Family Research Council and an ordained Baptist minister also joining us, one of the authors of that study, sociologist Bill McCarthy from the University of California Davis. Good to have you both.

So, Bill, you know, obviously the headline that grabbed us is that teen sex not bad for school performance. I mean, that's where everybody stopped in their tracks and said, "what, I don't want to hear this." But and we'll get to that in just a minute, but, first, you did point out in this study that teen girls who abstained from sex versus teens that have casual sex teens - well, those casual sex teens definitely had lowing GPAs?

BILL MCCARTHY, SOCIOLOGIST, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA DAVIS: Yes, we looked at a number of educational outcomes, from GPA, aspirations for college, being suspended or expelled, and we found that when you divide the adolescents who are sexually active into two groups, you find that boys and girls who are having sex with a romantic partner, that has very little negative consequences for their educational outcomes compared to the youths who are having sex with partners they decide or they designate as nonromantic. For both boys and girls who are having sex with nonromantic partners, their educational outcomes are much worse.

PHILLIPS: And Peter, that didn't surprise, you, right?

PETER SPRIGG, SENIOR FELLOW, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, it's no a surprise that kids that are engaging in one-night stands and promiscuous sexual relationships would suffer more negative consequences than those who are not engaged in that behavior.

But, still, we can draw really only limited conclusions from this study about teen sex in general because it ignores the most fundamental negative consequences of teen sex, which are higher rates of out-of -wedlock pregnancy leading to abortions, out-of-wedlock births, higher rates of sexually transmitted disease and psychological and emotional consequences as well.

So, to go from this study and conclude that teen sex is really not harmful and, therefore, we should do away with abstinence education is a huge leap that can't be justified.

PHILLIPS: Bill, that's where parents get really concerned with something like this because you're finding that kids in committed sexual relationships, not so bad for school performance. But then parents do worry about all of those other things that Peter just brought up.

MCCARTHY: Yes. And there's a good bit of research now done with this data set, the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health which explores some of those questions. And we do see a similar pattern in earlier research I did with a graduate student at University of California-Davis, and we found the same pattern. That kids in romantic relationships were not significantly different than virgins in terms of their drug use and delinquency a year later.

Other researchers at the University of Minnesota looked at the relationship between sexual activity and depression and found a similar pattern. Kids in committed relationships -- have sex with a romantic partner -- aren't more depressed subsequently after that sex, whereas kids in these more, perhaps risky relationships, are.

It appears that the negative effects that we associate with sex may not be so straightforward. We know, for example, between 25 and 50 percent of all high school students start their sex life during adolescence, but we know that 50 percent of students aren't depressed, aren't taking drugs, aren't committing delinquency, aren't failing out of school. So, the relationship isn't so clear.

PHILLIPS: Well, Bill let me ask you. I'm just going to be really blunt here, because back when I was in high school and we're going back a few decades here, OK -- if you had sex in high school, you were a slut. End of story. That's just how it was. So, what's changed?

MCCARTHY: Well, I think part of the -- some good research that spending time with adolescents, asking them to talk about how they think about sex suggest that adolescents are sensitive to those differences, that they divide their friends into - and their acquaintances into - groups of people. Those having sex with romantic partners are not as stigmatized as those having sex in more casual relationships. And that's changed somewhat over the years, but there is a negative stigma associated with having more types - more casual sex. And it varies across schools and settings, but there is that general pattern.

PHILLIPS: So, Peter, what's happened, if, indeed, this stigma - you know, I guess -- it sounds like it kind of is still there, but it's not really there. What happened to kind of that old-fashioned look at you just don't do that in high school?

SPRIGG: Well, I mean, we've seen a hypersexualization of our entire culture over the last five decades or so. And so, it would be surprising if that didn't have an impact on teenagers as well.

But I think we need to look at the big picture here. There's simply no question that the safest practice for teenagers, both in terms of their physical health and in terms of their mental health, is to abtain from sex altogether until marriage. And all of these detailed breakdowns of the groups and so forth are -- seem like an effort to simply evade that fundamental truth. PHILLIPS: So, Bill, I'm curious, if you were to sit down -- I don't know if you're a parent or not, but if you are or if you were, and you were sitting there with your kids. Right now with what you know after putting together this report, what would you tell your 16- year-old daughter and your 16-year-old son about having sex?

MCCARTHY: So, I am a parent. I have two 20-year-old daughters.

PHILLIPS: OK! Did you have the talk with them?

MCCARTHY: Yes, yes, when they were teenagers, the adolescent health study was first released, and some of the earlier research showed that adolescents who had made a virginity pledge, for example, did transition to sex at a slower rate and delayed that transition.

Unfortunately, those adolescents once they did start have sex, had higher rates of STIs and unprotected sex. So, my view as a parent was to give my children as much information as I could. I figured that it would be better to get the information from me rather than their peers because much, many of their friends, that information is completely wrong.

So, you want to give them as much information as you could. And so I told them that I statistically there is a good likelihood they would have sex as adolescents, and they should be as prepared for that as possible. Both emotionally and well as in terms of health decisions.

PHILLIPS: Peter? Final thought.

SPRIGG: I'm a parent also. I have a 13-year-old boy. We've talked about sex. That's the one thing, perhaps, we agree about, is that the parents should be the principal educators even beyond the schools. Certainly I've tried to share with him that the healthiest practice for him would be to abstain from sexual relations until he's met his lifelong partner in marriage.

PHILLIPS: I'll tell you one thing I'll never forget. I was actually interning for a station - we're going back decades again -- I remember Mother Teresa speaking to a group of the women she was mentoring, and she actually said to all these women, "The greatest gift you can give your husband, ladies, is your virginity." And that stuck in my mind all these years. I wish Mother Teresa was still around.

(LAUGHTER)

SPRIGG: Well, can I add, that one limitation of this health study is a fairly short-term focus, and I think it's useful to have a more longitudinal study as well because there are studies that show that those who are virgins when they marry are actually happier, healthier, they have more successful marriages and they have better sex lives. And so we need to look at the their long-term wellbeing and not just results over the course of a year or two.

PHILLIPS; Well, Bill, you've definitely established that times have changed over the years. That is for sure.

MCCARTHY: I just wanted to follow up with Peter's point that the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health is an ongoing study and now has followed these adolescents into their 20s and 30s. So, that type of research can be done with this data set. It's a remarkable data set.

PHILLIPS: Well, I appreciate you both as parents. Bill McCarthy, Peter Sprigg, thanks, guys, so much.

MCCARTHY: Thank you.

SPRIGG: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: All right. $150 billion of your money, that's how much taxpayer cash was funneled into the mortgage giants of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. And some experts are warning this could become a bottomless pit of bailouts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: $150 billion. That's how much money the federal government has pumped into Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae so far, and there's no end in sight. Stephanie Elam joining us from New York. So, Stephanie, what's the long-term plan for these housing giants?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Oh, where's my crystal ball, Kyra? Because really, the case with this one, nobody really knows. But the Obama administration is saying that they want a comprehensive reform proposal by January.

Right now, the Treasury department is holding a conference with industry experts. They are kicking around some ideas to figure out what they want to do. These are some live pictures there from that conversation.

Now, everyone know overhauling Fannie and Freddie is not going to be an easy task. Since the housing meltdown, they are pretty much the only game in town. That's why this is important. And together with the Federal Housing Administration, Fannie and Freddie now guarantee more than 90 percent of new mortgages in this country, 90 percent. So, it's really huge. So, getting rid of them and getting a mortgage could become so expensive and virtually so impossible for many Americans, Kyra, and that's why we care about this.

PHILLIPS: So, what are the options for fixing Fannie and Freddie?

ELAM: Yes. If you take a look at some of the options here, they are really all over the map. If you take a look. Some plans call for full nationalization, others call for splitting them into pieces, and there are also suggestions to phase them out altogether. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner says there is no consensus yet, but sticking with the current system is just not an option.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: We will not support returning Fannie and Freddie to the role they played before conservatorship where they fought to take market share from private competitors while enjoying the privilege of government support. We will not support a return to a system where private gains are subsidized by taxpayer losses --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: All right. So, one analyst we spoke to says Americans need to decide if we want to the government to subsidize mortgages. And he says if we do, and if we want affordable 30-year fixed rates to stick around, they need to be fully budgeted and clearly implemented so everyone knows exactly how they are happening. If not, financing a home will be more expensive, but taxpayers won't be subsidizing it.

And so obviously, Kyra, we're going to be hearing a lot more as the administration hammers this one out. But this is something that really does apply to almost every American out there who is looking to get a home. That's why we're talking about it.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Steph.

ELAM: Sure.

PHILLIPS: Hard to believe, but Karl Rove and Harry Reid actually agree on somebody. Neither thinks the Islamic center and mosque planned a couple of blocks from ground zero is a good idea. Here's Rove's argument.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH ADVISER: It is incredibly insensitive, and I think we have every reason to question the motivations of those attempting to do this. Look, in a question -- we are a country that prizes the First Amendment, the free expression of religion. We are also a country based upon sensitivity and mutual respect.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And the Senate majority leader? He thinks that the developers could have picked a better spot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: The Constitution gives us freedom of religion. I think that it's very obvious that the mosque should be built someplace else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The president hasn't gone that far. He won't say if the location of that center is a good idea. You can expect to hear a lot more about this, though, leading up to November. A senior Republican strategist that GOP candidates are being urged to bring up this issue as much as possible. Well, it's primary election day in a couple of Western states. In Washington, the Senate contest has drawn a crowded field. Five Democrats, six Republicans, a centrist and two independents. Democratic senator Patty Murray and Republican Dino Rossi are expected to emerge as winners. In Wyoming, Republicans are hoping to reclaim the governor's seat. It's also a crowded field. Seven Republicans and five Democrats.

President Obama hopes to give a boost to Murray's campaign with two fundraising events in Seattle today. His popularity may be down in the polls, and some Americans may be critical of his handling of the economy or the war in Afghanistan, but when it comes to fundraising, the president remains a huge draw. Since January, he's headlined 36 events across the country and raised more than $22 million. In two separate trips in Boston and Miami in April, he brought in about 5 million bucks.

Well, we've all been on the plane. The plane where a crying baby is just one of many stresses. But the way one mom handled her child and the way one flight attendant reacted is something I want to talk to you about.

(COMMECIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: It's not easy being a parent or a passenger. Parenting, well, it's never been easy. Being an airline passenger, it's gotten more stressful. Fewer flights, paying for checked bags and even carry-ones, paying for dinky snacks that used to be free, delays, missed connections, waiting on the tarmac, lost bags. You name it, we've dealt with it. Well, sitting near a crying baby just adds to it. We've all been there.

Here's a case where being a stressed parent and a stressed passenger actually collided. Watch this story from KRQE's Jim Winchester, and think about this question, too. Did the mom or the flight attendant go too far?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM WINCHESTER, KRQE-TV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the Southwest airliner rolled into Sunport around 4:30 this afternoon, airport and Albuquerque police knew they had a possible child abuse case on their hands. Authorities on the ground were contacted while the plane was en route after flight attendants and passengers say they witnessed a distraught mom trying to calm her screaming, one-year-old child.

MARSHALL KATZ, SUNPORT POLICE CHIEF: At some point, it appears to be so frustrating that the mom may have yelled and may even slapped the baby.

WINCHESTER : A Southwest flight attendant immediately grabbed the baby away from its parents.

KATZ: I think it was a solid move on the part of the flight attendant to take custody of the child. In light of the situation, it calmed everybody down.

WINCHESTER: The flight attendant did return the child to its parents before the plane landed. Police took the child into their custody at the gate to perform the welfare check and determine there were no any signs of abuse. After police questioned the couple, the flight attendant and witnesses, the child was returned to the parents and were not cited.

Travelers we spoke with at Sunport split on what the flight attendant did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess it was the right thing to do because in case if they lost their cool that time, I guess it could have happened before. So, I guess that's a good caution to take

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would just maybe, can we help you or something like that, to be more courteous and understand the mother was tired.

WINCHESTER: Authorities said the incident didn't call for charges.

KATZ: We felt that it was an isolated incident.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: That brings us to today's blog question. We asked whether you think the flight attendant did the right thing or went too far. We got tons of responses from both sides.

Brian said, "They should not have given the child back to the mom. She should be put in jail. Parents should not slap children."

Lois said, "You never know when child abuse is real, so always assume it is. Things can be straightened out later, but the child will be safe."

Rose said, "She absolutely did the right thing. If this mom would slap her little baby in such a public arena, what would she be capable of doing behind closed doors?"

And Susan says, "The mother slapped the baby on the leg and not the face, which I have done numerous times just to get my child's attention. And you know what? It worked. I wouldn't definitely not call that abuse."

Jean said, "Parents' authority has been taken away. Yes, I smacked both of my children, and they both turned out just fine, upstanding adults."

And Kay says "This country has gone too far. My child, my right to spank my child."

Remember, we always love hearing from you. Just log onto CNN.com/and share your comments. Monkeying around with special effects and PETA, with resounding results, we might say.. This chimp could have been a star, but he's getting even more attention from his removal from a popular TV ad.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

PHILLIPS: It's time to lift up our men and women in uniform who have made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq or Afghanistan. It's called "Home and Away." First, we want to honor Lance Corporal Abe Howard of Williamsport, Pennsylvania. He was killed in action in Helmand province in Afghanistan just three weeks ago.

A family friend just wrote into us about Abe. He says, quote, "Abe was a great son, great friend, a terrific sportsman, an avid hunter, a musician, a prankster and above all, a true patriot. Abe was in the Marine reserves and had just filed paperwork to go full time as a U.S. Marine. He loved the life he chose, and he was honored to live his life exactly this way."

If you have a fallen hero that you'd like us to honor, here's what you have to do. Go to CNN.com/homeandaway. Type in your service member's name in the upper right-hand search field. Pull up the profile, send us your thoughts and your pictures and we'll help keep those memories alive.

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Rarely has a monkey made so many headlines as the one that used to be in a Dodge car commercial. As CNN's Jeanne Moos reports, less may be more in the case of the car-selling chimp.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the story of what happened when Dodge got a tongue lashing from the animal rights group PETA using a chimp in their commercial. This is the spot before PETA complained.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This event could not be more amazing. Wait, there's a monkey. I stand corrected.

MOOS: And this is the re-edited after-PETA-complained version.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wait, there's an invisible monkey. Unbelievable.

MOOS: Monkey see, monkey do. Do not see monkey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wait, there's an invisible monkey.

MOOS: OK, it's a chimp, not a monkey. But those who hate PETA were thrilled. Finally, someone stood up to those morons at PETA. Genius Dodge. Genius. Even if the genius who wrote this couldn't spell it. We read some of the praise to the CEO of Dodge. Good on Chrysler for giving PETA the finger. I mean --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my gosh, no, definitely not the intent.

MOOS: Some people are interpreting this as Dodge poking PETA in the eye.

AMANDA SCHINKE, PETA: That is not at all the case. The response has been completely enthusiastic.

MOOS: Not only did Dodge change the commercial, it pledged to never again use great apes.

SCHINKE: We are absolutely delighted.

MOOS: Dodge's CEO said he was touched when PETA told him baby chimps are torn from their mothers to be trained as actors, often kept in deplorable conditions, sometimes whacked, as this PETA video seems to show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, we're Dodge. We learn from our mistakes.

MOOS (on-camera): This is all great for Dodge because it turns out the invisible monkey is getting greater visibility than the original monkey.

MOOS (voice-over): All glory to the invisible monkey, posted one fan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Action.

MOOS: The invisible monkey saga became a Taiwanese animated recreation that ends with PETA and Dodge toasting the invisible monkey.

Whoever came up with the invisible monkey is the hero here, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my agency, WNK. They're awesome.

MOOS: To get from this --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wait, there's a monkey.

MOOS: To this --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, wait, there's an invisible monkey.

MOOS: They had to have the voiceover retract (ph) by the actor who plays stereokiller (ph), Dexter, no less.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not joking. I kill people.

MOOS: People maybe but at least not monkeys.

Jeanne Moos, CNN --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Make them a funny face.

MOOS: New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: That does it for us. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Tony Harris picks it up from here. Tony?

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Monkeys, real and invisible getting jobs. And actors trained at Juilliard.

PHILLIPS: Hey, we've got a plan B, my friend.

HARRIS: Plan B! Have a great day, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.