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Twenty-One Chilean Miners Rescued; California to Vote on Legalization of Marijuana; Midterm Elections Heating Up
Aired October 13, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: It's a little before the top of the hour.
Let me show you. What you're looking at there is a close-up shot provided to us by the Chilean government of the mechanism, the winch mechanism that pulls that -- that capsule up. Minor number 20 is in that capsule right now. And that is being pulled to the surface. That is going to happen any moment now, which means there will be 13 more guys to be rescued, plus the five rescuers who are underneath right now.
We did hear the Chilean mining minister -- that's the gentleman in the white hat on the left -- saying about an hour ago he's going to send a sixth rescuer down there at some point.
But it does look like things are moving very, very smoothly down there.
Don Lemon is going to take over for me in just a couple of minutes.
Don, you're going to bring out -- I mean, I just -- I -- I'm rarely this fascinated by a story. And what a privilege to cover a story that has a great ending to it.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's amazing.
And I'm getting comments from viewers that are saying, oh, I'm watching CNN, and every time they bring someone up, one of these guys up --
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: -- I just well up with tears. And, at some point, it --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I do, too.
LEMON: It doesn't get -- it doesn't get old.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: Each time is like the first time.
And you saw the second guy, you know, who came up and gave the cheers --
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: -- and what-have-yous.
But it's amazing. And it is a privilege to watch this. We provide a service for our viewers every single day. And this is definitely a service to be able to provide not only to the country, but to the world, to be able to see this good news.
And, you know, Ali, what I said this morning in the meeting, we complain about so much in this country.
VELSHI: Right.
LEMON: Oh, you know, the price of gas --
VELSHI: This is a good lesson to remember.
LEMON: -- and, oh, everybody --
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: -- is on antidepressants.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: I don't remember one time that these guys asked for an antidepressant --
VELSHI: Yes. Yes.
LEMON: -- or an anxiety drug, and they were down there --
VELSHI: They --
LEMON: -- for days.
VELSHI: They should be a lesson to us all. You're going to watch the next one coming up.
LEMON: Let me -- before you go --
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: -- think about this.
So, it's August 5, right? We didn't know it happened, because, no --
VELSHI: No.
LEMON: -- it happened. It was in Chile August 5. They're down there. They don't even know if -- if anyone believes they're alive --
VELSHI: Right. LEMON: -- if anyone is coming to get them, not for two weeks. And then the shift supervisor says, you better stretch this out, and they hear people coming for them. They don't know.
VELSHI: Yes.
LEMON: So, can you have imagine, for two whole weeks, not knowing, and then, all of a sudden, you get the note? But you still don't know. It could be Christmas.
VELSHI: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Imagine the drama --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: And there's number 20 right there --
LEMON: Unbelievable.
VELSHI: -- the 20th guy coming --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: There is number 20 there. That is Dario Antonio Segovia Rojas. He is 48 years old. He is coming up now, been in there 69 days.
Let's listen to a bit of the applause here --
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
LEMON: -- and a bit of the natural sound of this really joyous occasion.
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON: Then we will get right back. Stand by. Take a listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(SHOUTING)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(WHISTLING)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
LEMON: You're watching miner number 20 come up right now. His name is Dario Antonio --
(SHOUTING)
LEMON: I don't want to interrupt this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Chi-chi-chi-le-le-le.
(SHOUTING)
(APPLAUSE)
(WHISTLING)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Thank you for everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We feel really proud of what you did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
LEMON: To listen -- about to interrupt there and talk over that.
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON: But, listen, you can't write this.
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON: It's amazing.
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON: And many of the guys who have been coming up have been showing that much spirit, coming out of there and cheering the -- the rescuers on and the people who are watching.
And, again, this is number 20. His name is Dario Antonio Segovia Rojas, known as Dario Segovia, 48 years old.
(APPLAUSE)
LEMON: Here's the interesting thing about him. He's a carrier pigeon handler, second generation of his family really to be trapped in a mine, because his father, who was once trapped in a mine for a week, began taking him down into the mines when Rojas was just 8 years old.
And he -- his favorite soccer -- just a little bit about him. His favorite Chilean soccer team is Colo-Colo. So, anyway, he is number 20 to come up.
Number 21 -- that's going to come up during our hours -- of course, has been a very interesting person. Besides probably the foreman, he's been the one who has been talked about the most. And this is the one, self-proclaimed, of course, who has two families. He has a wife and he has a mistress.
And, reportedly, he asked his wife and his mistress to be there to greet him, and the wife said no way. He's coming up next. That should happen within our hours, within just a few minutes.
And we -- we will bring that to you.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta. You're watching our coverage of rescuing the miners in Chile. It is the big story that everyone is watching today. Over the next two hours, we're going to bring you each rescue as it happens live here on CNN.
So, so far, we have seen 20 men pulled from the gold and copper mine where they have been trapped since part of that mine collapsed 69 days ago, remember, 69 days ago.
I want you to watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, listen, this is Mario Sepulveda right after he was pulled from the mine overnight. And you saw number 20 come up, nothing like what super Mario did. He has become a spokesman for miners. I want you to check out how he led a crowd in cheer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES: Chile!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(WHISTLING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, listen, as I said, we're going to be watching this over the next two hours here on CNN.
And I want to go to someone who knows a lot about this -- knows a lot about this. His name is Stanley Stewart. Stanley survived the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion and he was trapped underground for a while. And he has been sharing his experience with us. He shared it with Larry King last night.
I want to welcome Stanley to our broadcast.
Stanley, at the top of the hour here, you're watching number 20 being pulled up. Does this bring back anything for you?
STANLEY STEWART, SURVIVOR OF UPPER BIG BRANCH MINE COLLAPSE: Well, yes, Don.
Every -- every one I see brought up, I -- I just have a flood of cold chills over my whole body. And I'm elated that these men are being rescued. It's -- it's -- astounding. I know, the first 16 or 17 days, they had to have a feeling of hopelessness. And for them to be able to see the light of day again, it's -- it's just -- it's just great.
LEMON: Stanley, can you even put into words that feeling of hopelessness or wondering if you're going to be rescued, if anyone is going to come get you?
STEWART: Well, me, myself, I have a license plate on my car. And I have lived it my whole life. It says, "Just keep pounding."
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: And what I mean by that is, no matter what, no matter how bad things are, if you just keep pounding and never quit and never give up, something good will happen.
And I feel like these miners lived by that. And, by golly, it's paying off.
LEMON: Hmm.
Now, you know, that was tough, but a tougher part, or maybe an equally-as-tough part, is probably going to come up for these guys. And that's the reality -- back to reality, shall we say.
What are they looking forward to now? What's going to happen with them now if -- in your experience, Stanley?
STEWART: Yes.
I feel like, after the initial joy of them surviving and everything calms down, they're going to have some issues they need to deal with. They will need to seek help, because they will have flashbacks. They will have nightmares. And they -- they will recall that they nearly died. And -- and they -- they will have to deal with that.
And it will be hard for them to deal with it on their own. So -- so, they will need help. I know I still have problems myself. And I feel like these guys will, too.
LEMON: You know the old saying not a day goes by. Is that true for you?
STEWART: Right. Yes, not a day goes by. I -- I -- I still relive that day. Part of me is still up on the -- the best part of me is still up on that mountain. And -- and I want it -- I want me back. And I'm just glad these guys haven't had to suffer any deaths in this mining accident, and it's coming out very well thus far. And -- but they will still have problems to deal with.
LEMON: Hey, Stanley, explain that to me. And this is -- you know, I know it's a very personal moment for you, and it's a very personal reaction and feeling.
But this may be just the time for the whole world to find out what people like you deal with who have to do this sort of work. What do you mean by the best of you is left up on that mountain and you want the best of you back?
STEWART: I'm not me anymore.
I -- I don't enjoy everything I have always enjoyed my whole life. I -- I just haven't been able to find the enjoyment. And that day happened. We got the initial nine out. Seven of them didn't make it. I worked on those guys, and I felt myself separate from my body, and I never came back to it.
And I know I was having a very hard time yesterday evening. And I just cried and told my wife, "I want me back."
And -- and that's -- that's what I want. And it's -- it's -- it's a daily thing. And I -- I just hope and pray that I will come back some day.
LEMON: Stanley, you know, those -- those are really emotional and amazing words. And I think part of what you're describing may be survivor's guilt: Why did I survive and others die?
Do you feel that?
STEWART: I feel a little bit of that.
And, plus, I had some very, very dear friends. And -- and -- and friend is not the word for these guys. It -- it -- it goes beyond being friends with these men, worked with them every day for years. And I miss them. I dream about them. I dream of being in that mine. I dream of seeing those guys reaching out for some help.
And -- and -- and I can't help them. But, you know, it's -- I'm trying to deal with it.
LEMON: How you doing?
STEWART: Well, here lately, I'm not doing very well. It's like an emotional -- emotional roller-coaster ride.
The first initial weeks, it was like I was in shock. All I did was go to funerals. And then, through the last, middle months of it, I would be up and down. I would have a day or two, I would say, hey, I feel pretty normal. And then, all of a sudden, it would be like a cloud hovering down on me. And, when it would hit me, I would just -- I would just hit a low again. And now, the last few weeks, my roller coaster has been stuck on the bottom.
LEMON: Hmm. Post-traumatic stress disorder, just like a war zone.
STEWART: It felt like a war zone up there that day, Don. It was -- it was utter chaos. And I don't want to go into the details, but that's what it was like.
LEMON: These -- is it fair, Stanley, to be -- to call the guys that you were with and these guys a band of brothers? And would it be fair to say that you and probably them have a bond that you may not even be able to form with your own family?
STEWART: Yes, sir, absolutely, 100 percent. Miners have that bond. They know things about each other that their family doesn't know. And they share it all. And they are -- play practical jokes on each other every day.
It's a -- a -- kind of a miserable environment you have to work on -- or in. So, we just try to make it fun. We have a sense of humor that cannot be matched. Some of the humor goes on in a coal mine would -- would make millions in the outside world.
And, yes, any miner anywhere in the world has that bond with other miners that he doesn't even know. And like I -- I have said before, if I hear of a miner being killed or -- or anything of that nature, a piece of my heart goes out to them, if I have no idea who they even are, because I know what they have to deal with every day and what they have to work in and what they do.
And, so, yes, it hurts any time I hear of any coal miner being hurt or killed.
LEMON: So, Stanley, listen, if you can take us through the moments when you were trapped, and possibly when these 33 men were trapped, and you -- you think -- and I'm sure this has to run through your head, obviously -- this may be the last moments of my life, do you share things with the guys around you?
Do you say, you know, I did something really bad or I did something really wrong, or I want to share this, I want to get this off my conscience? Do you have those, for lack of a better term, come-to-Jesus moments with the people around you?
STEWART: OK.
I wasn't actually trapped, Don. I was inside the mine when it exploded, and I was able to run and was able to get out without being trapped for any length of time.
LEMON: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
STEWART: But, as far as sharing things, yes. I'm sure -- I'm sure, if -- in the situation these guys was in, I'm sure they shared a lot.
And it would be unimaginable, the things. And I'm -- I'm sure they tried to make light of it and humor, you know, to keep -- keep their sanity. But, yes, a miner would -- would share many things.
LEMON: What flashes in front of you? Because these guys said, for a while, that the dust, because of the collapse, they couldn't see for a long time. And you said you were able to -- to run out.
There was an explosion, though, in your case. So, in those last moments, I'm sure running through your head is, first of all, I need to get out of here, but, oh, my gosh, what in the world is going on?
STEWART: Yes, sir.
When -- when the mine exploded -- and, luckily for me, we were just starting our shift. We weren't very far underground. And the force of the explosion, I felt like it was going to lift me off my feet and blow me out of the mine, and it exploded several miles from where I was at.
But it's -- once I got out, I knew what had happened. And I looked back in there, and I knew I had a lot of buddies in there, because that's where we were on our way to relieve them fellows. And I knew where they were, and I thought, oh, my God, I got a lot of friends in there. And I -- I stood outside, and I watched -- I would watch the portal and I would watch my clock. I knew how long it took to get out.
And I only hoped that they would just somehow emerge. And I watched and watched, and -- and they never came.
LEMON: Hmm.
STEWART: And I knew that wasn't -- wasn't good.
LEMON: Stanley Stewart, we appreciate your bravery for coming on and sharing your story with us and helping us through this coverage, OK?
And we wish you the absolute very best. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart, OK?
Thank you, sir.
Stanley Stewart survived the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion. That was back in April, April 5 of this year.
And we are watching those live pictures now coming from this mine in Chile, where there are still a number of men who are underground now. They have brought 20 of those men up. We're waiting for number 21.
And we have -- you have witnessed the emotion here, the anticipation, the drama, all of it, on CNN. And we're going to continue with that right after the break, and we're going to take you live to Copiapo, Chile, and we're going to get to our -- our Karl Penhaul, who is on the ground, and he's going to pick up the coverage from there.
We're back in just moments here on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. You're watching our continuing coverage here on CNN of the rescue of those miners in Chile.
Look. The capsule is going down. You see it going into the cave now. Just about -- let's see -- 17, 18 minutes ago, they brought up miner number 20. His name is Dario Segovia, number 20. And he is really a legacy, as they say, when it comes to mining.
He was trapped. His dad was trapped years ago. His dad was a miner. His dad brought him into the mines as young as 18 years old. And so he is up and safe now. And it was a very emotional reunion with his family.
Now we're waiting on miner number 21. And this is all part of the story. This isn't -- we're not being salacious about this, but this has been reported. This is the miner who has self-professed has had -- he has two families. He has a wife and a mistress.
And, reportedly, according to newspapers and other interviews, the wife said she's not -- she's not planning on being there, at least, when he comes up. We're talking about Yonni Barrios Rojas. He's 50 years old. His fellow miners call him Dr. House, after the American TV show, which is popular in Chile.
And he's been working in the mines since 1985, married, with no children, but, again, as he has said himself, he has a mistress. And he invited the mistress and the wife to be there with him. He sent it up through a note.
That's just part of the news. So, he will -- he will be up probably in about 20 minutes here on CNN. And we're wondering, as you are, who is going to be there for him when he comes out of this mine that he has been there for, what, 69 days now.
Live pictures there, you see from underground as they load him into that chamber.
Let's get to the ground now.
CNN's Karl Penhaul joining us from Copiapo, Chile.
Karl, every single miner who comes up, the emotion is just as strong as the first one.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
And I think, you know, now we're going to be looking in the next few moments at -- at Yonni Barrios coming up. And I think he has a special place for a lot of these families here in Camp Hope, where the families have camping out.
Yes, we have all heard the salacious stories about his wife and his girlfriend. That said, talking to those close to his family, they say he left his wife some time ago, and -- and moved in with his mistress.
But, really, what the families here are grateful for is the fact that Yonni Barrios had paramedics training. He was the explosive expert on that shift on August the 5th, the ship that got trapped in there, but he also had paramedic training.
So, that -- when the rescuers finally found that shift alive 17 days later, he was nominated as the doctor in the mine. And that really has led his companions, as you mentioned, to call him, jokingly, in the videos that they have sent up Dr. House, after the U.S. TV series.
But it is he that has helped carry out the blood tests and the urine tests. He's checked day in and day out the vital signs. He's also been in charge of the tape measure to make sure that the burliest miners slim down fast enough and enough so that they can fit inside the Phoenix 2 rescue capsule.
And we can see, because things have gone off without a hitch so far today, that he has done a great job. We have seen those miners coming up in what seemed to be an amazing state of health. And that a lot of that is all down to Chile's own Dr. House, Yonni Barrios.
The health minister said, we will have to get him an express doctor's certificate. Others have echoed that feeling. But, of course, like a lot of these miners, you know, these people aren't perfect. And perhaps that's really where the story lies. These were relatively unremarkable men that have been called on to do absolutely remarkable things.
And one of those was Yonni Barrios. As you say, though, when he gets back up to the surface, he could face a little bit of hot water, depending on how his wife and mistress care to take the news.
In fact, talking to a mining consultant who has had contact with the miners, he said, well, Yonni Barrios would have liked to have been up last, and Yonni Barrios in fact would have liked to have gone out the back door, if that had been possible, Don.
LEMON: And, you know, Karl, and I think you're exactly right. No one is perfect. No one is perfect.
And, you know, to -- I think what's even more important here is that this man, that Yonni saved so many lives with the work that he did, especially with the medical work and what have you.
So, it's -- that's an interesting part of the story, but it's certainly not Yonni Barrios' entire story.
If you can, take us to what's behind you there, Karl, at Camp Hope, as they have been calling it, and tell us what's going on. As we understand, we have been talking about the women got their hair done. They -- they got makeup yesterday. And I'm sure the families are very excited about their -- the ones who are not up yet.
Take us to -- inside of Camp Hope, what's happening behind you.
PENHAUL: Yes.
Let me just stand out of the way, and maybe we can pan around a little bit and -- and show you what is in Camp Hope and what is left of Camp Hope.
You might be able to see groups of people down towards the lower end. That is where some of the families are still congregating as they wait for their loved ones still to emerge.
But it strikes me, as well, you know, now, number 21, we have got Yonni Barrios coming up. The number one man out of the hole, Florencio Avalos, and I wouldn't say that the name doesn't matter, but it really doesn't matter what family these men come from, because, on August the 5th, when that mine collapsed, 33 individual families made their way to the San Jose gold and copper mine, all looking for news on their loved ones.
And 33 families stood here and said, we're not leaving until you give us our husbands, our brothers, our loved ones, dead or alive. And during the time that they have been here, more than two months now, those 33 families have become one single family.
It's become one single family with 33 sons. And, so, son number 21 is coming back to this family here in Camp Hope. It doesn't matter what individual family he belongs to. But, of course, Yonni, like all the others, has his own individual story to tell as well -- Don.
LEMON: Karl Penhaul, great reporting. We appreciate it. Thank you, Karl. Stand by, because, no doubt, we will be coming back as this continues here on CNN.
And we want to get more of a perspective about exactly what is going on, not only inside the mine, but above the mine, where they are rescuing these people, and what's going to be done afterwards, not only in that country, but in this country as well. Could be changes.
We're going to talk to Davitt McAteer. He led the Mine Safety and Health Administration under President Bill Clinton. He is going to join us right after this break.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back to our coverage live. We're waiting for miner number 21 to come up. And that should happen any time soon. We saw that capsule down in the cavern just a short time ago.
And they are preparing to load him in there and then bring him back up. And I think you see the wheel moving there. I think it's coming back up. So, we're going to have that live for you.
Listen, let's learn more about not only the health and safety of these men physically, but also mentally as well.
Davitt McAteer led the Mine Safety and Health Administration under President Bill Clinton. He joins us now by telephone from Cabin Creek, West Virginia.
And right here standing in front of me in Atlanta, clinical psychologist Dr. Erik Fisher, Dr. E., as we have been calling him here on the air.
And we appreciate you joining us. I'm going to talk to you in a bit about Mr. Stewart and his emotional state, a very emotional interview, and what we can do.
DR. ERIK FISHER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Right.
LEMON: I want to get to Mr. McAteer, though, first.
As you have been watching this, what has been going through your head about improving mining safety, so that this doesn't happen again?
J. DAVITT MCATEER, FORMER MINE SAFETY AND HEALTH ADMINISTRATION DIRECTOR: Well, I think, Don, what's important about this lesson is the fact that we -- the experience here suggests that we in fact can get to miners who are trapped underground if we can keep them alive.
The experience here in this country, unfortunately, has been, with the last number of disasters, is that we haven't been able to get there quickly.
I think that, as a result of Sago and as a result of others, there's been an improvement in the ability to get to folks underground quicker, and much more thought has been given to it, that I'm very proud that two of the companies that are working down here in Chile are from the United States and drilling -- doing the drilling are there.
So, we need to apply those lessons in the United States. We need to apply them, and before accidents occur, and we need to apply them in a preventive kind of way, rather than a reactive way.
LEMON: But it has to -- Mr. McAteer, pardon the interruption -- it has to break your heart and provide more -- it makes -- it makes you want to provide more expediency and it gives more urgency to mine safety when you hear -- when you see these men coming up and when you hear from Stanley Stewart, who survived the Upper Big Branch explosion.
MCATEER: Absolutely. There's no question about it.
There's -- you know, this is the 21st century. We ought to have technology that's able to get to people and bring them out. But, before that, we have to have technology that prevents disasters from occurring. And -- and we need to be -- be working very diligently to try to do that.
We're still working on the investigation of the Upper Big Branch Mine disaster.
LEMON: Mm-hmm.
MCATEER: But we need to learn these lessons and learn them very, very well, and learn them at every mine in the country. And it's terribly important for us to do that, so that we don't have to repeat this kind of accident and we don't have to repeat the -- which has -- is having a positive outcome -- but we don't have to repeat the accident at Upper Big Branch.
LEMON: Yes.
Dr. -- Dr. E., Erik Fisher, your book is called "The Art of Managing Everyday Conflict."
This is -- by far, though, this is not an everyday conflict.
DR. ERIK A. FISHER, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No, it's not.
LEMON: When you heard Stanley Stewart and came into the studio and went, oh, my gosh. Its' still right here. He relives it every day.
FISHER: Right. There's real issues of survival guilt that he has clearly that he was one of the ones that made it out or the one that made it out.
LEMON: And these guys will have the same thing or similar.
FISHER: Luckily, nobody was lost in this. But it still could remain to be seen. Again, you also the long term health issues of the black lung or any other thing that's going on with them health-wise that could still evolve. And there are some people -- fungal issues and things like that that have to be considered here.
So it definitely is an issue. When somebody survives and others don't or somebody else doesn't, it can definitely bring a lot of guilt which can compound the issues of post traumatic stress, or depression and anxiety.
LEMON: When he relives it over and over, that's in his waking hours. But nightmares -- in your sleep, I'm trapped in a mine. I'm sure that's going to happen. You see the wives who wake up husbands who have gone to war and they're reliving the battle over and over in their heads. You think these guys no doubt some of them will do that.
FISHER: Definitely. Probably most of them. The brain processes information in our sleep. What we spend waking time doing is deal with the present and handle that. And all this energy we spend in trying to deal with now we're also spending energy in trying to keep all this stuff in the background that we wish we could throw away in our lives. That's why the best thing they need to do is process it and realize nightmares are our unconsciousness's way of letting us know what we have to working on.
LEMON: As we watch this and wait for the 21st miner to be brought up, what struck me, as I have been saying to everyone, this is really a lesson, especially to Americans where we talk about overconsumption and all hat whine about every single thing. Not one person asked for an antidepressant or anti-anxiety drug. Everyone is happy to be with their families?
Is this live? Here he is. Thank you, Mr. McAteer and thank you, Dr. E. We're going to go live to the mine in Copiapo, Chile, and we're going to look at miner number 21 coming up. His name is Johny Barrios Rojas, 50 years old. He is the one who is the chief paramedic for the group due to his previous nursing experience. That's what he served as.
His mother had diabetes as a child and he was tasked with her care. So the people who were suffering with diabetes, he helped them out. His fellow miners, as we've been saying, are calling him "Dr. House" after the American TV show, which is also popular in Chile.
And he has been in the mines -- working in the mines since 1985, married with no children. And again, this is the self-professed two- families person. So two people are waiting for him? We're going to listen to his rescue.
(APPLAUSE)
CROWD: Chile! Chile! Chile!
LEMON: This is miner number 20, Johny Barrios Rojas. Number 21 I should say, 50 years old, as you are seeing there. He served as the chief paramedic.
Interesting, in full transparency on Chilean television, she was fonted as we say here, or when they identified her through writing on the screen and identified the woman who met him as spouse. So we're working to confirm whether or not it was his wife or it is his mistress.
But, again, this is all part of the story. His wife reportedly said that she would not be there because he wanted the mistress to be there as well. So we're working to see -- it could be his wife. It could be his mistress.
But here's the interesting thing. You could hear her wailing in the background. It's definitely someone who cares for him and that's all that matters at this point.
I have to read this e-mail from a friend. I thank you for sending this. Don says, "Who cares about him leaving his wife and moving in with a girlfriend? The story is the story of hope and inspiration of the 33 being trapped and alive and coming home after two months." Doctor, do you agree with that? FISHER: Yes. I think we have to focus on the issue that this person has come out alive. But the other issue we need to look at is imagine being the wife who has had this situation that her husband had this -- that's another trauma for her to look at.
So again, the level of different ways people are going to perceive this and what they're going to do with it is going to determine sometimes the rest of their life.
LEMON: And you can understand why she doesn't want to be there. Imagine the tug in your heart. I want to be there because I love this person and glad he's alive, but also I don't want to be there with the other woman. You can definitely understand the tug-of-war that is going on there.
FISHER: I also understand in Chile divorce is a difficult thing to accomplish. So sometimes families will stay -- spouses will stay married but still might have other relationships outside of the relationship that are known. But in some ways it's, I think, a financial and a religious issue that comes up in terms of the openness of divorce and why some couples stay married.
LEMON: Dr. E, thank you. The book is called "The Art of Managing Everyday Conflict," a good read. I'm going to read it. Thank you very much.
FISHER: Thank you.
LEMON: Appreciate it. And also Donnie McAteer, we appreciate your expertise as well.
Number 21 just came up. We're waiting for number 22 now. Make sure you stay with continuing live coverage here on CNN of the Chilean miners rescue. Very emotional, and we expect more emotion throughout the day. We're back in a moment with not only that, but just two weeks left until the midterm elections and we will be following that for you. some developing news there as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Just 20 days from today Americans will cast their votes in the midterm elections. And the very control of Congress may be at stake here.
One of the most watched contests is in the Senate race in Delaware. You know we have been following it. You have been watching it. And tonight CNN will carry the Delaware Senate debate between Republican candidate Christine O'Donnell and her democratic opponent -- quick, what's his name? Not many know. His name is Chris Coons.
While O'Donnell has all of the buzz with the tea party backing and her upset primary win and "I am not a witch" political ad, it is her challenger that may take over Joe Biden's old seat. A Monmouth University poll has Coons leading by 19 percentage points. The poll released on Tuesday shows Coons, the Democratic Newcastle County executive leading 57 to 38 among likely voters. And just what is dragging down o doesn't in the polls? Her qualifications or rather the fact that likely voters don't feel she's qualified? The same poll say that while 64 percent of likely voters believe that Coons is qualified to be a senator, only 35 percent said that O'Donnell is.
So for O'Donnell tonight's debate is a big opportunity to convince the state of Delaware otherwise that she is indeed qualified to be a senator.
Now, we're going to preview the debate next hour with CNN's Gloria Borger, part of "The Best Political Team on Television," of course, but don't forget tonight to join Wolf Blitzer and the best political team on television for that special debate. Our special coverage will start 7:30 p.m. eastern here on CNN.
In the meantime, that story is developing. We want to get to our breaking news now. It is happening in Chile and the whole world is watching. We're standing by for the next rescue, the next bit of good news from that mine in Chile. When that happens we're going to bring it to you live.
But up next here on CNN, the marijuana debate -- legalize it? Leave the laws alone? And why should you care if you don't mo don't smoke pot? We'll dive into those issues with our very own Kathleen Parker, one half of "PARKER/SPITZER." She's a co-host, of course, and she's going to join us next. See you on the other side of the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: There are 21 of them that are back to the surface. Now, look at those emotional reunions that are happening live at that mine in Chile. Can you imagine not seeing your loved one for almost two months and not knowing in the beginning if they were dead or alive and probably hoping for the best and assuming the worst?
And then look what it's culminated into. All of them so far alive and safe and it appears to be in fairly good health. We're going to continue to follow this developing story, 21 of them now out and 12 more to go. And we'll carry it live here on CNN. You won't miss a single one of them come out of that mine, trust me.
Let's move on and talk about the midterm elections here, because there you see marijuana is on the ballot. In less than three weeks California voters could light the fuse for an explosive change in the way America deals with marijuana, pot, weed we call it.
An initiative on the state's November ballot would legalize the possession and sale of pot in limited amounts for anyone at least 21 years old. While its passage is by no means certain supporters say the state is poised for a, quote, "watershed moment." California could become the first state to legalize pot for recreational use.
Fourteen years ago California approved the use for medical marijuana, and if the initiative is approved it could be a better cash cow for the cash-strapped state. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MCPHERSON, OAKLAND REVENUE AND TAX ADMINISTRATOR: The medicinal side right now is about 20 percent of total business out there. If the adult usage is 80 percent of that, that's about $80 million. So there's potential for significant financial growing for the city and for this community.
ARTURO SANCHEZ, SPECIAL BUSINESS PERMIT DIVISION: I do think that we have the right pieces in place to allow us to be a barrier- breaking city. We're in the pole position, I can say. We're ahead of the pack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, so supporters add that banning marijuana has fueled the increasingly brutal drug trade. That's been debated. But opponents, which include some law enforcement groups, argue against making California a free-smoking state. They say it will lead to more fatalities when impaired drivers get behind the wheel.
OK, so why don't we talk to Kathleen Parker, because in her column last year for "The Washington Post" she wrote -- she's the co- host of CNN's "PARKER/SPITZER." she wrote in 1929 the Women's Organization for National Prohibition Reform led the movement to ends alcohol prohibition. Might women lead the next in revolution in personal autonomy? Keep those flutes and snifters and bongs -- question mark -- handy."
Kathleen Parker joins me from New York. Hi Kathleen, and welcome to CNN. Good to talk to you have finally on the air.
KATHLEEN PARKER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST, CO-HOST, "PARKER/SPITZER": Thank you, Don. Nice to be here.
LEMON: What did you mean by that?
PARKER: So I think that was in response -- actually I was commenting on a group of mothers, women who had organized to push forward laws to at least decriminalize if not legalize marijuana. I think that was the tie-in.
But I've written about this several times through the years. I don't really have a dog in this fight, personally. I don't smoke pot and don't really want to, don't expect to if it becomes legal, and I don't live in California.
But it seems to me I've been convinced by people in law enforcement and the judicial system that we can really allocate our resources in much more -- in much better ways than arresting people for simple possession of marijuana.
In 2008, for example, in California, there were 60,000 arrests just for simple possession of marijuana. And it seems to me a very huge waste of manpower, resources, et cetera, et cetera. There are so many arguments you could make in favor of legalizing it that I really -- I can't come down on the other side.
LEMON: So, Kathleen -- you're a conservative. You're a conservative. So what are you saying --
PARKER: This is a conservative position.
LEMON: Are you saying this should be state's rights, right? Am I correct?
PARKER: Well, it makes sense to me. Why not let a state do this, and then, as an experiment, and we'll see how it goes? We can always undo it. But California seems the right place to start. I'm not sure we'll be able to tell the difference -- I'm just kidding.
(LAUGHTER)
But, look, some of the arguments against are if we legalize pot, then everybody will start smoking. It's a gateway drug, and all that. One of the strongest arguments that poked holes in that argument was from William F. Buckley, who was the leader of the conservative movement. And he came out years ago advocating the legalization of marijuana for all the reasons that have been outlined in this proposition.
LEMON: You're saying legalization or decriminalization, because even in Amsterdam and Canada, they decriminalized it.
PARKER: At the very least, decriminalization. As far as the gateway drug, William F. Buckley made an amazing comment on that. He said "If you think marijuana leads to other drugs, you may as well say all rapists start with masturbation." That's his quote, not mine.
And let's look at the Netherlands where marijuana use is permitted. You have -- we have twice as many young people in this country ages 12 and above using pot as in the Netherlands. So I don't think that argument holds water.
LEMON: Because you could alcohol is a gateway drug as well. And this is the same argument used against legalized alcohol. And you could, in the 20s, get a prescription for alcohol when it was prohibited.
PARKER: Yes. I think those people who are adults and have experience in recreational activities understand that alcoholism and alcohol abuse is far more dangerous to society than pot smokers. What are they going to do? As Bill Maher said, what are they going to do, sit around and eat cookie dough? The worst thing that can happen is they become boring.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Sit to be couch and not do anything.
PARKER: Exactly. And never mind the income that you'll get from taxes, the jobs that will be provided. This is a good stimulus bill, I think. LEMON: Kathleen, you personally, you said you had no interest in it. You couldn't do it because you wouldn't be able to yell at the guy sitting next to you that wants to talk all the time.
PARKER: Maybe that would be another way to get through it.
LEMON: Kathleen --
PARKER: That would be one way of getting through the show.
LEMON: We've got to run. We've got to run. Thank you, Kathleen Parker. Again, welcome to CNN. Good to speak to you. Watch her tonight. It will be on at 8:30 p.m. eastern. It's called "PARKER/SPITZER."
This was just one of the moments that touch people all over the world. This is why hundreds of people worked around the clock for more than 60 days to free 33 men. We'll bring you an update from Chile in just minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back to our live coverage of the miners' rescue in Chile. We want to tell you that we're standing by for the next rescue from the Chile mine. Miner number 22 has started his decent.
And it's interesting to find out all of the roles that these guys are playing. Miner number 22, his name is Samuel Avalos, and he's the one that served as the gas monitor to send greetings to the surface. An emotional and heartbreaking reunion coming up on the other side of the break.
Also this, our political ticker, an update on what's happening around the country politically, and also what's coming up for the midterm elections in less than two weeks. Mark Preston will join us and our Paul Steinhauser as well right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right, we're keeping an on Chile. Not to worry, we're not going to miss any of that. But we want to update you on what's happening politically right now. We want to get to our Paul Steinhauser and our Mark Preston standing by at Washington, D.C.
Just 20 days to Election Day, time to look at campaign developments and everything that's going on there. There they are standing by at the Washington bureau. Hello, guys, busy day. We may have to get back to the miners soon. But what do you have for us?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey, Don. You know, Bill Clinton can be called a lot of things. But I think when the dust settles on the 2010 midterms, he's going to be known as "the closer." He's been campaigning for the Democrats all around the country over the past few months. He was doing it for the primaries.
Tonight he's in Arkansas trying to help out Blanch Lincoln. She's down double digits to the nominee John Boozman down there. She's the chairwoman of the Agriculture Committee which is amazing because she's in such a powerful position that could be helpful to her state, but yet in an anti-incumbent year, she is in a lot of trouble.
Paul, what do you got?
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, another high profile person helping out Democratic candidates, I'm talking, Don, about the first lady, Michelle Obama. I think we have video of this. A couple of hours ago, she was in Wisconsin campaigning with Russ Feingold, a senator there who faces a really tough reelection.
Later today she's going to Illinois. She's going to be, in fact, in seven or eight states in the next week and a half helping out Democratic candidates.
Check this out, our CNN national poll numbers. And look at this, Don. Do you approve or disapprove of how Michelle Obama is handling her duty as first lady? And 65 percent thumbs up. That's a lot higher than her husband's approval rate.
And we asked by party, Democrats nine out of ten giving her thumbs up approval, but even independents, six out of ten independents approving of the job Michelle Obama is doing. That's the kind of person you want on the campaign trail helping you out.
That's what I got. Mark, back to you.
PRESTON: Don, "I'm you." No, I'm not you. But who I'm talking about is Christine O'Donnell. She's the Tea Party favorite, the Republican nominee in Delaware. We've been talking a lot about this debate here tonight. You can watch it streaming live on CNNpolitics.com.
This is a very important race. Why? Because this is the seat that was held by Vice President Biden for 36 years. Democrats were very worried they were going to lose it. They're actually happy that Christine O'Donnell is the Republican nominee. Polling shows that the Democratic nominee, Chris Coons, has a double-digit lead.
A lot can happen in the next 20 days. A lot could happen in the next couple of hours. Could she deliver a fatal blow to Chris Coons? Tune in tonight. Don?
LEMON: Mark Preston, thank you, Paul Steinhauser. We really appreciate it.
Another political update in 30 minutes. And you can always get the latest political news at CNNpolitics.com.
