Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Dramatic Events Continue To Unfold In Egypt, With No Resolution, Protestors Defy Curfew, Mubarak Refuses To Step Down

Aired January 29, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So again, almost 11:00. 11:00 straight up, in fact, in Cairo and many parts of Egypt. We have already seen that there are - there is evidence of police officers in some jurisdictions and then it's the representation of the Egyptian army instead that is making itself present in the streets.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, of course, there's this curfew in place and people have been warned that it's dangerous to be outside. We're also being told there that has been looting, that maybe the police has been involved. That there's apparently no law enforcement in many parts of Cairo. That follows a day that saw some brutal clashes between protesters who are demanding the resignation of the president and the forces are actually sent out to disperse them.

WHITFIELD: We have correspondents all across the Middle East, in Europe and of course, in Egypt, covering this wide and changing spectrum of developments. You see it right there.

Ben Wedeman is joining us live actually from Cairo right now. Ben, it is late, just an hour away from midnight. Does that hour make any difference whatsoever on the streets there?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it does seem to be quieter at the moment, certainly in this area. I've been checking around various neighborhoods in Cairo speaking with people on the telephone and it does seem in most areas the situation has stabilized. In certain suburbs the Army has deployed in large numbers. In one suburb they apparently had a large gun battle with some of these looters.

Now, the looters, many of them were able to steal weapons from the arsenals of police stations that have burned down across Cairo. This morning I had to walk home because there were no taxis on the street. And I walked by party offices, the offices of the ruling party, police stations, all of which had been torched. I saw evidence of a lot of looting around the city.

And as what we've seen is as Fred in his report said, local people are putting together neighborhood patrols. Arming themselves with whatever they can. In my neighborhood, my wife passed out baseball bats, kitchen knives and clubs to people in the neighborhood, and as well as tea, to make sure that the area is protected, because this is the worry, that criminal elements that didn't have weapons now have automatic weapons and are roaming the streets of Cairo. But as I said, it does appear that people are organizing themselves. Calls are going out from the mosques for the young men in the neighborhoods to sort of keep a close eye on what's going on and to take decisive action if anybody tries to break into houses, apartment buildings and stores.

WHITFIELD: All right, Ben. And I wonder, you know, when you talk about people who are arming themselves, part of the real problem here, is it not, that a lot of the residents feel like they can't identify who's friend or who's foe?

WEDEMAN: No. And I've seen this in many places, in Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, just a few weeks ago in Tunisia. Everybody knows their neighbors. So anyone who is unknown to that neighborhood is not welcome. They're basically chased away, threatened with clubs and knives and whatnot because nobody is in the mood to have any strangers enter the neighborhood because they may well have very evil intentions.

VAUSE: And Ben, if we can just go back to some news you brought us earlier in the day about this transition of power from Mubarak, the president, to this now new vice president, Omar Suleiman, these are vestiges of the old regime. Is this what the Egyptian people will be satisfied with this or will we see a similar situation in Tunisia where the riots, the protests will continue until all of the old guard is actually kicked out of office?

WEDEMAN: Yes, of course, Omar Suleiman, the new vice president of Egypt, its first vice president since 1981, and Ahmed Shafiq, the new prime minister, are Mubarak's men. These are men who came for the fore largely as people very closely associated with the president and, therefore, it will be very difficult for them to present themselves as a new government, given their background.

But, as I said, the source within the National Democratic Party told me that the decision to appoint Omar Suleiman as the vice president could well be the beginning of a transition allowing the president to step down and putting in place somebody who knows the nitty-gritty, the nuts and bolts of this country because, of course, Omar Suleiman is the long-serving head of Egyptian intelligence who's played many roles as a diplomatic player and also in terms of internal security. So this is one bit of information coming from within the ruling party itself. John.

VAUSE: OK. Ben Wedeman live for us there. As we come up to just past 11:00 in Cairo, the interesting thing is if you look at dictators around the world, they don't often get to retire.

WHITFIELD: Right.

VAUSE: And that's what Mubarak wants right now, I guess.

WHITFIELD: Of course. He wants it on his terms. And one has to wonder during the first five days of this, which we are now at five days, during the first few days of this one had to wonder, because no one heard from him, if he was simply making a lot of phone calls, making sure - you know, wanting to know who his friends were across the world -

VAUSE: Working out where he was going.

WHITFIELD: If I'm going to leave where am I going to end up, what country will take me into exile. But as we have since learned yesterday, Friday, we heard Hosni Mubarak being one who was digging his heels in. That he's going to remain as president, at least for now, but appointing a new government.

So hundreds of people, Egyptian Americans and others, are rallying across the United States, in fact, at a number of solidarity demonstrations, one of which is taking place right outside the U.N. in New York.

VAUSE: Yes, many Egyptian-Americans are worried about family members and friends. Because we know that the cell phone communications have been cut. People can't call up, they can't get hold of relatives and friends. They don't know what's going on. They don't know whether they're safe, so this is a very stressful time for people outside of Egypt.

WHITFIELD: It really is. In fact, Washington, D.C., is also another location where there had been a demonstration taking place specifically outside the Egyptian embassy. Let's go to Sandra Endo, which we know the protest has since ended, but let's check in with Sandra to see exactly what transpired the whole time.

VAUSE: She sent us a report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Here in front of the Egyptian embassy in Washington, the crowd is energized, they are chanting, carrying signs, all in support and solidarity for the uprising in Egypt. This is one of many Facebook facilitated protests that have come together over the past several days and they want to show their strength and make sure their message is heard throughout the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like the light at the end of the tunnel, you know. It's something we've always wanted, we've always been hoping for, so it can't come soon enough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm also proud of the Egyptian people. I'm proud that they have finally stood up for themselves and are signing for a change after so many decades, what is it? 30 years now.

ENDO: The mood of the crowd here is upbeat. They're optimistic. There are a lot of smiles, a sense of hope and happiness that actual change will happen for Egypt.

Sandra Endo, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Well, Egypt didn't erupt into chaos overnight or by itself. The days we've been talking about when public anger will spread across Africa, where will it go to next.

WHITFIELD: And a short time ago, CNN's Jonathan Mann talked about that with Andrew Pierre, a senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDREW PIERRE, SENIOR FELLOW, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE: Well, Tunisia clearly sparked this, but it's a combustible situation in many countries in the Middle East and as far as the Egyptians are concerned, I think they were shamed by the success in Tunisia to undertake something similar, and it was, you know, coming in any case.

JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: How bad could this get in Egypt and elsewhere before this wave of protests, this demand for freedom is either answered or is crushed?

PIERRE: That's a very good question. And in my judgment, the answer depends on the role of the military and the extent to which conscripts and ordinary soldiers, even middle level officers are willing to kill their brothers and sisters, their colleagues and so on. I would say the situation in Egypt is that the very top echelons of the military are loyal and will remain loyal to Mubarak as long as he is around.

At the bottom level, you have the conscripts. It is a conscripted army. It's large, but they're in office - you know, they're military people for two years or so and I don't know that they will be able - willing to shoot their brothers and sisters and families on the streets.

So their loyalty I think is uncertain and then the pivotal element of the army is the middle level officer core, which will probably be torn between receiving orders and loyalty to the top, which is probably on its way out over time and the conscripts and the people and so how far this can go in terms of deaths and destruction and so on, I think will depend a great deal on the extent to which the military remain loyal to Mubarak in Egypt and the same I'd like to add applies to Iran, where we've seen the last few months, certain (INAUDIBLE) within the revolutionary guard in Iran.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Andrew Pierre with a conversation with our Jonathan Mann.

So, of course, people around the world are watching, but none perhaps or country more closely than Israel.

VAUSE: Yes, a lot at stake for Israel about what happens next in Egypt, who replaces Hosni Mubarak should he in fact step down, should he leave the country. We'll have a live report out of Jerusalem about what all this means when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAUSE: I want to go back to Cairo here. Dina Amer has been visiting her parents in the city and she joins us now on the phone. Dina, I understand that you've been there visiting your parents. Houses around where your parents have lived have actually been ransacked, is that right?

DINA AMER, CAIRO RESIDENT (ON THE PHONE): Yes. Actually right now looking out my window and there are citizens, my own brother in fact downstairs with kitchen knives, with wooden sticks protecting themselves, creating their own checkpoints and trying to block off, you know, random cars arriving. Because we've received numerous calls around the area warning about trucks filled with mobs that are just breaking loose and looting and just creating a large amount of chaos in the neighboring area.

It's very, very surprising, alarming because I live in the heart of the suburbs out of Cairo, (INAUDIBLE) and the president only lives a 10-minute walk from where I live and the national guard is also here as is the minister of defense, so it's an area that's always heavily guarded with police officers and it's extremely safe.

So we had no - not even an inkling of any sort of like fear about our safety when all this commotion was arriving. But now, you look around and it's a ghost town. There's not one police in sight. And then there's not any patrols around the area. It's just citizens creating their own militias and protecting our own buildings, our own properties.

VAUSE: So you say that there's no police officers where you are right now, there's no security apart from what local residents are doing. Do you know who in fact has been responsible for the looting?

AMER: Well, I mean we've received calls saying that it's thieves from kind of a neighboring area around the city that have seized the moment, that there is a bit of like instability and tried to loot and take what they can. And also I mean, there's a little bit of hearsay that this is somewhat instigated by the Mubarak regime to kind of tarnish the image of the protesters who up till now have had a very clean image of being very civilized, being very peaceful and now all of a sudden it has created a widespread panic and fear for each person's property and for their own safety.

So everyone is kind of gone into their homes and men are standing outside each building and protecting us. It's quite alarming.

VAUSE: I guess the question has to be asked that if there are no police there, if there are no soldiers there, if President Hosni Mubarak cannot control the security 10 minutes away from where he lives, it begs the question, who's in control of the rest of the country?

AMER: I know. But the thing is I highly doubt that Hosni Mubarak actually is in his residence here in Cairo. I think he's probably in (INAUDIBLE) or another city outside of Cairo because no way would he allow for this whole neighborhood that's right next to where he lives to be completely on guard and open for hooligans. And I mean, my brother was just downstairs protecting us with a kitchen knife. He had heard calls from around the area that two minutes from where they are that they ransacked buildings, actually went in and ransacked everything.

So it's really not safe. And everyone is quite worried. And it's very - it's an unprecedented even feeling to have this in Egypt because Cairo in terms of safety and security has never been an issue. It's an extremely safe city. People, you know, leave their doors open. No one fears, you know, in terms of being attacked by random hooligans. So this is really unprecedented. A new experience.

VAUSE: Yes and not a good one, I can imagine. It's coming up to 20 past 11:00 at nighttime in Cairo right now. So I guess, Dina, this is now a matter for you and your family to simply stay awake to try and stay safe and wait for the sun to come up? Is that how you are dealing with this?

AMER: I mean, it's very hard to get any sleep right now because there's been a fundamental break in the social fabric of, you know, the society where there's a great deal of mistrust about other citizens, just other people walking in the street and people - no one knows who each person is and what their intentions are. So I don't - can't imagine that many people are going to be receiving much sleep tonight.

VAUSE: And when you look out your window and see the houses that have been ransacked and looted, what are these people taking? What's being stolen? Is it pretty much anything that isn't nailed down?

AMER: Exactly. TV sets, computers, whatever can be taken down.

VAUSE: And it's fairly indiscriminate too by the sounds of things?

AMER: Yes, you know, I've been calling other friends in other suburbs around the city, and it's the same - it sounds like the same scenario, where families, men of each household are going downstairs, joining others and creating their own militias, taking the security into their own hands.

VAUSE: Sure. Is it just theft so far or has there been any word of attacks on residents? Has it been acts of violence that you've heard about?

AMER: There has been - this is very different. In fact can you repeat the question.

VAUSE: Have there been any attacks on residents? Have there been any acts of violence so far by these looters?

AMER: No, so far I haven't heard of any acts of violence on the looters.

VAUSE: So they're just stealing whatever they can get.

AMER: Yes.

VAUSE: So this seems like a moment of opportunity.

AMER: Absolutely. There's a great deal of instability in the country at this moment.

VAUSE: OK. Dina Amer on the line for us in Cairo. She's been there visiting her parents and obviously a sleepless harrowing night for her because of what appears to be a complete breakdown of security in Cairo, in those outlying areas as well as in other cities, like Alexandria and Suez. We got another seven hours before first light. So -

WHITFIELD: And the mistrust, underscored.

VAUSE: That's scary.

WHITFIELD: Very frightening.

All right. Well, Egypt's importance has a lot to do with its geographical location. Let's take a quick look at the map right now. On the north edge of Israel, the border, there has been a trouble spot in the past providing a route for terror groups like Hamas to funnel weapons into Palestinian territories. The Suez Canal and then the Red Sea formed a major shipping route linking Europe and Asia and that, of course, includes a very valuable commodity of oil.

Around 10 percent of all goods shipped by water actually go through the Suez canal. And then take a look just to the east if we can bring that map back up again you will see Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran. All of it clustered together there. And each of the countries offering their own set of challenges and sentiments on what's taking place.

VAUSE: That's a pretty tough neighborhood when you think about it.

WHITFIELD: Pretty tough neighborhood. So Egypt just a slice of history now, signed a peace agreement with Israel three decades ago and remains an ally that is very important and pivotal for the U.S. in particular.

And so joining us right now from Jerusalem is CNN bureau chief Kevin Flower where both the Israelis and the Palestinians are closely following these unfolding events. Last we spoke a couple of hours ago, no sentiment, no direct sentiment coming from Israel on what's taking place in Egypt. Has anything transpired since?

KEVIN FLOWER, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: In a word, no. A deafening silence from the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu here. We've heard nothing officially from the government. They have said that they're watching events closely in Cairo and the rest of Egypt but they are refraining from comment at this time. We did hear earlier from a member of the (INAUDIBLE) and a former cabinet minister, Benjamin Ben (INAUDIBLE) who is close personal friend to the Egyptian president, Hosni Mubarak.

He told Israeli television earlier today that he had spoken to the Egyptian president, and that the Egyptian president had told him that this is no Beirut, this is no Tunis and that the army would have things under control. It was a sentiment by Ben (INAUDIBLE) shared in his comments to Israeli media. He said he believed that the Egyptian president, the government, would stand firm. But the events in the past couple of days, there are a lot of doubts being expressed at least here in the media about what's going to happen in Egypt. Will the government of Hosni Mubarak last. And these are really crucial questions for the Israeli government, as you mentioned. It has had this crucial strategic relationship with Egypt for the past 30 years, a stable ally. Israel doesn't know going forward if that's going to hold, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And why is the Palestinian authority willing to speak out on this and what kind of support might Mahmoud Abbas be throwing the way of Egypt?

FLOWER: Well, I think it's more sort of emotional support if anything else. The Palestinian president - or the president of the Palestinian authority, rather, he called Hosni Mubarak this morning in a phone call. He said to express his solidarity with Egypt and his commitment to its security and its stability.

There is not much the Palestinian president can do for Hosni Mubarak at this time. It's an expression of support more than anything else. The Egyptians have had a very close relationship to the Palestinian authority, been very supportive of them and their past efforts to reach some sort of negotiated settlement with Israel.

So I think that's really what that is. But both sides, Israel, the Palestinians both and the Palestinian authority and the Palestinians in Gaza ruled by the Hamas movement are watching these events incredibly closely. No one really knows how this is going to turn out, how it's going to change things strategically here in this crucial region. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Kevin Flower, thanks so much in Jerusalem.

And John Vause here alongside me here in Atlanta. You spent a significant amount of time as a correspondent based in Jerusalem, so when you reflect on the region and how pivotal all that transpires with Egypt is for the entire region, when you think about the Israeli relationship -

VAUSE: Yes.

WHITFIELD: What stands out for you?

VAUSE: Well, right now if I was an Israeli, if was sitting at home in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, I would be very nervous. Because if you look at the whole foundation for Israeli foreign policy, ever since that peace treaty at Camp David in 1978, which was signed by Anwar Sadat and Menachim Begin, ever since that happened, that's been the cornerstone of Israeli foreign policy. That's been the entrance into the Arab world that paved the way for a peace treaty with Jordan and that has been the bedrock.

So if there is a change of leadership within Egypt and it opens up the doors to who knows what, instability is never a good thing as far as this neighborhood is concerned. So if the Israelis feel that there is new leadership in Egypt which would put that peace treaty in any kind of doubt, then what the Israelis do next is very unpredictable. We've seen Israel take action in the past to protect itself. It will do what it needs to do to survive.

WHITFIELD: They had similar reasons or legitimate reasons at the time to wonder about whether that cornerstone was going to be crumbling as a result of the assassination of Anwar Sadat. However, there was some reassurance that they would be able to stay on track with this accord.

VAUSE: Exactly. When Mubarak took power - this is actually one of the big problems right now. When he took power it was all about stability, steady as she goes. You know, he's not a great reformer, he's not a great visionary. He was never going to be this wonderful leader. He was always going to be slowly as she goes. It's all about stability. And that's why he's having so many problems now because it has been too stable. There hasn't been enough progress. There hasn't been enough reform in Egypt.

But for the last 30 years the country was very stable which meant that the peace treaty with Israel, which many Egyptians don't particularly like, was very stable.

WHITFIELD: We're going to talk more about this and other matters as it pertains to the crisis in Egypt right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to CNN. Egypt in Crisis. Here's what we know right now.

VAUSE: Tens of thousands of protesters have defied Egypt's curfew and are filling the streets demanding Hosni Mubarak step down after nearly 30 years in power.

WHITFIELD: Police reportedly opened fire on demonstrators both in Cairo and Alexandria. Egyptians say television is reporting 38 people have been killed.

VAUSE: Of course, there are unconfirmed reports that many others have died. Mubarak is still in power, but the opposition leader, Muhammad Elbaradei says it's time for him to leave.

WHITFIELD: On to now the protests in Alexandria, a northern Egyptian city. It started out peacefully today, but then it took a deadly turn.

VAUSE: Nic Robertson our senior international correspondent, he has been reporting from there for the last day or so. He sent us this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INT'L. CORRESPONDENT: It's now half an hour since the curfew began. This is one of the army trucks here ostensibly enforcing the curfew. Everybody is out on the streets. On the side of the truck -- hi, guys. On the side of the truck, "Mubarak, go. Is dead." The message here, the slogan, on here is "Mubarak, get out of the country." This is painted on the truck of the army here.

You were telling me you're a former general. You were a general, ex- general.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ex-general, yes.

ROBERTSON: So you think the army is out here to protect the president, not the people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That's the plan. That's the plan to protect him.

ROBERTSON: Thank you very much indeed. It's very nice talking to you. You have the handshake like a general, very strong. Thank you.

Well, that's just another opinion that we're hearing on the streets here. People have been very friendly with the army so far, but clearly there's a train of thought here that feels that the army is still at the moment really protecting the president, and his interests, rather than theirs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one question, sir?

ROBERTSON: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are Egyptian free people. We are not to be sold for the businessmen, from the president, and his staff and his friends. They are all spoiled people. They stole our lands, they stole our jobs, they stole our future.

ROBERTSON: Thank you very much, sir. Everyone here, everyone here wants to speak to us, everyone. Everyone has an opinion. As you can see some people would like to push to get their voices out and to get themselves on camera.

Despite that, it is quite relaxed, and it is quite friendly. But it's probably a good time to move on.

It's almost getting to be night fall here in Alexandria now. The people very clear in what they're saying. They want President Mubarak to go. They say if you've got any honor and dignity, then leave. They also say if you want to leave, then go to Saudi Arabia. It's waiting for you. This is the message that they say they're going to keep on saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want you to make a new report.

ROBERTSON: I'm making a report right now. We're making a video report right now. What do you want to say?

(CROWD CHANTING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to say that in his speech he said I will stay. Three times he said I will stay. ROBERTSON: So you think he's going to stay?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's challenging us and we're challenging him. He cannot have a curfew. We are staying here. He's ordering us, he's not the president anymore.

(CROWD CHANTING)

ROBERTSON: Thank you. So you're hearing it from the streets right here. He's challenged the people by saying he'll stay. And this man is --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wants to calm us down.

ROBERTSON: He wants to calm you down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By saying that he will stay.

ROBERTSON: By saying that he will stay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not calming us down.

ROBERTSON: And that's not calming you down.

(CROWD CHANTING)

ROBERTSON (SHOUTING OVER CHANTING): And that's what we're seeing here, people angry and they're saying right now -- the chant continues to be the same, we want him out, we want him gone, Mubarak has to go. That's the message that comes out on the electronic part of the revolution goes on. Everyone here almost is carrying their cell phone, showing what's going on, propagating their message around the country. The voices here in Alexandria are just getting louder and louder.

There are people here like this gentleman who are helping control the crowds, the message now getting louder, and perhaps a little more controlled. Nic Robertson, CNN, Alexandria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: As you can see there the density of these demonstrations is very impressive.

VAUSE: Great report there from Nic. What was interesting, though, is we're coming up to Sunday and in Egypt Sunday is the start of the working week. So all those people who were in Alexandria, will they still be on the streets tomorrow, or will they go to work? Will this momentum keep going, will they disperse? Will they go back to work?

WHITFIELD: So hours away from daylight, maybe six hours from daylight to see if the work day indeed begins. All right. We'll have much more on the crisis in Egypt right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

VAUSE: And I'm John Vause.

Now we have some new information coming out of Washington. U.S. President Barack Obama met with his national security team today in the situation room. He was briefed on the latest coming out of Egypt. This is a very awkward position for the United States right now. Hosni Mubarak a long-term ally has provided stability in the region on the one hand. On the other hand, you have all these protesters who are demanding self-determination, demanding freedoms, demanding political reform, all of these values that the United States stands for. So the question now is where does the U.S. put their efforts? Do they back the reformers, do they back Mubarak? We've heard from the U.S. president basically saying that Hosni Mubarak simply cannot reshuffle his government. He fired them all basically. And not move forward on reform. So this is the big issue now for the U.S., very awkward position.

WHITFIELD: Yes, very awkward. Especially since it was only a couple of years ago when President Barack Obama was in Cairo, and he was talking about those very principles that you heard, the rousing cheering crowd of those college students there in Cairo, really embraced hearing. And here, many of them, fast forward a couple of years are exercising that very thing, the foundation of those principles.

Of course I don't -- it's very difficult to know whether the White House or even the State Department were able to be that prophetic a couple of years, down the line, that this would ignite in this kind of way. But we did hear from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just a couple of weeks ago say that poverty is at the root of political unrest. And here this is being demonstrated in Egypt right now.

VAUSE: The other problem, too, for the Obama administration and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, is that she gave a very important speech not so long ago calling for Internet freedom, and the freedom of information, and how crucial it was. That was actually directed at China at the time. But now we're seeing a U.S. ally cutting Twitter, cutting cell phone, cutting down the Internet. Actually it was pretty simple in Egypt.

WHITFIELD: But after the fact.

VAUSE: Exactly. But they just pulled out the Internet service providers, because there's only four of them. So it was fairly simple. You could never do this in the U.S. But this was a very crucial speech about the freedom of information and how important that is. Now you have this ally doing exactly what she warned countries not to do.

WHITFIELD: Exactly. We're going to continue to watch all that's taking place in Egypt and let's talk about the U.S. State Department's role in all of this. CNN State Department Producer Elise Labott is back with us now.

While we have heard from president of the United States, Obama, who spoke shortly after President Mubarak hit the air waves on Friday. At this point you have to wonder what is the role of the U.S. State Department and the foreign interests, the American interests, that remain in Egypt, by way of American diplomats there, and even Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. What kind of communications would be taking place now between the State Department and Egypt's Mubarak's government?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN SR. PRODUCER, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, Fred, you have a lot of different conversations going across all levels of the government. Obviously, the president met with his team today, but the U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Margaret Scoby (ph) is in constant contact with the State Department, really helping them to assess, not just the situation on the ground, the protesters, what is this movement all about. But also what the thinking is inside the government. And also trying to think about where do we go next? What should we be doing? Should we be making more statements forward-leading towards the protesters or should we give the president a little more time to see if he's going to implement those changes that President Obama and the rest of the U.S. government has been really asking for.

So I think the State Department, right now, is really going to be the key as to their not only interactions with the ,government, but also dealing with other countries in the region. And really the interaction day to day with various people across the Egyptian government and throughout the U.S. government, as a whole in dealing with the White House, and how they want to proceed.

WHITFIELD: And it was very clear, Elise, that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was very careful with her word choice a couple of days ago, as was the President of the United States yesterday, and also challenging Mubarak to follow through with his words.

LABOTT: Well, it's just exemplifies that real fine line that the administration has to walk right now. On one hand they don't want to give Mubarak a free pass. You heard some very tough words about the need for change. But they really don't know how this is going to end up. How does the United States protect its interests with a regime that might be dying. We don't know if it's going to die. If Mubarak stays in power, they still have to deal with him. At the same time they are cognizant of the fact they want to be on the right side of history. They don't want to say anything that suggests regime change, but really want to stand with the protesters making sure there's not a massive crackdown, continued arrests, continued blocking of the Internet.

So they're continuing to walk this very fine line. But I think if the Mubarak government does not constitute some real meaningful reforms, not just as we've been saying a reshuffling of the deck, but also a national dialogue, inclusion, job creation, things that the people are really looking for, I think the Obama administration is going to continue to ramp up the pressure. We've heard that U.S. aid is at stake, billions of dollars in U.S. aid. And I think that the administration-

WHITFIELD: The White House underscoring they are reassessing that billions in aid. LABOTT: Exactly, exactly. White House Spokesman Robert Gibbs says there's going to be a review of the aid. As you know, not just billions of dollars in military aid but development assistance. The U.S. has a lot of leverage here in terms of its aid. It also has a lot of leverage in terms of the messages that it's sending about its support for Mubarak. Right now the message is we're not going to cut you loose, but if you don't institute reforms, you'll see how quickly we can soften our language in support of you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Elise Labott, thanks so much, State Department producer for joining us there, from Washington.

VAUSE: Egypt is the second largest recipient of U.S. aid, a long way behind Israel, but that gives the U.S. at least some leverage over what happens, and it may have given enough leverage for Mubarak to come out and at least change his government and move along that path of reform.

WHITFIELD: Anywhere between $1.5 billion and $3 billion collectively of U.S. aid.

VAUSE: That's a lot of money.

WHITFIELD: Well, this question is being asked all over the world with increased urgency. If Mubarak were to step down, who will step in?

VAUSE: We'll try and find out the answer when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In response to the protests engulfing much of Egypt, long- time President Hosni Mubarak said to his government, it's time to resign.

VAUSE: Exactly. But he is not going anywhere. He's not stepping down. So Brian Todd reports on what happens if Mr. Mubarak, if he leaves, who will fill that power vacuum?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): On the streets, in their Twitter and Facebook messages, the young catalysts of the uprising in Egypt leave no doubt about their objective, to drive out an 82-year- old president who's ruled them with an iron hand for as long as many of them have been alive. But that presents a problem. Hosni Mubarak has been in power so long, he'd leave a gaping void, which could be exploited by several militant groups that he's been crushing for decades.

BRIAN FISHMAN, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: If there's a period of real instability in Egypt, will that create an opportunity for some of these old groups to sort of reinvigorate themselves? I think at this point there is no sign of that, but I'm sure that is something we do need to be aware of.

TODD: Brian Fishman and other experts point to groups that have been banned by Mubarak's government, like the Muslim Brotherhood. The Brotherhood lived by the gun long ago, but in recent years has become much more moderate, moved away from violence, and toward providing social services through Islamic charities. Still, there are other Egyptian opposition figures who favor a more brutal approach.

MARK GINSBERG, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO MOROCCO: Ayman Al Zawahiri, the number two in Al Qaeda was an Egyptian. He still has an enormous following in Egypt among very radical Islamic extremists.

TODD: Al Zawahiri has been gunning for Mubarak for decades. And experts say he make a public statement during these protests. But he is on the run and his old group, Egyptian Islamic Jihad has been absorbed into Al Qaeda. Another faction called the Islamic Group has massacred tourists and once came close to assassinating Mubarak.

(On camera): But experts say many of its members are hiding out with Al Qaeda in Pakistan. And it's spiritual leader, Omar Abdul Rhaman (ph), also known as the Blind Shaikh, is serving a life sentence in the U.S. for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.

(Voice over): These groups are down, experts say, but not necessarily out.

(On camera): Do you foresee a scenario where militants could rise up and actually take some power or influence? What's that scenario?

FISHMAN: I think the danger scenario here, where jihadi groups and military groups might be able to increase their influence in Egypt, is if the government crushes these protests violently in a way that doesn't create any reform.

TODD: Then, says Brian Fishman, Al Qaeda and other militant groups might jump in and tell Egyptians that peaceful protests don't work and that violence is the only way to bring the change you want. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: The question that they're really asking, after all of this, is this an Islamic Revolution or an Islamist revolution. Will this just be a revolution--

WHITFIELD: Good distinctions.

VAUSE: A revolution in the Muslim world or will there be more radical members take over like from the Muslim Brotherhood. What happens next?

WHITFIELD: Good questions to ask. And what was the role that social media played in all of this?

VAUSE: It was huge.

WHITFIELD: Huge. It was quite significant. Even when the government has tried to suppress the communications by way of Twitter, Facebook, texting, all of that, people are still communicating. We're going to expound on that a little more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to CNN. Social media: It has been a galvanizing force in all that's transpiring in Egypt.

VAUSE: But this isn't just a matter of a few Tweets getting out here or there.

Josh Levs, you're going to break this down for us. How has this actually worked? We've seen it in Tunisia, where it worked successfully, didn't work so well in Iran, so here in Egypt what's been happening.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yeah, it depends on the results you're looking for. If the results you are looking for people trying to get information out, get their pictures and video out, get basic information out, you do find in some cases that they manage to do it. And some people out there would say, hey, they managed to succeed even inside Iran.

Clearly big picture, is you can see there are times the government has tried to shut down communication. This shows you what happened just after the 27th. This is on CNN.com, right now. It shows you Internet activity inside Egypt. This from a group that monitors this, Arbor Networks. It keeps going up. You get past the 27th and, boom, it dropped all the way down to that little trickle.

So what happened was people began to find that they couldn't access the Internet, they couldn't get information out. But that little trickle of information that did get out managed to be amplified all over the world. People who are sharing those images, those videos, those stories, are still getting it out so there's no such thing in this era as a complete shutdown.

I mentioned earlier that we'd show you some of the Tweets going on right now with respect to some of the concerns about what people are calling chaos, concerns about looting, concerns about security in general, in various areas. Take a look. I just pulled up a few that were sent to us by viewers say pay attention to this one. This one talked about reports of there being gunfire near Casa El Kova (ph), the presidential palace. This is a good example of what's happening. A lot of people are sending out this kind of information. It can't always be verified right away, but there are some people inside Egypt who are continuing to get some Tweets out.

Here's another one I wanted to show you. This one saying Cairo residents are forming groups to protect each other. Have already seen police badges hidden on looters. Now part of what we have going on is some people getting their Tweets out from inside Egypt. What we also have is officials around the world using Twitter to send messages.

One thing we've been following today, P.J. Crowley out of the State Department. Let's zoom in here. He sent out several Tweets that made news all over the world. Let's zoom way in, they can see it.

The Egyptian government can't reshuffle the deck and then stand pat. President Mubarak's words pledging reform must be followed by action.

So governments are using Twitter as well. One more thing to tell you as we follow these interactives is we at CNN iReport have been getting lots of videos. Take a look at this one right here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROWD NOISES, GUNSHOTS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

And that came to us today from our iReporter, Kristian Johansson. He said that he's been managing to take these videos and he's been in touch with us. He's been sending lots of videos of what's going on there. What's happening is people who are getting access are managing to send these all over the world. And any efforts to block this kind of thing just in the end, there's no such thing as a 100 percent block these days.

We'll keep following your Tweets, your messages on Facebook, the Facebook pages you're following. I've got my screen up here for you. Once I showed that a couple of hours ago, immediately I got hundreds of posts from so many of you, who are following all these developments on social media.

I will be along next hour, guys, to talk about how technology in general is revolutionizing revolts. We'll have that conversation.

WHITFIELD: All right, Josh Levs, thanks so much. I know you're going to be around next hour.

John Vause, it has been great working with you. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

VAUSE: It has been my pleasure.

WHITFIELD: It has been significant in so many ways, talking with so many people with different perspectives on this. One of those that stands out is the Egyptian writer living in the U.S. who says this exemplifies a liberation of Arab imagination. I know you'll be following it throughout the evening.

VAUSE: I'm here for another hour. Stay with us on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)