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Clergy Support Protested Mosque; Scientists Find Oil Plume in Gulf of Mexico
Aired August 20, 2010 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: OK. It's time to go. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with the man. He's in New York City: Ali Velshi.
ALI VELSHI, HOST: Is it me? Is it me, or is there always a little more gusto in your voice when you're leaving on a Friday afternoon, my friend? You have a great weekend.
HARRIS: Yes, and you're right. Have a great show, Ali.
VELSHI: All right, Tony.
I'm Ali Velshi. I'm here with you for the next two hours today and every day. Here's what I've got on the rundown this hour.
The oil well has been capped, but it looks like there's still an oily mess in the Gulf of Mexico that could linger for a long time to come. We're going to tell you about the latest disturbing discovery.
Plus, the U.S. drawdown in Iraq through the eyes of an Iraqi. We'll give you some perspective as the Iraqi people ask themselves what's next.
Here's a plot twist you might not see coming. M. Night Shyamalan joins me live this hour, and we're not talking about the movies. We're talking about changing the world.
It's an article in faith in this country that Americans can worship freely or not according to our beliefs or lack of belief, and we can voice our opinion about religion or politics or anything else. These fundamental, monumental freedoms come from the very same sentence in the Bill of Rights, and thus comes the passionate and sometimes painful exercise that's come to be known as the Ground Zero mosque debate.
If you haven't been keeping up, it centers on plans to build a $100 million Islamic community center two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan. Opponents have argued that it dishonors the memory of 9/11 victims, and many take issue with Islam itself, the religion.
That view is not confined to Manhattan. In a southern California town of Temecula, protesters confronted Muslim worshippers over plans to build a mosque next to a church. One of the protestors' signs read "Muslims danced with joy on 9/11." A broad array of Southern California religious leaders don't want that to be the final word. Last hour, they gathered in Los Angeles in defense of religious liberty in general, and in defense of the Ground Zero mosque in particular.
I'm joined now by two of those interfaith leaders, Rabbi Jonathan Klein f the group called Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice, and Jihad Turk, director of religious affairs at the Islamic Center of Southern California.
Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining me.
Rabbi Klein, let me start with you. What caused you and the others to get together to -- to take a position on this? Because it seems every time someone has taken a position in defense of allowing this mosque to be built there, they become targets from all around them.
RABBI JONATHAN KLEIN, CLERGY AND LAITY UNITED FOR ECONOMIC JUSTICE: Well, there's no question, but that this is a moment when we need the interfaith community or really the multifaith community to come together.
We have as Jews, my community, has benefited from having a community welcome for us. Over the years, we've had our hard times. But Americans have prospered in our society. There's no reason that Muslims should have any less of a fair treatment in our society. It's very frustrating.
VELSHI: Jihad Turk, we have had this discussion daily on this channel, on other channels and newspapers, and there is a growing feeling that Muslims in America are becoming more militant, or we're finding more militant people amongst Muslims of America, in some cases, American-born. What's the effect on your congregation, and the responses you've been getting from people as this discussion has been going on?
JIHAD TURK, DIRECTOR OF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS, ISLAMIC CENTER OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: Well, first let me say, Ali, that the Islamic community in the United States is really on the front lines of trying to protect our country from extremist rhetoric and extremist individuals who want to do harm to our country.
We work closely with law enforcement at the local level, at the federal level, to ensure that mosques across the country are insulated and protected from extremist rhetoric, and also can identify individuals who would want to do this country harm. So American Muslims are really the greatest ally, locally and internationally, on this war on terror. So let me just say that first.
With regards to this particular issue, you know, still I think the case is most Americans, according to a recent Pew study, don't know anything about Islam or very little. I think it was something like 60 some percent know little or nothing about Islam. And it's not surprising that a similar number have a negative impression now of Islam, given the ratcheted up rhetoric concerning the Ground Zero mosque. And the conflation -- the unfortunate conflation between Islam and terrorists. Muslims have extremists in -- we have extremists in our ranks, and we want to try and root them out, just as other religions...
VELSHI: Why is that...
TURK: Others also have extremists, where they're talking about abortion and doctor killers, et cetera.
VELSHI: Why is that not obvious? Why is it that polling shows otherwise?
TURK: Well, you know, I have to say that Muslims are kind of the new kids on the block. I mean, I'm an American Muslim. I was born and raised here. My mom is American Christian. My dad is an Arab immigrant from Jerusalem. And I just think most people don't know a Muslim personally. Muslims are relatively recent on the stage in terms of immigration and establishing themselves as, you know -- ourselves as a community here.
But I would say that what we have in our favor is that American Muslims are very integrated in society. If, you know -- if you poll the people, the American people about Islam, their impression or their information about Islam isn't from directly from Muslims or interaction with the Muslim community. It's from the news media. And so there's not really anything to counter that negative impression.
So I can't blame the average American for having a negative impression about Islam. Growing up within the tradition, the American tradition, as well as the Muslim tradition, there's no conflict there. And in fact, I feel empowered as an American Muslim to really, you know, try and take an educational role and try to take this as a teaching moment.
VELSHI: Guys, I apologize. We have a bit of a delay in our signal, which is why it sounds like we're talking over each other a little bit, and I apologize for that.
Rabbi Jonathan Klein, I want to ask you. Jews have gone through this. I talked to Bobby Gauche (ph) yesterday, who wrote the article, the cover story on "TIME" magazine, is America Islamophobic?
And this is a story the Jews have gone through for different reasons by different associations. But he said that, if we had listened to the polls, Jews still wouldn't have proper rights, blacks wouldn't be able to vote, women wouldn't have the vote in this country. Sometimes you just need leadership to get ahead of this.
But as somebody from the Jewish community befriending the Muslim community, what advice can you give in the face of a society that seems to be increasing its phobia, its fears and its prejudices against Muslims?
KLEIN: Yes. Well, it's -- really, it's amazing to watch where the Muslim community is today and compare it to where the Jewish community was 75 years ago or so. It is an uphill struggle to be given the -- the support of our tradition as Americans to support life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all, and equal and -- equality and justice. All these values that are at the core of our tradition as Americans are sometimes pushed in different communities in different ways. And the end result is that some people are left out.
And so it's really important, I think, for the Muslim community to continue to do what it has done, which is to build bridges. Jihad is a personal friend of mine. Jihad is a personal friend of a number of the rabbis in this city, and I am close to the Muslim community in my own way. It's about building bridges so that we can move past this paradigm of hatred, which tends to move the scapegoating tendencies of human beings toward the most egregious examples of hatred.
We have a tendency in America sometimes to scapegoat those for our problems that we feel are either easy targets or in the margins of our society. We have the same issue with immigrants in general.
I think that the struggle of the Muslim community is, in part, because there is a tendency for people to just want to treat the other as other, and to not love those that they don't understand.
So I think that it's important for those bridges to continue to build, which Jihad just mentioned about the deep relationship between Muslims and other parts of our society, that they are not insular entirely, as I think a good thing, for forging a path forward. It's about those bonds in American society.
VELSHI: I want to put this comment to you that Franklin Graham made on "JK USA" the other night. I'm going to -- I'm going to read you this and then I need to just take a quick break, and I'm going to ask you for your commentary on the other side.
Franklin Graham said on John King's show, quote, "The teaching of Islam is to hate Jews." You know what, I think we -- can we just play it? Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO Clip)
FRANKLIN GRAHAM, SAMARITAN'S PURSE: The teaching of Islam is to hate the Jew, to hate the Christian, to kill them. Their goal is world domination. And for the Muslim, peace means when all the other nations are subject to Islam. Then we are at peace. The world will be at peace when the entire world is under Islam. Well, I don't agree with the teachings of Islam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: I want to get your comment from that -- about that after a break. Let's just think about that all for a second, because it is definitely the kind of language that I see on my Facebook page, definitely the belief that some Americans have about Islam. So I want to address that to both of you.
Let's take a quick break. We'll continue this conversation about faiths coming together to try and make sense of this dispute that's going on. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: So much noise in this conversation about this mosque at Ground Zero it's hard to get down to brass tacks. So I'm putting it to two gentlemen, Rabbi Jonathan Klein of the group Clergy and Laity United for Economic Justice in Los Angeles. Standing next to him on his left, Jihad Turk. He's the religious director of the Islamic Center of Southern California, also in Los Angeles.
Gentlemen, just before the break, I read you something that sounded very inflammatory from Franklin Graham, or you heard Franklin Graham's comments from when he was on John King's show the other day. It starts by saying the teaching of Islam is to hate the Jew.
Rabbi, you probably heard that. You probably heard it from Jews. You probably heard it from Christians. Tell me what you think of that.
KLEIN: I think that what's happened, if you look at the history of Jews and Islam, in fact, Jews have fared quite well in the context of Muslim society. And so what's happened is, in the last past century in particular, since the creation of the state of Israel and even a little before that, you see an increase in tensions between the communities.
But that's to really distort the record of the relationship. It is completely wrong to say that Islam is out to destroy Jews or Christians or anyone. People are trying to live with their values on -- in their lives, and live fairly and faithfully to their traditions in an American context.
We're blessed with a beautiful system that allows people to live with the freedom of religion. This is not about Islam being evil. And I can't believe that -- I mean, if we look at any religious tradition, you can find all sorts of perspectives that are contrary to the world view that Jihad and I bring to the table, one which is about love and about community-building.
VELSHI: Jihad, isn't there...
TURK: And if I could add, Ali, that...
VELSHI: Go ahead.
TURK: No, go ahead. I was just going to add that, you know, I would suggest it's not just the view that I hold here at the -- you know, West Coast of the United States, the idea that Jews and Christians and people of other faith are free to practice their own religion.
In fact, the Koran describes Christians and Jews as people of the book, i.e. people of the faith. And the Koran describes Jews as the chosen people. So Muslims respect and honor and give dignity to people of various faiths. And it's -- and it's our goal to really try and counter the extremist rhetoric that you'll hear out of parts of the Muslim world with the perspective that most -- most American Muslims and Muslims internationally hold about pluralism and tolerance of other faith traditions.
VELSHI: Well, I think we both -- we've gone some distance at countering extremist rhetoric and giving a real story by having this discussion with the two of you today. I appreciate the work that you're doing in trying to foster a better understanding of what this issue is. Rabbi Jonathan Klein, Jihad Turk.
And by the way, these two gentlemen are representative of a larger group of people who have come together to try and get this dialogue back on track.
Gentlemen, thanks very much. We will continue this dialogue.
All right. On to another discussion we've been following very closely. An oil plume the in the Gulf of Mexico 22 miles long, more than a mile wide and 650 feet deep. Where is it? What danger does it pose? We'll tell you about it after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. Oil plumes. This is one of the things that we talked about in those, boy, three months. It seemed endless, all that time that we were talking about that oil in the Gulf of Mexico. There was oil on the surface. There was oil washing ashore. It was affecting animals.
And then there were these oil plumes, oil under the surface of the ocean. Well, there were a group that was studying these oil plumes, and they've just come out with a report about an oil plume.
First of all, I want to show you the quantity of oil in general that was lost into the Gulf of Mexico. See those circles on the left? There's a blue one within which there's a gray one and then there's a little gray spot at the bottom? The gray spot at the bottom is all the oil that leaked out of the Exxon Valdez, all right? Now, the bigger circle into which that falls is all of the oil that came out of the Macondo Well. This is the BP well, this oil disaster, 4.9 millions is the estimate. Could go up.
And right around there, the blue circle is actually the biggest. It was a 1991 Persian Gulf oil spill, 5.7 million. So you can see, we're almost -- we're almost at the biggest oil spill there ever was.
Where has all this oil gone? As you know, some of it washed up on shore. Some of it dispersed. Some of it is still in the ocean as plumes. Some of it was burned. Some of it was flared. But there is still some oil in the Gulf of Mexico, possibly a lot of it.
And according to a report released by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, there was a plume, at least in June, that was 22 miles long, 1.2 miles wide, 650 feet high, and it was half a mile down into the Gulf.
I want to talk to the scientists who made this determination. Rich Camilli is a chief scientist and environmental engineer at Woods Hole. Chris Reddy is co-principal investigator and marine chemist and oil spill expert. They're joining me now.
Gents, thanks for being with us. Is this plume still there?
RICH CAMILLI, WOO: It's unlikely that it's still there, because the well was shut off several weeks ago, and we know from our survey back in June that the -- this plume was flowing at a rate of about 6.5 kilometers per day. And given that the well was shut off several weeks ago, it's likely that those hydro carbons that were there back during our survey have since moved on.
VELSHI: Moved on where? I mean, they're somewhere in the water still? Are they dispersing?
REDDY: It's unclear exactly where they are now. But it's -- we know that the plume was moving to the southwest when we did the survey.
VELSHI: What's the effect of this, Chris? What should we be thinking about? There was a lot of oil that was there. It must be somewhere. How do we sort of track the effect of this oil spill on our wildlife, on our fisheries, and what do we learn from it for next time?
CHRIS REDDY, OIL SPILL EXPERT: I think the first thing we learn from this study is that oil does -- can be submerged below the surface of the ocean. You know, that was our first goal, is, you know, conventional wisdom is that oil floats. The fact that we could pinpoint and accurately survey a plume of that size with the type of technology that we could bring to bear was the most important.
The next step is for us to get a really good handle as to the full inventory of the compounds that are in the plume. We are still working very hard in collaboration with NOAA as to how much oil is in the plume. And once you know how much oil is in there, then you can start to discuss damages.
But, again, the most important aspect of this was to identify that a plume could exist and that it was of this scale.
VELSHI: You were tracking this, you were on top of it, and then all of a sudden you couldn't, because of weather. You got -- you lost track of it. But the weather -- you guys in your report say doesn't affect the plume; it just affects your ability to track it.
REDDY: Well, we had to break off tracking, because of Hurricane Alex. It was approaching, and the Coast Guard required that all nonessential ships evacuate. So that -- at that point, we had to break off tracking, and unfortunately, we couldn't track it any further.
VELSHI: What's the sense of what you know to be under the water or what your report was able to track versus what NOAA was saying in terms of the amount of oil that spilled? Do you think that they're underestimating the amount of oil that was actually in the Gulf of Mexico?
REDDY: I think at this point -- well, what we have to keep in mind is that these estimates that are being produced are the first round of a long list of estimates that are going to come out. Science moves incrementally, and what we hope is that the information that we gave out yesterday and presented yesterday will be used in future studies.
But, you know, science moves slowly, patiently, and this story is not going to go away. So we just have to hang in there at this point, and we'll be able to answer a lot more questions. And may be able to answer more questions with time.
VELSHI: Yes, well, we've stuck around this long. We might as well stick around. Chad Myers in our severe weather center has been tracking this since the first day this all developed.
Chad, this is the third report we've seen this week that indicates that something is not copacetic with NOAA and the estimates of how much oil actually flowed into the Gulf.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, and I hope those men can stay with us for a little bit, because I do want to ask them some questions or you can, if they can't hear me.
I made a map here. This is the Gulf of Mexico, and I've made a map of a plume that would be 22 miles long and 1 mile wide. You can see it. It's like the size of a pin. It literally is very small compared to the size of the Gulf of Mexico. Twenty-two miles seems very large.
My issue is that they found one. There may be how many others out there that they didn't find, because their boat, their ship, their equipment, just was not in the right place? I think that a lot of this happens because of the how this water and how this oil was aerosolized, due to the high pressure below. But men, if you can hear me, this isn't the whole one that you think is out there, or was out there at the time, is that right?
CAMILLI: I should start by saying, our goal is for the survey was to first of all establish if there were...
MYERS: Yes.
CAMILLI: ... plumes in the water column. Based on the initial evidence that we had, we decided to track the plume that we found.
MYERS: OK.
CAMILLI: We weren't trying to establish how many plumes there were. Just whether they did exist or not. And then characterize this one that we found.
MYERS: Did you take a sample?
CAMILLI: Yes, we took many samples. And if you can imagine this in terms of -- what we describe as a hunter gatherer type technique. We used some experimental systems, some robotic systems, autonomous underwater -- autonomous underwater vehicle to basically act as a forward reconnaissance tool that allowed us to vector the ship in so that we could then take those samples. And my colleague, Dr. Reddy, can describe how those samples were taken.
REDDY: Yes. I mean, let me first respond that you're absolutely right that this plume is certainly small in the Gulf of Mexico. And it underscores a rather important point that the generalities about any aspect of the Gulf have to be kept in mind that it is a very large area. So that's the first thing.
Yes, we collected hundreds of samples. They are being analyzed in collaboration with NOAA. We did that as an effort with both NOAA and British Petroleum, and the EPA all had advisers on the boat watching us collect these samples.
And the analysis of the water samples is not like it is on TV shows where you get data in 8 seconds. It takes a very long time to go through a variety of quality control of validation processes until it's pretty tight, per se.
We certainly had enough data to -- to essentially tie in this whole story, but certainly much more data is in the pipeline. And when we have that pipeline, not only will we be able to identify, maybe get a gauge on toxicity of this plume, but also perhaps even more importantly, try to figure out what chemicals that were spewing out of this -- at 5,000 feet decided to take a right-hand turn and go into this plume, where -- versus going up to the surface.
And that's where, you know, some just solid, good environmental chemistry probably will give us a good insight into how oil behaves and in an opportunity that's never happened before. This is a natural experiment. You know, we have dealt nature a very large...
VELSHI: Dr. Reddy, I've got to stop you, because I'm about to get my Ph.D. in oil plumes. So I -- I appreciate it.
CAMILLI: Nothing wrong with that.
VELSHI: No, clearly, there isn't. In fact, if...
CAMILLI: You might need it.
VELSHI: It's all of a sudden become -- it's all of a sudden become very valuable. So I do appreciate it, and I appreciate that you guys have it. And the work that you guys have done.
And as you said, Chris, we will be patient about sticking with this, because we do want to know what the long-term effects of this are. But unfortunately, I have to actually get paid here, and that means going to a commercial break.
Rich Camilli, Camilli is a chief scientist with -- an environmental engineer with Woods Hole. And Chris Reddy is co- principal investigator and a marine chemist and oil spill expert. And if you didn't believe that before this conversation started, you better now.
And there's our guy, Chad Myers. We're on top of this thing.
Thanks very much, guys.
For more information on this oil plume study, head to my blog page at CNN.com/Ali. As always, we will connect you. We'll give you the links for anything that you need to know so you, too, can get a Ph.D. in this.
BRIC investing, you've heard about it, B-R-I-C. It could be your best investing bet when the U.S. economy has gone in the tank. Maybe it's gone there again. I'll tell you why when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Even in the sexiest of TV shows like this one, there comes a time when you have to take out a pen and paper and make a few notes. This is that time.
Look, if you've been reading the newspapers or listening to TV, you would think that this country is going to hell in a hand basket, but the entire world is not actually suffering economically. And I'm going to telling you about certain parts of the world that are actually doing quite well. And they are -- they are called the BRIC countries. You're going to see BRIC a lot. You're going to hear about BRIC a lot.
Here's what it stands for. "B" stands for Brazil. "R" stands for Russia. A couple problems there. We'll talk about that later. "I" stands for India. And "C" stands for one of the fastest-growing in the entire world, China.
Now, if you want to invest in these countries, you want to do well, there are several ways that you can do them -- do that. But one of the best ways is through something called an ETF, an exchange traded fund, which is basically a mutual fund, a basket of stocks, that make money out of these countries. But you can buy it and sell it on the stock market if you have a trading account. They're a very simple way to diversify your investment within one particular country.
My good friend, Steven Leeb is back. He's the author of "Game Over." And Steven, you are really well-concentrated in these other countries. You think it's very important for the average investor, my viewer, to have diversification and to concentrate on some of these growth areas.
STEVEN LEEB, AUTHOR, "GAME OVER": I absolutely do, Ali. I mean, and if you just look at the last ten years, they sort of tell the story. Not counting dividends, The U.S. stock market is down over the past ten years.
VELSHI: Right.
LEEB: These countries, if you look at their stock markets, you have to hold on to your hat. They're up five and six-fold. And their growth is still as strong as ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Now, the rest of that conversation is Steven leeb giving you names of things that you can buy. Ways to invest in Brazil, Russia, India and China. You want to see the rest of it, you've got to tune in this weekend. Saturday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, Sunday at 3:00 p.m. Eastern on "YOUR $$$$$."
All right. You know him as the famous director of "The Sixth Sense," "Signs," and "The Last Airbender." M. Night Shyamalan live in the studio with me to talk about his other passions, international aid and education right here in the United States.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY JOEL OSMENT, ACTOR (acting): I see dead people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: All right. You've seen M. Night Shyamalan's movies, you know his name. You know him as a film director. He's a moviemaker.
What you don't know about him is that he has an international foundation. He's very, very concerned with affairs around the world on many, many fronts. He's very involved in his own hometown of Philadelphia, and he's very, very concerned about the state of education in America, something you know we're very concerned about right here on this show, because we deal with it every single day on our show.
So, M. Night Shyamalan joins me now to talk about this. Welcome.
M. NIGHT SHYAMALAN, FILM DIRECTOR: Hey, thanks for having me.
VELSHI: Congratulations.
SHYAMALAN: Thank you.
VELSHI: You're just off the launch of your last movie, "The Last Airbender."
SHYAMALAN: Right.
VELSHI: And you've been traveling around the world, but you're back here now. I want to talk about this. I don't know there are a lot of people who really know the sort of work you're involved in when you're not making movies, you and your wife.
SHYAMALAN: Right.
VELSHI: Tell us about the work you do on an international level.
SHYAMALAN: Well, we have a foundation that my wife runs. And we have been doing it for quite some time now. We have an international arm. And generally what we have kind of focused on -- it's become this theory, is trying to find leaders that have kind of been born through fire that we then -- we get inspired by and then we try to support them.
And one of our first big efforts we did was in Nagpore, India with a woman we read about in "The New York Times." Osha, who stood up to all these slum lords in her little town there, and protected all of the women in the town. And ran them out of -- it was a very dramatic story, how she protected them all.
And we -- my wife flew out there and met her and we said, "What do you need?". and she wanted to train all the women and get them, you know, skills training. And so we have been doing that over there for a few years.
VELSHI: About 250 women involved -- that's your goal, to help -- to train 250 women.
SHYAMALAN: Right.
VELSHI: And what -- training them in what way?
SHYAMALAN: It's different skills. We do analysis of what they could learn that would be profitable for them in the area. And, you know, whether it's textiles or, you know, computers or whatever it is that they feel that they could make more money with.
Because in that area, traditionally, it's the men that make the money, and then in that area, they have trouble keeping the money. There's a lot of issues in that dynamic. And empowering the women was a big, big thing for Osha. And we said, "Whatever you want to do, we're going to do."
VELSHI: And when we look at developing countries and we look at empowering women or educating women, a lot of NGOs say that's where the focus can be. Money invested in and time invested in women tends to return to the whole community. One of the things that's -- that always comes to play is the idea of micro loans, providing women with small amounts of money appropriate to their needs to start a business or to do something. You have some involvement in that, as well.
SHYAMALAN: That's right. We find that's the best way to reach the broadest amount of people, is give microloans to people that we believe in, and Osha's group is part of this, as well.
VELSHI: You -- you mentioned analysis. You kind of like to do that.
SHYAMALAN: yes.
VELSHI: Every time -- when you and I have talked, we have talked for hours about the way you have read and analyzed problems and how to go about, you know, solving them. How does that influence how you distribute money from this foundation? SHYAMALAN: Well, you know, as you -- as you start in a foundation, you make a lot of mistakes in the beginning. You think you hear a great thing that somebody is doing or a project and you give all this money to them. And by the time the money actually gets to where you want, it's trickled down, and whether it's effective and how many layers and all of that analysis hasn't gone on yet, so you immediately come to the thing of how can you help the most amount of people? You analyze the system.
And for me, finding the leaders that have been borne through fire in their own circumstances and have made a difference already and saying, okay, you've proven yourself as a leader. What -- we're here. You have inspired us, what can we do to help you. And going around the world ask finding those people and helping them in any way they need has been the most effective way for our time and money to make a difference.
VELSHI: And you've spread that money out amongst a lot of things. Whenever you and I talk, we don't actually ever talk about films, actually. We're always talking about these things you're concerned about. And one of your great passions and one of our great passions is improving education, improving public education here in the United States.
I want to take a break, and I want to talk about some of the analysis and ideas you have for that.
SHYAMALAN: I would love to.
VELSHI: So, stay with us right now. More with M. Night Shyamalan after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: M. Night Shyamalan, the world-famous director is right here with. He has made so many movies, you would expect if you hadn't seen him that he'd be about 86 years old, but he's not, because he started very, very young.
And I wonder sometimes when I listen to you talk about your passions in life, one of which we are about to talk about, education -- whether these making films is sort of a sideline for you. It clearly isn't, because these are big, big films you always make. But your passions lie in part in education. Why? Why do you care?
SHYAMALAN: You know, I wanted to do something for Philadelphia. And I said, how can we make it --
VELSHI: Which is where you grew up.
SHYAMALAN: Yes, I live in Philly and make all my movies there.
VELSHI: A lot of your movies are set there.
SHYAMALAN: Exactly. I don't know if you know many Philly people, we're intensely loyal people, always come back. VELSHI: All you need to know is look at the sports teams, and that will tell you that.
SHYAMALAN: Yes. I sense some sarcasm average there, but we'll jump right over that.
(LAUGHTER)
SHYAMALAN: But I wanted to do something specific and real. What could we accomplish? and one of the things that I was thinking about is that it -- education, you know, public school education in Philly isn't the greatest. And I -- I analyzed it. How many people are we talking about here? it's 250,00; 280,000 kids. It's 200 some schools, public and charter schools combined. And this felt like a real high-impact thing that we could do.
And it just felt like that at this day and age that we couldn't give the highest education in Philadelphia - the irony is that Philadelphia has almost of the most higher education places and the amazing schools in the world. So, we have this irony of having this program that isn't working for the kids, but we have Penn University and everything you can imagine. All the greatest institutions just right down the street. And that's not acceptable.
VELSHI: So I know this is a continuum with you. Where are you? I think there is going to be a document, there's going to be some of a coda that comes out of this thing, and I'm waiting to read it. But where are you thinking about what can be fixed in public education, where the problems lie?
SHYAMALAN: Well, I'll go back a little bit. The thing you're referring to is in the process of being written by me in between movies. That's where I'm -- we have been working on it for about three years. The -- when we started, I said, already, let's go find the system of education in the country that's really working --
VELSHI: Right.
SHYAMALAN: -- and I can learn a lot from that. So, we sent all our amazing researchers out and they went and looked, and there is no system in the United States that's working (ph). And what's incredible is that everything is working about the same.
And so immediately, as we have talked before, it struck me, like, wow, everything is working like a system. It's maintaining itself at a very standard level here. And what -- why is it so common, this standard, around the country? And so I had that in my mind, like, it's working like a system.
And then we went to dinner with our friends, these kind of brilliant doctor friends of ours, and one of them teaches at Penn, the residents. And he just has nothing to do with education. He was telling us that one of the things he teaches his residents is if you tell your patients to do these five or six things: sleep eight hours a day; eat a nutritious, balanced diet; work out, you know, two or three times a week; don't smoke, these kind of things. And then he goes, your chances of getting all illnesses drops by an enormous amount, like 60, 70, 80 percent like that. People just don't get ill. Your body becomes healthy.
VELSHI: So, you're trying to find those set of rules that will make you smarter.
SHYAMALAN: Exactly. Right. At the dinner table, I was like, wow.
And this is the interesting thing he said. If you do one of those things and you do the -- you leave one out, like if you smoke but you did everything else, your chances of getting ill go pretty much back to the common population, the general average.
So, then that suddenly struck me as a kind of principle. Is there a -- is there a set of things in education that if you did them together, proven things, like Mom says, sleep eight hours a day, those kind of things. If you did them together, that the system would become healthy.
So, we set out to go look at all the research -- not to invent anything -- just to look at all the research around the world and in the United States to see if the say data shows you, are there these -- I don't know, commandments, these tenets, like sleep eight hours a day and, you know, work out regularly, things that are common sense that have been proven through data. But if you did them all together, the system becomes healthy.
And actually, I can say after three years of talking to all the top people and everything, there are these -- we found that there are seven things.
VELSHI: Are you going to tell us?
SHYAMALAN: No, I'm going tell you later. Like --
VELSHI: Too late for me.
SHYAMALAN: I like to keep people -- suspenseful --
VELSHI: All right. Well, you come back. We'll talk about the things you have learned, because I know you're studying, and I'm dying to read what you're coming out with. But I know the movies get in the way sometimes.
SHYAMALAN: One of the things that was really striking to me, one of the things we thought intuitively would have been one of these seven aren't. Like for example, classroom size.
VELSHI: Right. We've discussed this. You don't think -
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Fewer students in a classroom, they get a better education. But the research doesn't necessarily. SHYAMALAN: Seems so intuitive. And again, ithe great thing about what we're doing is -- it is, in my opinion, if it said wear blue makes you a better teacher, everyone should wear blue. That's what the data says.
But -- so that was one of those kind of -- you know, mythbuster kind of things that will be in this -- in this document when it's done. Is just what is the data?
VELSHI: Is there going to be another movie that interrupts that? Is there a sequel to "The Last Airbender"?
SHYAMALAN: There will be some movie, I'm sure, but at lunchtime, I'll be on the set looking at the research.
VELSHI: Because not to be a spoiler or anything, but that end of the movie does suggest something else will be coming.
SHYAMALAN: Yes, you know, it will be fun to see where that story goes, for sure.
VELSHI: All right. Good to see you, as always.
SHYAMALAN: Take care, man.
VELSHI: Pleasure to have you here.
SHYAMALAN: Thanks for having me here.
VELSHI: We will continue the discussion about education, when that document is out, and when you want to tell us about the seven things, we'll talk about it.
M. Night Shyamalan, world-famous director. To check out the M. Night Shyamalan Foundation, the part of him you don't know about, that you're just learning about now, go to my blog, CNN.com/ali. We will link you to it.
All right. Fewer U.S. troops in Iraq as America switches to an advise-and-assist role. What does that mean? What does this major change mean to the Iraqis? We're going to find out. We're going "Globe Trekking" when I get back.
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VELSHI: Time to go "Globe Trekking." First to Iraq, where the last U.S. combat brigade, the Fourth Stryker Second Infantry Division crossed out of Iraq and into Kuwait yesterday, 13 days ahead of a White House deadline for ending the U.S. combat mission in Iraq. As of today, 52,000 U.S. troops remain in Iraq, according to the military. By September 1st, Operation New Dawn is set to begin with a cap of 50,000 U.S. troops, advising and assisting Iraqi troops.
How will this reduction in U.S. troops affect Iraqis? How are they viewing this change? Joining me to talking about this is Ali Fadhil. He's doctor-turned-journalist who's covered the war in Iraq for several years. He's in Houston right now.
Ali, what's -- I've been asking our reporters in Iraq what's difference to do than two days ago. What's going to be different on September 1st than on August 31st. From the Iraqi perspective, let's discuss that same question. What do you think has changed in Iraq? What's about to happen?
ALI FADHIL, IRAQI JOURNALIST: Ali, thank you very much for having me. Right now, for the Iraqis, it's very difficult for them to see the difference, the change in the street because they haven't seen Americans for a very long while now. They're not in the streets, and there haven't been any major combats in Iraq. So, they didn't see them. They haven't seen them for a while.
So, it doesn't make a difference for now. They are kind of talking about the issue, like they see it on the media. But when I talked to people and I talk to my friends back there, and even when I was there two months ago, they just express like wondering, what does that mean? Does that really mean the Americans are going to leave?
Some of them are skeptical. Some of them are not just believing the idea that the Americans are leaving Iraq, and that's it.
VELSHI: Are they -- would you say that it's a shared view amongst Iraqis that it's time for the Americans to leave? Is everybody supportive of the fact that they're leaving? Are there some people who think they should still be there? And are there some who think there shouldn't even be 50,000, get rid of all of them?
FADHIL: It's kind of mixed. You can't say all of them want the Americans to leave. Many of them want the Americans to stay. They just fear that the things that happened back in 2003, 2004 and '05, that might come again. They still know that we have neighbors who are not happy with the new system we have.
There are others also on the other side, there have been people who have been in combat with the U.S. forces in Iraq for years, and they want the Americans to leave as soon as possible.
To be honest with you, myself, I see -- my personal opinion is it's better for the Americans to leave as soon as possible so that we have our own resolution, an Iraqi resolution for the problem that we're in right now. Because we have to remember the whole problem is because of the war, the whole situation that we're having right now is because of the war and because of the presence of the U.S. forces and the other forces in Iraq.
VELSHI: OK. That is an important topic to take a break on. I'm going to talk to you more about this. You said you want an Iraqi resolution. Certainly, from an American perspective, we're wondering what that is. We're wondering the same thing about Afghanistan: how does the U.S. leave and have the countries with their own issues?
We'll continue this conversation with Ali Fadhil. He's an independent Iraqi journalist joining me from Houston when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Hey, we're having a conversation. We've heard that the combat mission is sort of, kind of coming to an end in Iraq. There are some 50,000 troops left behind. They're going to be in an advise- and-assist role.
I'm talking to an independent Iraqi journalist. He was a doctor who then became a journalist. His name is Ali Fadhil. He's joining me from Houston, Texas. When we last talked, Ali, you said this. We need an Iraqi resolution to the problems in Iraq. What is next for Iraq? What does that resolution look like?
FADHIL: I wish I know the resolution. Nobody knows the resolution, to be honest with you, Ali. It's something the Iraqis have to find on their own. It's just -- it's difficult for them to find it while the American forces are there playing the monopoly game, if you want. It's difficult. There are all these politicians right now -- I'm sure you're familiar with it -- we still don't have governments after five, six -- actually -- months after the election.
It's just devastating for the people there. Devastating for the situation. The government is not running -- the government infrastructure is not running in the best way possible.
I can give you an example of this stalemate, if you like. Five days ago, we have something called the Integrity Commission (ph). It was an American invention in Iraq. Iraq had never heard of before. It was made in 2004 by Paul Bremmer, and that commission was supposed to fight corruption.
Five days ago, a commission from the Integrity Commission went to Najef - to meet the governor of Najef and just to check to -- they wanted to check the papers and everything. The governor just came out in the hall and kicked them out. He told them, "If you don't leave right now, I'm going to arrest you." And they just went back to Baghdad without doing any investigation in Najef.
And that's how the situation right now, the political situation -- it's not functioning. And why it's not functioning because it's an American invention. It's not an Iraqi invention. The government, the old system, the election. Name it. It's all made in an American way that's not functioning, that is not working with how Iraq should be governed or how Iraqis want their country to be governed.
VELSHI: All right. We appreciate your perspective on that because we don't often get that. Useful to know. You're saying once the Americans are out, at least the Iraqis will be able to see what's left and what their infrastructure is and what they can do to create a more effective governance, system of governance.
Ali Fadhil, good to talk to you. Thanks very much for being with us. Ali Fadhil is an independent Iraqi journalist joining us from Houston, Texas.
A salmonella outbreak linked to tainted eggs. We're now hearing that it likely will grow. The latest on that straight ahead.
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