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What the Week: Chris Coons Squares off With Christine O'Donnell; NPR Fires Juan Williams

Aired October 23, 2010 - 22:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama led a Democratic Get out the Vote effort today visiting his fifth state in four days. He was at the University of Minnesota to stump for Mark Dayton who's running for governor. On the Republican side, former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was stumping for Republican candidates in Florida. With elections only ten days away, she urged 2000 GOP activists to keep working until the last minute to guarantee wins.

I'm Don Lemon. "What the Week," begins right now.

PETE DOMINICK, CNN HOST: It's been six days since the Obamas hit the campaign trail to rescue endangered Democrats. Four days since a federal appeals panel put "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" back in action. And one day since riot squads launched the latest tank of tear gas against French protesters. And it's only been 12 minutes since I got a damn campaign Robo-call on my cell phone. Welcome to WHAT THE WEEK. Hit it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: The fight for control of Congress is heading into the final round.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The clock is absolutely clicking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats are on defense everywhere. More than 100 Democratic-held seats are now up for grabs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile in the Senate, the GOP needs to capture ten Democratic seats.

HARRIS: President Obama and the First Lady Michelle hitting the campaign trail.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: And I know that we can keep this movement going.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah Palin fuels up the Tea Party Express for a cross-country road tour.

SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: You are winning, Joe Sestak!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Pelosi in Pittsburgh trying to save her own job. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE SPEAKER: We will win this election.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A massive investigation was launched into the nation's biggest banks and their foreclosure practices.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The economic crisis has taken a surprising turn in France, where the government wants to raise the retirement age of 60 to 62.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In some places, the anger turn violent.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They lit cars on fire and the police responded with tear gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government wants to bring back "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" pending an appeal and really pending a decision by Congress to repeal it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And for victims of gay bullying -- a message.

PROTESTER: It gets better.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It gets better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINICK: So that was the hard news this week. But the sound bite everyone is still talking about came from a radio debate between two Senate hopefuls in the blandest state in the union, Delaware. Sorry.

Democrat Chris Coons, the Yale educated lawyer and current favorite in the polls squared off Tuesday with a tea party, not a witch Christine O'Donnell. In what should have been an uneventful debate, instead turned into a viral video sensation after O'Donnell got a lesson on constitutional law 101 in front of a room full of wannabe lawyer that widen their law school. The lawyer nerds nearly fell off their seats in fits of laughter after this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINE O'DONNELL, (R) DELAWARE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Where in the constitution is the separation of church and state?

(LAUGHTER)

CHRIS COONS, (D) DELAWARE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: It's an -- no, an excellent point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on, hold on, please.

O'DONNELL: You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?

COONS: Government shall make no establishment of religion. O'DONNELL: That's in the First Amendment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINICK: Oh! Just another kick in the teeth for the O'Donnell campaign who'd been fighting off "Saturday Night Live" parodies and Internet slam fests for weeks now. But here's the question no ones thought to ask. Was Christine O'Donnell right?

OK, this is the First Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Now the courts have indeed interpreted that to include a separation of church and state. So while O'Donnell might be technically right when she says the phrase isn't expressly written into the constitution, for all intents and purposes, the point goes to Coons. But listen to what Christine O'Donnell said in her own defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: I'm sorry, I didn't bring my constitution with me. Fortunately, senators don't have to memorize the constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINICK: That's a good point. I'll be the first to admit I had to look all this stuff up myself. So should senators have the constitution tattooed to their brains? Does anybody really know what's in the constitution? I crashed your lunch break to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINICK: Hey, can I crash your lunch?

Hey, guys, can I crash your lunch?

May I crash your lunch, ladies? Hello.

What's your favorite amendment?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The one that repeals prohibition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The right to bear arms.

DOMINICK: The right to bear arms, which is what you're doing right now. I see.

Is there anything you'd like to take from the constitution, take out of it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Definitely.

DOMINICK: What would you like to take out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to repeal the 16th amendment.

DOMINICK: Sixteen is Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on income.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's the income tax law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that's a crappy law.

DOMINICK: You don't like that one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't like that one.

DOMINICK: How familiar should congressmen and congresswomen be with the U.S. constitution? Should they memorize it so they just be really familiar? Or is it not super important.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's super important and they probably should be tested every five years just like a driver's license.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The constitution, when you read it, it's very short. Absolutely, it's basic to what they do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think anyone that's running for a political office should understand what's going on with the constitution and laws and what they're trying --

DOMINICK: Continue to talk. I like your opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think you like the hair.

DOMINICK: Oh, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's necessarily, like to get elected you should have to know because you're supposed to be representative of your constituency and we're all kind of stupid. But you should learn it. You should be one of the smartest people in your constituency.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINICK: Well, if you're going to live in this country and especially if you're going to run for office, you have to know the constitution. At least the Bill of Rights. So feed your brain by going to Archives.gov and click on constitution.

All right. Well, thousands of scientists over hundreds of years of research, but apparently most of you believe Glenn Beck, huh? Yes. We're talking apes and the evolution of man on the other side, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOMINICK: OK, there's this guy Glenn Beck, a few days ago, he called Evolution ridiculous. Take a listen --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, HOST: I'm not God so I don't know how God creates. I don't think we came from monkeys. I think that's ridiculous. I haven't seen the half-monkey, half-person yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINICK: Half-monkey, half-person. Nobody has ever insinuated that's what evolution is. And ridiculous? The National Academy of Sciences has says there's no debate about evolution because, quote, "The concept has withstood extensive testing by many thousands of scientists for more than a century," which brings us to our segment, "You are Here." And my weekly question, how do we get here?

And by here, I don't mean how do we get here from primates. I mean, how do we get here to a time when people like Glenn Beck and these 2008 presidential candidates still don't believe in evolution. OK, well let's go back to 1859. Charles Darwin, he publishes his book on the "Origin of Species." Remember? The one that says humans evolved from a lower species over time through natural selection. You know the survival of the fittest. Well, the same thing, by the way, goes for plants and animals.

Anyway, it doesn't take long for the scientific community to embrace the theory. All right? Here it is. Pretty simple. The teachers in U.S. public schools start adding it to their curriculums. And then, of course, the people who don't believe start getting louder, and several states start trying to ban the teaching of evolution. The courts get involved. Remember, the Scopes Monkey Trial? And eventually a case much like the scopes case makes it way to the Supreme Court. All right?

In 1986, the high court rules that it's unconstitutional for the state of Arkansas to ban teaching evolution. So basically, the evolution-haters, well, they are shot down. But clearly they don't go away. In fact, recent polling shows that less than half of all Americans believe in Darwin's theory of evolution, which means if you do the math, the majority of Americans theoretically agree with this guy - yes. I guess the question is, do you trust guys like me or Glenn Beck who have TV and radio shows, or do you trust the thousands of scientists I talked about a moment ago?

Well, another tough topic, racism and bigotry. Why is it so damn hard for us to talk about it? I took my cameras out to ask you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOMINICK: So until about 6:00 Thursday night, this segment was going to be about America's crazy addiction to cell phones. But then NPRs Juan Williams lost his job. On a news program, Williams said this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I'm not a bigot. You know, the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think you know they're identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried, I get nervous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOMINICK: Public radio canned him. Maybe to you it's an irrational fear, or maybe it's something that you can actually relate to. I can tell you this. I work with a really intelligent group of people, really unique. And there's even a guy named Ed, our producer. He's in there, too. But when we started talking about it, we really were arguing. And I thought it was going to end up with a horse's head in my bed. It got really heated. So we scrapped the smart phones idea and we decided to take this topic out to you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINICK: Why would you be afraid of someone in Muslim garb?

You're a brown-skinned guy, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tan.

DOMINICK: All right, tan. Whatever, I don't know what your pigment is. I'm more of a green. I'm so pale, I look like a goblin. But anyway, do you think people look at you when you go to the airport?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I'll be honest with you.

DOMINICK: Please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People probably do look at me. I look at people, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are comfortable with other folks that they look like.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I think it falls in the category of freedom of speech. You know, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those stereotypes are out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You walk down the street and you see somebody that looks different from you, I think you do in your head have a -- you think something. There's something that pops in your head immediately, but you don't necessarily need to say it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to tell you, the shortcomings of coming to a new culture is that people not necessarily understand where you're coming from. They think if you speak with an accent, then you think with an accent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you ignore your differences, you're going to have greater differences and have no more hostility towards each other if you don't talk about it. (END VIDEOTAPE)

DOMINICK: Well, I'm lucky tonight because my good friend Tim Wise is here to talk about this. He is hands down one of the country's most well-known anti-racist activist, speakers and writers.

Tim, short but not so simple question, how do we stop the fear, Tim?

TIM WISE, ANTI-RACISTS SPEAKER AND WRITER: Well, number one, we have to recognize that it's irrational. I mean, to generalize about 1.5 billion Muslims on the basis of what 19 Muslims did on 9/11 is ignorance on stilts. It makes no more sense than if we were to generalize about Catholics and Christians based on what Tim McVeigh did, which interestingly is a point that Juan Williams was trying to make in a latter portion of that interview which NBR apparently ignored. He makes the admission that he has this bias, which I think is a matter of honesty on his part. And then he goes on to try to say, you know, we need to be careful not to generalize. So in other words, he was admitting the bias and then talking about the problem with the bias. To me, that's exactly as an anti-racism, anti-bias expert and educator, what we need to be doing.

Acknowledging that we have been conditioned to have some of these beliefs and stereotypes, but that if we own it, if we put it out there, if acknowledge it, we can challenge it. To me, that's what we need to be doing.

DOMINICK: Now, you also -- let's be clear. You're against the firing of Juan Williams.

WISE: Yes.

DOMINICK: You came out against this?

WISE: Absolutely. I mean, a lot of what he said, I think, in terms of, yes, we are at war with Islam or something, agreeing with O'Reilly, I think that part was a problem. But the idea that we would fire him for acknowledging his own bias to me makes absolutely no sense.

All the research on this and any of us who study the subject know it. All the research says, A, we all have been conditioned to have these biases so the vast majority of us will. But, B, if we acknowledge it, we can actually challenge it and prevent ourselves potentially from acting on the basis of it. So the idea that we're going to in any way help the cause of anti-bias, or we're going to reduce anti-Muslim hysteria by not talking about the fact that this conditioning is real is nonsense. What NPR did was not just a disservice to Juan Williams, in that regard, it was a disservice to the conversation we need to be having about racial, religious and other forms of bias.

DOMINICK: That's one of the things we talk about out there on the segment I went out on the street. And we talk about it in our homes. When and where can we talk about these issues? If you're going to be afraid that if you say something on television or radio where it's being recorded, you're going to lose your job, we'll never have the conversation, although we do have the conversation in the privacy of our own homes and sometimes even at work.

Tim, where and when is it appropriate or is it always appropriate and should we not necessarily be afraid of the repercussions of our honesty even if it does seem ignorant?

WISE: Well, I think we need to be honest whenever possible. Obviously, there are moments where you don't want to be sitting across from somebody you just met who happens to be a person of color if you're white or happens to be Muslim if you're not and say, I'm really scared of people like you. I mean, that's not maybe the best time to do it. But I do think it is important for us to admit -- the way I say it is advertising works.

If we have been exposed to product placement 10, 15, 20 times so that we'll go out and buy a tennis shoe or a type of toothpaste that someone wants us to buy, how much easier is it for us to internalize biases that we have been hit with in media, from parents, from school, from peers, year after year, month after month, day after day?

I think we have to acknowledge our humanity in that regard, but then problematize the conditioning. It's not OK to say, yes, I've got these biases and what of it, they're fine. They're not fine. But the only way we're going to get a hold of them, the only way we're actually going to challenge them and diminish them is if we own them, admit the problem and then try to work together both individually and collectively to make the place better.

DOMINICK: Yes, let's get into that for just a quick second, Tim, because if I don't live in a very diverse place, if everybody looks like me and acts like me, worships like me and then I travel or I go to a place that has more diversity and all I know about the person that I meet that's different from me is what I've learned in the media, on cable news and movies and TV, what am I supposed to think? How do I condition myself to be open to think otherwise?

WISE: Well, I think the way we have to do it, you know, is to think about all the experiences we've had that were bad with people like ourselves. I mean, I hear these stories a lot. People who try to rationalize their racism let's say against black folks or against Latinos by saying, oh well, I was in third grade and a black kid beat me up.

Well, how many of us who have got in fights or arguments or had bad experiences with someone of a different race or ethnicity had also had dozens of those experiences with other folks who were white? How many times have we been ripped off by white landlords or treated badly by a white store clerk or treated badly by a white boss? My guess is for every time that we've had a bad experience with the so-called other, we've had several with people who were just like us. If we will keep that in mind and realize that what we're doing is we're generalizing when it's someone different, but we're not generalizing when it's someone like ourselves, then we can catch ourselves in the act of doing that and we can prevent acting on the basis of that bias which is to say, we can prevent ourselves from actually discriminating.

DOMINICK: To be fair, I have had equal opportunity beatings in high school. I think I had my head put in a toilet by every race --

WISE: Absolutely.

DOMINICK: -- and gender, Tim.

WISE: Absolutely.

DOMINICK: What can we learn from this? Is this a teaching moment? Are we making too big of a deal of these firings? Shouldn't we be talking about them? I mean, that's why I wanted you to come on the show tonight to discuss this. I feel like this can be a teaching moment.

WISE: It can be. I mean, we've got to talk about anti-Islamic bias. I mean, clearly, anti-Muslim bias and prejudice is a real problem. But we're not going to make it go away by acting as if somehow people don't have that. And we're not going to make it go away in the case of the folks at NPR by getting rid of Juan Williams as if to say, it's OK for those people over at Fox to express their biases, but God forbid our nice, white liberal organization that we would have that. So we've got to exclude them.

The reality is all the data on this says that whether you're liberal or conservative, right or left, the vast majority of us in the United States -- and it's probably true around the world -- have internalized biases against all types of so-called out group, minority groups whether it's racial, ethnic, religious, sexual, et cetera.

And so if we want to deal with that, let's deal with it. If we don't, fine. But let's not act as if by excluding the Juan Williams's of the world from the conversation that we're going to actually further the cause of equity and justice because we're not.

DOMINICK: But it should be OK, though, right, Tim, to have these feelings and not be labeled a racist, the "R" word or even a bigot, right? I mean, if you're having these feelings, it doesn't mean that you are actually a racist or a bigot as long as you acknowledge them, right?

WISE: Right. Well, I try to separate the act or the thought from the individual. A lot of people -- now think about it, most of us have told a lie in our lives. Most of us have cheated on a test in school. That doesn't mean that we are liars and cheaters at our core, right? There's a difference between having this sort of core character flaw and doing something that's really messed up. Most of us are good people, but good people can do messed-up things. Good people who are not racist or sexist or classist or homophobic at their core can still say and do things that are racist or sexist or homophobic. That's what we need to focus on is the behavior instead of this idea that we've got a bunch of horrible, awful people.

Most racism is perpetrated by people who are not horrible, awful people. They're good people who don't even realize the way they perpetuate the kinds of biases, the kinds of stereotypes and the kinds of injustices that they do.

DOMINICK: As always, Tim, thanks for the lesson. I appreciate it, man.

WISE: You bet.

DOMINICK: Always great talking to you. TimWise.org, by the way.

Forget the expression "man up." How about "woman up." There's a 20-year-old student leaving the dudes in the dust this week. Is she just plain awesome, or is she crazy? We'll see on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOMINICK: Each week, people do great things. Sometimes it makes the news, sometimes it doesn't. Now I'd love my wife and two daughters but I only host a radio show and if I'm lucky keep doing this TV show. So I'd like to give a shoutout to the people this week that do things that make them way, way better than me.

This young lady, her name is Marisol Valles Garcia. She is a 20- year-old college student and she's also the new chief of police in a Mexican drug-ridden town in the border state of Chihuahua. Amid threats of violence, she was the only person to accept the job. She says she's just tired of everyone being afraid. Coincidentally, I'm actually afraid of Chihuahuas. Marisol, you are way better than me.

Now, this man, his name is George Vujnovich. This week he was awarded the bronze star for his mission 66 years ago to rescue more than 500 soldiers shot down over Nazi occupied, Serbia. I'm still trying to save the princess in Mario Brothers. No kidding, George, you are way, way better than me.

Look at this man. What a canvas. Let's take an ad out of that skull. This young man, he is 5 years old. His name is Magnus Knudsen. And this week he donated all the money collected at his birthday party to help families in need. When I was 5 years old, the only thing I think I donated to was the sandbox in my kindergarten class. You heard it. You are way better than me, Magnus.

And lastly, Clark Howard. You know this guy from our sister network, HLN. This week, he donated $30,000 to help soldier Michael Walker rebuild his home after it was burnt down. Clark Howard, Michael Walker, you guys are both way better than me this week.

All right, well, our time is almost done here but we'd be remiss if we didn't look ahead to the week before us. Perhaps nothing will be more talked about than -- drum roll, please -- my good friends, Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert venture into our nation's capital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART: Tonight, I announce the rally to restore sanity.

(END VIDEO CLIP) DOMINICK: All right. Well, I actually did used to warm up the audience for "The Daily Show," and look how far I've come. So next Saturday, "The Daily Show" host and my old boss Steven Colbert have paired up to rally to restore sanity and their march to keep fear alive into one massive event on the mall. And I'll be there for CNN covering the whole entire thing, including the sure to happened Porta Potty shortage.

Also next week, if you think you've seen too many political ads already, you ain't seen nothing yet. We're in the home stretch. Just ten days to midterm elections. And a non-partisan research group estimates independent groups have spent over $500 million this year to help candidates nationwide. Wow! Where is the mute button, folks?

Well, that will do it for me, but thanks for watching, everybody. See you next week. And by the way, my name is Pete Dominick, and I approve of this show.