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Tax Debate Dominates Agenda; FAA Loses Track of 100,000 Planes; Learning From Home; Verdict in Elizabeth Smart Case

Aired December 10, 2010 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, we're back at the top of the hour here now.

Hello to you all. I'm T.J. Holmes, in for my good friend Tony Harris.

We'll tell you what's happening in this hour of the NEWSROOM. Here are some of the people behind today's stories.

We're talking about unfinished business in Washington. Tax cuts, will they, will they not pass? We're digging deeper on how things left undone in Washington will affect you now and into the next year.

Also danger in the sky, what the FAA does not know about the more than 100,000 planes out there, how that could possibly pose a national security threat.

Also, could simply thinking about eating this holiday season and maybe eating that holiday chocolate, could that actually be as satisfying as actually eating it? Yes, just thinking about it. Well, one of the top stories online shows how obsessions with holiday goodies could actually help you eat less. You may want to hear that one.

But let's get you started with our top story now.

The fight over extending those Bush-era tax cuts is dominating this lame-duck session of Congress right now. The clock, as you know, is winding down. They have got to get this done by the end of the year, or everybody's taxes are going to go up. But there are some issues getting left behind.

Among the unfinished business, gays in the military. Yesterday the Senate rejected an effort to open debate on repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Also this hour, gay rights groups holding a rally. They are urging lawmakers to try and try again, but it doesn't look like anything's going to get done. Again, a rally expected today.

We're keeping a close eye on what's happening there.

Also stalled, a bill to provide health benefits for 9/11 first responders. You've heard a lot about this one. It's been held up for years and years. And, well, Democrats have failed to stop a Republican filibuster to begin debate on that bill in the Senate. So now it appears nothing's going to get done on that front.

Also, the DREAM Act. It would have offered a path to citizenship for some illegal immigrants who entered the U.S. as children.

Now, for more on what is and isn't getting done, let's bring in our congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar, and also our White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux.

Ladies, thank you both for being here. Good to see you both.

Brianna, let me start with you. We're wondering, where do we go from here in this tax debate? Where do we go?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Senate is going to pick this up, T.J., first, and there seems to be more Senate Democrats for sure than House Democrats who have warmed to this deal that was struck between the White House and Senate Republicans. So we're going to be seeing a key vote Monday afternoon, but the big issue remains those House Democrats who, yesterday, voted within their caucus, within their group, to say, you know what? We really hate this deal and we're not going to bring it up on the floor.

A lot of them, of course, as we talked last hour, T.J., have an issue with extending those lower tax rates for wealthy Americans, coupled with that estate tax, which is an inheritance tax exemption if for inheritances all the way up to $5 million. They feel like it's a giveaway to the wealthy, and they say they just can't stomach it, even though the White House is saying, in House Democrats' words, take it or leave it. Some of them saying, you know what? We'll leave it.

HOLMES: All right.

Suzanne, what's giving the president so much confidence right now that this is going to get done in the package that he did negotiate with Republicans?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: T.J., we're already seeing some differences, some possible changes along the edges that, as Brianna had mentioned, that is pleasing some of the Democrat senators, those on the Senate side, 11 energy tax credits that have been added on.

I spoke with Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary, earlier today in a briefing, and he says the White House is pleased about that. And they believe that they're going to have this package with additional goodies. They're not talking about any fundamental changes, but additional goodies that they're going to pass in the Senate side, on to the House, and that there's going to be enough political pressure from the revolting Democrats for them ultimately to hold their noses and go ahead and pass this thing, because they believe that they don't want to be -- these Democrats don't want to be held responsible for tax increases come January. So the president is still expressing confidence and resolve that he does think, fundamentally, this is going to get through. HOLMES: All right. And I'm hoping you are not going to get hit by a dump truck as you're standing there, Suzanne. A lot going on -- yes. We could miss that, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: There's construction out here, T.J.

HOLMES: Yes, clearly that is construction.

I'm going to go back to Brianna right now just because I'm concerned for your safety.

But, Brianna, let me go back to you for a second.

She talked about an additional package of goodies, you know, throwing in a couple of other different tax credits and things like that. But the bulk of it, the meat of it, was about whether or not people making over $250,000 should get that tax break extended.

Are those goodies really going to be enough for these Democrats on Capitol Hill?

KEILAR: Well, certainly the idea is going to be to try to get some sweeteners. And that is what some House -- well, we should say, T.J., for some House Democrats, perhaps dozens of them, no, it's not going to be enough.

They don't like the idea that those lower tax rates were extended. And then you throw the estate tax on there, and they say no way. But for some of them, they are going to be looking for sweeteners.

And there is some -- sort of like back-channel discussions going on between House Democrats and Senate Democrats in the White House. This is what some House Democrats are looking for.

The tax exemption for the green energy jobs, that's something that is going to be palatable, obviously, to some Democrats in the House. They're also going to be looking for other things that just generally they can point to and say, you know what? This does something for the middle class.

And Suzanne brings up a really interesting point. When the Senate goes forward, and assuming they're able to pass this compromise, that is a ton of pressure on House Democrats to, one, extend those tax cuts, but also to not let those unemployment benefits for millions of Americans expire.

HOLMES: All right.

Brianna Keilar for us.

Suzanne, I was told you can't hear us anymore. A lot going on.

MALVEAUX: I got you.

HOLMES: Oh, you do have me now. MALVEAUX: I got you. I can hear you. They're mixing cement behind me, though, so I'm going to talk really, really loud. OK?

HOLMES: Please do.

My question to you was, in between pouring cement, was what was going to happen today. The president kind of bringing in a former president who has been there and done that. What do we make of this meeting between he and President Clinton?

MALVEAUX: It's going to be a pretty important meeting, T.J. This is a meeting, actually, that we're told by White House officials, was scheduled a couple weeks ago, after the shellacking that Obama got.

You know that President Clinton has a lot really in common with President Obama now. President Clinton endured his own shellacking back in '94. He was able to work with Republicans. He had some arm- twisting to do with Democrats when it came to, like, the North American Free Trade Agreement, welfare reform, but obviously he pulled it out, able to work with Republicans, but beat them to be a second- term president.

That's what this president wants to learn from him. He wants to know how to do it and, how do I move forward here? So it's going to be a pretty important meeting between these two.

HOLMES: OK. Suzanne, we appreciate you hanging tight there. I don't guess you saw one of our competitor's logos on the side of that dump truck there by chance, but we do appreciate it.

MALVEAUX: Our competitors have to deal with this, too. Believe me. This is their backdrop as well. So it's all happening behind all of us right now.

HOLMES: Well, we appreciate you. It's live TV. We appreciate you hanging there.

Brianna Keilar, we appreciate you, in a much quieter setting up on Capitol Hill.

Ladies, thank you so much. I'll see you both real soon.

Lets me tell you what some of our viewers are saying about this right now.

Heather is writing into us, "The House is in rebellion over principle. The Senate is playing obvious games. I have never been so frustrated, angry, even with Bush. And I feel like I'm watching our government and country slowly begin to go on a pathway to its own destruction."

Also, Leroy has this to say about the Senate's rejection of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" repeal: "OK, so they voted it down. They should have. Now everyone wants another vote. If they vote to stop it, will we have a third vote, then a fourth? No wonder they can't get anything done voting on everything three, four times."

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, the FAA has lost track of key data on more than 100,000 private and commercial planes. That's about a third of the aircraft in the U.S. The fear is that the gap could be exploited by drug traffickers and even terrorists.

Our homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, joins us now with the details.

Jeanne, how did they realize they were lacking in some of this paperwork in the first place?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, they've been aware of it for some time, and they're taking steps to correct this gap in record-keeping which may have made it easier for drug traffickers and even terrorists to use aircraft.

According to the Federal Aviation Administration, there are about 357,000 private aircraft in the U.S., but registration for about one- third of them -- that's about 119,000 -- appear to be inaccurate, out of date. Why is that? Because until now, owners have only had to register their aircraft once at the time of purchase.

They've been required to report changes like an aircraft sale, or the scrapping of an aircraft, but many simply have not been doing it. As a result, there are a lot of bad records.

Now the FAA is taking corrective action. A new rule will require all civil aircraft to be registered over the next three years. And after that, owners will have to renew the registration every three years.

It's comparable to what we all do with our automobiles. Owners who do not comply will have their registrations canceled and the planes will not be able to fly legally -- T.J.

HOLMES: Now, how many examples were they able to show where, you know, this has happened over time or this caused some confusion, necessarily? I'm sure there have been some incidents even with some drug traffickers. But are there any examples they can point to that we know of where this did have an issue of homeland security?

MESERVE: Well, nobody's putting out numbers along those lines. But here's one example that I've dealt with a couple times, which is we have closed airspace over Washington, D.C. And when aircraft comes into this airspace, one of the first things law enforcement does is run that tail number to try and determine who the owner is.

Now, that won't tell them definitively who is flying the plane, but hopefully it will give them some guidance and some way to initially at least begin to assess that threat. If they don't have the correct registration information on file, they can't take that step, they don't have that tool to use. So that's one example of why it's important.

Now, is this new push to re-register all the aircraft, is that going to eliminate the risk? No, it won't do that, because it isn't hard to put a different tail number on an aircraft. And so drug traffickers, for instance, still will likely do that to try and throw law enforcement off their trail.

Back to you, T.J.

HOLMES: All right. Jeanne Meserve for us.

Jeanne, we appreciate you, as always. Thanks so much.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: Well, many experts out there and parents saying that the education system in this country, in crisis. And a new study suggests that more and more families are deciding it's better to try homeschooling. We'll talk to one family next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, more than 1.5 million kids are homeschooled in the U.S. That's according to the Department of Education. Studies say it's on the rise, especially among minorities.

Last week we introduced you to the Leaks. That's a Georgia family whose children are homeschooled. We continue our conversation today in our "What Matters" segment.

Here's Fredricka Whitfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANESSA LEAK, HOMESCHOOLS HER CHILDREN: Trace it and then keep on going.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): James and Vanessa Leak chose to home school their oldest daughter, Constance, three years ago, when her school was on the verge of losing accreditation.

LEAK: Today, we're going to use a different system of measuring.

WHITFIELD: Vanessa now teaches three of her children, Constance, James and Judah (ph), while also looking after her youngest son, Jeremiah.

LEAK: Good morning, Constance.

Our typical day would be the kids would wake up, get themselves dressed and come downstairs. We'll have breakfast. After breakfast, we clear that table because our homeschooling is done right at the table.

WHITFIELD: Studies show that homeschooling is on the rise among minorities. More than 15 percent of homeschooled families are not white. For the Leaks, it's the ability to give their children individual attention that attracted them to this method of schooling.

JAMES LEAK, WIFE HOMESCHOOLS THEIR CHILDREN: The American school system is so much further behind the other global areas, and in particular when it comes to the math and science. And I believe that in the homeschooling environment, that you can begin to structure the classes to really emphasize those fundamentals.

V. LEAK: OK. I want you guys to focus on your oddball addition problems.

WHITFIELD: But whether students can learn the same social skills outside the classroom is concern for some.

STEVEN PERLOW, CHILD AND FAMILY PSYCHOLOGIST: Homeschooled children sometimes miss out on some of the opportunities to calibrate themselves against mainstream culture and their peers in school.

WHITFIELD: The Leaks are aware of such concerns.

V. LEAK: If you're going to make any impact on the community, you have to have social skills. You have to be able to know how to interact with people of different ages. This is actually their first year that we've put them in sports, extracurricular activity, not only for exercise reasons, but also for their social skills.

PERLOW: The way that I think about homeschooling is when it's done right, it's really just another alternative method of schooling. When it's done wrong, there are problems associated with it. We can say the same thing about a school system.

V. LEAK: We're definitely not set in our ways to continue this through high school. I think we're just going to take it, you know, year by year to see how it goes.

WHITFIELD: Fredricka Whitfield, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: And read more stories that matter to all of us. Pick up the latest edition of "Essence" magazine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: We're coming up on the bottom of the hour.

And Prince has been making some rare public appearances lately. And also, Michael Jackson has a new video out?

Egypt Sherrod, the founder of the blog "Egypt Said So," joins me now from New York.

Egypt, how are you doing, dear lady?

EGYPT SHERROD, FOUNDER, "EGYPT SAID SO": Hey, T.J. How are you? HOLMES: I am all right today. I'm always excited about any Prince news. He's probably my all-time favorite artist. Michael Jackson probably certainly in the top of my list as well.

So, who should we start with today?

SHERROD: They go back and forth.

HOLMES: Yes. Let's go with this new Michael Jackson video.

SHERROD: Well, the Michael Jackson video, the feedback I'm getting on it, fans love it. They say it's very reminiscent of "Man in the Mirror," as far as encompassing all age groups, young and old, different genders and races.

You know, when they cast it for the video, they looked specifically for a child with no hands. They wanted physical disability, particularly a child with no hands.

Now, I've watched the video three times. Haven't seen that part of the video. Maybe I have to watch it another time.

But phenomenal video. And the director, Mark Pellington's choice to have different shots of Michael Jackson in the video, very, very brilliant. I prefer Michael any day over an impersonator, wouldn't you?

HOLMES: Oh, of course. There are so many impersonators out there.

But, on this, you said, for the most part, you're hearing from people, fans, they did like the video. Are there any detractors just yet, anybody out there that you've seen so far that's starting to criticize it?

SHERROD: Well, not criticism for the video. More so criticism for the Michael album which is coming out this month, just in time for Christmas.

You know, fans say, I don't know if Michael Jackson would want to put out an unfinished project. You know, many of the tracks on the album were throwaway tracks, and the record label just decided, hey, let's put them together, add some folks that sound like Michael Jackson. I think there's a little Justin Timberlake in there somewhere. Fans aren't too happy with that choice.

HOLMES: All right. People are going to buy it, though. Michael Jackson, we are still itching for any music of his.

Let's go to Prince now. He's been popping up here and there. He popped up with the ladies of "The View." Were they surprised by this?

SHERROD: You know, Sherri Shepherd was definitely surprised. I think she stopped breathing for 3.5 seconds there.

I would like to give her a high-five. Any red-blooded American woman would have probably done the same thing. And she couldn't resist the opportunity to hit on him, of course.

HOLMES: OK. How old is Prince now? He looks like he's still 27 years old.

SHERROD: I'd like to know what he's doing as far as his health is concerned. The man hasn't aged in over 20 years.

Take a look at him. Look at his skin. It's flawless, like porcelain. I believe he has a fountain of youth in his home somewhere.

HOLMES: He absolutely does.

Now, why are we seeing so much of him lately?

SHERROD: Well, of course he's launching his concert here in New York City, which is where I am. I know you're down in Atlanta right now.

And this is all the rage, the talk of the town. He'll be at the IZOD Center in Madison Square Garden. Different performances every night, so we don't know what we'll expect. This, of course, is the whole mystery about Prince, and I'm supposed to talk to him later today, fingers crossed.

HOLMES: OK. We had something -- we do have something here teed up, I believe from "The View." We can't hear from Prince. Let's go ahead and listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE VIEW")

SHERRI SHEPHERD, CO-HOST: You don't understand, Prince, I have wanted to make love to you for my whole life. I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP, "THE VIEW")

HOLMES: Who says that, first of all? But, hey, that's Prince, and there are just a few artists out there who bring out that reaction from women, and Prince is one of them. No matter what.

SHERROD: I mean, I'd like to know how he feels to know that even married women across the globe would leave their husbands for just one night with him. But did you see him hightail it out of there?

HOLMES: He did hightail it out of there.

SHERROD: Well, that's a classic moment.

HOLMES: Yes. All right.

Well, good to see you, Egypt Sherrod, as always. Thank you so much. And let us know if you end up getting to talk to him.

SHERROD: Thank you, T.J.

HOLMES: Thanks so much. Well, we're going to turn here. We have news here now.

I believe this is out of the Elizabeth Smart trial. We told you that the jury got this trial just yesterday. They got it just yesterday.

It was handed over for their deliberations, and today would actually be the first full day of deliberations. But already, we're starting to get word, and we are getting word, and our Ted Rowlands is on it for us, word that the jury is already out -- Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, T.J. We're getting word now that the jury has come to a verdict, and that people are being called back to the federal courthouse here in Salt Lake City. They deliberated for about three hours last night until almost 9:00 last night, and then they came back two hours ago this morning. And now we've just been informed there is a verdict. There will be a little delay here while the parties arrive at the courthouse. The attorneys, the Smart family. But they have come to a verdict in the case against Brian David Mitchell.

HOLMES: And Ted, what were people anticipating? The court watchers, if you will, about the deliberations? This was a decent size length of a trial, if you will, here, and it didn't seem like it takes them very long to come to a decision.

ROWLANDS: Yes. To be quite honest, I sat through the close yesterday and after that, there was a feeling by most people, myself included, that this wouldn't take very long. And the fact that it didn't take very long likely means that they have come to a guilty verdict. We'll find out momentarily.

But basically, the defense even came up and addressed the jury in the close and said, we're not going to argue that he did these horrible things. That he took this 14-year-old girl from her home, took her up to the hillside and raped her repeatedly over a nine-month period, kidnapped her. We're not arguing that. What we're asking you to do is look at his sanity.

And they were hoping the jury would find him incompetent and, therefore, not guilty by reason of insanity. The prosecution said this guy knew exactly what he did. He's not insane, he's putting on an act. And the fact that they've come back this quickly would lend one to believe, looking at the jury makeup, that they will likely come back with a guilty verdict. We'll find out probably within the hour.

HOLMES: Ted, you said it was an act, and there were some antics in court. Remind us of -- kind of - some of his behavior during this trial.

ROWLANDS: It's been a six-week trial, and every single day of this trial, Brian Mitchell has been escorted out of the courtroom after singing and disrupting the proceedings. It will be interesting to see now that he knows that he'll learn his fate whether or not he'll start to sing and be removed from the courtroom before this jury can -- or before this verdict can be read. What they've been doing with him is they put him into an adjacent room from the courtroom, and he's been able to watch the proceedings via closed-circuit television, but hasn't been in the courtroom for any one full day of testimony over a six-week period.

HOLMES: And Ted, remind us what he is facing if now, in fact, he is found guilty.

ROWLANDS: He's facing two federal counts of kidnapping. One is the count of kidnapping. The other is transporting a minor across state lines with intent to have sexual relations with a minor. Both of those counts carry a possible maximum sentence of life in prison.

This is eight years after Brian Mitchell was arrested and Elizabeth Smart was found -- almost eight years, found alive. The reason it's taken so long because in the state system where he would have faced rape charges and kidnapping charges, he was found mentally incompetent. So, the federal government came in, pressed charges on their own on these two charges. And in the federal system, it's up to the jury to determine whether or not he's competent to stand trial. Not a judge.

So, a judge in the state system said he was not competent. This jury here in Utah will decide whether or not they think he's competent enough to face criminal charges for these acts that even his defense attorney admits he did, in fact, initiate.

HOLMES: All right. Ted, one last thing to you. How often has Elizabeth Smart -- we know she testified, how often has she been there for the trial day in, day out? And also, do we expect her to be there when the verdict is read?

ROWLANDS: Absolutely. We expect her to be there. She has been there throughout the entire trial. She has been sitting with her family in the front row right behind prosecutors, and she has been a constant in this long, drawn-out, very detail-oriented trial. She's been just incredibly strong. She's 23 years old now.

She was on a mission. She's an LDS member. She was on a mission in Paris, left the mission to come back to Salt Lake to attend this trial. And they are on their way back, the Smart family is on the way to the courthouse right now to hear this verdict.

HOLMES: All right. Ted Rowlands, we appreciate you. I know you're standing by for the verdict. We'll continue to check in with you. Thank you so much.

And again, to our audience, if you're just catching it, there has now just been a verdict. We're waiting to hear it. But the jury in the trial of the man accused of kidnapping Elizabeth Smart when she was 14 years old, raping her repeatedly and holding her for some nine months. Well, his trial has wrapped up and the jury has now reached a verdict. We're expecting to hear the jury come out with that verdict at any time now. When it does happen, we will bring that to you.

Quick break. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Here we are about 25 minutes until the top of the hour. We're getting just getting word the jury in the file of the man accused of kidnapping Elizabeth Smart and holding her for nine months when she was 14 years old, the jury in his trial has now come back. They do have a verdict. We're expected to hear that at any moment.

They are right now collecting people out of Salt Lake City, getting people back to the courtroom, letting them know there has been a verdict reached. When everybody gets in the courtroom, they'll then read the verdict.

On the line with me, attorney B.J. Bernstein, who helps us out on trials. Criminal defense attorney here.

B.J., we appreciate you being here. How tricky is this issue?

You know what? Before I even get to that, what does it tell you that they got the trial -- the jury just got it yesterday. They were only deliberating for a few hours today. What does that tell you?

B.J. BERNSTEIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it bodes for a guilty verdict because they were trying to decide really a psychological issue here. Was he insane or not? And normally if a jury is really grappling with insanity, they're going to take hours and hours to do it. And instead, they've come up with this decision very quickly.

So, you know, I'm shy about prognosticating, but I would say that when we know that -- it's not an issue did he do this? The defense wasn't that he did not, you know, commit a lot of horrible acts to this young woman. The whole defense was, is he insane? And when you have had the difficulty before of the state court judges holding him incompetent and then a jury coming back this quickly, I don't think it means anything much other than guilty. I would be surprised.

HOLMES: What do you make of his antics? I know you weren't in the courtroom necessarily. But still, we've been reading about -- we just heard our Ted Rowlands report that just about every day, he had to be taken out of the courtroom because he was either singing or acting out in some way. Quite frankly acting crazy. What do you make of that?

BERNSTEIN: Well, what's interesting is what previous judges have made of that. Because as I said, state of Utah actually had tried to prosecute him. And they had a competency trial that lasted several days and the same things, the singing, the wailing, the standing up, the inappropriateness of his actions during a legal proceeding made the state court judge say, you know what? He's incompetent. He cannot even stand trial, versus the federal judge who is hearing this case right now, saw the exact same, you know, actions in the courtroom this spring. Again, singing, had to be taken out. And that judge says, you know, this is all an act.

So, for the jury that's going to be something that they're going to have a real strong reaction to one way or the other. Did it mean he was crazy, or did it really mean that he was just acting up in order to save himself from a very severe penalty?

HOLMES: What happens, since like you said, he has admitted to doing this. Or at least his defense has admitted to doing it, but they're saying he's got his mental illness. So, if the jury comes back and says, no, this guy is perfectly sane, where do we go from there? That just means automatically and by default, he is guilty. What is he facing now as far as a prison sentence?

BERNSTEIN: He is facing extensive prison time. I believe it's well over 15 years.

HOLMES: Well over 15 years. If he was -- happened to be found insane he would then, what, go to treatment?

BERNSTEIN: Right. He would go to treatment. Now, when we say treatment when people are held insane, it means a confined facility that provides mental health treatment. It does not mean that he's going to be going out wherever he wants. By way of comparison, think of the John Hinckley case, the man who tried to assassinate President Reagan and how he was found mentally, criminally insane. And he had been confined and only in later years had people been petitioning to get him out on visits or things like that.

So, no matter what happens, no matter what the jury does today, it would be safe to say that this defendant will not be on the streets of Utah or anywhere else.

HOLMES: All right. And to our viewers, B.J., don't go away. But to viewers who may be just joining us, to let you know, we are standing by to hear the verdict. We are told one has been reached in the trial of Brian David Mitchell. He's the man accused of abducting and raping Elizabeth Smart when she was 14 years old. She had been missing for nine months before she was found.

He has now been on trial for the past several weeks, and now the verdict has been reached by the jury. A jury that just got the trial with deliberations yesterday. They deliberated until 9:00 last night but then came back today starting a couple hours ago, their deliberations. So, not even a full day of deliberations but a quick verdict in this trial.

We're waiting to hear that verdict. They're waiting for people to get back into the courtroom, getting word out to everyone associated with the trial that a verdict has been reached, collect everybody and then it will be read. We will have that for you as soon as we get it.

Quick break. And we're right back.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back. We're about a quarter till the top of the hour. We're standing by to hear what the jury has decided in the case of Brian David Mitchell. He is the man accused of kidnapping and raping Elizabeth Smart when she was 14 years old.

This was a case that captured the nation's attention. The young lady taken from her home in the middle of the night, disappeared literally without a trace at the time. Then she shows up nine months later, walking around with this man and his wife.

Now, he is facing two charges. The first charge of kidnapping, the other of unlawful transportation of a minor with intent to engage in sexual activity. Now, the jury right now is not necessarily deciding guilt or innocence. What they're deciding right now is whether or not he is sane or insane. That was the defense. The defense had decided to try to convince the jury that the man is not -- doesn't have all his faculties about him, if you will. That he doesn't necessarily know right from wrong. So, the jury is deciding that.

The jury just got the trial yesterday and deliberated last night up until about 9:00 local time there in Salt Lake City. Well, they came back with a verdict this morning after a couple hours of deliberations, and we got word just minutes ago that they have reached a verdict, but we're waiting for that verdict to be read in the courtroom.

Our B.J. Bernstein, a criminal defense attorney who helps us out on some of the analysis of many trials is on the line with me still.

B.J., one of the questions I was going to ask you was, how -- I guess, how risky sometimes can it be with the defense of insanity? An insanity defense? Because you're admitting you did something wrong, you're just, at the same time, saying I didn't know what I was doing was wrong.

BERNSTEIN: Well, I will tell you that rarely are insanity defenses successful. They are very difficult to show, and in particularly here. I mean the truth is, the facts of this case, what happened to this young woman, how she was found in his presence, her very powerful testimony during this trial made it where there was no issue whether it happened or not. It truly got down to whether he is insane or not. There really was no other choice for the defense.

And we do have to acknowledge, all of us, when we saw this man, I remember when I heard the first news about Elizabeth, you know, being found and they showed the pictures of this guy, he does look -- I mean Mr. Mitchell really looked disturbed, you know, on some level. The crazy hair, the crazy eyes and the strange things that he talked about. And that did get presented to the jury, along with his wife who testified about how abusive he was.

HOLMES: What's the difficulty, though? What's the challenge there for the defense, then, B.J., to try to convince 12 men and women that this guy didn't know what he was doing was right or wrong? And can it possibly be a part of his defense to put on the show that he was putting on in the courtroom?

BERNSTEIN: That's actually what the federal judge in this case thought when she was -- had him in court. Remember, we're seeing the jury part of this case now. This last spring, this same federal judge had a competency hearing. Now the difference between incompetency and insanity is competency is just, can he actually even sit through a trial and assist your lawyer or are you just so far gone that you can't even help them do that at the time of trial? And this judge rejected it and said, all the shenanigans and the singing and the statements made in court were simply things done on his part to try to make up that he couldn't go to trial. So this particular judge has rejected that.

Now, they are trying it again in front of 12 people, going that extra step, not just the competency, but as you just pointed out, T.J., not knowing the difference of whether his acts were right or wrong. And that's what this jury is having to decide, essentially, on his own actions, what Elizabeth testified to, what his wife, Wanda, testified to, and the various doctors, psychiatrists who evaluated him, for both the government and the defense.

HOLMES: Now what would the jury -- would they have to walk in there and, you know, maybe all 12 of them -- I assume -- you tell me, it had to be unanimous in there when they go in and take a vote. What does a jury do? Suppose they took the first vote and they all thought he was sane. Do they sit around and keep talking about it and keep talking about it? How does this work?

BERNSTEIN: Well, I means it's up to jurors. You know, they take their votes. It's a mysterious thing in the jury room because we don't give instructions about how they're supposed to come up with it. We just tell them it must be a unanimous verdict. And some juries go in and just immediately vote, know what they want to do. Other juries will talk about it for hours or they'll take an early vote to see what the split is and then each of the jurors may talk to one another to convince each other about why which position they could take and then sway, perhaps, another juror another way.

Again, you know, this is a very quick decision in a case like this where we heard evidence from the defense -- you know, the defense had put up doctors and very dramatically the government came back and rebuttal (ph) and put up a doctor. And during this trial when the defense doctor testified, Elizabeth Smart ran out of the courtroom because she was so shocked and appalled at some of the things that were being said.

HOLMES: Is this -- if it happens that, in fact, they do find him to be sane, can there be an appeal? Will there be an appeal?

BERNSTEIN: Most certainly, you know, any defendant who's facing a case, you end up seeing an appeal. And that will probably be the case here, particularly because, again, what's a little bit unusual here, although we saw it in the Rodney King case where there's state court action, that it doesn't convict or doesn't incarcerate the way the government wants someone, and so then the federal court step in and do a second case. And so that certainly will be an issue that's thought out on the appellate court level with, you know, a state court found this man incompetent and then all of a sudden he's found competent to stand trial in federal court.

HOLMES: All right, B.J. Bernstein, we appreciate you. Don't go too far away.

Want to remind our viewers what we're standing by for. We're waiting to hear the jury's decision. The jury in the trial of the man accused of kidnapping and raping Elizabeth Smart back in 2002. She disappeared from her home of summer of that year. She wasn't found until nine months later. She was found walking down the street with that man, Brian David Mitchell, and his wife. She was only five miles from her home when she was found. She was gone for nine months. Everyone had thought the worst. But she was found and she was, for the most part, OK. Certainly some issues she's had to deal with over the years, but the young lady had been raped she said on a daily basis almost for those nine months by that man.

Now he has been facing trial for the past several weeks. That trial is not to decide whether or not he's guilty or innocent of those crimes. It's to decide whether or not he is sane or insane. That is all the jury had to decide here. And they have had the trial for deliberations. Only a couple of hours today. And a few hours yesterday. And they have come back already with a quick verdict. A verdict we are standing by to hear at any moment. When we get it, we will bring it to you. We are standing by this breaking news story in the Elizabeth Smart trial. Stay here.

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HOLMES: Just to let you know, we are standing by -- we are waiting to hear what the jury has decided in the trial of Brian David Mitchell. He is the man accused of kidnapping and raping Elizabeth Smart when she was 14 years old. She was kidnapped, you may remember, this was back in 2002. Just disappeared from her home almost without a trace. She was found some nine months later walking around just five miles from her home with this man and his wife.

Now, the jury is not having to decide whether or not he is guilty, necessarily, of these crimes. What they're deciding is whether or not he is sane or insane. He's pretty much admitted to committing the particular acts, but his defense is saying he is not mentally capable of knowing right from wrong.

Now, Elizabeth Smart, he's a 20-something-year-old college student now. She's a grown woman who has been there day in, day out of this trial. She testified herself. You see her there. But the jury only got the trial for deliberations yesterday. Deliberated a few hours yesterday. Also deliberated just a few hours this morning. And now they've already reached a decision. We are standing by to hear that. When that happens, we will bring that to you.

Meantime, I want to be able to get in here a couple of other stories we were keeping close tabs on.

First, stocks. They're wavering on both sides of break even as the week of Wall Street draws to a close. Checking out the big board here. It's -- the Dow is up about 19 points at this point. We'll keep a close eye as we're wrapping up the week.

Also, need to check those Rolaids. Johnson & Johnson recalling more than 13 million packages of the antacid after consumer complaints of foreign materials, including metal and wood particles.

Also, one more here. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is in a Washington hospital to have a kidney stone removed. This surgical procedure is considered minor. Geithner is expected to be released tomorrow.

Again, one more time before we take a quick break here. I want to let our viewers know we're standing by for -- and this could come at any moment -- we're waiting to hear the verdict of the jury in the trial of that man, Brian David Mitchell. He is the one accused of kidnapping Elizabeth Smart back when she was 14 years old in 2002. You'll remember the case. It really captivated the country. She disappeared without a trace. People were thinking the worst. But then nine months later, lo and behold, she is found walking around just five miles from her home with that man.

You see him here. He has been acting out in -- day in, day out in the courtroom. He's had to be removed just about every day of this trial, according to our Ted Rowland's who's covering it for us in Salt Lake City.

He had an insanity defense. So the jury is deciding whether or not the man is sane or not. Whether or not what he was doing, did he know what he was doing was right or wrong? Did not take them long to deliberate. The verdict is in. We're waiting to have it announced in the courtroom.

A quick break. We're right back.

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HOLMES: We're getting close to the top of the hour and we are getting close to hearing the verdict of Brian David Mitchell. He is the man accused -- he is the man who has admitted, I should say, that he did, in fact, kidnap and rape Elizabeth Smart back when she was 14 years old. I say he has admitted because the jury is not having to decide guilt or innocence here. They're having to decide whether or not the man is sane or insane. He's using an insanity defense. Has claimed -- or his defense has claimed that they did not know, or he did not know that what he was doing was wrong.

This is a man who has been acting out in court just about every single day, has had to be removed from the courtroom every day during the trial because he's acting out, because he's singing or doing something. And a lot of people thought he acted, quite frankly, like he was crazy. But that's not enough to convince, necessarily, a jury whether or not this man is guilty or innocent or sane or insane.

Elizabeth Smart is a young college student now. She's 20- something years old. She was 14 at the time. This was back in 2002 in the summer. A lot of people remember this case. It captivated the country. A young, beautiful woman just disappeared without a trace in the middle of the night. She was found nine months later walking around just five miles from her home with that man, Brian David Mitchell, and his wife. But we are standing by and we'll hear any moment what the jury has decided, whether or not this man is, in fact, sane or insane.

I will hand it over for continuing coverage here in the CNN NEWSROOM of that story and many others to my good friend, Ali Velshi.