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Beck, Sharpton Hold Competing Rallies; Conservative Values and Civil Rights; Nagin Reflects on Katrina; Crisis in Pakistan Continues; Interview with Gen. Russel Honore

Aired August 28, 2010 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, we're live in the city nearly wiped off the map by a killer hurricane five years ago. A storm that changed the way the entire country feels about natural disasters. We'll talk with New Orleans' hero General Russel Honore and show you how the "Who Dat" nation is rising once again.

And another storm of sorts is brewing in the nation's capital right now. It's over who can claim ownership of Dr. King's civil rights dream. The Reverend Al Sharpton joins me this hour.

New hope tonight for 33 men trapped a half-mile underground. We can hear them. We can see them. But will they be rescued before Christmas?

Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.

Extensive coverage live from the New Orleans French Quarter, where not far from here the president will speak tomorrow to mark the fifth anniversary of the hurricane that changed so many lives.

But first on this anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech," two large competing rallies were held today in Washington, each laying claim to Dr. King's message at the Lincoln Memorial, where King delivered his iconic speech 47 years ago. The focus was not a civil rights leader but conservative firebrand and Fox TV host Glenn Beck. He said his event would, quote, "reclaim the civil rights movement." Beck told the large crowd that America has grown too cynical.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, FOX NEWS HOST AND RALLY ORGANIZER: Are we so jaded as a nation? Are we so pessimistic that we no longer believe in the individual and the power of the individual? Do we no longer believe in dreams and the power of one person making a difference? I testify to you here and now, one man can change the world!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And not far away, the Reverend Al Sharpton echoed King's 1963 march on Washington, with a rally and march to the site of the planned King memorial. Sharpton and other civil right leaders were clearly annoyed at Beck for taking over the Lincoln Memorial on this date, but Sharpton refused to concede the day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON, ORGANIZER, "RECLAIM THE DREAM: They told me that others are going be at the Mall and they're going to be standing where Dr. King stood. Well, they may have the Mall, but we have the message. They may have the platform, but we have the dream.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Beck says he did not know that today would be the anniversary of the King speech when he applied for the rally permit but once he learned of the date's historic significance, this is what he had to say about it on his radio program in May.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BECK: This is a moment quite honestly that I think we reclaim the civil rights movement. It has been so distorted and so turned upside down because we must repair honor and integrity and honesty first. I tell you right now. We are on the right side of history. We are on the side of individual freedoms and liberties, and damn it we will reclaim the civil rights moment. We will take that movement because we were the people that did it in the first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Our Shannon Travis was at the Beck rally and I spoke with him about the diversity of the crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: The message from Glenn Beck's rally was obviously about coming together in unity. There was not a whole lot of coming together in terms of ethnicity, however. You did see some African-Americans in the crowd. That could not be refuted. But, by and large, the crowd was mostly white. Women and men, but definitely mostly white.

Another thing to note, though, it seems as if a lot of the attendees at the rally are particularly sensitive to claims, notions, stereotypes that they are somehow racist. We saw a lot of people out in the crowd saying, you know, do I look like a racist. We saw other people with t-shirts saying racist with a circle and a line drawn through it.

Although there wasn't -- there was definitely a lack of diversity in the crowd. It seems a lot of the attendees are particularly sensitive to it. And again with the message, with Martin Luther King Jr.'s message of equality and unity, a lot of them stressed that. So, there was a lack of diversity, but there was definitely an embrace of an ideal of coming together.

LEMON: And, Shannon, you know, people at the Beck rally were promised a non-political event. Is that what they got? TRAVIS: By and large, yes. Beck asked people who were attending to not carry any kind of overtly political sign. Most of the crowd again honored that request. There were a smattering, and I really mean in the minority of people who were carrying the tea party banners or the classic tea party flags that they carry, "Don't tread on me." Other people with some signs about Obama.

But again, it was definitely in the minority. So, by and large, it was a non-political event that basically touched on things of integrity and truth and honor. That was actually the name of the event, "Restoring Honor to the Country."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And we will have more on today's competing rallies including an in-depth discussion on who owns Dr. King's dream.

We want to turn now to our coverage of Hurricane Katrina. It crashed into the Gulf Coast five years ago Sunday, tomorrow. Now here in New Orleans, there are places where everything seems normal, almost like nothing ever happened. But just around the corner, there are vivid reminders of what did happen and what hasn't been made right.

Now you might remember the painful images. We all do. For the rest of this hour, we are going to explore the whole range of issues pushed forward by Hurricane Katrina, issues like race and class and the government's response. And I will talk about it with the man who was mayor, Ray Nagin. I will also talk with the man none of us has ever heard of before Hurricane Katrina, but who none of us would ever forget once he arrived on the scene. We'll hear from General Russel Honore himself.

Plus, we will head next door to Mississippi, where the storm wreaked havoc across the entire state coastline, and we will show you an inspiring example of how people there pulled together.

And still ahead here tonight -

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I, too, have a dream. It is in my genes. I have a dream that one day soon --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Who owns the dream? The niece of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. uses the famous words of her uncle at a rally today in Washington, but not at the rally that paid tribute to the civil rights icon.

The Reverend Al Sharpton joins us to talk about his rally and what he thinks about the competing rally that took place at the Lincoln Memorial.

Plus, much, much more this hour on the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina and its effect on the entire Gulf Coast, including this Mississippi town. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just made human judgments and those people who needed help, we gave help.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What kind of help?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cash.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They looked after the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: One bank's investment in its community in the days and weeks following the storm that yielded a huge return.

And we want you to be part of the show tonight, be a part of the conversation. Make sure you follow us on Twitter or send us a message on Twitter and Facebook and check out our blog at cnn.com/don for more information on our stories and you can check us out on Foursquare as well. We want to hear from you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Dr. Martin Luther King's refrain of "I Have a Dream" is one of the most famous sound bytes in recent American history. Today, those words were echoed by his niece, Alveda King, at the Glenn Beck rally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVEDA KING, DR. KING'S NIECE: I, too, have a dream. It is in my genes. I have a dream that one day soon, God's love will transcend color and economic status and cause us to turn from moral turpitudes.

I have a dream that America will repent of the sin of racism and return to honor. I have a dream. Yes, I have a dream that white privilege will become human privilege and that people of every ethnic blend will receive everyone as brothers and sisters in the love of God. I have a dream. I have a dream that America will pray and God will forgive us our sins and revive us our land.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, of course, this raises a question about who actually owns Dr. King's dream. Does the conservative message resonate with African-Americans today? Robert Traynham and John Avlon are here with me tonight.

But first, Glenn Beck took much of the media spotlight, but the Reverend Al Sharpton held a competing rally to mark the 47th anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech. I spoke with Rev. Sharpton tonight and I asked him what he thinks of Beck's rally on this date and at that location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SHARPTON: Well, I mean, I think, first of all, this is the anniversary of Dr. King's speech where he outlined his dream. Some very clear social policy, calling on a strong federal government to protect us against state's rights and states in opposing and nullifying federal law.

So I think that when I hear what you just played, because I didn't watch his rally. We were at our rally and marching. When he talks about the character of some great leaders and leadership abilities, that might be good. But that's not what the "I Have a Dream" day is about. This is not about King's birthday. This is his policy speech day.

Our rally was to talk about the dream -- the goals of the dream, the goals of Dr. King's speech and where they are and where they are not today. So I think we were meeting on two different things.

LEMON: And paraphrasing Glenn Beck here, Reverend, he said when he picked this date, he didn't realize it was the same date as Dr. King's "Dream," but after thinking about it, he realized there was a moment and that maybe the stars had aligned in some way, it was supposed to happen and to use his message to take back in some way or to reclaim the civil rights movement.

SHARPTON: Well, you didn't have to ask yourself after what you heard. Did he reclaim it? I mean, because what civil rights agenda did he lay out?

From what I'm seeing, it was a motivation speech. That didn't do with civil rights. Civil rights is what we dealt with. The fact that people of color in this country, blacks are still doubly unemployed. The fact that there is an education gap four or five grades between black students and white school students, three grades with Latino students. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan was there.

We talked about the criminal justice system. That is civil rights.

So, if his intention was to deal with civil rights, he should have addressed civil rights issues. A motivation speech, I think is not necessary -- it might be good but it's not civil rights.

LEMON: And Reverend, I have to ask you this. I asked our producer who was reporting on this, he went to Glenn Beck's rally. And I want to ask this question. It's from one of our viewers, and it says, "Don, I bet Beck's rally today was more racially diverse than Sharpton's, so which side is more racist? And that's coming from someone on Twitter. Can you respond to that, Reverend?

SHARPTON: Well, first of all, they would be wrong. We had people of all races there -- whites, blacks. We'll show footage of the march. And the speakers, whites -- Arne Duncan spoke, Michael Mulgrew, the head of the teachers' union in New York, spoke. Ed Schultz spoke among other whites. Latinos -- the head of the Hispanic federation spoke. Every major civil rights leader. The head of the Urban League, the head of NAACP. Gay and lesbian activists spoke. So I don't know what they -- if you had gay and lesbian activists, head of women's group, heads of labor, heads of -- that are white organizations and Latinos, I don't know how you get more diverse than that. I don't know how diverse Mr. Beck's rally was. But ours was very diverse. You can't fight for civil rights for anyone unless you are fighting for everyone.

LEMON: The Reverend Al Sharpton joining us from New York. Reverend, thank you so much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And we're going to dig deeper now on what Reverend Al Sharpton was talking about. His question, do conservatives care about African-Americans? I will pose that question to John Avlon and Robert Traynham right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tonight, in our partnership with "Essence" magazine called "What Matters," we talked about Glenn Beck. He said that he would use his rally today at the Lincoln Memorial to, quote, "reclaim civil rights." It's an extremely unconventional statement coming from a staunch conservative like Beck at the place and anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech. And to put it simply, the conservative message and civil rights have rarely been linked together.

Robert Traynham is the Washington bureau chief for Comcast Network and he is in Philadelphia tonight. And in Washington, John Avlon, a regular contributor to TheDailyBeast and to CNN as well.

John, I want to read something that someone wrote to me after we finished our show earlier and this is from someone on Twitter. He said, "Don, Glenn Beck can relate to MLK?" That's a question there. "That was a moment in time when people were being denied basic rights. What is he denied?"

John, is that -- what do you say to that question? Does she have a point?

JOHN AVLON, COLUMNIST, THEDAILYBEAST.COM: Yes. It's a fundamentally different time in American history in a way that I think it's difficult for some people to appreciate. And while we all elevate and recognize Dr. King as a great American, those folks who would say that they can reclaim his legacy or somehow carry on his mantle might not appreciate just how controversial a figure he was, how much resistance he ran into, and the realities of that time, which is why a lot of folks are left wondering if it was remotely appropriate for Glenn Beck to talk about reclaiming civil rights. For some, he didn't even try to do in the rally.

LEMON: Robert, I will ask you that same question.

ROBERT TRAYNHAM, D.C BUREAU CHIEF, COMCAST NETWORK: Well, look, I think we need to put this into perspective. What would Dr. King want to do? And he obviously said he wanted to dream. Well, he had a dream and that dream was for all people of all colors to come together as one and to be able to confront some of the problems that the country was facing back in 1963 and 1964.

Fast forward to 2010, does Glenn Beck -- does he understand what African-Americans are going through? Of course not, because he is not African-American. Can he certainly empathize to a certain degree? Of course he can.

So, you know, it's very easy for someone to armchair quarterback and say, well, you know what, this person can feel this way or this person can't feel this way because of x, y or z. I think the point is -- is whether or not he is sincere in what he says when he thinks that he can transcend race and that he can bring two sides together, both black and white, or brown people and white people together and to try to move this country forward.

So, I commend him for that. So, you know, I think it's OK for him to be at the Lincoln Memorial. I think it's OK for him to say what he thinks. I mean, after all, it is a free country.

LEMON: Right. I don't think anyone -- I don't think anyone is saying that he doesn't have the right to do it. But it is the same question that has been posed over and over with this Islamic center and mosque down near ground zero, whether or not -- no one is saying that people don't have the right to do it, but the question is, what about the wisdom, as the president said, of doing it? What about the sensitivity, Robert?

TRAYNHAM: Well, there's no question about it that you have to be sensitive to other people's thoughts and their feelings. You certainly have to be sensitive to people's cultures and so forth. So, yes. I mean, should he had been more a little bit sensitive to African-Americans, particularly those who had horrible memories of the civil rights movement? Yes. I would concur that he probably would have been more sensitive to that.

LEMON: And, John, I hear you want to get in on this. Go ahead.

AVLON: Well, let's talk about this in real time. I mean, you know -- you know, President Obama is in many ways the result of the embodiment of Dr. King's dream. I mean, we are in a fundamentally different place in the nation than could have been conceived 47 years ago. But this is also a president who Glenn Beck has repeatedly said racist with a deep-seated hatred of white people.

That hurts your credibility a little bit, when you're talking about being a uniter rather than a divider. And that's the cross a lot of this difficulty. I know we can get in to history of conservative populism as well, and the unfortunate fact that diversity deficits that exist between the two parties. We need to be working to bridge that. We need a lot more work of bridging that. And Glenn Beck is not the best symbol of that striving for unity.

LEMON: You know, Robert, you mentioned earlier about whether or not you believed Glenn Beck's message about wanting to, you know, reclaim the civil rights movement. But there are many people who believed that this is a publicity stunt in the sense that Glenn Beck is using this moment and the place where he did it to raise his own platform and that the media is falling into it by reporting on it so much. He could have said the same thing on his radio show or on his television show where he has a huge platform as well and probably more people than he got -- than he assembled today in Washington.

TRAYNHAM: Well, let's be clear, Don. First and foremost, we need to put this in context. Glenn Beck is a shock jock that just so happens to be on television. He is all about ratings. He is all about being provocative. He is all about being thought provoking. So when you put it in that context, when I make the argument that Glenn Beck is doing this for self-promotion, probably.

However, I do believe that he is sincere when he believes that this country is going down the right the wrong path. That is his opinion. That is his point of view. He is entitled to it. Clearly, there are tens of thousands, if not millions of people that follow that line of thinking, and he has every right to think that and to say that.

So, yes, it's a publicity. No question about it. But I do believe he is sincere in his thoughts. I am not sure I agree with it 100 percent, but again, his points are very well valid.

LEMON: So, listen, though, you work for Republicans on Capitol Hill. I would assume, maybe I'm wrong, that you are conservative. So, are conservatives delivering on African-Americans as far as voters? Do conservatives have African-Americans at heart when they're thinking about policies and what have your? What are conservatives doing in that sense?

TRAYNHAM: Well, when you take a look at the African-American community as a whole and take a look at Republican policy, to our conservative policy, they are pretty much in sync - the sanctity of marriage, school choice, making sure that folks out there have the right to be able to bear arms and so forth. Those are in sync...

LEMON: Robert -- Robert, listen, listen, I understand -- I understand where you're going and you're talking about - when you're talking about conservatives. I do think that African-Americans, socially, usually are conservatives in some sense. But then, why aren't Republicans getting African-American -- getting the African- American vote? Barack Obama got 90 percent of the vote when he ran.

TRAYNHAM: Well, if I could -- I was going to finish that point. And the reason why is because Republicans over the last, I would say, 40 to 50 years have not done a very good job of communicating the conservative message to the African-American community.

We know the story, Don. It's very simple. Democrats take African-Americans votes for granted. Republicans for a long, long time have ignored that. But when you take a look at Michael Steele, who is an African-American, who is the chairman of the Republican Party, he has made significant inroads within the African-African community to say, look, not only do I look like you, not only am I one of you, but I am also believing that my message resonates with you and I also understand that this is not a message or this is not a policy that is going happen overnight. This is something that's going to happen probably over the next generation or so.

So, there is no question about it that the Republican Party needs to do more work within the black community.

LEMON: And John -- John, I want to ask you this. I want John to get in here because we're running out of time. John, I want to give you the last word.

Listen, Glenn Beck for the most part does not appeal to the majority of African-Americans. So where might this end up? Is this -- can this backfire? And people become upset because of the venue, because of the date? Or might he win over some African-Americans by saying he's going to reclaim the civil rights movement?

AVLON: I don't think that's the goal and I don't think that's going happen. But there is a real need. Republicans and conservatives need to understand how they got this diversity deficit. The Republican Party was the party of Lincoln. African-Americans voted overwhelmingly Republican for a hundred years and in 1964, there was total realignment based on the Civil Rights Act.

That effort, Michael Steele recruited over 30 African-American candidates to run was a step in the right direction. But conservatives and Republicans need to understand how they ended up on the wrong side of history with civil rights and really, really deal with that. And then we can get to a place as a nation where we get over the fact that our political parties are polarized along racial lines too often, and that is a real problem in our democracy. We need to transcend and we're going to do it by genuinely reaching out, not trying to play political football with the legacy of Martin Luther King.

LEMON: John Avlon, Robert Traynham, thanks to both of you.

AVLON: Thank you.

TRAYNHAM: Thank you.

LEMON: General Russel Honore brought calm to the chaos that unfolded in Katrina's aftermath, leading a massive relief effort along the storm-ravaged Gulf Coast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get those down!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Tonight, the general looks back with us, but also ahead to the future of New Orleans. That's straight ahead here on CNN.

But first, waiting for rescue. Thirty-three miners have been trapped for nearly three weeks half a mile underground. Now the time frame to get them up to the surface may be shorter than first thought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. Back to Don in New Orleans in just a couple of minutes.

First though, a check of today's top stories.

Engineers in Chile have come up with a new plan to free 33 trapped miners in just two months. That is half the time previously estimated. They hope to begin using a new drill in the next several days. If this plan doesn't work, the miners may be freed by the end of the year.

Three Americans were killed in two separate attacks in Afghanistan today. Two of the U.S. servicemen died in a bombing in the southern region. The third was killed in an insurgent attack in eastern Afghanistan. Also today, Afghan and coalition soldiers fought off attacks on two military bases. More that 20 insurgents were killed.

Guards opened fire last night to stop what was described as a major riot in California's Folsom State Prison. The riot broke out in the prison's main yard and involved about 200 inmates. Nobody was killed but seven inmates were injured. It is not clear what triggered the violence.

Paris Hilton is in trouble again. Hilton was released from a Las Vegas jail this morning after she was arrested on suspicion of cocaine possession Friday night. She was arrested after prosecutors determined she was not a flight risk. No court date was announced. Last month, Hilton was briefly detained in South Africa. Police said she was smoking marijuana, but the case was later dropped.

Engineers will start work Monday to remove the temporary cap that put an end to the BP oil spill. That so they can raise the failed blowout preventer, which is a key piece of evidence to determining what caused the disaster. The government does not expect any more oil to spill as the cap is removed because mud and cement were pumped in to seal the leak.

More than 1000 sea turtles have been injured by the Gulf oil spill and half of those died from their injuries. The fight to save those turtles has gotten a lot of attention, but this week's CNN hero, Oscar Aranda, has been doing the same thing for years along the Pacific coast of Mexico with little fanfare.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OSCAR ARANDA, CNN HERO: In a sad way, the turtles are endangered because of us.

Last year we can have 200,000 turtles coming to lay their eggs, but this year we are 50 percent less. In Mexico, this is a federal offense. And the people is not supposed to poach them, but the people believe the eggs offer aphrodisiac. So, this is happening always and everywhere.

My name is Oscar Aranda, and I'm patrolling the Puerto Vallarta beaches to protect the marine turtles. Many animals depend on marine turtles to survive. When I saw how the poachers take them for selling in the black market, that was really the spark that showed me how important it is to help them.

You have to be there all night. A turtle comes, and if you are not there and poachers say, well, let's take it. After they lay their eggs, that's it. The babies are alone. She returns into the ocean.

It was right here. We find the nest. We get the eggs and we bring them into a safe place, like a turtle hatchery. As soon as the babies hatch we want the people to see them and learn to give the opportunity to be part of releasing a baby turtle or something that they will never forget.

My motivation is how brave the turtles are to survive. Against all odds, they continue coming. It's amazing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Since 2004, Oscar and his organization have released more than half a million baby turtles back into the wild. You can see Oscar in action protecting sea turtles on our website at cnnheroes.com.

And just ahead, back to Don, live in New Orleans. Katrina devastated the Gulf region, but did it devastate some political careers as well?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said there was no way in hell I'm going to be governor. So, I might as well do something else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Former Mayor Ray Nagin talks about the devastation of his city and what he wishes he could change about his handling of the crisis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're live in the now beautiful city of New Orleans, a city that was really wrecked by Hurricane Katrina. CNN's special coverage of the five-year anniversary of that storm continues the man at the center of the storm in this city back then, the man who was mayor, Ray Nagin. He is no longer in office, but he still has some very strong opinions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you have any regrets about that time? About anything that happened? What are the regrets?

RAY NAGIN, FORMER NEW ORLEANS MAYOR: Well, you know, I'm kind of a guy who makes decisions and just moves on. I don't -- I don't think about them a whole lot. But I do reflect on certain things and I have been doing that a lot. You know, the mandatory evacuation could have been a little earlier.

LEMON: So that is a regret? You want the evacuation to be early? How much early?

NAGIN: I think it could have been done about eight hours earlier. It was a period of time after I spoke with Max Mayfield, which was about 9:00 that night and we called evacuation about the same time that next morning. We could have done it a little earlier but it was the first one.

LEMON: Was it your fault?

NAGIN: I am -- I am the ultimate guy. Yes.

LEMON: So you take responsibility for not evacuating the city earlier?

NAGIN: Absolutely.

LEMON: Do you remember the chocolate city comment?

NAGIN: How could I forget it.

LEMON: The Ray Nagin coloring book?

LEMON: I saw that coloring book, you know, when it came out, but I never really got into it.

LEMON: Do you get the humor? Does it tick you off? Are you OK with that?

NAGIN: You know, I think that's kind of crossing the line. I mean, that's -- it got some racial undertones in it. You know, black man as a bunny rabbit. I mean, come on.

LEMON: I was driving in Mississippi and listening to the radio and I heard live, "get off your ass and get moving to New Orleans."

NAGIN: Yes. Excuse me, everybody in America, but I am pissed. That was a lot of frustration, man. I was, you know, in the middle of the disaster. I was at the Superdome. I was in the Hyatt. I was in the streets. And, you know, it just wasn't moving. And more importantly, I was watching people in Baton Rouge and Washington and saying everything was OK. And it was just a ball-faced lie. So, I kind of lost it. I got a little temper.

LEMON: How do you define success after Katrina? Because New Orleans is sort of at the bottom when it comes to poverty. All of these issues, jobs, everything. Is it getting back to the level where it was? Or is it getting better than it was, you know, before Katrina?

NAGIN: I think it's getting better. I mean...

LEMON: How do you define success?

NAGIN: I define success in any city -- a city is about its people. And we ere a city that had no people in it. Now we have over 80 percent its population back. Lowest unemployment in the country. Construction everywhere. I think we're on our way to success.

LEMON: Did you have aspirations beyond mayor before Katrina? Was Katrina the reason that you -- because you have said, "I'm done with politics."

NAGIN: You know, I am an executive, so I don't -- I'm not a legislator. So, there were only two real roles that I thought I could play, and that was mayor or governor. But when I saw results from the Obama election, I said there was no way in hell I'm going to be governor. So, I might as well do something else.

LEMON: Explain that.

NAGIN: Well, only I thought that Obama would win Louisiana. I thought he would get an overwhelming majority of the African-American vote, which he did, but I thought he would at least get 25 percent of the white vote, but he got like 8 or 9 percent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And despite the controversy surrounding Katrina, Ray Nagin won reelection as New Orleans' mayor in 2006. He left office earlier this year after serving two terms. Now Nagin tells me these days despite his love for the Saints, he rarely goes inside the Superdome. The memories are just too painful, he says.

Well, you know, Pakistan is facing its own Katrina right now. More than 1600 people have died and millions have fled the floodwaters. We are live amid the devastation, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now live in New Orleans, a city that's on demand and on its way to recovery here. And we know what happened five years ago. This is the fifth year anniversary of New Orleans and you are looking at pictures of Jackson Square right now. The fifth year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. And, you know, New Orleans bears the scars from Katrina.

Again, on demand to Pakistan right now. Their pain is still being inflicted by flooding. The death toll has climbed above 1600. And the country where the flooding has been is unbelievable. And the UN is warning, the aid effort just isn't enough.

CNN's Sara Sidner joins us now from Sukkur, Pakistan, with the very latest.

Sara, what is the situation there like where you are right now?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's interesting because there really are some parallels to Hurricane Katrina. But we're talking about an area that is much, much larger, 62,000 square miles, an area larger than the size of England. And so you can imagine how many people that's affected. It's estimated about 17 million, according to the UN, people have been affected by this flood. And still there are people on high alerts. Still there are people worried that the levees in their area may burst because of the pressure from the water as it comes down the Indus River.

So, you have basically three phases going on here, people that are affected by the flood. You have those who are on high alert, getting ready to leave their towns and villages.

There are those who have left, who have made it to the camps and who are there and they are becoming very, very worried about the amount of aid coming in, but also worried about disease especially among children who are getting gastroenteritis and diarrhea and vomiting and they're becoming very, very sick and needing medical attention.

And lastly, you have those who are inching their way back to the areas where their homes were. They're not sure exactly if they're going to find anything standing and oftentimes, they don't.

Very painful situation here, Don.

LEMON: Now we know some aid is coming as you talked about how much aid. That was a concern. But is it getting through to many of the victims or is it reaching enough people there, Sara?

SIDNER: It's really a good question and a hard one to answer because there are people all over a huge area who all need help. There is one group of people for sure that are really having a difficulty getting aid and those are the people that the government says are still cut off. We're talking around 800,000 people who the government says are cut off. They are surrounded by water on slivers of land. Some people stayed back trying to save their land. They didn't want to leave it, worried about, for example, robbers coming in, hoping that the water did not get high enough to strand them, but it did.

So, they are relying upon helicopter drops, and there are only so many helicopters. The U.N. a couple of days ago asking for 40 more helicopters to come into this country that can carry heavy loads so that water and food can get to these people.

There's another parallel here. You're talking about fifth year anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. The president here is quoted as saying that he believes the rebuilding here in Pakistan will take five years, but then added that he doesn't think this country will ever be the same. And I know there are still issues there when you work at Hurricane Katrina in the Lower Ninth Ward. Some of the things that you are seeing there, the situation here is much, much worse and there is so much more to be rebuild here. So, it's going to be a long, long process -- Don.

LEMON: Yes, it is devastating. Epic proportions there. Thank you very much, Sara Sidner in Sukkur, Pakistan.

You know, he was called the John Wayne dude by then Mayor Ray Nagin and led the massive relief effort in New Orleans after Katrina battered the city.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get those down! Get those down!

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LEMON: And tonight, he reflects back on his actions, his troops and the city's long road to recovery. My interview with General Russel Honore, next.

Plus this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD CHEERING)

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LEMON: How the "Who Dat" nation got its groove back. This remarkable story of faith and determination straight ahead from New Orleans.

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LEMON: After Hurricane Katrina, General Russel Honore was a welcome sight to see him along with his troops. He is now retired and he is a CNN contributor, and we spoke to him just moments ago about his thoughts five years after the hurricane.

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LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE (RET.), CNN CONTRIBUTOR: You know, Don, a lot of things have gotten so much better. And just this week, the federal government has put another $1.8 billion to rebuild the school. A few months ago, they committed money to redo the VA hospital and the VA Charity Hospital. Things are getting better but we still have got a long ways to go to help the poor people get back in their homes because they didn't get a fair break on the home program. And I think that for the fact that the Secretary of Urban Development was here this week and Housing, they want to fix that.

LEMON: When you came in here five years ago -- and we saw you with the cigar, did you think five years later that we'd be to this point, or did you think, oh, my gosh, how am I going to fix this mess?

HONORE: Well, I thought we would be here but I knew it would take longer than people anticipated. You know, the French Quarter central business district looks good. There is much work left to be done in the Ninth Ward and in St. Bernard Parish and Lower Plaquemines Parish. People need to remember that.

The federal government made a promise, they will fix what was undone by the levee breaking. And there is much work, but I think we are on track. The FEMA has got the right attitude. SBA has the right attitude. Health and Human Services put a lot of money in here in here in the last five years. This city is going to be in better shape and stronger than it was before Katrina.

LEMON: You're hopeful. And you know what? You're winning the war. This is from the American Red Cross. You won an award for -- just tonight, but you say part of that is from the volunteers who came in and you said that is what's really going to take to rebuild this city.

HONORE: Volunteers, they finished hundreds of homes around the city. They come from all over America and foreign countries, from college students to retirees and church groups. They have made such a difference in this town. And this is where volunteers who make such a big difference.

Tonight, we're doing a fundraising in New Orleans, hoping to raise a quarter million dollars for the Red Cross here in New Orleans.

But let us not forget, Don, as we look back on Katrina, let's look at the present. Right now, we have got fellow human beings in Pakistan that need help. Sanjay Gupta was there this morning. He laid it out very clear. These are poor people. They don't have the option.

Let all of America look out the night and see how through the American Red Cross or whoever, go to CNN website and let's help our friends in Pakistan. I have been there. I met a lot of the people over the years. I know many of the members of the Pakistan Army. They deserve our help now. Let's help them.

LEMON: And they are suffering much. There are more people involved that are suffering as much if not more than the people of New Orleans suffered in Hurricane Katrina.

Thank you very much for giving us -- this is the final word on this for five years and we appreciate it. Final word on our show, at least. It's not the final word for...

HONORE: Well, bless you, Don. And let's focus on those who are suffering now. That's a lesson from Katrina. These people would need help after a natural disaster.

LEMON: Thank you, General.

HONORE: Help the people of Pakistan through the Red Cross.

LEMON: Thank you, General.

HONORE: Bless you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: And still ahead, the team that helped the "Who Dat" nation get its groove back.

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LEMON: "Who Dat" say they're going to beat them Saints, a rallying cry heard for years in New Orleans, really the whole state of Louisiana. But it took on new meaning last season. The team rose from the ashes to the top of the NFL. Now the city is trying to emulate them.

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LEMON (voice over): This is Saints' country, The "Who Dat" nation, as in -- (PEOPLE CHANTING "WHO, WHO, WHO")

LEMON: An unusual way of speaking, befitting an unorthodox group of fans who for years stood by their perpetually losing football team, the New Orleans Saints.

In the 1980's, the team was so bad fans donned paper bags to cover their faces, but Saints diehard Lionel Alphonso Sr. turned to divine intervention for help.

LIONEL ALPHONSO, "DA POPE": I'm wearing this outfit now, but back then, I donned brown paper bags because I can't lie, I'm "Da Pope". I wore that.

LEMON: Alphonso is now known worldwide as "Da Pope" of the Saints. And in 1999, was one of the first fans ever to be inducted into the Football Hall of Fame.

(on camera): The first fan in the Hall of Fame.

ALPHONSO: Right.

LEMON: What do you think of that?

ALPHONSO: I love that.

LEMON (voice over): Then in 2005, all hell broke loose on the city in the team's home, the Superdome.

Even "Da Pope" was powerless against Hurricane Katrina's destruction, but the entire "Who Dat" nation stuck by their team and prayed the boys in black and gold would stay in the Big Easy and they did in a big way.

ALPHONSO: You know, to actually see football players put hammers and saws in their hands and go build houses, that, you know, that's amazing.

LEMON: Then came the 2009 season. The team once known as "The Ain'ts" won the Super Bowl, world champion. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm still in shock. To hear you say the world champion New Orleans Saints. It picks me up every time. Here's hoping the Saints will carry us through again this year.

LEMON: Faith, a recurring theme here in Louisiana. And every Sunday, their miracle team, a statewide call to worship. "We will" is no doubt the chant of the rest of the NFL.

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LEMON: You can't walk two feet here in New Orleans without hearing that. I'm Don Lemon live in New Orleans. Again, we will see you back here tomorrow night at 6, 7, and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. I want to tell you that President Obama will be here tomorrow to see how the city is recovering for himself, a big day in the Big Easy tomorrow.

We're going to leave you with those sights right there. Cafe Du Monde right here across Jackson Square in the French Quarter. And if you've ever been here, I'm sure you've had the vignettes (ph) and coffee. It's all good. Very fattening. Very sweet. But it is indicative of New Orleans, and we love it.

I'll see you here tomorrow night. Thanks for joining us. Good night.