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Defining a Citizen; 79.9 Percent Interest Credit Card; Drugs Smuggled on Flights; The President's Religion
Aired February 07, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it is 2:00 p.m. Eastern, 11:00 a.m. on the West Coast.
And if you are born in this country, are you a U.S. citizen? It's a question that's coming up a lot in Arizona these days.
And in just a couple of hours, the state Senate Judiciary Committee is going to be holding a hearing on this very matter. They're looking at two specific pieces of legislation. Here they are.
Arizona State Senate Bill 1309 says for a child to be considered an Arizona citizen, at least one of their parents must be either a legal U.S. citizen or legal permanent U.S. resident. Then you've got state Senate Bill 1308. It seeks permission from Congress to create separate birth certificates for children who do not meet the definition of citizen.
Of course, this is bringing controversy on both sides, and it could be headed for the Supreme Court. That's why I want to tell you what Section 1 of the 14th Amendment says. Here it is.
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."
Now, it goes on to say, "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of the citizens of the United States. Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law, nor deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Well, again, a very divisive issue, and it's the topic of today's "Two at the Top."
Casey Wian joins me from outside the Arizona State Senate chamber.
Casey, you know, it's just the latest bill in a series of immigration bill that the legislature intends to pick up, right?
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And Martin, you mentioned that this could end up at the Supreme Court. Well, the sponsors of this bill say that's exactly what they want to happen.
They admit that this legislation, even if it gets through both chambers of the Arizona legislature, and is eventually signed into law by Governor Jan Brewer, will have absolutely no immediate practical effect. The whole purpose of this is to get the issue of birth right citizenship before the United States Supreme Court.
Supporters of this legislation, the effort to deny citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants, say the Supreme Court has never ruled on this issue. Opponents say, absolutely, the Supreme Court has.
There are four words that you mention, "under the jurisdiction thereof," that is the subject of so much debate here. Constitutional law experts we have spoken with say that was originally intended to deny citizenship to visiting diplomats from other countries if they had children while they were here. They were not granted automatic citizenship under the Constitution, and that there was also an issue with American-Indians who were not considered citizens when this amendment to the Constitution was actually crafted. But they say there was never any intent to deny citizenship to anyone who is born here, who happens to have parents who are not American.
Now, opponents say that this is just another black eye for the state of Arizona, which has been trying, as you mentioned, basically since 2004, to pass several different measures designed to restrict, crack down on illegal immigration, because as many people here say, the federal government has absolutely failed to solve that problem.
Now, what's going to happen today is there's going to be debate in committee. We're also expecting a protest out here. Opponents of the bill say they expect to bring 1,000 babies here to protest this measure. So there's going to be some lively debate in this committee.
There are six Republicans on the committee, two Democrats. Democrats believe they may be able to get two Republicans on their side to stop this bill, but we're going to have to wait to see if that actually happens. We're expecting lively debate and a controversial issue that's expected to continue even if the bill goes down to defeat in committee today, because supporters say they'll bring it up again in another form -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: Yes, we are not hearing the last of this. Casey Wian, thanks very much for joining us from Arizona.
(NEWSBREAK)
SAVIDGE: Paying interest is part of having a credit card, but one woman has a rate that's a whopping 79.9 percent. And she's not alone. Would you believe there are lots of people who are more than willing to pay it?
We'll have the details coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: A 58-year-old woman from Texas has a credit card with a 79.9 percent rate. Yes, I said that correctly. She is paying nearly 80 percent interest on everything she charges. Why? Well, here's her story.
Toni Rist (ph) says that she had to file for bankruptcy after her medical expenses became simply too much to handle. She says that her credit went to "hell in a hand basket," so she was looking for credit card for people with credit issues. She got a card with a $300 limit and an interest rate of 29.9 percent.
Six months later, the interest rate soared to 79.9 percent. The credit card is with First PREMIER Bank, who says this extremely high interest credit card is a must for people who have credit problems and have a history of defaulting on loans. In fact, the bank's CEO says the card is so popular, nearly 700,000 people have signed up for it, and half of them carry balances.
The question: Is this legal?
Joining me now, Ryan Mack. He is the author of "Living in the Village" and president of Optimum Capital Management.
And so here's the question -- is it really legal to have that high of annual percentage?
RYAN MACK, PRESIDENT, OPTIMUM CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: The problem is it is legal. I mean, the Card Act of 2009 said that they did have a 25 percent interest rate cap. However, that only implied on previous customers. And that's retroactive. That doesn't apply for brand new customers.
So, those customers coming in, the particular woman, she not only had various interest rates, but they are allowed to tack on various fees, $45 just to sign up for the card, $6 a month servicing fee, $45 a year annual renewal fee. So these types of fees -- these are the types of things that individuals should expect because of the Card Act.
Now these banks are trying to figure out more ways in order to dip into individual's pockets, and we need to be very cautious of what we do.
SAVIDGE: I presume she knew all of this. I mean, this was clearly stated. Show knew the rate would jump up if she didn't make the payments on time and all of that. Right?
MACK: Well, I mean, and this is the thing, you know? I'm an advocate against a lot of these financial predators, and I get very upset. But sometimes getting mad at these individuals is almost like getting mad at sharks for being attracted to bloody waters.
I mean, this is what they do. They're trying to make money. They're out there. It's a capitalistic system, and they're trying to figure out ways in order to manipulate the system.
So what we have to do is really make sure that we're on guard. We're the ones checking our annual credit reports and building our FICO scores, calling and making sure we're negotiating various credit rates, trying to do the research to see what other alternatives -- I mean, she could have easily gone down to bank rate.com and got a secured card with no fees and put up $300 collateral, and got a card with lower interest rates. Check out a local credit union.
These types of things individuals need to see. The credit union might have a credit builder program that they might be able to sign up for to reestablish credit, as well as get the same type of card and access to credit. So we have to be a lot more vigilant in doing the research, because they're out there and they're trying to get our money.
SAVIDGE: Well, you heard the president of the company say he has got 700,000 people who have credit cards like this. Why are these cards so popular?
MACK: Again, they're so popular because we just do not take the time to do adequate research to figure out what exactly else is out there. I mean, this is it what it's all about.
These individuals understand that, one, many individuals don't take the time to try to reestablish credit history. And two, they don't take the time to do research.
What they do is they sell and say, look -- they talk to the lady, and many of the customers like this -- there's 700,000 customers like them -- and say, this is the best product for you, you're not going to be able to get this any other place on the market. Well, financial experts and an individual who does two seconds of research on Google will find out a whole differently. So we have to be a lot more vigilant to make sure that we can put these folks out of business by just doing research and doing those necessary things to make sure we can establish our credit history in the most responsible way.
SAVIDGE: And just repeat that aspect. You were saying that the alternative is that a person can go to the bank and get a card and not pay these fees. What is it again?
MACK: Well, I mean, right now you go to bankrate.com, secured credit cards. If she puts $300 up, and that bank holds it as collateral, that's a secured card. The interest rates are going to be lower.
Yes, they're going to hold your dollars as collateral, but you will be able to use that card just like any other credit card they have access to. I mean, this is almost like the best of both worlds.
They have such things as the prepaid debit cards that are a whole lot more popular right now, again, because banks are just trying to figure out ways to charge additional fees. And now this is almost like the worst of both worlds, where the cash advances, payday loans, other financial predators have combined with these prepaid-type card type fees on them. It's not a prepaid debit card, but the fees are very similar within this type of credit card.
So this is the way that the banks are trying to get into our pockets. But again, secured credit cards, credit unions in their own local area, try to make sure -- and then reestablish your own credit. Make sure you're paying your bills on time. Thirty-five percent is regularly paying your bills on time, paying down your debt, doing the things that are necessary to make sure you're rebuilding your credit in a very responsible manner. And we won't have to use these types of products, these financial predatory products, and give them our additional dollars that we -- these hard-earned dollars that America really needs right now.
SAVIDGE: Right. Money is hard to come by.
Ryan Mack, author of "Living in the Village."
Thanks very much for the good advice.
MACK: Absolutely.
SAVIDGE: And in other news, earlier we told you about proposed legislation that would deny citizenship to children born in the United States if parents are illegal immigrants. Well, we've been asking you to send us your thoughts. Now let's take a look at what you're saying on the issue.
Phil posted to Facebook, "Just sad that the states had to do something the government won't. It makes you wonder just whose side they are on."
Sharon says, "Hey, if you were born on American soil, then you are an American, no ifs, ands or buts about it."
And Loretta says, "I think the 14th Amendment needs to be repealed and everyone needs to take a citizenship test."
And Elizabeth says, "I disagree. The children were born here. They are U.S. citizens. They have no other way of life. To deport them to a country they have never lived in is inhumane."
Those are your thoughts so far.
Meanwhile, commercial flights offer new routes for smugglers. See how special agents are fighting back 50,000 feet in the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Special agents with Homeland Security are cleaning house, or maybe I should say the skies. Smugglers are using commercial flights to transport drugs, along with other forms of contraband, into the U.S. Agents work around the clock, conducting intense cargo inspections, and meticulously are screening airline employees who are often accomplices.
Deborah Feyerick pulls back the layers to see just how the cartels use the system to smuggle in their drugs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's in crew seats, food carts, control panels, toilets, drug traffickers using commercial planes to smuggle hundreds of millions of dollars of narcotics into the United States from places like South America and the Caribbean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all the flight controls, flight computers. We've discovered narcotics underneath the floor in here.
FEYERICK: These special agents are with Homeland Security Investigations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this covering is easily removed.
FEYERICK: They work intelligence, intercepting drugs like cocaine and other contraband.
(on camera): If they can bring in drugs or they can bring in guns, they could hide potentially bomb components anywhere in here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That's the most troubling thing to me.
FEYERICK: What makes an internal conspiracy so complicated is that the people involved work for the airlines.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily baggage handlers. We've also arrested mechanics, flight attendants, security guards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the first places we go to is generally the cockpit.
FEYERICK: That's a pretty gutsy thing, to be putting narcotics in the cockpit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. I mean, you're sitting right next to the first officer and the captain. The organizations will actually construct bricks to fit in these locations.
FEYERICK: You could be a passenger sitting on drugs and you would never know it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At New York street prices, you could be sitting on $100,000 worth of product.
FEYERICK (voice-over): And timing is everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have an hour and a half to get the passengers off the plane, to get the bags off the plane, to get all of the narcotics, and to get that plane prepared for its outbound trip.
FEYERICK: Some 200 corrupt airline workers have been arrested since 2003.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With our investigations, the goal is to stop it.
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: Twenty-one minutes past the hour. Time to check developments in our top stories.
Cairo is seeing some calming today with the number of anti- government protestors in Tahrir Square shrinking. But those remaining aren't backing down on their demand that President Hosni Mubarak leave immediately.
Meanwhile, President Mubarak met with his newly-appointed cabinet for the very first time -- 14 days, that is -- after the protests began.
Lawyers for Michael Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, are headed to court shortly to hash out some key questions. Chief among them, whether or not to televise the trial which begins in March. Murray waived his right to be present at today's pretrial hearing.
If you don't want an overweight child, listen to this. A new study out today shows that formula-fed infants given solid food before 4 months old are six times more likely to be obese by the age of 3. Today's study backs guidelines set by the American Academy of Pediatrics, which recommends solid food after the 4-month mark.
Finally, he's made up his decision to fly into space. We'll see how Commander Mark Kelly's training is going as his wife recovers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
SAVIDGE: Now, this is it the point where I turn to you and say, "We're going 'Off the Radar.'"
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: "Off the Radar."
Mark Kelly -- you know the name?
SAVIDGE: Yes, exactly, Commander Kelly.
MYERS: Fabulous man.
SAVIDGE: You know what? He is. And this is -- you know, as a husband, you have to think about this decision.
Gabby Giffords, of course, his wife.
MYERS: Of course.
SAVIDGE: And the terrible tragedy in Tucson. He is going on a space shuttle mission, and --
MYERS: He is going to be the commander.
SAVIDGE: -- he's going to be the commander of the mission.
MYERS: Yes.
SAVIDGE: A very difficult choice.
MYERS: Sure.
SAVIDGE: He's made it and says, "This is what Gabby wants." And I'm sure he's right.
MYERS: And that was his whole mindset, is that, if I don't do this, two years from now she's going to be so upset with me that I didn't do this, STS-134. April 19th is the projected launch date. That's my parents' 59th anniversary.
SAVIDGE: Congratulations.
MYERS: I can't imagine being with somebody that long, but anyway -- so that's going to be a great day for him. He's going to launch this thing, take it off, 1:34, on the way to the space shuttle. Now, there may be a couple more flights with the space shuttle thing, but probably not.
SAVIDGE: No. The program is winding down, too.
MYERS: I know, but I was talking to some people on the inside and they said, well, we'll have to see. We've sold a few parts. We'll see what we have to do. They have to get back and forth, and they don't want to use the Russian rockets as much as they have to.
SAVIDGE: Right. It is a bit of a complication.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: It will be interesting to see.
MYERS: Yes.
SAVIDGE: Everybody will be watching.
MYERS: Nice man.
SAVIDGE: Thanks very much.
MYERS: Sure.
SAVIDGE: An online experiment has Facebook fighting mad. Now they're fighting back. That will be next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: If you are just joining us, here is a look at what you might have missed.
Julian Assange appeared in a London court today for the first day of his expected two-day extradition hearing. The Wikileaks founder is accused of sexual misconduct in Sweden. Investigators there want him to return for questioning. Assange denies he's done anything wrong. But his attorneys are arguing he could end up in U.S. custody at Guantanamo Bay if he's turned over to Swedish authorities.
Two of the three American hikers arrested in Iran appeared in court for the start of their espionage trial. These are the pictures of Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal, broadcast on Iranian state television. They are accused of trespassing into Iran and of spying. They both entered not guilty pleas. Sarah Shourd is the third American accused of spying in Iran. She was released on bail. She left the country, and Iranian authorities say she will be tried in absentia if she doesn't return.
Bauer and Fattal have been in custody now for 17 months. Their attorneys say the next part of their trial should start sometime in the next few weeks.
Lawyers for Michael Jackson's physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, are headed to court today to hash out some key questions. Chief among them, whether or not to televise - my voice cracked -- televise the trial, which begins in March. Murray waived his right to be present at today's pretrail hearing.
Facebook threatening to take aggressive legal action against a new dating Web site that took profile pictures of 250,000 Facebook members and then posted them on their Web site. Using facial recognition technology, the site grouped people into categories like "easygoing" or "smug." The creators of LovelyFaces.com say it's really not a dating site but an experiment to show how easy it is to steal people's identities from Facebook. If anybody is upset about being part of the experiment, they say they'll remove your photograph, but you have to ask.
In Egypt, Cairo is seeing some calming today with the number of anti-government protesters in Tahrir Square shrinking. For those remaining are not backing down on their demands that president Hosni Mubarak leave immediately. Meanwhile, president Mubarak met with his newly appointed cabinet for the very first time. That's 14 days after the protests began.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: As we mentioned a moment ago, thousands of pro- democracy demonstrators are jammed into Cairo's Tahrir Square, just as they have been for the past two weeks. Their vow is the same but louder and clearer than ever before. They'll remain in the square for as long as it takes to force president Mubarak to step down.
Joining me now, CNN International anchor and correspondent Michael Holmes. He and I have spent a lot of time in a lot of very bad places.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I was going to say, was it Baghdad?
(LAUGHTER)
SAVIDGE: A lot of - a lot of nasty places.
HOLMES: Good to be with you and not in a bad place.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Marty. A legend.
Yes. We'll kick off with Egypt today. Probably the main thing is that the protestors are still there, but the other interesting thing is signs of normality are starting to return to the city. The stalemate continues between the pro-democracy and the pro-Mubarak, if we'd like to say.
The new cabinet also in place. Don't forget that. Obama official distancing themselves meanwhile from the remarks made by the envoy, Frank Wisner, this weekend, who said Mubarak should stay in place until the September elections. He's not the only one to say that. A lot of people think -- people want Mubarak to go now, but when you look at the stability angle, it's probably not a silly thing for him to stay there.
SAVIDGE: It was kind of weird the way he said it. Because he goes over there, supposedly with the mission to get Mubarak to leave. Then he comes back and says, you know what? He ought to stay around for a little while.
HOLMES: Yes, I think it was probably what his mission was and what he really thought.
SAVIDGE: And the White House was quick to say, you know what? He's a private citizen, so he's not speaking for us.
HOLMES: That's right. That's right. They said that U.S. policy on Egypt is going to be bumpy. That sort of thing.
So, the ATMs are opening up, schools opening up. Things are sttarting to get a little bit of normality.
SAVIDGE: Then there was questions about Turkey being a possible model here as the way that maybe Egypt could go as it progresses down this road to greater democracy.
HOLMES: Yes, and it's an interesting idea, too. I think you kind of go comparing apples and oranges. But Turkey, as we know, straddles Europe and Asia. The Bosphorous (ph) runs through the middle, and that's going to be the border between the two.
It is perhaps a model of sorts of what Muslim democracy can look like. It is a rising diplomatic force in its own right. Of course, it's had its trouble with religious extremists, but it's hanging in there. There are some parallels to be made. Perhaps Turkey's best role might be as a middleman of sorts between Western aspirations, shall we say, or preferences, and what's happening on the ground in the Arab world.
Another similarity, the military there is secular and powerful, perhaps not as powerful as it used to be. Turkey has been very successful in integrating Islam into the fabric of the politics but not in an overbearing sense.
SAVIDGE: There's still a few warts in the system but you're right. They've done a very good job. And the other thing is they're an economic dynamo.
HOLMES: Absolutely. They have They've really pushed it along. And that's probably why the prime minister there has been able to make people happier, because the economy is becoming good while he's integrated some Islam, enough to keep everybody happy. Fine line.
SAVIDGE: Yes. That's why people are upset in Egypt because they don't see the economic opportunity.
All right. Quickly, about Sudan. We had the official results made today but also Beshear came out and says he's going to support the process.
HOLMES: Exactly. Well, 99 percent of people say they want it. It's hard to argue, but this is Sudan. His acceptance is a positive thing. Let's put in a little context here.
This is coming six years after the north and south ended a bloody civil war, couple million people died. Now next step, how do you set up a country? The south is very impoverished, very poor. But it's got the oil. The oil has got to run through the north. So, they have to talk about a lot of things. Currency, citizenship. And it's a delicately poised country, too.
So, while it looks like the south will become the world's newest nation in, I think July, let's wait and see what happens.
SAVIDGE: Well, another reason Beshear may go along is the fact, he's watching Egypt like many others and saying, that could be me.
HOLMES: Let's not forget he's wanted for potential war crimes as well.
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Exactly. They want him as well. Good to see you, man!
SAVIDGE: Very good to see you, too. Hope to see you again soon.
HOLMES: We had some times in Baghdad, didn't we?
SAVIDGE: We did indeed. We'll talk about those later!
All right. From food to gas to just about everything else, it's costing more these days. Can we catch a break? Up next, I'll tell you the ten things that are actually getting cheaper this year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Gas prices are rising. Food prices are rising. Doesn't anything ever get cheaper? Well, as a matter of fact, technology does, which brings us to today's "Breakdown." Here from deal dot - DealNews, rather, dot com -- as we look at the ten things that are actually getting cheaper this year. Let's start with cameras. Specifically a full-size digital single-lens reflex camera. Was $319 last year. This year, you could probably find it for $299. DealNews.com says that with point-and-shoot cameras getting more popular, larger, slightly clunky -- clunkier cameras are getting cheaper.
Next? Let's talk about the Kindle. With the tablet craze stealing the spotlight from e-books, Kindle prices are falling. Was $130, they are now $99.
And it may be finally time to get that high-definition television set or probably get the second one because they're going from $69 last year to $599 this year.
How about a Blu-Ray player to go with the new TV? Was $50 last year. But you should be able to pick one up for $39 this year.
And with all the competition from other game systems, the basic Wii is increasingly affordable, down from $150 to $99. And as computer memory cards get more full or more powerful, the 16-gigabyte memory card is on the verge of becoming obsolete. That is dropping the price from $17 to $12 this year.
More people are getting those global positioning systems built into their cars. You may already have it on your phone. If you still want a portable GPS, the price is going from $45 to $40.
Laptops, they used to be hot. But now people are more likely to buy tablets. The price of this laptop is falling from $218 last year to $199 this year.
Need to back up your computer, how about this? More powerful USB drivers are available, so are prices of older ones. They are falling. This external two terabye USB drive, $90 last year. Should hit $50 later this year.
And finally, this iPhone would have set you back about 97 bucks last year. But a new iPhone is coming out soon, so this model will only cost you $49 this year.
So, see? some prices are really falling. It will even make you happy or really angry that you paid a higher price. But there you go.
Over 100 million people watched the Super Bowl last night. 15 percent just for the commercials, according to one marketing study. So for today's "You Choose" segment, we want to know what your favorite Super Bowl ad was.
Your first option is Bridgestone karma, featuring a beaver whose life is saved by Bridgestone Tires. I remember that one.
And your second option is - and we've shown it - Volkswagen: The Force. Starring a pint-sized Darth Vader showing his might. And then finally, the Doritos, the best part. Yes. I remember that one, too, with the finger-licking Doritos obsessed coworker. Once again, head to our blog, CNN.com/ali to vote and debate. And we'll bring you the results in about ten minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: You know, I don't know if you saw any of last week's national prayer breakfast, but it got us thinking about religion and the presidency. And we wondered if a non-Christian -- a non-Christian would ever get elected to the White House.
Well, first, let's take a look at religion in this country. According to Pew Forum, 78 percent of Americans are considered Christian. Under that umbrella is the 23 percent of the county that is Catholic, just under 5 percent are from other religions and that includes who are 1.7 percent Jewish, or less than 1 percent who are Muslim. And finally, 6 percent (ph) say that they have no affiliation whatsoever and that includes agnostics and atheists.
So, we are putting the questions to our Stream Team. Every day, we invite wonderfully opinionated people with different backgrounds and specialties to weigh in in our question of the day. And today, we are asking, would a non-Christian, agnostic, or atheist, ever be elected president of the United States?
So, on the team today is Father Alberto Cutie, author and presidential expert Nick Ragone and Pete Dominick, radio host with Sirius XM's "POTUS Channel."
And, Father, let me start with you. What do you think? What do you think? Is it possible that someone with no religious affiliation could be elected president? My question is, I actually think it may have happened in the past but was not publicly acknowledged. But go ahead.
REV. FATHER ALBERTO CUTIE, EPISCOPAL PRIEST: Of course, I hope so. I hope that we really do believe in the separation of church and state. Sometimes it's confusing because we say separation of church and state and it should really be separation of religion and state.
We have plenty of religion in public life. We have chaplains in the Supreme Court, chaplains in the Congress, paid with our tax dollars, by the way.
And I think it's interesting how many people go back and forth with prayer in schools, whether people should talk about God in schools. But the fact is, God is here, religion is here. America is a religious nation and every time that there is any type of presidential debate, any type of presidential election, the person's faith becomes very, very important.
And in the same way, I wish that people would be able to be open to somebody who decides, by the way, religion is not part of my life. That's part of being a democracy.
SAVIDGE: Nick, what do you think? Is it possible somebody either an atheist or, say, someone with a Muslim background -- could they be elected president in this country?
NICK RAGONE, AUTHOR AND PRESIDENTIAL EXPERT: Well, I think you made an interesting point at the top can, which is, we've probably had either ago agnostics or deist as president already. I mean, Thomas Jefferson, being the most famous case.
SAVIDGE: Right.
RAGONE: A lot of people thought he was an atheist. He was more of a deist, which is believed in a god but he didn't believe in supernatural revelation.
Abe Lincoln as well, he -- for much of his life, he had trouble -- he said in letters to friends that he had trouble believing in something higher. Towards the end of his life, he started to change a little bit.
There have been other presidents that haven't attended church. William Howard Taft is one.
So, I think we -- you know, we've had presidents in the past that haven't been overt about their religiosity. I think to answer the question, though, are we going to see a nonreligious person in office -- I think it's something we may build towards, but clearly, this country is a religious country, more so than the European countries. And so, I'm not sure that's going to happen anytime soon.
SAVIDGE: But even -- we were saying, though, not just a non- religious believer, but it could be someone who is non-Christian.
And so, Pete, what do you think about the prospect of that happening in the United States today, in our society?
PETE DOMINICK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, obviously, JFK, Marty, was Catholic. No one believed that he could be elected at that time.
SAVIDGE: Right.
DOMINICK: And he goes down as one of our greatest presidents. But you just asked, could we have a Muslim president?
Marty, are you crazy? They're going crazy about Muslims in this country. Yesterday, a guy in Florida somebody got stabbed simply because he said he was Muslim. People in New York can't build a mosque.
So, I don't think we're anywhere near Muslim president, which I think is sad. I prefer like myself, who started Catholic then went militant atheist. And now, I believe in everything I saw in "Avatar," intrepid (ph) net connectedness. If we had a president who could connect tails with the American people and we could all connect that way, I'd like to see that.
But I think it's possible. I think there has been as you guys all said in the past probably and I think maybe in the future. But right now, we somehow determine our morality and our moral values based on religion, which I think is a sad state of affairs. Some of the most moral people I know are also the most anti-organized religious people.
And I'll just say, I think God -- God is love. That's what I tell my little girls.
SAVIDGE: Father, what do you think? I mean, the prospect here is that apparently, we could happily -- I won't say happily -- it's possible we could accept someone who doesn't believe in God, but we will not accept somebody who's a Muslim? Is that what I'm hearing? That's what Pete seems to be implying.
CUTIE: Unfortunately, we're living in a stage right now where Muslims are always looked at in a bad light by a great percentage of North America. And I think it has a lot to do, obviously with the 9/11 tragedies. There are still people who believe that all Muslims or people associated to the Muslim world are somehow responsible for the terrorism going on.
I think it's just a sad ignorance. And in our country, that's another thing that we should talk about. There's a lot of religious ignorance. There's a lot of religious illiteracy like Professor (INAUDIBLE) says. And I think it's sad we just don't talk about religious issues with any depth.
SAVIDGE: Well, normally, Nick, we aren't supposed to talk about religion. I mean, it was politics and religion, we're breaking both taboos right here, that you're not supposed to talk about. But, I mean, is it time for America to have a dialogue like this?
RAGONE: Well, we've been having it. Let's give our country a little credit. Over the last two years, we've been having more of a dialogue about religion. I mean, Mitt Romney ran in 2008. His religion came up.
SAVIDGE: Right.
RAGONE: And I think with President Obama, I think 10 percent or 15 percent of the country seems to think he's Muslim, even though he's not. And it has been an issue.
I disagree, though. I think this country would have a Muslim president. I'd like to think we're beyond that, even though, you know, there's been obviously a lot of tension.
SAVIDGE: Well, there's a difference between what we would like to see --
(CROSSTALK)
SAVIDGE: Go ahead, Pete.
DOMINICK: I'm sorry to interject. I mean, I just fundamentally disagree. I wish Nick was right. You know, frankly, I wish religion never came up in these issues.
But, you know, it's -- if I bring it up on my political radio show, religion, I could spend a whole three-hour show. I like to do three hours a day on religion somebody. I think it's fascinating and I think we should have that conversation.
But unfortunately, we have huge media outlets controlling people's minds by injecting fear into their minds all the time about Muslims, Arabs, anybody in between black and white and sometimes black. I mean, this one Muslim congressman, Congressman Ellison, and he takes all kinds of grief. And that's sad.
SAVIDGE: Nick, I'm going to let you have pretty much the last say because I think we're running out of time. What do you see happening in the future in this dialogue?
RAGONE: Well, I think we'll have more of it, which is a good thing, by the way. I think it's a good thing that we're talking about it. And I -- the point I was going to make is I think atheist is different. Will we have an atheist president? I don't know that we'll have an atheist president anytime soon. People take comfort in a fact that their president believes in a higher authority.
But I do think we're ready to have presidents of different religious denominations. At least I hope so.
SAVIDGE: Father, we got a little bit more time. Do you agree that that an atheist is very unlikely, because we all mostly do feel a certain faith in some way?
CUTIE: There's no doubt this is a religious nation. That's what the statistics basically confirm.
What I would like to see is that we all open our minds more to everybody's belief system. That some people do believe. And some people will not believe. You can't impose faith or you can't use faith for political motivations.
That's why I really disagree with putting religion into every political debate of every presidential election in this country. At least in the last several ones, faith has been a big thing, not just with President Obama, with, you know, how much do you believe in Jesus when you do believe in him? I think that's ridiculous. It shouldn't make someone a better president.
SAVIDGE: You're right and we got a thumbs -up there from Pete I saw.
DOMINICK: Yes, we got to stop -- we got to stop trying to out- Jesus each other and love each other for our differences.
SAVIDGE: All right. We got to leave it right there. But, Pete Dominick who has been talking to us, Nick Ragone and also, of course, Father Alberto Cutie -- thank you all three for joining us on what was a very good conversation. Much appreciated.
Time now for a one-minute political update. Senior political editor Mark Preston joins me now from Washington.
And, Mark, what you got?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Hey, Marty, good afternoon.
Yes, you know, it seems to be -- there seems to be a little bit of a laying out of policy proposals and political proposals in the op- ed pages. Yesterday in "The New York times," Jacob Lew who is the director of the Office of Management and Budget at the White House, said that there are going to be cuts made in the budget.
Now, President Obama's budget willing hit Capitol Hill next week. Here are a couple of things we should expect to see: $125 million for the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative will be cut, $650 million for housing, sewers, streets and economic development will be cut.
Now, I'm sure we're going to have some folks who are upset about that, Martin, as well as the additional cuts, which will be laid out again next week when President Obama puts his budget on Capitol Hill.
In "The Wall Street Journal" today, we have Governor Mitch Daniels of Indiana. He is laying out his criticism for the health care bill. He said that the health care law that was put into place is a massive mistake and could decimate state budgets. He said that for state governments the bill presents huge new costs.
Now, Daniels goes on and lays out what he thinks should happen for the state to implement. I'll let our viewers go to CNNPolitics.com to see what he's talking about. And let's keep in mind, Mitch Daniels is thinking about running for president in 2012 -- Martin.
SAVIDGE: That's a lot to leave us with. Mark Preston, thanks very much. Appreciate the update.
Well, we've been asking you to vote for your favorite Super Bowl ad, that is, from last night. Head to our blog CNN.com/Ali to vote right now. We'll bring you the results, next.
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