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Why China Matters?; Rep. Giffords' Recovery; Apple's Future Without Jobs

Aired January 18, 2011 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's 10:00 a.m. on the East Coast now, 7:00 a.m. out West. I'm Kyra Phillips. Here's some of the stories that have us talking this morning. It's been a half hour since the opening bell and computer giant Apple may be in for a pretty rough morning. After being closed for the MLK holiday, the markets are digesting news that co-founder Steve Jobs is taking a medical leave of absence. Apple's stock prices fell almost six percent from the opening bell.

In New York, a trial to begin for a TV executive accused of beheading his wife. Nearly two years ago, her headless body was found in the offices of the network Bridges TV designed for Muslims living in the U.S..

In Haiti, a journalist plans to file charges against exiled dictator who made an unexpected return over the weekend. That's right, Jean Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier has been accused of stealing millions of dollars from the impoverished country and torturing political opponents. He has not yet revealed why he's back in Haiti.

Red and gold Chinese flags flying alongside the stars and stripes on Pennsylvania Avenue in D.C.. China's President Hu Jintao arrives in Washington today ahead of his meeting with President Obama. Two leaders representing the world's largest economies. But the U.S. is still number one by a long shot. 14.6 trillion, compared to just under 6.3 trillion for China.

But they've got us outnumbered, their population of over a trillion definitely dwarfs us. And while our economic growth last year was right around 2.6 percent, China was in double digit territory. Senior White House correspondent Ed Henry joining us live. So Ed, President Obama and President Hu going to have a lot to talk about. But what exactly does the president hope to accomplish here.

ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's more, frankly, about getting a dialogue going. This is going to be at least the eighth one-on-one meeting that these two presidents have had since Barack Obama took office. And so inside the White House, they believe this is a very difficult, complicated relationship. They're not going to see eye to eye on a lot of these big issues, but that they hope that they're building some trust to try to move forward in the years ahead.

Let's take off some of the big issues they're going to talk about. They're, of course, going to talk about trying to reform China's currency. That's a big issue right now in the United States. Also addressing trade imbalances because there are a lot of Americans who feel that with the unemployment rate so high, a lot of these jobs are going to China. And then finally human rights, something President Obama, his top aides say he plans to be aggressive about, pushing behind closed doors.

But let's keep in mind that there's only so hard that this president can push because the fact of the matter is, tonight, what they're going to be doing is getting behind closed doors for a more intimate kind of dinner. It's in the old state dining room, what's significant about that - the old family dining room, I should say. What's significant about that, it's a very small room. It's kind of where President Obama has more intimate lunches and dinners, not the big formal state dining room where you have an event with all kinds of staffers.

This is going to be small. This is a kind of chance to get a conversation going. But in terms of any real what the diplomats call "deliverable," some big break through, I don't really see that coming, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Ed Henry, we'll definitely be following the dinner and the discussions. Thanks.

And the battle over health care reform this week, House Republican will vote on repealing the overhaul, the final debate in the House is set to get underway today. Tomorrow, a final House vote is scheduled, even if the Republican majority in the House passes the repeal, the measure is almost certain to die in the Senate where Democrats remain in control. So that's pretty much basic math, right? But not according to one Tea Party lawmaker, he says today begins the unraveling.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: No scenario that could be laid out by anyone to repeal Obama care could be laid out without including this vote that we start to debate today and we'll vote on tomorrow to repeal it in the House. And initially, there are 23 Democrats in the Senate that are up for re-election. Some of them know already that if they have a vote on repeal Obama care, they will vote to repeal it and I'll predict that if we can get a vote in the Senate, Obama care will be repealed in the Senate and that will put the bill on the president's desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Just yesterday, King referred to the healthcare reform as a "malignant tumor" and today he says he'll abide by the bipartisan calls for more civility and may even sit among Democrats for the "State of the Union" address.

Today, the White House is revealing new numbers to help win the support of a skeptical public. Here's a sneak peek. Thanks to "The Washington Post," it's reporting this White House claims as many as 129 million Americans under the age of 65 stand to benefit from the government's guaranteed health care coverage.

The reason - those Americans have medical problems that would either drive up their insurance rates or prevent them from getting coverage all together.

President Obama may have to take a self-described shellacking in the midterm elections, but his political fortunes may be on the rise. According to this latest CNN opinion research poll, 53 percent of Americans now approve of how he's handling his job. That's a bump of five percentage points since last month and 11 percentage points since September.

Now, President Obama may be winning the confidence of more Americans but don't count Dick Cheney among them, the former vice president standing by his long standing criticisms of the commander in chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT: I think he embarked upon a course of action when he became president that did not have as much support as he thought it did. That once he got into the business, for example, of health care reform, expanding the size of government, expanding the deficit, those are all weaknesses as I look at Barack Obama. And I think he'll be a one-term president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Speaking of 2012, Sarah Palin says that she's not sure if she'll run for president, but she is making one pledge. Here's what she had to say on Fox News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I am not ready to make an announcement as to what my political future is going to be. But I'll tell you, Sean. I'm not going to sit down, I'm not going to shut up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Straight and to the point. Palin is dismissing critics who say her charged rhetoric may have contributed to that deadly shooting rampage in Tucson. A Democratic congresswoman was among the 19 people gunned down at that political gathering.

In fact, let's give you an update on Representative Gabby Giffords, shall we? Doctors says she is still recovering well from that bullet wound to her head. In fact, they say she could be released from the hospital in weeks, possibly even days. Giffords has shown signs of recognizing her husband and has even been taken off a respirator.

This is a rather startling progress report from Giffords' husband who has rarely left her bedside. Last night shuttle astronaut Mark Kelly told ABC News that Giffords actually had a chance to rub his neck. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK KELLY, GABRIELLE GIFFORDS' HUSBAND: This is her, so typical of her. She's in the ICU, you know, gone through this traumatic injury and she spent 10 minutes giving me a neck massage. I keep telling her, I'm like Gabby, you're in the ICU, you don't need, you know, to be doing this, but it's so typical of her. No matter how bad the situation might be for her, she's looking out for other people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, doctors say the gesture suggests that Giffords recognizes her husband and wants to interact. It's not clear if she still has her sight in both eyes.

When highways become water ways, no explanation needed in parts of western Washington and Seattle where some flood warnings have been extended through today after heavy rains this weekend swelled rivers, closing nearby roads and creating flood related havoc. One state worker actually died during those Sunday storms. And it's not just the Pacific northwest under the gun from the severe weather.

Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras has more on this.

JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I get Jerry a lot.

PHILLIPS: Jacqui Jeras, say that six times really fast. It's much easier for me to call you JJ.

JERAS: Yes, that works too.

Hey, you know, those pictures, you know, really scary what's been going on in the Pacific northwest. And I finally have good news to tell you. There is rain in the forecast today, I know that's not the good part, but the good part of it is that we're talking maybe an additional quarter of an inch at the most. And so this is basically going to be inconsequential and should not impact the flood situation.

The large majority of the rivers are receding now and have crested. So things are looking a little bit better for you in the Pacific northwest until we see another storm probably late this week. In the meantime, the east is dealing with their fair share of real lousy weather here. We have got two storm systems, the coastal storm right now is the one of greatest concern because it's been bringing in a wintry mix across much of the megalopolis today and is causing just traffic on the roadways and unfortunately in the airwaves as well.

You're kind or done with it for the most part now, in Washington, Baltimore, that's good. Philadelphia you've changed over the rain. New York City, you're at 32 degrees right now. So we're working on that transition, but there's a nice glaze of ice on many of the roadways. Boston just snow for now and we should see a mix later on as we head through the afternoon hours for today.

If you're trying to travel by the airwaves, check it out ground stop now in San Francisco, due to the fog there, an hour and a half in LaGuardia as well as Newark and Philadelphia and Boston now looking at 30 minute arrival delays. And cold air is going to follow that second storm that I was showing you, temperatures only in the single digits for you today in Minneapolis and if you think that's cold, Kyra, a big Arctic blast hit the upper midwest by the middle of the week and some folks could be looking at temperatures in the double digits below zero.

PHILLIPS: All right. Jacqui, thanks.

Well, Regis Philbin announcing he's leaving "Live Regis and Kelly," a show that he's been a part of for nearly three decades.

And an unemployed welder has created a little magic in his yard. And who knows, a whole new career as a sculpture could emerge from it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST "CONAN": in an interview, Arnold Schwarzenegger said being governor of California cost him at least $200 million in lost movie roles. That's what he said. Yes. However most movie goers say, it was worth it. "Jingle all the Way" in 3-D.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: The governator did say that his role as California's governor cost him a lot of roles in those films and millions of dollars in missed opportunities but in his interview with an Austrian paper, he did add that he's got no regrets about his involvement in politics.

"Showbiz Tonight" host A.J. Hammer with more. So what do you think, Arnold, go back to making movies and millions again.

A.J. HAMMER, HOST "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Yes, Kyra, I think he's out of work, so he needs a job, right? It definitely seems like he's at least considering the possibility of getting back to movies. His interview with that Austrian newspaper caused all kinds of speculation about that. He did tell the newspaper, he wants to adjust his career, kind of like Clint Eastwood did - take more age appropriate roles. One project actually he's been tied to is a film called "With Wings of Eagles." In that he will reportedly play a Nazi officer who risks his life to save American prisoners of war at the end of World War II. And Arnold told the paper, this is actually based on a true story and a role he's been considering for a while. I guess he obviously didn't have the time to do it but Kyra, we should have known Arnold, of course, he'll be back.

PHILLIPS: He would be back. He'll probably stay back.

Now some other news that just happened about an hour ago, he announced it live on his show. Regis is leaving "Live with Regis & Kelly."

HAMMER: Yes, this is a total stunner. There's absolutely no indication anywhere in the industry elsewhere that this was in the works but Regis dropped a major bombshell at the very beginning of "Live with Regis and Kelly" this morning. Listen to what he said -

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REGIS PHILBIN, HOST "LIVE WITH REGIS & KELLY": This will be my last year on this show. There is a time that, you know, everything must come to an end for certain people on camera, especially certain old people. So, anyway, folks, I just want you to know that, plenty of room to go. This is going to happen at the end of the summer, the fall, whatever it is, we don't know that yet. But just so that you know. OK.

KELLY RIPA, CO-HOST "LIVE WITH REGIS & KELLY": I can only speak for America and all of us here when I say it has been a pleasure and a privilege and a dream come true and I wish I could do something to make you change your mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: So obviously very fresh, as you mentioned, Kyra, it happened just over an hour ago. It sounds like Regis isn't even sure when his last day will be. But you can bet Kelly is not the only one out there who's getting emotional over this news. Regis, he's just one of those beloved personalities. He's been doing this show for 28 years. So Kyra, this definitely will be marking an end of an era when he wraps things up. Dare I say, Regis Philbin, a national treasure.

PHILLIPS: They have such great chemistry, it totally works. There was a lot of skepticism at the beginning and they just - they really made it work.

HAMMER: Yes, and one of the questions we'll be pondering on "Showbiz Tonight" a little later today is can the show go on? I love Kelly. Kelly is fantastic, she's terrific. But it's always been his show. It's called live but it's with Regis and, of course, Kathie Lee Gifford was there for a number of years as well - Kelly just fit right in and she's been amazing.

But the question is who can they get in that seat that's going to make people want to stick around and stay with the formula. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see and we'll have many months to figure that out.

PHILLIPS: My guess is you'll break the story. A.J., thanks. Anything you want entertainment wise, A.J.'s always got it, every night on HLN, "Showbiz Tonight" at 5:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m..

Stealing honor and selling it for scrap. Coming up we're going to tell you how greed and gal defaced a memorial to vets, a memorial that other veterans paid for out of their own pockets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's head across country. Let's start first in a little west of Honolulu, Hawaii. Something no vacationer ever wants to find. Medical waste washing ashore. For two days people have ran across vials of blood and syringes among other things. They've been traced to a nearby landfill. Some beaches still remain closed.

(INAUDIBLE) Pennsylvania, police say vandals knocked over 50 headstones at a local cemetery. Some broke, others frozen into the ground and can't be fixed until a thaw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think a person has to be sick to do it. I mean to hit a cemetery, that they probably have no thinking at all, I mean to go through there and upset stones like that, push them off and break them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Police estimate that that damage is probably going to cost thousands of dollars.

Take a look at what you're going to find in a suburb of Indianapolis. A lawn full of ice sculptures, Greek gods, goddesses, even the winged horse Pegasus. Now, this is all Scott Hail's talent come to life, talent that he found as an unemployed welder. A lot of ice and snow, a lot of free time on his hands, well, it led to what could become a new career.

Now this is one of those stories where you just sit back, your jaw drops and you wonder who in the heck could be so heartless? How could anyone in his or her right mind disrespect hundreds of military veterans who secured them, the insensitive thieves, the right to be innocent until proven guilty. For decades, a war memorial in front of the Veterans of Foreign Affairs post 6919 in Morningside, Maryland near D.C. stood as a testament to bravery, about 100 years of history. It's a big, naked slab of brick now, because all thieves saw was easy cash.

They took eight bronze plaques, with the names of more than 1,000 brave troops from all the way back to World War 1. The stolen bronze is worth thousands of dollars in the scrap yard but the stolen honor, well, how do you even put a price on that?

James Holland is the commander of VFW Post 9619 and he still can't believe what happened. When you got the word, James, you heart must have sunk.

JAMES HOLLAND, COMMANDER VFW POST 9619: Yes, it did. It still is because we cannot replace those pictures and memorials. There's nothing that we can do except for just sit back and just take the punishment, I guess you could say that they put upon us and everything. It was very disrespectful.

PHILLIPS: Yes, it is. And we're talking about $70,000 that all of you saved your money, you put it together to put this memorial together. These thieves came, a crowbar is what it looks like, and took these plaques off, tried to take it to a scrap yard. Thank goodness, the person who run the scrap yard didn't give them any cash for those. They still have a chance to return them. But is there any way to find a master list of all these names? Or are many of the names on these plaques the only record you have, James?

HOLLAND: No, the stones are the only way we can replace any of them because we don't have a master list to tell us who was on there and everything. We just do it as people pass and we put their names up there. But there is no master list to go back to and to replace them with.

PHILLIPS: And have families - what have families said? Have they been calling wanting updates? I mean, this has got to have devastated so many families of our war dead.

HOLLAND: Yes, a lot of the families have been coming to us and asking what's going on, do we have any leads, or whatever, how the police are handling it. Well, we tell them, "no, we don't have any leads. We know (INAUDIBLE) and everything but we don't know what's going to happen down the road because we have been asking them to bring them back and everything as you have said, but we haven't gotten any response from them. But the families are broken hearted. They just don't know how to respond to something happening like this.

PHILLIPS: And I have been reading about how families come to this memorial, you have special ceremonies and various celebrations there to remember all these troopers. I mean, put it in perspective what this memorial has done for you and other vets and families of those individuals listed on these plaques.

HOLLAND: Well, basically it has ripped our heart out. Because this is where we go to, on Memorial Day, especially to pay honor to the fallen veterans and every thing. These people made it back to this country after serving overseas in a foreign war. They came back, they joined the VFW, they put out information to other veterans, helping other veterans and everything and now for somebody to come along and rip that legacy off, it's heart breaking.

We have nothing that we can say except for how disrespectful can people be nowadays and everything? We feel that it's not someone who was part of a veteran's organization, it was someone that hasn't learned respect that we have learned by being in the military and serving our country and everything.

PHILLIPS: That's right. You served 20 years in the Air Force. So you know how this feels. Well, I tell you what, we're hoping that this segment does something and that these cowards return those plaques and get them to authorities there in Morningside, Maryland. We want to get those back because it's an absolute shame what they did.

James Holland, commander of VFW Post 9619. Appreciate you joining us.

HOLLAND: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: You bet. Well, troubled students on college campuses, the issue is back in the spotlight as we learn more about the alleged killer in the Tucson shooting. He was suspended from a community college for his bizarre behavior. Now schools across the country stepping up to recognize possible threats lurking in the student body and figuring out what to do.

And they call this man a modern day Thomas Edison. So what happens to his global corporation now that he says he has to step down for health issues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right. Stock market opening bell rang just about an hour ago. Checking the numbers. The Dow industrials up 60 points and the stunning announcement that Apple's CEO is stepping down for health reasons, raising a lot of questions now. Can the company continue to thrive without it's driving force, Steve Jobs?

Business news correspondent Stephanie Elam raises a more immediate one. What actually happens to Apple's stock? And how did it open on Wall Street today, Steph.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, this is the question everyone wanted to know because the announcement came on a day that the markets weren't open, obviously, yesterday, we were observing Martin Luther King day. But take a look at Apple's stock today, it's on the downside by three and three quarters percent here. They are keeping a report earnings after the bill, They're supposed to be stellar numbers. So it's interesting to see how they played this out.

They're making the announcement, over the last five years you can see the stock has been up over 300 percent. And this is during a recession. This is what the stock has done.

It's also taking into account the leave of absence Steve Jobs had two years ago when he did have surgery because of pancreatic cancer. This is he second one, we talked about how there's a change in tone from his announcement last time to this one. This one seems to be a little bit more open ended. No time frame on when he's expected to come back.

But overall, when analysts look at what Apple has to offer, their pipeline is chock full of products for the next five years or so. The company is definitely thriving right now. Overall, they say the company is going to be fined. The stock will probably perform well, even if it takes a short-term hit right now because of this news about Steve Jobs.

But what will be interesting to see is what happens as the culture evolves, Steve Jobs is an integral part of the conversation at apple. He's key in how products are developed. He's key in how the company goes about attacking which projects it's going to bring to market. He is so much a part of this company that's why so many people are concerned. Because he is seen as a genius, he's seen as the lifeblood of this company and will be itching to see what happens. Obviously everyone want to see that he will be fine, he'll feel better and will be back with the company, but they're not as hopeful that he will return as they once were with the first leave of absence for him, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, as you mentioned, one innovation that Apple can't claim is the electric car. But as more auto companies bet on the future of electric cars, how are people going to charge them?

ELAM: That is the issue and that's been an issue for a lot of people. Saying hey I like the idea of being more environmentally friendly and getting a car I can charge, but I don't want to be tethered to my garage. That's really been the case for most people because you have to get your own little charging dock in your garage to juice up your car.

Well, now we have got more and more charging stations popping up across the country. Some of them are free, some of them are about $3 an hour. The whole idea is while you go into, say, the Mall of America, you can also charge your car up while you're there and be ready to go with all the wares you pick up at the mall. Grocery stores are doing this as well. This is something that they're hoping will help people out, thinking they can go ahead and take care of their duties and get everything done.

But here's the thing, Kyra, that's very interesting. It takes three or four hours to charge some of these cars that are coming to market. So, it's not the case that you can get up in the morning and say "Ooh, I only have a gallon of gas left in the car. I'll just drive the car over there and be on my way." You need to plan to charge. Otherwise you may have to lace up the Nikes -

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Go for a brisk run. Exactly. Get that exercise.

ELAM: Exactly!

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Steph.

Well, it's the bottom of the hour and here's some other stories that have us talking this morning, Regis philbin just announced that he's retiring. he said that this will be his last year on "Live With Regis and Kelly." In his own words, he said, "There's a time when everything needs to come to an end for people on camera."

President Obama taking a jump in the latest CNN/Opinion Research poll. Fifty-three percent of those questioned approve of how he's handling his White House duties. That's a five point improvement over last month and better than Bill Clinton's ratings at the same time in his presidency.

And with Detroit's school system in a $325 million hole, the city has a plan to close 44 schools by summer. More schools would be closed by 2012. Some buildings would be renovated, others consolidated.

Well, dealing with troubled students on college campuses. It's become a delicate balancing act, and now we're having a national conversation once again about this. This time in the aftermath of the shooting in Tucson.

Why? Because of this alleged killer. Jared Loughner. That stare, that smile. And there were so many red flags. He was suspended from Pima Community College after a string of bizarre actions. People complained. And reports were written citing his hostile behavior. I mean, right here, I've got 51 pages worth of police documents calling Loughner "creepy."

So, what more can a school do? More than 1, 600 college campuses nationwide have started using threat assessment teams. That number shot up in 2007 after the Virginia Tech massacre. Now, there are questions about how appropriate, even effective those teams are.

Dr. Alan Lipman is the founder and director of the Center For the Study of Violence. He's also a lawyer and he's joining me live from D.C. And from Philadelphia, Brett Sokolow, executive director of the National Behavioral Intervention Team Association.

And Alan, let's start with you, because you have been talking about this for weeks now with us when it comes --

DR. ALAN LIPMAN, FOUNDER/DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF VIOLENCE: You're welcome, Kyra -- and Brett.

PHILLIPS: Yes, it's great to have you both.

BRETT SOKOLOW, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL BEHAVIORAL INTERVIENTION TEAM ASSOCIATION: Good morning.

PHILLIPS: We have been talking about these revelations of mental illness and the research that shows how crucial that college age is and that you --

LIPMAN: That's right.

PHILLIPS: That's when you move from acting odd, shall we say, to having some serious mental health issues that are real and dangerous, right, Alan?

LIPMAN: Well, certainly in the case of Loughner. Now, there are many different men mental health issues we need to deal with. But with Loughner, who seems -- with the caveat that we need to do further examination - to be suffering from a potential psychotic illness. The break is right at that age, late teens, early 20s. We need those programs like the ones that Brett is working on, behavioral intervention teams, to be able identify these in cases like Cho and in cases like Loughner before they happen.

Now, there are some concerns about this approach and another approach, gateway programs. But we absolutely need to develop them, and they're potentially of great value if they're narrowly tailored to the approach.

PHILLIPS: All right. Now, Brett, you did devise this threat assessment for a college setting. And it's interesting. I've got it here in front of me. And you put it together from mild to moderate, elevated, severe extreme. Explain this threat assessment tool, this threat assessment tool, and how helpful it's been.

SOKOLOW: Sure, Kyra, I'm happy to do that. What we did was try to put together something that was shorthand, that was a quick and easy tool that college administrators, without years and years of training could use to assess someone's condition. Their emerging potential for assistance, their need for support and their potential for violence.

And so, while this falls far short of the kind of assessment that Dr. Lipman and other experts can do, this is designed to be used quickly and accurately by college administrators so they really have an idea of what they're dealing with and what the appropriate interventions are.

PHILLIPS: And it talks about distress and disturbance going up to the medically disabled and when exactly you're in the crisis phase. Now -- as there an assessment team on the Pima college campus, Brett?

SOKOLOW: Yes, absolutely. Pima had a behavioral assessment committee, which is another form of behavioral intervention team or threat assessment team that has become so common on college campuses now. And it was really by the analysis of that team and under that team's authority the decision was made to suspend Loughner.

PHILLIPS: So here's my question, why didn't that team -- let me ask Brett, Alan, why didn't that team take it a step further, Brett? I mean, they made the evaluation, they realized that this was definitely a kid in trouble. Why didn't they utilize the law that Arizona has and take it a step further and say OK, we have got to get this kid some mental help?

SOKOLOW: Yes, that's what we have been calling at in a bit of the sort of the argument of the "do mores" who come out after these incident that says why didn't the college do more? Why didn't the school do more? And I'd like to pause for just a moment and say that we believe in NBITA that Pima did great. Under the circumstances, what they did was competent. It was more than adequate, it was reasonable action, and in fact, it did protect their community.

Now, people are asking with the benefit of hindsight whether it would have been valuable to make a referral to the mental health community for Loughner. And of course, if there were clear predictors of violence, that should have been done. But we don't have any indications in those 51 pages that he was more than creepy and mildly threatening. And in those circumstances, colleges take reasonable action. Here, Pima actually suspended him, not permanently, but with the encouragement to go get a mental health clearance.

So, they did try to encourage him to access the system, but they didn't follow that up with a mandate. Now, some campuses would have done that. Others would not have. We deal all over the country with a range of mental health services in the community, some of which are excellent and some of which kick the student right back to campus, 24 to 72 hours later and then we say what do we do now?

So, in many ways, the hindsight is really conjectural here. Maybe that would have been helpful to refer him to the courts, to go to the local police with the commitment laws in Arizona. But given the circumstances and what Pima knew at the time, it seems their actions were entirely reasonable.

PHILLIPS: Alan, I'm guessing you might argue because you've talked about clear indications that this kid was more than creepy if you looked at what he posted online from videos to threatening comments --

LIPMAN: Well, and more than that.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

LIPMAN: Direct behavior.

But, look, first of all I want to give respect to what Brett has said, that it is true that in all of these episodes, hindsight is 20/20. But we can't remove from that observation the actual symptoms that the person showed. And it's clear that while there are many people who can be defined as creepy, this was a guy who clearly to anyone who has seen schizophrenia - and laymen could be taught this -- he was showing the signs of mental illness.

Number one, these explosions in class weren't just a rebellious kid. He was saying random, out of control, delusional statements that any teacher could be trained in, for example, a gateway program are absolute signs of delusions. He was saying that the CIA was listening to him and that his mind was being controlled. Classic, indisputable, unavoidable, clear to the layman signs of schizophrenia.

He went through a psychotic break, which people witnessed at exactly the time when a person goes through a psychotic break. So my point is that, it didn't take someone from Yale. Friends, family, students -- a teacher was so afraid that if he turned his back, he felt Loughner would shoot him in the back. This was not someone who was seen as creepy; he was seen as a risk.

Now, it was true that the college did try to do its job in removing him from the community. But since Arizona has this unique law that says any person, a teacher, an administrator can refer them for a mobile assessment, an involuntary commitment. This person showed such clear signs, indisputable signs of mental illness, indisputable to anyone who's done this work over 25 years, that this was a case where tragically it could have been stopped.

Now, Brett, I'm with you. We won't get every one and hindsight is 20/20, but foresight can be 20/20 if we teach people to see the basic signs and show people how to question, persuade and respond. This could have happened here. The law was ready for it. Even the community center, the counseling center could have used the law, so we have multiple ways of intervening. This could have been prevented.

PHILLIPS: And bottom line -

SOKOLOW: That's true. It assumes that --

PHILLIPS: Yes, Brett, we're going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. I think the points are well made, you know, all of us have a lot to learn and to understand more about mental illness and also knowing the law.

LIPMAN: And I appreciate your work.

PHILLIPS: I appreciate you both. Alan Lipman and Brett Sokolow, thanks, guys so much. Good discussion.

LIPMAN: You bet, Kyra.

Starbucks coffee fans are rejoicing this new size. Well, they may be able to rejoice well into the night. Details on the new Trenta, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, HOST, "CONAN": Starbucks has made a big announcement. Starbucks is -- starting this May, Starbucks is going to offer an extra, extra large drink size known as Trenta. Yes, that's right. Starbucks says that Trenta is an Italian word meaning six more ounces of burnt coffee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Oh, come on, Conan. He may not be the biggest Starbucks fan, but I tell you what. If the line that I see in the CNN atrium is any indicator, there's definitely some huge java fans out there.

Elizabeth Cohen with me to talk about this new Trenta. But it's interesting the little misconception. We actually went down and asked for it today, he said something that it was just in the ice cream drinks or in the shake drinks.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's only in the iced drinks. You can't get a hot drink in the Trenta size. It's this ginormous size. Proud to say Georgia is one of the 14 states that they're rolling it out. So, you and I when we're done working can go grab a Trenta.

PHILLIPS: I don't know. This might - looking at the calories, and also my heart would probably be racing faster.

COHEN: That is true. You're absolutely right. Probably not a great thing for you in your condition.

So, here's a tall. PHILLIPS: Right. OK.

COHEN: That's what I think a lot of people get. And then you got your grande. Then you got your venti, like that's not big enough. This is not big enough! So you've got to have a Trenta.

(LAUGHTER)

COHEN: This is I think, like 32 ounces here, huge. And guess how much caffeine is in it?

PHILLIPS: Guess how much caffeine? Oh, boy, way more than I'm allowed to have on a regular basis.

COHEN: Way more than you're allowed to have even when you're not pregnant. 720 milligrams. This is a vanilla latte. 720 milligrams. That's more than 20 cans of Coke, of caffeine.

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: That's crazy! That's a lot of caffeine.

PHILLIPS: That could turn some employees into a little bit of a crazy mode. You see someone completely in convulsions. What about calories? I'm getting a little sneak peek here. I can actually see here. Holy moly.

COHEN: It's a lot. Let's do the tall first. A tall vanilla latte is 187. OK? Here, do you want to reveal the Trenta?

PHILLIPS: I don't have those fabulous green fingernails like you do.

COHEN: Oh, I know. It's Starbucks green, actually.

PHILLIPS: There you go! That's your 13-year-old daughter helping you with the nails. 499 calories. Can you believe it? 499 calories.

COHEN: And the thing is, you would sip that down and you don't -- experts tell me, like nutritionists tell me that we don't feel liquids filling us up the way we would feel solid food. So, you suck down 499 calories you don't feel it, the way you would for solid food.

PHILLIPS: But caffeine gives you that kind of filled feeling.

COHEN: Or crazy feeling, one or the other! I'm not sure what it is.

PHILLIPS: So, that's like a full meal.

COHEN: It is like a full meal. We went and searched for a meal that has the name number of calories. So, take a look at this. This drink has as many calories as a McDonald's Quarter Pounder with cheese.

PHILLIPS: Oh! I think I would rather have the Quarter Pounder with cheese.

COHEN: I know! Well, at least with the Quarter Pounder with cheese, not that I'm advocating that we all go out and have one - but a Quarter Pounder with cheese, it at least would fill you up. This wouldn't necessarily fill you up, so you're sucking down 500 calories and you don't necessarily feel satisfied. You still want that meal.

So, if you have this, just remember, you're sucking down a Quarter Pounder with cheese.

PHILLIPS: And by the way, What is this, like $5?

(CROSSTALK)

COHEN: It's probably pretty expensive.

PHILLIPS; It's expensive, it makes your heart race, it's way too many calories, I don't know.

COHEN: Right. Exactly. And also, you know what? I think people are thinking they're going to buy them and kind of walk around for the day with them. But I know I would just leave it somewhere, and then I would end up having to buy another one --

PHILLIPS: And all the ice melts.

COHEN: Right. Yes.

PHILLIPS: All right. Reality check. Thanks, Elizabeth.

COHEN: Thanks.

PHILLIPS: Well, calling it quits at the end of his term. A long-time senator announces his retirement. We'll tell you who it is in just a couple of minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, breaking news. Our John Zarrella who's been follow the story of "Baby Doc" returning to Haiti, has some developments for us. What do you know, John? What have you been able to find out?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Kyra, we're standing outside the Carribe Hotel, where Jean-Claude Duvalier has been holed up since his return here on Sunday. And just moments ago, a S.W.A.T. team went upstairs to the third floor, many of the men wearing black masks covering their faces. That had been -- that followed the entrance of a chief prosecutor who went up as well as the chief of police here in (INAUDIBLE) who also was upstairs along with a couple of attorneys. So a lot of comings and goings.

In the last few seconds, most of the members of the S.W.A.T. team had come back downstairs. They do not have Jean-Claude Duvalier with them. He is still upstairs. They have gone back to this armored personnel carrier where they are now standing, surrounded by members of the media. Although I can tell you, Kyra, that up on that third floor, several members of the S.W.A.T team are guarding the entrance to that hotel room and not letting anyone in or out.

We did talk with a (INAUDIBLE) of Duvalier's just a moment ago who told me there was never going to be a news conference today, Kyra. That what it was going to be was a statement being read by Duvalier, solidarity with the people, totally nonpolitical. Kyra?

PHILLIPS: And just quickly to remind people why we're following this, this was a man living in exile in France. A man who was violent, corrupt, tortured his political opposition. I mean, he was hated by so many Haitians and feared by so many Haitians, and then all of a sudden he just pops up in the country with his wife!

ZARRELLA: Right. After a quarter of a century, I think it's key to point out too, Kyra, that there are people here, at least the (INAUDIBLE) said that they were prepared - told us last night - prepared to file criminal complaints, human rights violations against Duvailier. And there was a meeting last night with members of the Preval government in which they were trying to discuss their options. But it was going to take a little bit of time to get the criminal complaint filing with the prosecutor here. It might not have happened yet.

And it's just speculation Kyra, but perhaps what they have done here - we're going to hopefully find out -- is sequester him in his hotel room, perhaps basically put him under house arrest so he can't leave here until some action can be legally taken against him. Because remember, the (INAUDIBLE) of what we understand, there's been no criminal charges at this point placed against Duvalier in the last quarter-century.

PHILLIPS: And as you mentioned, a S.W.A.T team just moving up those stairs among a number of other people, including attorneys. We will follow the story along with you. Our John Zarrella calling in to us there from Haiti. John, thanks so much.

Quick break. More from the CNN NEWSROOM, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL STEINHAUER, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hey, I'm Paul Steinhauser at the CNN Political Desk with some breaking news of our own right here in Washington. And this concerns Senator Kent Conrad, Democrat of North Dakota. Four terms in the U.S. Senate. He just put a letter out a few minutes ago saying, "I will not run for re-election in 2012." Earlier today, we got rumors of this and myself and Ted Barrett, our producer up on Capitol Hill, confirmed this story.

Why is this such a big deal? Here's why. The Republicans are going to try to win back control of the Senate in the 2012 elections. Now they have a very good shot at maybe winning back North Dakota. That's it from here, back to Atlanta.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

PHILLIPS: Oh, yes. You remember that, Carol. George Jefferson and his long-suffering wife Weezy finally moving on up. Out of "All In The Family." That debut of "The Jeffersons." Who could forget it? It first aired on CBS on this date in 1975. And helped solidify the term spin-off, becoming one of the most successful of its time.

And quick trivia question, what did George do for a living? Do you remember, Carol?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I do! He was a dry-cleaner.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: He owned a chain of dry-cleaners.

COSTELLO: Oh, that's right. He was more than just a dry-cleaner.

PHILLIPS: That's how he made the big bucks, baby! That was a great show. Good times during all of those shows.

You're going to have a good time now for the next two hours.

COSTELLO: I know. We have a bit of breaking news to tell people about. So it will be an interesting two hours. Thank you, Kyra. You have a great day.

PHILLIPS: You too, Carol.