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Peaceful Alexandria Protests Take Deadly Turn; Much Uncertainty For Residents in Cairo; Neighborhood Watches Being Formed as Looting Becoming a Real Concern
Aired January 29, 2011 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello. And I'm John Vause.
WHITFIELD: Unrest in Egypt is growing deadly. Protesters carry the victims through the streets as the death toll rises. The unrest forces Egypt's stock exchange and banks to shut their doors. And an old face worn in to be -- sworn in, rather, to be a new face of the government. A lot taking place there in Egypt.
VAUSE: Yes, a lot going on. It is nightfall there right now. CNN is in a unique position to bring you all the angles of this story. As you can see, we have several correspondents watching the action in Cairo and in Alexandria, Egypt. We're also watching the reactions from key positions around the globe, including Israel, New York and Washington.
The protests in Alexandria, Egypt, started out peacefully today, but they have taken a deadly turn. CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson filed this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's now half an hour since the curfew began. This is one of the army trucks here ostensibly enforcing the curfew. Everyone's on the streets. And on the side of the truck -- hi, guys. On the side of the truck, "Mubarak go (ph), is dead." The message here, the slogan on here, is "Mubarak, get out of the country." And this is painted on the truck of the army here.
Now, you were telling me you're a former general.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ex!
WHITFIELD: You're a general -- ex-general.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ex-general, yes.
ROBERTSON: So you think that the army is out here to protect the president, not the people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's the plan. Yes, it was, plan to protect him.
ROBERTSON: OK, thank you very much indeed. It's very nice talking to you. You have the handshake like a general, very strong. Thank you.
Well, that's just another opinion that we're hearing on the streets here. People have been very friendly with the army so far, but clearly, there's a train of thought that feels that the army is still at the moment really protecting the president and his interests, rather than theirs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one second, sir. Just one second.
ROBERTSON: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are Egyptian free people. We are not to be sold for the spoiled (ph) -- the businessmen, from the president and the head staff and his friends. They are all spoiled people. They stole our lands! They stole our jobs! They stole our future!
ROBERTSON: Thank you very much, sir. Everyone here -- everyone here wants to speak to us -- everyone -- sorry. Everyone has an opinion. And as you can see, some people would like to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mubarak must go out!
ROBERTSON: -- push to get their voices out and to get themselves on camera. But despite that, it is quite relaxed and it is quite friendly. But it's probably a good time to move on.
It's almost getting to be nightfall here in Alexandria now. The people are very clear in what they're saying. They want President Mubarak to go. They say if he's got any honor and dignity, he'll leave. And they're also saying if he was to leave, he'd (ph) go to Saudi Arabia (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Make a report!
ROBERTSON: I'm making a report right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Video report?
ROBERTSON: We're making a video report right now. What do you want to say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say that in his speech, he said, I will stay.
ROBERTSON: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ROBERTSON: Do you think he's going to stay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's challenging us and we're challenging him. He cannot have a curfew. (INAUDIBLE) We are staying here.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTSON: Thank you. So you're hearing it from the streets right here. He's challenged the people by saying, I'm staying --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's (INAUDIBLE)
ROBERTSON: -- and this man is telling me --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wants to calm us down --
ROBERTSON: He wants to calm you down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- by saying that he will stay.
ROBERTSON: By saying that he will stay.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not calming us down.
ROBERTSON: That's not calming you down. And that's what we're seeing here, people angry, and they're saying right now that he must go. The chant continues to be the same, "We want him out. We want him gone. Mubarak has to go." That's the message that comes out.
And the electronic part of the revolution here goes on. Everyone here, almost, is carrying their cell phone, filming what's going on, propagating their message around the country. The voices here in Alexandria are just getting louder and louder. There are people here now, like this gentleman, who are helping control the crowds. The message now is getting louder and perhaps a little more controlled.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Alexandria.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Well, a similar sentiment is unfolding, but in a different city and in a little bit of a different way --
VAUSE: Yes.
WHITFIELD: -- in Cairo.
VAUSE: Exactly. And we've been focusing a lot on the downtown area, where there have been those violent protests, the worst clashes in 30 years with police there, with those who are demanding that President Hosni Mubarak leave the country, or leave the government, rather. But we haven't actually focused a lot on the outlying suburbs.
WHITFIELD: That's right. In those suburbs, people have a voice and they want it to be heard. Our Fred Pleitgen has been on the streets of the suburbs of Cairo.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: While there's a lot of security presence and the army in the downtown area of Cairo, if you get out of the downtown area, large parts of the city are basically without any security forces. So we've seen a lot of people here who are banding together to try and protect their property, protect their homes, protect their families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no army, no one to prevent (SIC) us.
PLEITGEN: What happened to the police?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They disappeared.
PLEITGEN: How long are you going to stay out here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as the army come, as long as we can.
PLEITGEN: And you guys -- are you guys -- are you guys sort of all friends? Are you one family? What -- how does this work?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I have my cousins that lives with me. I have my neighbors. We have our friends, neighbors of the business (ph) down there. We're all making like one community to prevent the whole street, the whole area.
PLEITGEN: To prevent people from coming in here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
PLEITGEN: OK. And you're getting no help at this point from the police?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not at all.
PLEITGEN: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing.
PLEITGEN: The people tell us that guys like this, guys on the motorcycles, those are usually the ones who are doing the looting. Now, we've seen some who have passed here by carrying real samurai swords on their motorcycles. And every time the motorcycles pass, obviously, the guys here from the community watch. They come out and they threaten them and tell them, don't stop here. It clearly is a very, very difficult situation, with a lot of uncertainty for the people in the Egyptian capital.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Cairo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And of course, it is nightfall there in Egypt. And we're also hearing lots of reports of businesses being looted, exactly what a number of our correspondents have been saying, that residents are fearing that their businesses, their livelihoods, their homes will be damage through all this.
VAUSE: It was interesting when John Mann (ph) spoke with, I think, one resident in Cairo who has armed himself with a golf club.
WHITFIELD: Right.
VAUSE: Others have got baseball bats to try and protect their homes. So a difficult night ahead. It's seven minutes past 10:00 in the evening in Cairo right now.
WHITFIELD: All right, and we're going to check in with our Ben Wedeman, who is there now Cairo. And what's taking place? As it gets later there, are people retreating, are going in their homes, or are they still in the streets?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're seeing here is it's the quietest night we've had since these protests began. And I can tell you, I've spent most of my day not really focusing on the news but trying to make sure my family is OK. They live in the suburbs of Cairo, as well. And my wife has handed out baseball bats and kitchen knives to people on the street that we know, who've set up basically a neighborhood watch, barricades on both sides of the street. Everybody's calling around, checking with neighbors and friends to find out reports of what's going on. So this seems to be the real issue that's coming up.
There's been so much focus on these protests in the center of town, but outside the center, the real concern is the security situation. There's been extensive looting in almost all parts of the city. The police have essentially disappeared. The army is around here, but the army, I can tell you, is almost invisible in every other part of the city.
I've been getting calls from people I've never met who are calling to the CNN office to try to convey their concerns. One woman I spoke with, a single mother with four children ranging in age between about 6 and 20 -- she's armed her children with kitchen knives, barricaded the door. She says there's shooting outside. They're seeing people smashing car windows. We got her in touch with the Australian home office to try to reassure her and possibly get her some help.
But that really is the emerging story here. Outside the center of the city is the mounting worry that chaos is descending upon Cairo.
WHITFIELD: All right, Ben Wedeman, we're going to check back with you there in Cairo. And what's fascinating here -- this really underscores that so many people feel like they cannot discern between friend or foe, so they are protecting themselves, or as we heard Ben describe, handing out baseball bats and knives because they just want to protect themselves just in case.
VAUSE: Wife and three kids --
WHITFIELD: They're not sure what they're protecting themselves against.
VAUSE: -- at home. Yes. You know, the other thing to remember in all this -- there's a few hundred thousand protesters on the streets.
WHITFIELD: Sure.
VAUSE: That means there are still 80 million or so --
WHITFIELD: It's a huge country.
VAUSE: -- at home, terrified about what's going to happen next.
WHITFIELD: That's right. All right, and getting the information out about the unrest, what is and is not taking place as it pertains to the government -- Facebook, social media, Twitter, all of it playing an extensive role. And the U.S. State Department is also starting to sort through all of that to see exactly how the State Department can take advantage of or kind of read between the lines by way of social media. We're going to explore that technique when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, back in this country, as it watches what's taking place abroad in Egypt, the president, we understand, has just met with his national security team at the White House a couple of hours ago, and reiterating the focus of this -- of the United States in opposing violence and calling for restraint and supporting universal rights and supporting the concrete steps that advance political reform within Egypt. That coming from a statement from the White House as a result of that meeting with President Barack Obama with the national security team at the White House.
So meantime, watching the unrest in Egypt serves as a reminder of the power of the tweet and Facebook and other social media outlets. Let's bring in our CNN State Department producer Elise Labott.
So we know that the State Department has got its finger on the pulse, that social media in many ways has helped ignite or maybe even fuel the protests taking place in Egypt. So is there a division, an office, anything of the like that has been developed in the State Department to try and stay on top of the power of social media?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN SENIOR U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, actually, Fred, there is. And I'd say the State Department has really been at the forefront of kind of riding this Twitter revolution, if you will. When Secretary of State Hillary Clinton came in, she appointed what she called an adviser for innovation. His name is Alec Ross (ph), and he actually handled communications and Internet outreach for the Obama campaign.
And they've really been increasing the use of Twitter for all officials. You saw what happened with the protests in Iran after the election, the State Department really intervening with Twitter to make sure that they could stay up. And the State Department and the Obama administration has really been insistent on maintaining these Internet freedoms so that these protesters, these organizers and political groups can organize.
So I'd say now every State Department official is tweeting right now, and a lot of people in Egypt are following the tweets of State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley, who is sending U.S. messages to the protesters.
WHITFIELD: So in fact, one of the things we learned particularly as a result of Iran -- after that presidential election there, people took to the streets and they communicated their messages and they disseminated images via social media. And it brought about a scene that no one has ever seen before, particularly in Iran. And this -- what is unfolding in Egypt is in many ways mimicking what was seen and witnessed in Iran.
LABOTT: Well, it's this whole new technology. What they are calling it -- there's even a term for it now. It's called liberation technology. And these groups, civil society groups, are not only using it to organize, to where can we meet, sending messages on Facebook and Twitter where they can protest, but people in Tunisia are even sending tips to their fellow Arab brothers in Egypt about avoiding tear gas, what they can do, different types of tips they can share.
And also, it's really sending a message throughout the region. So once you see what happens in Tunisia -- they're using social media. They can see what's happening in Egypt, and the rest of the Arab world -- now you're seeing protests in Yemen. You're seeing protests in Jordan. It's really -- the spread of technology cannot be minimized in what's going on here.
And I think the Obama administration has really noticed that this is really important, and they're spending a lot of investment and money and time and technology to try and keep up with it, help drive it, and also make sure that the Egyptian and other governments don't crack down and block it.
WHITFIELD: Elise Labott from Washington joining us, the CNN State Department producer. Thanks so much for your time. Appreciate that.
LABOTT: Sure.
WHITFIELD: So also taking place in the United States will be some solidarity protests that are taking place, or demonstrations taking place.
VAUSE: People taking to the streets, supporting the people back home, a lot of Egyptian-Americans here in Atlanta, New York. Susan Candiotti has been watching a protest there in New York outside the United Nations. Susan, what are people there saying to you?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, John and Fredricka, people here are very passionate, they're very energized about getting their message out. And the bottom line is this. It doesn't matter who President Mubarak tries to name as part of a new cabinet, they said. None of it will work until he's gone. They want him gone, and they want anyone else even vaguely associated with him also out of the picture. They say that's the only way that Egypt can move forward.
Here to get some perspective on this is a political activist. You're a young filmmaker, as well. This is Sharif Samek (ph). You even brought your camera here today to document some of that. Do you really think that the support that you are trying to show from here has any impact on the people back in Egypt?
SHARIF SAMEK, FILMMAKER: Absolutely. I talked to some of my friends today, I talked to some of my family. I told them that we are coming here to rally in support of the people, in front of the United Nations, at the United Nations headquarters in New York, and people were very excited. They were very happy to hear that Americans are supporting them and supporting their right to freedom, supporting their right to justice, supporting their right to democracy.
CANDIOTTI: Is there a sense that the United States government should be playing a larger role? Can they play a larger role, in your opinion?
SAMEK: The United States government does play a large role to the tune of $2.3 billion a year.
CANDIOTTI: To the region, you're saying.
SAMEK: To Egypt. They give Egypt $2.3 billion a year. And it is that reason that we are calling on the United States government to side with the people. Mubarak has been a dictator, as you mentioned, for 30 years. And he has been largely supported by my tax dollars, your tax dollars, the viewers' tax dollars. It's very important for our American brothers to understand this, that we are paying to stifle democracy in Egypt and the Middle East. We do not support it, we stifle it. We need to change that.
CANDIOTTI: Thank you very much. We'll look to see the film that you're going to make on this one day, you said.
SAMEK: Yes.
CANDIOTTI: All right. Also briefly, the Sayeed (ph) family is also here from Staten Island. You brought the whole family here, I see. Why did you feel it important for the children to be with you to see this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we're making history. They have to know that when you're in the face of a dictator, you have to get your voices out. My family in Egypt are afraid for their lives because gangsters are on the streets attacking different neighborhoods. So the only -- we are frustrated, so we came out to get our voices heard in order maybe Mubarak and his regime would hear us from here, from New York.
CANDIOTTI: Can you predict a solution here? How do you see this coming out in the end?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see that Mubarak should naturally just, you know, step down and let the people govern themselves. We've been living in Egypt frustrated. All my teenage life was in Egypt, and it was very frustrating. I remember the long days when we were frustrated as teenagers. So I just want to see a new life, a new beginning for all the Egyptians, and maybe when we go back there, we would be, like -- we would feel that there's a change.
CANDIOTTI: But given his long history there, a dynasty it's been called, what realistic chance is there, in your view, that he would leave, go someplace else, stay there? How would this work?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we want to -- we want to judge him and his regime. We need to get the facts out. He cannot just step down and go anywhere. No, we need to judge them and to see why this was going on so long. And I think the power of the people is more powerful than anything else in the world. We believe in change, and that will happen eventually.
CANDIOTTI: Are you surprised about the rapidity with which this has happened, how quickly things are happening?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I'm not. The people are frustrated. They're angry. Once the anger comes out and they have overcome their fear, nothing can stop them.
CANDIOTTI: Well, thank you very much.
These are just a handful of more than 600 people who were at this rally that lasted for more than two hours this day -- very peaceful, very calm, no trouble, no arrests. But their message, they feel, was heard back home. And that is that there is a lot of support for what is happening there, the revolt. Where it will go, no one knows at this point, of course. But again, the message here is solidarity. Back to you, John and Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right, Susan Candiotti, thanks so much, outside the U.N. there in New York.
VAUSE: Yes, saying they want all of the old regime out. Omar Suleiman, the new vice president, certainly doesn't fit the bill on that one.
We also have some other news. More than a thousand travelers descended on Cairo airport after governments from the United States, Germany, France and others told their citizens to cancel all non- essential travel. Diane Kelley and her husband, along with 14 other tourists, are now stranded at that airport. She joins us on the phone. Diane, tell us, what have you been through today? What's been going on?
DIANE KELLEY, AMERICAN TOURIST IN EGYPT (via telephone): Well, we have been taken care of by some very wonderful Egyptian people, who would agree with everything that has been said. They are all (INAUDIBLE) of Mubarak leaving and a new regime being in.
We have had flights canceled. One of our guides' fathers was shot. We are stranded at the airport. We can't leave the airport because they are pulling people out of cars, and they're afraid we wouldn't be safe if we left the airport. We've had so far two flights canceled, and we're currently just waiting to see if we can get out of Cairo to any other place in the world. But it's very chaotic here and --
VAUSE: Do you think your security at the airport is safe at the moment?
KELLEY: I think -- I don't think anybody really feels 100 percent safe, but I think we're much safer than the people that are in downtown Cairo now.
VAUSE: When you were making your way to the airport through Cairo, you heard shots being fired. You say people were being dragged from their cars. How violent has it been?
KELLEY: On the news here, it looks like it's been a lot of violence. Unfortunately, most of the news that we get here is on -- not in English, so we don't understand a lot of it. And for a while, the television -- they -- people were coming in and actually turning even the -- turning the televisions off in the airport so that people couldn't see what was going on at the airport.
VAUSE: How long do you think you'll be --
KELLEY: (INAUDIBLE)
VAUSE: Sorry. Go on.
KELLEY: I'm sorry. And not being able to have cellular service or any Internet service for anyone was very frightening. People couldn't get to hospitals. People couldn't get any information whatsoever. So that was pretty frustrating.
VAUSE: Do you have any idea of how long you'll be stuck at Cairo airport before you can actually get out of the country?
KELLEY: No. We have no idea. Our latest flight was just canceled about 15 minutes ago. Most of us are on flights that leave in the morning, so we're here for the evening. And we just wait to see what tomorrow will bring. So we don't know. And we wish that -- we wish we were getting some more help from our government, actually. And the embassy -- but everyone seems to have their hands tied. I don't know how any of that will happen. But that's our biggest frustration, is that the people we're depending on are wonderful Egyptian people, and we can't seem to get any help from our embassy at all.
VAUSE: So what have you actually heard, though? You said you've heard gunfire. Is that actually near the airport, or was that when you went through Cairo itself?
KELLEY: I'm sorry. Could you say that again, please?
VAUSE: You say you've heard gunfire. Was there gunfire near the airport itself, or was that when you were traveling through Cairo on the way to the airport?
KELLEY: The gunfire was when our agent's father was shot. And it was near the airport, but I can't really tell you how close to the airport it was.
VAUSE: So the father of the travel agent was with you when he was shot? KELLEY: One of the guides -- one of -- yes. One of the Egyptian travel representatives that was with us, his father was injured. He left. So we have no idea (INAUDIBLE) their homes are being looted, as well.
VAUSE: Do you know who shot that man?
KELLEY: No. No. Because the agent has left to go home, and we haven't seen him since then, so we don't know.
VAUSE: OK. Diane Kelley on the phone there for us, stranded at Cairo airport with her husband, 14 other people. Fifteen hundred travelers have actually descended on the airport there, trying to get out of the country as this chaos takes over much of Egypt and certainly much of Cairo.
WHITFIELD: Unbelievably frightening moments.
VAUSE: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Obviously, Egypt enjoys tourism all year round --
VAUSE: One of the main earners.
WHITFIELD: -- one of the main resources of that income there. And now you've got a lot of people who are trapped because various countries have stopped -- many airlines have stopped their air travel in and out of Cairo or any other --
VAUSE: Delta's canceled flights.
WHITFIELD: -- major cities.
VAUSE: There was a British Midlands flight which was en route, had to turn back because the curfew was imposed. They had no way of getting people safely from the airport to their hotels. Yes.
WHITFIELD: Yes. So a big vacuum of information for a lot of people who are wondering --
VAUSE: Yes.
WHITFIELD: -- What's the directive, where do I go, what do I do right now?
We're going to have much more coverage on the turmoil and the clashes taking place in Egypt right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. I want to talk a little bit about why Egypt is such a strategic country in the Middle East. And one of the things which we need to be aware of is the relevance that Egypt has in as far as Israel goes because Egypt was the first Arab country which formally recognized Israel. President Hosni Mubarak has a very good relationship with Benjamin Netanyahu, the current prime minister of Israel.
So if Mubarak goes, the Muslim Brotherhood, for instance, which is the main opposition group, have said, well, you know, we'll put the whole peace treaty with Israel thing to a referendum with the people, and we'll let them decide whether or not that peace treaty should continue. So that's obviously a big concern for Israel and for the United States.
The other thing too is that Egypt has also -- has no love for Hamas, which is in control of the Gaza Strip. So that's a big plus for the Israelis. And once again, so if Mubarak goes, you have all of these issues of what happens to the Islamic insurgency in Egypt, what happens to that peace treaty.
And if the Israelis feel threatened, they will take their own unilateral action, which they have done in the past. So that's the concern.
WHITFIELD: And that really does underscore too why we haven't heard a formal statement coming from Israel. We've not heard anything coming from Hamas. We did hear the Palestinian Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, did make a short statement.
VAUSE: He supported -- he spoke out in support of Hosni Mubarak, because the Egyptians too, don't forget, have had a very critical role in negotiations for peace between the Israelis and the Palestinians.
I mean, you've always had these peace negotiation negotiations taking place at Sharm el-Sheikh, which is in Egypt. So the Egyptians do have a very vital role to play. And if there is upheaval there, there will be upheaval in Israel, and if there's upheaval in Israel, then you can think of Lebanon and Syria and Jordan and everywhere else in the region.
WHITFIELD: And still in that region we did hear from Iran's government taking a position on this, and really taking a page from lessons learned a couple of years ago when there were protests as a result of the presidential elections there. And we've also heard from Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah also making a statement too.
So it seems as though in the region, while everyone is in agreement that Egypt is very significant and a pivotal country there, everyone wants to tread very lightly because they know that words and word choices...
VAUSE: Are very important right now.
WHITFIELD: ... could certainly either reignite, further ignite, or potentially quell. So a lot of countries kind of taking a back (ph) on making firm statements.
VAUSE: And there's one other important -- yes, and there's another -- one other really important part in all this is that it's the Suez Canal. Now we haven't really spoken a lot about this, but there's a lot of trade, a lot of oil, a lot of goods all transport through the Suez Canal.
Now we've got a world economy which is only now just starting to recover from a really bad economic recession. If world trade is upset because it cannot go through the Suez Canal, think back to 1956, you know, when the English -- the British and the French, you know, invaded and there was a whole Suez Canal Crisis.
Think about what would happen now if the Suez Canal was upset because of instability in Egypt. So there are two really big issues about why this story matters way beyond the borders there.
WHITFIELD: And that really too could underscore why we saw the Dow in the United States -- the Dow dropping significantly as a result of...
VAUSE: Everything is connected.
WHITFIELD: Right. As a result of all that transpired, particularly on Friday when Hosni Mubarak went to the microphone and spoke to people in large numbers, spoke to the world, as a matter of fact.
So the chaos that's unfolding in the city of Cairo, take a look at some of the images that are coming out. And see what commonalities you see here. A lot of very young people. And we understand from teenagers to the 20-somethings out in droves helping in this effort.
VAUSE: What is really interesting about these pictures here is that these are not all men with beards who are chanting Islamic statements. These are young people in Western clothing who want democracy. They want self-determination. They want a better future. They want a better economy and they want jobs. These are the young people who are hoping for a better future.
WHITFIELD: And more on these young faces of Cairo next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield here with Ralitsa Vassileva. And what we're going to discuss right now is when you look at the images of the people who are leading the protests, people who have come out in huge force by the thousands in Cairo, in Alexandria, in other cities throughout Egypt, you will recognize a real commonality.
Many of them are very young, teenagers, early 20s. They're very social media savvy as well. And a lot of the images that you're seeing on the airwaves, thanks in large part to a number of these young people who have their cell phones, who are tweeting, who are conveying a lot of this information.
So, Ralitsa, give me an idea why and how is it that these young people have come together in this kind of unified force and they've got this directive, they've got this mission to get rid of this older generation in power.
RALITSA VASSILEVA, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, actually, it's a leaderless force that has sort of spontaneously come together. It's something unprecedented that we're seeing in the Middle East. And the reason that we're seeing those young people coming to the fore, they're non-ideological, they don't have leaders, they don't have any establishment, any hierarchy, it's frustration.
It's the fact that they want to shape their destiny, and the older generation is not paying attention to them.
WHITFIELD: Frustrated because of the poverty, frustrated that they are not getting jobs.
VASSILEVA: Exactly. The median age in Egypt is 24 years old. The unemployment rate close to 10 percent. Some say it's up to 40 percent for the young people. So they have it the worst in a country where the majority of the people are quite poor. The young have the worst.
And so they're out there in the streets. They want change. And let's hear it in their own words. I selected just a few comments from some young people. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some -- big problems in Egypt. It's OK. No work here. No eat. No independence. That's OK. All people very tired for that. We need change.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't want Mubarak please because Mubarak, he was -- he is a sneak. We need peace. I wanted to send a message to America, please don't help Mubarak, please. Because Mubarak, he will go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We hate Mubarak. We hate his current system. We love (ph) him -- do you think why he's fired his sole government right now, why? Because we don't like to make -- we don't like him. All Egyptians old emergency -- we don't like it this way. We hate him, OK? And anyhow, he will quit. He should quit. >>
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VASSILEVA: And there you have it. They want Mubarak out. This is not enough for them. They want a clean start. They don't want an establishment of people in their 80s, people who took power before most of them were even born.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Go ahead.
VASSILEVA: And they want this establishment to move on and for them to be able to shape their destiny. I wanted to bring you the opinion of one of the most influential voices, influential on the young people in Egypt and across the Middle East. His name Amr Khalid. He is a Muslim televangelist, a moderate.
Here is how he puts it. He says that the young people have not been listened to by this establishment and that's what this protest is about. They need respect in the future. Let's listen to the way he's explaining the protests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMR KHALID, EGYPTIAN ACTIVIST/TELEVANGELIST: Let me tell you first that the Egyptian youth 10 years ago, 20 years ago, nobody listened to them, no one respected them, no jobs for them. They have no hope, no dreams in their life. So what happened in this week, it's normal. They have to do that. They have a lot of problems. No one respects -- I'm serious about respect.
In '06 I ask the youth in the Middle East and in Asia, please send me your dreams for your country after 20 years from now. Can you imagine? I got 700,000 dreams. I asked them, what are the priorities? They said, we need jobs, we need to work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VASSILEVA: And these people, these young people have decided that they were going to move to make their dreams a reality. And we have seen this not just in Egypt. We saw it first in Iran about two years ago with a student-led protests...
WHITFIELD: People very outspoken.
VASSILEVA: Yes, using again social media, Twitter. They want change. They didn't succeed in Iran but they're still there. They're still frustrated. Sixty percent of the population in the Middle East is under 30 years old.
In Tunisia, they succeeded in ousting and autocratic president. We will see what happens in Egypt. But definitely they have decided that they will try to make their dreams a reality.
WHITFIELD: Well, that's one of the things that's so astounding here, because you heard from the young man earlier who was very outspoken. That is something that is not encouraged by an autocratic leadership like that of Mubarak.
And at the same time, you wonder if there has been this underlying sentiment for so long among these young people, what was the thing that made them feel so emboldened that now is the time that we're going to speak out in large numbers like this?
VASSILEVA: Well, a lot of people point to Tunisia. Basically, what happened in Tunisia, the fact that they were able to depose an autocratic president, let people let go of fear of security forces, of being imprisoned, of being brutalized by the police.
They have lost their fear. This is what we're seeing. And, again, it is a new force. We don't know what's going to happen. It has no leaders. It's led by the young people. It's not ideological.
We saw the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist opposition establishment, it didn't join these protesters until Friday. They have a different agenda. These people want a better future. The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood has an Islamist agenda, totally different. WHITFIELD: And that being considered also one of the significant groups in opposition and has long been established as...
(CROSSTALK)
VASSILEVA: The most significant outside of the government and the biggest one. They won at the best -- in the elections, they won 20 percent of the vote. That was their highest count that they were able to win.
But this is the establishment. There are some liberal, secular establishment opposition parties. But this is a totally new force with an agenda for a better life, young people.
WHITFIELD: All new territory in so many different ways.
VASSILEVA: All new territory, yes.
WHITFIELD: Ralitsa Vassileva, thanks so much. Good to see you. Appreciate it.
VASSILEVA: Pleasure.
WHITFIELD: So, of course, we've been listening to what you have to say about the crisis in Egypt. We're going to share your comments coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: A challenge by the people unlike anybody has ever seen before in Egypt, trying to dethrone, get rid of the leader of Hosni Mubarak after 30 years. Let's talk now about how Egyptians -- Egyptian nationals are seeing this Stateside.
Mona Eltahawy is an award-winning Egyptian commentator based in New York. Mona has been writing about the Egyptian upheaval and has described this as, quote, "the most exciting thing in her life."
Why do you say that?
MONA ELTAHAWY, EGYPTIAN COMMENTATOR: You know, I want to put it into a very simple perspective for your viewers, Fredricka. We're talking about a 30-year rule by a dictator, Hosni Mubarak, that is being brought to its knees in five days by tens of thousands of Egyptians.
And this happened just two or three weeks after the 23-year rule of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia by his people. It took Tunisia 29 days, it's taking Egypt five days. We're getting rid of autocracy. It's a wonderful...
WHITFIELD: Well, except that the president is still present, President Mubarak is still present. He says he has got a new government. But are you trying to read between the lines here that he is preparing this government for his departure?
ELTAHAWY: You know what they were chanting in Tahrir Square after he appointed Omar Suleiman as the vice president of Egypt? They were saying "no to Mubarak, no to Suleiman, we want to get rid of the regime."
This is not going down seriously with anybody in Egypt. Protesters have not been on the street in the tens of thousands so that Mubarak can just bring his friends into the regime. People want freedom and dignity from a dictatorship that has strangled Egypt for the past 30 years.
And believe me when I tell you that every Arab who writes to me through Twitter and through other social media that you have been highlighting has been telling me, go, Egypt, congratulations, because we want this freedom for the entire region.
This is an historic moment. I urge you to use the word "revolt" and "uprising" and "revolution" and not "chaos" and not "unrest." We're talking about an historic moment in the history of my people.
WHITFIELD: It really is quite astounding when you say that it's Tunisia. What took place in Tunisia took 29 days for the unrest to mean that the president would seek exile and how that helped galvanize this passion, this sentiment here in Egypt.
We're talking about a country of 80 million people. So how is it that something in such a tiny country of Tunisia could be powerful enough to ignite the fire in so many people in Egypt?
ELTAHAWY: What Tunisia did was it released -- it made free, it liberated the Arab imagination. The Arab imagination and the ability to know that we can do it, because when Egyptians saw Tunisians get rid of Ben Ali, they thought, wow, this is possible.
Let me give you another comparison, to put it into perspective. It took Ben Ali 26 days of uprising to call the armed forces on to the streets of the capital Tunis. It took Hosni Mubarak four days to call the armed forces. Why -- this is why I believe Hosni Mubarak is finished.
He called his armed forces in four days. The people in Egypt are winning. The future is winning. To be -- and I urge the U.S. administration to take the side of the people of Egypt, because that is taking the side of the future.
Let's look at the positive here. Yes, the looting that has been happening in Egypt is looting by the police force of Hosni Mubarak. People have stopped them in the street. They've stopped the looters and they've found their ID cards, and they are the police and the thugs of the Hosni Mubarak regime.
Egyptians are putting together neighborhood watches because they want to fix their country, Egyptians want to fix Egypt. They don't want to destroy Egypt. This is a positive moment. You can hear the excitement in my voice.
This is the best time of my life and I'm glad to be alive to see it. WHITFIELD: So then when you see images that we saw earlier where there were artifacts and antiquities museum that were damaged, when that place that holds I guess vestiges and artifacts of Egyptian history that goes back thousands of years -- when you see this kind of damage -- we're showing the images right now, is it your feeling that Egyptians would not be carrying this out, that it would be -- well, what would be the motivation of doing this?
ELTAHAWY: No, they are obviously Egyptians. But my point about the looting is that they're Egyptians that belong to the regime of Hosni Mubarak. Let me tell you some background about the museum. The museum has been in a state of disarray. It is unconscionable what they have done with the historic antiquities in that museum. And who has been in charge?
WHITFIELD: So you're saying this is symbolic of the Mubarak regime.
ELTAHAWY: Of course. Well, no, no, no, I'm not saying that they are destroying it because it represents the Mubarak regime. I'm saying these are thugs that operate under the control of the Mubarak regime.
The Mubarak regime has never cared about the museum. If the Mubarak regime cared about the museum, it would take care of the priceless items there. They don't care about it. They cared about the Pyramids because they took the money from tourism and put it into their own pockets.
But while we're talking about the antiquities, please, let me remind you, Egyptians love our country's antiquities, but the priority today must be Egyptian lives. Those thugs that are out there on the street for the Mubarak regime are being stopped by ordinary Egyptians who have put out neighborhood watches.
My priority as an Egyptian is to make sure that Egyptian lives are being protected. We value the antiquities of our country, but we want people to survive this revolution and lead Egypt forward. This is a positive time and Egyptians will take care of their country.
WHITFIELD: Mona Eltahawy, thanks so much for your time and your passion and your experience that you're bringing to the table here. Appreciate it.
ELTAHAWY: Thank you for having me.
VAUSE: And just to pick up on one thing that Mona did say, we do know that there has been looting going on in Cairo. We're not entirely sure it's the police. She was obviously very certain that it was. We don't know that for certain.
But we do know from our reports, Fred Pleitgen on the outer suburbs of Cairo, saying that people have set their own roadblocks because there is this concern because the police are not out in force. There is lawlessness now in parts of Cairo and other cities. But we don't know for certain.
WHITFIELD: Lots of images, lots of information, and that's part of the tricky part about this entire equation, is trying to discern and differentiate between the different kinds of information and images that we are getting.
VAUSE: Yes, this is still unfolding. And there's going to be a lot of information coming in that we can't confirm, we're working to confirm. Eventually we'll know exactly what happened and how it all unfolded, but you're watching it with us as we know it.
WHITFIELD: That's right. We're going to take a short break for now. We'll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back to our coverage. I want to give you some details now about Egypt and why it is so important in the Middle East. It's home to more than 80 million people, making Egypt the world's 16th most populous country.
The population is 90 percent Muslim and 9 percent Coptic Christian, 1 percent of Egyptians are members of other Christian churches. The median age is 24, which means most Egyptians weren't even born when Hosni Mubarak became president in 1981.
Even though Egypt is an ancient civilization, it was under foreign control for much of its history and it didn't become an independent republic until 1953. According to U.N. figures, Egypt's per capita income is just $1,800 a year.
The unemployment rate in 2010 officially was 9.7 percent, but analysts believe it was actually a lot higher than that, which is why we're seeing so many demonstrations right now. All of these people out on the streets demanding jobs, wanting better opportunities.
They want the government to stand down essentially because they just haven't had the jobs, they haven't had the economic progress that they have seen in other parts of the world.
WHITFIELD: Yes, it's the frustration that has just simply billowed in so many people. And, of course, we're going to continue to watch all that's taking place. Curfew in effect right now throughout Cairo, but still you'll hear from our correspondents there, our people.
VAUSE: Coming up to 11:00 at night in Cairo.
WHITFIELD: Yes. Still people on the street.
VAUSE: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. We continue to watch all that's unfolding in Egypt. We know that a curfew is in effect, but it's coming up on 11:00 at night.
VAUSE: 11:00 in Cairo.
WHITFIELD: And still there are a few people who defy the order and hit to the streets anyway.
VAUSE: And the big concern is the security situation because we've heard time and time again from our correspondents on the ground in Cairo as well as other cities that the police now are nowhere to be seen. They have simply melted away.
The army is out but it's not everywhere, and so one of the big concerns of the suburbs on the outside of Cairo. So Fred Pleitgen went out there to take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While there's a lot of security presence and the army in the downtown area of Cairo, if you get out of the downtown area, large parts of the city are basically without any security forces. So we've seen a lot of people here who are banding together to try and protect their property, protect their homes, protect their families.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no army. No one who prevent (ph) us.
PLEITGEN: What happened to the police?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They disappeared.
PLEITGEN: How long are you going to stay out here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As long as the army come, as long as we can.
PLEITGEN: And you guys are -- are you guys sort of all friends? Are you one family? How does this work? Are you guys...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have my cousins that live with me. I have my neighbors. And we have our friends, neighbors...
(HORNS BLARING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... down there. We're all looking after one community to prevent the whole street, the whole area.
PLEITGEN: To prevent people from coming in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly, exactly.
PLEITGEN: OK. And you're getting no help at this point from the police, especially?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not at all.
PLEITGEN: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing. PLEITGEN: The people tell us that guys like this, guys on the motorcycles, those are usually the ones who are doing the looting. Now we've seen some who have passed by here carrying real samurai swords on their motorcycles. And every time these motorcycles pass, obviously the guys here from the community watch, they come out and they threaten them and tell them, don't stop here.
It clearly is a very, very difficult situation with a lot of uncertainty for the people in the Egyptian capital.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Cairo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
