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New York City Taxi Driver Attacked; Keeping Eggs Safe to Eat; Waveland, Mississippi, on the Comeback
Aired August 26, 2010 - 14:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: All right. I'm Ali Velshi.
A Brand-new hour. We've got a brand-new "Rundown."
We begin this hour with a despicable crime and an unlikely suspect in the shadows of the New York mosque debate. A Bangladeshi- born New York City taxi driver is recovering today from knife wounds to his neck, face and hands, and a 21-year-old New York film student is charged with attempted murder, assault and aggravated harassment, all with the designation hate crime.
The attack happened Tuesday evening as Ahmed Sharif was starting his shift. Michael Enright was his first fare.
According to Sharif, Enright was friendly enough, asking where Sharif was from, whether he's a Muslim, whether he was fasting during Ramadan. Then a few moments later, allegedly, the young man reached up from the backseat with a knife and started slashing.
Sharif was able to hail a cop who arrested Enright and got Sharif to a hospital. And that brings us to an event last hour at New York City Hall.
Ahmed Sharif and his colleagues and supporters appealed for an end to anti-Muslim bigotry and worse amid the turmoil over plans to build the Park 51 Islamic Center two blocks from Ground Zero.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is following all of this.
Deb, this just gets more and more complicated, who this guy is, the background of this alleged assailant, and this event that occurred in the last hour.
Tell us what we know.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Ali, it's so interesting, because by all accounts, this was a guy who was volunteering at an organization that promotes peace between Muslims and non-Muslims, but he was working in a section that basically deals with veterans, soldiers coming back from war, having them express and talk about their experiences and share them with other people.
He spent five weeks in Afghanistan, basically talking to soldiers on the front line. And this trip was actually paid in part by this nonprofit organization promoting peace. What he saw there, what changed him, very unclear at this point. But the Muslim cab driver says that he is sure that the attack was because he is a Muslim.
The 21-year-old film student, Michael Enright, asked him where he was from, whether he was a Muslim, whether he was observing Ramadan. He seemed to be joking about it, but then his mood got very, very somber, according to reports, and moments later the attack began.
We are told that he was very drunk, or it appeared he had been drinking. So whether that's part of it -- but again, there are so many things going on. And we're hearing every day about the controversy surrounding this Islamic center mosque a couple of blocks from Ground Zero, that it really -- there's a rhetoric, there's something hanging over the city, as there is really almost across the country, arguably.
VELSHI: Well, we had heard initially that the mayor was going to be at this press conference. It turns out he wasn't there.
FEYERICK: He wasn't there, but he has been a very big supporter of the mosque at Ground Zero. He said moving it will not solve the debate, moving it will not fix anything. People will still fight against mosques.
The question is, how close is too close? How far is not far enough? And those are the issue that have to be dealt with, that American-Muslims are American citizens and they have the exact same rights, and that's the larger issue when it comes to where you pray -- Ali.
VELSHI: Deb, let's listen in to some of what Ahmed Sharif said at this press conference. Let's roll that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AHMED SHARIF, CAB DRIVER: (INAUDIBLE). So, as I came from the back, it was a shock. It still has me scared. Still, I have a view of the knife when I close my eye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can take a break. It's OK.
SHARIF: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want a break? Take a break.
He's just going to take another break.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Here's something interesting about this. Michael Enright, the suspect, worked for an organization, as you said, called Intersections International. They've issued this statement, Deb: "We are saddened that the person charged with this crime, Michael Enright, has been a volunteer with Intersections for the past year. His work with us was generous and responsible. He shared our vision for a diverse and peaceful world. This unfathomable incident is profoundly sad on many levels."
It's puzzling, Deborah, that a guy who was involved in this sort of organization would be -- and we don't know what his motivations are -- but would be motivated by the idea that this guy is a Muslim. I mean, it's not like this is the average guy. This is a guy who actually immersed himself in an organization that promotes peace between different -- peace and understanding.
FEYERICK: Clearly. And he was eager to go to Afghanistan, to experience what soldiers had experienced.
The executive director of that peace organization says, you know, clearly, even though it was five weeks, whatever he saw there was a transformative experience. You don't know the mindset, you don't know how he was emotionally before he left. You don't know what happened emotionally after he returned. So all of those are factors.
Had this happened perhaps in the absence of a controversy about a mosque, then it would be a very different story. It would be some young guy who had gone off to experience war comes back. It would have been seen as almost just sort of a crime of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
But in the light, in the context of what's going on now with the building of mosques and the anti-Islamic sentiment, it takes on a very different cast.
VELSHI: Deborah Feyerick, you've been on this story and the mosque story for some time. You'll let us know if there are any developments.
Deb Feyerick, in New York.
Coming up next, that massive egg recall over a salmonella outbreak. Just who is responsible for overseeing the safety of our eggs? We're going to tackle that question right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. We're talking about eggs, we're talking about food, we're talking about food safety. We had the egg recall, then we had a meat recall, which initially I thought was like a steak and egg recall, ,but it was deli meats.
Who's supposed to be in charge of this? We had this great conversation with Dan Simon about how they've just implemented these new rules for greens, leafy greens.
What about eggs?
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, you would think there would be a simple answer, right? If you go to Eatocracy -- by the way, great blog through CNN.com -- I've been taking a look at how this breaks down. Let me jump over to it, because I want to show you something that's interesting about the way our government works right now. VELSHI: Yes.
LEVS: All right. So under the rules as they're written, the USDA regulates raw meat, poultry and certain egg products. And then the FDA regulates everything else, including egg products.
VELSHI: OK.
LEVS: So what I did was I got on the phone with someone from the USDA, and I was trying to understand which is which, because this is part of the problem. No one understands who is in charge.
The way it works -- he was telling me this is the basic idea -- the FDA is in charge of shelled eggs. The USDA is suddenly in charge of inspecting if they're brought to a plant, to be broken and --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I see.
LEVS: But what has happened over the years is there have been so many agencies doing so many different same things, and not enough resources in general.
So, earlier today I spoke with an expert. I said, what do we need to do to actually protect our egg supply? Here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINE SMITH DEWAAL, CENTER FOR SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST: We think that high-risk facilities, including these egg plants, should be visited every six to 12 months. That's critically important if we're going to see improvements in egg safety, in spinach safety, in peanut butter, and lots of these food products that have caused outbreaks in recent years.
LEVS: OK. And you think that if that's in place, and that would actually do what it takes to protect the nation's egg supply, we wouldn't see this ever again, in your view?
DEWAAL: We might see it occasionally, but it wouldn't get so big. And it's critically important that Congress act quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: Which tells me that a lot of those places are not expected every six to 12 --
LEVS: They're not.
VELSHI: That's fascinating.
LEVS: The two major ones involved here right now hadn't been inspected --
VELSHI: I don't understand that. LEVS: -- even though there had been other kinds of problems that were reported. And her argument is hey, if they were having these other problems, why didn't they get the sense there could also be food inspection problems and you should send inspections there?
They don't have enough inspectors right now. They're not adequately equipped. So even with the laws that are being pushed through -- and we know there's going to be congressional action more now, right -- the fact is you can't just be on the books. It has to translate into action with money spent, with people being sent out there.
VELSHI: Right. And as you and I know, people don't want to spend money on things they don't think are a concern.
LEVS: That's right.
VELSHI: So, most of the time the food supply is safe. Upping the number of inspectors so that we can inspect farms and food facilities regularly is not that all appealing.
LEVS: And as we know, unfortunately, with oil and some other cases, sometimes having inspections isn't enough either. You've got to make sure that the inspectors are doing their job, that the inspectors are being inspected sometimes, they're all being checked out.
But listen, since we're having all this talk about food safety, I also wanted to lighten things up a little bit, because it kind of gets gross sometimes -- salmonella -- so I have just got to show you this before I go.
VELSHI: Right.
LEVS: Look at this. It's called "Lick the Screen" from Eatocracy. This is a beautiful food shot. I'm just going to zoom you through.
It really is "Lick the Screen." I mean, look at this. They've taken --
VELSHI: Just to be clear, we're not really encouraging anybody to lick the screen.
LEVS: Well, we wouldn't know. They're home. They do what they're going to do.
VELSHI: Just wash your screen if you're going to -- I hear you.
LEVS: It's pretty amazing, right?
VELSHI: It's HD. This probably looks good in 3D. Can you imagine?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Why do people talk about food on the show? I get hungry every time we do that.
All right. Good to see you, my friend. Thank you for that.
LEVS: You got it.
VELSHI: And Josh always looks into these great things for us.
Five years ago, Hurricane Katrina nearly wiped this community you're looking at -- no, you're actually looking at our newsroom -- wiped a small town in Mississippi off the map. That town is rebounding from the rubble. How they're "Building up America" coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Waveland, Mississippi, was flattened by Hurricane Katrina five years ago. But the small Gulf Coast town which is between Biloxi and New Orleans refuses to die out.
CNN's Tom Foreman joins us live with more on this determined community -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Ali. How you doing?
You know, for all that we've reported on the extraordinary efforts here in New Orleans to help people out like the Habitat for Humanity musicians village, where I am right now, the need has been here, that's for sure. But the epicenter of this storm, the place where it hit was the most viciousness and violence, was over on the Gulf Coast. And the folks in that very community you mentioned really are finding a way to build up nonetheless.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): Of all the towns ripped by Katrina, none suffered more than Waveland. And no one knows it better than Mayor Tommy Longo.
MAYOR TOMMY LONGO, WAVELAND MISSISSIPPI: Lost our residential structures, lost our commercial structures, lost our governmental structures. And every city building was gone. Our town was obliterated. We were wiped off the face of the earth.
FOREMAN: And yet, ever since Waveland has been steadily building up. A $100 million in federal disaster aid has rebuilt community centers, libraries, roads, schools, parks. Churches have reopened, 65 percent of the businesses have returned. Not as much as the city wants but good enough to bring two-thirds of the people back too.
CNN's Anderson Cooper first met the Kearney family right after the storm.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "AC360" (on camera): You vacuumed your house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I vacuumed my house to the moon. FOREMAN: They lost the homes for three generations of Kearneys. It was overwhelming.
GERMAIN KEARNEY, WAVELAND, MISSISSIPPI: This has blown me away, it really is. Yes but I mean, this happens to other people and they come back from it. So -- we're going to come back from it, too.
FOREMAN: And they did. Rebuilding and resettling, not far from the empty lot where they used to live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was our tree house here which actually made it through the storm.
FOREMAN: Reclaiming their town has not been easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not complaining but it is harder to do what we have to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes on the --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The school is not around the block. The school is ten miles away.
ANN KEARNEY, WAVELAND, MISSISSIPPI: There is no shopping as women know shopping. There's nothing like that. But that is so immaterial. We're coming back as a community.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, I found something.
FOREMAN: And sometimes the children still dig reminders out of the weeding. But day by day, the past grows dimmer; the future, brighter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Slow, very slow but it's happening.
FOREMAN: And for so many here that is enough to keep battling on, building up.
LONGO: It never crossed my mind that we're finished. You know, that it's done.
FOREMAN: And indeed, they are not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: The mayor is a big believer in the idea that you have to have a real core downtown for a town to really work. And their downtown was taken off the planet, Ali. I mean, there's nothing left.
So, one of the big milestones coming up is when they'll finally be able to finish construction they've just begun on their new City Hall, which is on Main Street downtown. And let the other buildings spread out from it. And they're hoping to have a festival this fall that they haven't had since before the storm, and another way to unite their community. Ali, I've got to tell you, out of all the stories I've seen since Katrina of people pulling back together, for a whole community, what they've done in Waveland, where they were hit harder than anybody, is just astonishing, Ali. You really ought to get down to see them. They're good folks.
VELSHI: I love going down there. It still saddens me because I was there right after it happened, and those images are seared in my head. So to see the rebuilding is so great.
Tom, you tell these stories so well of the people who are coming back. It puts a smile on my face because it's not just grim, bad news from you all the time.
Tom Foreman in New Orleans, where he'll be for a little while. He's been down in the Gulf region for a long time.
Tom, good to see you "Building Up America."
CNN's Anderson Cooper is heading back to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast to see how the region has bounced back five years after Hurricane Katrina. Check out "In Katrina's Wake," a "Building Up America" and "AC 360" special, tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" and the CNN NEWSROOM together around the world.
Good afternoon, Richard.
RICHARD QUEST, HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Good afternoon. Good evening, Ali.
Every Thursday you and I talking economy, travel and innovation.
VELSHI: And nothing is off limits.
Today we are talking about that beloved PTO time. Call it holiday, call it vacation. Whatever you call it, we feel entitled.
Richard, 60 seconds to tell our audience about how vacation time stacks up around the world.
QUEST: And here we go. It's really very simple when you think of vacation.
In Europe, most people have good, long, luxurious vacation times of four or five weeks. Sometimes, in the case of Finland, France, Lithuania and the U.K., it might go as much as 40 days a year.
But in the United States, Ali, you are so poor, you don't get any statutory leave. Oh, yes, add in two weeks if you've been there 10 years and a few public holidays and you get 25 days. The truth is there are three Rs to remember: rest, relaxation and recharge. Is it reasonable that people are expected to work for 52 weeks of the year and maybe just have a little bit of a break? No, clearly not. At this time of the year, surely it's the three Rs of enjoying a vacation wherever you are.
(BUZZER)
VELSHI: Ooh, 60 seconds right on the nose. I don't understand how you got those moving trees.
Let me take a go at it.
Americans, Richard, work more hours per year and take fewer vacations than workers in most industrialized nations do. On average, Americans get only, as you said, 14 days of paid vacation time per year. Most of the rest of the world calls it holiday.
Those leisurely Italians, 42 days off. The French, 37. Even the workaholic Japanese get 25 days off.
The U.S. is one of only four countries in the world, Richard, without legal protection for any paid time off. But despite this miserly system, get this -- just about half of all working Americans even use these 14 days a year. Thirty percent don't even use half of them.
And all of this is excellent for the U.S. economy, Richard, because American worker productivity is higher than that of any of your beloved European countries. U.S. workers, indeed, are the most productive in the industrialized world.
Now, let's talk about quality of life for the five seconds I have left. The U.S. tops everyone in the world all the time in terms of quality of life.
(BUZZER)
VELSHI: So, I don't know. We just like working hard and we're good at it -- Richard.
QUEST: You went over.
Yes, but let's talk about quality of life in a wider sense, Ali.
It's time for us to go head-to-head on this one. I'm getting my bell ready.
VELSHI: Let's introduce The Voice.
Hello, Voice.
THE VOICE: Hello, gentlemen. And I'm afraid there's no holiday for you, because I'm about to put you to work.
First question, you've both only answered one question right in the past two weeks, so let's start with a really obvious one. My 6- year-old niece could answer this and she doesn't even have a job.
Of the top 30 richest countries in the world, which of the following is the only one with no legally required paid vacation: A, England -- Ali, ringing in early.
VELSHI: Sadly, the United States.
THE VOICE: Sadly, that is true, Ali. You're on the board.
It is the land of laws, but there is no paid vacation law.
Question two, according to the OECD, which, as you know, stands for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, what country's employees work the longest hours per year: A, Japan; B, China; C, South Korea; or D, India?
Richard?
QUEST: I'm going for South Korea.
THE VOICE: Richard, you're exactly right and you've tied it at 1-1.
VELSHI: All right.
THE VOICE: The average South Korean, as a matter of fact, works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD. This is over 400 hours longer than the next longest-working country, which is Poland.
A typical workweek in South Korea is 44 hours or longer. Most people start their day at 8:00 a.m. and actually end at around 10:00 p.m. or later, often having dinner before returning to work.
VELSHI: Wow.
THE VOICE: It's tied at 1-1. This is for all the marbles.
Question three, according to a study done by the human resources consulting firm Mercer just this year, what two countries are tied for the most PTO time for employees with 10 years of service?
Richard?
VELSHI: How do you know that? He didn't even ask the question.
QUEST: It's going to be -- go on -- well --
THE VOICE: Would you like me to finish the question, Richard?
QUEST: No, no, no. I know the answer. It's Finland and France.
(BUZZER)
THE VOICE: Richard, you're wrong.
VELSHI: Of course it's not. THE VOICE: Ali, should I finish the question for you?
VELSHI: No.
THE VOICE: No? Go ahead.
VELSHI: U.K. and Malta.
(BUZZER)
THE VOICE: That is wrong as wrong as well.
QUEST: No. It's Brazil and Lithuania.
THE VOICE: OK, Richard, you're finally right.
VELSHI: That was a lucky guess.
THE VOICE: You're finally right. It is Brazil and Lithuania, keeping in mind, we are talking about countries with a mandatory minimum according to law and national holidays.
And a warning from The Voice, next time please let me finish the question.
VELSHI: Thank you, Voice. Always a pleasure.
Brazil and Lithuania, Richard. If ever anybody asks you if you want to be re-posted anywhere, it sounds like those two are good options.
QUEST: It's a trick in the end of the question, because it's statutory holidays plus public holidays. And that's how Brazil and Lithuania -- Ali --
VELSHI: I wouldn't know that because I didn't hear the end of the question thanks to you.
QUEST: Hey, you're the one who has had more holiday than me this year.
That will do it from this week.
Remember, we're here each Thursday. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is 18:00.
VELSHI: And in the CNN NEWSROOM, 2:00 p.m. Eastern.
QUEST: Log on, CNN.com/QMB, CNN.com/Ali.
See you next week, Ali.
VELSHI: All right, Richard. You have a good evening on your side.
A former president is now on a rescue mission in hostile territory, but there's a key international political motive for Jimmy Carter's trip, and it involves nuclear weapons.
Details when we go "Globe Trekking" on the other side of this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Time now for "Globe Trekking." We're going to North Korea, a country of intrigue we're always keeping our eye on. Former president Jimmy Carter is there trying to win the freedom of an American. Now, he's a resident of the Boston and he was sentenced to eight years for illegally crossing into North Korea from china. Carter's trip comes as North Korean leader Kim Jong-Il is believed to be in China with his third son, who's also his heir apparent. Carter is also apparently focused on the North Korean leader and efforts to get him to abandoned the North's nuclear program.
Last hour, I spoke with the man who helped arrange Jimmy Carter's trip. Dr. Han Park (ph) is a professor of international affairs at the University of Georgia. He made numerous trips to North Korea, meeting with top government officials while he's been there. He's also been involved in efforts to resolve the nuclear crisis with the North. Here's part of what he told us about President Jimmy Carter's visit and its underlying focus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAN S. PARK, PROFESSOR OF INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA: I think it's bigger than that. It's about peacemaking. Jimmy Carter is a man of peace, proven man. And the friction or hostility between U.S. and North Korea since the sinking of the South Korea vessel has escalated to a point where no one can predict what's going to happen. And Korea is most militarily fortified spot in the world, arguably.
So, Jimmy Carter evidently wanted to do something about it. And I helped arrange the trip (INAUDIBLE). But now Kim Jong-Il, evidently, we don't have an independently confirmed --
VELSHI: Apparently he slipped over into - that's what they're saying - he slipped into China. What would he do doing there?
PARK: If he went to Beijing, it's going to be hard for him to come back, to have a substantive meeting with - Kim Jong-il with Jimmy Carter. If Jimmy Carter had a chance to meet with him before their departure, there was a small window of opportunity. But most likely he went to Ji-Lin across the border.
VELSHI: Right. And that's in China?
PARK: Exactly, in China. But his father and his son's grandfather, King Il-Sun (ph) the founder of the country, headquartered his independent movement, his Revolutionary campaign and all that. So, it's so important to instill to the young people - young person -- that he's coming from that family. So, especially in view of the fact that they have a party convention is coming, leadership convention. So, given that, I think it's important for the father and son to go to the grandfather and make sure that you come from that family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: And, of course, we'll continue to follow the story of North Korea and help you to understand exactly what's going on over there.
All right. Let's take a look at the White House. We were just talking about vacation. My friend Richard Quest and I. There's somebody else back from vacation. "The Stakeout" is officially back from hiatus, right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. We have missed him. We have missed him with all our heart, but Ed Henry and "The Stakeout" are back in action. And Ed, I don't know if you heard my conversation with Richard Quest, but -
ED HENRY, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Oh, every word of it.
VELSHI: You heard, right? So, you know what some people call holiday, we call vacation, which apparently, you have had a big chunk of very recently.
HENRY: Oh, you know, you're a fine one to talk about vacation. I actually thought this show was anchored by T.J. It's nice to see you filling in --
VELSHI: Nice. I'm actually doing a master's thesis on vacation. So, it's research.
(LAUGHTER)
HENRY: Yes, I've done a little bit of that, too. You're right. But you didn't miss me that much. You had Richard coming in. So, you know --
VELSHI: We are happy to have you back. What happened to your White House?
HENRY: Oh, I'm getting ready. Going to anchor "STATE OF THE UNION" this weekend because Candy's away. So, I've been running around, trying to get ready for the show.
We're going to have a big guest in Shaun Donovan, who has not done a Sunday morning show interview yet. He's the housing secretary for the administration. He's going to talk largely about Hurricane Katrina. We're going to have the big anniversary on Sunday. President Obama going down to New Orleans, fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina.
And housing reconstruction, such a big part of it. But as you know better than anyone, there have also been some big housing numbers this week, reminding us -- awful numbers in terms of new home sales, existing home sales, that remind us that the economy is still issue number one for voters in November. Number one and number two, this is a problem that the administration from day one has had to deal with. And they're still facing it today.
VELSHI: It's a weird thing. Because while jobs are really the bigger problem in the economy, this is the first recession we've had that was triggered by a housing problem, the foreclosure mess that we're in. House prices have gone down, and people are worried. Interest rates are so low right now, Ed, and we can't stimulate to people to buy houses. As soon as the first-time tax credit, homebuyers tax credit expired, we saw those numbers go down.
It's going to be a good topic. Do you have any other big guests on the show this weekend?
HENRY: Yes, in fact, actually, we do, Ali. I think you know him pretty well. He's an anchor, every day, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
VELSHI: T.J. is on your show?!
HENRY: Yes. His show doesn't have a name yet, but we're going to create a new segment. Candy sort of gave me the keys just for a week. And I hope she doesn't mind. We're going to call it "The Ali Velshi Segment" on "STATE OF THE UNION." And we'll have you on.
VELSHI: What picture is that that we've got on the wall?
HENRY: Where? Boy, that's an old picture of me.
VELSHI: I was going to say, were you 12?
HENRY: Where's the picture of you. I thought they had a big graphic, a reveal of you. You're going to be a big guest on "STATE OF THE UNION."
VELSHI: I'm going to be with you.
HENRY: And we'll talk to you about the economy and whether or not there's going to be a double -- there you are, finally! Also an old picture of you, by the way.
VELSHI: Wow, look at us! Two young, skinny guys.
HENRY: I would like you to wear a tie, by the way, on Sunday.
VELSHI: I will definitely do that. I will wear that tie.
Hey, listen. While you were away, I don't know if you got a sense of it, but the economy, a lot of people seem to think this was going to be the biggest issue in the midterm elections. And this was supposed to be some kind of recovery summer. It was going to be sort of the last, best hope for Democrats who were expecting to lose some seats going into the midterm elections. It's not turning out to be a recovery. HENRY: You're absolutely right. I mean, just a few weeks ago, Treasury Secretary Geithner had an op-ed in "The New York Times," and the headline was "Welcome to the Recovery." I mean, the Treasury Department, the administration immediately said, we didn't write the headline. That was "The New York Times"
But if you read the substance of the actual op-ed, Secretary Geithner was certainly suggesting that this was going to be, as the administration has painted it, "recovery summer." People were going to start feeling it. The public polling, our polling suggesting clearly Americans are not feeling it. They're feeling like this recession is still dragging on.
And these fears of a double-dip recession, which I can tell you, senior officials in private just a few months ago were insisting to us that a double-dip recession was really a remote possibility. Some officials were saying, you know, inside the White House and friendly to the White House were basically saying, look. There are some people thinking that it would be ideal to have sort of a V-shaped recovery where it goes down, but it comes up a little steeper. And maybe now it will be a U, where it would take just a bit longer, you know drag out a bit more.
Now it might turn out to be worse than a U. That bottom point may drag on a bit more. And this administration certainly thought going into the summer that we hit bottom. The public polling into heading into November now suggests the American people don't think --
VELSHI: Much more negative sentiment. Sentiment is negative
Ed, I look forward to it. I look forward to seeing you tomorrow, I look forward to seeing you on the weekend. Always a good time. And boy, you were a handsome young man, Ed. Ed, good to see you as always.
Ed Henry with "The Stakeout." Good to have him back from his interminably long vacation.
It's hard to get a traditional loan these days, but one bank is successfully lending to the poorest people on the planet, and they are paying that money back. Is this a business model we need to consider? I'll talk to the man who started it all. He's a Nobel Prize winner, and he's right with me in the studio on the other side.
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VELSHI: We interview a lot of fascinating people on this show, but this is a man I am a huge fan of. In fact, when we designed the concept of "Mission Possible," this is the man I had in mind. I reported on him for years, but now he's here for the first time with me in person.
His name is Muhammed Yunus, and he's the founder of Grameen Bank. He's also a recipient of the 2006 Nobel Peace Prize. But I'm going to get to that in a second. I want to tell you about Muhammed Yunus and Grameen Bank. He's known around the world as the banker to the poor around the world. He started this with $27 of his own money, which he lent out. Grameen Bank now has over 2,500 branches, four, by the way, of which are in the United States. In Queens, New York and in Omaha, Nebraska. The company has eight million borrowers; 97 percent of whom are women.
Now, let me tell you what they do. They're in the business of microloans. Microloans - basically, you've got a woman -- it doesn't have to be a woman, but this is where most of Grameen's business comes from, and I'll talk about that in a minute -- goes to the bank. Gets a loan that is micro, appropriate for the size of business she wants to start. In a developing country, sometimes that's not a lot of money to start a simple business.
The interest rate is high. Grameen Bank has some of the highest interest rates in the world. And this woman not only has to use that money to generate income to pay it back, but she's got to meet with her other fellow lenders every week, and they are together penalized if somebody defaults on the loan.
The result is, though, is that virtually no one defaults on the loan. Grameen Bank has one of the highest payback rates - possibly the highest - of any bank I've ever heard of. Ninety-eight percent loan recovery rate. This is fascinating.
I want to go and talk to Muhammed Yunus now. I'm so pleased you're here. Thank you for being with us. Let's talk about this. This is a gentleman was the recipient of the 2006 Nobel Prize, 2009 Presidential Medal of Freedom. And the author of a great book called "Building Social Business."
Tell me, after all this economic meltdown we've been through in the last few years, what is Grameen Bank doing? How is it doing, and what is it doing?
MUHAMMED YUNUS, FOUNDER, GRAMEEN BANK: It's doing very well. We had no problem with the meltdown or anything because we are very close to the real economy. We're not in a kind of fantasy economy where you chase papers. We may be giving loan - hundred-dollar loan, $50-dollar loan. The borrowers buy some chickens who produce eggs and sell at the market or produce baskets to sell in the market. So, it's very close. We're not impacted by the downturn.
VELSHI: What are the sizes of the loans you give?
YUNUS: In Grameen Bank, which is now about 32 years old, average today after all these years of work would be something around $200, just about $200.
VELSHI: And you said buying chickens or a stand or things like that. Really small loans. Why women?
YUNUS: Women were protesting against the conventional banks in Bangladesh when we began. We're saying you're wrong because you deny not only the poor people, you also deny women of any income level. Hardly you have -- not even one percent of the borrowers are women. So, you are completely away from women.
So when I began, I wanted to make sure I did the right thing. I said 50 percent of the borrowers in Grameen Bank would be women. So, I was trying to convince the women to come and join us. Poor women. But they said no, no, I'll give it to my husband. I don't know anything about money.
So, we said this is about their fears, their not having any experience. So, we're very patient. We waited and waited and continued to work with them. And finally, it took six years to come to this level. Then we saw money going to the family, to women. Brought so much more benefit to the family that compared to the same amount of money going to the family --
VELSHI: Why do you think that is?
YUNUS: Because women is a very special kind of characteristics, features. Not only in (INAUDIBLE) target Bangladeshi feature (ph). Now we see it's a (INAUDIBLE). When they earn income through their own effort, the first thing that happens is impact on the children of the family, her own children. So they're better fed, they're sent to school and so on.
But you don't see that happening when the father is the earner of the money. Women want to build up future for themselves. And they're very patient, working towards it. Women sacrifice more. They sacrifice today for tomorrow. Men show tendency to enjoy right away, rather than wait for tomorrow because he thinks "I can take care of tomorrow." So, these are all things that --
VELSHI: Interesting. So, the confidence sometimes men come with sometimes is dangerous because they don't think to save that money.
All right. I want to take a quick break. I'm going to come back. I want to talk to you about a couple of things. Number one, how we can do this better in the United States. And you put a toe into that water. And number two, talk about fantasies. You actually want to eradicate poverty in the world. I want to discuss that with you when we come back.
My conversation with Mohammed Yunus, our "Mission Possible," continues after the break.
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VELSHI: That's a quote by Mohammed Yunus. "Each individual, each human being has the power to change the world. You have it. Are you going to use that power to change the world?" You made that quote on May 18 at a commencement speech at Duke University.
You described what you do in Bangladesh. You do it in America now, too. I said it was in Queens, but you have branches in Queens, in Brooklyn, in Manhattan, in Omaha, Nebraska.
YUNUS: Bronx, too.
VELSHI: Bronx. It's the same model?
YUNUS: Same, exactly the same. Exactly the way we do it in Bangladi villages. We just took it as it is in New York City. People say, are you crazy? You're doing it in the United States. This is a different country. I said, people are the same all over the world. They need money, you are giving them the money and they change the world. They want to create their own business.
VELSHI: Mostly women?
YUNUS: A hundred percent women in New York City. In Bangladesh, 97 percent woman.
VELSHI: Average loan in New York City is probably bigger?
YUNUS: About $1,500 in New York City. In Bangladesh, $200.
VELSHI: What are they using it for in New York City?
YUNUS: New York City, they're using it for baby care. To take care of the babies, daycare centers. Or pet care. To take care of the pets that people have. It's a good business. And making cakes and breads and so on.
Each one has a very interesting business. Someone making clothes, designs and so on.
They have the skill. They never could use that. Or they work for somebody as a cleaner; lost their job. So, sitting around, they say, why don't I do it myself. She didn't have the equipment, she didn't have the (INAUIDBLE) or all the things that you need to do that. So, she couldn't do that. So with the loan, she now has all the supplies and the equipment and so on. She's in business by herself.
VELSHI: Your recovery rate, your repayment rate is as high in New York as in --
YUNUS: In New York, it is better than Bangladesh.
VELSHI: Really?
YUNUS: Yes, indeed. It's 99.3 percent here; in Bangladesh, it's 97.
VELSHI: Your interest rates are very high. Why is that?
YUNUS: You said it's highest. It's not really so. It's very close to the commercial bank interest in Bangladesh. In many countries, have different kind of interest rate. Our commercial banking rate in Bangladesh would be something like 14 percent.
We charge -- and 14 percent with quarterly compounding. Ours is 20 percent, simple interest. It's never compounded. So, it comes very close to each other. And we deliver the service at the doorstep. They don't have to come to our office. So, our expense is a little bit more. And the deposit rate, because all our money comes from deposits --
VELSHI: The way banks used to be?
YUNUS: Exactly! The way banks used to be. We do the same as the banks are supposed to be. We're (INAUDIBLE) bank. That's why I say we're close to the real economy. We do exactly the way banks are supposed to be. Intermediary between the depositors and the borrowers. And we offer them 12 percent interest on their deposits.
So, margin between the 12 percent and the 20 percent is not much. And we're delivering the service case by case. And we collect the money weekly basis, in installments --
VELSHI: Oh, that's interesting. Because you collect it weekly, and there are these meetings.
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VELSHI: Everybody has to get together. Tell us about that. Tell us why that's important.
YUNUS: Because poor people are not required to come to our office. Hundreds of thousands of people keep walk into the office, this will never happen. This will never work.
And they feel comfortable. They use the time to do the job rather than spending time waiting in line at the office somewhere. (INAUDIBLE) we say all principle, people shouldn't go to the bank. Banks should go to the people. And that's what we've translated. We have 8 million borrowers in Bangladesh and all over the country. And it's our staff to go all these 8 million borrowers on their doorstep every week. Made them do the business at the doorstep. And makes so simple for them.
VELSHI: I'll let my viewers judge as to whether this system will work in the U.S. You've shown that it can.
I'm going to take a break. When we come back, we'll talk about your end goal, and that's ending poverty in the United States. Mohammed Yunus, founder of Grameen Bank, Nobel Prize winner. For more information, go to my blog at CNN.com./ali. I'll have my "XYZ" for the first time with somebody else after this break.
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VELSHI: Time now for "XYZ." It's something I normally do alone, but my guest today is so fascinating that I want to continue this discussion. I have not talked to Mohammed Yunus, Nobel Prize winner, founder of Grameen Bank, banker to the poor in the world, in your fourth decade now doing it. Because I have one question for you. And that is, you had a goal -- you once stated you had a goal of eradicating poverty in the world. Is that a fantasy, or is that still your goal? And how do you achieve it?
YUNUS: It's still my goal. It's very doable thing. If you say you want to go to the moon in the 1950s, people say you're a crazy guy. But we did that. The world has done that. Gone beyond moon. If you say I want my phone in my pocket a few years back, people say crazy, you're out of my mind. If you say you'll connect to the whole world and send text and messages --
Is it more difficult than that? Helping people get out of poverty? We're talking about human beings, full-blooded human beings, very creative. Unlimited potential in every individual. Simply they are deprived of opportunities. Simply we build a system that doesn't work for them. Like I mentioned, the bank doesn't work for them. Why? There's no reason.
We talk about microcredit. Not only they're receiving the money. This bank is owned by them. This bank, Grameen Bank, is owned by the borrowers of Grameen Bank. They are the owners of the biggest bank in the country. It's possible.
A few years back, people said this guy is totally crazy. But this is the reality today. We are working in if New York City. And people say no way you can do that. Nearly 100 percent repayment. And it can be done all over the United States. There's no reason why anybody can't take money and build their own future. (INAUDIBLE)
So, social buisness is another idea --
VELSHI: That's what your book is about.
YUNUS: That's what my book is about. All we do is make money out of the business. There's no reason why we can't do the business to change the world. Technology, social business, microcredit. Put them together, it's one step up. We should be putting poverty in the museum.
VELSHI: Yes. In the museum. I like it. Putting poverty in the museum. Thank you for being with us.
YUNUS: Thank you.
VELSHI: We will follow this progress closely, and we hope you achieve that goal of eradicating private around the world.
YUNUS: And soon. And soon.
VELSHI: Dr. Muhammed Yunus.
That's it for me. Rick, over to you.
