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Mine Rescue Operation Continues; Rescue of 24th Miner; Debate in Delaware; Fort Hood Shootings Hearing

Aired October 13, 2010 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: I want to welcome the men and women watching us on American Forces Network from all around the world.

Now to the unfolding drama in Chile the everyone is paying attention to. This is the big story that everyone is watching, the rescue of those 33 miners from more than 2,000 feet underground in Chile. They're being pulled to the surface one at a time. And we are bringing you each rescue as it happens. We're waiting for rescue number 22 now.

Right now, you're watching again as the 22nd miner will be hauled up from this mine in just moments.

Standing by on the ground, Karl Penhaul at the mine in Copiapo, Chile.

Karl, number 22, he was the one who monitored the gas situation in the mine. It seems -- it appeared that everyone was made use of down there to keep everyone around them, including themselves, alive.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

And I think that really is the key. We have seen different individuals come out of that hole today. And we can tell you a story about pretty much everyone. We see someone come up like Mario Sepulveda, the number-two man out of the hole.

He's got kind of a flashy style. He's got a big personality. You see Florencio Avalos, the first man out of the hole. He was quiet. He did the kind of video work with that little video camera that was passed down the hole.

And here, number 22, the guy who checked the gases, he, in fact, is the elder brother of the first man out of the hole, Florencio. So imagine that, you know? You see your kid brother go up out of that hole and Know that he's well.

But, yes, as you say, all of these -- all of these miners had an individual job to do while they were there. Mining in itself is a dangerous job. And for that reason, we're told that there's a hierarchy, there's a command structure. And what these 33 miners had to do to stay alive down there for so long so deep was play as a team.

And so, from what the experts have told me, Samuel Avalos was one of the first ones who had to get up in the morning. The morning shift started at 8:00 and then ran through until 4:00. But Samuel Avalos had to be up well before that, so that he could wander up a mile-and- a-half of mine shaft testing for gases just to make sure that there were no chances of an explosion to compound what was already a dire situation.

He's a father. His younger brother, as I say, was down there with him. He has seen him to safety. And now it's his turn. Number 22, Samuel Avalos, coming back up to earth, Don.

LEMON: Yes. And, listen, as we are waiting here, because the last time -- I just want to tell our viewers and update our views, Karl. Don't go anywhere. This question is for you.

The last one took about 10 minutes. This one, it's about -- we're about almost nine minutes since it went back down, and at least since it started its descent, I should say.

Samuel Avalos, the one who monitored the gas for the group, taking readings to send it back up to the surface. The person who came out just before him, Karl, was Yonni Barrios, Yonni Barrios, or Yonni Barrios, however you want to pronounce it. He is the one that became the medic for the entire place.

And then of course the last one who is going to come up is Luis Urzua. He is a shift supervisor that kept all of them together and he kept them holding on to those rations for as long as they could until food and other supplies could come down. So, again, everyone has a place here. And it's going to be very emotional for him as well when it comes up.

Do we know who's standing by waiting for him, Karl?

PENHAUL: No, we don't. We know that he has a wife. His wife is called Ruth (ph). And he has children as well.

So, I imagine that his wife and two of his children will be on standby to see him. He had not worked that long at this mine. He had been there for about five months. But I guess it was his brother who said, hey, there's jobs going here and it's a steady wage.

And so, for that reason, he left his job as a street vender to take up what could have been a fatal job. Lucky, as I say and as we have been saying, that they played as a team there, Don.

LEMON: And it's very -- there we see the folks who are standing by waiting for him to come up, number 22. As we have been saying, it's not just a number. His name is Samuel Avalos, and, again, the person who sort of kept an eye on everything to make sure that they weren't going to be overcome by noxious gas.

You can see the president, Sebastian Pinera, is there as well. And I would imagine that Laurence Golborne, who is the mining minister on the scene -- there he is, number 22 coming up now, applause, as it's happened 21 times before.

(APPLAUSE) LEMON: It takes a little bit for them to release him, unbuckle him, and open up that capsule. And then you can see the people who are standing by waiting for them, as always. They can't -- they're just anticipating this, and can't wait. And really the emotion is palpable.

So we're listen in now to the rescue of 43-year-old Samuel Avalos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ... and lives here in the region of the Atacama Desert.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Love, affection, the passion, and you deserve it all. Thank you, Samuel, for what you have done. You have been really inspiring. And welcome back again to the surface, to life.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Welcome. Welcome.

LEMON: Miner number 22, Samuel Avalos Acuna, known as Samuel Avalos. 43 years old. And if you looked at the side of his helmet, he had 33 written on his helmet, meaning the 33 miners, I'm sure an ode to them there.

Again, he was the gas monitor for the group, taking the readings to send them up to the surface. That was his role in all of this. Now he's back to safety with his family.

Karl Penhaul is standing by there.

Karl, that was -- and we have been watching this unfold -- and I'm just going to be honest -- a very long and loving kiss with his wife. And we have been seeing that unfold time after time. And some of the people there, you can see applauding and just sort of, you know, making light of it and fun of it, going, woo-hoo.

And here's what a doctor -- I read in a report here -- and this is a serious report. It says, you know, and, doctors aside, it says: "Many of the men will also be nursed back to health in the best way possible, sexy times with the women waiting for them at the surface."

And that's the truth, Karl Penhaul.

(LAUGHTER)

PENHAUL: That could well -- quite well be.

I think what strikes me about all these scenes unfolding, Don, is that you look at it now, we're down to miner 22. And it looks like that rescue operation is running on rails. The Phoenix 2 capsule is performing very well. It almost looks routine by now. But, as much as it seems routine, that Phoenix capsule running the 1,800, 2,000 feet back to the surface, what is not routine and what doesn't -- what fails -- does not fail to fascinate me every time is, as each miner steps out of that Phoenix capsule, everyone has a story to tell. And everyone is subject to different emotions.

They have a different experience as they come back. And that is why we're at 17 hours and nine minutes since this rescue mission began, and I can't really take my eyes off of it, just because I want to know how each miner reacts, how each miner's wife, sister, brother reacts when they're all reunited again.

As I say, the 20 minutes, the 10 minutes that that Phoenix capsule rises to the surface seems a very smooth ride, but it's the bit at the top that I really love, seeing these people reunited. That's what we have been waiting for, for 69, 70 days.

That day is finally here. And in many senses, it doesn't matter whose family Samuel Avalos belongs to., because the 33 families that have been camped out here at Camp Hope have over two and more months become a single family. And what we're seeing now is that son 22 of one single family is now back to the surface -- Don.

LEMON: Very well put, Karl Penhaul. And I do have to say that now there are 22 who have been brought up. They are 11 -- 11 more men down in that mine. Thank you, Karl.

We're going to get back to Karl in just a little bit.

Eleven men down in the mine, original men, plus the rescuers who are down there. We're going to talk about the people who are heading up that operation coming up very shortly here.

We're also going to talk about the man who could be credited with saving all of their lives. And that's their shift supervisor. His name is Luis Urzua, 54 years old. He's going to be the one to be brought back up. He's the one that put them all together, brought them to safety, made them ration out food and everything they had until the very last drop, until they could get food and rations and medication all down into that cavern.

And then we're going to be talking to a man who knows all about that. He's a psychologist who can take us through a little bit more of what's happening with these men mentally. That's all coming up.

And while we wait for this next rescue -- there are 11 more -- some of the day's other big stories also going on, and here is one. Did some of the country's biggest banks commit foreclosure fraud, fraud? Did they kick out homeowners who didn't deserve it? You might be one who is watching right now. That's what dozens of state prosecutors want to find out. That is ahead.

And did you hear about this? A high-profile figure in Washington just resigned. Who is it?

Stay there. It's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We are monitoring the rescue efforts in Chile and we're going to go there live in just moments for the 22nd miner to come up -- 23rd miner to come up. But first, here's what else is happening right now. We're going to take you through that quickly and then, again, get back to back to Chile where the drama and emotion are unfolding right now.

The suspect in last year's Fort Hood shootings faced the surviving victims in a courtroom, in a courtroom today. One survivor, an Army medic, gave a chilling account of being shot and crawling to safety. During testimony, the witnesses started banging rapidly on the desk to illustrate how fast the weapons were being fired.

Today's military hearing for Major Nidal Hasan will determine whether he will be court-martialed for the killings of 13 people during a shooting spree last November.

As of today, all 50 states, all 50 states have now joined the investigation into possible foreclosure fraud. Demand for such an investigation has been growing since it was discovered some mortgage lenders may have used flawed court papers in their foreclosures. Real estate and financial experts warn the investigation could halt all foreclosure proceedings.

A gruesome development in the disappearance of an American man on Falcon Lake along the Texas-Mexican border to tell you about. The lead Mexican investigator in the case has been beheaded and this severed head was delivered to the military in a suitcase.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF SIGFREDO GONZALEZ JR., ZAPATA COUNTY, TEXAS: The reason why we're killing people is just to lure them away the investigation. In other words, they're going to take control over the area, that's all there is to it. And if anybody tries to mess with them, try and take control away from them, they're going to be disposed of, they're going to be taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The body of American David Hartley has not yet been found. His wife says he was fatally shot September 30th during a sight-seeing trip.

We're tracking Hurricane Paula as it heads toward Cuba. Right now, Paula is a category 2 hurricane packing 100 mile-per-hour winds. It's expected to hit Cuba tonight or early tomorrow. Tropical storm watch has been issued for parts of the Florida Keys. Our weather center is watching that very closely.

The embattled head of the District of Columbia public schools quitting. Chancellor Michelle Rhee announced today she's stepping down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE RHEE, CHANCELLOR, WASHINGTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS: Today, Chairman Gray and I have reached the mutual decision that I will leave my post as chancellor of the Washington, D.C. public school system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Rhee was in charge of the troubled school district for 3.5 years. She says she plans to spend more time in California. She's engaged to Sacramento Mayor and NBA player Kevin Johnson. She was feature in the movie "Waiting for Superman" about the nation's school system.

Hey, listen, there are live pictures right now in Chile and we're monitoring the situation. One-by-one, the miners are coming to the surface and it has been very emotional. It's been very dramatic. You have seen the tears, you've heard the crying, and you heard the applause and the cheering as well. We're going to take you there.

Plus, we're going to look at whose leading this band of brothers. And we're also going to look at the sunglasses that they have been given. I'm going to show them to you. Got some from the maker of those glasses.

What you see right there on the screen, though, that's Christine O'Donnell versus Chris Coons, and this is all unfolding tonight in a debate. The two Senate candidates square off in Delaware live right here on CNN and we'll have a preview for you next. Wolf will join us, he's moderating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Watching live coverage of the rescue of the miners in Chile. We're monitoring the rescue efforts right now. If you look down into the mine where the men spent 69 days, you'll see number 23 coming up. More than just a number, his name is Carlos Bugueno. Carlos Bugueno served as a carrier pigeon handler. He joined the mines with his childhood friend, Pedro Cortez, who is also down there and will be the 31st miner to come up. Pedro, by the way, is an acoustics expert.

So coming up now, Carlos Bugueno. And it should be about 10 minutes. The last one took about 10.5 minutes and so we're going to be watching that. It could be faster, so you want to stay tuned.

In the meantime, though, as we watch those live picture there in that developing story, you're not going to miss any of it, we want to go now to some politics which is also developing, because just 20 days from today, Americans will cast their votes in the midterm elections and the very control of Congress really may be at stake here.

One of the most-watched contests, of course, is the Delaware Senate race. And tonight, CNN will carry the Delaware Senate debate between Republican candidate Christine O'Donnell and her opponent -- do we even know? He's a democrat. Well, you see his name there, but it's Chris Coons, right. Chris Coons, that is her opponent. So joining me now with a preview of tonight's debate, CNN's senior political analyst Gloria Borger and David Gergen, who's also a senior political analyst.

So guys, let me show you a couple of Monmouth University polls. The polls have Coons leading O'Donnell by 19 percentage points. A poll release yesterday show Coons, the democratic New Castle County executive, leading O'Donnell 57 percent to 38 percent among likely voters.

And so I want to know just what's dragging down O'Donnell in these polls? Is it her qualifications or rather the fact that likely voters do not feel that she's qualified? Because that same poll shows that while 64 percent of likely voters believe that Coons is qualified to be senator, only 35 percent say O'Donnell is it qualified.

So, Gloria, tonight could be a really crucial step for O'Donnell to show that she is qualified to be senator. Can she -- can she bridge the gap here?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, she's got a long -- a long way to go. We have a new poll of ours that's going to come out in an hour or so.

And, look, this is a candidate, I think you'd have to say that she had a kind of unorthodox introduction to the voters of Delaware. She's done her ads saying I'm not a witch. And tonight, I think, in this debate with Wolf Blitzer, she has got to prove that she's confident, that she's rational, that she's thoughtful, and that she's qualified to become a United States senator.

So, I think, you know, it's a pretty heavy lift for her, but if she can prove that on the issues she has something to say, people might just listen. You never know.

LEMON: So listen, David, I want to ask you this -- and, David, you and I have talked about this before, about as Gloria said, the unorthodox way that she was introduced to the voters with that I'm not a witch and all those things that are from Bill Maher -- but this may be providing her with a lift. And the polling may not be not exactly show how who is going to turn out here. She may be getting a lift from all this publicity.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, she's raising money. And I'll tell you this, she's way behind, probably impossibly behind. But there are a heck of a lot of people interested in her and we'll be following what she has to say tonight. There is sort of a fascination factor here that works in her favor.

And if she can come out and seem I really want to view and really give voice to the frustrations Americans feel, maybe she could get a boost out of this, who knows?

I also think it's a window into the way the Tea Party candidates think. It's not just her, she's a representative of a broader group of people and her arguments are going to be -- very interesting for that. We've heard the all about her personal foibles, but we haven't heard her main argument. So I think that, in itself, is an interesting debate.

LEMON: So, David, let me jump in right here because there is some polling out there, David, that suggests that the man O'Donnell beat in the primary, his name is Mike Castle, that he would be leading in the general election race against Chris coons. So who backed O'Donnell and why? Why did they put her in the position and not Castle?

GERGEN: Well, the Tea Party movement, which is very strong in southern Delaware and a lot of people who are antiestablishment here really gave her the lift. And they're a very. very small group of people. Not very many people voted in the Republican primary in Delaware, so that gave her the lift.

And you know, he was -- Mike Castle carried this heavy burden of working too closely with the other side, especially on cap and trade and on TARP, voting for -- essentially for what were seen as Obama initiatives. That really hurt him.

But the other thing that's going on right now, Don, Gloria could address this, is that Mike Castle is telling John King, I think it's going to be on tonight, that he is not endorsing -- he's not going to endorse her, and that's not helpful. From -- Republicans normally unite after their primaries. In this case, is not going out to her. It does really put a pretty heavy nail in her campaign.

LEMON: Hey, Gloria, go ahead, respond to that.

BORGER: You know, it's really a signal to those independent voters, and there's a considerable number of independent voters in this state, and to moderate Republicans that he doesn't think that O'Donnell isn't qualified to be a United States senator.

So I think the fact that Castle -- there was a point that he could of mounted a write-in candidacy, he decided not to do that, but the fact that he's not going to endorse her is a real signal to those independent voters about what he thinks and I think that's a real problem for her.

Also, her opponent, Chris Coons, is, as you said, the New Castle County executive. He's kind of the accidental candidate here and he's not considered really a professional politician the way Mike Castle was. So I think that in a way works to his advantage this year.

LEMON: Hey, both Gloria and David, I've got to run, but do you think it makes a difference for Coons if the vice president, and that's his former seat, is supporting him, is endorsing him?

BORGER: I think it won't hurt.

GERGEN: I don't. It won't hurt, but I don't think it will be that much difference. Everybody knows Joe Biden supports him. You know, what's the news.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: That's why we have you here.

BORGER: Democrat, democrat, right.

LEMON: Thank you. I just thought, maybe some support from the White House might make some difference or it could not make a difference.

Thank you, David Gergen. Thank you, Gloria Borger. We'll be watching for you tonight and of course, our very own Wolf Blitzer will be moderating that debate. Make sure -- it starts at 7:30 p.m. right here on CNN. It's going to be interesting.

In the meantime, you're looking at live pictures now from Chile. For two weeks there, 33 miners sat underground wondering whether everybody thought they were dead in a mine collapse, if they would be even be rescued. But what happen in those two weeks is an amazing story. Somebody took the lead, somebody took the lead there and somebody is the reason why all of the guys are alive. His story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, we're watching all this develop in Chile there. And I think in just a few minutes, we're going to have another rescue here. I think number 23 is going to come up and his name is Carlos Bugueno, Carlos Bugueno, and he's a carrier pigeon handler. He's going to come up with his friend. His friend - or he's going to come up. His friend, who is number 31 will come up after him. They both went down together and joined the mine together and they were childhood friends. Number 31. His name is Pedro Cortez, that'll happen later. He's an acoustics expert.

But again, their friends, family members have been going through this together. What an incredible story it has been witnessing all evening and all day here on CNN. One-by-one, hour by hour, Chile's trapped miners have emerged into the bright light of day. You can see in the faces of those rescued, the faces of those still waiting down below. You just - you can't just get enough of this stuff.

And I want you to hold on to that thought really quickly. I want to get back to that. Look at this. This is what the capsule, we're showing what's going on here. Hey, let's show that tweet from the president who -- do we have it up? Here's the tweet from the president.

Here's what the president of Chile has been tweeting there in Spanish. Basically saying he wanted to thank everyone for their support in all of this. Let me just get the translation so I can tell you exactly what he is saying here. He is saying "Thank you very much also to all who have sent me messages and encouraging words. This day has been special for everyone." And that's from Sebastian Pinera. He is the president of Chile.

But again, I want you to hold on to the thoughts about the other person coming up. We will get to him. But in many ways, the best way thing that saved all of these men was one man. The last man out of this will be the foreman, who is credited for keeping the 33 men alive. He's named Luis Urzua. He's being heralded as one of the best bosses ever.

So, we're going to bring in Bob Sutton. His specialty is organizational behavior. He teaches at Stanford. He's written a book called "Good Boss, Bad Boss." So, I want to begin with this man, right now, specifically. What puts him, Mr. Sutton, on the good boss list?

BOB SUTTON, AUTHOR, "GOOD BOSS, BAD BOSS": Well, if you start out, Luis is just the model of somebody who combines confidence in his work -- he was their foreman before, he's been in the industry for a long time. And compassion for the people he leads. And the part you indicated which I think was most impressive was the first 14 days, they have no idea what was going on --

LEMON: No idea what's going on.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I have to tell you, as we watch this - and you may have to help me get through this, because we're watching now. We believe 23 is coming up.

SUTTON: Sure.

LEMON: Until he surfaces, though, go ahead and finish your thought, and we'll get right back to it. Go ahead.

SUTTON: Sure. So, to me the thing that was especially striking, for the first -- they were so low on food, a man was getting a cup of milk and two teaspoons of tuna fish every 48 hours, but he brought in the predictability and sort of had authority so people didn't start, like, go after one another.

LEMON: Right, and Bob, here he goes. Stand by, Bob Sutton. We appreciate it.

SUTTON: Got you.

LEMON: We're going to get back to you.

The applause and cheer that happens with all of them.

(PEOPLE SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

LEMON: There is family is, standing by. His loved ones, and of course, again, you can see the president of Chile just a short time ago. Takes a while for them to get them unstrapped. And he's unstrapped. And there it goes.

SEBASTIAN PINERA, CHILEAN PRESIDENT (via translator): Welcome, Carlos. You don't know how your mother was waiting for you. Congratulations, and welcome. Back to life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you. Congratulations.

Welcome. Rene, who was one of the key rescue workers. Delores. Thank you so much. Welcome.

LEMON: So, Mr. Sutton, as we watch this, the emotion here. And I'm sure that all of these men will no doubt be crediting Mr. Urzua, Luis Urzua for this moment.

SUTTON: So, absolutely. As I was saying, there was no way they would have gotten through the first 14 days without him. One of the things he did that I really liked was to give them some sort of rhythm for the day, they had some trucks down there. It's a huge space, and they would turn on the lights for 12 hours a day to give them sort of a predictability and to get into a rhythm.

And another one of the things he did, which is another hallmark of great bosses was that he found people to sort of build the team to help him. So, there was one fellow who led all the spiritual stuff. And in a situation like that, prayer is very important for giving hope. And some feeling that there is a larger force there in control. And there was another guys who had that training and medical stuff, so he helped with the miners' health.

And that's another hallmark of great leaders. They have the sense to not do everything themselves. They put, if you will, the right players in the right positions.

LEMON: Bob Sutton, thank you sir. We appreciate it. He came up right during the time. It was perfect that you came on so you can explain the emotion and that gratitude these guys will be giving for a lifetime to their boss and leader. Thank you, Bob Sutton. We appreciate it.

We want to show you this as well. You can see that all of the miners are coming up are wearing sunglasses, even the ones at night, because they have been down in the dark for so long -- for 69 days. These are -- we've gotten them from the manufacturers. They were sent to us. These are Oakley sunglasses, if we can get them right here.

There we go, these Oakley sunglasses here will set you back for $180. And again, they say because it completely blocks the UVA, the UVB, the UVC, all of that. I would imagine their eyes have grown sensitive by now for being down there for so long. But again, some of the best sun glasses in the world, set you back $180. All of the miners, all of the miners who have been trapped down there getting these by Oakley. A good deed by Oakley sunglasses. Thank you, Oakley, for that, and thank you for providing them to the miners who so desperately need them as they are coming up to make sure their eyes are protected.

So, it is a big day, a big day, when it comes to the rescue here. It's also a huge day in politics that we're following. And I want you to look at who is standing by right now. His name is Mr. John King with brand new information just in from the world of politics.

The CNN Political Ticker next. Don't go anywhere, John. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. Before we get back to the miners in Chile, we want to handle some politics here because just 20 days until election day. And it's time for a look at the latest campaign developments, including news on the Delaware Senate debate that you will see live tonight on CNN. It will be a good one.

CNN has all of your latest political news with The Best Political Team on Television. And there he is, John King at the CNN political desk. John , good to see you. What's crossing right now?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Don. Well, to start with, the number one crossing - usually it's Wolf Blitzer who's here in this hour giving the ticker update. But he's not playing hooky today. He's up in Delaware - Newark, Delaware, to be exact -- where he'll be the co-moderator in the debate tonight between the Republican Christine O'Donnell and Democrat Chris Coons. And the headline says it all: "All eyes on showdown between O'Donnell and Coons."

That Delaware Senate race has gotten a lot of national attention. We have for you right now some brand-new poll numbers that shows the challenge Christine O'Donnell faces tonight. In our new poll, among likely voters in Delaware, Chris Coons the Democrat leads 57 percent to 38 percent. So, almost a 20-point lead there for Chris Coons going in.

And remember the Christine O'Donnell ad where she says," I'm you," to the people of Delaware. Well, apparently, they don't see it quite that way. Who understands the needs and problems of people like you? Chris Coons, the Democrat winning 54 percent to 34 percent. Those poll numbers underscoring the challenge she faces tonight, Don.

And one last quick one for you. You know, when I came to CNN, my first job was to cover the Bill Clinton White House. One of the defining stories back in those days was the war against the former Yugoslavia that ended up creating the independent Kosovo. Well, Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state now, went to Kosovo and we can show you a picture, I hope of her standing in front of the statue they built there to former President Clinton. It's a great shot. The photo of Secretary of State Clinton. If you want get a closer look at that, go to our blog, CNN.com/JohnKingUSA. I just thought, isn't that a fascinating photo there, Don?

LEMON: Cute. It's a cute picture.

KING: Cute.

LEMON: Yes. So, listen --

KING: That was one of the defining stories back in those days.

LEMON: You came to CNN to cover the Clinton White House. You were a mere child, a prodigy. That's why you're so young now. Can we get back to this Delaware Senate race that is going on? Because there is some polling that suggests -- I talked to Gloria Borger about this and David Gergen. Suggests that O'Donnell - the man that she beat in the primary, Mike Castle, would be leading in the general election. So, what is going on here? What does that say?

KING: Well, we're going to have Mike Castle on the program tonight on "JOHN KING USA." You'll be interested in his thoughts on this race. Number one, he won't endorse, but he has a whole lot more to say.

What is at stake? What does it say? What it says is Mike Castle won 12 times statewide, Don. He's a former governor. He was a lieutenant governor. He's won the one House seat Delaware has. He's very popular statewide.

But this was a Republican primary. And the Tea Party had new force in Delaware, especially in southern Delaware, the rural areas. They're mad at incumbents. They're mad at all incumbents. They're especially mad -- look at Mike Castle in Delaware. Bob Bennett, an incumbent senator out in Utah beat. Lisa Murkowski, an incumbent Republican senator of Alaska beat, all by Tea Party forces who decided that their Republicans weren't conservative enough. Supported too much spending.

There's an anger on the left. There's an anger on the right. There's a lot of frustration. Yes, Mike Castle would have been the overwhelming favorite in November. But he lost the primary because he lost the faith of the Tea Party grassroots Republicans.

LEMON: Whatever it is, it's made for interesting stories and interesting reporting and interesting television. Thank you, John King. We appreciate it.

Another political update next hour. You can always get the latest political news at CNNpolitics.com and on Twitter @politicalticker.

Standing by, look at that live. Happy moments, and we hope they continue to be happy moments. But listen, we want to tell you, you can't really exhale yet because everyone is not out of the woods. They have a couple more men to go. We're keeping our fingers crossed that everything will work out. But, still, the drama is unfolding. They're not out of danger yet. We're following it all live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Twenty-three of the 33 men trapped down in that mine for 69 days all brought up to safety. All appear to be in good health.

We're waiting on number 24. Number 24 is Jose Henriquez, and there you see him. They are loading him into that capsule, into that cavern where they were trapped for 69 days.

The live coverage continues here on CNN. And what an emotional experience it is when they get out of that capsule at the surface and their family members and friends greet them, ,and the rescuers who are waiting at the surface as well. You're not going to miss a moment of that.

Also here on CNN, more on the big debate tonight, the Delaware Senate debate. Our very own Wolf Blitzer will be co-moderating that debate, and he's going to do join us live in moments to do a curtain- raiser for us, tell us what we can expect.

We're back in a moment here on CNN.

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LEMON: Oh boy. We're following this breaking news as you see it there. We're waiting on -- look at the folks who are there on the scene. Of course, so excited about all those miners who are coming up. We're waiting on number 24, Jose Henriquez, to come up.

We saw 23 come up just a short time ago. And with each man who is rescued from that mine, it is just as emotional as the first one to come up.

We're going to continue to follow that. It should happen in just a few minutes.

But I want to go now to someone who knows everything about politics, and someone who I really expect and you do, too. He is in Newark, Delaware, we can call it in the Delaware Valley. Being a former resident of the Delaware Valley, that's where he is, our very own Wolf Blitzer.

Wolf, I haven't been this excited about a debate since the presidential debates back in 2008.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": It's going to be a really good debate here on the campus of the University of Delaware, Don, because two candidates, a Republican candidate, a Democratic candidate, with very different views, and that will be obvious right out of the box. Christine O'Donnell, she's generated a lot of publicity, a lot of buzz since she beat Mike Castle for the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate. Chris Coons, the Democratic candidate.

I think our viewers -- more importantly, the voters here in this state, in the state of Delaware -- will have a better opportunity to appreciate who these two individuals are and who they're not, because we're going to get through some of the most important, substantive issues of the day, economic issues, jobs, domestic issues, national security issues. We're going to go through a lot, and I think it's going to be productive for the people who are going to go out November 2nd and vote.

LEMON: And it's also, you know, a real introduction to -- that people will get, our viewers. And probably more important for the people who live there in the Delaware Valley. But they will be introduced to Chris Coons, because right now, in the national spotlight, in the media, Christine O'Donnell has overshadowed him, Wolf.

And I'm wondering, do you think this is going to come up during the debate? Are you going to talk about the witch thing, or is that really not part of it?

BLITZER: I think it will probably come up in the course of the debate. But, you know, I don't know how he's going to handle that issue.

We did hear her respond. She did an exclusive interview with our own Jim Acosta last week, and he asked her several questions related to that. So we have a sense of how she's going to respond, and we certainly know that commercial she did, that commercial that began with the words, "I am not a witch. I am you."

So we understand where she's coming from. It will be interesting. It will be very interesting. You raise a good point. How will Chris Coons deal with this issue? Because he's got his own issues out there as well.

She's going to come back and rail against him for raising taxes as a county executive, among other things. So this could get heated.

LEMON: So listen, they're both, am I right -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- they're both newcomers to the political process. Is there any way, Wolf -- do you have to treat this differently? Say you were doing a Hillary Clinton and Obama, or Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, what have you. They are pros and have been doing it for years. These two haven't.

Is there a different way to handle that?

BLITZER: I think it's a different way in the sense that most of our viewers really don't know much about these two candidates. A little bit. They probably know a little bit more about Christine O'Donnell than they do Chris Coons.

So, to a certain degree, they'll be introducing themselves to the American public, maybe to a lesser degree to the people of Delaware who have had a chance to watch them both a little bit more closely. So, yes, we have gone through the questioning in a different way than, for example, when I did that debate at the Kodak Theatre in Los Angeles, the last debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Everyone knew by then who Hillary Clinton was, who Barack Obama was. So were the questions were different, a little bit different than the questions will be this time, when we're introducing these candidates more along those lines.

LEMON: Wolf Blitzer, we're going to be watching, 7:30 tonight. And like I said, I haven't been this excited since the presidential election about a debate.

Wolf Blitzer is in Newark, Delaware, not to be confused with Newark, New Jersey. Two different places there and two different pronunciations.

Thank you, Wolf. 7:30 p.m. tonight.

You see there on the screen live pictures coming from Chile, where we're waiting for miner number 24. Miner number 24, his name is Carlos -- excuse me, his name is Jose Henriquez. Jose Henriquez.

He's coming up just shortly. You won't miss it. There he is, 54 years old.

We'll tell you more about him after the break and watch his rescue here live as well.

And there's also some news out today about Fort Hood, Texas, the shooting there. We'll take you there live next.

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LEMON: As we watch the situation unfolding in Chile, we want to talk about another story that gave people chills. And we're talking about the testimony at the evidentiary hearing for the accused Fort Hood shooting today. In fact, they had to stop playing a 911 tape from last year's shooting which left 13 people dead because one witness couldn't stop crying.

They're not releasing the tape right now, but our Chris Lawrence was in the courtroom, and he joins us now live from Fort Hood, Texas.

Chris, a very emotional day in the courtroom and quite unusual.

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Don. I mean, it really gives you an idea that even as we in the media move on to other stories, the trauma of crimes like this really stays with the victims for a very long time.

Michelle Harper (ph) was on the stand when they started to replay her 911 call. You know, she ducked down under a desk as the shooting was going on. She's just a civilian who was working there. And you could hear throughout this whole tape the moans of the injured soldiers. You could hear people screaming in the background.

And every few seconds, you could hear a steady "pop, pop, pop, pop," just as the witnesses described it. At one point, just listening to that tape, her own voice so distraught, she just put her head down and sobbed.

LEMON: Listen, Chris, I hate to interrupt you, sir. We need to get to Chile, where miner number 24, Jose Henriquez, is coming up.

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LEMON: And we're going to listen to this and I'm going to tell you this. I'm just going to let it play out, because it's always emotional.

And then my friend in Newark, Delaware, Wolf Blitzer, will pick it up in just a few minutes here on CNN.

Jose Henriquez, miner number 24.

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