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Georgia Firefighter Embroiled in Controversy; Pentagon Shooting Probe Continues; Violent Pension Protests in France
Aired October 20, 2010 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Ali, thank you.
I have a tough story to bring you here at the top of the hour, but it's one you need to see and you need to hear. It is horrific. It is heartbreaking. There really are no other words for this. And then, if you can believe it, this heartbreak is multiplied by someone you would least expect.
A family in Georgia buried their daughter Dayna a couple of months ago. She was 23 years of age. She was a mother. She had two little children. She died alone and violently in a horrific car crash.
Want to take you to where it happened. This was the memorial. This was July 17 of this year. Dayna's SUV flipped over. It hit some trees. Dayna did not survive.
Not long afterward, firefighters arrived at the accident scene. And that is where this already awful chain of events turns even worse.
I have asked Dayna Kempson-Schacht's family to join me. And here they are today graciously. They agreed already, with tears in their eyes, I see.
Mrs. Lucretia, Jeff, Toby, I know it's tough. I'm sick to my stomach even sitting here with you and having to talk about your daughter, your sister. But it's a story you want to get out.
But, first, let's go back a couple of months. This accident was in July here in Georgia. You are burying your daughter, horrific enough. You're beginning to get over what happened.
And, Jeff, you -- you get a text message. Take me back. When did you get it and where were you?
JEFFREY KEMPSON, FATHER OF DAYNA KEMPSON-SCHACHT: It was September 29. We were at home. I got a call from my sister. She said that her ex-husband, an ex-brother-in-law of mine, had received a text video, and that he was sure that it was our daughter, and kind of gave her a background of what was going on in that video.
And when she referred it to me, I was like, no, that can't be.
BALDWIN: What was the video of? J. KEMPSON: It was a video of what they thought at that time was two people on the scene, not knowing who they were, sheriff, you know, fire, EMS, didn't know, but they were actually taking a video of our daughter lying inside her vehicle, and that it was very graphic.
And I immediately called. She gave me the number. I called my ex-brother-in-law, and I spoke with him. And he said, "Jeff, I -- I don't know how to tell you this, but I'm pretty sure it's her."
And I asked him to send it to me.
BALDWIN: And you walked outside.
J. KEMPSON: I walked outside. No one knew what was going on.
He sent me the video. And I viewed it. And -- and, immediately -- I mean, I just can't tell you, you know, what I felt. It just -- I knew it was her. I recognized her car. I recognized her clothing.
And in the part of the video where they actually pan the flashlight to her upper body --
BALDWIN: Yes.
J. KEMPSON: And I just really can't speak about what I saw. But I knew it was her.
BALDWIN: You knew it was her.
J. KEMPSON: It was her beautiful blonde hair. And, you know --
BALDWIN: Oh.
And at what point did you feel like you wanted to share it with your wife? Did you want to share it with your wife initially?
J. KEMPSON: No, I did not. But, unfortunately, she came out right after I had viewed the video, and she knew what was going on. She knew something was really, really wrong. And --
BALDWIN: So, Lucretia, you knew something was wrong. You saw the look in your husband's eyes, and you said, what was it? And so you watched the video?
LUCRETIA KEMPSON, MOTHER OF DAYNA KEMPSON-SCHACHT: I -- he begged me not to. He said, "Let me just let you listen to it."
I said, "No, I need to see it," because I couldn't believe someone would be little my daughter like that. It just -- no. And I saw it, and it was my -- my daughter.
BALDWIN: And, Toby, did you see it?
TOBY KEMPSON, BROTHER OF DAYNA KEMPSON-SCHACHT: I have not seen the video, no.
BALDWIN: You have not seen it.
T. KEMPSON: Don't want to see it.
BALDWIN: I don't want to see it either. I haven't seen it. I'm never going to see it.
But to help explain your story and push it farther, the reason you're here today, we have a snippet, with your permission, of some of the audio. Let's play it and then we're going to walk through it. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Smell like she's been drinking. We got a piece of skull right there on the console.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I kept wondering what that smell was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold that down for me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: A piece of the skull.
Hearing that now, this is -- this is from months ago -- does it just bring it all back?
J. KEMPSON: Every time.
L. KEMPSON: Every time we hear it.
J. KEMPSON: Every time.
BALDWIN: What -- you -- we don't want to go into what we saw, what you saw in the video, but it was horrific, needless to say. You saw her blonde hair. You knew it was your daughter. You immediately start thinking what? Who shot this?
J. KEMPSON: Who shot it? Why did they shoot it? For what reason would they have to disrespect her in that way?
BALDWIN: And, so, you had perfectly reasonable questions.
J. KEMPSON: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: At what point did you pick up the phone and figure out it was a firefighter?
J. KEMPSON: Well, because of the accident itself. We -- there's an ongoing investigation. We have spoken with an attorney. And I called him for advice.
And he told me, he said, you need to go to every department that was on scene that night and file a complaint. They would start their own internal investigation as to if it was their department, and they could exclude or include themselves.
So, I started with the -- I started with the investigative agencies first, the state patrol, the -- the sheriff's department the city police department. It was through the city, the police department's investigation that they actually uncovered that it was the fire department.
BALDWIN: So, you find out this is a firefighter supposed to be doing his job on the scene possibly rescuing your daughter, sense of urgency in the audio and the video. I mean, at what point do you turn from your mourning over your daughter to, I imagine, rage, rage?
J. KEMPSON: It was fairly quickly.
You know, she just -- she was hurt so bad. And to just -- I just can't describe to you have how -- how much it hurt to see her like that, to know that somebody actually was just sitting there talking about her lying in that vehicle like that.
BALDWIN: How angry are you?
L. KEMPSON: I get more angry every day.
If it was -- I want to ask him, you know, if -- what if that was your child or your mother or your sister? Wouldn't you feel the same way? My daughter, she didn't deserve this.
BALDWIN: Have you --
L. KEMPSON: We don't deserve this.
BALDWIN: How -- where do you stand with the fire department? What did -- what has the fire department said to you? And have you spoken with this firefighter?
J. KEMPSON: No, we have not spoken with the firefighter. They haven't disclosed to us even who he is. We haven't received anything from anyone from the fire department, from the county. We have had no contact, or they have not contacted us at this point.
BALDWIN: What do you want to see happened? What do you want changed, because, so far, he would just -- this firefighter -- and we have reached out to the fire department, and they say, of course, they're investigating. He -- this firefighter could face disciplinary action, but there's no -- there would be no criminal charges, because there's no law preventing this, preventing someone to have a personal cell phone, taking video, spreading it around.
What do you want to happen, Lucretia?
L. KEMPSON: We want a law to prevent this from happening to someone else.
And the further we get into this, we're seeing that this happens quite often with people. We don't want someone else to have to view their child that way. It -- those are private moments. It's respect for the dead. When you're in a funeral procession, you pull over out of respect for the dead.
Is this respect for her? It's not.
BALDWIN: If you had that firefighter sitting next to you -- Toby, this is your -- your big sis. I have a little brother. I mean, we all try to put ourselves -- I -- I can't imagine. But if you had that firefighter sitting right here -- and we have reached out -- we're trying to get a hold of someone in the fire department -- what would you say to him?
T. KEMPSON: Ask him why. Why would you put this out for the public to see, I mean, to reopen wounds? I mean, it's -- it's appalling that our heroes are doing this. I just want to know why he did it.
BALDWIN: He shared it. This firefighter took this video, has -- has admitted to taking this video of your daughter at this accident scene, ultimately sat around with a group of friends. Those friends --
L. KEMPSON: At the firehouse.
BALDWIN: At the firehouse.
Those friends later shared it with their friends through cell phones and text messaging. This thing spread, and it wound up in your phone.
J. KEMPSON: And that's how easily it can happen.
I can't say that it was fortunate that I got it, because it shouldn't have never happened to start with. But, if this leads us to get some type of legislation passed, some kind of law that will not allow these rescuers, responders, law enforcement to be able to video these people in their worst time, even death, that's what our goal is.
That's why we're here today. That's why we have been on the shows that we went on, is to make everyone aware that -- how easily this can happen and how fast it can spread. And it spreads fast.
BALDWIN: It does spread fast.
Jeff, Lucretia, Toby, I appreciate, I admire your strength sitting here next to me. And thank you. We're sorry for your loss.
L. KEMPSON: Thank you.
J. KEMPSON: You're welcome.
BALDWIN: Nearly 20 years ago, Anita Hill accused Clarence Thomas of sexual harassment. And now his wife wants an apology.
It's the voice-mail that blindsided Hill and pretty much shocked all of us -- details coming up.
And they are still counting the bullets and searching for suspects in this bizarre shooting outside the Pentagon. We have some new details on that story. That is next. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: We have a couple of news stories moving this hour. Want to get you caught up.
First, take a look at this, in France, an ugly turn in the country's protests. We have been talking about this week. This is all over pension reform. Riot police, they are now using tear gas, batons, in some cases -- look at the smoke -- in some cases, rubber bullets, all in confrontation with all these strikers.
This nationwide strike began more than a week ago, after France announced its plans to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62. Right now, there's an impasse, with labor unions calling for another nationwide strike and President Nicolas Sarkozy saying he is not backing down on pension reform.
Also, have an update for you this hour on that shooting. You remember this? This was early yesterday morning at the Pentagon. Officials now say more bullets than they had originally thought hit the building. Officials say at least six shots were fired. Two bullets hit windows. Four other bullets hit the building's facade.
Evidence has been taken to the FBI lab, and investigators now, they are also going over some of the surveillance video they have. They -- they believe this is a random, isolated incident.
And heads--up to the parents and grandparents out there. If you have a baby stroller, check to see if it's a Graco Quattro Tour or MetroLite. Then you need to check the manufacture date. Quattro Tour models made before November of 2006 and MetroLite models made before July of 2007 are being recalled.
The Consumer Product Safety Commission says the strollers are linked to the deaths of four infants and injuries to six others.
And getting down to the wire here, it is crunch time for all those governor races in 37 states. Why are these campaigns so vital to the GOP, the Tea Party movement, and the White House? Jessica Yellin has been crisscrossing the country.
We have been trying to keep up with you, Jessica. You were in Ohio yesterday.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: I think you're back in D.C. today. Jess will have the latest on all those battlegrounds. That is next.
Also, city managers thought they caught an red-handed. We have this video of him dancing, chopping wood, playing games after claiming he was too hurt to work. You have got to see this video. And what did a judge ultimately decide? That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: Ah, the lucky 13, 13 days until election, and President Obama really now trying to fire up, as he has been, his Democratic base. In fact, he spoke to a crowd of 35,000 in Ohio just this past Sunday, the largest gathering he has addressed actually since his inauguration.
It was Obama's 11th trip -- 11th -- to the state since becoming president and the only political rally to which he brought his top draw, the first lady, Michelle Obama. There they are.
He was there for Democratic Governor Ted Strickland, who is down in the polls and is in danger of defeat. And it's certainly no secret, the White House lurking -- working very, very hard to hold the House, hold the Senate, hold those numbers they have.
But why pull out all the stops for this particular governor's race?
And who better to ask than the gal who was just there, Jessica Yellin, who is racking up the frequent-flier miles, who is now in Washington, D.C.?
And, Jessica, we were talking about this race yesterday, and looking sort of nationwide here, we know there are 37 governor's races to speak of. We talk so much about some of these Senate races, but why are the gubernatorial races so, so key?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, I will give you two big reasons.
One, the party that controls the governor's mansion, is an accepted fact, has a much better shot at winning the state in a presidential election. And there are about 10 presidential battleground states with governor's races, including some of those states where we were constantly in them during the 2008 presidential election, saying, which way will it go, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida.
So, it's crucial. If you win that governor's seat, you have a much better chance that your party will win it in the presidential election.
Number two, redistricting. Every 10 years, our state governments have the opportunity to redraw lines of congressional districts. And the way you draw those lines can pretty much guarantee that a Democrat or a Republican is all but certain to win.
Governors, they get the final say on what those district lines will look like. They can veto. So, who you elect governor in fact can control who runs Congress for the next 10 years. It's amazing, but it really is true that they could tilt the balance of power in Congress for the next decade.
And then, of course, Brooke, your governor determines your entire state budget, but we can talk about that another time.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Right, right, right.
Let's -- let's get back to the White House --
YELLIN: All right.
BALDWIN: -- because the White House, right, as you sort --
YELLIN: Right.
BALDWIN: -- alluded to, you know, they are really watching some of these races so closely because they have a better chance to -- to -- to win the presidency or take it away. So, that must be one of the reasons why Mr. Obama is paying close attention to these 37 races.
YELLIN: Absolutely, and especially to a state like Ohio, which is considered by Democrats a firewall.
The state you were talking about, Ohio, the analysis is, the president could lose many of those once Republican states he won last time around in 2012. If he holds on to Ohio, he can still hold on to the White House. So they're determined to make sure that he is got -- has a good ground game there, and that means having a Democrat in the governor's mansion --
BALDWIN: Aha.
YELLIN: -- to begin with.
BALDWIN: And to Delaware --
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: -- because it's a race a lot of people like talking about.
YELLIN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: We're talking about Tea Party darling Christine O'Donnell. She had a little bit of a problem with the First Amendment. This was just yesterday.
YELLIN: Little bit.
BALDWIN: A little bit, little bit of a problem.
So for those of you who didn't hear what she said, we're going to play it.
Jess, we will talk on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O'DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Where in the Constitution is separation of church and state?
(LAUGHTER)
CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: It's in --
(LAUGHTER)
COONS: No, an excellent point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on, please. Please.
O'DONNELL: You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?
COONS: The government shall make no establishment of --
O'DONNELL: That's in the First Amendment?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, maybe it doesn't say explicitly separation of church and state, different language, whatever. It was bad. And a lot of people yesterday piled on to criticize her. But, Jessica, I think one of the questions is, some of -- some of the media, are we being unfair to certain female candidates, perhaps more so than men, running in some of these races?
YELLIN: Simply, no, I don't think so. I think Christine O'Donnell in that debate went on to -- she was asked about the other amendments, 14th and 16th, and she didn't know what those were either.
This is a woman who is constantly citing the Constitution and the importance of returning to constitutional principles. And I really think that it's imperative on us, as the media, to hold women to the same standards that we would hold male candidates.
What I do think we have a problem with, Brooke, is that too often these days, we are focusing on the women candidates that make gaffes, for example, Christine O'Donnell.
BALDWIN: Hmm.
YELLIN: But would you know that there are other women candidates running, brand-new on the national scene, who aren't getting so much attention?
So, for example, there is a race where one woman is running against another woman for governor. It's the state of New Mexico. You almost never hear about it. Both of those women are considered qualified, and they do not go around making such significant gaffes all the time.
They just don't get quite as much press attention, because we tend to focus on --
(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: Yes, yes.
YELLIN: -- ones.
BALDWIN: We like the people that tend to make the news, and they tend to be the ones who we put on --
(CROSSTALK)
YELLIN: Oh, they just put the pictures of them.
BALDWIN: Yes.
YELLIN: Those are the two women running -- sorry -- for New Mexico's governor. Sorry. Go ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
BALDWIN: Gotcha.
So -- so, we should obviously hold men and women the same way, criticize equally. All is fair, men and women.
Jessica Yellin, interesting perspective, though.
YELLIN: Yes.
BALDWIN: You know, some people are saying we're criticizing one more than the other. Thank you, Jessica. Good to see you back in Washington.
Still to come here: Obscene fraternity stunts -- you will not believe this -- take place -- look, yes, they take place on a lot of college campuses, even Ivy League campuses, but what allegedly happened at Yale recently has gone viral and shocked a lot of women and men across the country.
And it starts with the chant, "No means yes" -- mocking rape, insulting co-eds. It went very quickly downhill from there. That is ahead.
Also, this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're studying American history, but we're looking at -- at all contributions, and it -- and not just from the white, dominant narrative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Here's an interesting question. Whose history will be told in Arizona schools? After months and months of debate, protests, the schools have launched a strict new policy for ethnic studies. What does that mean? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM.
The man in charge of all public schools in Arizona wants a certain type of class just totally taken out of the curriculum, erased, just like, you know, chalk on a chalkboard. They're classes only taught in Tucson. They're called ethnic studies.
And this superintendent says it divides along racial lines and teaches that white people oppress Hispanics. Now, he doesn't just hint at that. He says it outright. Now, teachers in Tucson want to keep the courses and now they are suing to keep them.
I want you to watch this. This is classroom culture clash, what we're calling it. It's a report from CNN's Thelma Gutierrez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lawmakers have agreed to ban so-called "ethnic studies programs" in our schools.
TOM HORNE, ARIZONA STATE SUPERINTENDENT: Students are taught a revolutionary curriculum. It's an outrageous abuse of taxpayer funds.
TEXT: Arizona lawmakers pass HB-2281, banning ethnic studies courses in Arizona public schools.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Education!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when do we want it?
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Now! Education is not a crime!
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a showdown in Arizona over the right to teach American history, American government, art and literature from a Mexican-American perspective.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Culture clash tackles -- looks like -- what kind of issues would we call those? Social justice issues. So, racism, classism, xenophobia.
CURTIS ACOSTA, ETHNIC STUDIES TEACHER: I want people to know that we're proud of our contributions from a Chicano perspective. We're proud of the contributions we made to this country. We think it's worthy of study.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to talk about his themes, I want you to connect them to the Southwest.
SALLY RUSK, ETHNIC STUDIES TEACHER: We're studying American history. We're looking at all contributions, and not just from the white dominant narrative.
HORNE: It bothers me when they're told that the United States is dominated by a white racist, imperialist power structure that's out to oppress them as Latinos.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): Are you teaching them that they really are the oppressed group?
ACOSTA: We don't have enough time to be victims. We need to change the world now. So there's no "pobrecito" stuff in here. There's no "poor me."
HORNE: They're teaching them that they live in occupied Mexico, that Arizona, California, New Mexico and some other states were taken from Mexico in 1848.
GUTIERREZ: California, New Mexico, Arizona, we're part of Mexico.
HORNE: Yes.
GUTIERREZ: So what's wrong with learning about that?
HORNE: Well, we teach that in history. But they teach them that this is occupied territory, that it should be given back.
GUTIERREZ: At any point are you teaching kids that this area ought to go back to Mexico?
RUSK: No. Absolutely not. This is the United States. What I'm trying to --
GUTIERREZ: Do any of the textbooks advocate that?
RUSK: No.
GUTIERREZ: How many of you want the Southwest to go back to Mexico?
How many of you want this area to remain in the United States and want to remain American citizens?
(voice-over): The superintendent told us it's not the school's business to promote ethnic pride.
HORNE: It should not divide kids up by race and then teach each race only its own background. That, I think, is contrary to the American value.
OLIVIA PAYNE, ETHNIC STUDIES STUDENT: What is it to be American? We're not just looking at skin color or anything. We're looking inside ourselves and opening our mouths and our voices. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's just part of the problem. Like, we've got to learn about this stuff and be aware about it.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): The law takes effect December 31st. What if those classes continue to go on past the 31st?
HORNE: We will inform them that we're withholding 10 percent of the budget of the school district. SARAH NAVARETTE, ETHNIC STUDIES STUDENT: People have the right to learn their history. And how could you say it's liberty and freedom in the United States of America without that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really don't want the class to be taken away.
UNIDENTIFIED STUDENTS (singing): God bless America.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Tucson, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BALDWIN: All right. I have a piece of video for you. Here's just the preview here.
You have to take a look at this. We have all been to football games
BALDWIN: All right, I have a piece of video for you. Here's a preview here. You have to look at this. We've all been at football games -- not like this. Football players in Canada left the field, took the fight to the stands. The whole thing caught on tape. Just watch it play out.
It happened during the final seconds of an Ontario football conference game. Look at these guys wailing on people in the stands, punching, kicking, tackling and swinging. Some of these guys taking their helmets off and waving them around. It went on for minutes.
Police say fans were heckling the visiting team. The players just snapped. That's the explanation, they snapped. The opposing coach said the fans were throwing bottles, though, hurling insults.
And get this. Because no one wants to press charges here despite this video we have, the police say they're dropping the investigation. What are they saying caused all of this? What are they calling it? "A consensual fight." Does that sounds like an oxymoron to you?
Military recruiters have opened their doors for gay applicants but the Obama administration wants to shut that down. Does this signal a change in the White House position on "don't ask, don't tell," and how is this reverberating on the campaign trail? That is next.
Also, what is worse, possibly worse than being trapped underground? I'm talking about the Chilean miners. How about an earthquake rumbling around you while you desperately wait for rescue? That's one of the stories you haven't heard but are going to hear it. Our reporter down there for 43 days is going to give me the back story of being down there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: The CNN Election Express racking up some miles as well. They're on the road. They should be. Hello, 13 days until Election Day. T.J. Holmes and the CNN Election Express crew pretty close to us here. Macon, Georgia, today. T.J. has been talking to voters and also some people looking for those votes there in Macon.
T.J., speaking of those folks, how are they feeling? Under the gun now, less than two weeks.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, lest than two weeks. Does this guy look stressed to you about it at all? This is Representative Jim Marshall. We're in his district, the eighth district of Georgia where some representatives think this spot is vulnerable. This is one where a Democrat like yourself is vulnerable.
Do you feel OK? Do you feel vulnerable right now?
REP. JIM MARSHALL, (D) GEORGIA: Oh, we're working hard. I mean, this race is going to be close, there's no doubt about it. Hopefully I come out on top. But I've had close races before. It's not like I haven't had this experience before.
HOLMES: This is Jim Marshall versus Austin Scott, but the name I hear most is Nancy Pelosi in this district. Now, are you a Nancy Pelosi supporter? Your ads don't seem to suggest you are.
MARSHALL: Well, if you take the legitimate vote rating agencies and look at what they say I'm shaded a little bit more toward the Republican side than the Democratic side since Nancy has been in office. So using that as the measure you would say, no, I'm not.
But really what I am is an independent just trying to figure out the best thing for the country, what's the best thing to do for my district. And what I find is we have pretty extreme folks on both sides of the aisle. It's not unique to the Democratic side of the aisle.
And we don't really have an American way. We sort of flip back and forth between the two parties when they're in control. It's either Democrat or Republican and have a hard time coming together.
HOLMES: You classify yourself as an independent. You still that "D" next to your name. Has Nancy Pelosi been a good speaker in your opinion?
MARSHALL: Well, I have been disappointed in the process that we've followed. It's not inclusive. We don't follow regular order like we should. And then I've been disappointed with some of the end results, and very disappointed with the health care bill.
We missed a huge opportunity to get control of health care costs and we simply can't afford what was done. So, frankly, I've had lots of disappointments as a result of a number of things that were done.
HOLMES: Would you vote for her again as speaker?
MARSHALL: No. I've already committed not to vote for Nancy as speaker again. HOLMES: It has been amazing how much she has been a part of this race. Even in your ad you said Pelosi didn't -- you didn't vote for the health care bill. But you said you didn't vote for Pelosi's $1 trillion health care bill. Why not say the president's health care bill?
MARSHALL: The campaign that's being run against me in this district is a campaign against Nancy Pelosi in this district. It's as if my opponent does not even know I'm in this race. He's running against somebody else altogether.
So our responses -- and in fact, a lot of this, it's not true, but a lot of this calls into question my character in a sense because it suggests that I am somebody other than who I portray myself to be. I'm independent. I look at issues one at a time. So when you reply to that, you have to reply to the attack. And the attack has to do with Nancy Pelosi.
HOLMES: Certainly something we know, you talk about people attacking who you are. You are a military guy. This is a military district here as well. Something going on now, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. You are against repealing "don't ask, don't tell." it's in the courts right now. Why? Why should gays, lesbians not be able to openly serve in the military?
MARSHALL: Historically that's the way the military has been. And most recently we agreed that we were going to give the military time to study this, to give us the military opinion concerning what the effect would be, whether it's cost or it's discipline or it's efficiency or what have you.
And we didn't do that. We essentially started out on one course, gave it a particular direction, and then we veered off that course. It's what caused me to vote no. And I'm disappointed by the decision.
Obviously, I'm not the judge, but I'm disappointed by the decision. I'm disappointed it hasn't been stayed. I hope that decision does get stayed by the circuit court and does get reversed and we follow military judgment with regard to whether or not this should be done.
HOLMES: But you're open to it as long as it's studied more? Not in the hands of the court.
MARSHALL: I'm open to following military judgment on this. That's what I want to do. I want to do what's in the best interest of the military and the men and women who are at risk on behalf of this country. I don't view this as a matter of individual right. I view this as a matter of the efficiency, effectiveness, and the safety of our military forces.
HOLMES: Representative Marshall, we're going to have to leave it there. Plenty more of course going to be coming even just two weeks away. Brooke, a lot more questions are going to be coming and a lot more campaigning to be done. He asked me before we went on you not going to keep me all day, I have to get back to my district. We'll let him get back to campaigning.
BALDWIN: Congressman, T.J., appreciate you both.
I want you take you to some live pictures just in. I have not seen these. We're going to look at these together, a lot of charred building and a whole lot of smoke. This is Wisconsin, from our affiliate WISN. This is a garden center still burning. It looks to have been burning quite some time here.
No surprise that this is a garden center because we're hearing fertilizer involved in these flames. There are evacuations under way at a nearby theater, motel, gas station. This is a four-alarm fire. You can see the firefighters attacking from the ground and from that big tall ladder there trying to put some of those flames out.
But unbelievable -- again, this is ft. Atkinson, Wisconsin. We're making some calls and finding out if anyone was in there, if they got out of there on time. Just in from Wisconsin there.
Also, a hateful vulgar march across the campus of this Ivy League university allegedly started as a fraternity stunt. Well, these days you know what happens. Somebody caught it on cell phone video and this thing has gone viral. It has sparked outrage, embarrassment. We're going to show it to you right after the break. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Parents, you have kids in college? Want to go to college? What I'm about to show you might shock you. It's disgusting and obscene, and might blow a massive hole in what is a dream to a whole lot of parents out there.
How would you like to send your parents to Yale? Prestigious, Ivy League, cost 50 grand a year. You know your kid will get an excellent education, have a greater shot at a successful career, maybe become a world leader. But then you see something like this dark shaky video that was posted on YouTube. We bleeped out the worst part. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: No means yes, yes means -- no means yes, yes means -- no means yes, yes means --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Chanting in the dark. Who might that be? Those are fraternity pledges at Yale University. And, yes, they are chanting about rape, marching on campus near a dorm used by freshman women.
The fraternity is Delta Kappa Epsilon. I'm talking presidents, athletes, actors, all of whom are members. And listen to this. This is from the fraternity constitution. One of the group's objectives is, quote, "The maintenance of gentlemanly dignity, self-respect, and morality in all circumstances."
Delta Kappa Epsilon's board of directors has ordered the chapter to suspend activities and put out a statement saying, quote, it "strongly condemns the actions taken by some members of our Yale chapter," and it calls what happened at Yale "deeply offensive."
Fraternity members apologized at this open forum held by the school, but some students said that's not enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANNAH ZEAVIN, YALE JUNIOR: It's not enough for me that the boys have apologized. This was a completely offensive and shocking thing to do in front of all -- you know almost all -- 10 out of 12 Yale freshman men and women live. And so something must be done further than an apology, more than an open forum, more than dialogue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Here's what the college Dean Mary Miller is saying. She issued a statement expressing outrage over the chant. She says "disciplinary action could be taken but it will be confidential."
The bottom line here, according to Miller, using this moment to educate. She says, quote, "What is important to recognize is that DKE has accepted responsibility, opening a new level of discourse on the issue of sexual harassment. This is an opportunity to seize."
One other thing kids have got to learn here, what goes on the Internet stays on the Internet. Odds are something you do will be uploaded for everybody to see. Cameras as we know -- I've got a camera on mire cell phone and you probably do as well. They're everywhere. Frederick Lane Internet privacy expert, the author of "American Privacy." Frederick, what's your re action to this?
FRED LANE, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN PRIVACY": Well, I'm not terribly surprised this has happened, Brooke. This is merely a precursor of what's going to be happening to students I think for years to come. You pointed out correctly that everybody is carrying a camera or cell phone right now. So we're just going to see more and more of these incidents as we go forward.
BALDWIN: I think it's important to point out and a lot of people tweeted me these are frat guys, hazing if that's what this was. This is nothing new. I read a couple of articles Yale daily news saying this chant is chanted before on campus. Women are offended obviously. But what's new is a cultural shift with cameras and the Internet. You agree?
LANE: I think it's more of a technological shift than a cultural one. My question is whether a technology shift will drive a cultural shift. For years students can do this kind of thing because there's no record of it. Now the question is because a record can be created, will they change their behavior?
BALDWIN: Do you think they will? It's an excellent question. I'm going to pose it back to you.
LANE: I think actually that they will end up changing their behavior for a couple of different reasons. For starters I'm sure they don't want their parents or grandparents seeing this kind of behavior. They're fortunate in this particular case that the video is so dark nobody can really be recognized.
And I think the lesson in Delaware is that things that you do as a student can come back to haunt you if you want to run for office someday.
BALDWIN: We often talk about the harmful effects of the Internet, cases of cyber bullying. We've seen multiple in recent weeks. In this case I was thinking about this. Thanks to the Internet perhaps in these videos -- you mentioned we don't see the faces, but perhaps in a sense by going virus this is holding these young men accountable and might there be a positive side to this technological shift?
LANE: Every time something like this happens, I think it's an opportunity for adults and for parents to educate the norms of behavior.
And honestly when I look at an incident like this, I don't think that the misbehavior stems from what they are doing right this minute. The misbehavior stems at some level from a failure to absorb lessons that they should have absorbed all through school, that these kinds of things --
BALDWIN: Hopefully it will make a difference. It's offensive and harms people. Hopefully they will learn from this and hopefully others out there won't do it.
LANE: Absolutely. And the more we can use these as teachable moments the better off we are.
BALDWIN: Absolutely, educate, educate, educate. Excellent point. Fred, thank you.
Here's a story a lot of you are talking about today. Anita Hill stood by claims that Clarence Thomas sexually harassed her. That was 19 years ago. So why would she be asked to apologize after two decades? The controversy is trending on Twitter after this bizarre voicemail from Thomas's wife. Those details are coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I feel like this is something my mother would say to me -- it's never too late to say "I'm sorry," or is it. Well, a phone call to Anita Hill from Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas's wife Ginny is all over social media today. It's definitely trending today in Twitter.
Here is what happened. Mrs. Thomas reportedly called Anita Hill. She left a message asking for an apology for accusing her husband for sexual harassment nearly two decades ago. Here's what she allegedly said in that message she left for Hill. Let me read this for you. She says, quote, "Good morning, Anita Hill. It's Ginny Thomas. I just wanted to reach across the airwaves and the years to ask you to consider something. I would love for you to consider an apology some time, and some full explanation of why you did what you did with my husband."
She goes on "So give it some thought and certainly pray about this and come to understand what you did what you did. OK, have a good day." End quote.
Now, what was that? A prank, perhaps? Was it Mrs. Clarence Thomas asking for an apology 19 years after the testimony? We all watched -- it captured the nation's attention. It threatened to derail Justice Thomas's confirmation.
So we asked Anita Hill for a statement. Here's what she said, quote, "I certainly thought the call was inappropriate. I have no intention to apologizing because I testified truthfully about my experience and I stand by that testimony."
Our reporters did indeed reach out to Mrs. Thomas as well. She did confirm she called Anita Hill and called for her request for apology. She called it an "olive branch" and she meant no offense by that.
This is what people are tweeting. "Clarence Thomas, it is time for you to apologize to Anita Hill." "Why are we talking about Anita Hill? Wasn't that case settled 20 years ago? Talk about holding a grudge." And comedian Seth Myers, you know this guy. "I can only imagine that Ginny Thomas is way behind on her to-do list."
And that's the latest on this thing, 19 years later.
Here's something you've got to see. We've been talking about this video all day long. A 300-pound chimp holds police at bay. Why did America's most wanted chimp -- what did he do wrong? Look at him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: I want to talk about the Chile story. I know we all watched all 33 of the guys get rescued. But today we're learning even more. The Chilean miner story, more dramatic, more compelling we could have imagined.
In our next hour we will tell you about what they did in a secret room, no one had heard about this until today, and how they coped with an earthquake that threatened their lifeline with the rescuers, inside just crumbling. We'll talk to our reporter who was there for 43 days. It be an awesome discussion.
Also, 13 days and counting, how are the candidates making political news today. Wolf Blitzer has that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BALDWIN: It's 13 days to go until Election Day. CNN has all of the latest political news with "The Best Political Team on Television." Of course CNN = Politics, and Wolf Blitzer is at the CNNpolitics.com desk. Wolf, what do you have?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": We're following it very closely. As you can say, Brooke, only 13 days to go. The vice president Joe Biden is out in Nevada right now campaigning for Harry Reid who's in a neck-and-neck battle with Sharron Angle. The vice president is making it clear he wants Harry Reid to remain the Senate majority leader. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You can stop now, and it's not going to be two more years before we get back on the road to recovery, it's going to be two more general elections.
So, ladies and gentlemen, we must keep Harry Reid as majority leader of the United States Senate. So god bless you.
(APPLAUSE)
A lot is at stake. We owe too much to our children. So get up, Nevada, get up and go out and knock on doors for Harry Reid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joe Biden clearly excited. This is a neck-and-neck race right now in Nevada with only 13 days to go.
There's an interesting new poll in New York State, Brooke, as well, a Marist poll, which asks if voters want to see the mayor, Mayor Bloomberg, run for president of the United States in 2012 -- 64 percent of registered voters in New York City do not want Mayor Bloomberg to run as an independent third-party candidate in 2012.
There's been some speculation about that. They also by the way do not want to see Eliot Spitzer run for New York City mayor in 2013 -- 62 percent of voters in New York City think that's not a good idea. As you know, he's the co-host of "PARKER SPITZER," which now airs on CNN every night at -- every weeknight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Finally, I had a chance to sit down just a little while ago with former U.S. Ambassador Joe Wilson and his wife, the former CIA spy Valerie Plame. They're out promoting a new movie called "Fair Game" which deals with what happened to them when she was outed as a CIA spy during the Bush administration.
Listen to this little excerpt from the interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Let's talk about some of the people involved. You mentioned some of them. And I want both of you to give me your quick reaction when I mention their names, what you think about them. Dick Cheney.
VALERIE PLAME, FORMER CIA AGENT: I think he has an extremely dark view of the world. And his idea of the 1 percent doctrine, which was if there's a 1 percent chance of a terrorist attack or something affecting our national security, we're going to do everything to prevent it, and that sounds good, except what it really means is, it undermines the very values that we as a country hold dear.
JOSEPH WILSON, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: Traitor.
BLITZER: Scooter Libby?
PLAME: I think he's someone who was doing everything he could to protect his boss, Vice President Cheney, and he was left out to dry.
WILSON: Traitor.
BLITZER: Well, you say that Scooter Libby is a traitor and Dick Cheney is a traitor. That's a serious word.
WILSON: Absolutely.
BLITZER: And you know, as a diplomat, what that means.
WILSON: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Betrayed the United States.
WILSON: They betrayed the national security of our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: That's just for starters.
The full interview, Brooke, we're going to air it in our 6:00 p.m. Eastern hour here in THE SITUATION ROOM. There's some good back- and-forth. By the way, this new movie comes out in about a week or so. Naomi Watts plays Valerie Plame. Sean Penn plays Joe Wilson. That movie is getting ready to be seen all over the country and indeed all over the world.
BALDWIN: I love all those political movies set in Washington. They're fascinating.
BLITZER: Yes.
BALDWIN: But let's go back to Washington real quickly, Wolf. Then I have got let you go.
You mentioned Eliot Spitzer. We know he didn't commission the poll. But he's been pretty coy about his future political aspirations. Will we continue seeing him each and every night here at CNN at 8:00 Eastern or might he run for mayor anyway?
BLITZER: I don't think he's going to run for political office any time soon. What happens a few years down the road, anyone can guess. But I suspect he's had enough of politics for now. He's probably very happy co-hosting "PARKER SPITZER" at 8:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
BALDWIN: Pretty good gig.
Wolf Blitzer, you have a pretty good gig as well. Thank you.
We're going to get another political update in about half-an- hour. And you can always log on to the Internet, hop on CNNPolitics.com or Twitter @PoliticalTicker.
