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Anwar al-Awlaki CIA Hit List, Bishop Eddie Long Lawsuits, Florida Overturns Gay Adoptions Ban; Never Asked, Never Told; Lohan and Hilton Legal Troubles; Mitt Romney Woos New Hampshire; Terry McMillan Getting to Happy

Aired September 25, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, up first here in the news Eastern hours, the Obama administration is citing national security to keep the case against a militant cleric out of the courts. Anwar al-Awlaki has been linked to al Qaeda terrorists, is believed to be hiding in Yemen. And U.S. officials believe that he is a significant operational figure with al Qaeda and that's why the U.S. confirms he is on a CIA and military hit list to be killed or captured. Al-Awlaki's father is suing to prevent the U.S. from going after him.

Now, the U.S. secretary of Defense, the director of National Intelligence and the director of the CIA want that lawsuit dismissed. Our Pentagon correspondent, Chris Lawrence, is watching the developments from Washington.

So, what are these national security concerns that all of these officials have.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka. You've got national security on one side and then some groups contend you've basic, the rights of an American on the other.

Here's what it boils down to. You mentioned why the U.S. government wants al-Awlaki, it's basically because they say he not only recruited the Nigerian man who tried to blow himself up on a Northwest Airlines plane that landed in Detroit on Christmas day, they say he also exchanged e-mails with Major Nidal Hasan, the chaplain who opened fire and killed numerous people there at Ft. Hood.

And they say al-Awlaki is not shy about saying that he is planning and plotting attacks on the United States, so they want him, they have targeted him. Well, his father makes the point that he is a U.S. citizen and the U.S. government does not have a right to target its own citizens for assassination without any sort of trial or due process or conviction, for that matter.

So several groups, including the ACLU, filed a suit against the government trying to sort of block this sort of action, get him taken off of this list. And what the government is basically saying is, look, we can't do that because their lawsuit would compel us to release certain classified information, intelligence and military information that could compromise our work overseas. Basically, say why in the world would the government ever tell someone who is a self- avowed terrorist how and where and why we go after terrorism around the world.

So, that's the crux of the argument. And now the government is saying because of this secret, state secret privilege, they shouldn't have to go along with this suit.

Now, the government has never come out and said, yes, they are targeting him for assassination, but take a look at what this official said. You can you sort of read between the lines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, WHITE HOUSE COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: Individuals shouldn't be able to hide behind their U.S. passport and U.S. citizenship, and if they present a threat and challenge to us, we need to be sure we're able to address that threat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAWRENCE: So again, these groups are saying it puts them in a very unique and uncomfortable position in order to ask, basically, the government's permission in order to try to represent his interests -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So, Chris, it's believed, U.S. officials believe he's in Yemen. "A," why do they believe he is hiding in Yemen and is there a particular activity besides recruitment that they believe he may be engaged in from there?

LAWRENCE: Well, the group that's based there, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula -- I was talking to a couple of senior defense officials just this week as the Yemen military started a major offensive against some of the militant groups there. And he said this is a big deal. He said he does not believe that al Qaeda there rises to the same threat level as al Qaeda does on the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

But he said they are very much a growing threat in what once was a group that maybe was only concerned with piracy and very localized issues, they now see starting to join with al Qaeda and starting to take more of a global approach. So, he said it's not on the level of Afghanistan-Pakistan yet, but he said it is very, very much a growing concern among military officials.

WHITFIELD: All right, Chris Lawrence, thanks so much from Washington. Appreciate that.

We're going to talk more about this from the legal point of view, civil rights attorney Avery Friedman is in Cleveland and in Las Vegas, criminal defense attorney, Richard Herman. We'll be seeing again later on in the hour to delve into some other cases, but we thought this was really pertinent to get your point of view on this.

Avery, let me begin with you, you know, how often is this state secret privilege actually used?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, it's been raised in a numbers of very important high-profile cases, Fredricka. This is especially significant because al-Awlaki is a very powerful cleric advocating jihad. What the plaintiff is arguing is that because of al-Awlaki is a citizen of the United States, you can't kill him without a hearing, a notice, a Fifth Amendment right under our bill of rights. It's a fascinating case.

But I think what's going to happen is that the federal court will never get to the issue of state secrets. Why? Simply because the suit brought by his father is going to be challenged as not having standing, meaning that he doesn't have the right to bring the lawsuit in the first place.

WHITFIELD: OK. So Richard, now I'm wondering, the Obama administration says going forward with this case would mean requiring "the disclosure of highly sensitive national security information." They don't want that to happen. So, what court would make this decision whether, indeed, the government is making a good argument to have this father's case dismissed?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A federal court, Fred, that's the answer. The federal court is going to dismiss this case based on standing, as Avery just said. Isn't it sort of a dangerous precedent, Fred? This guy is on a kill or capture list and his father is saying, look, let's stop at this point in time, let's get a little due process here.

Just because allegations are made about his criminal activity, don't we need to vet it? Don't we need to litigate this? Aren't we entitled to some discovery? Can't the government be wrong? What happens if they're wrong and they kill this guy?

I don't know these answers, but all I know is this is the United States and it seems contra to our values and our laws that a mere allegation can result in a, perhaps, kill list. A little scary.

WHITFIELD: Well, how long will this process last, I wonder? How long before the federal court determines whether, indeed, the Department of Defense has a good argument here, national security has a good argument here? Richard, you first.

HERMAN: I think this is going to move very quickly, Fred. I think maybe 60 to 90 days this is going to be disposed of.

WHITFIELD: Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I totally agree with you. This is high priority, deals with national security versus individual rights. Courts got to move right now.

WHITFIELD: But then in the meantime if it takes 30 to 60 days, that means in the meantime the government can continue with its pursuit against al-Awlaki if they find him in Yemen or elsewhere?

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right. FRIEDMAN: Yes, that may be another part of it, yes.

WHITFIELD: OK, very good. Well, we'll see you again, Avery, Richard, a little bit later we're going to talk about all things interesting under the -- on the docket including Lindsay Lohan back in jail, but out of jail again?

HERMAN: Who? Lindsay Lohan?

WHITFIELD: I know. An unfamiliar name, isn't it.

FRIEDMAN: Here we go again. Never ending.

WHITFIELD: Let's school each other on it.

FRIEDMAN: She's the gift that keeps on giving.

WHITFIELD: I know. All right, see you in a few.

All right, meantime, the sex scandal that has rocked an Atlanta mega church and its well-known pastor is growing. A fourth lawsuit have been filed against Bishop Eddie Long alleging that he coerced young men into sex. Long is expected to directly respond to the allegations or at least speak publicly, tomorrow.

CNN's Martin Savidge is covering the story and he joins us with the latest.

So, is he likely to directly talk about this incident or is it that he is just going to be in the public, he's going to carry on a sermon; he's going to pretend it didn't happen?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question. That's what everybody wants to know. What is Bishop Long going to say tomorrow? And clearly all eyes are going to be focused on the pulpit; they're all going to be looking at what the bishop of the New Birth Missionary Baptist Church, here in Atlanta, will have to say.

But, in advance of this very public meeting, were he's going to speak out to his congregation for the first against these allegations that have been made sexually about him rumors, the rumors have been flying, especially on the Internet and I want to read to you a quote now from Art Franklin, he is Bishop Eddie Long's spokesman.

Yesterday he said, "The rumor that Bishop long is stepping down," and there was that rumor on the Internet, "on Sunday is absolutely false. Bishop Eddie Long is and will continue to be the senior pastor of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church."

Then yesterday, Bishop Long held, we are told, a conference call with other members of the leadership that are part of the New Birth Church, and he is quoted, according to one of our affiliates that was listening in on that conversation, he says, "We will arise through this situation and go forward. We are moving forward." So there is a sense that tomorrow he will come out and speak against the allegations that have been made. But no one really knows until tomorrow comes.

We should point out yesterday we had the fourth lawsuit that came to the forefront which came from a 22-year-old Spencer LaGrant. He's in Charlotte, North Carolina. He's actually a member of what was a satellite parish, still is a satellite parish, of New Birth, out there. The allegations are very similar.

He says that after the age of 17, there was a relationship that began first on the telephone, but then developed into a personal sexual relationship between Bishop Long and himself. He went on several international trips. He was given a car, he was given tuition for college, he was given money. He was exposed to the remarkable life that Bishop Long has when he meets with political leaders and also with celebrity. And all of that, the civil suit maintains, is part of the coercion to get him into a sexual relationship.

WHITFIELD: You know, what's interesting, too, about that complaint is it's not just Eddie Long, there are other church members whose names are mentioned alleging that they were complicit by having the knowledge that inappropriate relations may have been taking place or possibly even helping to facilitate.

SAVIDGE: Right, and this is important to point out. This is, of course, the attorney that's driving all of this is B.J. Bernstein; she represents the young men who are now the plaintiffs in this particular case. And they have named these top church officials.

And part of this is, of course, to say, it isn't just Bishop Long, here. We are talking about other people, and as a result of that the pressure is placed upon the overall management of the church that they've got to be aware that they, too, could be held accountable. Not for the sexual relationship aspect, but because, as you point out, that they may have facilitated for this to happen.

WHITFIELD: So, right now this is civil suit.

SAVIDGE: Right.

WHITFIELD: One has to wonder how this shapes up, might this lead to a criminal offense?

SAVIDGE: Well, some people wonder. They say, well how come this is not a criminal investigation at this particular point? Well, the reason is because, as of now, as we understand, in the cases of all these young men, they were above the age of 16, which is the legal age of consent, here in the state of Georgia. So, that is why a criminal investigation has not been held.

Now, there are some questions as to whether federal laws were violated and supposedly federal investigators are looking into that, they won't comment on the investigation.

The other thing to point out, because it is a civil case, if it gets to a courtroom, the threshold, the legal bar is a little bit lower. It isn't the same as in a criminal case where you must prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. In this particular case it's going to be that you have to argue there is a reasonable cause here to settle for them.

WHITFIELD: And in the end, there were would be a settlement, that's part of the motivation, cash settlement.

SAVIDGE: Money.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks so much Martin Savidge, see you again throughout the day. We'll see you throughout the day and tomorrow, of course, we know you'll be there at New Birth as Pastor Long takes to the pulpit, there, for the first time in many days. All right, thanks very much.

All right, well, many politicians are looking toward the midterm elections. Others already thinking 2012.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: All right, that's a lot. Thanks so much, Reynolds. Appreciate that.

All right, the world's only eco super hero is about to mark a major milestone. Captain Planet is celebrating its 20th anniversary, and CNN founder, Ted Turner, who helped create the cartoon says fans of the show learned something they don't in other cartoons, how to become good environmental stewards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED TURNER, FOUNDER, CNN: With Captain Planet, we're teaching lessons with every episode.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Turner talks to CNN's Bonnie Schneider about the importance of the "Captain Planet" show and how it helps educate kids on current environmental challenges. That's coming up at 2:00 Eastern Time.

A Wisconsin prosecutor sent sexually charged text messages to women, victims, women crime victims and refuses calls to resign. We're talking about it with our legal guys.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. A look at our top stories, right now

. The Obama administration is citing national security to keep the case against a militant cleric out of the courts. Anwar al-Awlaki has been linked to al Qaeda terrorists and he's on a CIA and military hit list to be captured or killed, according to U.S. officials. Al- Awlaki's father is suing to prevent the U.S. from going after him. Government officials want that lawsuit dismissed saying it requires the U.S. to disclose highly classified information. And police in New Jersey are looking for a gunman who wounded five people at an off campus party. Students from Seton Hall University were at the party. There's no word yet on whether the victims or the suspects are students.

American astronaut Tracy Dyson and two cosmonauts are safely back on earth. They spent almost six months on the International Space Station. Their Soyuz spacecraft landed in Kazakhstan, this morning. Their return was delayed by a day after an undocking glitch.

All right, Florida's ban on gay adoptions is overturned. Now what? It's just one of the stories on our docket with our legal guys, right now. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor. And Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor and hopefully they're with us now. There they are. Ah-ha, like magic, poof, there you are.

Good to see you guys.

FRIEDMAN: All right. We missed you.

WHITFIELD: I missed you all tool.

HERMAN: It's been a while, Fred.

WHITFIELD: It has been a while. So, we know this 30-year-old ban in Florida has been overturned because it violates the state's constitution. So Avery, I wonder now, does this mean this takes effect immediately? Immediately gay couples can now adopt?

FRIEDMAN: Well, Governor Charlie Crist is saying immediately. This is only an appeals court decision, Fredricka. But, what the governor has decided is that this 30-year-old legislative action banning gay couples from adopting, as far as the governor is concerned, is over.

And it means that young families that are gay may adopt. So, the remaining question is, if that's true, does the case seek review in the Florida supreme court. And that's an answer we don't know.

WHITFIELD: Richard, how do you see it?

HERMAN: Well, I see it this way, Fred. In any case where children are involved, the primary issue is what is in the best interest of the child. And the Florida statute that banned gay adoptions, the court held had no rational basis, so now the disbanded with the statute, Florida was the only state of the 50 states in the United States that had this on the books still. So, welcome to a reality check, Florida. They can appeal all they want.

FRIEDMAN: Welcome to the 21st century, huh?

HERMAN: It's going to be how it is from now on in Florida. Yes.

WHITFIELD: OK, all right, and Charlie Crist saw it this way. He was very much in favor of it being overturned. This is what the governor had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV CHARLIE CHRIST (I), FLORIDA: It's a very good day for Florida. It's a great day for children. Children deserve a loving home to be in. And the opportunity for judges to make this call on a case-by-case basis with every adoption, I think is wonderful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, so he concurs with what you both have had to say and the outcome of this.

HERMAN: Especially in an election year he concurs with this, Fred, right.

WHITFIELD: All right, let's move on to --

FRIEDMAN: The utmost important decision. Yes.

WHITFIELD: Yes, it is a very significant one. Let's move on to what is taking place in Pennsylvania, a young girl apparently has on her cell phone some nude pictures of yourself. Why some kids are doing this is beyond me. Why do you want to do this? She didn't necessarily transport it and that's not what got her in trouble. But she was texting, there's a no texting policy in her school. School, you know, got a hold of the camera and then realized, wait a minute, there are these nude pictures. They then suspended her Richard. But then she turn around and was able to win a settlement. What happened here?

HERMAN: Right. There's a no cell phone policy in the school. And apparently she was at school, her phone went off, she went to answer it, a teacher saw that, he grabbed the phone, gave the phone to the principal or the administration. Then what happened was the principal or administration decided to go into her phone and take a look at her photos and who knows what else they looked at. But apparently on her phone she had a few pictures she had previously sent to her boyfriend. In any event, she brought a lawsuit against not only the school, and the school settled for an improper search and seizure, the school settled -- they didn't want a judicial determination on this one so they settled this case. But she's still suing the district attorney's office and that will be an interesting outcome.

WHITFIELD: Wow. On what grounds?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. That's going nowhere.

WHITFIELD: Same argument?

HERMAN: Illegal search and seizure, yes.

WHITFIELD: OK. All right, let's move onto Wisconsin and this district attorney who was acting inappropriately, speaking of texting and use of technology and all that stuff and conveying information. So, he allegedly, Ken Kratz, is now offering a sincere apology as a result of sending inappropriate text messages to a woman who was the victim of a crime in the middle of this case being prosecuted.

And so Richard, he has been asked to resign, step down. He says no. His apology is enough. Where does this case go from here?

HERMAN: It's unbelievable, Fred. This guy gets caught with a few texts to this woman and she discloses to everyone. They don't fire him, they keeps him on the job.

WHITFIELD: Yes, because she went to the police.

HERMAN: And then what happens is -- she went to the police and they produced it and said look, you're insane. These are horrible texts, what are you doing, but they don't fire him. Then what happens is like a tidal wave of texts show up. Now the guy's gone, he's not in practice right now of the state bar association is looking at him for grievance charges. This guy obviously needed a vacation. He's out of control. This is absolutely outrageous.

FRIEDMAN: And he's going to get one. Yes, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Oh, go ahead. Yes.

FRIEDMAN: What's going to happen is Monday morning at 11:00 there's a removal hearing. This guy calls himself, he's the prize. Hey, he's the booby prize. This guy has got to go. The bar association, as Richard said, has got to get into the picture. He's gone, absolutely.

WHITFIELD: Oh, OK. Well, I was going to say, you know, gentlemen, speaking of, you know, talking about being out of control, this Kentucky man is blaming caffeine for his you know, alleged actions, everything from drinking too much soda, to having too much Red Bull type of caffeinated drinks and not getting enough sleep and he says that's the reason why he stabbed his wife. And that he doesn't remember, so that caffeine also stole all his memory, because he doesn't remember exactly what happened. So, what's happening to him now -- Richard.

HERMAN: Yes, he woke up in the morning and there was an electrical cord around his wife's throat and he just didn't remember how that happened. And then all of a sudden we come up with this defense, of this caffeine defense, which is very creative, because anything that it alter someone's state of mind at the time a crime is allegedly committed, that gives a mitigation to the charges and does away with a murder conviction.

So, it's sort of like a temporary insanity. But those cases win like less than three percent of the time, Fred. It's a creative shot. It ain't going to fly in this case.

WHITFIELD: Oh, that's right, I misspoke, I said stab. Yes, he allegedly strangled -- tried to strangle his wife. All right, gentlemen, we're out of time on this one. But Avery and Richard, we're going to have you back, we're going to talk about Lindsay Lohan, what's going on with her and Paris Hilton, what's happening to her, too. She can't travel to Japan anymore. What happened there? All right, Avery --

HERMAN: How they going to do in Japan? How are they going to survive in Japan?

WHITFIELD: How are they going to survive in Japan? OK? Well, she, you know, had a public appearance, but not anymore. But, I don't know if the folks are going to be able to live without her. We'll talk about all that coming up. Avery, Richard, thanks so much. Appreciate that. We'll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. MARGARET WITT, MILITARY NURSE: I'm absolutely thrilled. I mean, all I've ever wanted to do was go back to my unit and do my job. So just for that chance, I'm really excited.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: That's Air Force veteran Major Margaret Witt reacting to a federal judge's Friday that found herself discharged under the "Don't ask, don't tell" unconstitutional. The judge ordered the Air Force to reinstate her to duty.

On Capitol Hill, Republicans have successfully blocked a bill that would allow the repeal of "Don't ask, don't tell." The legislative standoff is being closely watched by some current and former members of the U.S. military who were never asked and never revealed their sexual orientation for the sake of their career.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL ZABOROWSKI, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): My name is Dan Zaborowski. I joined the Air Force in '85. I was in the Air Force for 21 years, and I retired in 2006. What was different about me being in the Air Force was being gay and having a partner.

MARK BYRD, ZABOROWSKI'S PARTNER: See, it's kind of running there. You've got to make sure you don't get too much on your brush.

ZABOROWSKI: OK.

BYRD: My name is Mark Byrd. I'm originally from Ellisville, Mississippi. We've been together 19 years. Every time Dan's had orders for a permanent change of station -- PCS -- I've gone with him. And I was happy to do so because, you know, I love him and that's what a spouse or partner would do. When Dan had functions at work, I would not attend.

ZABOROWSKI: You know, if it was a gathering of friends, that would be easier than going to an Air Force function. Usually, Air Force functions, I would leave him at home. BYRD: If we were to slip up and someone -- if someone would have found out that we were gay, you know, that would -- that could have cost Dan his career.

ZABOROWSKI: I retired from the Air Force four years ago, and Mark was there.

BYRD: Before the ceremony, we went into a room and we sat down with his colonel.

ZABOROWSKI: I had asked my colonel if I could recognize Mark with a certificate, the way they recognize other spouses.

BYRD: And you could see the colonel, he got very uncomfortable, you know, and he's, like, Oh, we can't do that.

ZABOROWSKI: So I wasn't able to give Mark a certificate. But during my speech, I was able to present Mark with a shadowbox that represented the years that we were together while I was in the Air Force. And I recognized him as my best friend who had been behind me most of the time (INAUDIBLE) If the "Don't ask, don't tell" bill had passed, the 21 years I served will not have been in vain. Something good will have come out of the fact that, you know, maybe I had to conceal who I was, but you know, in the future, men and women will be able to serve openly and not conceal who they are. It would have been really great to have had seen this passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, hooked on drugs and alcohol, we're tracking the latest developments on Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan with our legal guys coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories right now. The FBI isn't saying what it was looking for when agents searched homes and an office in Minneapolis and Chicago. The agency says the raids were part of a terrorism investigation. Political and anti-war activists say they were the target and they called the raids harassment. No arrests were made, but activists say they were served subpoenas to appear before a grand jury.

And a party in Los Angeles turned violent. Police say at least a dozen people were shot at a house in the city early this morning. One person is dead. No word on a possible motive.

And more legal trouble for prominent Atlanta-area pastor Eddie Long. He now faces a fourth lawsuit. Four young men claim Long coerced them into sexual relationships. Bishop Long plans to speak about the allegations, perhaps, tomorrow. We know he at least is scheduled to take to the pulpit during his sermons tomorrow morning.

And what a whirlwind legal week it has been for Hollywood starlet Lindsay Lohan. Our legal guys are back -- Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney and law professor in Cleveland, and Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Vegas. We see the big O, the Bellagio, behind you.

So Richard, we know this is kind of a favorite stomping ground of -- or one of them, of Lindsay Lohan and a lot of other stars. But this time, the problem is in Hollywood for her. She goes to jail last night, violating probation, but then she's back out. She posted bail. What's next for her?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Fred, my take on it is this. The judge who allowed her to get out of the rehab facility based on the false representations of the UCLA Medical Center -- I don't know how incompetent they are -- but he relied on that, let her out of the rehab facility because he believed she did not have dependency issues, now was completely humiliated and embarrassed because she went ahead and violated two tests while she's on probation, a drug and an alcohol test. So he immediately throws her in prison.

He had no authority to do that. It was basically illegal, what he did. His (ph) lawyer tried to raise the issue. He wouldn't even hear his lawyer speak. So she ran, got an emergency appeal, and they let Lindsay out last night. These were misdemeanors.

WHITFIELD: Oh.

HERMAN: She's absolutely entitled to bail. The judge blew it. But like Yogi said, it's not over until it's over. In a couple weeks --

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Oh, man!

HERMAN: -- she's going to come --

WHITFIELD: What?

HERMAN: -- be in court for the probation violations, which she'll get convicted of -- 60 days in prison.

FRIEDMAN: Oh!

WHITFIELD: Really? So wait a minute. I'm confused, though. But if you have violated probation --

FRIEDMAN: Right. Not (INAUDIBLE)

WHITFIELD: -- why can't a judge -- but why can't a judge -- but she even admitted, I mean, publicly, you know -- you know, she wrote -- she tweeted about it, apparently. But if you've done that, then why can't a judge say, You've violated probation, I'm putting you back in jail. There is no bail. I mean, I'm not saying I'm advocating that, but that doesn't sound like an unusual thing for the judge to do, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I don't agree with Richard. I think -- I think Judge Elden Fox did the exact correct thing. Not only do you have a number of violations of law, for which she was put on probation, she's already violated probation. And then she's out, basically boasting and tweeting to people, I'm sitting here at Magnolia, which is a bar in West Hollywood, you know, knocking down Jack and Cokes. Holy smokes.

I'm horrified that another superior court judge in California granted the habeas. I don't think it was appropriate. She should remain in incarceration until October. I think the second judge blew it. I think Judge Fox, who put her in jail, did it exactly right. If she weren't a celebrity --

HERMAN: Fred --

FRIEDMAN: -- she'd be in jail right now.

WHITFIELD: Oh, so you do think she's getting preferential treatment.

HERMAN: Fred?

WHITFIELD: Richard?

HERMAN: Yes, yesterday's hearing was not the probation violation. Yesterday was a procedural hearing. The probation violation hearing is going to be in about three weeks.

WHITFIELD: OK.

HERMAN: And at that time, they're going to present evidence of her violation. She's going to lose on that. She's going to get 30 days for each violation. But how California courts work, she'll probably do maybe a day-and-a-half in prison --

WHITFIELD: Because of the whole overcrowding --

HERMAN: -- overcrowding, and they'll let her out.

FRIEDMAN: I don't know --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: What about rehab, then? What about -- what about turning that kind of jail sentence into strictly rehab, or -- you know, can you do -- I don't know, can they be concurrent, jail sentence, rehab at the same time, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: They have to be, Fredricka. I mean, this young woman is sick. And clearly, she continues to violate the law. She continues to do inappropriate things in terms of her legal responsibilities. I mean, there's no question but that some combination of incarceration and rehabilitation is absolutely necessary because if not, she's going to wind up dead one day. There's no doubt about it.

WHITFIELD: Wow. OK, well, you know, let's talk about Paris Hilton. She did, you know, plead guilty to a cocaine possession charge. But apparently, Japan has a big old rule, if there's any kind of, I guess, conviction or if you have any sort of record on drug- related offenses, you cannot be granted entry into the country, which was the case for her, Richard. She goes to Japan for a public appearance, and they stopped her there and said, No, you can't go any further. They held her for, like, six hours questioning, and then put her back on a plane. Bye-bye.

HERMAN: Well, you know, Fred, when you plead guilty to these crimes, you have to allocute in the court. So they made her admit in her allocution that, yes, I was in possession of cocaine. So now she goes to Japan. They take that allocution. They call the district attorney's office. And based on that, they have this public policy in Japan not to allow people like this into their country.

A lot of people in Japan are saying this is a politically motivated thing, that --

FRIEDMAN: Oh!

HERMAN: -- it's like a wink of the eye and they let people in all the time. I don't know, but I don't know how her fans are going to survive in Japan without her coming.

FRIEDMAN: No.

HERMAN: I just --

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN: You know, think of the organization -- think of the organization that backs up Paris Hilton. I mean, this is kind of a very well-known policy. What are these guys thinking?

WHITFIELD: Yes, I wonder what kind of research was done --

FRIEDMAN: I mean, the whole entourage --

WHITFIELD: -- before flying over there?

FRIEDMAN: None! None! I mean, they spent literally hundreds of thousands of dollars getting her to the Far East, and then, you know --

WHITFIELD: Oh, man!

FRIEDMAN: -- she sits in -- you know, held by the authorities. Then they ship her back. I mean, look, what are these people doing? The fact is that Japan has employed -- any kind of drug violation, you're not allowed in. Nothing inappropriate. You just really wonder what the organization is doing in planning these things. Unbelievable.

WHITFIELD: Yes, Tokyo has a couple really great airports, but I don't know. That's a long way to go just to, you know, check out duty-free and turn around and leave.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: All right --

(CROSSTALK)

WHITFIELD: Yes, exactly. Avery, Richard, good to see you all. Have a great weekend.

FRIEDMAN: Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: See you next time.

HERMAN: Take care.

WHITFIELD: All right, coming up, we're going to talk politics, the U.S. Senate race in Wisconsin heating up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, politicking in New Hampshire. On stage today, a one-time Republican presidential candidate who may be testing the waters again. Our political producer, Peter Hamby, is watching from Washington.

Good to see you. So we're talking about Mitt Romney. What's he up to? Is he sticking his toe in the water? Is he putting his whole foot in? Is he diving in? What's he doing?

PETER HAMBY, CNN POLITICAL PRODUCER: I'd say his whole foot is in. It might be an understatement to say he's testing the waters. Romney has to be considered the national front-runner for the Republican nomination, if you look at poll numbers. He's in New Hampshire. If you look at the early nominating calendar, if he does run for president, Iowa, he lost there last time, he has problems there among social conservatives. South Carolina, he lost there last time, same problems.

New Hampshire is a place where he owns property. He's known there because he's run for president and he has been the governor of Massachusetts. This is his beachhead. He has to win here in 2012 if he's going to find a path to the nomination. So yes, he's there today. He gave a big speech talking to the all the activists, volunteers, consultants, money men in New Hampshire that you need in your corner if you're going to win the nomination in that state.

WHITFIELD: And does he feel like he has that support, that there are many in his corner?

(CROSSTALK)

HAMBY: Yes, sure. If you talk to people there -- and voters in New Hampshire are renowned for wanting to touch the candidates, to meet them before they will, you know, cast their vote for you -- he's run through the gauntlet in New Hampshire before. So voters there, they do know him. The problem in New Hampshire is they're very fickle. He was the front-runner for the entire nomination there last time and lost to John McCain. You've seen that in the past in presidential battles. So being front-runner not the best place to be in New Hampshire, but he's a known commodity there and voters like that.

WHITFIELD: OK. Meantime, you spent a little time in Wisconsin. There's a pretty nasty or down-to-the-wire U.S. Senate race unfolding. Give me the lowdown on it, Russ Feingold up against Ron Johnson.

HAMBY: Right. I was up there all week. This is a race for independents in Wisconsin, a notoriously independent state. CNN has a new poll out today with Ron Johnson, the Republican millionaire plastics manufacturer, up by 6 points among likely voters against Feingold, who's a three-term senator. He's trying to race to the middle, trying to tell voters, I've broken with my party before. Obama was out there recently and Feingold did not appear with him. But Johnson is trying to tie Feingold to Washington in this really volatile political climate.

WHITFIELD: Peter Hamby, thanks so much. Good to see you.

HAMBY: Thanks, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, she brought a new meaning to the world "exhale." Now author Terry McMillan writes about "Getting to Happy." She shares some of her own life lessons.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: They're back, Savannah, Bernadine, Gloria and Robin, characters we first met almost two decades ago as they were "Waiting to Exhale." The author, Terry McMillan, has brought them back together in a new book and soon-to-be sequel movie. Their mission, "Getting to Happy."

I talked to the best-selling novelist about whether this story parallels her own life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: People have been waiting anxiously to know if there was going to be something, a sequel to "Waiting to Exhale." And so here we are "Getting to Happy." What happened in your life, or in these women's lives, that you felt like it was time to see what's happened 15 years after?

TERRY MCMILLAN, AUTHOR: Well, it wasn't what happened to them, it was due to what happened to me.

I had no intention of writing a sequel. After my divorce, I was really bitter and angry, and I started meeting a lot of other women in my age group, mid-40s to late 50s, who were just sad. And so in trying to explore what it might take for us to get back to happy, so to speak, I just came up with four different scenarios that I know a lot of women have to deal with. I realized that I had already told a story with four female protagonists, and then I realized that those women were the perfect candidates for this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WAITING TO EXHALE")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be 21 on my next birthday, so that makes me 20. And you are?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: When people read "Stella Got Her Groove Back," they thought that was your experience, but then you shared, you know, that deception. So it was interesting because you -- you talk about you were -- you were in a place. You were upset. Your husband wasn't what you thought he was. Why is it you made a decision, I'm going to do a continuation of these women's lives, as opposed to write specifically about what happened to me?

MCMILLAN: Even telling the story of Stella, only about -- about 95 percent of that did not happen. But I was compelled to tell the story. And I knew, to some extent, that nothing is promised. When he decided to tell me what he thought he was and I said, I know what thinking means -- and then, of course, all the other ugly stuff started coming out.

When you've been deceived, when you've been lied to in someone that you trusted, I don't care who they are -- when it happens, you don't care. You're just angry.

WHITFIELD: At what point did you say, You know what, I'm tired of being mad?

MCMILLAN: I was swearing a lot. I was grinding my teeth. And it was not who I was and it just started dawning on me how much energy it takes to be angry. I have since forgiven my ex-husband and we are actually friends now. I don't think you allow your past to destroy your present.

Even writing this book -- you know what? Hold up a minute here. I deserve to be happy. I deserve to have some joy in my life. And this story -- I wanted to try to dramatize what happens when you do and when you don't rely on someone else for all of your happiness.

WHITFIELD: It sounds as though you've sprinkled your life, your experiences, into all of these women's lives, in some capacity.

MCMILLAN: I take observations and personalize them through my characters. And it doesn't mean that it had to have happened to me, but when I write it through these characters, through their eyes and through their hearts, it feels like it did.

WHITFIELD: Is this likely to be a movie?

MCMILLAN: Well, 20th Century Fox bought the movie rights about five months ago, before it was actually a book. And before you ask, three of the four women seem to be very, very interested in reprising their roles. And we are praying and hoping that Whitney will, too.

WHITFIELD: So to kind of summarize with these women -- Savannah, you know, she's kind of the first character you tackled. What's the breaking point for Savannah? How does she get to this point on this journey of getting to happy?

MCMILLAN: She just discovered something about his behavior that I think sort of angered her, not anything that was as deep as finding out that your husband is gay. And she just decides to take a risk on herself and take a risk on even going solo. But she has not, nor have I, given up on love or men.

WHITFIELD: Gloria?

MCMILLAN: Gloria just -- she has experienced a different kind of a loss that I don't want to say. She has to go through her own form of grief and just start to begin to heal her life.

WHITFIELD: And Bernadine.

MCMILLAN: She has forgiven her first ex-husband for the way he treated her. They are actually friends in this story. But Bernadine has had an experience that has made her bitter, and so she has to learn a lot of things in terms of forgiving herself and forgiving other people.

WHITFIELD: And Robin?

MCMILLAN: Robin tried to be a good single parent. And her attitude is that you should look for a man the same way you do a good pair of black pumps, keep trying them on until you find the one that fits.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: And so these women are now breathing.

MCMILLAN: I would like to think they are, yes.

WHITFIELD: Not just exhaling, but they're breathing.

MCMILLAN: No because you can exhale more than once.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Exhale and breathe -- it's kind of a little pattern. Next week, as my face-to-face with Terry McMillan continues, her advice to women on celebrating that next birthday, not agonizing over it, but instead being happy about getting more seasoned. That's next Saturday, October 2nd, in this hour.

And stay with us this afternoon in the 2:00 Eastern Hour, seven ways to save money around your house.

At 3:00 p.m. Eastern Time, what do you do when your prescriptions are pulled off the market?

And at 4:00 Eastern Time, there were changes with health care nationally this week. How did this impact your current health care insurance? We have some answers for you.

I'm Fredericka Whitfield. "YOUR $$$$$" starts right now.