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A Sense of Normalcy in Cairo Today; President Obama Speaks to Chamber of Commerce; Drugs Smuggled On Flights; George W. Bush Threatened With Charges; Assange in London Court; Deadly Frat House Shooting; American Hikers in Iran Appear in Court; The Six-Year-Old Boy Behind the Mask; Mark Kelly's Back at Work; The Arizona Immigration Debate; Defining a Citizen; AOL Acquires Huffington Post; Gay Parents In The Bible Belt; White House Briefing

Aired February 07, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks very much. I'm Martin Savidge, in for Ali Velshi. It's 10 a.m. on the West coast, and one p.m. on the East Coast. You're looking at a live look inside the White House where, at any moment, the White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs will hold his daily briefing with the media. We were -- we are monitoring it. We'll bring it to you as developments warrant.

But, first, trip canceled. Former President George W. Bush, he will not be going to Switzerland this week. But there is a whole lot more to this story than meets the eye, and let me tell you about it. Mr. Bush was supposed to be the guest speaker, this coming Saturday, at a dinner the United Israel Appeal in Geneva, but human rights activists started threatening to file a criminal complaint against the former president, accusing Bush of approving torture of terrorism suspects.

Meantime, the United Israel Appeal canceled the speech, but they had said it was because word they received about the protests around his appearance, not the legal action. Quote, "calls to demonstrate were sliding into dangerous terrain..." End quote. That's what a lawyer for the United Israel Appeal told the Swiss Tribune, Geneva.

Now, a spokesman for former President Bush tells CNN that they were informed, on Friday, that the event had been called off. Quote, "We regret that the speech has been cancelled. President Bush was looking forward to speaking about freedom and offering reflections from his time in office." Unquote.

Well, this certainly is a talker, and today's topic for "Two at the Top." CNN's senior analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins me on the phone from Cincinnati. Jeff, good to talk with you. Could former President Bush get arrested on charges like these?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (via telephone): Well, he could not get arrested, in the sense of handcuffs on him, let's go get you booked and put you out, get you out on bail, but, I mean, there are a series of efforts to use what's called universal jurisdiction or extra territorial jurisdiction to prosecute leaders of countries who engage in violations of human rights. In the case of President Bush, the accusation is that his support of water boarding or torture would amount to an international crime. A number of human rights groups have made that claim. I doubt it would ever proceed to an actual prosecution, but a legal process could start if he appears in a country that honors those sorts of investigations.

SAVIDGE: So, if he really can't be arrested, then, what is the real concern? Why would he cancel the trip?

TOOBIN: The concern is he could be served with papers. Is that he could be -- there could be an embarrassing legal event in the sense that given the summons of some kind. So, I mean, that would be a serious embarrassment, as, I think, everyone acknowledges. I'm not sure it would happen, but you could certainly understand why President Bush, and, certainly, the sponsors of an event like this, would want to avoid it.

SAVIDGE: Only about ten seconds left. This has been threatened before against other members of the former Bush administration, correct?

TOOBIN: There was a serious issue involving Donald Rumsfeld in Germany during the Bush administration, and there have been actual prosecutions. General Pinochet, the head of Chile, was prosecuted in Spain for crimes against humanity. So, it's not a totally frivolous concern, but given the facts of the situation, I think, it's extremely, extremely unlikely anything would ever actually amount to a prosecution against President Bush, but there could be some embarrassment, that's true.

TOOBIN: Jeffrey Toobin, always we appreciate your insight. Thanks very much.

Well, now, let's take a look at the other big stories. Julian Assange appeared in a London courtroom, today, for the first day of his expected two-day extradition hearing. He's the WikiLeaks founder, and he's accused of sexual misconduct in Sweden. Investigators, there, want him returned for questioning. Assange denies he did anything wrong. His attorneys are arguing that he could, eventually, end up in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay if he's turned over to Swedish authorities. Assange has been out on bail since being arrested in London in December.

And the arraignment of two suspects in a deadly fraternity party in Ohio. That's been delayed until tomorrow. One person was killed, 11 others injured at a shooting at a Youngstown State University. Police say the suspects were mad that they were kicked out of a party. They, allegedly, killed 25-year-old Jamil Johnson when he tried to calm them down. Police say they, then, just started firing into the frat house. Ohio's governor will visit the campus later today.

Two of three American hikers arrested in Iran appeared in court for the start of their espionage trial. These are the pictures of Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal broadcast on Iranian state television. They're accused of trespassing into Iran and of spying. They both entered not guilty pleas. Sarah Shourd is the third American accused of spying on Iran. She was released on bail and left the country. And Iranian authorities say that she will be tried in absentia if she does not return. Bauer and fattal have been in custody for 17 months now. Their attorney says the next part of their trial should start sometime in the next coming weeks.

And we're getting a look today at Mark Kelly's first day back at work. Commander Kelly is resuming his training for the upcoming space shuttle "Endeavour" mission, launch scheduled April 19th. Kelly, of course, is married to Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. He announced, Friday, that he will go ahead with the mission, because, as he said, it's what Gabby would want him to do. Giffords in recovery at a Houston Rehabilitation Clinic from injuries she suffered as a result of the Tucson shooting, last month. Kelly says that he expects her to be in Florida for that launch.

Well, the talk of the day after Super Bowl is, usually, the commercials, and, maybe, the biggest one of all featured a pint sized Darth Vader, everybody remembers this, who used the force to start the family car. Well, maybe with a little help from dad and a remote control, but the real story, here, is the kid behind the mask. Six- year-old Max Page, he was diagnosed with congenital heart defect when he was just four months old. Then, he talked about it in a news conference with his family, and it's today's "Sound Effect."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAX PAGE, DIAGNOSED WITH CONGENITAL HEART DEFECT: My mom and dad and my brother have supported me lots. When I have open heart surgeries, I get lots of blood draws, so they help me through it lots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Doctors say that Max should have a full, and fairly normal life, and by the way, if you think he looks familiar, well, it may be because he is, actually, a cast member on the soap opera, "The Young and the Restless." Y and the R. His other job before he turned to the Empire.

Well, if you are born in this country, you are a U.S. citizen, right? Well, one state is, actually, taking up legislation that could change all of it. We'll tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: If you're born in this country, are you a U.S. citizen? It's a question that is coming up a lot in Arizona, these days, and in about three hours, the State Senate Judiciary Committee is going to be holding a hearing on this very matter. They are looking at two specific pieces of legislation. Arizona State Senate Bill 1309 says, for a child to be considered an Arizona citizen, at least one of their parents must be either a legal U.S. citizen or legal permanent U.S. resident.

And, then, there's State Senate Bill 1308, which seeks permission from Congress to create separate birth certificates for children who do not meet the definition of citizen. Yes, of course, this brings up a lot of controversy on both sides, and it could be headed for the supreme court. In fact, many believe that's what is wanted. That's why I want to tell you about what is Section 1 of the 14th Amendment.

Here it comes. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. It goes on to say, no state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities citizens of the United States nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor deny to any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law, nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Protests began last Thursday before the bills were even introduced. Activists are planning a 1,000 baby chain to descend on the capitol in just a couple hours. That should be something to see. We're going to continue to follow this and bring you a live report from phoenix at the top of the hour.

Which brings us to this question. What do you think about the proposed Arizona law to deny citizenship to kids born in the U.S. if their parents are illegal immigrants? We'd love to hear from you. Head to Ali's blog at CNN.com/ali, or post on his Facebook or Twitter pages. We'll use your comments throughout the show today.

What is Aowas -- AOL's, that is -- latest move to gain a foot hold in the online world it once dominated? Well, it will cost them $315 million, and I will tell you about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: How about this, "The Wall Street Journal" reports hackers have repeatedly made their way into the computer network that runs the Nasdaq stock market during the past year. Part of the system that executes trades was not breached, that's the good news, sources told the newspaper. However, other parts of Nasdaq's infrastructure were accessed. Investigators from the Secret Service and FBI are looking into the matter.

A big Internet announcement today. AOL has agreed to purchase "The Huffington Post" for $315 million. And according to the release, the new group will have a combined 117 million unique visitors a month in the U.S. and 270 million around the world. Christine Romans, anchor of "Your Bottom Line," joins me now with more on this story.

And, first, Christine, why did the transaction happen in the first place?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, HOST, "YOUR BOTTOM LINE": Well, the transaction happened so that AOL could really cement its relevance in an online world that it once dominated. I mean it invented, "you've got mail," and now it's trying to become increasingly relevant in a time when its own subscriber base has declined and declined. For Arianna Huffington, what she gets, as she said herself in an online post, she said she steps off a fast moving train and on to a supersonic jet. She gets huge control over the content of AOL and Huffington Post, what was once a left of center blog that started in 2005 with just $1 million in seed money, is now going to be a huge platform for her. Let me tell you just quickly here what you have here. You've got an AOL that's trying to remain relevant. It lost subscriber base. And you've got a Huffington Post, which has 26 million unique viewers every single month. So these two together, interesting, a very interesting combination.

Then you've got Huffington Post, Tech Crunch, engadget, patch.com. These are all parts of the new -- the names that AOL has bought over the past months and years as it's trying to cement itself as a content provider. There are some of those there.

Patch.com, by the way, is this really interesting -- 800 different local sites that sort of fill in the place, Martin, where local newspapers fell away. You can go and put your town in and you can get local news there. Arianna Huffington telling me earlier today that she hopes to really embolden the patch.com issue.

And I wanted to tell you just quickly, going to my last full screen, I want to tell you what exactly she said that she wants to do. She wants to expand patch.com, she wants to double down on video, she says. She wants to increase original reporting. More and more original reporting, she said. And she wants to put flesh and blood, as she put it, on the economic data.

So clearly they're sleepless there at "Huffington Post" this morning because they worked on this deal all night long. $315 million. And she will be the president. It will be the Huffington Post Media Group.

SAVIDGE: She's, of course, the co-founder. What is -- who's the real winner out of this whole deal?

ROMANS: Well, that's interesting. We'll have to see. We'll have to see if AOL -- I mean, at this point, they're both saying that they are winners. AOL is really trying to, you know, beef up its content. It also has Map Quest. It has Moviefone. A lot of different brands here. And for Arianna Huffington, this -- like I said, in 2005, she started a left of center political blog that grew into sort of a must read thing in Washington and on Wall Street for both liberal thinking, but also lifestyle and sports and a lot of other things. You know there -- a lot of guys on Wall Street I know they look at "The Huffington Post" or they look at Drudge (ph). Those are the -- sort of the two extremes for them.

SAVIDGE: Oh, yes.

ROMANS: And they look at both of them just to see what everyone's talking about. Setting the conversation in the morning. A thought leader kind of thing. So from just being a political blog a few years ago to now being purchased for $315 million by AOL is certainly, even in techland, that is still a very pretty fast trajectory.

SAVIDGE: Well, that is the first stop for many friends I know when they go on web in the morning.

Thanks very much, Christine Romans. ROMANS: Right.

SAVIDGE: Be sure to join us -- you know, Christine Romans, that is, for "Your Bottom Line." That's each Saturday morning at 9:30 Eastern. And "Your Money" with Ali Velshi Saturdays at 1:00 p.m. Eastern and Sundays at 3:00.

Breaking news just coming in to CNN. A Google executive held in Egypt has just been released. Google executive Wael Ghonim went missing on January 28th. This is the tweet that was just posted. "Huge relief." And you see that, "Wael Ghonim has been released. Our love to him and his family." Of course, he had been missing. There had been a great deal of concern. All of this taking place during the Cairo uprising. Cairo is seeing some calming today with a number of anti- government protesters in Tahrir Square shrinking, but those remaining aren't backing down on their demand that President Hosni Mubarak leave immediately.

Meanwhile, President Mubarak met with his newly appointed cabinet for the very first time. Fourteen days after those protests began.

Lawyers for Michael Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, are headed to court in a few hours to hash out some very key questions. Chief among them, whether or not to televise the trial which begins in March. Murray waived his right to be present at today's pre-trial hearing.

It's a gruesome act of brutality that has gone unpunished for nearly 40 years. Now a modern day discovery could finally solve a cold case murder. We'll have that coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Just a heads-up here. A short while ago we got the two- minute warning that Robert Gibbs is standing by to deliver the White House briefing. Of course, we'll bring that to you as soon as he steps to the podium.

In the meantime, police in Rochester, New York, think that they have solved a 38-year-old murder case using technology that wasn't even available when the crime was committed. Ann Mae Cray, a blind woman, 52, was raped and bludgeoned to death in her Rochester home in 1972. Willie James Kimble was a suspect in the original investigation but nothing was ever proven. It was a cold case for years until police learned that Kimble had been convicted of two sex crimes since Cray's slaying. Detective C.J. Dominic, the son of the original investigator in that case, picked up where his father left off, looking through the old evidence. Police found a blanket from the crime scene. They did DNA tests on a stain and it matched to Kimble, who was arrested in Florida. Kimble, by the way, is now 78. If he's convicted, he will likely spend the rest of his life in prison.

Well, more gay couples are bringing up children, and not just in urban areas, on the East and West Coast. Our David Mattingly has the story in Jacksonville, Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Which one is the loudest soccer mom? That's what I'd like to know.

MISTY GRAY, GAY PARENT: Latisha (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Me.

Good job, Mike (ph).

MATTINGLY (voice-over): At the soccer field, they are two moms cheering for the same child. But in church, Latisha Bines (ph) and her partner, Misty Gray of Jacksonville, Florida, are part of a new phrase on the old Bible belt. Same sex couples, raising children, turning to pro-gay churches for support and acceptance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, we're gay, we're lesbian, but our God still loves us no matter what.

MATTINGLY: A surprising UCLA study of the 2010 census reveals same-sex couples in the south are more likely to be raising children than similar couples even on the West Coast. San Antonio is number one. Number two, Jacksonville. It took one phone call to find out why.

MATTINGLY (on camera): Why is this happening in the south of all places?

GARY GATES, UCLA DEMOGRAPHER: Gay and lesbian people tend to come out later in life in those areas, which means they're actually more likely to have children early -- from a prior relationship earlier in their lives.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Demographer Gary Gates cites another big reason, southern pro-gay churches reaching out to minorities and creating safety nets for the entire family.

MATTINGLY (on camera): Of course, not all churches are happy to hear about this trend. This, in fact, is one of them here in the Jacksonville area. The leader of this church is calling on pastors all over the city to pray.

BISHOP VAUGHN MCLAUGHLIN, POTTER'S HOUSE CHRISTIAN FELLOWSHIP: I believe that they should be preaching a positive message that Jesus is right.

MATTINGLY: And that these couples, they should not have gay relationships?

MCLAUGHLIN: I believe that the couples in the church that have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that would bring a conviction that Jesus taught and the scriptures teach that marriage is between a man and a woman. Simple.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): But not so simple for people like Latisha Bines, raising her three biological children with her partner, Misty Gray. GRAY: Hetero, homo, it doesn't matter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.

GRAY: Either way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Definitely.

GRAY: It's a great support system.

MATTINGLY: And their pastor believes happy parents start with happy children.

MATTINGLY (on camera): The focus is the children.

PASTOR VALERIE WILLIAMS, ST. LUKE'S COMMUNITY CHURCH: Yes. Absolutely. The children being able to serve God with their families and not being judged.

MATTINGLY: It wasn't too long ago that gay and lesbian couples might have thought it was too risky to bring their children to church with them. This Jacksonville church was fire bombed three times back in the 1980s.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Now, it is a place for family worship and youth groups. Signs of the times in a changing Bible belt.

David Mattingly, CNN, Jacksonville, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: All right. Now we will take you directly to the White House. Robert Gibbs is, I believe, ready to speak out as part of his daily briefing to reporters. Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president said as he was walking back that Egypt (INAUDIBLE) and I think they're making progress. Can you elaborate a bit on his thinking. Where specifically does he think they're making progress?

ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, I think, Ben, what the president was referring to is that, as you heard him say on Friday, that we have a -- we have the beginnings of a process that is taking place. A process that we know has to include a series of steps that have to be taken and a series of things that have to be negotiated with a broad section of the opposition parties in order to move us towards a free and fair election.

I think that, you know, we will, meaning the world, and I think most importantly the Egyptian people, will evaluate where we are in terms of the steps that are being taken in order to see the words that are spoken about meaningful change, actually result in some concrete actions. I think that's what people are looking for, words are not enough. It's -- it is actions toward a meaningful change that the Egyptian people are most looking for. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This thing, as you know, has changed by the hour. So the president, as we stand today, is optimistic about how the process is headed?

GIBBS: Well, again, optimistic -- and I think it's important in a couple things, because I think what you just said is very important, that this thing does change very quickly hour by hour. Understand if you take half a step back what we've seen happen over the course of 10 to 14 days. And you've heard me describe it. You've seen some monumental changes in Egypt.

A leaders say he's not going to run for re-election. A leaders say that his son won't be running in his place for election. The appointment of a vice president and the tasking of that vice president to lead a process to result in a free and fair election. Many other points along the way. But I think that is -- that is important.

Again, the most important thing is that there has to be a process toward meaningful change. That we have to see, again, the government sit with a broad cross section of society that makes up -- when I say the opposition, people that aren't in government, to get us toward the free and fair elections that we know ultimately will be a result of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It wasn't entirely clear from the president's comments yesterday in which the Muslim Brotherhood, whether in that broad spectrum you're talking about, he is comfortable with that group being part of the conversation; in fact, whether he -- he sanctions them.

GIBBS: Well, the -- those that will be involved in the discussions about what happens next in Egypt, as we have said on -- on -- throughout many occasions, are not -- will not be determined by us.

GIBBS: I also think, if you look at what has happened, again, over the last 10 to 14 days, I think the notion that somehow all of what you've seen is the result of one political faction or one set of beliefs is not at all the case.

There are a whole host of elements throughout Egyptian society not represented in its current government, seeking the rights that we've enumerated in here that they have sought, that want to be part of this discussion.

And, quite frankly, we strongly support democracy in Egypt.

QUESTION: But I guess...

GIBBS: The whole -- let me say this.

But democracy is -- again, I said, probably more than a week ago, democracy is not one group hijacking a process so that they can take power from another group that they didn't think fairly represented their views and their rights. That's not democracy. Democracy has to be a broad section of people that are represented in what would be a free and fair election. QUESTION: Well, the reason I asked, in particular...

GIBBS: And I think it's important -- one more interruption -- and I think it's -- it is very important to restate, as we've said many times, we will be a partner to a government that does exactly what I describe, and we would expect that that partner would uphold particularly the treaties and the obligations that the -- the government of Egypt, and ultimately the people of Egypt, have entered into.

QUESTION: OK...

Did I just...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: I'm asking, in particular, about the Muslim Brotherhood, because, in his answer yesterday the president acknowledged -- I don't have the exact wording, but there's an anti- American strain to some of their thinking.

GIBBS: Sure.

QUESTION: So the American people might look at that and say, "Well, where does this president stand, if that group is going to be involved?"

GIBBS: Look, again, who is involved in the larger process is up to the Egyptians to determine, understanding, again, that the only -- I think it would be horribly inaccurate to simply say that there are two factions in Egypt; one is the Muslim Brotherhood and the other is the government of Egypt.

That's clearly not the case, and clearly wasn't the case in what we -- what we've seen transpire on the streets.

But obviously, as the president said, the anti-American rhetoric and the anti- -- the rhetoric that goes very counter to the very regional peace and stability that I spoke of is, of course, not something that is supported by the United States.

QUESTION: I wanted to squeeze in a quick question here about the chamber.

In his speech, the president said to the chamber leaders, "Ask yourselves what you can do to hire American workers, to support the American economy, to invest in this nation."

I guess I'm wondering, I understand the broad point about shared responsibility, but why does he think he would need to say to them, "Ask yourselves what you can do to hire workers"? Doesn't he think they're already doing that?

GIBBS: Well, look, we are -- look, I think it is clear we are coming out of a period that we have not seen in our country's history in probably the last 80 or 90 years: the economic collapse that we saw, the jobs that were lost as a result of it. Obviously, what the president wants to see and wants to have a continued discussion on are ways that we can foster ideas for innovation, for building, for education that continue to give business confidence in the strengthening of our economy.

That -- that's how they're going to make decisions. And we want -- we want to do what we can to help them make decisions to hire folks here in this country because they feel like the economy is getting stronger and coming back.

Yes, sir?

(END COVERAGE)

SAVIDGE: White House spokesman Robert Gibbs there, holding his daily briefing. And you cans see the early part of that briefing dominated by events going on in Egypt. He said President Obama was optimistic about where things are headed but he also went on to stress that there has to be a process toward meaningful change.

Again, there continues to be a lot of careful language that is used by the White House in dealing with their relationship with the outgoing, what is anticipated of being an out-going Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and those who have been protesting in the streets for 14 days.

We'll take a break. Be back with more news after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Happening now in Egypt, the country's new cabinet held its first meeting today. Protesters, meanwhile, are maintaining a human chain in Cairo's Tahrir Square. Many insisting they're not going to budge until President Hosni Mubarak steps down. The city is showing signs of returning to normal with more shops and banks opening today.

In Arizona, the State Senate Judiciary Committee is considering legislation aimed at denying U.S. citizenship or its citizenship to U.S. born babies of illegal immigrants. That legislation would challenge the 14th Amendment, which guarantees citizenship to anyone born or naturalized in the U.S.

And in London, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange is facing possible extradition to Sweden, where prosecutors want to question him about sexual misconduct allegations. At the two-day hearing his lawyers are arguing that Sweden could turn him over to the U.S. to face espionage charges over his web site's disclosure of secret military and diplomatic documents.

President Obama is trying to repair relations between his administration and the business community. In a speech to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce a little over an hour ago, he called for corporations to keep jobs in America and hire American workers. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATESAVIDGE: I understand you are under incredible pressure to cut costs and keep your margins up. I understand the significance of your obligations to your shareholders and the pressures that are created by quarterly reports. I get it. But as we work with you to make America a better place to do business, I'm hoping that all of you are thinking what you can do for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Is this speech a step in the right direction toward making nice with big business?

Poppy Harlow joins us with a little more insight.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Hi there, Martin. You know, since the midterm election in November, we've seen President Obama working hard at improving his relationship with the business community.

He certainly shook up his economic team. He brought in former banker Bill Daley. He also brought in Jeff Immelt, the CEO of G.E. to head his team on jobs and competitiveness. So he's bringing big business leaders into his inner circle. And his speech today at the Chamber of Commerce is just his latest effort to reach out to businesses.

In order to really address the unemployment issue in this country, we need to see businesses across the board hiring in a very, very major way. We need them to spend the $2 trillion of cash on hand that these companies have and we need them to spend it on hiring. You heard the president make that direct appeal in his speech today at the Chamber.

And just about a week ago, I had to chance to speak with the head of the Chamber of Commerce, Tom Donohue. He was at the World Economic Forum in Davos. And here's his take. Here's what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM DONOHUE, PRESIDENT, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: We have got to be become more competitive by reducing regulation that we don't need and by becoming the world trader again. We have to get off the dime and get back in the trading business.

HARLOW: What are the biggest barriers? I assume you'll say regulation. What form of regulation right now?

DONOHUE: The health care bill that just passed and the Capital Markets bill that passed. It blows your mind away.

HARLOW: It's a Wall Street reform and health care reform.

DONOHUE: The health care bill creates 158 new agencies, commissions, committees. That's not going to help. And the Capital Markets bill creates 320 mandatory regulations and 220 suggested ones.

I think the president has begun to turn on the issues that concern us. We have never had a personal argument with the president. It has always been about some of his policies. We've supported him on stimulus and banking and GM and all of that. But we have raised questions about the questions of capital markets and health care and labor issues, and we will, again, if we have to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And no question, there are areas of common ground between the Chamber and the president. You heard the president refer to this in his speech, talking about cutting corporate taxes. He also said that in the State of the Union. He spoke in the speech today about expanding free trade and also spending more on infrastructure.

But when it comes to job creation, what the Chamber of Commerce says is, look, it all comes down to reducing regulation. Tom Donohue, the head of the Chamber of Commerce telling me you have to get rid of the uncertainty that regulation creates, whether it's health care reform, taxes or Wall Street reform. And he says once companies have more clarity, they will start hiring again.

But Martin, we are seeing an increased dialogue at least between the administration and Chamber of Commerce. You can see a lot more from the head of the Chamber of Commerce. We've got the interview right here on CNN Money -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Thanks, Poppy.

As we mentioned a couple minutes ago, a few signs of things returning to normal today in Cairo. But, is there any sign of the protests ending any time soon? Get out a pair of comfortable shoes. We're Globe Trekking next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: The pro-democracy revolt in Egypt entered its third week today with no clear sign of it ending any time soon. But there are increasing signs the city at least is returning to normalcy, such as ATMs dispensing much needed cash and the opening of shops and banks. Many among the tens of thousands of demonstrators still jammed into Cairo's Tahrir Square repeat their vow that they will not leave until President Mubarak steps down. They see themselves on a mission, where turning back is simply not an option.

CNN's Ivan Watson spoke with some of them about their bravery and defiance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Morning for the men of the barricades in Tahrir Square. Cold, battle- scarred and filthy, they fought and bled to protect this symbol of Egyptian defiance.

(on camera): It was raining. It was cold here last night.

ABDUL HAMID DAOUD, PROTESTER: Yes, yes, yes. And all the people, they stand tired, and we will continue forever until that system is removed.

WATSON (voice-over): Abdul Hamid Daoud suffered head wounds during last Wednesday's furious battle between opposition demonstrators and President Hosni Mubarak's supporters.

(on camera): How did you feel fighting other Egyptians?

DAOUD: Fighting other Egyptians?

WATSON: Yes.

DAOUD: They are not Egyptians. They are criminals.

WATSON (voice-over): Daoud says he's fighting for his country's freedom.

DAOUD: We want to make democracy systems with organizations, not (INAUDIBLE) country, not a fascistic system. We want to make it a democracy.

WATSON: Daoud and thousands of his colleagues established improvised lines of security --

DAOUD: Anybody have to go inside, they have to make a check.

WATSON: -- and an alarm system of clangs and whistles that sounds at the first hint of a threat. The result, an enclave in the heart of the Egyptian capital that's largely out of state control.

Here, Egyptians can sing, dance, give political speeches, and even make street art.

DAOUD: And this is art, our art.

WATSON: Anti-Mubarak messages made from the stones protesters once hurled at the president's men.

DAOUD: My friend is sleeping, Abdul.

WATSON: Daoud is a father of two, an engineer who works for an American IT company, and a devout Muslim who admires the Muslim Brotherhood party.

DAOUD: The Muslim Brothers is one of the parts of -- and we also have Christians.

WATSON: On Sunday, Egyptian Christians stood shoulder to shoulder with Muslims, holding a cross and the Koran, demanding Mubarak's resignation.

(on camera): What do you call this? Do you have a name for this? DAOUD: Yes.

WATSON: What?

DAOUD: Revolution.

WATSON: It's a revolution?

DAOUD: Yes.

WATSON (voice-over): But a day earlier, these Egyptian revolutionaries shifted their tactics to face a new, far more dangerous threat.

WATSON (on camera): You have people sitting outside your barricades.

DAOUD: Yes.

WATSON: Why?

DAOUD: To face the tanks.

WATSON: And why do you have to face the tanks?

DAOUD: To stop them.

WATSON (voice-over): The men of the barricades fear Egyptian soldiers may use force to kill their revolution. To prevent that, they say they're ready to pay the ultimate price.

Ivan Watson, CNN, Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: Great story.

What if I told you that we have the power to change the human species into whatever we want it to be? No, I'm not daydreaming here. After the break, I'll talk to a man who says he can change the human race as we know it.

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SAVIDGE: Well, in today's "Big I," we're going to take you into the future. We're going to look ahead at what humans are going to be like in another few years. This is really fascinating stuff. But in order for us to look into the future, we have to understand a bit about the past.

There have been - get this -- at least 25 protohuman species so far, and what you're looking at here is the skull of the Heidelberg Man, who is said to be a direct ancestor of modern man. Over millions of years, scientists say that we've evolved to homo erectus and Neanderthal men to what are categorized as homosapiens. So, what's the next step in the evolution of man? Well, some say it could be homoevolutis - I hope I said that right -- a type of man that is the master of his own evolutionary fate. Joining me now is Juan Enriquez. He is the co-author of the book "Homo Evolutis," which is a short tour of our new species.

Thanks very much for joining us. And first of all, let me ask you, how are we able to sort of control our own changes as a species? What's that about?

JUAN ENRIQUEZ, CO-AUTHOR, "HOMO EVOLUTIS": So, Martin, it's not one technology that's doing this, it's not one change. What's happening today is we have so many ways of altering our foods, our brains, making other organs, playing with robotics, implanting eyes, changing our brains because of the amount of data that's coming into our brains. So, what's happening many, many, many labs in many countries are driving changes that fundamentally give us direct and deliberate control over the evolution of our own species of bacteria, of foods, of animals.

SAVIDGE: And this is the first time, of course this has happened in human evolution. Prior to this, it's always been sort of random events by the billions that made us who we are. Now you're saying we have the power to determine all of that.

ENRIQUEZ: That's exactly right. And we do that when we use an antibacterial soap and we change the microbial environment. We do that when we engineer penicillin. We do that when we regrow bladders to take care of bladder cancer. We do that when we put as much information into our brains in one day as someone might have gotten in an entire lifetime 200 years ago. Our brains begin to change, they begin to rewire.

SAVIDGE: So this homo evolutis, is this the next and last step in what has been this long, huge process?

ENRIQUEZ: No, absolutely not. There's no reason to think that evolution is stopping or slowing. On the contrary, what we're doing right now is I think we're in a period where a lot of species are going extinct. And at the same time, we're about to have an absolute explosion of new species.

Take the food we eat. About 70 percent of the grains that we consume today are genetically engineered. An all-natural tomato is small, it's about the size of your thumbnail, it's green and slightly poisonous. We've engineered it into these wonderful heirloom tomatoes. We've engineered dogs from wolves. We've engineered all kinds of things, and now we're beginning to engineer ourselves on a consistent basis. And we're the first species ever that has taken control of our own evolution.

SAVIDGE: Well, we've met the future, and it is us. Juan Enriquez, thank you very much. It's a fascinating topic. We appreciate you joining us. Sorry we couldn't have more time to talk today. Thank you. Well, one longtime congresswoman is calling it quits. But she's not leaving Washington. The congressional shuffle is ahead. It will be in our CNN Political Update.

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SAVIDGE: President Obama's options for Egypt tops our CNN Political Update. Host of Wolf Blitzer joins me now in Washington. Good to see you, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Marty. Always good to see you as well.

You had Robert Gibbs, the start of his White House briefing today. He's still continuing to dance around all of the sensitive questions about whether or not the United States, the Obama administration, wants president Mubarak to step down now, to wait a few months, to wait until the next scheduled elections in September. It's a real, real sensitive issue right now, and obviously, they're dancing around the whole question of the vice president, Omar Suleiman. What would be his responsibility over these next several months?

They're hoping the Egyptians themselves, that Omar Suleiman can come up with some sort of framework to see the end of the Mubarak administration, the Mubarak era go down in a rely toughly organized, orderly way. But a lot of the protestors on the streets of Cairo and elsewhere want Mubarak to leave, they want him to leave right away, they don't want to have to wait several months. So, this is a real sensitive issue.

By the way, we're going to get into this at length in "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 5 p.m. Eastern. The State Department spokesman, P.J. Crowley will be among our guests. Let me get to a couple of other items crossing CNN politics on our political ticker right now.

Richard Lugar, the longtime senator from Indiana, is up for reelection in 2012, next year. He's 78 years old but has already made it clear he's going to seek reelection. Now some Tea Party activists, some conservatives, they're really anxious to find a conservative to challenge him for the Republican nomination. They think they've found potentially a good one. Richard Murdoch, the state treasurer seems to be interested in challenging Richard Lugar.

The conservatives, or the Tea Party activists, they don't like Lugar for three main reasons. He's voted in favor of confirming some of the Supreme Court nominees of President Obama. Also, he supported the TARP funding. He also supported ratifying the START Treaty with Russia.

So there's a lot always going on in the world of politics, in Egypt right now. We're staying on top of all of it.

Back to you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: Wolf Blitzer, thanks very much. Look forward to it.